Guest guest Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Attn:Mr.Sanat kumar jain I request you to kindly interven what AKK and Mahesh are slandering. We are only to go back to the past? When are we going to see what is going to happen in the future? Both are using prohibatary words. The action must be taken against them similarly and that only can be justifiable. I requested you to throw some light on Shakthi chakra and my mail didnt appear. Regards tkp On 10/21/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved wrote: Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?)Namaskar!<First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again may bmillions of them r there>For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions! If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis and Mangal and Shani etc. planets. Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern astronomy! <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??>There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in several forums including and HinduCalendar forum where Shri Sreenadh has " proved " (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking about! Some other gentlemen " proved " that He had Incarnated anywhere between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE!It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave alone astronomy! There are certain " combinations " in the so called horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage!Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to give the exact quotations! <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent devlpemnts in india.>Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was not a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to hoodwink India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge of statecraft than Hitler!Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it was Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas! So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed!Similarly, there are quite a few overseas " Rishis " these days who call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false knowledge of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading the so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call deliberately as " Vedic astrology " just to denigrate the Vedas! And people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets these overseas " Vamadevas " are peddling through several vedic- astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you!And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing out such harsh facts to you! Wake up, my dear " Maheswhar " (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep slumber of ignorance!Dhanyavad.AKK , " maheswara_varma " <maheswara_varma wrote:>> > > > dear kaul ji> > namaskar to u> > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name,> > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again may b> millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira also told> in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in zodiac ) not> billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just > introduction> > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full hidden> agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont blv in> correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud learn> frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is real or> fabricated .> > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach .> > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it is not> intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he said .Again> i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking questions to> others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov ur points> forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u dont> agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting for > last 20 days> > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i stress> here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know to the> grp and clear off in a decent manner ) > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis-> vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras from> any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha---> that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis!> Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated> horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and> Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.> Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the> Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the> Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- > existent rashis!> Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic astrology " > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas!> > ####> > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics> > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so without> rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b names> of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some recent > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b appreciated in> that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with help of> some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to find lost> dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think it is> worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose .> > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no time to> read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we shud b> informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas or what> ever it is .> > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name is> atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent> devlpemnts in india .> > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth ,what> happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were all gurus> or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and india> it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers and non> blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when reverence> is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree .Even i dont> think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material> purposes .> > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science it> appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the> zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal> divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically!> That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > attempted it till date!> > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem ,in> maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental> /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or even > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for economic> purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular purpose> > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually> Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal> twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific!> > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got astro frm> greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also yevana> means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says yevana are> hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of some> rishis like nagas or asuras .> > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months ( sun> dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ).> > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13 " 20 " ) )( it is not stars> like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3 " 20')and various amsa to> nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only in nadi> amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud depend> greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a zodiac ??is> it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call him fraud> and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks which even> they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav deleted that> stanza >> > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi,> howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more than> seventy per cent success in his/her predictions.> > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma is fate> of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right direction> ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems .> > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every field esp> in this kali era .> > > > > > As per their own> words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment!> > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is practical in> applying other than pure mathematics . > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission (chandrayaan> )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4> ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv tests > still going on to make sure of it .> > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a> branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy!> For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse> timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly,> eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also> correct to the nearest decimal second! > > ###> > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual reports> based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv )> > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are generaly> diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they trained> in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula and> learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 in > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also> availability of such gurus and gurukulas.> > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or> sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i dont> worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the 3 hrs or> 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say .> > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent accuracy " in> the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is> supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place earlier> of later by at least three hours and so on!> I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in> the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if> not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya > the mlechha!> > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u go and> presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of world> renounced astronomers and scientists . > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the> landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you> can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv astrologers> shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is diffrnt> branch all together after intitial some assossiations . > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive> gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. planets> affect every individual individually and that also through some > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or Manduka> or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30> Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my Rahu-> Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are> not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system or> Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another> both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences!> > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all indian > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones> > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even without a> zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying in vedas> )> > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being> practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to> exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means> about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves,> they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha> being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the> number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > beats all the others and so on!> > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than pumping> some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this .> > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date of> Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc.> and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days!> > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur calander which> is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or 7 > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur understanding> abt vedas which u never explained to us .> > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science /rockets etc r > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not mentioned in> vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never find we> were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u hav some> other arguemnts against it too )> > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your> larger than life ego?> > ###### [] > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be> taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic> nor scientific. > > ### Think whose logic is useless .> > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read books> or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i dont> need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is ur > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in vedic> astrology .> > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 times with> exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried too ,even u> all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in seeing> it .> > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont invite me > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me .> > > > regrds M varma .> > > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > <jyotirved@> wrote:> >> > Shri Maheswara Vermaji,> > Namaskar!> > <he posted diffrnt things even on futility of sri kaul's> > reserch and so called claims ,he also asked him to show his > > understanding of vedas .he even told he will explain everything later> > as it needs lot of time to explain all their questions>> >> > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas- vis-> > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras from> > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous> > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha- --> > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis!> > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic,> > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and> > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and> > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.> > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the> > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non-> > existent rashis!> > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic astrology " > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas!> >> > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science it> > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the> > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal> > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically!> > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > > attempted it till date! Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually> > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which> > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal > > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific!> >> > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi,> > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more than> > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. As per their own> > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment!> >> > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy!> > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses> > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly,> > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also> > correct to the nearest decimal second!> > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers> > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent accuracy " in> > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is> > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place earlier> > of later by at least three hours and so on!> > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in> > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if> > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya> > the mlechha!> >> > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the> > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments!> >> > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive> > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. planets> > affect every individual individually and that also through some> > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or Manduka> > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30> > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my Rahu-> > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are> > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system or> > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like> > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another> > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being> > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to> > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means> > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves,> > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha> > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the> > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > > beats all the others and so on!> >> > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and> > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date of > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc.> > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or> > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! > >> > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your> > larger than life ego?> > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be> > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic> > nor scientific.> > Dhanyavad.> > A K Kaul> >> >> >> > , " maheswara_varma " > > maheswara_varma@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > dear sanat ji and group .> > >> > > poor vijayaraghavan ,he thought this is a logical forum ,he> > mentioned > > > everything but the moderaters r not for seeing the truth> > deliberately> > > ,they r putting one science in shoes of other science .Or simply> > > brushing aside with statements it is common or fluke or accidental> > like> > > this (esp sri kaul ji ) .> > >> > >> > >> > > because the aim is diffrnt i also blv ,what ever points he raised is > > > true and valid but his lack of time ( when i contcted him he also> > told> > > me he cannot wait till end of the world ,as he told me they r simply> > > passing time ).he posted diffrnt things even on futility of sri > > kaul's> > > reserch and so called claims ,he also asked him to show his> > > understanding of vedas .he even told he will explain everything> > later as> > > it needs lot of time to explain all their questions ( as useless > > > countering questions will also strt which happened in many others> > case> > > ,as the main question is ,is astrology is usefull than is it is a> > > science or myth or wheter we got frm greek or US ) ,so he made it a> > > point to see collectively the results of all those rishi 's dictums> > (> > > all grp shud participate and he was not imposing any conditions> > other> > > than this ) ,so first see results and then let us go to > > basics .As it> > > is more easy for novice s who joined to know what is astrology than> > > going round the world with mutable/twistable answers .Then simply> > > asking questions to prolongate the discussions .But once results r> > known> > > then basics r easy to to exlain too .Then every one may not wait for> > > answers too .> > >> > >> > >> > > he waited for 20 days to get a positiv reply or a effort to see in> > > actual way .> > >> > > then strted getting voilent as any man blvs in quality time will> > do .> > >> > >> > >> > > even he dont use any bad languge other than words fool or fraud > > which i> > > think is true ,because when some one rejects all the worlds> > exprnces how> > > can we act cooly .Fist of all where was quality discussion (> > search of > > > truth ) frm the moderaters side than repeating some pseudo> > intellectual> > > points which is ready made too or twisting the points and giving> > answers> > > for the queries he raised , > > >> > >> > >> > > asking others to see or answer only in our way is not logic or> > > scientific if some one wants to see the truth ( for exmple swami> > > vivekanda and sri ramakrishna paramahamsa dailogues ) ,it is > > adamance> > > ,unscientific and i think we can call those ppl with having some> > secret> > > missions /agenda.> > >> > > now if some one wants why this days it has happend (i mean why they> > > faced this carpet bombing in this grp ) i will explain to u all> > in the> > > lite of astro .> > >> > > but write to me personaly .> > > > > >> > >> > > maheswara varma .> > >> > > ps --I wrote this as my opinion and further discussion on this i> > may or> > > may not participate depending on constructv approach raised by > > queriests> > > .> > >> > > also sri sanat ji -dont count on some one who posted a mail is a> > > support for u ,any intelligent persons can see it is a way to flash> > his> > > address and some future business ,pls ban all address or personal> > links> > > which is self promoting in future communications in grp,if u r> > serious > > > in ur approach ( again it is my suggestions only ) .> > >> > >> > > , " sanat2221 " > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Ghopal Ji and members,> > > > Namaskar,> > > > Yes, episode is over. Actually I do not want to ban any member,> > > > otherwise very purpose of discussion is defeated. But after all we> > > > have to maintain some discipline. We all are educated and there> > are> > > > many lady members, senior as well as junior members. What they > > will> > > > think about us? Hence we must have some etiquette while writing> > and> > > > must maintain a mutual regard.> > > >> > > > I have already mentioned in my welcome note that we may have > > > > difference, but it does not mean that we may behave like street> > dogs.> > > > I have always encouraged that every one may support his stand with> > > > strong logic. Since the beginning of the forum I am only > > discussing> > > > about various points, which is being raised or supported by> > > > astrologer, hence when I ask for further clarification on their> > point> > > > then they either left, or observe silence or use abusive > > language. I> > > > do not know what they want to prove with their blind faith> > supported> > > > by filthy language. Since the very beginning no astrologer has> > > > answered my basic question narrated in my blog " astrology a > > science> > > > or myth " . They used to divert the matter and even then they are> > not> > > > able to substantiate their own points.> > > >> > > > Actually it makes no difference as to how many persons are > > following> > > > predictive astrology or how many are against astrology. Main> > point is> > > > both must have their logic. I have never disclosed my stand,> > which is > > > > already in my book. I am simply asking astrologer so that they may> > > > substantiate as to how astrology is science or Vedic.