Fwd: [Ind-Arch] Connection of Greeks with India

[Guest guest]

IndiaArchaeology , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

 

Shri Sunil Bhatacharjyaji,

I am not going to reply any of your posts unless you reply the

points raised by me in post No. 7576 (in response to your queries)

which is being copied below.

You cannot escape the hard and unpleasant truth/fact that " Vedic

astrlogy " is a fraud on the Vedas and it is because of that very

fraud that these days the entire Hindu community is made to

celebrate pitra/shradha-paksha which actually ended a month back!

AKK

*** **** ***** ***** ***** ***

 

 

Dear Sunilji,

 

<Please recheck the Sanskrit verse. I read the verse quite

sometime ago and the correct meaning of that verse is as

follows ..Yavanas are mlechhas….>

 

 

 

The Venkateshswar Press, Mumbai, edition of Varahi (Brihat) Samhit

reads the shloka as " mlechha hi yavanas... " whereas a handwritten

copy in Kashmir, with a commentary by Utpala Bhata (he is known

usually as Bhatot-pala) that I had inherited from my maternal

grandfather had said, " yavanah hi mlechhas.. " . (I do not know as to

the " fate " of that manuscript now--perhaps a bonfire of the same was

made by infiltrators who had been occupying that house ever since

1990!).

 

 

 

In any case, the meaning of whether " mlechha hi yavanas.. "

or " yavanah hi mlechhah " cannot be " (all) mlechhas are yavanas " ---

that just is not practically possible!---but it can only be " (all)

yavanas are mlechhas " and by Yavanas, Varahamihira did not mean any

other community in the context there but just the Greeks!

 

 

 

< Secondly you must be aware that Yajnvalkya Smriti says that a King

must consult astrologer>

 

 

 

Pl. quote the exact references!

 

 

 

Secondly, if any " Yajnyavalkya " has said that a king must consult

astrologer, that certainly must be a post Varahamihia's Brihat

Samhita interpolation by some fake " Yajnyavalkya " since that

Yajnyavalkya can never be the Yajnyavalkya of Channdogya and/or

Brihad Arnyaka Upanishada, who had accepted the challenge of all the

other priests/participants in the Rajasooya Yajnya of Janaka that

only a " Brahmajnyani could carry the thousand cows with him " . As

such, If any Yajnyavalkya has advised the king to appoint/consult

a " nakshatra-soochi " he certainly must be some namesake or even an

impostor of Yajnyavalkya just as we have half a dozen Brihat

Parashara Hora Shastra editions by some jyotishis of the last couple

of centuries, all claiming to be the works by Maharshi Parashara,

the father of Krishna Dvaipayana Vedavyasa since the Yajnyavalkya of

Brihad-Arnyaka Upanishad could never have advised King Janaka to

appoint a jyotishi as advisor! For that matter, there is

also " Jaimini sutram " –--which is just a predictive astrology hocus-

pocus setting entirely different rules for the same ---and that work

also is supposed to be the " creation " of Jaimini Rishi of Poorva-

mimasa! Even a Ravana Samhita is floating around and it is said to

be written by the famous king Ravana who had abducted Sita! That

is, of course, besides, Brighu and Aruna etc. etc. Samhitas galore---

all by fake Brighus and Ravanas and Arunas!

 

 

 

Thirdly, all our shastras, including the Manusmriti, have advised

the king to be vigilant at every point of time and not be on the

mercy of " nakshatra-soochis " . The Manu has said (and I am just

quoting it from my memory-- " bakavat chintayet arthan simhavat cha

parakramet " i.e " A king must be as concentrated on his aim as a

kingfisher is and (when the proper time comes) he must attack like a

lion " . Manu has advised everybody without exception that he/she

should never blame fate for anything but must continue with his/her

efforts. Thus, if the Manu advised vanaprasthis particularly that

they should not indulge in being nakshatra-soochis, that cannot

mean, by any stretch of imagination, that he has advised grahasthis

to be nakshara-soochis! If the Manu had desired non-Vanaprasthis to

be " nakshatra-soochis " he could have said in simple words in the

chapters of " dos and don'ts " that " a brahmin can also be a nakshatra-

soochi " !

