ASTROLOGERS ARE FAKE

October 27, 2008

Avtar,

1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN LEO, LR CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. PROVE THT THEIR RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.

2) I HAVE EMORE THAN 1000 RIGHT PREDICTIONS IN THE JYOTISH FORUMS IN MY LAST 2 YEARS STAY ON THESE FORUMS. PROVE THAT THEY ARE WRONG. OR PROVE THAT THEY ARE RIGHT BUT USING WRONG DATA. OR ELSE PROVE THAT THEY ARE ALL FAKE IDS. I WILL GIVE YOU RS. I LAKH FOR EVERY PROOF YOU GIVE ME OF HAVING ANSWERED A FAKE ID.

3) PROVE THAT LL THE YESTERYEAR ASTROLOGERS WERE WRONG.

4) PROVE THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND ALL ELSE ARE WRONG.

5) PROVE THAT YOU ONLY KNOW ABOUT THE RIGHT FESTIVAL DATES, AND THE OTHERS DO NOT KNOW ABC OF ASTRONOMY.

6) PROVE THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY KNOWLEDGEABLE AND THE REST ARE IDIOTS.

7) PROVE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT IS VEDIC ASTROLOGY ACTUALLY.

BHASKAR.

October 28, 2008

Dear Sanatji

LET ME WISH YOU AND YOUR FAMILYA VERY HAPPY DIPAVALI .

I dont find anything wrong in Bhaskar's quetions.

Why slandering on astrology or anything whatsoever.?

An astrologer is supposed to be somewhat a more learned man.A learned man never slanders.

What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals on the appropriate time?

Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and its celebrated on Chathudasi,the previous day

of amavasya in south India.

Afterall whenever you celebrate you are going to put on some new clothes and eat (unwanted for some)

sweets and savouries and get indigestion.

Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal human's affairs.

Who bothers about it other than astrologers ?

Those astrologers also slandering between them?!?!

Where the problem starts...one slanders and many counter attack!

I apprecciate your intention of getting more into astrology.

But the very thought would be defeated by these kind of conversations,I suppose.

Kindly look into it if you feel I am right.

With kind Regards

tkp

On 10/28/08, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

Avtar,

1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN LEO, LR CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. PROVE THT THEIR RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.

2) I HAVE EMORE THAN 1000 RIGHT PREDICTIONS IN THE JYOTISH FORUMS IN MY LAST 2 YEARS STAY ON THESE FORUMS. PROVE THAT THEY ARE WRONG. OR PROVE THAT THEY ARE RIGHT BUT USING WRONG DATA. OR ELSE PROVE THAT THEY ARE ALL FAKE IDS. I WILL GIVE YOU RS. I LAKH FOR EVERY PROOF YOU GIVE ME OF HAVING ANSWERED A FAKE ID.

3) PROVE THAT LL THE YESTERYEAR ASTROLOGERS WERE WRONG.

4) PROVE THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND ALL ELSE ARE WRONG.

5) PROVE THAT YOU ONLY KNOW ABOUT THE RIGHT FESTIVAL DATES, AND THE OTHERS DO NOT KNOW ABC OF ASTRONOMY.

6) PROVE THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY KNOWLEDGEABLE AND THE REST ARE IDIOTS.

7) PROVE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT IS VEDIC ASTROLOGY ACTUALLY.

BHASKAR.

-- TKP Ghopal32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,

I Agraharam,SALEM-636 00193666 23444

October 28, 2008

Gopal ji and other respected memebrs .

I think you r mistaken by spurious title of this forum but the real fact is diffrnt .They r using all technics to conceal ,cheat ,decieve others into blving any indian predictiv system is wrong and baseless and recent erosion in all this areas learning become a boon in disguise for them to talk abt it as they r asking with general public whose knowldge in many of this fields in nothing and they r not explaining but asking their doubts purposefully designed to destroy and fill in doubts in general public .say u r a KP astrologer and ur knowldge and awareness abt nadi astrology may b of a lay man ,so easy for them to act knower of all streams .If they find strong reactions or oppositions even after neglecting then stops giving importance to their posts or starts censering methods or draconian methods already designed .

This elements are more aware of its worth and scope .Than innocent new comers who may get conned by their wording ,even i doubt their name's r also fake .or retaining it for the purpose of this mission they undertake .

even the calender they say is neither scientific nor useful .

In india there is diffrnt takes and myths for each festivals depending on location and geography and sub culture ,so how can he use it, i dont know than traditional way ,if he is using traditional way but according to his own fancy then what is use of his calender ??Wat credibility it has or why other socieities shud adopt his calender ??So all this claims dont hold water .Yes the real mission is to produce chaos in society .It can b achieved .

Muhurthas without predictiv value is as if u r mimicing some thing to b look a fool in frnt of others .then again these kind of proove me questions may pop up and what answer future generation has for it ??

As muhurtha means good and favrble time .

