Guest guest Posted August 29, 2008 Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 Dear Ghopal ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your quick reply. I surprised to know that you have studied in JU, Gwalior. Inform some more details about your college, residence, friends, present job etc. I am living in Dal Bazar. I will like to meet you during your next visit to Gwalior. Sh NN Pandey is professional astrologer and busy in ………… JU has started the course on Jyotish some 4 years back at the time of NDA Govt. But it has only 3-4 students since then. I know that Shri Pandey Ji was not a student since then. I don't know from where he has done his doctorate in Jyotish. Now your comment : >>>>>>I am of the feeling if the language is maintained like this many may not leave the forum.<<<<<<< I am very particular about the language and I think I am maintaining my language. Even then I will appreciate if you point out some msg where I may have slipped. In my welcome note I have mentioned >>>>>>>> this forum is intended to unearth the science of astrology hence interaction is totally academic and may never be taken as personal. Because it is natural that we may have difference of opinion but there must be no personal difference, and try to strongly convince the members with your stand, logic, scientific concept etc., but never use insulting or filthy language, as is being done in many other forums. Thus give regard to get regard for maintaining a healthy academic atmosphere.<<<<<<< However generally I do not forget to mention " Remember that nothing is personal and it is academic discussion " , so that feeling of any member may not hurt. Even then if members are not willing to know and want to continue with their unfounded faith, and prepared to leave the forum without any personal ill-will then what I can do. I always want that every one must interact if they think that astrology is science. Hence I always request members to invite their friends as no permission is required for membership or msg. I hope members will realize the importance of interaction, which is available with the help of science, which was not available to our ancestral. I am also happy that except one/two instances, members are using good language. I have also warned for using filthy language. But problem of filthy language may only arise when members come forward with their stand, but when most of the members are in silence zone so where is the question of good language. Hi Hi. Regarding Sh. AKK and Dipika Ji, I will like to say that though they are not in support of astrology, even then their language is very good. Both are highly qualified. I am reading the msg of Sh AKK since long and I find that he also maintain his language despite very harsh language. Regarding >>>>> I presume that Sun,Moon,Rahu and Ketu must fall in line for a total eclipse.But that was not the position last time.Why?<<<<<<<< I will like to say that this is not the position with this eclipse only. I have mentioned (in my book) full cycle of eclipse during 18 years where position of Rahu/ Ketu is not matching with the position of sun and moon. Two examples are also given in my first msg " Astrology a science or myth " . I am again quoting the extract from my msg dated 17-7-8 >>>>>>>you will not find any scripture where it was mentioned that eclipse is due to shadow of earth or Moon. You can not even provide the maths behind it. For your kind information Rahu was treated as only reason for eclipse even Ketu was not mentioned anywhere as responsible for eclipse. But due to actual eclipse when Rahu was 180 deg away, there was always confusion about the actual cause of eclipse. But due to imaginary retrograde motion of rahu ketu, eclipse was traced. After scientific concept about the solar system it was initially not accepted but in last 50 years it has been accepted by the society. Thus astrologer also tried to amend and find a new trick to befool the public by claiming that Rahu ketu is intersection point of orbit. But is it mentioned by any sages? NO. Because in their concept Moon was above the Sun then how Moon can create shadow. Thus I have raised a point in my blog that when Rahu Ketu is intersection point of orbit and total solar eclipse is visible, it means Sun and Moon are on the intersection point, and Rahu ketu must be also on the intersection point. <<<<<< Thus you can see that motion and position as is being used by astrologers has nothing to do with the correct position and motion. After analyzing every eclipse I am of the firm opinion that all horoscopes are wrongly showing the position of these important planets, whether it may be KP or Indian or western. I have forwarded my blog " astrology a science or myth " to many astrologers but they are busy in cheating or exploiting general public hence they prefer silence. If you want to see then just ask various questions raised in my blog and find out the answer from the astrologers. As you are members of many forums and active too. Now you can imagine as to when position of Rahu/Ketu is not correct, which are very important planets for prediction. Then how a horoscope is correct or how prediction may be correct or how KP etc. may be correct. If you will go through from my blog sincerely then you will find that every astrological principle is wrong as they were formulated on wrong basics. And for this you have to know the process of making pudding (principles) and have to come out from your earlier stand >>>>>> Why dont you eat the pudding instead of counting the holes in it.<<<<<<<< (your msg 16-7-8) Most of the astrologers of Gwalior (like many other cities) have gone through my book and most of them are not interested in discussion for fear of loosing their business. But some astrologer (local and of other cities) have admitted in their very personal meeting that they are convinced with the contents of the book and have no answer except to follow the system. Now what I can do? Either I may join their band and exploit innocents or keep informing others. I prefer second option. Hope to hear soon. Nothing is personal (except invitation to Gwalior. Hi Hi). Thanks Yours truly, Sanat , " TKP Ghopal " <astrogopalji wrote: > > Dear Sanatji > Thank you for your explanetary and pleasing language. > I am very much fascinated by the knowledge you possess. > Also I am of the feeling if the language is maintained like this many may > not leave the forum. > I am keenly watching the forum and anyone sticking with this like AKK,Dipika > are really knowledgeable. > Anyone shows their angry has reality. > Coming to the point regading rahu-ketu away by 5 degs during last eclipse is > a mistery to me. > Whatever I had gone thro to my little knowledge ( I ve only 11 years of > experiance in astrology,that too kp only,I ve little knowledge about > Parasara-I dont ve " I know everything " kind of attitude) I presume that > Sun,Moon,Rahu and Ketu must fall in line for a total eclipse.But that was > not the position last time.Why? I really dont know.If you can explain I ll > try to understand.Thanking you in anticipation. > There was a time, since planets and sun are proved to be existing phisical > matters,and the study on that can be called as Science.The prediction > offered on the basis of planetary movements are to be considered as Science > of approximation .This used to be discussed in our Association at Salem > inTN,whenever anyone claims that he talks Science.We used to make him > realise that it cannot be tested on lab,so may be, you can call it a > sciennce of approximation.Hence it is not defined as to be a sceince of > approximation either. > > I came across one astrologer by name Pt.Dr.Narendranath Pandey > M.Sc.,Astronomy,Doctorate in Astrology awarded by Jiwaji > University,Gwalior.(His viasiting card gives the above information) His > office is in Naya bazaar,Lashkar opp.to Dr.Kaul Narsing home. > I personally went to meet him in the interest of meeting some astrologer in > Gwalior during my brief visit.Though I saw him I could not ve a meeting with > him since he was unable to offer me an appointment. > Well, I wanted to know ,since you are a Gwaliorian do Jiwaji University > offer Doctorate? > I am keen becuase I was a student of JU way back in 1978-1982. > I shall go thro the file section and come with more queries so that others > also get enlightened in astrology. > Thanks and Regards > tkp ghopal > > > On 8/27/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > > Dear Ghopal ji, > > Namaskar, > > Thanks for your msg after 24 days. Happy to know that atleast you are > > reading the msgs. You have raised a question : > > > > >>>>>>>>>Everytime some one or the other is getting away from this > > forum > > accusing of bringing discredit to both astrology and Hindu > > religion.<<<<<<<<<<<< > > > > Perhaps you are referring the msg of Sh. Razdan Ji, But you may have > > also gone through my msg dated 6-8-8, wherein I have clarified the > > position. I am again quoting the para : > > > > >>>>>> From which msg you find that I am downgrading astrology. If I > > am informing or asking as to how sign, signlord etc. were formulated > > (refer my first msg / blog " Astrology a science or myth')then it is > > not downgrading, or if I am saying that sign etc. are not in Ved then > > it is not downgrading (you can also refer in length reply of Sh Kaul > > ji), if I am asking as to why Ketu is 5 deg. away at the time of > > total eclipse, when astrologers are claiming that Rahu ketu are > > intersection point of orbits and so on ……… than how you can say I am > > downgrading astrology. If astrologers have no answer then it is their > > fault (though I have hinted below every question and detail is > > available in the book), who are exploiting public by claiming it > > science and have no logical answer. > > > > If you admit and promote the view that astrology (predictive) is not > > science then I will not ask any question. But you, like all > > astrologers have faith on astrology then please do not publicize it > > as a science. You can claim that it is our heritage, it is taken from > > ancestral, it is like God (no pujari of any temple of any religion is > > claiming that existence of God is Science, because business of > > pujaries are roaring but on the other hand business of astrologers > > are always in doldrums hence at one point of time they take shelter > > in faith and at another point of time they claim it as science yet > > another time they claim it as vedang etc….). But if astrologers will > > claim that it is science then I have right to question its validity > > as science that too after putting +35 years in astrology and writing > > two original books. <<<<<<<< > > > > I hope this will clear your question. You have further asked : > > > > >>>>>> you all got Vexed with astrology becoz of some misereable > > failures?!<<<<<<<<<< > > > > Regarding this I have explained in detail as to how I have proceeded > > in the direction of analyzing astrological principles itself. Please > > refer file " Astrology a science or myth " in file section of 1st msg > > of the forum. > > > > I have also asked some questions from you but you have not yet > > answered. Main problem is this. So first of all it must be cleared, I > > repeat it must be cleared that > > > > - Predictive astrology has nothing to do with our religion or > > religious faith. > > - it was not mentioned in any ved or puran that predictive astrology > > is religion hence follow it. > > - If any one think that astrology is religiously supported then he > > must come forward instead of leaving the forum. Leaving the forum > > without discussion it-self shows that they do not know either any > > thing about religion or about astrology. > > - It is time and again claimed that astrology is science. But they > > don't know about the science. Because scientific principles are > > always under test and ready to modify. Thus astrological principles > > must be checked as to how they were formulated (refer astrology a > > science or myth) and so on. > > > > Actually society has a mindset due to ignorance that any question > > about sages is sin. Though Parashar himself wrote in Vishnu Puran > > that Earth is stationary and Sun is one lakh yojan from the Earth and > > Moon is again one lakh yojan from the Sun and so on. I have written > > in detail in my book about every astrological principle as to how all > > principles were formulated around this concept. But when members are > > themselves confused and do not want to read Parashar and following > > 3rd grade books on astrology, whose writer cunningly incorporating > > modern knowledge about the solar system in the name of sages. Then > > what I can do. Actually they are degrading the labour of our sages > > who were inquisitive to know about the universe. Thus agree to absorb > > the knowledge of Greeks too. Actually we are shying to present them > > in old fashioned cloths (knowledge) in modern well dressed society. > > It is like a well educated son, foreign return, highly qualified, > > highly paid, highly regarded etc. (like you – not personally you); > > and his parents may be quite illiterate, in view of modern knowledge, > > but are quite eligible to realize the importance of education, that's > > why they have tried their best with their limited source of income, > > knowledge and so on (like our sages) and give good guidance and > > adviced him (new generations) to get good knowledge (tamso ma > > jyotirgamay) and so on. But when same son was asked about his parent > > by some equally qualified person, then he will shy to say that I am > > son of illiterate parents, who are quite unaware of modern knowledge > > etc. then definitely he will boast and claim that his parents are > > very rich, and they are quite aware of all modern gadgets and they > > are post graduate and so on. So don't you think that by this coverup > > his son is actually undermining the pain, devotion, sanskar etc. of > > his parents (sages) and actually defaming them. > > > > Thus you may have proud on the skill of our sages who were living in > > huts, who were burning the light with rubbing of wood, who were > > gazing sun moon with very inquisitive mind and so on. Because it is > > our heritage and we have acquired modern knowledge on the ABC of our > > sages. What is the harm if we admit that our parents are illiterate > > or our sages were not aware with modern knowledge? > > > > We must have courage to preserve the hut of our ancestral as our > > heritage and on the other hand must be prepared to build modern > > building instead of cheating to say that building was prepared by our > > ancestral. > > > > I think members and general public must be aware as to what is > > factual position and what is polluted information. Only then one can > > know as to what is right and what is wrong. Thus aim of the forum is > > just to inform the factual position and let public or member or > > reader may decide about the correctness. But until members/ public is > > not prepared to hear any thing against so called religion of > > astrology due to fear of sin and transfer in Narak, nothing can be > > done. But I will continue to inform the public about the factual > > position, so that persons who are not governed by his mind and are > > governed by the mass will realize in due course. > > > > I have asked about the following questions from you. But I am still > > waiting the replies. > > - Why Ketu / Rahu is far away from the intersection point of orbit > > during eclipse. As is being claimed by modern astrological books that > > eclipse is due to intersection of orbit. Is it not evident that all > > horoscopes are wrongly showing the position of these important > > planets. All members must ask their astrologer about this and then > > realize the hollow standing of astrologers. > > > > -Your experience about NADI. > > > > I will again like to say that SILENCE OR LEAVING IS NOT THE SOLUTION > > IF YOU HAVE INQUISITIVE MIND. Hence every member must take part in > > active exchange of views and substantiate his stand, for which this > > forum has been formed; (about which you have asked) otherwise there > > are so many forums who are advocating some false myths without > > discussion. They are like `Jyotishi sammelans' (gathering of > > astrologers) where first announcement is like that " every orator may > > take 5-10 minutes and only speak in support of astrology and do not > > talk against the astrology " . If members may have attended then they > > know it. But here we are analyzing the correctness of astrological > > principles in view of modern knowledge. > > > > Some previous discussions have been incorporated in SOA_______ files. > > I am not updating them as members are not interested in discussion, > > because (I am sorry to say) they only have faith on astrology only > > due to misconception that it is religious and moreover they are > > neither inquisitive, nor aware with the religion nor aware with the > > background of predictive astrology except some instant benefit if > > some astrologer may predict some thing about them or astrologer > > members are interested in their publicity and monetary gains. Though > > 99% percent astrologer believes that astrology is correct and do not > > want to hear or analyze it for fear of monetary loss. And 1% > > astrologer though know that prediction may not be correct but still > > following for the monetary benefit. And do not want to be exposed in > > front of members that they are not in a position to reply pointed > > question hence only escape route is either silence or quitting the > > forum. Is it not a strange that since last 5 months I am asking > > astrologers to come forward in support of their stand. But either > > they are silent or leaving the forum for fear of their downgrading > > instead of fear of downgrading of astrology. It is for the innocent > > new members to realize as to how astrologers are not aware with the > > astrology but aware with the technique of extracting the money. > > > > I hope you will not go in long silence and come forward with some > > stand. > > > > Remember that nothing is personal and it is academic discussion for > > the benefit of the innocent members who are just entering in this > > field with a wrong notion that astrology is religious and more then > > science or they can know their future or like this. > > > > Thanks > > Yours truly, > > Sanat > > > > <% 40>, > > " TKP Ghopal " > > <astrogopalji@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mr. AKK > > > I had been reading all the mails atleast for the past 2 months. > > > Everytime some one or the other is getting away from this forum > > accusing of > > > bringing discredit to both astrology and Hindu religion. > > > Your postings are exemplary I can say. > > > The way you asked this gentleman KN Punji that how come he could > > bring 100% > > > result is quite applaudable. > > > Your expolaration and Sanatji 's explanatons are incomparabe. > > > You exhibit a very vast knowledge in astrology. > > > Is that you all got Vexed with astrology becoz of some misereable > > failures?! > > > Though your language and derivations are pretty good I dont > > understand why > > > on the name of heaven you are throwing mud on astrology. > > > Ofcousre most of the people come to astrology the moment they read > > some > > > books and start telling some thing to their near and dear and they > > lift them > > > to an extent that these ppl give accurate predictions. > > > Alas! They claim to have gone to high altitudes in astrology. > > > I know there are astrologers who still claim that the planets are > > Gods and > > > dont even want to believe that they have phisical existance,and > > they (those > > > so called astrologers)pull lot of crowds. > > > What I want to ask you is what is the very idea of this forum? > > > Execpting few of you ,ppl enter and go out atonce becoz of the > > negative (?) > > > attitude of this forum? > > > > > > Regards > > > tkp ghopal > > > > > > On 8/25/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Shir K. N. Punji-ji, > > > > Namaskar! > > > > Many thanks for your post because unless someobdy express some > > view, > > > > we just cannot assess our own views! > > > > > > > > It pains me personally to note that you are pained because of some > > > > points discussed in this forum. IMHO, your " pain " is actually > > > > without any factual foundation! Let me clarify my stand point by > > > > point: > > > > > > > > <I am very pained that some people are holding our relegion and > > the > > > > shashtra in contempt.> > > > > > > > > Could you kindly quote even a single post where any shastra or the > > > > Hindu religion has been held in contempt. > > > > > > > > < I am an astrologer and making accurate predictions not once but > > > > everytime is no coincidence.> > > > > > > > > I am really glad to know that your predictions prove cent per cent > > > > correct! Till date no astrologer has claimed cent-per-cent > > success! > > > > All the top-notch astrologes say that " God only can make cent per > > > > cent correct predictions " . They claim a maximum of seventy per > > cent > > > > success! Yours is thus an achievement which needs certainly to be > > > > lauded. Prior to that, would you kindly answer the following > > points: > > > > 1. For how long have you been in astrology? > > > > 2. What ayanamsha do you use and why? > > > > 3. What books on astrology do you use for predictions and why? > > > > 4. Have you learnt astrology from some institution like Bharatiya > > > > Vidya Bhavan or ICAS etc. or " at the feet of some guru " ? Or is it > > > > that you have mastered the subject just by self-studying! > > > > 5. You claim cent per cent success in your predictions. Are any of > > > > them recorded? Would you kindly let us know as to which > > predictions > > > > they i.e. the recorded ones were/are and where have they been > > > > recorded? > > > > 6. Since what date did your predictions prove cent per cent > > correct? > > > > From the day you started making predeictions or was it in the > > > > " recent past " ? > > > > 7. Do you practise some sidhi or some mantra etc. > > > > Kindly do not treat it as a sort of interrogation but since you > > have > > > > made an exceptional claim, all I want is to satisfy myself. As > > > > already repeated several times, my maternal grandfather could make > > > > cent per cent correct predictions from horoscopes prepared from > > > > Grahalaghava panchangas! But that success was more because of his > > > > selflesness and sidhi than anything else. > > > > > > > > <I find that this forum has been formed to bring discredit to our > > > > great astrologers even of the current time.> > > > > Would you kindly let me know as to which " great astrologer of the > > > > current time " has been discredited and in what manner? > > > > With regards, > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > <% 40> > > <% > > 40>, > > > > kn punj <knpunj@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear ALL > > > > > > > > > > I am very pained that some people are holding our relegion and > > the > > > > shashtra in contempt. > > > > > I am an astrologer and making accurate predictions not once but > > > > everytime is no coincidence. > > > > > I joined this forum to enhance my knowledge but I find that this > > > > forum has been formed to bring discredit to our great astrologers > > > > even of the current time. > > > > > I see no point in being a part of this forum and become a party > > to > > > > some people who name themselves as brahmins ........ . > > > > > GOODBYE. > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 23/8/08, > > <% 40> > > <% > > 40> > > > > < <% 40><% > > 40>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > <% 40> > > <% > > 40> > > > > < <% 40><% > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > Digest Number 119 > > > > > <% 40> > > <% > > 40> > > > > > Saturday, 23 August, 2008, 2:48 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Science of Vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > Messages In This Digest (11 Messages) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1a. > > > > > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > 1b. > > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! > > > > Phanindar pb > > > > > 1c. > > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > 1d. > > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! > > > > Phanindar pb > > > > > > > > > > 2a. > > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM Phanindar pb > > > > > 2b. > > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM dipika blr > > > > > 2c. > > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM dipika blr > > > > > 2d. > > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM dilip mukherjee > > > > > > > > > > 3a. > > > > > Fwd: [HinduCalendar] " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on > > the > > > > V dipika blr > > > > > 3b. > > > > > Re: Fwd: [HinduCalendar] " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud > > on > > > > t Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > > > > > > 4a. > > > > > Fwd: Re: [Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad] Eclipses and fear psychosis > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > View All Topics | Create New Topic > > > > > Messages > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1a. > > > > > > > > > > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > Posted by: " Avtar Krishen Kaul " jyotirved@ a_krishen > > > > > Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:28 am (PDT) > > > > > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " > > <jyotirved@ ..> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji, > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic > > astrology " - > > > > the > > > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by > > you > > > > in > > > > > July > > > > > 2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008! > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge of " Vedic > > > > > astrologers " > > > > > about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why > > they > > > > call > > > > > themselves " Vedic astrologers " ! They base their claims of > > > > astrology > > > > > being > > > > > an " anga " of the Vedas because there is a " Vedanga " > > named " Vedanga > > > > > Jyotisha " ! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts! > > > > > > > > > > " Vedanga Jyotisha " is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th century > > BCE > > > > > compiled > > > > > in Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of calculating mean > > > > > tithi and > > > > > nakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the four > > > > > cardinal > > > > > points besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months! > > > > > > > > > > It does not mention anything even by mistake about any planets > > like > > > > > Budha, > > > > > Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, Vrisha > > > > etc. > > > > > Rashis! > > > > > > > > > > Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology > > > > just > > > > > because there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even know > > > > ABC > > > > > of > > > > > their own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some > > > > > overseas " Vamadevas " > > > > > are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and the > > > > > Vedangas > > > > > themselves first and then enter into discussions on such topics- > > -- > > > > > lest they > > > > > put on public display their lack of knowledge of their own > > shastras > > > > > otherwise! > > > > > > > > > > Here is a challenge to all the " Vedic astrologers " the world > > over: > > > > > pl. > > > > > quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga > > > > > Jyotisha or > > > > > the Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that > > matter, > > > > > the so > > > > > called Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, Vrisha > > etc. > > > > > Rashis > > > > > even by mistake! > > > > > > > > > > We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta either > > > > prior > > > > > to the > > > > > Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika! > > > > > > > > > > We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets > > either > > > > in > > > > > any of > > > > > the Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to the > > Surya > > > > > Sidhatna of Maya the mlechha! > > > > > > > > > > Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. > > > > Rashis > > > > > in the > > > > > Mahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also > > > > > nakshatras times > > > > > without number! > > > > > > > > > > Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic > > > > > astrology is > > > > > taking the Hindu community for a ride! > > > > > > > > > > We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, > > Shani > > > > > etc. > > > > > planets in the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana- > > walas, > > > > all > > > > > the > > > > > puranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of > > Vernal > > > > > Equinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar Sankanti > > as the > > > > > Uttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year > > and > > > > so > > > > > on! > > > > > That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya > > > > Sidhanta > > > > > where > > > > > Makar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It > > > > > definitely > > > > > leads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc. > > Rashis > > > > > had been > > > > > imported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then > > later > > > > > incorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu " sishyas of > > > > > Varahamihira " . > > > > > > > > > > Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge for > > all > > > > the > > > > > Vedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world over! > > Let > > > > > them > > > > > quote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or Shastra > > that > > > > has > > > > > advised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on any > > plan! > > > > > On the > > > > > other hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that > > > > > any " nakshatra > > > > > soochi-brahman " must be treated as a chandala. That is exactly > > > > > contrary to > > > > > what Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita " Yavanas (like > > > > Maya > > > > > of the > > > > > Surya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are > > > > mlechhas > > > > > but > > > > > because they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis " .! > > > > > > > > > > Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the > > > > sidhantas > > > > > and > > > > > karna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the > > mlechha to > > > > > Graha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong > > orbital > > > > > elements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred > > years > > > > > back, > > > > > i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, panchangas > > in > > > > > Bharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works i.e. > > > > > sidhantas > > > > > and karna-granthas! That means that even those panchangas were > > > > > absolutely > > > > > wrong! And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong > > > > panchangas > > > > > till a > > > > > few decades back in India! What is most surprising is > > that " Vedic > > > > > astrologers " are shouting from housetops that our ancestors > > right > > > > from > > > > > Varahamihira to " my grandpa " made correct predictions and that > > is > > > > why > > > > > Hindu > > > > > astrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other > > > > astrology > > > > > the > > > > > world over! > > > > > > > > > > Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was > > > > actually > > > > > thus > > > > > based on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we > > claim > > > > > that our > > > > > " ancestors " made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU ASTROLOGY > > > > > (KNOWN AS > > > > > VEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS " THE ART (OR IS IT > > > > THE 'SCIENCE'?) > > > > > OF > > > > > MAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA " > > > > > > > > > > Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that? > > > > > > > > > > Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no astrologer > > has > > > > > till > > > > > date predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!) > > would > > > > > take > > > > > place where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that your > > > > > namesake > > > > > late P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even > > hinted > > > > > that > > > > > Shri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More than a > > > > > decade > > > > > back, the Congress I had been written off by the " greatest Vedic > > > > > astrologer > > > > > of the twentieth century " in his Astrological Magazine and had > > > > > advised Smti. > > > > > Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! The > > > > editor > > > > > of > > > > > BABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA government > > would > > > > > not last > > > > > beyond more than six months after taking over the reins and it > > is > > > > > learnt > > > > > that on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even > > started > > > > > making > > > > > preparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around > > > > September > > > > > 2004! > > > > > They are, however, still waiting for that prediction to > > materialize > > > > > whereas > > > > > in the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's " is not keeping good health " -- > > - > > > > > something > > > > > which no jyotishi had " foreseen " . > > > > > > > > > > That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, does > > not > > > > > know even > > > > > his time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed that > > > > > he/she had > > > > > predicted that " Singh would be the king " . > > > > > > > > > > That also reminds me that the " greatest Vedic astrologer of the > > > > > twentieth > > > > > century " had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture on > > > > January > > > > > 3 of > > > > > the ensuing year on " Astrology as an aid to the diagnosis of > > heart > > > > > attacks " > > > > > but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of " Cardiac > > arrest " -- > > > > - > > > > > to > > > > > delivering that " astrologically planned " lecture! > > > > > > > > > > His " Notable Horoscopes " gives the most incorrect planetary > > > > > longitudes of > > > > > all the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has made > > > > correct > > > > > " assessments " /predictions of all the charts in that work! That > > is > > > > > why I say > > > > > " Vedic astrologers can make correct predictions only from > > incorrect > > > > > data " . > > > > > > > > > > If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about themselves > > > > > correctly, > > > > > how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else > > properly? > > > > > > > > > > What is most damaging for these " Vedic astrologers " is the fact > > > > that > > > > > in > > > > > spite of their claims that they have been practicing the so > > called > > > > > nirayana > > > > > astrology at least over the last seven thousand years, (right > > from > > > > > the Vedic > > > > > times!) they are still unable to decide as to which ayanamsha, > > if > > > > > any, is > > > > > the correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen > > > > > ayanamshas like > > > > > Lahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari, > > Chopra, > > > > > Surya > > > > > Sidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even " zero " ayanamsha going around-- > > - > > > > each > > > > > claiming to give the maximum correct results! What they fail to > > > > > understand > > > > > that if any ayanamsha is correct, all the rest are incorrect! > > All > > > > of > > > > > them > > > > > can never be correct, though all of them can simultaneously be > > > > wrong! > > > > > > > > > > These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that astrological > > > > > rashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their > > > > > imagination since > > > > > the Rashis have no existence actually/astronomic ally and that > > is > > > > why > > > > > we find > > > > > hundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat > > twelve > > > > > equal > > > > > segments/compartmen ts/divisions astronomically and that is why > > > > > whether it is > > > > > JPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give planetary > > > > > longitudes > > > > > in terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical works > > but > > > > > just the > > > > > longitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees! > > > > > > > > > > It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were > > taken as > > > > > rashis > > > > > (astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what was > > > > > imported into > > > > > India! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana > > rashis > > > > do > > > > > not > > > > > exist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy or > > > > > confusion > > > > > about sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist at all! It is > > thus a > > > > > confusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West! > > > > > > > > > > The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike the > > fake > > > > > Vamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus pocus > > > > and > > > > > they > > > > > did not need any astrological Rashis thus! The Vedic seers named > > > > the > > > > > Vedic > > > > > months just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons and > > to > > > > > four > > > > > cardinal points----i. e. the two Equinoxes and two Solstices! > > It is > > > > a > > > > > fallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so > > called > > > > > Sayana > > > > > or the so called nirayana and that is why we are all > > celebrating our > > > > > festivals and muhurtas on wrong days! > > > > > > > > > > The most glaring example of the " benefits of 'Vedic astrology " > > is > > > > > that you, > > > > > the head-cum-founder- cum-owner of the group of " Vedic- > > astrology " > > > > > () > > > > > will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only because you > > > > are a > > > > > " Vedic astrologer " whereas actually, as per all the shastras by > > > > which > > > > > you > > > > > and your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on > > July > > > > 24! > > > > > Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating Pitra- > > > > > Amavasya on > > > > > the day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period > > which is > > > > > actually > > > > > suitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages during > > > > > actual > > > > > pitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will > > > > continue > > > > > to > > > > > take place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologers- and > > thereby > > > > the > > > > > whole > > > > > of Hindu community--- only because you believe in Mesha etc. > > Rashis- > > > > -- > > > > > whether > > > > > the so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire > > that > > > > the > > > > > rashi > > > > > based hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known as " Vedic > > > > > astrology " ! > > > > > > > > > > When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in " Vedic- > > astrology > > > > > () " > > > > > forum, you just summarily banned me from that group on the > > > > > recommendation of > > > > > some Western " Vedic astrologer " who was finding it difficult to > > > > > market his > > > > > trinkets through your forum after reading my arguments! > > > > > > > > > > However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join > > > > > > > > > > http://groups. / group/HinduCalen dar > > > > > > > > > > forum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu community > > is > > > > > being > > > > > taken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the festivals on > > > > > wrong days > > > > > by " Vedic astrologers " just to make a fast buck or gain > > > > > some " reputation " . > > > > > You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum > > without > > > > > any > > > > > restrictions since the posts to that forum are not moderated at > > > > all! > > > > > > > > > > I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some people, > > > > > including > > > > > you, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what intrigues me is your > > > > > silence and > > > > > the silence of other scholars about the various dates of birth > > of > > > > > Bhagwan > > > > > Rama according to " Vedic astrologers " ! Tfshey say He incarnated > > > > > anywhere > > > > > between 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is supposed > > to > > > > be > > > > > hundreds of thousands of years old! Even a " his holiness of the > > art > > > > > of > > > > > something " has " confirmed " (sic!) that the date of birth of > > Bhagwan > > > > > Ram > > > > > was/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared by an > > > > > Income Tax > > > > > Commissioner for that date! > > > > > > > > > > Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing stock > > of > > > > the > > > > > entire > > > > > Hindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki Ramayana, > > on > > > > > the basis > > > > > of which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on January > > 14, > > > > > 5114 BCE > > > > > as per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000 > > years? > > > > > These > > > > > jyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well! > > > > > > > > > > In any case, predictive astrologers are requested that if > > predictive > > > > > gimmicks are a necessary evil for them and if they cannot > > survive > > > > > without > > > > > them just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, these > > > > > jyotishis must > > > > > at least leave the Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke > > their > > > > > filthy > > > > > nose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals and > > > > > muhurtas! Let > > > > > them go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or > > Maloo > > > > > will be > > > > > the PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas-- - but > > let > > > > > them just > > > > > step out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a > > > > > premonition that > > > > > they will not do so because whenever any seminar or conference > > is > > > > held > > > > > regarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably > > always > > > > > attended > > > > > by and presided over by " Vedic astrologers " with the result > > that we > > > > > are > > > > > always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals as > > > > advised > > > > > by > > > > > Lahiri-walas instead of the shastras! > > > > > > > > > > It thus goes without saying that I will have to continue > > my " Dharma- > > > > > yudha " > > > > > against " Vedic astrology " for streamlining the Hindu calendar--- > > > > > because the > > > > > real Vedic calendar and predictive gimmicks cannot exist side by > > > > side > > > > > in the > > > > > real Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite of > > the > > > > > fact that > > > > > I have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I > > > > know " yato > > > > > dharmas tato jayah " ! > > > > > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web > > post > > > > > Messages in this topic (4) > > > > > 1b. > > > > > > > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > Posted by: " Phanindar pb " pbphanindar@ pbphanindar > > > > > Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:09 am (PDT) > > > > > Dear AKK > > > > > Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for > > mumdane > > > > predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know the > > UNITY > > > > IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to continue > > ur > > > > DHARMA YUDDAM!Á However, predictive astrology based on Prasna > > Bhagha > > > > paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in > > answering > > > > the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, > > > > Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info > > > > > With best wishes > > > > > > > > > > P.B.Phanindar > > > > > Chartered Accountant > > > > > 99893 99195 > > > > > 98662 21340 > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> > > > > > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " -- -the > > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " > > <jyotirved@ ..> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji, > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic > > astrology " - > > > > the > > > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by > > you > > > > in > > > > > July > > > > > 2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008! > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge of " Vedic > > > > > astrologers " > > > > > about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why > > they > > > > call > > > > > themselves " Vedic astrologers " ! They base their claims of > > > > astrology > > > > > being > > > > > an " anga " of the Vedas because there is a " Vedanga " > > named " Vedanga > > > > > Jyotisha " ! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts! > > > > > > > > > > " Vedanga Jyotisha " is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th century > > BCE > > > > > compiled > > > > > in Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of calculating mean > > > > > tithi and > > > > > nakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the four > > > > > cardinal > > > > > points besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months! > > > > > > > > > > It does not mention anything even by mistake about any planets > > like > > > > > Budha, > > > > > Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, Vrisha > > > > etc. > > > > > Rashis! > > > > > > > > > > Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology > > > > just > > > > > because there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even know > > > > ABC > > > > > of > > > > > their own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some > > > > > overseas " Vamadevas " > > > > > are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and the > > > > > Vedangas > > > > > themselves first and then enter into discussions on such topics- > > -- > > > > > lest they > > > > > put on public display their lack of knowledge of their own > > shastras > > > > > otherwise! > > > > > > > > > > Here is a challenge to all the " Vedic astrologers " the world > > over: > > > > > pl. > > > > > quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga > > > > > Jyotisha or > > > > > the Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that > > matter, > > > > > the so > > > > > called Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, Vrisha > > etc. > > > > > Rashis > > > > > even by mistake! > > > > > > > > > > We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta either > > > > prior > > > > > to the > > > > > Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika! > > > > > > > > > > We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets > > either > > > > in > > > > > any of > > > > > the Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to the > > Surya > > > > > Sidhatna of Maya the mlechha! > > > > > > > > > > Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. > > > > Rashis > > > > > in the > > > > > Mahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also > > > > > nakshatras times > > > > > without number! > > > > > > > > > > Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic > > > > > astrology is > > > > > taking the Hindu community for a ride! > > > > > > > > > > We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, > > Shani > > > > > etc. > > > > > planets in the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana- > > walas, > > > > all > > > > > the > > > > > puranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of > > Vernal > > > > > Equinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar Sankanti > > as the > > > > > Uttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year > > and > > > > so > > > > > on! > > > > > That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya > > > > Sidhanta > > > > > where > > > > > Makar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It > > > > > definitely > > > > > leads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc. > > Rashis > > > > > had been > > > > > imported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then > > later > > > > > incorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu " sishyas of > > > > > Varahamihira " . > > > > > > > > > > Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge for > > all > > > > the > > > > > Vedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world over! > > Let > > > > > them > > > > > quote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or Shastra > > that > > > > has > > > > > advised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on any > > plan! > > > > > On the > > > > > other hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that > > > > > any " nakshatra > > > > > soochi-brahman " must be treated as a chandala. That is exactly > > > > > contrary to > > > > > what Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita " Yavanas (like > > > > Maya > > > > > of the > > > > > Surya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are > > > > mlechhas > > > > > but > > > > > because they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis " .! > > > > > > > > > > Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the > > > > sidhantas > > > > > and > > > > > karna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the > > mlechha to > > > > > Graha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong > > orbital > > > > > elements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred > > years > > > > > back, > > > > > i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, panchangas > > in > > > > > Bharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works i.e. > > > > > sidhantas > > > > > and karna-granthas! That means that even those panchangas were > > > > > absolutely > > > > > wrong! And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong > > > > panchangas > > > > > till a > > > > > few decades back in India! What is most surprising is > > that " Vedic > > > > > astrologers " are shouting from housetops that our ancestors > > right > > > > from > > > > > Varahamihira to " my grandpa " made correct predictions and that > > is > > > > why > > > > > Hindu > > > > > astrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other > > > > astrology > > > > > the > > > > > world over! > > > > > > > > > > Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was > > > > actually > > > > > thus > > > > > based on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we > > claim > > > > > that our > > > > > " ancestors " made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU ASTROLOGY > > > > > (KNOWN AS > > > > > VEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS " THE ART (OR IS IT > > > > THE 'SCIENCE'?) > > > > > OF > > > > > MAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA " > > > > > > > > > > Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that? > > > > > > > > > > Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no astrologer > > has > > > > > till > > > > > date predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!) > > would > > > > > take > > > > > place where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that your > > > > > namesake > > > > > late P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even > > hinted > > > > > that > > > > > Shri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More than a > > > > > decade > > > > > back, the Congress I had been written off by the " greatest Vedic > > > > > astrologer > > > > > of the twentieth century " in his Astrological Magazine and had > > > > > advised Smti. > > > > > Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! The > > > > editor > > > > > of > > > > > BABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA government > > would > > > > > not last > > > > > beyond more than six months after taking over the reins and it > > is > > > > > learnt > > > > > that on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even > > started > > > > > making > > > > > preparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around > > > > September > > > > > 2004! > > > > > They are, however, still waiting for that prediction to > > materialize > > > > > whereas > > > > > in the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's " is not keeping good health " -- > > - > > > > > something > > > > > which no jyotishi had " foreseen " . > > > > > > > > > > That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, does > > not > > > > > know even > > > > > his time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed that > > > > > he/she had > > > > > predicted that " Singh would be the king " . > > > > > > > > > > That also reminds me that the " greatest Vedic astrologer of the > > > > > twentieth > > > > > century " had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture on > > > > January > > > > > 3 of > > > > > the ensuing year on " Astrology as an aid to the diagnosis of > > heart > > > > > attacks " > > > > > but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of " Cardiac > > arrest " -- > > > > - > > > > > to > > > > > delivering that " astrologically planned " lecture! > > > > > > > > > > His " Notable Horoscopes " gives the most incorrect planetary > > > > > longitudes of > > > > > all the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has made > > > > correct > > > > > " assessments " /predictions of all the charts in that work! That > > is > > > > > why I say > > > > > " Vedic astrologers can make correct predictions only from > > incorrect > > > > > data " . > > > > > > > > > > If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about themselves > > > > > correctly, > > > > > how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else > > properly? > > > > > > > > > > What is most damaging for these " Vedic astrologers " is the fact > > > > that > > > > > in > > > > > spite of their claims that they have been practicing the so > > called > > > > > nirayana > > > > > astrology at least over the last seven thousand years, (right > > from > > > > > the Vedic > > > > > times!) they are still unable to decide as to which ayanamsha, > > if > > > > > any, is > > > > > the correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen > > > > > ayanamshas like > > > > > Lahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari, > > Chopra, > > > > > Surya > > > > > Sidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even " zero " ayanamsha going around-- > > - > > > > each > > > > > claiming to give the maximum correct results! What they fail to > > > > > understand > > > > > that if any ayanamsha is correct, all the rest are incorrect! > > All > > > > of > > > > > them > > > > > can never be correct, though all of them can simultaneously be > > > > wrong! > > > > > > > > > > These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that astrological > > > > > rashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their > > > > > imagination since > > > > > the Rashis have no existence actually/astronomic ally and that > > is > > > > why > > > > > we find > > > > > hundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat > > twelve > > > > > equal > > > > > segments/compartmen ts/divisions astronomically and that is why > > > > > whether it is > > > > > JPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give planetary > > > > > longitudes > > > > > in terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical works > > but > > > > > just the > > > > > longitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees! > > > > > > > > > > It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were > > taken as > > > > > rashis > > > > > (astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what was > > > > > imported into > > > > > India! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana > > rashis > > > > do > > > > > not > > > > > exist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy or > > > > > confusion > > > > > about sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist at all! It is > > thus a > > > > > confusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West! > > > > > > > > > > The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike the > > fake > > > > > Vamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus pocus > > > > and > > > > > they > > > > > did not need any astrological Rashis thus! The Vedic seers named > > > > the > > > > > Vedic > > > > > months just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons and > > to > > > > > four > > > > > cardinal points----i. e. the two Equinoxes and two Solstices! > > It is > > > > a > > > > > fallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so > > called > > > > > Sayana > > > > > or the so called nirayana and that is why we are all > > celebrating our > > > > > festivals and muhurtas on wrong days! > > > > > > > > > > The most glaring example of the " benefits of 'Vedic astrology " > > is > > > > > that you, > > > > > the head-cum-founder- cum-owner of the group of " Vedic- > > astrology " > > > > > () > > > > > will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only because you > > > > are a > > > > > " Vedic astrologer " whereas actually, as per all the shastras by > > > > which > > > > > you > > > > > and your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on > > July > > > > 24! > > > > > Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating Pitra- > > > > > Amavasya on > > > > > the day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period > > which is > > > > > actually > > > > > suitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages during > > > > > actual > > > > > pitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will > > > > continue > > > > > to > > > > > take place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologers- and > > thereby > > > > the > > > > > whole > > > > > of Hindu community--- only because you believe in Mesha etc. > > Rashis- > > > > -- > > > > > whether > > > > > the so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire > > that > > > > the > > > > > rashi > > > > > based hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known as " Vedic > > > > > astrology " ! > > > > > > > > > > When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in " Vedic- > > astrology > > > > > () " > > > > > forum, you just summarily banned me from that group on the > > > > > recommendation of > > > > > some Western " Vedic astrologer " who was finding it difficult to > > > > > market his > > > > > trinkets through your forum after reading my arguments! > > > > > > > > > > However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join > > > > > > > > > > http://groups. / group/HinduCalen dar > > > > > > > > > > forum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu community > > is > > > > > being > > > > > taken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the festivals on > > > > > wrong days > > > > > by " Vedic astrologers " just to make a fast buck or gain > > > > > some " reputation " . > > > > > You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum > > without > > > > > any > > > > > restrictions since the posts to that forum are not moderated at > > > > all! > > > > > > > > > > I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some people, > > > > > including > > > > > you, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what intrigues me is your > > > > > silence and > > > > > the silence of other scholars about the various dates of birth > > of > > > > > Bhagwan > > > > > Rama according to " Vedic astrologers " ! Tfshey say He incarnated > > > > > anywhere > > > > > between 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is supposed > > to > > > > be > > > > > hundreds of thousands of years old! Even a " his holiness of the > > art > > > > > of > > > > > something " has " confirmed " (sic!) that the date of birth of > > Bhagwan > > > > > Ram > > > > > was/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared by an > > > > > Income Tax > > > > > Commissioner for that date! > > > > > > > > > > Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing stock > > of > > > > the > > > > > entire > > > > > Hindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki Ramayana, > > on > > > > > the basis > > > > > of which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on January > > 14, > > > > > 5114 BCE > > > > > as per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000 > > years? > > > > > These > > > > > jyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well! > > > > > > > > > > In any case, predictive astrologers are requested that if > > predictive > > > > > gimmicks are a necessary evil for them and if they cannot > > survive > > > > > without > > > > > them just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, these > > > > > jyotishis must > > > > > at least leave the Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke > > their > > > > > filthy > > > > > nose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals and > > > > > muhurtas! Let > > > > > them go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or > > Maloo > > > > > will be > > > > > the PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas-- - but > > let > > > > > them just > > > > > step out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a > > > > > premonition that > > > > > they will not do so because whenever any seminar or conference > > is > > > > held > > > > > regarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably > > always > > > > > attended > > > > > by and presided over by " Vedic astrologers " with the result > > that we > > > > > are > > > > > always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals as > > > > advised > > > > > by > > > > > Lahiri-walas instead of the shastras! > > > > > > > > > > It thus goes without saying that I will have to continue > > my " Dharma- > > > > > yudha " > > > > > against " Vedic astrology " for streamlining the Hindu calendar--- > > > > > because the > > > > > real Vedic calendar and predictive gimmicks cannot exist side by > > > > side > > > > > in the > > > > > real Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite of > > the > > > > > fact that > > > > > I have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I > > > > know " yato > > > > > dharmas tato jayah " ! > > > > > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web > > post > > > > > Messages in this topic (4) > > > > > 1c. > > > > > > > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > Posted by: " Avtar Krishen Kaul " jyotirved@ a_krishen > > > > > Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:10 am (PDT) > > > > > Shri P. B. Phaninderji, > > > > > Nmaskar! > > > > > <astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY IN DIVERSITY if > > > > only > > > > > u care to observe! > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you are confusing astrology with > > > > > astronomy/consmolog y/cosmogeny! > > > > > > > > > > <However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha paddathi > > > > would > > > > > certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the > > specific > > > > > question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras > > etc.,> > > > > > > > > > > What is " Prasna Bhagha paddathi " which works without rashis and > > > > > nakshatras etc.? I am hearing about it for the first time. > > > > > Regards, > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > , Phanindar pb > > > > > <pbphanindar@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear AKK > > > > > > Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for > > mumdane > > > > > predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know the > > UNITY > > > > > IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to > > continue > > > > ur > > > > > DHARMA YUDDAM!? However, predictive astrology based on Prasna > > > > Bhagha > > > > > paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in > > > > answering > > > > > the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, > > > > > Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info > > > > > > With best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > P.B.Phanindar > > > > > > Chartered Accountant > > > > > > 99893 99195 > > > > > > 98662 21340 > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..> > > > > > > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " -- - the > > > > greatest > > > > > fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " > > > > <jyotirved@ ..> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic > > > > astrology " - > > > > > the > > > > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web > > post > > > > > Messages in this topic (4) > > > > > 1d. > > > > > > > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > Posted by: " Phanindar pb " pbphanindar@ pbphanindar > > > > > Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:37 am (PDT) > > > > > Dear AKK > > > > > There is no confusion whatsoever in my mind when I said that > > > > through Astrology we can achieve Unity in diversity. We are able > > to > > > > understand oneness of this universe through the science of > > astrology > > > > to that extent it is fine! the only problem is applying this > > > > knowledge 4 mundane and reducing it to fortune telling to the > > > > individual level only has brought disrespect to the science!Á The > > is > > > > always perfect however, the scientist can always go wrong! > > > > > Regarding PBP it is based on Prasna sastra of Kalidasa > > synthesysed > > > > by KP and PBP! > > > > > > > > > > P.B.Phanindar > > > > > Chartered Accountant > > > > > 99893 99195 > > > > > 98662 21340 > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> > > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " -- -the > > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 9:40 PM > > > > > > > > > > Shri P. B. Phaninderji, > > > > > Nmaskar! > > > > > <astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY IN DIVERSITY if > > > > only > > > > > u care to observe! > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you are confusing astrology with > > > > > astronomy/consmolog y/cosmogeny! > > > > > > > > > > <However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha paddathi > > > > would > > > > > certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the > > specific > > > > > question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras > > etc.,> > > > > > > > > > > What is " Prasna Bhagha paddathi " which works without rashis and > > > > > nakshatras etc.? I am hearing about it for the first time. > > > > > Regards, > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > , Phanindar pb > > > > > <pbphanindar@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear AKK > > > > > > Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for > > mumdane > > > > > predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know the > > UNITY > > > > > IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to > > continue > > > > ur > > > > > DHARMA YUDDAM!? However, predictive astrology based on Prasna > > > > Bhagha > > > > > paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in > > > > answering > > > > > the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, > > > > > Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info > > > > > > With best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > P.B.Phanindar > > > > > > Chartered Accountant > > > > > > 99893 99195 > > > > > > 98662 21340 > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..> > > > > > > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " -- - the > > > > greatest > > > > > fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " > > > > <jyotirved@ ..> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic > > > > astrology " - > > > > > the > > > > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web > > post > > > > > Messages in this topic (4) > > > > > > > > > > 2a. > > > > > > > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM > > > > > Posted by: " Phanindar pb " pbphanindar@ pbphanindar > > > > > Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:45 am (PDT) > > > > > Dear Mr. Dilip > > > > > Please pray ur ista deivam( Your favourite God) and frame only > > one > > > > question about only one problem at a time with a specific question > > > > and a time frame then note the question time of writing! R u from > > > > HYD? otherwise specify the place where u r writing the question > > then > > > > pray once again ur fav. god and write down a below 250 i.e. > > between 1 > > > > to 249 both numbers inclusive! note down that time again The > > number u > > > > r choosing should not be ur lucky or fav.number It should flash > > in ur > > > > mind when ur urge to know a particular problem is optimum! > > similarly > > > > again pray and write a number between 1 to 108 (both inclusive) > > note > > > > down that time again as per ur watch! Once again for the last time > > > > write down a number between 1 to 7 ( both inclusive) again note > > that > > > > time and pass it on!! Pl. remember oly one specific question only > > at > > > > a time! The Divine direction would help u in solving ur problem! > > > > > All the very best! > > > > > > > > > > P.B.Phanindar > > > > > Chartered Accountant > > > > > 99893 99195 > > > > > 98662 21340 > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co. in> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co. in> > > > > > FAMILY PROBLEM > > > > > > > > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 9:54 AM > > > > > > > > > > Respected Members, > > > > > > > > > > Á Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > My details are: Date of Birth- 21-04-1971, Time: 11.55 PM, > > Place: > > > > Dhanbad (Bihar). > > > > > > > > > > My wifes date of birth: 08-06-1981, Time: 8. 20 PM. Place: > > Rourkela > > > > (Orissa) > > > > > > > > > > Sir, I have been facing constant family tension since my > > marriage > > > > on 25-02-2005. I live in a joint family with my wife, daughter, > > > > father , mother & two un married sisters. There is daily tension > > > > between two of us due to some reason or the other. > > > > > > > > > > I would like to request youÁ to pl. guide me regarding the > > above. I > > > > would like to know when will this problem stop. Will I be able to > > > > lead a peaceful life with all family members ever. Is there any > > > > chance of seperation between both of us. What should be my present > > > > action to minimise the ill effect. > > > > > > > > > > I will be very thankful if you can pl. answer the above > > questions. > > > > > > > > > > I am in a very bad mental state. Pl. help me. > > > > > > > > > > Thanking U all......... ......... ... Dilip. > > > > > > > > > > Connect with friends all over the world. Get India > > Messenger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web > > post > > > > > Messages in this topic (5) > > > > > 2b. > > > > > > > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM > > > > > Posted by: " dipika blr " blr.aspirant@ blraspirant > > > > > Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:41 pm (PDT) > > > > > Dear Dilip ji, > > > > > > > > > > Please visit a marriage counselor (family counseling /individual > > > > counseling) > > > > > will help you immensely. > > > > > > > > > > ÒĦÒÄÄÒÅîÒÄÐÒÄÏÒÅúÒIJ ÒÄøÒÄÐÒÄÄÒÅú > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 9:54 AM, dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ > > > > .co. in>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > > > My details are: Date of Birth- 21-04-1971, Time: 11.55 PM, > > Place: > > > > Dhanbad > > > > > > (Bihar). > > > > > > > > > > > > My wifes date of birth: 08-06-1981, Time: 8. 20 PM. Place: > > > > Rourkela > > > > > > (Orissa) > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, I have been facing constant family tension since my > > marriage > > > > on > > > > > > 25-02-2005. I live in a joint family with my wife, daughter, > > > > father , mother > > > > > > & two un married sisters. There is daily tension between two > > of > > > > us due to > > > > > > some reason or the other. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to request you to pl. guide me regarding the > > above. > > > > I would > > > > > > like to know when will this problem stop. Will I be able to > > lead > > > > a peaceful > > > > > > life with all family members ever. Is there any chance of > > > > seperation between > > > > > > both of us. What should be my present action to minimise the > > ill > > > > effect. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will be very thankful if you can pl. answer the above > > questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am in a very bad mental state. Pl. help me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanking U all......... ......... ... Dilip. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- > > > > > > Connect with friends all over the world. Get India > > > > Messenger.<http://in.rd. / tagline_messenge > > > > r_1/*http: //in.messenger. / ?wm=n/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web > > post > > > > > Messages in this topic (5) > > > > > 2c. > > > > > > > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM > > > > > Posted by: " dipika blr " blr.aspirant@ blraspirant > > > > > Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:46 pm (PDT) > > > > > Visit this site http://happycouples .in/ and contact the subject > > > > expert. > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 7:15 PM, Phanindar pb <pbphanindar@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Dilip > > > > > > Please pray ur ista deivam( Your favourite God) and frame only > > > > one question > > > > > > about only one problem at a time with a specific question and > > a > > > > time frame > > > > > > then note the question time of writing! R u from HYD? > > otherwise > > > > specify the > > > > > > place where u r writing the question then pray once again ur > > fav. > > > > god and > > > > > > write down a below 250 i.e. between 1 to 249 both numbers > > > > inclusive! note > > > > > > down that time again The number u r choosing should not be ur > > > > lucky or > > > > > > fav.number It should flash in ur mind when ur urge to know a > > > > particular > > > > > > problem is optimum! similarly again pray and write a number > > > > between 1 to 108 > > > > > > (both inclusive) note down that time again as per ur watch! > > Once > > > > again for > > > > > > the last time write down a number between 1 to 7 ( both > > > > inclusive) again > > > > > > note that time and pass it on!! Pl. remember oly one specific > > > > question only > > > > > > at a time! The Divine direction would help u in solving ur > > > > problem! > > > > > > All the very best! > > > > > > > > > > > > P.B.Phanindar > > > > > > Chartered Accountant > > > > > > 99893 99195 > > > > > > 98662 21340 > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On *Fri, 8/22/08, dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co. > > > > in>* wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co. in> > > > > > > FAMILY PROBLEM > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 9:54 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > > > My details are: Date of Birth- 21-04-1971, Time: 11.55 PM, > > Place: > > > > Dhanbad > > > > > > (Bihar). > > > > > > > > > > > > My wifes date of birth: 08-06-1981, Time: 8. 20 PM. Place: > > > > Rourkela > > > > > > (Orissa) > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, I have been facing constant family tension since my > > marriage > > > > on > > > > > > 25-02-2005. I live in a joint family with my wife, daughter, > > > > father , mother > > > > > > & two un married sisters. There is daily tension between two > > of > > > > us due to > > > > > > some reason or the other. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to request you to pl. guide me regarding the > > above. > > > > I would > > > > > > like to know when will this problem stop. Will I be able to > > lead > > > > a peaceful > > > > > > life with all family members ever. Is there any chance of > > > > seperation between > > > > > > both of us. What should be my present action to minimise the > > ill > > > > effect. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will be very thankful if you can pl. answer the above > > questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am in a very bad mental state. Pl. help me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanking U all......... ......... ... Dilip. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- > > > > > > Connect with friends all over the world. Get India > > > > Messenger.<http://in.rd. / tagline_messenge > > > > r_1/*http: //in.messenger. / ?wm=n/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web > > post > > > > > Messages in this topic (5) > > > > > 2d. > > > > > > > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM > > > > > Posted by: " dilip mukherjee " dilip.12345@ dilip.12345 > > > > > Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:31 pm (PDT) > > > > > Phanindar Ji Pranam, > > > > > Á > > > > > ÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁÁ As directed by you the details are as > > > > follows:- > > > > > Á > > > > > 1) Question:- When will the problems in my family life end? ÁÁ > > (Time > > > > 11.01 AM) > > > > > ÁÁÁ I am writing this question from Rourkela, Orissa. > > > > > Á > > > > > 2) Number below 250: 239Á (Time 11.04 AM) > > > > > Á > > > > > 3) Number between 1 & 108: 92Á (Time 11.05 AM) > > > > > Á > > > > > 4) Number between 1 to 7: 5 (Time 11.06 AM) > > > > > Á > > > > > Á > > > > > Sir, hope the above is as per your direction. > > > > > Á > > > > > I am waiting egerly to receive a reply from you. > > > > > Á > > > > > DILIP. > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 22/8/08, Phanindar pb <pbphanindar@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Phanindar pb <pbphanindar@ > > > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM > > > > > > > > > > Friday, 22 August, 2008, 7:15 PM > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Dilip > > > > > Please pray ur ista deivam( Your favourite God) and frame only > > one > > > > question about only one problem at a time with a specific question > > > > and a time frame then note the question time of writing! R u from > > > > HYD? otherwise specify the place where u r writing the question > > then > > > > pray once again ur fav. god and write down a below 250 i.e. > > between 1 > > > > to 249 both numbers inclusive! note down that time again The > > number u > > > > r choosing should not be ur lucky or fav.number It should flash > > in ur > > > > mind when ur urge to know a particular problem is optimum! > > similarly > > > > again pray and write a number between 1 to 108 (both inclusive) > > note > > > > down that time again as per ur watch! Once again for the last time > > > > write down a number between 1 to 7 ( both inclusive) again note > > that > > > > time and pass it on!! Pl. remember oly one specific question only > > at > > > > a time! The Divine direction would help u in solving ur problem! > > > > > All the very best! > > > > > > > > > > P.B.Phanindar > > > > > Chartered Accountant > > > > > 99893 99195 > > > > > 98662 21340 > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co. in> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co. in> > > > > > FAMILY PROBLEM > > > > > > > > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 9:54 AM > > > > > > > > > > Respected Members, > > > > > > > > > > Á Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > My details are: Date of Birth- 21-04-1971, Time: 11.55 PM, > > Place: > > > > Dhanbad (Bihar). > > > > > > > > > > My wifes date of birth: 08-06-1981, Time: 8. 20 PM. Place: > > Rourkela > > > > (Orissa) > > > > > > > > > > Sir, I have been facing constant family tension since my > > marriage > > > > on 25-02-2005. I live in a joint family with my wife, daughter, > > > > father , mother & two un married sisters. There is daily tension > > > > between two of us due to some reason or the other. > > > > > > > > > > I would like to request youÁ to pl. guide me regarding the > > above. I > > > > would like to know when will this problem stop. Will I be able to > > > > lead a peaceful life with all family members ever. Is there any > > > > chance of seperation between both of us. What should be my present > > > > action to minimise the ill effect. > > > > > > > > > > I will be very thankful if you can pl. answer the above > > questions. > > > > > > > > > > I am in a very bad mental state. Pl. help me. > > > > > > > > > > Thanking U all......... ......... ... Dilip. > > > > > > > > > > Connect with friends all over the world. Get India > > > > Messenger. > > > > > > > > > > Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now, on > > http://help. > > > > / l/in// mail/mail/ tools/tools- 08.html/ > > > > > > > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web > > post > > > > > Messages in this topic (5) > > > > > > > > > > 3a. > > > > > > > > > > Fwd: [HinduCalendar] " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on > > the > > > > V > > > > > Posted by: " dipika blr " blr.aspirant@ blraspirant > > > > > Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:36 pm (PDT) > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > > dipika blr > > > > > Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 1:05 AM > > > > > Re: [HinduCalendar] " Vedic astrology " -- -the greatest > > > > fraud on the > > > > > Vedas! > > > > > HinduCalendar > > > > > Cc: pvr108 > > > > > > > > > > Dear Avtar ji, > > > > > > > > > > Do you support Sayana based astrology? This was claimed by one > > of > > > > > Astrologers who went through your article on > > > > > http://www.aryasama j.org/eng_ art/do_celebrate _in_time. htm > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > Dipika > > > > > > > > > > ÒĦÒÄÄÒÅîÒÄÐÒÄÏÒÅúÒIJ ÒÄøÒÄÐÒÄÄÒÅú > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------- -- - > > > > > -satyameva jayate naanritam > > > > > satyena pantha vitato devayanah > > > > > yenaa kramantyarishayo hyaaptakaamaa > > > > > yatra tat satyasya paramam nidhaanam > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 5:42 PM, jyotirved <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic > > > > astrology " -the > > > > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by > > > > you in July > > > > > > 2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge of " Vedic > > > > astrologers " > > > > > > about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why > > they > > > > call > > > > > > themselves " Vedic astrologers " ! They base their claims of > > > > astrology being > > > > > > an " anga " of the Vedas because there is a " Vedanga " > > named " Vedanga > > > > > > Jyotisha " ! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Vedanga Jyotisha " is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th > > century > > > > BCE > > > > > > compiled in Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of > > > > calculating mean > > > > > > tithi and nakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya > > viz. > > > > the four > > > > > > cardinal points besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months! > > > > > > > > > > > > It does not mention anything even by mistake about any planets > > > > like Budha, > > > > > > Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, > > Vrisha > > > > etc. Rashis! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic > > astrology > > > > just > > > > > > because there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even > > know > > > > ABC of > > > > > > their own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some > > > > overseas " Vamadevas " > > > > > > are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and the > > > > Vedangas > > > > > > themselves first and then enter into discussions on such > > topics--- > > > > lest > > > > > > they put on public display their lack of knowledge of their > > own > > > > shastras > > > > > > otherwise! > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is a challenge to all the " Vedic astrologers " the world > > > > over: pl. > > > > > > quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the > > Vedanga > > > > Jyotisha or > > > > > > the Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that > > > > matter, the so > > > > > > called Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, Vrisha > > > > etc. Rashis > > > > > > even by mistake! > > > > > > > > > > > > We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta > > either > > > > prior to > > > > > > the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the > > Panchasidhantika! > > > > > > > > > > > > We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets > > > > either in any > > > > > > of the Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to > > the > > > > Surya > > > > > > Sidhatna of Maya the mlechha! > > > > > > > > > > > > Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. > > > > Rashis in > > > > > > the Mahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and > > also > > > > nakshatras > > > > > > times without number! > > > > > > > > > > > > Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic > > > > astrology is > > > > > > taking the Hindu community for a ride! > > > > > > > > > > > > We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, > > Shani > > > > etc. > > > > > > planets in the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana- > > walas, > > > > all the > > > > > > puranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of > > Vernal > > > > > > Equinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar Sankanti > > as > > > > the > > > > > > Uttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year > > and > > > > so on! > > > > > > That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya > > > > Sidhanta where > > > > > > Makar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It > > > > definitely > > > > > > leads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc. > > > > Rashis had been > > > > > > imported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then > > later > > > > > > incorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu " sishyas of > > > > Varahamihira " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge for > > > > all the > > > > > > Vedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world over! > > > > Let them > > > > > > quote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or Shastra > > > > that has > > > > > > advised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on any > > > > plan! On the > > > > > > other hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that > > > > any " nakshatra > > > > > > soochi-brahman " must be treated as a chandala. That is exactly > > > > contrary to > > > > > > what Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita " Yavanas > > (like > > > > Maya of the > > > > > > Surya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are > > > > mlechhas but > > > > > > because they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis " .! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the > > > > sidhantas and > > > > > > karna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the > > mlechha > > > > to > > > > > > Graha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong > > > > orbital > > > > > > elements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred > > years > > > > back, > > > > > > i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, > > panchangas in > > > > > > Bharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works > > i.e. > > > > sidhantas > > > > > > and karna-granthas! That means that even those panchangas were > > > > absolutely > > > > > > wrong! And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong > > > > panchangas till a > > > > > > few decades back in India! What is most surprising is > > that " Vedic > > > > > > astrologers " are shouting from housetops that our ancestors > > right > > > > from > > > > > > Varahamihira to " my grandpa " made correct predictions and > > that is > > > > why Hindu > > > > > > astrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other > > > > astrology the > > > > > > world over! > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was > > > > actually thus > > > > > > based on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we > > claim > > > > that our > > > > > > " ancestors " made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU > > ASTROLOGY > > > > (KNOWN AS > > > > > > VEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS " THE ART (OR IS IT > > > > THE 'SCIENCE'?) OF > > > > > > MAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA " > > > > > > > > > > > > Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no > > astrologer > > > > has till > > > > > > date predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!) > > > > would take > > > > > > place where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that > > your > > > > namesake > > > > > > late P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even > > > > hinted th > > > > ... > > > > [Message clipped] > > > > > -- > TKP Ghopal > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road, > I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001 > 93666 23444 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Dear Sanat Ji Thank you for a detailed mail. I was in IAF at Maharajpura Airport during 1974-1984.I got married there at CP Colony,Morar and had my B.Com.,and M.Com from JU between 1978 and 1982. My wife's relatives are still in CP Colony though they are also from South.My wife worked in INCOMETAX Gwalior.Now we are all at Salem.TN. Certainly I would like to meet you when I make my next trip to GWL. Coming to the point ,though the principle exist that Rahu -Ketu are intersection points, the ephimeris give the right time of occurance of eclipse,even with a difference of 5 deg. What is their workout,how could they give correct time of eclipse? Kindly send me a copy of your book by vpp to the address given below.I would pay and receive. Let me go thro' before I ask many questions. Thank you. Regards tkp ghopal On 8/29/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote: Dear Ghopal ji,Namaskar,Thanks for your quick reply.I surprised to know that you have studied in JU, Gwalior. Inform some more details about your college, residence, friends, present job etc. I am living in Dal Bazar. I will like to meet you during your next visit to Gwalior. Sh NN Pandey is professional astrologer and busy in ………… JU has started the course on Jyotish some 4 years back at the time of NDA Govt. But it has only 3-4 students since then. I know that Shri Pandey Ji was not a student since then. I don't know from where he has done his doctorate in Jyotish.Now your comment :>>>>>>I am of the feeling if the language is maintained like this many maynot leave the forum.<<<<<<< I am very particular about the language and I think I am maintaining my language. Even then I will appreciate if you point out some msg where I may have slipped. In my welcome note I have mentioned>>>>>>>> this forum is intended to unearth the science of astrology hence interaction is totally academic and may never be taken as personal. Because it is natural that we may have difference of opinion but there must be no personal difference, and try to strongly convince the members with your stand, logic, scientific concept etc., but never use insulting or filthy language, as is being done in many other forums. Thus give regard to get regard for maintaining a healthy academic atmosphere.<<<<<<<However generally I do not forget to mention " Remember that nothing is personal and it is academic discussion " , so that feeling of any member may not hurt. Even then if members are not willing to know and want to continue with their unfounded faith, and prepared to leave the forum without any personal ill-will then what I can do. I always want that every one must interact if they think that astrology is science. Hence I always request members to invite their friends as no permission is required for membership or msg. I hope members will realize the importance of interaction, which is available with the help of science, which was not available to our ancestral.I am also happy that except one/two instances, members are using good language. I have also warned for using filthy language. But problem of filthy language may only arise when members come forward with their stand, but when most of the members are in silence zone so where is the question of good language. Hi Hi.Regarding Sh. AKK and Dipika Ji, I will like to say that though they are not in support of astrology, even then their language is very good. Both are highly qualified. I am reading the msg of Sh AKK since long and I find that he also maintain his language despite very harsh language. Regarding >>>>> I presume that Sun,Moon,Rahu and Ketu must fall in line for a total eclipse.But that wasnot the position last time.Why?<<<<<<<< I will like to say that this is not the position with this eclipse only. I have mentioned (in my book) full cycle of eclipse during 18 years where position of Rahu/ Ketu is not matching with the position of sun and moon. Two examples are also given in my first msg " Astrology a science or myth " . I am again quoting the extract from my msg dated 17-7-8>>>>>>>you will not find any scripture where it was mentioned that eclipse is due to shadow of earth or Moon. You can not even provide the maths behind it. For your kind information Rahu was treated as only reason for eclipse even Ketu was not mentioned anywhere as responsible for eclipse. But due to actual eclipse when Rahu was 180 deg away, there was always confusion about the actual cause of eclipse. But due to imaginary retrograde motion of rahu ketu, eclipse was traced. After scientific concept about the solar system it was initially not accepted but in last 50 years it has been accepted by the society. Thus astrologer also tried to amend and find a new trick to befool the public by claiming that Rahu ketu is intersection point of orbit. But is it mentioned by any sages? NO. Because in their concept Moon was above the Sun then how Moon can create shadow. Thus I have raised a point in my blog that when Rahu Ketu is intersection point of orbit and total solar eclipse is visible, it means Sun and Moon are on the intersection point, and Rahu ketu must be also on the intersection point. <<<<<<Thus you can see that motion and position as is being used by astrologers has nothing to do with the correct position and motion. After analyzing every eclipse I am of the firm opinion that all horoscopes are wrongly showing the position of these important planets, whether it may be KP or Indian or western. I have forwarded my blog " astrology a science or myth " to many astrologers but they are busy in cheating or exploiting general public hence they prefer silence. If you want to see then just ask various questions raised in my blog and find out the answer from the astrologers. As you are members of many forums and active too.Now you can imagine as to when position of Rahu/Ketu is not correct, which are very important planets for prediction. Then how a horoscope is correct or how prediction may be correct or how KP etc. may be correct.If you will go through from my blog sincerely then you will find that every astrological principle is wrong as they were formulated on wrong basics. And for this you have to know the process of making pudding (principles) and have to come out from your earlier stand >>>>>> Why dont you eat the pudding instead of counting the holes in it.<<<<<<<< (your msg 16-7-8)Most of the astrologers of Gwalior (like many other cities) have gone through my book and most of them are not interested in discussion for fear of loosing their business. But some astrologer (local and of other cities) have admitted in their very personal meeting that they are convinced with the contents of the book and have no answer except to follow the system. Now what I can do? Either I may join their band and exploit innocents or keep informing others. I prefer second option.Hope to hear soon.Nothing is personal (except invitation to Gwalior. Hi Hi).Thanks Yours truly,Sanat , " TKP Ghopal " <astrogopalji wrote: >> Dear Sanatji> Thank you for your explanetary and pleasing language.> I am very much fascinated by the knowledge you possess.> Also I am of the feeling if the language is maintained like this many may> not leave the forum.> I am keenly watching the forum and anyone sticking with this like AKK,Dipika> are really knowledgeable.> Anyone shows their angry has reality.> Coming to the point regading rahu-ketu away by 5 degs during last eclipse is> a mistery to me.> Whatever I had gone thro to my little knowledge ( I ve only 11 years of> experiance in astrology,that too kp only,I ve little knowledge about> Parasara-I dont ve " I know everything " kind of attitude) I presume that> Sun,Moon,Rahu and Ketu must fall in line for a total eclipse.But that was> not the position last time.Why? I really dont know.If you can explain I ll> try to understand.Thanking you in anticipation. > There was a time, since planets and sun are proved to be existing phisical> matters,and the study on that can be called as Science.The prediction> offered on the basis of planetary movements are to be considered as Science> of approximation .This used to be discussed in our Association at Salem> inTN,whenever anyone claims that he talks Science.We used to make him> realise that it cannot be tested on lab,so may be, you can call it a > sciennce of approximation.Hence it is not defined as to be a sceince of> approximation either.