> > > >> > > > Till then general public may be aware as to what procedure was > > > > adopted for formulating the principle till then every one may> > > > continue to follow his own way, which are quite opposite to each> > > > other. Like some one say traditional astrology is good some will> > say> > > > KP, some say western and some say Lal kitab and so on. Thus every> > one> > > > is behaving like blind persons who have been asked to describe > > > > elephant.> > > >> > > > General public thinks that it is science, it is vedic it is> > created> > > > by our sages. But neither predictive astrology is science nor it> > is> > > > vedic nor it is created by our sages (yes it was only developed by> > > > our sages). Even sign like Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio,> > > > Sagittarius etc. has no significance in any Indian religion, > > > > tradition, stories etc. So how these signs may be creation of our> > > > sages. We are actually degrading them with linking their names> > with> > > > some other religious concept. Whereas every sign has religious > > > > background of Greece. Likewise there is no mention of any> > principle> > > > in Ved nor they know about the solar system and so on.> > > >> > > > When we are analyzing then we must know as to whether our faith,> > is> > > > based on some truth or it is just a blind faith promoted by> > > > astrologer for their livelihood.> > > >> > > > I have many points to discuss. But I will continue my version > > after> > > > receiving some reaction of the members.> > > >> > > > I find that so many new members have joined the forum, and most of> > > > them are quite young. I welcome every new member in our forum. > > They> > > > have just entered in the struggle of life in the form of job,> > > > marriage, promotion, salary etc. In this age every one has dreams> > but> > > > without struggling capacity, like a kid who want to see every > > thing> > > > in trade-fair but he is not having sufficient skill to save him in> > > > the crowd and thus he become easy pray. Likewise new generation> > have > > > > dreams but not the self-confidence, ability to accept the> > challenges,> > > > hard work, patience and so on. Thus they become easy prey of> > > > astrologer. Who either infuse fear complex or some distant dreams> > > > along with some remedy circus. Thus their tender mind is polluted> > for> > > > life long and they continue to think that every planet is behind> > him > > > > and his only job to create problems. Thus he is in search of some> > > > remedy or some consolation from astrologer that your period will> > be> > > > good, and he looses his struggling capacity. > > > >> > > > My mission is very clear that every one must have courage to face> > odd> > > > situation, he must acquire knowledge, must improve his logic, must > > > > have scientific aptitude, ready to work hard, have patience,> > > > regularly try for his success, have some clear dream to achieve> > etc.> > > > Astrology is our heritage like a fort but we can not remain safe> > in> > > > fort in the era of missile. Likewise ancient knowledge is our> > > > heritage, we must have proud over it but we can neither go back to> > > > forest / hut nor we can survive with that knowledge. So I will > > like> > > > to request all young members that never fall in the trap of> > > > astrologer (this I am saying after +35 years of study on> > astrology),> > > > and I am also not going to earn any thing from this alert signal.> > No> > > > doubt astronomy is a good subject (which is Vedic too) hence try> > to> > > > learn about it but not predictive astrology for deciding important > > > > factors of life, because astrology is merely a form of magic or> > > > psychological game.> > > >> > > > I am inviting every young member to come forward and raise their> > > > question on astrology either inquisitive or learning or supportive> > > > etc….Always remember that every unanswered question is the> gateway> > > of > > > > knowledge and discussion is the best way to improve your logic> > hence> > > > never kill your inquisitiveness. So do not be a silent reader take> > > > active part in discussion. > > > >> > > > I will also like to know as to how many members will like to> > follow> > > > my advise, and what is the opinion of elder members, so that we> > may > > > > continue our interaction.> > > >> > > > Thanks,> > > >> > > > Sanat> > > >> > >> >> -- TKP Ghopal32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road, I Agraharam,SALEM-636 00193666 23444 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Shri T K P Ghopalji, Namaskar! <I request you to kindly interven what AKK and Mahesh are slandering> Would you kindly let me know the " slandering " that I have done and to whom and on what account? < We are only to go back to the past?> Because predictive gimmicks are being peddled as " Vedic astrology " and the Vedas are the earliest Indian scriptures available as on date!Thus the jyotishis themselves are " traveling back in time machine " . I have been requesting all the members, including you, to quote any mantra from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha or the Yajur Jyotisha or the Atharva-Jyotisha or even the Atharva-Veda Parishishta that talks of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis. As they are not present in any of the indigenous pre-Surya Sidhanta astronomical works, the earlier we stop calling such gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the better it will be for the entire Hindu community. Since there are no Rashis in the Vedas, obviously, they are non-Vedic and maybe even anti-Vedic! They have therefore been imported from somewhere else i.e. Grecho-Chaldean astrology! <When are we going to see what is going to happen in the future?> That is a million dollar question which you should have addressed to jyotishis instead of Shri Sanat Kumar Jain or me as it is the job of jyotishis to peep into the future! No Jyotishi has done that successfully till date! We have yet to see any " quotable quote " from any jyotishi, including you, that had talked of heavy floods or terrorist attacks or even Maharashtra versus the rest of India and so on! Similarly, elections for several assemblies are being held in November/December. No jyotishi has ventured as yet to predict the outcome of any state! Appears they are developing cold feet! <The action must be taken against them similarly and that only can be justifiable.> What action do you suggest should be taken against me and on what grounds? AKK PS To the best of my limited knowledge the actual Sanskrit word is " Gopal " -- synonym of Bhagwan Krishna as He was a " cow-herd " . Has some numerologist advised you to change it to " Ghopal " or is it just a " human error " ? AKK , " TKP Ghopal " <astrogopalji wrote: > > Attn:Mr.Sanat kumar jain > I request you to kindly interven what AKK and Mahesh are slandering. > We are only to go back to the past? > When are we going to see what is going to happen in the future? > Both are using prohibatary words. > The action must be taken against them similarly and that only can be > justifiable. > > I requested you to throw some light on Shakthi chakra and my mail didnt > appear. > Regards > tkp > > On 10/21/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved wrote: > > > > Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) > > Namaskar! > > <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > may bmillions of them r there> > > > > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions! > > > > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of > > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which > > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis and > > Mangal and Shani etc. planets. > > Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA > > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from > > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern > > astronomy! > > > > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??> > > > > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in > > several forums including and HinduCalendar > > forum where Shri Sreenadh has " proved " (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was > > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking > > about! Some other gentlemen " proved " that He had Incarnated anywhere > > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE! > > It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave alone > > astronomy! There are certain " combinations " in the so called > > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are > > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by > > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage! > > Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in > > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to > > give the exact quotations! > > > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name > > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > > devlpemnts in india.> > > > > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was not > > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to hoodwink > > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of > > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted > > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of > > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but > > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge of > > statecraft than Hitler! > > > > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from > > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now > > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most > > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they > > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of > > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it was > > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas! > > So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your > > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! > > > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas " Rishis " these days who > > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them > > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can > > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false knowledge > > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading the > > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call > > deliberately as " Vedic astrology " just to denigrate the Vedas! And > > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets > > these overseas " Vamadevas " are peddling through several vedic- > > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the > > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you! > > > > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing out > > such harsh facts to you! > > Wake up, my dear " Maheswhar " (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep > > slumber of ignorance! > > Dhanyavad. > > AKK > > > > --- In <%40>, > > " maheswara_varma " > > <maheswara_varma@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear kaul ji > > > > > > namaskar to u > > > > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name, > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > may b > > > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira also > > told > > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in zodiac ) > > not > > > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just > > > introduction > > > > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full hidden > > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont blv > > in > > > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud > > learn > > > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is real or > > > fabricated . > > > > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach . > > > > > > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when > > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it is > > not > > > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he > > said .Again > > > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > > questions to > > > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov ur > > points > > > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u dont > > > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting for > > > last 20 days > > > > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i > > stress > > > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know to > > the > > > grp and clear off in a decent manner ) > > > > > > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis- > > > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras from > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha--- > > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis! > > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and > > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and > > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the > > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- > > > existent rashis! > > > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic > > astrology " > > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > #### > > > > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv > > > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics > > > > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > without > > > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b > > names > > > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some recent > > > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b appreciated > > in > > > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with help > > of > > > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to find > > lost > > > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think it > > is > > > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . > > > > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no > > time to > > > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we > > shud b > > > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas or > > what > > > ever it is . > > > > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > > name is > > > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > > > devlpemnts in india . > > > > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth ,what > > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were all > > gurus > > > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and > > india > > > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers and > > non > > > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when > > reverence > > > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree .Even i > > dont > > > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material > > > purposes . > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science > > it > > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the > > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > > > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically! > > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > > > attempted it till date! > > > > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem ,in > > > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental > > > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or even > > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for economic > > > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular purpose > > > > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which > > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal > > > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got astro > > frm > > > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also yevana > > > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says > > yevana are > > > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of > > some > > > rishis like nagas or asuras . > > > > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months ( > > sun > > > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ). > > > > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13 " 20 " ) )( it is not > > stars > > > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3 " 20')and various amsa > > to > > > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only in > > nadi > > > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud > > depend > > > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a > > zodiac ??is > > > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call him > > fraud > > > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks which > > even > > > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav deleted > > that > > > stanza > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi, > > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more > > than > > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. > > > > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma is > > fate > > > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right > > direction > > > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . > > > > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every field > > esp > > > in this kali era . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own > > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment! > > > > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is practical > > in > > > applying other than pure mathematics . > > > > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > > (chandrayaan > > > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 > > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv tests > > > still going on to make sure of it . > > > > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a > > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses > > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, > > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also > > > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > > > > > ### > > > > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual > > reports > > > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv ) > > > > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are > > generaly > > > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they > > trained > > > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula and > > > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 in > > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also > > > availability of such gurus and gurukulas. > > > > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or > > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i > > dont > > > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the 3 > > hrs or > > > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > > > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers > > > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent accuracy " in > > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place > > earlier > > > of later by at least three hours and so on! > > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in > > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if > > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya > > > the mlechha! > > > > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u go > > and > > > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of > > world > > > renounced astronomers and scientists . > > > > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the > > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you > > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! > > > > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > > astrologers > > > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is diffrnt > > > branch all together after intitial some assossiations . > > > > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. > > planets > > > affect every individual individually and that also through some > > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or > > Manduka > > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30 > > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my > > Rahu- > > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are > > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system > > or > > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another > > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > > > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all > > indian > > > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > > > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even > > without a > > > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying in > > vedas > > > ) > > > > > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being > > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to > > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means > > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves, > > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha > > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the > > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > > > beats all the others and so on! > > > > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than > > pumping > > > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this . > > > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date > > of > > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc. > > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or > > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! > > > > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur calander > > which > > > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or 7 > > > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > > understanding > > > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > > > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science /rockets > > etc r > > > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > > mentioned in > > > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never find > > we > > > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u hav > > some > > > other arguemnts against it too ) > > > > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > > > larger than life ego? > > > > > > ###### [] > > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be > > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic > > > nor scientific. > > > > > > ### Think whose logic is useless . > > > > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read > > books > > > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i dont > > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is ur > > > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in vedic > > > astrology . > > > > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 times > > with > > > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > > too ,even u > > > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in > > seeing > > > it . > > > > > > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont > > invite me > > > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds M varma . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40>, > > " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Shri Maheswara Vermaji, > > > > Namaskar! > > > > <he posted diffrnt things even on futility of sri kaul's > > > > reserch and so called claims ,he also asked him to show his > > > > understanding of vedas .he even told he will explain everything > > later > > > > as it needs lot of time to explain all their questions> > > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas- > > vis- > > > > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras > > from > > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > > > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha- > > -- > > > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis! > > > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > > > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > > > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal > > and > > > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and > > > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > > > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > > > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the > > > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- > > > > existent rashis! > > > > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic > > astrology " > > > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a > > science it > > > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that > > the > > > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > > > > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis > > astronomically! > > > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > > > > attempted it till date! Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which > > > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal > > > > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi, > > > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more > > than > > > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. As per their own > > > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct > > assessment! > > > > > > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a > > > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > > > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses > > > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > > > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, > > > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also > > > > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock > > astronomers > > > > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent accuracy " > > in > > > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > > > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place > > earlier > > > > of later by at least three hours and so on! > > > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in > > > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, > > if > > > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of > > Maya > > > > the mlechha! > > > > > > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the > > > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you > > > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! > > > > > > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > > > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. > > planets > > > > affect every individual individually and that also through some > > > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or > > Manduka > > > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about > > 30 > > > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my > > Rahu- > > > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves > > are > > > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika > > system or > > > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > > > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another > > > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being > > > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed > > to > > > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > > > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means > > > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers > > themselves, > > > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > > > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha > > > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is > > the > > > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > > > > beats all the others and so on! > > > > > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > > > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real > > date of > > > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat > > etc. > > > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali > > or > > > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! > > > > > > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > > > > larger than life ego? > > > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to > > be > > > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither > > Vedic > > > > nor scientific. > > > > Dhanyavad. > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40>, > > " maheswara_varma " > > > > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear sanat ji and group . > > > > > > > > > > poor vijayaraghavan ,he thought this is a logical forum ,he > > > > mentioned > > > > > everything but the moderaters r not for seeing the truth > > > > deliberately > > > > > ,they r putting one science in shoes of other science .Or simply > > > > > brushing aside with statements it is common or fluke or > > accidental > > > > like > > > > > this (esp sri kaul ji ) . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the aim is diffrnt i also blv ,what ever points he > > raised is > > > > > true and valid but his lack of time ( when i contcted him he > > also > > > > told > > > > > me he cannot wait till end of the world ,as he told me they r > > simply > > > > > passing time ).he posted diffrnt things even on futility of sri > > > > kaul's > > > > > reserch and so called claims ,he also asked him to show his > > > > > understanding of vedas .he even told he will explain everything > > > > later as > > > > > it needs lot of time to explain all their questions ( as useless > > > > > countering questions will also strt which happened in many > > others > > > > case > > > > > ,as the main question is ,is astrology is usefull than is it is > > a > > > > > science or myth or wheter we got frm greek or US ) ,so he made > > it a > > > > > point to see collectively the results of all those rishi 's > > dictums > > > > ( > > > > > all grp shud participate and he was not imposing any conditions > > > > other > > > > > than this ) ,so first see results and then let us go to > > > > basics .As it > > > > > is more easy for novice s who joined to know what is astrology > > than > > > > > going round the world with mutable/twistable answers .Then > > simply > > > > > asking questions to prolongate the discussions .But once > > results r > > > > known > > > > > then basics r easy to to exlain too .Then every one may not > > wait for > > > > > answers too . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he waited for 20 days to get a positiv reply or a effort to see > > in > > > > > actual way . > > > > > > > > > > then strted getting voilent as any man blvs in quality time will > > > > do . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even he dont use any bad languge other than words fool or fraud > > > > which i > > > > > think is true ,because when some one rejects all the worlds > > > > exprnces how > > > > > can we act cooly .Fist of all where was quality discussion ( > > > > search of > > > > > truth ) frm the moderaters side than repeating some pseudo > > > > intellectual > > > > > points which is ready made too or twisting the points and giving > > > > answers > > > > > for the queries he raised , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > asking others to see or answer only in our way is not logic or > > > > > scientific if some one wants to see the truth ( for exmple swami > > > > > vivekanda and sri ramakrishna paramahamsa dailogues ) ,it is > > > > adamance > > > > > ,unscientific and i think we can call those ppl with having some > > > > secret > > > > > missions /agenda. > > > > > > > > > > now if some one wants why this days it has happend (i mean why > > they > > > > > faced this carpet bombing in this grp ) i will explain to u all > > > > in the > > > > > lite of astro . > > > > > > > > > > but write to me personaly . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > maheswara varma . > > > > > > > > > > ps --I wrote this as my opinion and further discussion on this i > > > > may or > > > > > may not participate depending on constructv approach raised by > > > > queriests > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > also sri sanat ji -dont count on some one who posted a mail is a > > > > > support for u ,any intelligent persons can see it is a way to > > flash > > > > his > > > > > address and some future business ,pls ban all address or > > personal > > > > links > > > > > which is self promoting in future communications in grp,if u r > > > > serious > > > > > in ur approach ( again it is my suggestions only ) . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40>, > > " sanat2221 " > > > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ghopal Ji and members, > > > > > > Namaskar, > > > > > > Yes, episode is over. Actually I do not want to ban any > > member, > > > > > > otherwise very purpose of discussion is defeated. But after > > all we > > > > > > have to maintain some discipline. We all are educated and > > there > > > > are > > > > > > many lady members, senior as well as junior members. What they > > > > will > > > > > > think about us? Hence we must have some etiquette while > > writing > > > > and > > > > > > must maintain a mutual regard. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have already mentioned in my welcome note that we may have > > > > > > difference, but it does not mean that we may behave like > > street > > > > dogs. > > > > > > I have always encouraged that every one may support his stand > > with > > > > > > strong logic. Since the beginning of the forum I am only > > > > discussing > > > > > > about various points, which is being raised or supported by > > > > > > astrologer, hence when I ask for further clarification on > > their > > > > point > > > > > > then they either left, or observe silence or use abusive > > > > language. I > > > > > > do not know what they want to prove with their blind faith > > > > supported > > > > > > by filthy language. Since the very beginning no astrologer has > > > > > > answered my basic question narrated in my blog " astrology a > > > > science > > > > > > or myth " . They used to divert the matter and even then they > > are > > > > not > > > > > > able to substantiate their own points. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually it makes no difference as to how many persons are > > > > following > > > > > > predictive astrology or how many are against astrology. Main > > > > point is > > > > > > both must have their logic. I have never disclosed my stand, > > > > which is > > > > > > already in my book. I am simply asking astrologer so that > > they may > > > > > > substantiate as to how astrology is science or Vedic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Till then general public may be aware as to what procedure was > > > > > > adopted for formulating the principle till then every one may > > > > > > continue to follow his own way, which are quite opposite to > > each > > > > > > other. Like some one say traditional astrology is good some > > will > > > > say > > > > > > KP, some say western and some say Lal kitab and so on. Thus > > every > > > > one > > > > > > is behaving like blind persons who have been asked to describe > > > > > > elephant. > > > > > > > > > > > > General public thinks that it is science, it is vedic it is > > > > created > > > > > > by our sages. But neither predictive astrology is science nor > > it > > > > is > > > > > > vedic nor it is created by our sages (yes it was only > > developed by > > > > > > our sages). Even sign like Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio, > > > > > > Sagittarius etc. has no significance in any Indian religion, > > > > > > tradition, stories etc. So how these signs may be creation of > > our > > > > > > sages. We are actually degrading them with linking their names > > > > with > > > > > > some other religious concept. Whereas every sign has religious > > > > > > background of Greece. Likewise there is no mention of any > > > > principle > > > > > > in Ved nor they know about the solar system and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > When we are analyzing then we must know as to whether our > > faith, > > > > is > > > > > > based on some truth or it is just a blind faith promoted by > > > > > > astrologer for their livelihood. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have many points to discuss. But I will continue my version > > > > after > > > > > > receiving some reaction of the members. > > > > > > > > > > > > I find that so many new members have joined the forum, and > > most of > > > > > > them are quite young. I welcome every new member in our forum. > > > > They > > > > > > have just entered in the struggle of life in the form of job, > > > > > > marriage, promotion, salary etc. In this age every one has > > dreams > > > > but > > > > > > without struggling capacity, like a kid who want to see every > > > > thing > > > > > > in trade-fair but he is not having sufficient skill to save > > him in > > > > > > the crowd and thus he become easy pray. Likewise new > > generation > > > > have > > > > > > dreams but not the self-confidence, ability to accept the > > > > challenges, > > > > > > hard work, patience and so on. Thus they become easy prey of > > > > > > astrologer. Who either infuse fear complex or some distant > > dreams > > > > > > along with some remedy circus. Thus their tender mind is > > polluted > > > > for > > > > > > life long and they continue to think that every planet is > > behind > > > > him > > > > > > and his only job to create problems. Thus he is in search of > > some > > > > > > remedy or some consolation from astrologer that your period > > will > > > > be > > > > > > good, and he looses his struggling capacity. > > > > > > > > > > > > My mission is very clear that every one must have courage to > > face > > > > odd > > > > > > situation, he must acquire knowledge, must improve his logic, > > must > > > > > > have scientific aptitude, ready to work hard, have patience, > > > > > > regularly try for his success, have some clear dream to > > achieve > > > > etc. > > > > > > Astrology is our heritage like a fort but we can not remain > > safe > > > > in > > > > > > fort in the era of missile. Likewise ancient knowledge is our > > > > > > heritage, we must have proud over it but we can neither go > > back to > > > > > > forest / hut nor we can survive with that knowledge. So I will > > > > like > > > > > > to request all young members that never fall in the trap of > > > > > > astrologer (this I am saying after +35 years of study on > > > > astrology), > > > > > > and I am also not going to earn any thing from this alert > > signal. > > > > No > > > > > > doubt astronomy is a good subject (which is Vedic too) hence > > try > > > > to > > > > > > learn about it but not predictive astrology for deciding > > important > > > > > > factors of life, because astrology is merely a form of magic > > or > > > > > > psychological game. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am inviting every young member to come forward and raise > > their > > > > > > question on astrology either inquisitive or learning or > > supportive > > > > > > etc….Always remember that every unanswered question is the > > > gateway > > > > > of > > > > > > knowledge and discussion is the best way to improve your logic > > > > hence > > > > > > never kill your inquisitiveness. So do not be a silent reader > > take > > > > > > active part in discussion. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will also like to know as to how many members will like to > > > > follow > > > > > > my advise, and what is the opinion of elder members, so that > > we > > > > may > > > > > > continue our interaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > TKP Ghopal > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road, > I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001 > 93666 23444 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.