Also even he cannot make a calender in his way without compromising and neglecting real facts. for exmple how can he include 365.25 days in 12 months ?? if he is talking solar way ,if it is lunar way then it will b suitable for lunatics only .

also how he will calculate eclipses and phenomenon applaicble for even religious purpose ??I expect proof in frnt of experts than big mouthing .means has to proove without modern ephimeris in frnt of experts by working out all those phenomenon for 2 decades ,and no computer too .

think logicaly ,think scientificaly but i will not say think diffrntly ,but i will say use ur brain folks .

regrds ASH

, "TKP Ghopal" <astrogopalji wrote:>> Dear Sanatji> *LET ME WISH YOU AND YOUR FAMILYA VERY HAPPY DIPAVALI* .> I dont find anything wrong in Bhaskar's quetions.> Why slandering on astrology or anything whatsoever.?> An astrologer is supposed to be somewhat a more learned man.A learned man> never slanders.> > What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals on the appropriate> time?> Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and its celebrated on> Chathudasi,the previous day> of amavasya in south India.> > Afterall whenever you celebrate you are going to put on some new clothes and> eat (unwanted for some)> sweets and savouries and get indigestion.> > Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal human's affairs.> Who bothers about it other than astrologers ?> Those astrologers also slandering between them?!?!> Where the problem starts...one slanders and many counter attack!> > I apprecciate your intention of getting more into astrology.> But the very thought would be defeated by these kind of conversations,I> suppose.> Kindly look into it if you feel I am right.> > With kind Regards> tkp> > > On 10/28/08, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish wrote:> >> > *Avtar,*> >> > *1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN LEO, LR> > CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. PROVE THT THEIR> > RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.*> >> > *2) I HAVE EMORE THAN 1000 RIGHT PREDICTIONS IN THE JYOTISH FORUMS IN MY> > LAST 2 YEARS STAY ON THESE FORUMS. PROVE THAT THEY ARE WRONG. OR PROVE THAT> > THEY ARE RIGHT BUT USING WRONG DATA. OR ELSE PROVE THAT THEY ARE ALL FAKE> > IDS. I WILL GIVE YOU RS. I LAKH FOR EVERY PROOF YOU GIVE ME OF HAVING> > ANSWERED A FAKE ID. *> >> > *3) PROVE THAT LL THE YESTERYEAR ASTROLOGERS WERE WRONG.*> >> > *4) PROVE THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND ALL ELSE ARE WRONG.*> >> > *5) PROVE THAT YOU ONLY KNOW ABOUT THE RIGHT FESTIVAL DATES, AND THE> > OTHERS DO NOT KNOW ABC OF ASTRONOMY.*> >> > *6) PROVE THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY KNOWLEDGEABLE AND THE REST ARE IDIOTS.*> >> > *7) PROVE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT IS VEDIC ASTROLOGY ACTUALLY.*> >> > *BHASKAR. *> >> > > >> > > > -- > TKP Ghopal> 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,> I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001> 93666 23444>

October 29, 2008

BURDEN

OF PROOF

You cannot claim that

" miracles exist unless someone proves that they do not exist. "

You cannot claim that

" souls exist unless someone proves that they do not exist. "

You cannot claim that

" angels exist unless someone proves that they do not exist. "

You cannot claim that

" deities exist unless someone proves that they do not exist. "

The burden of proof is always on the claim that X

exists rather than on the claim that X does not exist. It is a fallacy to claim that X exists unless you

prove that there is no X. What is improper is for a person to claim that " X exists " and when asked to prove it the person who made the claim uses as a defense of " X exists " the claim next claim that no one has proven that X does not exist.

If a person claims that X exists and is real then the burden is on that person to supply some support for that claim, some evidence or proof that others can and should examine before accepting it.

It is incorrect to think that X exists and is real until someone can prove that there is no X.

It is also wrong to think that just because you can not prove that X exists that does not mean that X does not exist and therefore X does exist.

SHIFTING THE BURDEN OF PROOF

The burden of proof is always on the person making an

assertion or proposition. Shifting

the burden of proof, a special case of argumentum ad ignorantium, is the

fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person who denies or

questions the assertion being made. The

source of the fallacy is the assumption that something is true unless

proven otherwise. Burden of Proof

From X, which is the assertion, is not yet

disproved. Therefore, X.

This is a Fallacy

X is unproven.

Examples:

(1)Of course Astrology is true. Has anyone ever proven

otherwise?

(2)Of course pink elephants inhabit Mars. We don't

see them because they blend in. Can you prove otherwise?

(3)Of

course Santa Claus exists. No one has ever proved, to my knowledge, that

Santa Claus does not exist. And if one were to fly to the North Pole and

say: Well, look, there's no toy factory there. A believer could argue:

Well, Santa Claus knew you were coming and moved his operations to the

South Pole. So you fly down to the South Pole. No Santa Claus factory, toy

factory there. So the believer would say: Oh, he moved it back up to the

North Pole.

(4) Of course sky fairies

exist. Has anyone ever proven otherwise?

(5) Of course ghosts

exist. Has anyone ever proven otherwise?

(6) Of course yellow

polka dotted aliens exist. Has anyone ever proven otherwise?

(7) Of course X

exist. Has anyone ever proven otherwise? Source: http://tinyurl.com/philosophy-of-religionIf fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.

--Anatole FranceOn Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:20 AM, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

Avtar,

1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN LEO, LR CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. PROVE THT THEIR RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.

2) I HAVE EMORE THAN 1000 RIGHT PREDICTIONS IN THE JYOTISH FORUMS IN MY LAST 2 YEARS STAY ON THESE FORUMS. PROVE THAT THEY ARE WRONG. OR PROVE THAT THEY ARE RIGHT BUT USING WRONG DATA. OR ELSE PROVE THAT THEY ARE ALL FAKE IDS. I WILL GIVE YOU RS. I LAKH FOR EVERY PROOF YOU GIVE ME OF HAVING ANSWERED A FAKE ID.