 

 

 

I have also yet to find any shastra where any Rishi has advised

anybody to consult some soothsayer before embarking on any work!

 

 

 

Yoga-sutras of Patanjali also are very emphatic that a yogi can

foresee everything but then he must detest such sidhis like plague!

 

 

 

There are also instances galore that the personal fate of " nakshatra-

soochis " ---end of their journey on this planet---has not been a very

peaceful one! Their descendants also ultimately suffer---maybe

because the " sins of father often visit his children " and may be

because Mother Nature is very ruthless with anyone who tries to poke

his/her dirty nose in her " other-worldly " affairs! I am sure you

won't ask me to " quote examples " but you will just cast your glance

around to see what I mean!

 

 

 

This is clear from the fact that there were omniscient Rishis in

the past but even they did not divulge before hand as to what was

going to happen to whom and when! Common sense also tells us that if

the Mother Nature wanted to reveal to everybody as to what was

going to befall him/her, there would have be no need to go to such

absurd lengths to hide from him/her the activities of his earlier

janmas!!

 

 

 

Let me cite just a couple of instances: When Dasharatha wanted to

anoint Bhagwan Rama as the Prince Regent, the first thing he did was

to consult his Kulaguru, Bhagwan Vasishtha, about his desire/plans

and also for a proper muhurta. It is said in the Valmiki Ramayana

that just the next day was decided for that " coronation " because of

the nakshtra being proper---perhaps it was Tishya--I am not sure!.

Obviously, Vasishtha Rishi did not caution Dasharatha that he was

going to commit a " suicidal act " by naming Rama as Prince Regent at

that stage! On the other hand, he just let the things take their

normal turn! That means that even if someone knows as to what is

going to happen and when, he/she must just keep quiet and not

interfere in such matters!

 

 

 

Then in the Mbh. a lot of " omens " like " vishvaghasra-paksha " etc.

have been discussed, but we do not find either the Pandvas or the

Kauravas having consulted some soothsayer about the outcome of the

war! On the other hand, in the battlefield itself, when Arjuna

says, " naitadvidmah kataran-no gareeyo, yadva jayema yadi va no

jayeyuh.. " i.e. " ....We do not know whether we (Pandvas) will win

the Kauravas or it will be the other way round " , it is clear from

the same that nobody had consulted any jyotishis, especially since

none was around then as this type of a malady had never existed at

that stage in India.

 

And as if to remove any doubts about consulting some soothsayer,

Bhagwan Krishna did not advise Arjuna, " O Kuntiputra, you just go

to Parshara Rishi. Request him to check from his Brihat Parashari

as to what Dasha-Bhukti and Gochara and Ashtakavarga etc. you are

running and also as to what `remedial measures' you should do to win

the war " . That is at least what the charlatan Varahamihira and

his " shishyas " viz. today's " Vedic astrologers " would have done!

 

Bhagwan Krishna just replied, " Hato va prapsyasi swargam, jitva va

bokshyase maheem " ---i.e. " If you get killed, you will go to the

heavens and if you win the war, you will be the lord of the entire

globe " . Similarly, in spite of being " shodasha kala sampoorna

avatar " i.e. Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent, Lord Krishna

did not tell Arjuna either as to who would win the war! Krishna

just advised Arjuna " klaibyam ma sma gamah partha naitat tvayui

upapadyate, kshyudram hridaya darbalyam tyaktvotishtha parantapai " ---

i.e. " don't be such a nincompoop! just cast aside your mental sloth

and be ready for the battlefield "

 

 

 

That exactly is the summum-bonum of all our shastras " kurvaneva eha

karmani jijeevishet shatam samaha... " . i.e. " You must aspire to

live a hundred years but continue to do your karma---instead of

running after jyotishis! " —Mandukya Upanishad.

 

 

 

As against this uncertainty of Arjuna about the outcome of the

battle, the same Mbh. tell us about the certainty of Karna, the

half/step brother of Arjuna, when he says to Krishna, " I know fully

well that Pandvas will win the war " . It was not that Karna had

consulted some soothsayer for that purpose but just see Karna's

logic when he says in the same breath " since you the Master of the

Universes is his charioteer (that is why Pandavas will win the

war)! But even then, I will do my dharma to fight on behalf of

Duryodhana though I know I will get killed in the battlefield " .