> > I came across one astrologer by name Pt.Dr.Narendranath Pandey> M.Sc.,Astronomy,Doctorate in Astrology awarded by Jiwaji > University,Gwalior.(His viasiting card gives the above information)His> office is in Naya bazaar,Lashkar opp.to Dr.Kaul Narsing home. > I personally went to meet him in the interest of meeting some astrologer in> Gwalior during my brief visit.Though I saw him I could not ve a meeting with> him since he was unable to offer me an appointment. > Well, I wanted to know ,since you are a Gwaliorian do Jiwaji University> offer Doctorate?> I am keen becuase I was a student of JU way back in 1978-1982.> I shall go thro the file section and come with more queries so that others> also get enlightened in astrology.> Thanks and Regards> tkp ghopal> > > On 8/27/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote:> >> > Dear Ghopal ji, > > Namaskar,> > Thanks for your msg after 24 days. Happy to know that atleast you are> > reading the msgs. You have raised a question :> >> > >>>>>>>>>Everytime some one or the other is getting away from this > > forum> > accusing of bringing discredit to both astrology and Hindu> > religion.<<<<<<<<<<<<> >> > Perhaps you are referring the msg of Sh. Razdan Ji, But you may have> > also gone through my msg dated 6-8-8, wherein I have clarified the> > position. I am again quoting the para :> >> > >>>>>> From which msg you find that I am downgrading astrology. If I> > am informing or asking as to how sign, signlord etc. were formulated> > (refer my first msg / blog " Astrology a science or myth')then it is> > not downgrading, or if I am saying that sign etc. are not in Ved then> > it is not downgrading (you can also refer in length reply of Sh Kaul> > ji), if I am asking as to why Ketu is 5 deg. away at the time of> > total eclipse, when astrologers are claiming that Rahu ketu are > > intersection point of orbits and so on ……… than how you can say I am> > downgrading astrology. If astrologers have no answer then it is their> > fault (though I have hinted below every question and detail is > > available in the book), who are exploiting public by claiming it> > science and have no logical answer.> >> > If you admit and promote the view that astrology (predictive) is not > > science then I will not ask any question. But you, like all> > astrologers have faith on astrology then please do not publicize it> > as a science. You can claim that it is our heritage, it is taken from> > ancestral, it is like God (no pujari of any temple of any religion is> > claiming that existence of God is Science, because business of> > pujaries are roaring but on the other hand business of astrologers > > are always in doldrums hence at one point of time they take shelter> > in faith and at another point of time they claim it as science yet> > another time they claim it as vedang etc….). But if astrologers will> > claim that it is science then I have right to question its validity> > as science that too after putting +35 years in astrology and writing> > two original books. <<<<<<<< > >> > I hope this will clear your question. You have further asked :> >> > >>>>>> you all got Vexed with astrology becoz of some misereable> > failures?!<<<<<<<<<< > >> > Regarding this I have explained in detail as to how I have proceeded> > in the direction of analyzing astrological principles itself. Please> > refer file " Astrology a science or myth " in file section of 1st msg> > of the forum.> >> > I have also asked some questions from you but you have not yet> > answered. Main problem is this. So first of all it must be cleared, I> > repeat it must be cleared that > >> > - Predictive astrology has nothing to do with our religion or> > religious faith.> > - it was not mentioned in any ved or puran that predictive astrology> > is religion hence follow it. > > - If any one think that astrology is religiously supported then he> > must come forward instead of leaving the forum. Leaving the forum> > without discussion it-self shows that they do not know either any > > thing about religion or about astrology.> > - It is time and again claimed that astrology is science. But they> > don't know about the science. Because scientific principles are> > always under test and ready to modify. Thus astrological principles> > must be checked as to how they were formulated (refer astrology a> > science or myth) and so on.> >> > Actually society has a mindset due to ignorance that any question > > about sages is sin. Though Parashar himself wrote in Vishnu Puran> > that Earth is stationary and Sun is one lakh yojan from the Earth and> > Moon is again one lakh yojan from the Sun and so on. I have written> > in detail in my book about every astrological principle as to how all> > principles were formulated around this concept. But when members are> > themselves confused and do not want to read Parashar and following > > 3rd grade books on astrology, whose writer cunningly incorporating> > modern knowledge about the solar system in the name of sages. Then> > what I can do. Actually they are degrading the labour of our sages > > who were inquisitive to know about the universe. Thus agree to absorb> > the knowledge of Greeks too. Actually we are shying to present them> > in old fashioned cloths (knowledge) in modern well dressed society.> > It is like a well educated son, foreign return, highly qualified,> > highly paid, highly regarded etc. (like you – not personally you);> > and his parents may be quite illiterate, in view of modern knowledge,> > but are quite eligible to realize the importance of education, that's> > why they have tried their best with their limited source of income,> > knowledge and so on (like our sages) and give good guidance and > > adviced him (new generations) to get good knowledge (tamso ma> > jyotirgamay) and so on. But when same son was asked about his parent> > by some equally qualified person, then he will shy to say that I am> > son of illiterate parents, who are quite unaware of modern knowledge> > etc. then definitely he will boast and claim that his parents are> > very rich, and they are quite aware of all modern gadgets and they > > are post graduate and so on. So don't you think that by this coverup> > his son is actually undermining the pain, devotion, sanskar etc. of> > his parents (sages) and actually defaming them. > >> > Thus you may have proud on the skill of our sages who were living in> > huts, who were burning the light with rubbing of wood, who were> > gazing sun moon with very inquisitive mind and so on. Because it is> > our heritage and we have acquired modern knowledge on the ABC of our> > sages. What is the harm if we admit that our parents are illiterate> > or our sages were not aware with modern knowledge? > >> > We must have courage to preserve the hut of our ancestral as our> > heritage and on the other hand must be prepared to build modern> > building instead of cheating to say that building was prepared by our> > ancestral.> >> > I think members and general public must be aware as to what is> > factual position and what is polluted information. Only then one can> > know as to what is right and what is wrong. Thus aim of the forum is> > just to inform the factual position and let public or member or> > reader may decide about the correctness. But until members/ public is> > not prepared to hear any thing against so called religion of > > astrology due to fear of sin and transfer in Narak, nothing can be> > done. But I will continue to inform the public about the factual> > position, so that persons who are not governed by his mind and are > > governed by the mass will realize in due course.> >> > I have asked about the following questions from you. But I am still> > waiting the replies.> > - Why Ketu / Rahu is far away from the intersection point of orbit > > during eclipse. As is being claimed by modern astrological books that> > eclipse is due to intersection of orbit. Is it not evident that all> > horoscopes are wrongly showing the position of these important > > planets. All members must ask their astrologer about this and then> > realize the hollow standing of astrologers.> >> > -Your experience about NADI.> >> > I will again like to say that SILENCE OR LEAVING IS NOT THE SOLUTION> > IF YOU HAVE INQUISITIVE MIND. Hence every member must take part in> > active exchange of views and substantiate his stand, for which this> > forum has been formed; (about which you have asked) otherwise there> > are so many forums who are advocating some false myths without> > discussion. They are like `Jyotishi sammelans' (gathering of> > astrologers) where first announcement is like that " every orator may> > take 5-10 minutes and only speak in support of astrology and do not> > talk against the astrology " . If members may have attended then they> > know it. But here we are analyzing the correctness of astrological > > principles in view of modern knowledge.> >> > Some previous discussions have been incorporated in SOA_______ files.> > I am not updating them as members are not interested in discussion,> > because (I am sorry to say) they only have faith on astrology only> > due to misconception that it is religious and moreover they are> > neither inquisitive, nor aware with the religion nor aware with the> > background of predictive astrology except some instant benefit if> > some astrologer may predict some thing about them or astrologer> > members are interested in their publicity and monetary gains. Though> > 99% percent astrologer believes that astrology is correct and do not> > want to hear or analyze it for fear of monetary loss. And 1%> > astrologer though know that prediction may not be correct but still> > following for the monetary benefit. And do not want to be exposed in> > front of members that they are not in a position to reply pointed> > question hence only escape route is either silence or quitting the > > forum. Is it not a strange that since last 5 months I am asking> > astrologers to come forward in support of their stand. But either> > they are silent or leaving the forum for fear of their downgrading > > instead of fear of downgrading of astrology. It is for the innocent> > new members to realize as to how astrologers are not aware with the> > astrology but aware with the technique of extracting the money. > >> > I hope you will not go in long silence and come forward with some> > stand.> >> > Remember that nothing is personal and it is academic discussion for> > the benefit of the innocent members who are just entering in this > > field with a wrong notion that astrology is religious and more then> > science or they can know their future or like this.> >> > Thanks> > Yours truly,> > Sanat > >> > <%40>, > > " TKP Ghopal " > > <astrogopalji@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Mr. AKK> > > I had been reading all the mails atleast for the past 2 months.> > > Everytime some one or the other is getting away from this forum > > accusing of> > > bringing discredit to both astrology and Hindu religion.> > > Your postings are exemplary I can say.> > > The way you asked this gentleman KN Punji that how come he could > > bring 100%> > > result is quite applaudable.> > > Your expolaration and Sanatji 's explanatons are incomparabe.> > > You exhibit a very vast knowledge in astrology. > > > Is that you all got Vexed with astrology becoz of some misereable> > failures?!> > > Though your language and derivations are pretty good I dont> > understand why> > > on the name of heaven you are throwing mud on astrology. > > > Ofcousre most of the people come to astrology the moment they read> > some> > > books and start telling some thing to their near and dear and they> > lift them> > > to an extent that these ppl give accurate predictions. > > > Alas! They claim to have gone to high altitudes in astrology.> > > I know there are astrologers who still claim that the planets are> > Gods and> > > dont even want to believe that they have phisical existance,and > > they (those> > > so called astrologers)pull lot of crowds.> > > What I want to ask you is what is the very idea of this forum?> > > Execpting few of you ,ppl enter and go out atonce becoz of the > > negative (?)> > > attitude of this forum?> > >> > > Regards> > > tkp ghopal> > >> > > On 8/25/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > >> > > > Shir K. N. Punji-ji,> > > > Namaskar!> > > > Many thanks for your post because unless someobdy express some> > view,> > > > we just cannot assess our own views! > > > >> > > > It pains me personally to note that you are pained because of some> > > > points discussed in this forum. IMHO, your " pain " is actually> > > > without any factual foundation! Let me clarify my stand point by> > > > point:> > > >> > > > <I am very pained that some people are holding our relegion and> > the> > > > shashtra in contempt.>> > > > > > > > Could you kindly quote even a single post where any shastra or the> > > > Hindu religion has been held in contempt.> > > >> > > > < I am an astrologer and making accurate predictions not once but> > > > everytime is no coincidence.>> > > >> > > > I am really glad to know that your predictions prove cent per cent> > > > correct! Till date no astrologer has claimed cent-per-cent > > success!> > > > All the top-notch astrologes say that " God only can make cent per> > > > cent correct predictions " . They claim a maximum of seventy per> > cent > > > > success! Yours is thus an achievement which needs certainly to be> > > > lauded. Prior to that, would you kindly answer the following> > points:> > > > 1. For how long have you been in astrology? > > > > 2. What ayanamsha do you use and why?> > > > 3. What books on astrology do you use for predictions and why?> > > > 4. Have you learnt astrology from some institution like Bharatiya> > > > Vidya Bhavan or ICAS etc. or " at the feet of some guru " ? Or is it> > > > that you have mastered the subject just by self-studying!> > > > 5. You claim cent per cent success in your predictions. Are any of> > > > them recorded? Would you kindly let us know as to which> > predictions> > > > they i.e. the recorded ones were/are and where have they been> > > > recorded? > > > > 6. Since what date did your predictions prove cent per cent> > correct?> > > > From the day you started making predeictions or was it in the> > > > " recent past " ? > > > > 7. Do you practise some sidhi or some mantra etc.> > > > Kindly do not treat it as a sort of interrogation but since you> > have> > > > made an exceptional claim, all I want is to satisfy myself. As > > > > already repeated several times, my maternal grandfather could make> > > > cent per cent correct predictions from horoscopes prepared from> > > > Grahalaghava panchangas! But that success was more because of his> > > > selflesness and sidhi than anything else.> > > >> > > > <I find that this forum has been formed to bring discredit to our> > > > great astrologers even of the current time.> > > > > Would you kindly let me know as to which " great astrologer of the> > > > current time " has been discredited and in what manner?> > > > With regards,> > > > AKK > > > >> > > > <% 40>> > <%> > 40>, > > > > kn punj <knpunj@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear ALL> > > > >> > > > > I am very pained that some people are holding our relegion and> > the> > > > shashtra in contempt.> > > > > I am an astrologer and making accurate predictions not once but> > > > everytime is no coincidence.> > > > > I joined this forum to enhance my knowledge but I find that this> > > > forum has been formed to bring discredit to our great astrologers> > > > even of the current time.> > > > > I see no point in being a part of this forum and become a party> > to> > > > some people who name themselves as brahmins ........ .> > > > > GOODBYE.> > > > >> > > > > --- On Sat, 23/8/08,> > <% 40>> > <%> > 40> > > > > < <%40><% > > 40>>> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > <% 40>> > <%> > 40> > > > > < <%40><% > > 40>> > > > >> > > > > Digest Number 119 > > > > > <%40> > > <%> > 40>> > > > > Saturday, 23 August, 2008, 2:48 PM > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Science of Vedic astrology> > > > >> > > > > Messages In This Digest (11 Messages)> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > 1a. > > > > > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul> > > > > 1b.> > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!> > > > Phanindar pb> > > > > 1c.> > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!> > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > 1d.> > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!> > > > Phanindar pb> > > > >> > > > > 2a. > > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM Phanindar pb> > > > > 2b.> > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM dipika blr> > > > > 2c.> > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM dipika blr > > > > > 2d.> > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM dilip mukherjee> > > > >> > > > > 3a.> > > > > Fwd: [HinduCalendar] " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on> > the> > > > V dipika blr> > > > > 3b.> > > > > Re: Fwd: [HinduCalendar] " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud> > on> > > > t Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > >> > > > > 4a.> > > > > Fwd: Re: [Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad] Eclipses and fear psychosis> > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul> > > > > View All Topics | Create New Topic > > > > > Messages> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > 1a.> > > > >> > > > > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > Posted by: " Avtar Krishen Kaul " jyotirved@ a_krishen> > > > > Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:28 am (PDT)> > > > > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " > > <jyotirved@ ..>> > > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,> > > > >> > > > > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic > > astrology " -> > > > the> > > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by> > you> > > > in> > > > > July > > > > > 2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008!> > > > >> > > > > I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge of " Vedic> > > > > astrologers " > > > > > about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why> > they> > > > call> > > > > themselves " Vedic astrologers " ! They base their claims of > > > > astrology> > > > > being> > > > > an " anga " of the Vedas because there is a " Vedanga " > > named " Vedanga> > > > > Jyotisha " ! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts! > > > > >> > > > > " Vedanga Jyotisha " is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th century> > BCE> > > > > compiled> > > > > in Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of calculating mean> > > > > tithi and> > > > > nakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the four> > > > > cardinal> > > > > points besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months! > > > > >> > > > > It does not mention anything even by mistake about any planets> > like> > > > > Budha,> > > > > Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, Vrisha> > > > etc.> > > > > Rashis!> > > > >> > > > > Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology> > > > just > > > > > because there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even know> > > > ABC> > > > > of> > > > > their own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some > > > > > overseas " Vamadevas " > > > > > are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and the> > > > > Vedangas> > > > > themselves first and then enter into discussions on such topics-> > --> > > > > lest they> > > > > put on public display their lack of knowledge of their own> > shastras> > > > > otherwise!> > > > > > > > > > Here is a challenge to all the " Vedic astrologers " the world> > over:> > > > > pl.> > > > > quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga> > > > > Jyotisha or> > > > > the Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that> > matter,> > > > > the so> > > > > called Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, Vrisha> > etc.> > > > > Rashis> > > > > even by mistake!> > > > >> > > > > We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta either> > > > prior> > > > > to the> > > > > Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika!> > > > >> > > > > We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets > > either> > > > in> > > > > any of> > > > > the Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to the> > Surya> > > > > Sidhatna of Maya the mlechha! > > > > >> > > > > Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc.> > > > Rashis> > > > > in the> > > > > Mahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also > > > > > nakshatras times> > > > > without number!> > > > >> > > > > Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic> > > > > astrology is > > > > > taking the Hindu community for a ride!> > > > >> > > > > We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal,> > Shani> > > > > etc. > > > > > planets in the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana-> > walas,> > > > all> > > > > the> > > > > puranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of > > Vernal> > > > > Equinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar Sankanti> > as the> > > > > Uttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year > > and> > > > so> > > > > on!> > > > > That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya> > > > Sidhanta> > > > > where > > > > > Makar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It> > > > > definitely> > > > > leads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc.> > Rashis > > > > > had been> > > > > imported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then> > later> > > > > incorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu " sishyas of > > > > > Varahamihira " .> > > > >> > > > > Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge for> > all> > > > the> > > > > Vedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world over!> > Let> > > > > them> > > > > quote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or Shastra> > that> > > > has> > > > > advised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on any> > plan!> > > > > On the> > > > > other hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that> > > > > any " nakshatra> > > > > soochi-brahman " must be treated as a chandala. That is exactly> > > > > contrary to> > > > > what Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita " Yavanas (like> > > > Maya> > > > > of the> > > > > Surya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are > > > > mlechhas> > > > > but> > > > > because they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis " .!> > > > >> > > > > Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the > > > > sidhantas> > > > > and> > > > > karna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the> > mlechha to> > > > > Graha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong > > orbital> > > > > elements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred> > years> > > > > back,> > > > > i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, panchangas> > in> > > > > Bharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works i.e.> > > > > sidhantas> > > > > and karna-granthas! That means that even those panchangas were> > > > > absolutely> > > > > wrong! And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong> > > > panchangas> > > > > till a> > > > > few decades back in India! What is most surprising is > > that " Vedic> > > > > astrologers " are shouting from housetops that our ancestors> > right> > > > from> > > > > Varahamihira to " my grandpa " made correct predictions and that> > is> > > > why> > > > > Hindu> > > > > astrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other> > > > astrology> > > > > the > > > > > world over!> > > > >> > > > > Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was> > > > actually> > > > > thus > > > > > based on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we> > claim> > > > > that our> > > > > " ancestors " made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU ASTROLOGY> > > > > (KNOWN AS> > > > > VEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS " THE ART (OR IS IT> > > > THE 'SCIENCE'?)