3) PROVE THAT LL THE YESTERYEAR ASTROLOGERS WERE WRONG.

4) PROVE THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND ALL ELSE ARE WRONG.

5) PROVE THAT YOU ONLY KNOW ABOUT THE RIGHT FESTIVAL DATES, AND THE OTHERS DO NOT KNOW ABC OF ASTRONOMY.

6) PROVE THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY KNOWLEDGEABLE AND THE REST ARE IDIOTS.

7) PROVE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT IS VEDIC ASTROLOGY ACTUALLY.

BHASKAR.

October 29, 2008

Dear Ghopal Ji and members,

Namaskar,

HAPPY DIWALI TO YOU AND TO YOUR FAMILY.

Thanks for your email.

I am starting from your last line >>>>> Kindly look into it if you

feel I am right.

<<<<<<<<. Why do you think that you may be wrong. I appreciate every

thought as I have mentioned at times that I am not running this forum

for supporting me but I am running this forum for analyzing

astrological principles. So every thought though it may be against my

view but I always take it a step to go further in deep to find the

truth. But what I can do if astrologer are running here and there or

observing silence or diverting the main point to some unwarranted

direction. So keep it up. Because every question is a gateway of

knowledge. I am always with knowledge (truth) and never support my

mindset. So personally I may be wrong but knowledge (truth) can not

be wrong.

>>>>>>I dont find anything wrong in Bhaskar's quetions.<<<<<

Sh Bhaskar ji has since left the forum hence I am not answering on

any question but if you pinpoint any question as a question from your

side then I will certainly look into it because in that case you may

be there to support your stand.

>>>>> Why slandering on astrology or anything whatsoever.?<<<<<<

I am not analyzing on any point except astrology so there is no

question of `whatsoever'. So far astrology (predictive) is concerned

I am not slandering it but I am analyzing principles. And analyzing

any concept is not slandering. But main problem with the astrologers

is that they think that analyzing astrology means defamation of him.

But it is definitely not like that. Knowledge is different and

mindset is different. I am analyzing knowledge and not mindset. I

have no concern with mindset of any one either those who are in

favour or who are against it. I have already mention in my earlier

msg in the forum that both must have logic in their support instead

of supporting mindset.

I am again quoting the example mentioned on 25th ----

For example. If I am afraid of snakes then it is my mind set and I

will never change it despite I know that only 4 type of snakes are

poisonous even then I will not allow any other snake in my house.

Why, because mindset and knowledge (truth) are always pole apart. In

the forum we are discussing truth and not on the mindset of group of

astrologers or believer. Hence it is academic and not personal. Thus

it is for every member to decide himself as to how much he can modify

his mind set towards truth.

Thus even after knowing the truth I will continue to follow my

mindset. Likewise if any is following his mindset; I have no

objection. But when anyone says that his mindset is governed by

knowledge then I have to analyze the position. In this forum we are

analyzing the science of astrology. Because astrologers claim that it

is science and vedic. I have full regard to anyone's knowledge but

not for mindset. I have compiled their views in various SOA……… files

so that new generation may decide themselves as to where they want to

go. But they must be aware with the factual position that only 4 type

of snakes are poisonous and they do not drink milk. At this point my

job is over. Now they have to decide as to whether they still want to

offer milk to snake or not. I hope my position may now be clear to

you and to members.

>>>>>> An astrologer is supposed to be somewhat a more learned man.A

learned man never slanders.<<<<<<< NO. Astrologers are learned in the

tactics for pushing their mindset over a person who is already in

trouble. Though they are not aware that astrological principles are

bogus. Hence it is not their fault. Fault is, that they do not want

to know the root of predictive astrology in the false coverup of

religion, faith and business etc. And again analysis of a principle

is not sladering. Hence analysis of any scientific or astrological

principle by any learned scientist or astrologer is not slandering. I

hope now you may be convinced with my stand.

>>>>>> What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals on the

appropriate

time? Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and its

celebrated on Chathudasi,the previous day of amavasya in south

India.<<<<<

So far point of festival is concerned, I will like to support Sh AKK

that these festivals have been shifted due to the wrong linking with

sign and affect of ayanansh. Logically, historically, astronomically

he is right. He has given lot of information in this regard. Hence I

do not want to intervene further, till some one has some specific

point.

>>>>>Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal human's

affairs.

Who bothers about it other than astrologers ?<<<<<< Yes, you may be

right, but now you will find that they are interfering in every

aspect of life. And in present, situation, when every one is facing

lot of problems due to competition, less self confidence, less

containment, less patience, less inquisitiveness and so on and when

new generation face any problem they become easy prey for these

astrologers. Thus though they are 1% but they are spoiling whole life

of a person who become paralytic due to 1% affect of bacteria of

polio. They are earning so they are spending in publicity and

catching more and more innocent persons, who do not know that their

problem has nothing to do with the planets.

>>>>>>I apprecciate your intention of getting more into astrology.

But the very thought would be defeated by these kind of

conversations, I suppose. <<<<<

Yes, you are right but when we interact with many persons with

different mindset then it is natural. Such thing may not happen if I

restrict the membership and screen every msg before posting it to the

forum. But then very purpose of analyzing a principle with different

argument is defeated. Hence I will continue like this and restrict

the members within the framework. I can not kill the purpose of

informing the hollow principles of predictive astrology either in

forum or through my books for fear of some baseless diversion. I am

very clear as to how these principles were formulated and what is the

aim of the astrologers. Because this forum is not for promoting my

views (which is already going on through books) but for finding out

the different stands being taken by these astrologers in support of

astrology.