 

 

 

In the same Mbh, Bhishma is very sure and ruthless about the

treatment to be meted out to nakshatra-soochis " Just treat such

Brahmins as chandalas " ! And that is that!

 

 

 

< However lying and cheating have been condemned in the

Mahabharata, which advocates " Lokasangraha " , ie. doing good to

people.>

 

 

 

Do you think there can be any worse " cheating and lying " than

propagating " Vedic astrology " when there are no Mesha, Vrisha etc.

Rashis or the most dreaded planets viz. Mangal and Shani etc.

either in the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha? What type

of " lokasangraha " is it what " good is it doing to them " .

 

 

 

Even logically, why can't we just ponder on the fact that it was and

is IMPOSSIBLE for any predictions to have been correct since all

the works right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha through

Ganesha Davijnyas Grahalaghava had wrong fundamental arguments

whereas there is a worse mess today with the cacophony of zillions

of Ayanamshas---Lahiri, Ramana, Fagan, Zero, Chandra Hari, Chopra,

Yukteshwar and what not---besides Vismshotari, Ashtotari, Yogini,

Kalachakra, Manduka etc. etc. thirty-six types of Dasha-bhuktis as

per the " bible " of " Vedic astrologers " viz. the Brihat Parashari!

And don't you think all such jargon about our ancestors having made

correct predictions on the basis of incorrect astronomical data or

the claims of jyotishis that they are going by the words of

Parahsara or Brighu or Jaimini etc. is " lying and cheating " ?

 

 

 

Let us also check the " past records " . We are supposed to be

practicing " Vedic astrology " over the last at least seven thousand

years ---from the time of the Rig-Veda! However, there is nothing on

record to show that anybody whether Varahamihira or his son

Prithuyashas or any other jyotishi over the last several thousand

years had ever made any prediction on the basis of " Vedic astrology "

as to which disaster would take place where and when! There was a

hearsay in Kashmir that King Nala had lost his empire and fallen on

penury to such an extent that he had to tear the half of the sari of

his consort Damayanti to cover his naked body----all just because

king Nala was having Saturn's Sade sati then!

 

When I checked the entire Mbh. from cover to cover with a tooth

comb, I could not find any Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis there, so there

was no question of any " Sade-sati " . All I could find there was that

Nala had lost his empire just because he was a bad gambler---exactly

like Pandavas had lost not only their empire but even their consort

Draupadi because of gambling!

 

Don't you think floating such hearsays by jyoishis is " lying and

cheating " ? And what good is it " doing to people " ?

 

 

 

Then in the recent past, there have been instances galore where all

the jyotishis were caught napping, if not on the wrong foot e.g.

whether it was Chandra-Shekhar or P V Narasimha Rao or Deve Gowda or

I K Gujral etc. nobody, I repeat nobody, had ever predicted anything

about their being the Heads of the largest democracy of the world!

Same is the case about the present PM! Nobody had predicted

that " Singh will be the king " . If the fate/future of such important

personalities as are to be the Heads of the largest democracy of the

world cannot be judged before-hand, it is a moot point that any

ordinary Tom, Dick or Harry will have a better " luck " at the hands

of jyotishis!

 

 

 

Why don't these jyotishis predict today as to when the next flood or

Tsunami or disaster is going to take place and in which part of

which state of which country and come to the rescue of the

governments? They can win a Nobel Prize if they really have such

acumen! Why are they always vague like " there will be disasters and

storms and a leader may die and… " All just ambiguous statements!

Great cry and little wool! Virtual " lying and cheating " .

 

 

 

Leave alone mundane affairs, no jyiotishi has ever predicted

anybody's death---even his/her own death before hand! There also

they have always been caught on the wrong foot! A couple of years

back there was a great tamasha when a leading " Vedic astrologer " had

predicted that Mr. ……of Betul (MP) would pass away at exact 4-30 pm

on that date and all the TV channels had gone to the town with all

that tamasha! And that Jyotishi of Betul is still going strong and

so is that " great astrologer " who made a laughing stock of himself!