> > > > > OF> > > > > MAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA " > > > > >> > > > > Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that?> > > > >> > > > > Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no astrologer > > has> > > > > till> > > > > date predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!)> > would> > > > > take> > > > > place where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that your> > > > > namesake> > > > > late P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even> > hinted> > > > > that> > > > > Shri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More than a> > > > > decade> > > > > back, the Congress I had been written off by the " greatest Vedic> > > > > astrologer> > > > > of the twentieth century " in his Astrological Magazine and had> > > > > advised Smti.> > > > > Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! The> > > > editor> > > > > of> > > > > BABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA government> > would> > > > > not last> > > > > beyond more than six months after taking over the reins and it> > is> > > > > learnt> > > > > that on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even > > started> > > > > making> > > > > preparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around> > > > September> > > > > 2004!> > > > > They are, however, still waiting for that prediction to > > materialize> > > > > whereas> > > > > in the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's " is not keeping good health " --> > -> > > > > something > > > > > which no jyotishi had " foreseen " .> > > > >> > > > > That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, does> > not> > > > > know even > > > > > his time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed that> > > > > he/she had> > > > > predicted that " Singh would be the king " .> > > > > > > > > > That also reminds me that the " greatest Vedic astrologer of the> > > > > twentieth> > > > > century " had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture on> > > > January> > > > > 3 of> > > > > the ensuing year on " Astrology as an aid to the diagnosis of> > heart> > > > > attacks " > > > > > but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of " Cardiac> > arrest " --> > > > -> > > > > to> > > > > delivering that " astrologically planned " lecture! > > > > >> > > > > His " Notable Horoscopes " gives the most incorrect planetary> > > > > longitudes of> > > > > all the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has made> > > > correct> > > > > " assessments " /predictions of all the charts in that work! That> > is> > > > > why I say> > > > > " Vedic astrologers can make correct predictions only from > > incorrect> > > > > data " .> > > > >> > > > > If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about themselves> > > > > correctly, > > > > > how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else> > properly?> > > > >> > > > > What is most damaging for these " Vedic astrologers " is the fact> > > > that> > > > > in> > > > > spite of their claims that they have been practicing the so> > called> > > > > nirayana> > > > > astrology at least over the last seven thousand years, (right> > from> > > > > the Vedic> > > > > times!) they are still unable to decide as to which ayanamsha,> > if> > > > > any, is> > > > > the correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen > > > > > ayanamshas like> > > > > Lahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari,> > Chopra,> > > > > Surya> > > > > Sidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even " zero " ayanamsha going around--> > -> > > > each> > > > > claiming to give the maximum correct results! What they fail to> > > > > understand> > > > > that if any ayanamsha is correct, all the rest are incorrect!> > All> > > > of> > > > > them> > > > > can never be correct, though all of them can simultaneously be> > > > wrong!> > > > > > > > > > These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that astrological> > > > > rashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their> > > > > imagination since > > > > > the Rashis have no existence actually/astronomic ally and that> > is> > > > why> > > > > we find> > > > > hundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat > > twelve> > > > > equal> > > > > segments/compartmen ts/divisions astronomically and that is why> > > > > whether it is> > > > > JPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give planetary> > > > > longitudes> > > > > in terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical works> > but> > > > > just the> > > > > longitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees! > > > > >> > > > > It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were> > taken as> > > > > rashis> > > > > (astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what was> > > > > imported into> > > > > India! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana> > rashis> > > > do> > > > > not> > > > > exist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy or> > > > > confusion> > > > > about sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist at all! It is> > thus a> > > > > confusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West! > > > > >> > > > > The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike the> > fake> > > > > Vamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus pocus> > > > and> > > > > they> > > > > did not need any astrological Rashis thus! The Vedic seers named> > > > the> > > > > Vedic > > > > > months just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons and> > to> > > > > four> > > > > cardinal points----i. e. the two Equinoxes and two Solstices!> > It is> > > > a> > > > > fallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so> > called> > > > > Sayana> > > > > or the so called nirayana and that is why we are all > > celebrating our> > > > > festivals and muhurtas on wrong days!> > > > >> > > > > The most glaring example of the " benefits of 'Vedic astrology " > > is> > > > > that you,> > > > > the head-cum-founder- cum-owner of the group of " Vedic-> > astrology " > > > > > ()> > > > > will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only because you> > > > are a> > > > > " Vedic astrologer " whereas actually, as per all the shastras by> > > > which> > > > > you> > > > > and your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on > > July> > > > 24!> > > > > Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating Pitra-> > > > > Amavasya on> > > > > the day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period > > which is> > > > > actually> > > > > suitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages during> > > > > actual> > > > > pitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will > > > > continue> > > > > to> > > > > take place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologers- and> > thereby> > > > the> > > > > whole > > > > > of Hindu community--- only because you believe in Mesha etc.> > Rashis-> > > > --> > > > > whether> > > > > the so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire > > that> > > > the> > > > > rashi> > > > > based hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known as " Vedic> > > > > astrology " ! > > > > >> > > > > When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in " Vedic-> > astrology> > > > > () " > > > > > forum, you just summarily banned me from that group on the > > > > > recommendation of> > > > > some Western " Vedic astrologer " who was finding it difficult to> > > > > market his> > > > > trinkets through your forum after reading my arguments! > > > > >> > > > > However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join> > > > >> > > > > http://groups. / group/HinduCalen dar > > > > >> > > > > forum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu community> > is> > > > > being> > > > > taken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the festivals on> > > > > wrong days> > > > > by " Vedic astrologers " just to make a fast buck or gain> > > > > some " reputation " .> > > > > You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum > > without> > > > > any> > > > > restrictions since the posts to that forum are not moderated at> > > > all!> > > > >> > > > > I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some people,> > > > > including> > > > > you, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what intrigues me is your> > > > > silence and> > > > > the silence of other scholars about the various dates of birth> > of> > > > > Bhagwan> > > > > Rama according to " Vedic astrologers " ! Tfshey say He incarnated> > > > > anywhere> > > > > between 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is supposed> > to> > > > be> > > > > hundreds of thousands of years old! Even a " his holiness of the> > art> > > > > of> > > > > something " has " confirmed " (sic!) that the date of birth of > > Bhagwan> > > > > Ram> > > > > was/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared by an> > > > > Income Tax> > > > > Commissioner for that date! > > > > >> > > > > Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing stock> > of> > > > the> > > > > entire> > > > > Hindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki Ramayana,> > on> > > > > the basis> > > > > of which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on January> > 14,> > > > > 5114 BCE> > > > > as per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000 > > years?> > > > > These> > > > > jyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well!> > > > >> > > > > In any case, predictive astrologers are requested that if > > predictive> > > > > gimmicks are a necessary evil for them and if they cannot> > survive> > > > > without> > > > > them just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, these> > > > > jyotishis must> > > > > at least leave the Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke> > their> > > > > filthy> > > > > nose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals and> > > > > muhurtas! Let> > > > > them go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or> > Maloo> > > > > will be> > > > > the PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas-- - but> > let> > > > > them just> > > > > step out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a> > > > > premonition that> > > > > they will not do so because whenever any seminar or conference> > is> > > > held> > > > > regarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably> > always> > > > > attended> > > > > by and presided over by " Vedic astrologers " with the result > > that we> > > > > are> > > > > always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals as> > > > advised> > > > > by> > > > > Lahiri-walas instead of the shastras! > > > > >> > > > > It thus goes without saying that I will have to continue> > my " Dharma-> > > > > yudha " > > > > > against " Vedic astrology " for streamlining the Hindu calendar---> > > > > because the> > > > > real Vedic calendar and predictive gimmicks cannot exist side by> > > > side> > > > > in the> > > > > real Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite of> > the> > > > > fact that> > > > > I have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I> > > > know " yato> > > > > dharmas tato jayah " ! > > > > >> > > > > With regards,> > > > >> > > > > AKK> > > > >> > > > > --- End forwarded message ---> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web> > post> > > > > Messages in this topic (4)> > > > > 1b. > > > > >> > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!> > > > > Posted by: " Phanindar pb " pbphanindar@ pbphanindar > > > > > Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:09 am (PDT)> > > > > Dear AKK> > > > > Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for> > mumdane> > > > predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know the > > UNITY> > > > IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to continue> > ur> > > > DHARMA YUDDAM!Á However, predictive astrology based on Prasna> > Bhagha > > > > paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in> > answering> > > > the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis,> > > > Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info > > > > > With best wishes> > > > >> > > > > P.B.Phanindar> > > > > Chartered Accountant> > > > > 99893 99195> > > > > 98662 21340 > > > > >> > > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com>> > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> > > > > > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " -- -the> > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas!> > > > > > > > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > >> > > > > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " > > <jyotirved@ ..>> > > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji, > > > > >> > > > > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic> > astrology " -> > > > the> > > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by> > you> > > > in> > > > > July> > > > > 2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008!> > > > >> > > > > I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge of " Vedic> > > > > astrologers " > > > > > about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why> > they> > > > call> > > > > themselves " Vedic astrologers " ! They base their claims of > > > > astrology> > > > > being> > > > > an " anga " of the Vedas because there is a " Vedanga " > > named " Vedanga> > > > > Jyotisha " ! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts! > > > > >> > > > > " Vedanga Jyotisha " is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th century> > BCE> > > > > compiled> > > > > in Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of calculating mean> > > > > tithi and> > > > > nakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the four> > > > > cardinal> > > > > points besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months! > > > > >> > > > > It does not mention anything even by mistake about any planets> > like> > > > > Budha,> > > > > Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, Vrisha> > > > etc.> > > > > Rashis!> > > > >> > > > > Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology> > > > just > > > > > because there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even know> > > > ABC> > > > > of> > > > > their own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some > > > > > overseas " Vamadevas " > > > > > are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and the> > > > > Vedangas> > > > > themselves first and then enter into discussions on such topics-> > --> > > > > lest they> > > > > put on public display their lack of knowledge of their own> > shastras> > > > > otherwise!> > > > > > > > > > Here is a challenge to all the " Vedic astrologers " the world> > over:> > > > > pl.> > > > > quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga> > > > > Jyotisha or> > > > > the Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that> > matter,> > > > > the so> > > > > called Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, Vrisha> > etc.> > > > > Rashis> > > > > even by mistake!> > > > >> > > > > We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta either> > > > prior> > > > > to the> > > > > Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika!> > > > >> > > > > We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets > > either> > > > in> > > > > any of> > > > > the Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to the> > Surya> > > > > Sidhatna of Maya the mlechha! > > > > >> > > > > Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc.> > > > Rashis> > > > > in the> > > > > Mahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also > > > > > nakshatras times> > > > > without number!> > > > >> > > > > Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic> > > > > astrology is > > > > > taking the Hindu community for a ride!> > > > >> > > > > We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal,> > Shani> > > > > etc. > > > > > planets in the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana-> > walas,> > > > all> > > > > the> > > > > puranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of > > Vernal> > > > > Equinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar Sankanti> > as the> > > > > Uttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year > > and> > > > so> > > > > on!> > > > > That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya> > > > Sidhanta> > > > > where > > > > > Makar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It> > > > > definitely> > > > > leads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc.> > Rashis > > > > > had been> > > > > imported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then> > later> > > > > incorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu " sishyas of > > > > > Varahamihira " .> > > > >> > > > > Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge for> > all> > > > the> > > > > Vedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world over!> > Let> > > > > them> > > > > quote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or Shastra> > that> > > > has> > > > > advised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on any> > plan!> > > > > On the> > > > > other hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that> > > > > any " nakshatra> > > > > soochi-brahman " must be treated as a chandala. That is exactly> > > > > contrary to> > > > > what Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita " Yavanas (like> > > > Maya> > > > > of the> > > > > Surya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are > > > > mlechhas> > > > > but> > > > > because they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis " .!> > > > >> > > > > Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the > > > > sidhantas> > > > > and> > > > > karna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the> > mlechha to> > > > > Graha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong > > orbital> > > > > elements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred> > years> > > > > back,> > > > > i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, panchangas> > in> > > > > Bharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works i.e.> > > > > sidhantas> > > > > and karna-granthas! That means that even those panchangas were> > > > > absolutely> > > > > wrong! And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong> > > > panchangas> > > > > till a> > > > > few decades back in India! What is most surprising is > > that " Vedic> > > > > astrologers " are shouting from housetops that our ancestors> > right> > > > from> > > > > Varahamihira to " my grandpa " made correct predictions and that> > is> > > > why> > > > > Hindu> > > > > astrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other> > > > astrology> > > > > the > > > > > world over!> > > > >> > > > > Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was> > > > actually> > > > > thus > > > > > based on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we> > claim> > > > > that our> > > > > " ancestors " made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU ASTROLOGY> > > > > (KNOWN AS> > > > > VEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS " THE ART (OR IS IT> > > > THE 'SCIENCE'?)> > > > > OF> > > > > MAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA " > > > > >> > > > > Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that?> > > > >> > > > > Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no astrologer > > has> > > > > till> > > > > date predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!)> > would> > > > > take> > > > > place where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that your> > > > > namesake> > > > > late P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even> > hinted> > > > > that> > > > > Shri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More than a> > > > > decade> > > > > back, the Congress I had been written off by the " greatest Vedic> > > > > astrologer> > > > > of the twentieth century " in his Astrological Magazine and had> > > > > advised Smti.> > > > > Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! The> > > > editor> > > > > of> > > > > BABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA government> > would> > > > > not last> > > > > beyond more than six months after taking over the reins and it> > is> > > > > learnt> > > > > that on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even > > started> > > > > making> > > > > preparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around> > > > September> > > > > 2004!> > > > > They are, however, still waiting for that prediction to > > materialize> > > > > whereas> > > > > in the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's " is not keeping good health " --> > -> > > > > something > > > > > which no jyotishi had " foreseen " .> > > > >> > > > > That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, does> > not> > > > > know even > > > > > his time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed that> > > > > he/she had> > > > > predicted that " Singh would be the king " .> > > > > > > > > > That also reminds me that the " greatest Vedic astrologer of the> > > > > twentieth> > > > > century " had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture on> > > > January> > > > > 3 of> > > > > the ensuing year on " Astrology as an aid to the diagnosis of> > heart> > > > > attacks " > > > > > but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of " Cardiac> > arrest " --> > > > -> > > > > to> > > > > delivering that " astrologically planned " lecture! > > > > >> > > > > His " Notable Horoscopes " gives the most incorrect planetary> > > > > longitudes of> > > > > all the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has made> > > > correct> > > > > " assessments " /predictions of all the charts in that work! That> > is> > > > > why I say> > > > > " Vedic astrologers can make correct predictions only from > > incorrect> > > > > data " .> > > > >> > > > > If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about themselves> > > > > correctly, > > > > > how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else> > properly?> > > > >> > > > > What is most damaging for these " Vedic astrologers " is the fact> > > > that> > > > > in> > > > > spite of their claims that they have been practicing the so> > called> > > > > nirayana> > > > > astrology at least over the last seven thousand years, (right> > from> > > > > the Vedic> > > > > times!) they are still unable to decide as to which ayanamsha,> > if> > > > > any, is> > > > > the correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen > > > > > ayanamshas like> > > > > Lahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari,> > Chopra,> > > > > Surya> > > > > Sidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even " zero " ayanamsha going around--> > -> > > > each> > > > > claiming to give the maximum correct results! What they fail to> > > > > understand> > > > > that if any ayanamsha is correct, all the rest are incorrect!> > All> > > > of> > > > > them> > > > > can never be correct, though all of them can simultaneously be> > > > wrong!> > > > > > > > > > These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that astrological> > > > > rashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their> > > > > imagination since > > > > > the Rashis have no existence actually/astronomic ally and that> > is> > > > why> > > > > we find> > > > > hundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat > > twelve> > > > > equal> > > > > segments/compartmen ts/divisions astronomically and that is why> > > > > whether it is> > > > > JPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give planetary> > > > > longitudes> > > > > in terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical works> > but> > > > > just the> > > > > longitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees! > > > > >> > > > > It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were> > taken as> > > > > rashis> > > > > (astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what was> > > > > imported into> > > > > India! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana> > rashis> > > > do> > > > > not> > > > > exist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy or> > > > > confusion> > > > > about sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist at all! It is> > thus a> > > > > confusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West! > > > > >> > > > > The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike the> > fake> > > > > Vamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus pocus> > > > and> > > > > they> > > > > did not need any astrological Rashis thus! The Vedic seers named> > > > the> > > > > Vedic > > > > > months just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons and> > to> > > > > four> > > > > cardinal points----i. e. the two Equinoxes and two Solstices!