I hope I have looked in to your points.

Thanks for sharing your views. If you want to continue our discussion

in a systematic way then pick up any point from various points and we

will move further slowly, patiently, logically. And always remember

that my argument and my stand are only academic and it may never be

taken ass personal hence you can take advise from your friends of

other forums too or pass on my msg for their opinion. As I have

already told that analysis is for knowledge and not for changing

mindset. If someone has sufficient knowledge then he himself find the

right way.

Thanks,

Yours truly,

Sanat

, " TKP Ghopal "

<astrogopalji wrote:

>

> Dear Sanatji

> *LET ME WISH YOU AND YOUR FAMILYA VERY HAPPY DIPAVALI* .

> I dont find anything wrong in Bhaskar's quetions.

> Why slandering on astrology or anything whatsoever.?

> An astrologer is supposed to be somewhat a more learned man.A

learned man

> never slanders.

>

> What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals on the

appropriate

> time?

> Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and its

celebrated on

> Chathudasi,the previous day

> of amavasya in south India.

>

> Afterall whenever you celebrate you are going to put on some new

clothes and

> eat (unwanted for some)

> sweets and savouries and get indigestion.

>

> Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal human's affairs.

> Who bothers about it other than astrologers ?

> Those astrologers also slandering between them?!?!

> Where the problem starts...one slanders and many counter attack!

>

> I apprecciate your intention of getting more into astrology.

> But the very thought would be defeated by these kind of

conversations,I

> suppose.

> Kindly look into it if you feel I am right.

>

> With kind Regards

> tkp

>

> On 10/28/08, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

> >

> > *Avtar,*

> >

> > *1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN LEO, LR

> > CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. PROVE

THT THEIR

> > RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.*

> >

> > *2) I HAVE EMORE THAN 1000 RIGHT PREDICTIONS IN THE JYOTISH

FORUMS IN MY

> > LAST 2 YEARS STAY ON THESE FORUMS. PROVE THAT THEY ARE WRONG. OR

PROVE THAT

> > THEY ARE RIGHT BUT USING WRONG DATA. OR ELSE PROVE THAT THEY ARE

ALL FAKE

> > IDS. I WILL GIVE YOU RS. I LAKH FOR EVERY PROOF YOU GIVE ME OF

HAVING

> > ANSWERED A FAKE ID. *

> >

> > *3) PROVE THAT LL THE YESTERYEAR ASTROLOGERS WERE WRONG.*

> >

> > *4) PROVE THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND ALL ELSE ARE WRONG.*

> >

> > *5) PROVE THAT YOU ONLY KNOW ABOUT THE RIGHT FESTIVAL DATES, AND

THE

> > OTHERS DO NOT KNOW ABC OF ASTRONOMY.*

> >

> > *6) PROVE THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY KNOWLEDGEABLE AND THE REST ARE

IDIOTS.*

> >

> > *7) PROVE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT IS VEDIC ASTROLOGY ACTUALLY.*

> >

> > *BHASKAR. *

> >

>

> --

> TKP Ghopal

> 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,

> I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001

> 93666 23444

>

November 3, 2008

Shri T K P Ghopalji,

Namaskar!

In an off-line communication to the Moderator of this forum, I had

said specifically that it is immaterial as to who asks what questions

so long as they are related to predictive gimmicks known as astrology.

But what is material is as to whether those questions are asked as an

exchange of ideas/knowledge or just to use such filthy language that

the " respondent " finds it disgusting to reply such posts.

For example, let us take the first question of the post of Shri Bhaskar

<*1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN LEO, LR

CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. PROVE THT

THEIR RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.*>

In fact, this question is applicable to you more than to anybody else

since you are using KP system which is just a hotch-potch of so many

systems! Obviously, you had become disgusted with all the systems of

BV Raman, BABAJI etc. etc. that you had to switch over to KP---a

system not more than a century old in any case!

You have said further

<What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals on the

appropriate time?>

This question deserves a " Nobel prize " ! One thing is, however, clear

from the same that at least you have also come to realize that it is

only because of the fraud called Vedic astrology that we are

celebrating all our festivals, including Divali, on wrong days! And

you want that instead of banishing anti-Vedic " Vedic astrology " we

must stop celebrating our festivals on correct days and follow the

ditates of Lahiris and Lahirwalas!

AND THAT IS WHY I SAY THAT OUR BUDHI HAS GOT ENVELOPED BY TAMOGUNA

COMPLETELY---SINCE YOU ARE PREPARED TO GO TO ANY LENGTHS TO DEFEND

" VEIDIC ASTROLOGY " EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO " GIVE TILANJALI " TO YOUR DHARMA!

My counter question is why celebrate any festivals at all! Is it only

because then you cannot exhibit to the whole world the non-existent

" Vedic astrology " ?

You have also said

<Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and its

celebrated on Chathudasi,the previous day>

I do not know what criteria you are talking about! Pl. quote the

exact source of your information--full references.

You have also said

< Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal human's affairs.