People surely have extremely poor memories in such cases, since

that " Great jyotishi " is still attached as advisor for " Vedic

astrology " with all the pomp and paraphernalia to a " Bhavan " !

 

If all that is not " lying and cheating " what else is it then?

What " good " has that tamasha done to " people " and what type

of " lokasangraha " was that?

 

 

 

Then what is most ironic is that all the eighteen Puranas like

Srimad Bhagavata, Shiva Maha-purana, Vishnudharmotara-purana, Devi

Bhagavata, Linga Purana etc. etc. proclaim in one voice that Mesha

Sankranti is another name of Vernal Equinox when the day and night

are equal and that is also the name of (solar) Vaishakha and Vedic

Madhava. Similarly, all those Puranas also say that Makara

Sankranti is nothing but a synonym of Uttarayana i.e. the Winter

Solstice, the shortest day of the year and that very Sankranti is

the start of the Vedic month Tapah/Magha and so on! You could thus

say that the puranas want us to follow a so called Sayana

Rashichakra---though let me caution you that Rashis are neither

sayana nor nirayana, since there are no rashis astronomically---they

are just non-existent and sheer imaginations of Jyotishis---Western

and Eastern!

 

Why are the " Vedic jyotishis " then going by a so called Lahiri

Rashichakra or Ramana Rashichakra etc. etc. not only for their

predictive gimmicks but even fasts, fairs and muhurtas? Don't you

think that is " lying and cheating " ?

 

 

 

I can understand your curiosity about my such vehemence about " Vedic

astrology " and even " Vedic astrologers " but I am sure you know it

already that the net outcome of all our fatal infatuation with

fatalism on the shoulders of " Vedic astrology " has been that we have

been celebrating all our muhurtas and festivals on wrong days,

thanks to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha and Varahamihira

the charlatan!

 

 

 

I have been crying literally from housetops about the same and by

now it is a certainty that the only motive for propagating " Vedic

astrology " is that the Hindu community must never be able to

celebrate its muhurts and festivals on proper days!

 

And because I am pointing out all these anachronisms, I am being

dubbed as a " Muslim who got converted to Kashmiri Pundit " with a

hidden agenda! There is no " hidden agenda " on my part. It is an

open one---to streamline the real Hindu calendar! As such, will

these " Vedic jyotishis " please have some God's fear in their hearts

and just do some introspection since after all, in spite of claiming

to be omniscient, they certainly do not know that they may just pass

on to the other world next moment and there they will definitely

have to answer a lot of questions!

 

Or are they---the " Vedic astrologers " ----acting up to some " agenda "

on behalf of some overseas " Vamadevas " for whom our continuing to

celebrate our festivals and muhurtas on wrong days is the only way

out to keep us tethered to " adharma " and thereby lead us to our own

downfall---since those " Vamadevas " know---whether we know it or

not!---that " dharmo rakshyati rakshitah, dharmo hanti hatah " and

when the entire Hindu community celebrates all its festivals and

muhurtas on wrong days, they are certainly killing their own dharma

and thus leading themselves to their own downfall just to please

some overseas " Vamadevas " , courtesy " Vedic astrologers " !

 

The Hindu community must certainly try to find answers to all these

very inconvenient questions!

 

With regards,

 

A K Kaul

 

IndiaArchaeology , Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote:

 

>

 

> DearAvtarji,

 

>

 

> QUOTE

 

>

 

> A running translation of the same could be

 

>

 

> " Yavanas are mlechhas. This shastra, i.e. predictive astrology,

is

 

> well established in them. As such, even they (in spite of being

 

 

 

IndiaArchaeology , Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote:

>

> Shri Avtarji,

>

> I fail to understand why do you go on repeating that Atharva

Jyotisha and Atharva Veda Parisihta are works of 4th / 5th century

BCE without having any proof? You repeatedly talk about

Panchsiddhantika as if you have personally read it. But have you

really read it? Please tell us as to who has published that book if

at all you are lucky to have read it. I feel it would be better if

you please write short, crisp and to-the-point letters and not

bombard us with unnecessary matters.

>

> Regards,

>

> sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

>

>

 

--- End forwarded message ---