> > It is> > > > a> > > > > fallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so> > called> > > > > Sayana> > > > > or the so called nirayana and that is why we are all > > celebrating our> > > > > festivals and muhurtas on wrong days!> > > > >> > > > > The most glaring example of the " benefits of 'Vedic astrology " > > is> > > > > that you,> > > > > the head-cum-founder- cum-owner of the group of " Vedic-> > astrology " > > > > > ()> > > > > will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only because you> > > > are a> > > > > " Vedic astrologer " whereas actually, as per all the shastras by> > > > which> > > > > you> > > > > and your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on > > July> > > > 24!> > > > > Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating Pitra-> > > > > Amavasya on> > > > > the day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period > > which is> > > > > actually> > > > > suitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages during> > > > > actual> > > > > pitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will > > > > continue> > > > > to> > > > > take place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologers- and> > thereby> > > > the> > > > > whole > > > > > of Hindu community--- only because you believe in Mesha etc.> > Rashis-> > > > --> > > > > whether> > > > > the so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire > > that> > > > the> > > > > rashi> > > > > based hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known as " Vedic> > > > > astrology " ! > > > > >> > > > > When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in " Vedic-> > astrology> > > > > () " > > > > > forum, you just summarily banned me from that group on the > > > > > recommendation of> > > > > some Western " Vedic astrologer " who was finding it difficult to> > > > > market his> > > > > trinkets through your forum after reading my arguments! > > > > >> > > > > However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join> > > > >> > > > > http://groups. / group/HinduCalen dar > > > > >> > > > > forum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu community> > is> > > > > being> > > > > taken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the festivals on> > > > > wrong days> > > > > by " Vedic astrologers " just to make a fast buck or gain> > > > > some " reputation " .> > > > > You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum > > without> > > > > any> > > > > restrictions since the posts to that forum are not moderated at> > > > all!> > > > >> > > > > I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some people,> > > > > including> > > > > you, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what intrigues me is your> > > > > silence and> > > > > the silence of other scholars about the various dates of birth> > of> > > > > Bhagwan> > > > > Rama according to " Vedic astrologers " ! Tfshey say He incarnated> > > > > anywhere> > > > > between 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is supposed> > to> > > > be> > > > > hundreds of thousands of years old! Even a " his holiness of the> > art> > > > > of> > > > > something " has " confirmed " (sic!) that the date of birth of > > Bhagwan> > > > > Ram> > > > > was/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared by an> > > > > Income Tax> > > > > Commissioner for that date! > > > > >> > > > > Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing stock> > of> > > > the> > > > > entire> > > > > Hindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki Ramayana,> > on> > > > > the basis> > > > > of which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on January> > 14,> > > > > 5114 BCE> > > > > as per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000 > > years?> > > > > These> > > > > jyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well!> > > > >> > > > > In any case, predictive astrologers are requested that if > > predictive> > > > > gimmicks are a necessary evil for them and if they cannot> > survive> > > > > without> > > > > them just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, these> > > > > jyotishis must> > > > > at least leave the Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke> > their> > > > > filthy> > > > > nose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals and> > > > > muhurtas! Let> > > > > them go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or> > Maloo> > > > > will be> > > > > the PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas-- - but> > let> > > > > them just> > > > > step out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a> > > > > premonition that> > > > > they will not do so because whenever any seminar or conference> > is> > > > held> > > > > regarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably> > always> > > > > attended> > > > > by and presided over by " Vedic astrologers " with the result > > that we> > > > > are> > > > > always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals as> > > > advised> > > > > by> > > > > Lahiri-walas instead of the shastras! > > > > >> > > > > It thus goes without saying that I will have to continue> > my " Dharma-> > > > > yudha " > > > > > against " Vedic astrology " for streamlining the Hindu calendar---> > > > > because the> > > > > real Vedic calendar and predictive gimmicks cannot exist side by> > > > side> > > > > in the> > > > > real Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite of> > the> > > > > fact that> > > > > I have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I> > > > know " yato> > > > > dharmas tato jayah " ! > > > > >> > > > > With regards,> > > > >> > > > > AKK> > > > >> > > > > --- End forwarded message ---> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web> > post> > > > > Messages in this topic (4)> > > > > 1c. > > > > >> > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!> > > > > Posted by: " Avtar Krishen Kaul " jyotirved@ a_krishen > > > > > Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:10 am (PDT)> > > > > Shri P. B. Phaninderji,> > > > > Nmaskar!> > > > > <astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY IN DIVERSITY if> > > > only> > > > > u care to observe! >> > > > >> > > > > It appears you are confusing astrology with> > > > > astronomy/consmolog y/cosmogeny! > > > > >> > > > > <However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha paddathi> > > > would> > > > > certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the > > specific> > > > > question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras> > etc.,>> > > > >> > > > > What is " Prasna Bhagha paddathi " which works without rashis and> > > > > nakshatras etc.? I am hearing about it for the first time.> > > > > Regards,> > > > > AKK> > > > >> > > > > , Phanindar pb > > > > > <pbphanindar@ ...> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear AKK> > > > > > Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for > > mumdane> > > > > predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know the> > UNITY> > > > > IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to> > continue > > > > ur> > > > > DHARMA YUDDAM!? However, predictive astrology based on Prasna> > > > Bhagha> > > > > paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in > > > > answering> > > > > the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis,> > > > > Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info> > > > > > With best wishes > > > > > >> > > > > > P.B.Phanindar> > > > > > Chartered Accountant> > > > > > 99893 99195> > > > > > 98662 21340 > > > > > >> > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..> > > > > > > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " -- -the> > > > greatest> > > > > fraud on the Vedas!> > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " > > > > <jyotirved@ ..>> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,> > > > > >> > > > > > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic> > > > astrology " - > > > > > the> > > > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by> > > > you> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web> > post> > > > > Messages in this topic (4)> > > > > 1d.> > > > > > > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!> > > > > Posted by: " Phanindar pb " pbphanindar@ pbphanindar> > > > > Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:37 am (PDT) > > > > > Dear AKK> > > > > There is no confusion whatsoever in my mind when I said that> > > > through Astrology we can achieve Unity in diversity. We are able> > to > > > > understand oneness of this universe through the science of> > astrology> > > > to that extent it is fine! the only problem is applying this> > > > knowledge 4 mundane and reducing it to fortune telling to the > > > > individual level only has brought disrespect to the science!Á The> > is> > > > always perfect however, the scientist can always go wrong!> > > > > Regarding PBP it is based on Prasna sastra of Kalidasa > > synthesysed> > > > by KP and PBP!> > > > >> > > > > P.B.Phanindar> > > > > Chartered Accountant> > > > > 99893 99195 > > > > > 98662 21340> > > > >> > > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com>> > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> > > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the> > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas!> > > > > > > > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 9:40 PM> > > > >> > > > > Shri P. B. Phaninderji,> > > > > Nmaskar!> > > > > <astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY IN DIVERSITY if> > > > only> > > > > u care to observe! >> > > > >> > > > > It appears you are confusing astrology with> > > > > astronomy/consmolog y/cosmogeny! > > > > >> > > > > <However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha paddathi> > > > would> > > > > certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the > > specific> > > > > question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras> > etc.,>> > > > >> > > > > What is " Prasna Bhagha paddathi " which works without rashis and> > > > > nakshatras etc.? I am hearing about it for the first time.> > > > > Regards,> > > > > AKK> > > > >> > > > > , Phanindar pb > > > > > <pbphanindar@ ...> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear AKK> > > > > > Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for > > mumdane> > > > > predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know the> > UNITY> > > > > IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to> > continue > > > > ur> > > > > DHARMA YUDDAM!? However, predictive astrology based on Prasna> > > > Bhagha> > > > > paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in > > > > answering> > > > > the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis,> > > > > Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info> > > > > > With best wishes > > > > > >> > > > > > P.B.Phanindar> > > > > > Chartered Accountant> > > > > > 99893 99195> > > > > > 98662 21340 > > > > > >> > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..> > > > > > > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " -- -the> > > > greatest> > > > > fraud on the Vedas!> > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " > > > > <jyotirved@ ..>> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-j...[Message clipped] -- TKP Ghopal32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road, I Agraharam,SALEM-636 00193666 23444 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Dear Ghopal ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your reply and details about your-self. So your in-laws are in Gwalior hence I am sure you will visit and meet me. I was also student of JU. Thanks for your interest shown in my book. I am providing full address so that any member can meet me when they visit Gwalior or passes through Gwalior. Now your point >>>> though the principle exist that Rahu -Ketu are intersection points, the ephimeris give the right time of occurance of eclipse, even with a difference of 5 deg.<<<<<<<<. You are again confusing. Because the principle that Rahu Ketu are intersection point is a fabricated principle in view of the concept of our sages. Who were eagerly observing the eclipse To work out the time of eclipse they have imagined the concept of Rahu Ketu due to trouble on Sun / Moon God they have devised the way to free them from this trouble by donation, bathing in Ganga etc. You may have studied the story of Samudra Manthan after which Rahu Ketu were created and they are after Sun and Moon since then. Thus there was no concept of intersection of orbit of Sun and Moon. Thus they found (and was followed even after Grahlaghav in 16th century) that eclipse may occur even if Rahu ketu may be 14 degrees away from the Sun Moon and they were able to work out the eclipse. (vinshotary dasha on which KP system has been erected, was also founded on the eclipse ie. Rahu ketu. You will find detailed procedure in my book) But after the concept of solar system (which was not accepted by western and Indian society till mid 20th century); some astrologers have modified it according to scientific concept that Rahu ketu are intersection point of orbit. Thus they have actually blasted the concept of our sages. But for their monetary benefit and popularity of science they are using both of them. So far working out of the eclipse is concerned you can find that traditional Rahu ketu with 3-11 retrograde motion is based on the concept of sages whereas if we want to follow the concept that Rahu Ketu are intersection point then we have to change retrograde motion as well as their opposite situation (180 deg). You will find more explanation in length in my book. So far timing of eclipse is concerned; now these information is being imported from NASA and used in ephemeris, almanac etc. Like astrological books who are using information about the planets as supplied by NASA and not by our sages. Astrologer's contribution for this astrology is that that they are saying that all modern information is given by sages. Thus supplying the information of NASA in the name of sages is greatest contribution of our astrologers who are encashing the faith of ignorant public, and prefer silence zone at the time of any interaction. But main question is this that what they can say when they don't know any thing in depth except exploitation in the era of unemployment. From the book you will also find the easiest way to find out the eclipse. So it is not a problem to supply the detail of eclipse with wrong data, because eclipse is visible hence correctness is a must, whereas analysis of data is a brain scratching exercise, which is neither expected from the businessman astrologers nor from ignorant public, which is evident from the forum that we have +100 members in our forum, quite educated, from different cities, different occupation etc. but when they do not have inquisitive mind (as they prefer silence zone or quitting the forum, as if they have been appointed by the sages to save sages by supplying the information of the NASA in the name of sages) then can we expect from +70% illiterates and 30% followers of these 70% that they may question astrologer. So merely by using internet or other modern equipments one can not be inquisitive. Whereas our sages, who do not have any modern equipment but they have inquisitive mind thus they can devise the concept of Rahu Ketu. But we, despite having all modern information are not able to analyze the principles. What a joke, that lamb are saving the racer, and close minded astrologer or supporter with blind faith are saving the inquisitiveness of our sages, who always had best inquisitiveness. I am writing you separately on your email astrogopalji about my book, and I am sure you will like the original content of the book like every reader of the book. As till date I have not received any msg in opposite to my book neither from astrologers nor from readers except many encouraging letters. Hence I am still on the job of writing my third book. Thanks and hope you will continue to ask these questions as given in `Astrology a science or myth' in other forums including our forum. I am sure that our interaction will jump to new heights, as soon as you start reading my book. Yours truly, Sanat Sanat Kumar Jain 2, Wagle's Bada Near Bombay Bakery Dal Bazar, Gwalior 474 009 (MP) Ph 0751-2626868 Sanatkumar_jain Think differently, Think logically and Think scientifically PS : Some new members have joined the forum. I welcome them in the only forum, which is discussing about the science if any behind astrology. I hope members will read some SOA_____- files and `Astrology a science or myth " ; so that they may find the line of interaction. I will like to have interaction on any point (old or new). So existing members may also come out from silence zone and have inquisitive mind if you want to find the truth of astrology. , " TKP Ghopal " <astrogopalji wrote: > > Dear Sanat Ji > Thank you for a detailed mail. > I was in IAF at Maharajpura Airport during 1974-1984.I got married there at > CP Colony,Morar and had my B.Com.,and M.Com from JU between 1978 and 1982. > My wife's relatives are still in CP Colony though they are also from > South.My wife worked in INCOMETAX Gwalior.Now we are all at Salem.TN. > Certainly I would like to meet you when I make my next trip to GWL. > > Coming to the point ,though the principle exist that Rahu -Ketu are > intersection points, the ephimeris give the right time of occurance of > eclipse,even with a difference of 5 deg. > What is their workout,how could they give correct time of eclipse? > > Kindly send me a copy of your book by vpp to the address given below.I would > pay and receive. > Let me go thro' before I ask many questions. > Thank you. > Regards > tkp ghopal > > > On 8/29/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > > Dear Ghopal ji, > > Namaskar, > > Thanks for your quick reply. > > > > I surprised to know that you have studied in JU, Gwalior. Inform some > > more details about your college, residence, friends, present job etc. > > I am living in Dal Bazar. I will like to meet you during your next > > visit to Gwalior. Sh NN Pandey is professional astrologer and busy in > > ………… JU has started the course on Jyotish some 4 years back at the > > time of NDA Govt. But it has only 3-4 students since then. I know > > that Shri Pandey Ji was not a student since then. I don't know from > > where he has done his doctorate in Jyotish. > > > > Now your comment : > > >>>>>>I am of the feeling if the language is maintained like this > > many may > > not leave the forum.<<<<<<< > > > > I am very particular about the language and I think I am maintaining > > my language. Even then I will appreciate if you point out some msg > > where I may have slipped. In my welcome note I have mentioned > > >>>>>>>> this forum is intended to unearth the science of astrology > > hence interaction is totally academic and may never be taken as > > personal. Because it is natural that we may have difference of > > opinion but there must be no personal difference, and try to strongly > > convince the members with your stand, logic, scientific concept etc., > > but never use insulting or filthy language, as is being done in many > > other forums. Thus give regard to get regard for maintaining a > > healthy academic atmosphere.<<<<<<< > > > > However generally I do not forget to mention " Remember that nothing > > is personal and it is academic discussion " , so that feeling of any > > member may not hurt. Even then if members are not willing to know and > > want to continue with their unfounded faith, and prepared to leave > > the forum without any personal ill-will then what I can do. I always > > want that every one must interact if they think that astrology is > > science. Hence I always request members to invite their friends as no > > permission is required for membership or msg. I hope members will > > realize the importance of interaction, which is available with the > > help of science, which was not available to our ancestral. > > > > I am also happy that except one/two instances, members are using good > > language. I have also warned for using filthy language. But problem > > of filthy language may only arise when members come forward with > > their stand, but when most of the members are in silence zone so > > where is the question of good language. Hi Hi. > > > > Regarding Sh. AKK and Dipika Ji, I will like to say that though they > > are not in support of astrology, even then their language is very > > good. Both are highly qualified. I am reading the msg of Sh AKK since > > long and I find that he also maintain his language despite very harsh > > language. > > > > Regarding > > >>>>> I presume that Sun,Moon,Rahu and Ketu must fall in line for a > > total eclipse.But that was > > not the position last time.Why?<<<<<<<< I will like to say that this > > is not the position with this eclipse only. I have mentioned (in my > > book) full cycle of eclipse during 18 years where position of Rahu/ > > Ketu is not matching with the position of sun and moon. Two examples > > are also given in my first msg " Astrology a science or myth " . > > > > I am again quoting the extract from my msg dated 17-7-8 > > >>>>>>>you will not find any scripture where it was mentioned that > > eclipse is due to shadow of earth or Moon. You can not even provide > > the maths behind it. For your kind information Rahu was treated as > > only reason for eclipse even Ketu was not mentioned anywhere as > > responsible for eclipse. But due to actual eclipse when Rahu was 180 > > deg away, there was always confusion about the actual cause of > > eclipse. But due to imaginary retrograde motion of rahu ketu, eclipse > > was traced. After scientific concept about the solar system it was > > initially not accepted but in last 50 years it has been accepted by > > the society. Thus astrologer also tried to amend and find a new trick > > to befool the public by claiming that Rahu ketu is intersection point > > of orbit. But is it mentioned by any sages? NO. Because in their > > concept Moon was above the Sun then how Moon can create shadow. Thus > > I have raised a point in my blog that when Rahu Ketu is intersection > > point of orbit and total solar eclipse is visible, it means Sun and > > Moon are on the intersection point, and Rahu ketu must be also on the > > intersection point. <<<<<< > > > > Thus you can see that motion and position as is being used by > > astrologers has nothing to do with the correct position and motion. > > After analyzing every eclipse I am of the firm opinion that all > > horoscopes are wrongly showing the position of these important > > planets, whether it may be KP or Indian or western. I have forwarded > > my blog " astrology a science or myth " to many astrologers but they > > are busy in cheating or exploiting general public hence they prefer > > silence. If you want to see then just ask various questions raised in > > my blog and find out the answer from the astrologers. As you are > > members of many forums and active too. > > > > Now you can imagine as to when position of Rahu/Ketu is not correct, > > which are very important planets for prediction. Then how a horoscope > > is correct or how prediction may be correct or how KP etc. may be > > correct. > > If you will go through from my blog sincerely then you will find that > > every astrological principle is wrong as they were formulated on > > wrong basics. And for this you have to know the process of making > > pudding (principles) and have to come out from your earlier stand > > >>>>>> Why dont you eat the pudding instead of counting the holes in > > it.