Who bothers about it other than astrologers ?>

It appears you have not at all perused my reply to your post via my

mail No.423 of September 12. I am quoting a part of the same for

ready reference and that should answer your question as to why I am

dead against predictive gimmicks in the name of " Vedic astrology "

Here are the relevant paragraphs

Quote

< Though your language and derivations are pretty good I dont

understand why on the name of heaven you are throwing mud on

astrology.>

Perhaps you have observed by now that I am silent about the various

other types of predictive gimmicks like Tarot, Palmistry,

physiognomy etc. etc. That does not mean that I accept all of them

as science! No. Absolutely not! However, none of those " methods "

lays a claim to have emanated from the Vedas or any other Hindu

shastras! For the same reason, I am just silent about KP system---

it is a hotch-potch of something of the sayana (Placidus House

systdem) plus something of nirayana (Planets and rashis) plus some

numerology (numbers from 1 to 254) and what not! It is immaterial

to me whether it is a science or an art or a fraud so long as it

does not claim to be an " offshoot " of the Vedas or some other Hindu

scripture!

Thus, whatever I have said against astrology is on the basis of the

Vedas, Smritis, Vedanga Jyotisha etc. etc. This is evident from my

various posts. None of our shastras has advised us to consult

jyotishis! On the other hand, Yudishthira was advised by Bhishma

Pitamaha to treat a nakshatra-soochi brahmana as a chandala! Why?

Because it is neither a science nor an art but just a way of making

a fool of a gullible person! Above all, it has no basis in any of

our shastras!

The most damaging result of our fatal infatuation with " Vedic

astrology " has been that we are celebrating all our festivals and

muhurtas on wrong days! Hence it is the duty of every real Hindu to

be as scornful for this fraud known as " Vedic astrology " as is

humanly possible and to follow the instructions of Bhishma Pitamaha!

As to how we are celebrating our festivals on wrong days will be

clear from the paper " 08-09.pdf " being uploaded in the files section! "

Unquote.

Dhanyavad.

AKK

, " TKP Ghopal "

<astrogopalji wrote:

>

> Dear Sanatji

> *LET ME WISH YOU AND YOUR FAMILYA VERY HAPPY DIPAVALI* .

> I dont find anything wrong in Bhaskar's quetions.

> Why slandering on astrology or anything whatsoever.?

> An astrologer is supposed to be somewhat a more learned man.A

learned man

> never slanders.

>

> What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals on the appropriate

> time?

> Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and its

celebrated on

> Chathudasi,the previous day

> of amavasya in south India.

>

> Afterall whenever you celebrate you are going to put on some new

clothes and

> eat (unwanted for some)

> sweets and savouries and get indigestion.

>

> Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal human's affairs.

> Who bothers about it other than astrologers ?

> Those astrologers also slandering between them?!?!

> Where the problem starts...one slanders and many counter attack!

>

> I apprecciate your intention of getting more into astrology.

> But the very thought would be defeated by these kind of conversations,I

> suppose.

> Kindly look into it if you feel I am right.

>

> With kind Regards

> tkp

>

> On 10/28/08, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

> >

> > *Avtar,*

> >

> > *1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN LEO, LR

> > CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. PROVE THT

THEIR

> > RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.*

> >

> > *2) I HAVE EMORE THAN 1000 RIGHT PREDICTIONS IN THE JYOTISH FORUMS

IN MY

> > LAST 2 YEARS STAY ON THESE FORUMS. PROVE THAT THEY ARE WRONG. OR

PROVE THAT

> > THEY ARE RIGHT BUT USING WRONG DATA. OR ELSE PROVE THAT THEY ARE

ALL FAKE

> > IDS. I WILL GIVE YOU RS. I LAKH FOR EVERY PROOF YOU GIVE ME OF HAVING

> > ANSWERED A FAKE ID. *

> >

> > *3) PROVE THAT LL THE YESTERYEAR ASTROLOGERS WERE WRONG.*

> >

> > *4) PROVE THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND ALL ELSE ARE WRONG.*

> >

> > *5) PROVE THAT YOU ONLY KNOW ABOUT THE RIGHT FESTIVAL DATES, AND THE

> > OTHERS DO NOT KNOW ABC OF ASTRONOMY.*

> >

> > *6) PROVE THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY KNOWLEDGEABLE AND THE REST ARE

IDIOTS.*

> >

> > *7) PROVE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT IS VEDIC ASTROLOGY ACTUALLY.*

> >

> > *BHASKAR. *

> >

>

> --

> TKP Ghopal

> 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,

> I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001

> 93666 23444

>

November 5, 2008

Dear Mr.AKK JI

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR KIND MAIL TO ME.

I had gone thro many of your mails and came to know of your vast knowledge in the Veda.

I stand absolutely nothing infront of you as far as Veda and Vedic are concerned.

I assume you might be an elderly person too.( I am only 58)

One has to win his bread is more essential than celebrating festivals at right time and day.

I am still running to win my bread hence I cant debate with whether the Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day or a day before that.If you come to know that on Diwali day in a small village of around 1200 population nearly 1ton

of goat ,sheep and chiken were cut to use by people.

So celebration is eating and enjoying for some.They don't care it is on this day or that day.

You are having a very little knowledge about KP system,the so called 'hotch-potch'system.

If my friends come to know that you used these words they would charge you for using filthy language on KP.

I find it scientific because we can reason out for any prediction we give.

If you think that I am Vedic,I am very sorry AKKji,I am an outsider to vedas,totally.

You had been already mentioning in another mail too that number from 1 to 254....its not 254 but 249.

It is not a number picked up from nowhere ,there is a very strong thesis behind it.

Sh.Sanatji has a deep knowledge about KP.

Anyway leave me aside AKKji.

I am not interested to debate.Whenever I find time between clients I go thro few mails pateintly and observe what are you all doing.I gather one thing that you all have lot and lots time to be on internet.

Well I would propose you one thing here that you can join my KP classes and I am sure you will change your stance.That too not now only after 3 months,because I ve been invited by a Malysian to go to Malaysia to conduct KP classes for 3 months and I just received my onward and return E.tickets from him,leaving on 7th Nov.08.

Thank you

With great Regards for your experiance.

tkp ghopal

On 11/3/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved wrote:

Shri T K P Ghopalji,Namaskar!In an off-line communication to the Moderator of this forum, I hadsaid specifically that it is immaterial as to who asks what questions

so long as they are related to predictive gimmicks known as astrology.But what is material is as to whether those questions are asked as anexchange of ideas/knowledge or just to use such filthy language thatthe " respondent " finds it disgusting to reply such posts.

For example, let us take the first question of the post of Shri Bhaskar<*1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN LEO, LRCHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. PROVE THT

THEIR RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.*>In fact, this question is applicable to you more than to anybody elsesince you are using KP system which is just a hotch-potch of so manysystems! Obviously, you had become disgusted with all the systems of

BV Raman, BABAJI etc. etc. that you had to switch over to KP---asystem not more than a century old in any case!You have said further<What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals on the

appropriate time?>This question deserves a " Nobel prize " ! One thing is, however, clearfrom the same that at least you have also come to realize that it isonly because of the fraud called Vedic astrology that we are

celebrating all our festivals, including Divali, on wrong days! Andyou want that instead of banishing anti-Vedic " Vedic astrology " wemust stop celebrating our festivals on correct days and follow the

ditates of Lahiris and Lahirwalas!AND THAT IS WHY I SAY THAT OUR BUDHI HAS GOT ENVELOPED BY TAMOGUNACOMPLETELY---SINCE YOU ARE PREPARED TO GO TO ANY LENGTHS TO DEFEND " VEIDIC ASTROLOGY " EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO " GIVE TILANJALI " TO YOUR DHARMA!

My counter question is why celebrate any festivals at all! Is it onlybecause then you cannot exhibit to the whole world the non-existent " Vedic astrology " ?You have also said<Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and its

celebrated on Chathudasi,the previous day>I do not know what criteria you are talking about! Pl. quote theexact source of your information--full references.You have also said< Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal human's affairs.

Who bothers about it other than astrologers ?>It appears you have not at all perused my reply to your post via mymail No.423 of September 12. I am quoting a part of the same forready reference and that should answer your question as to why I am

dead against predictive gimmicks in the name of " Vedic astrology " Here are the relevant paragraphsQuote< Though your language and derivations are pretty good I dontunderstand why on the name of heaven you are throwing mud on

astrology.>Perhaps you have observed by now that I am silent about the variousother types of predictive gimmicks like Tarot, Palmistry,physiognomy etc. etc. That does not mean that I accept all of them

as science! No. Absolutely not! However, none of those " methods " lays a claim to have emanated from the Vedas or any other Hindushastras! For the same reason, I am just silent about KP system---it is a hotch-potch of something of the sayana (Placidus House

systdem) plus something of nirayana (Planets and rashis) plus somenumerology (numbers from 1 to 254) and what not! It is immaterialto me whether it is a science or an art or a fraud so long as itdoes not claim to be an " offshoot " of the Vedas or some other Hindu

scripture!Thus, whatever I have said against astrology is on the basis of theVedas, Smritis, Vedanga Jyotisha etc. etc. This is evident from myvarious posts. None of our shastras has advised us to consult

jyotishis! On the other hand, Yudishthira was advised by BhishmaPitamaha to treat a nakshatra-soochi brahmana as a chandala! Why?Because it is neither a science nor an art but just a way of makinga fool of a gullible person! Above all, it has no basis in any of

our shastras!The most damaging result of our fatal infatuation with " Vedicastrology " has been that we are celebrating all our festivals andmuhurtas on wrong days! Hence it is the duty of every real Hindu to

be as scornful for this fraud known as " Vedic astrology " as ishumanly possible and to follow the instructions of Bhishma Pitamaha!As to how we are celebrating our festivals on wrong days will beclear from the paper " 08-09.pdf " being uploaded in the files section! "

Unquote.Dhanyavad.AKK , " TKP Ghopal "

> Dear Sanatji> *LET ME WISH YOU AND YOUR FAMILYA VERY HAPPY DIPAVALI* .> I dont find anything wrong in Bhaskar's quetions.> Why slandering on astrology or anything whatsoever.?

> An astrologer is supposed to be somewhat a more learned man.Alearned man> never slanders.> > What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals on the appropriate> time?> Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and its

celebrated on> Chathudasi,the previous day> of amavasya in south India.> > Afterall whenever you celebrate you are going to put on some newclothes and> eat (unwanted for some)> sweets and savouries and get indigestion.

> > Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal human's affairs.> Who bothers about it other than astrologers ?> Those astrologers also slandering between them?!?!> Where the problem starts...one slanders and many counter attack!

> > I apprecciate your intention of getting more into astrology.> But the very thought would be defeated by these kind of conversations,I> suppose.> Kindly look into it if you feel I am right.

> > With kind Regards> tkp> > > On 10/28/08, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:> >> > *Avtar,*> >> > *1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN LEO, LR

> > CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. PROVE THTTHEIR> > RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.*> >> > *2) I HAVE EMORE THAN 1000 RIGHT PREDICTIONS IN THE JYOTISH FORUMS

IN MY> > LAST 2 YEARS STAY ON THESE FORUMS. PROVE THAT THEY ARE WRONG. ORPROVE THAT> > THEY ARE RIGHT BUT USING WRONG DATA. OR ELSE PROVE THAT THEY AREALL FAKE> > IDS. I WILL GIVE YOU RS. I LAKH FOR EVERY PROOF YOU GIVE ME OF HAVING

> > ANSWERED A FAKE ID. *> >> > *3) PROVE THAT LL THE YESTERYEAR ASTROLOGERS WERE WRONG.*> >> > *4) PROVE THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND ALL ELSE ARE WRONG.*> >> > *5) PROVE THAT YOU ONLY KNOW ABOUT THE RIGHT FESTIVAL DATES, AND THE

> > OTHERS DO NOT KNOW ABC OF ASTRONOMY.*> >> > *6) PROVE THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY KNOWLEDGEABLE AND THE REST AREIDIOTS.*> >> > *7) PROVE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT IS VEDIC ASTROLOGY ACTUALLY.*

> >> > *BHASKAR. *> >> > > >> > > > -- > TKP Ghopal> 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,> I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001

> 93666 23444>

-- TKP Ghopal32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,I Agraharam,SALEM-636 00193666 23444

November 5, 2008

Dear Ghopal Sir,

Iam very sorry for you Sir. Why you waste your precious time in answering to these members.

These peoples are devas and we are only ordinary people. Let us use our system in helping humanity in timing an event as many following other system do not do so.

How many know that Late Mr.B.V.Raman pleaded Late requested many times to settle in Bangalore and work along with him.

The astrology before Professor Krishnamurthi was an art but after Professor Krishnamurthi it is a Science. Arts gives stories but science gives only facts.

I think Iam also wasting my time now, in answering to this member.

Your time is valuable for KP followers Sir.

Regards,

Muthuram kumar.--- On Wed, 5/11/08, TKP Ghopal <astrogopalji wrote:

TKP Ghopal <astrogopaljiRe: Re: ASTROLOGERS ARE FAKE Date: Wednesday, 5 November, 2008, 3:23 PM

Dear Mr.AKK JI

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR KIND MAIL TO ME.

I had gone thro many of your mails and came to know of your vast knowledge in the Veda.

I stand absolutely nothing infront of you as far as Veda and Vedic are concerned.

I assume you might be an elderly person too.( I am only 58)

One has to win his bread is more essential than celebrating festivals at right time and day.

I am still running to win my bread hence I cant debate with whether the Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day or a day before that.If you come to know that on Diwali day in a small village of around 1200 population nearly 1ton

of goat ,sheep and chiken were cut to use by people.

So celebration is eating and enjoying for some.They don't care it is on this day or that day.

You are having a very little knowledge about KP system,the so called 'hotch-potch'system.

If my friends come to know that you used these words they would charge you for using filthy language on KP.

I find it scientific because we can reason out for any prediction we give.

If you think that I am Vedic,I am very sorry AKKji,I am an outsider to vedas,totally.

You had been already mentioning in another mail too that number from 1 to 254....its not 254 but 249.

It is not a number picked up from nowhere ,there is a very strong thesis behind it.

Sh.Sanatji has a deep knowledge about KP.

Anyway leave me aside AKKji.

I am not interested to debate.Whenever I find time between clients I go thro few mails pateintly and observe what are you all doing.I gather one thing that you all have lot and lots time to be on internet.

Well I would propose you one thing here that you can join my KP classes and I am sure you will change your stance.That too not now only after 3 months,because I ve been invited by a Malysian to go to Malaysia to conduct KP classes for 3 months and I just received my onward and return E.tickets from him,leaving on 7th Nov.08.

Thank you

With great Regards for your experiance.

tkp ghopal

On 11/3/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> wrote:

Shri T K P Ghopalji,Namaskar!In an off-line communication to the Moderator of this forum, I hadsaid specifically that it is immaterial as to who asks what questionsso long as they are related to predictive gimmicks known as astrology.But what is material is as to whether those questions are asked as anexchange of ideas/knowledge or just to use such filthy language thatthe "respondent" finds it disgusting to reply such posts.For example, let us take the first question of the post of Shri Bhaskar<*1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN LEO, LRCHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. PROVE THTTHEIR RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.*>In fact, this question is applicable to you more than to anybody elsesince you are using KP system which is

just a hotch-potch of so manysystems! Obviously, you had become disgusted with all the systems ofBV Raman, BABAJI etc. etc. that you had to switch over to KP---asystem not more than a century old in any case!You have said further<What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals on theappropriate time?>This question deserves a "Nobel prize"! One thing is, however, clearfrom the same that at least you have also come to realize that it isonly because of the fraud called Vedic astrology that we arecelebrating all our festivals, including Divali, on wrong days! Andyou want that instead of banishing anti-Vedic "Vedic astrology" wemust stop celebrating our festivals on correct days and follow theditates of Lahiris and Lahirwalas!AND THAT IS WHY I SAY THAT OUR BUDHI HAS GOT ENVELOPED BY TAMOGUNACOMPLETELY-- -SINCE YOU ARE PREPARED TO GO TO ANY LENGTHS TO

DEFEND"VEIDIC ASTROLOGY" EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO "GIVE TILANJALI" TO YOUR DHARMA! My counter question is why celebrate any festivals at all! Is it onlybecause then you cannot exhibit to the whole world the non-existent"Vedic astrology"?You have also said<Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and itscelebrated on Chathudasi,the previous day>I do not know what criteria you are talking about! Pl. quote theexact source of your information- -full references.You have also said< Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal human's affairs.Who bothers about it other than astrologers ?>It appears you have not at all perused my reply to your post via mymail No.423 of September 12. I am quoting a part of the same forready reference and that should answer your question as to why I amdead against predictive gimmicks in the

name of "Vedic astrology"Here are the relevant paragraphsQuote< Though your language and derivations are pretty good I dontunderstand why on the name of heaven you are throwing mud onastrology.>Perhaps you have observed by now that I am silent about the variousother types of predictive gimmicks like Tarot, Palmistry,physiognomy etc. etc. That does not mean that I accept all of themas science! No. Absolutely not! However, none of those "methods"lays a claim to have emanated from the Vedas or any other Hindushastras! For the same reason, I am just silent about KP system---it is a hotch-potch of something of the sayana (Placidus Housesystdem) plus something of nirayana (Planets and rashis) plus somenumerology (numbers from 1 to 254) and what not! It is immaterialto me whether it is a science or an art or a fraud so long as itdoes not claim to be an "offshoot" of the Vedas or some

other Hinduscripture!Thus, whatever I have said against astrology is on the basis of theVedas, Smritis, Vedanga Jyotisha etc. etc. This is evident from myvarious posts. None of our shastras has advised us to consultjyotishis! On the other hand, Yudishthira was advised by BhishmaPitamaha to treat a nakshatra-soochi brahmana as a chandala! Why?Because it is neither a science nor an art but just a way of makinga fool of a gullible person! Above all, it has no basis in any ofour shastras!The most damaging result of our fatal infatuation with "Vedicastrology" has been that we are celebrating all our festivals andmuhurtas on wrong days! Hence it is the duty of every real Hindu tobe as scornful for this fraud known as "Vedic astrology" as ishumanly possible and to follow the instructions of Bhishma Pitamaha!As to how we are celebrating our festivals on wrong days will beclear from the

paper "08-09.pdf" being uploaded in the files section!"Unquote.Dhanyavad.AKK, "TKP Ghopal"<astrogopalji@ ...> wrote:>

> Dear Sanatji> *LET ME WISH YOU AND YOUR FAMILYA VERY HAPPY DIPAVALI* .> I dont find anything wrong in Bhaskar's quetions.> Why slandering on astrology or anything whatsoever.?> An astrologer is supposed to be somewhat a more learned man.Alearned man> never slanders.> > What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals on the appropriate> time?> Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and itscelebrated on> Chathudasi,the previous day> of amavasya in south India.> > Afterall whenever you celebrate you are going to put on some newclothes and> eat (unwanted for some)> sweets and savouries and get indigestion.> > Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal human's affairs.> Who bothers about it other than astrologers ?> Those astrologers also

slandering between them?!?!> Where the problem starts...one slanders and many counter attack!> > I apprecciate your intention of getting more into astrology.> But the very thought would be defeated by these kind of conversations, I> suppose.> Kindly look into it if you feel I am right.> > With kind Regards> tkp> > > On 10/28/08, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:> >> > *Avtar,*> >> > *1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN LEO, LR> > CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. PROVE THTTHEIR> > RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.*> >> > *2) I HAVE EMORE THAN 1000 RIGHT PREDICTIONS IN THE JYOTISH FORUMSIN MY> > LAST 2 YEARS STAY ON THESE FORUMS. PROVE THAT THEY ARE WRONG. ORPROVE THAT> >

THEY ARE RIGHT BUT USING WRONG DATA. OR ELSE PROVE THAT THEY AREALL FAKE> > IDS. I WILL GIVE YOU RS. I LAKH FOR EVERY PROOF YOU GIVE ME OF HAVING> > ANSWERED A FAKE ID. *> >> > *3) PROVE THAT LL THE YESTERYEAR ASTROLOGERS WERE WRONG.*> >> > *4) PROVE THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND ALL ELSE ARE WRONG.*> >> > *5) PROVE THAT YOU ONLY KNOW ABOUT THE RIGHT FESTIVAL DATES, AND THE> > OTHERS DO NOT KNOW ABC OF ASTRONOMY.*> >> > *6) PROVE THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY KNOWLEDGEABLE AND THE REST AREIDIOTS.*> >> > *7) PROVE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT IS VEDIC ASTROLOGY ACTUALLY.*> >> > *BHASKAR. *> >> > > >> > > > -- > TKP Ghopal> 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,> I Agraharam,SALEM- 636 001> 93666

23444>

-- TKP Ghopal32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,I Agraharam,SALEM- 636 00193666 23444

Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab.

November 6, 2008

PLEASE STOP ALART--- On Wed, 5/11/08, TKP Ghopal <astrogopalji wrote:

TKP Ghopal <astrogopaljiRe: Re: ASTROLOGERS ARE FAKE Date: Wednesday, 5 November, 2008, 9:53 AM