<<<<<<<< (your msg 16-7-8) > > > > Most of the astrologers of Gwalior (like many other cities) have gone > > through my book and most of them are not interested in discussion for > > fear of loosing their business. But some astrologer (local and of > > other cities) have admitted in their very personal meeting that they > > are convinced with the contents of the book and have no answer except > > to follow the system. Now what I can do? Either I may join their band > > and exploit innocents or keep informing others. I prefer second > > option. > > > > Hope to hear soon. > > > > Nothing is personal (except invitation to Gwalior. Hi Hi). > > > > Thanks > > > > Yours truly, > > > > Sanat > > > > <% 40>, > > " TKP Ghopal " > > <astrogopalji@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sanatji > > > Thank you for your explanetary and pleasing language. > > > I am very much fascinated by the knowledge you possess. > > > Also I am of the feeling if the language is maintained like this > > many may > > > not leave the forum. > > > I am keenly watching the forum and anyone sticking with this like > > AKK,Dipika > > > are really knowledgeable. > > > Anyone shows their angry has reality. > > > Coming to the point regading rahu-ketu away by 5 degs during last > > eclipse is > > > a mistery to me. > > > Whatever I had gone thro to my little knowledge ( I ve only 11 > > years of > > > experiance in astrology,that too kp only,I ve little knowledge about > > > Parasara-I dont ve " I know everything " kind of attitude) I presume > > that > > > Sun,Moon,Rahu and Ketu must fall in line for a total eclipse.But > > that was > > > not the position last time.Why? I really dont know.If you can > > explain I ll > > > try to understand.Thanking you in anticipation. > > > There was a time, since planets and sun are proved to be existing > > phisical > > > matters,and the study on that can be called as Science.The > > prediction > > > offered on the basis of planetary movements are to be considered as > > Science > > > of approximation .This used to be discussed in our Association at > > Salem > > > inTN,whenever anyone claims that he talks Science.We used to make > > him > > > realise that it cannot be tested on lab,so may be, you can call it a > > > sciennce of approximation.Hence it is not defined as to be a > > sceince of > > > approximation either. > > > > > > I came across one astrologer by name Pt.Dr.Narendranath Pandey > > > M.Sc.,Astronomy,Doctorate in Astrology awarded by Jiwaji > > > University,Gwalior.(His viasiting card gives the above information) > > His > > > office is in Naya bazaar,Lashkar opp.to Dr.Kaul Narsing home. > > > I personally went to meet him in the interest of meeting some > > astrologer in > > > Gwalior during my brief visit.Though I saw him I could not ve a > > meeting with > > > him since he was unable to offer me an appointment. > > > Well, I wanted to know ,since you are a Gwaliorian do Jiwaji > > University > > > offer Doctorate? > > > I am keen becuase I was a student of JU way back in 1978-1982. > > > I shall go thro the file section and come with more queries so that > > others > > > also get enlightened in astrology. > > > Thanks and Regards > > > tkp ghopal > > > > > > > > > On 8/27/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Ghopal ji, > > > > Namaskar, > > > > Thanks for your msg after 24 days. Happy to know that atleast you > > are > > > > reading the msgs. You have raised a question : > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>Everytime some one or the other is getting away from this > > > > forum > > > > accusing of bringing discredit to both astrology and Hindu > > > > religion.<<<<<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > Perhaps you are referring the msg of Sh. Razdan Ji, But you may > > have > > > > also gone through my msg dated 6-8-8, wherein I have clarified the > > > > position. I am again quoting the para : > > > > > > > > >>>>>> From which msg you find that I am downgrading astrology. > > If I > > > > am informing or asking as to how sign, signlord etc. were > > formulated > > > > (refer my first msg / blog " Astrology a science or myth')then it > > is > > > > not downgrading, or if I am saying that sign etc. are not in Ved > > then > > > > it is not downgrading (you can also refer in length reply of Sh > > Kaul > > > > ji), if I am asking as to why Ketu is 5 deg. away at the time of > > > > total eclipse, when astrologers are claiming that Rahu ketu are > > > > intersection point of orbits and so on ……… than how you can say I > > am > > > > downgrading astrology. If astrologers have no answer then it is > > their > > > > fault (though I have hinted below every question and detail is > > > > available in the book), who are exploiting public by claiming it > > > > science and have no logical answer. > > > > > > > > If you admit and promote the view that astrology (predictive) is > > not > > > > science then I will not ask any question. But you, like all > > > > astrologers have faith on astrology then please do not publicize > > it > > > > as a science. You can claim that it is our heritage, it is taken > > from > > > > ancestral, it is like God (no pujari of any temple of any > > religion is > > > > claiming that existence of God is Science, because business of > > > > pujaries are roaring but on the other hand business of astrologers > > > > are always in doldrums hence at one point of time they take > > shelter > > > > in faith and at another point of time they claim it as science yet > > > > another time they claim it as vedang etc….). But if astrologers > > will > > > > claim that it is science then I have right to question its > > validity > > > > as science that too after putting +35 years in astrology and > > writing > > > > two original books. <<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > I hope this will clear your question. You have further asked : > > > > > > > > >>>>>> you all got Vexed with astrology becoz of some misereable > > > > failures?!<<<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > Regarding this I have explained in detail as to how I have > > proceeded > > > > in the direction of analyzing astrological principles itself. > > Please > > > > refer file " Astrology a science or myth " in file section of 1st > > msg > > > > of the forum. > > > > > > > > I have also asked some questions from you but you have not yet > > > > answered. Main problem is this. So first of all it must be > > cleared, I > > > > repeat it must be cleared that > > > > > > > > - Predictive astrology has nothing to do with our religion or > > > > religious faith. > > > > - it was not mentioned in any ved or puran that predictive > > astrology > > > > is religion hence follow it. > > > > - If any one think that astrology is religiously supported then he > > > > must come forward instead of leaving the forum. Leaving the forum > > > > without discussion it-self shows that they do not know either any > > > > thing about religion or about astrology. > > > > - It is time and again claimed that astrology is science. But they > > > > don't know about the science. Because scientific principles are > > > > always under test and ready to modify. Thus astrological > > principles > > > > must be checked as to how they were formulated (refer astrology a > > > > science or myth) and so on. > > > > > > > > Actually society has a mindset due to ignorance that any question > > > > about sages is sin. Though Parashar himself wrote in Vishnu Puran > > > > that Earth is stationary and Sun is one lakh yojan from the Earth > > and > > > > Moon is again one lakh yojan from the Sun and so on. I have > > written > > > > in detail in my book about every astrological principle as to how > > all > > > > principles were formulated around this concept. But when members > > are > > > > themselves confused and do not want to read Parashar and following > > > > 3rd grade books on astrology, whose writer cunningly incorporating > > > > modern knowledge about the solar system in the name of sages. Then > > > > what I can do. Actually they are degrading the labour of our sages > > > > who were inquisitive to know about the universe. Thus agree to > > absorb > > > > the knowledge of Greeks too. Actually we are shying to present > > them > > > > in old fashioned cloths (knowledge) in modern well dressed > > society. > > > > It is like a well educated son, foreign return, highly qualified, > > > > highly paid, highly regarded etc. (like you – not personally you); > > > > and his parents may be quite illiterate, in view of modern > > knowledge, > > > > but are quite eligible to realize the importance of education, > > that's > > > > why they have tried their best with their limited source of > > income, > > > > knowledge and so on (like our sages) and give good guidance and > > > > adviced him (new generations) to get good knowledge (tamso ma > > > > jyotirgamay) and so on. But when same son was asked about his > > parent > > > > by some equally qualified person, then he will shy to say that I > > am > > > > son of illiterate parents, who are quite unaware of modern > > knowledge > > > > etc. then definitely he will boast and claim that his parents are > > > > very rich, and they are quite aware of all modern gadgets and they > > > > are post graduate and so on. So don't you think that by this > > coverup > > > > his son is actually undermining the pain, devotion, sanskar etc. > > of > > > > his parents (sages) and actually defaming them. > > > > > > > > Thus you may have proud on the skill of our sages who were living > > in > > > > huts, who were burning the light with rubbing of wood, who were > > > > gazing sun moon with very inquisitive mind and so on. Because it > > is > > > > our heritage and we have acquired modern knowledge on the ABC of > > our > > > > sages. What is the harm if we admit that our parents are > > illiterate > > > > or our sages were not aware with modern knowledge? > > > > > > > > We must have courage to preserve the hut of our ancestral as our > > > > heritage and on the other hand must be prepared to build modern > > > > building instead of cheating to say that building was prepared by > > our > > > > ancestral. > > > > > > > > I think members and general public must be aware as to what is > > > > factual position and what is polluted information. Only then one > > can > > > > know as to what is right and what is wrong. Thus aim of the forum > > is > > > > just to inform the factual position and let public or member or > > > > reader may decide about the correctness. But until members/ > > public is > > > > not prepared to hear any thing against so called religion of > > > > astrology due to fear of sin and transfer in Narak, nothing can be > > > > done. But I will continue to inform the public about the factual > > > > position, so that persons who are not governed by his mind and are > > > > governed by the mass will realize in due course. > > > > > > > > I have asked about the following questions from you. But I am > > still > > > > waiting the replies. > > > > - Why Ketu / Rahu is far away from the intersection point of orbit > > > > during eclipse. As is being claimed by modern astrological books > > that > > > > eclipse is due to intersection of orbit. Is it not evident that > > all > > > > horoscopes are wrongly showing the position of these important > > > > planets. All members must ask their astrologer about this and then > > > > realize the hollow standing of astrologers. > > > > > > > > -Your experience about NADI. > > > > > > > > I will again like to say that SILENCE OR LEAVING IS NOT THE > > SOLUTION > > > > IF YOU HAVE INQUISITIVE MIND. Hence every member must take part in > > > > active exchange of views and substantiate his stand, for which > > this > > > > forum has been formed; (about which you have asked) otherwise > > there > > > > are so many forums who are advocating some false myths without > > > > discussion. They are like `Jyotishi sammelans' (gathering of > > > > astrologers) where first announcement is like that " every orator > > may > > > > take 5-10 minutes and only speak in support of astrology and do > > not > > > > talk against the astrology " . If members may have attended then > > they > > > > know it. But here we are analyzing the correctness of astrological > > > > principles in view of modern knowledge. > > > > > > > > Some previous discussions have been incorporated in SOA_______ > > files. > > > > I am not updating them as members are not interested in > > discussion, > > > > because (I am sorry to say) they only have faith on astrology only > > > > due to misconception that it is religious and moreover they are > > > > neither inquisitive, nor aware with the religion nor aware with > > the > > > > background of predictive astrology except some instant benefit if > > > > some astrologer may predict some thing about them or astrologer > > > > members are interested in their publicity and monetary gains. > > Though > > > > 99% percent astrologer believes that astrology is correct and do > > not > > > > want to hear or analyze it for fear of monetary loss. And 1% > > > > astrologer though know that prediction may not be correct but > > still > > > > following for the monetary benefit. And do not want to be exposed > > in > > > > front of members that they are not in a position to reply pointed > > > > question hence only escape route is either silence or quitting the > > > > forum. Is it not a strange that since last 5 months I am asking > > > > astrologers to come forward in support of their stand. But either > > > > they are silent or leaving the forum for fear of their downgrading > > > > instead of fear of downgrading of astrology. It is for the > > innocent > > > > new members to realize as to how astrologers are not aware with > > the > > > > astrology but aware with the technique of extracting the money. > > > > > > > > I hope you will not go in long silence and come forward with some > > > > stand. > > > > > > > > Remember that nothing is personal and it is academic discussion > > for > > > > the benefit of the innocent members who are just entering in this > > > > field with a wrong notion that astrology is religious and more > > then > > > > science or they can know their future or like this. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Yours truly, > > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > <% 40> > > <% > > 40>, > > > > " TKP Ghopal " > > > > <astrogopalji@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. AKK > > > > > I had been reading all the mails atleast for the past 2 months. > > > > > Everytime some one or the other is getting away from this forum > > > > accusing of > > > > > bringing discredit to both astrology and Hindu religion. > > > > > Your postings are exemplary I can say. > > > > > The way you asked this gentleman KN Punji that how come he could > > > > bring 100% > > > > > result is quite applaudable. > > > > > Your expolaration and Sanatji 's explanatons are incomparabe. > > > > > You exhibit a very vast knowledge in astrology. > > > > > Is that you all got Vexed with astrology becoz of some > > misereable > > > > failures?! > > > > > Though your language and derivations are pretty good I dont > > > > understand why > > > > > on the name of heaven you are throwing mud on astrology. > > > > > Ofcousre most of the people come to astrology the moment they > > read > > > > some > > > > > books and start telling some thing to their near and dear and > > they > > > > lift them > > > > > to an extent that these ppl give accurate predictions. > > > > > Alas! They claim to have gone to high altitudes in astrology. > > > > > I know there are astrologers who still claim that the planets > > are > > > > Gods and > > > > > dont even want to believe that they have phisical existance,and > > > > they (those > > > > > so called astrologers)pull lot of crowds. > > > > > What I want to ask you is what is the very idea of this forum? > > > > > Execpting few of you ,ppl enter and go out atonce becoz of the > > > > negative (?) > > > > > attitude of this forum? > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > tkp ghopal > > > > > > > > > > On 8/25/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Shir K. N. Punji-ji, > > > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > > Many thanks for your post because unless someobdy express some > > > > view, > > > > > > we just cannot assess our own views! > > > > > > > > > > > > It pains me personally to note that you are pained because of > > some > > > > > > points discussed in this forum. IMHO, your " pain " is actually > > > > > > without any factual foundation! Let me clarify my stand point > > by > > > > > > point: > > > > > > > > > > > > <I am very pained that some people are holding our relegion > > and > > > > the > > > > > > shashtra in contempt.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Could you kindly quote even a single post where any shastra > > or the > > > > > > Hindu religion has been held in contempt. > > > > > > > > > > > > < I am an astrologer and making accurate predictions not once > > but > > > > > > everytime is no coincidence.> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am really glad to know that your predictions prove cent per > > cent > > > > > > correct! Till date no astrologer has claimed cent-per-cent > > > > success! > > > > > > All the top-notch astrologes say that " God only can make cent > > per > > > > > > cent correct predictions " . They claim a maximum of seventy per > > > > cent > > > > > > success! Yours is thus an achievement which needs certainly > > to be > > > > > > lauded. Prior to that, would you kindly answer the following > > > > points: > > > > > > 1. For how long have you been in astrology? > > > > > > 2. What ayanamsha do you use and why? > > > > > > 3. What books on astrology do you use for predictions and why? > > > > > > 4. Have you learnt astrology from some institution like > > Bharatiya > > > > > > Vidya Bhavan or ICAS etc. or " at the feet of some guru " ? Or > > is it > > > > > > that you have mastered the subject just by self-studying! > > > > > > 5. You claim cent per cent success in your predictions. Are > > any of > > > > > > them recorded? Would you kindly let us know as to which > > > > predictions > > > > > > they i.e. the recorded ones were/are and where have they been > > > > > > recorded? > > > > > > 6. Since what date did your predictions prove cent per cent > > > > correct? > > > > > > From the day you started making predeictions or was it in the > > > > > > " recent past " ? > > > > > > 7. Do you practise some sidhi or some mantra etc. > > > > > > Kindly do not treat it as a sort of interrogation but since > > you > > > > have > > > > > > made an exceptional claim, all I want is to satisfy myself. As > > > > > > already repeated several times, my maternal grandfather could > > make > > > > > > cent per cent correct predictions from horoscopes prepared > > from > > > > > > Grahalaghava panchangas! But that success was more because of > > his > > > > > > selflesness and sidhi than anything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > <I find that this forum has been formed to bring discredit to > > our > > > > > > great astrologers even of the current time.> > > > > > > Would you kindly let me know as to which " great astrologer of > > the > > > > > > current time " has been discredited and in what manner? > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <% 40> > > <% > > 40> > > > > <% > > > > 40>, > > > > > > kn punj <knpunj@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very pained that some people are holding our relegion > > and > > > > the > > > > > > shashtra in contempt. > > > > > > > I am an astrologer and making accurate predictions not once > > but > > > > > > everytime is no coincidence. > > > > > > > I joined this forum to enhance my knowledge but I find that > > this > > > > > > forum has been formed to bring discredit to our great > > astrologers > > > > > > even of the current time. > > > > > > > I see no point in being a part of this forum and become a > > party > > > > to > > > > > > some people who name themselves as brahmins ........ . > > > > > > > GOODBYE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 23/8/08, > > > > <% 40><% > > 40> > > > > <% > > > > 40> > > > > > > < <% 40> > > <% > > 40><% > > > > 40>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40> > > <% > > 40> > > > > <% > > > > 40> > > > > > > < <% 40> > > <% > > 40><% > > > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Digest Number 119 > > > > > > > To: <% 40> > > <% > > 40> > > > > <% > > > > 40> > > > > > > > Saturday, 23 August, 2008, 2:48 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Science of Vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messages In This Digest (11 Messages) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1a. > > > > > > > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > > > 1b. > > > > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the > > Vedas! > > > > > > Phanindar pb > > > > > > > 1c. > > > > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the > > Vedas! > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > > > 1d. > > > > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the > > Vedas! > > > > > > Phanindar pb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2a. > > > > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM Phanindar pb > > > > > > > 2b. > > > > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM dipika blr > > > > > > > 2c. > > > > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM dipika blr > > > > > > > 2d. > > > > > > > Re: FAMILY PROBLEM dilip mukherjee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3a. > > > > > > > Fwd: [HinduCalendar] " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud > > on > > > > the > > > > > > V dipika blr > > > > > > > 3b. > > > > > > > Re: Fwd: [HinduCalendar] " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest > > fraud > > > > on > > > > > > t Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4a. > > > > > > > Fwd: Re: [Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad] Eclipses and fear > > psychosis > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > > > View All Topics | Create New Topic > > > > > > > Messages > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1a. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > Posted by: " Avtar Krishen Kaul " jyotirved@ a_krishen > > > > > > > Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:28 am (PDT) > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " > > > > <jyotirved@ ..> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic > > > > astrology " - > > > > > > the > > > > > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted > > by > > > > you > > > > > > in > > > > > > > July > > > > > > > 2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge > > of " Vedic > > > > > > > astrologers " > > > > > > > about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why > > > > they > > > > > > call > > > > > > > themselves " Vedic astrologers " ! They base their claims of > > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > an " anga " of the Vedas because there is a " Vedanga " > > > > named " Vedanga > > > > > > > Jyotisha " ! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Vedanga Jyotisha " is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th > > century > > > > BCE > > > > > > > compiled > > > > > > > in Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of calculating > > mean > > > > > > > tithi and > > > > > > > nakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the > > four > > > > > > > cardinal > > > > > > > points besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does not mention anything even by mistake about any > > planets > > > > like > > > > > > > Budha, > > > > > > > Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, > > Vrisha > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > Rashis! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic > > astrology > > > > > > just > > > > > > > because there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even > > know > > > > > > ABC > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > their own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some > > > > > > > overseas " Vamadevas " > > > > > > > are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and > > the > > > > > > > Vedangas > > > > > > > themselves first and then enter into discussions on such > > topics- > > > > -- > > > > > > > lest they > > > > > > > put on public display their lack of knowledge of their own > > > > shastras > > > > > > > otherwise! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is a challenge to all the " Vedic astrologers " the world > > > > over: > > > > > > > pl. > > > > > > > quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the > > Vedanga > > > > > > > Jyotisha or > > > > > > > the Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that > > > > matter, > > > > > > > the so > > > > > > > called Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, > > Vrisha > > > > etc. > > > > > > > Rashis > > > > > > > even by mistake! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta > > either > > > > > > prior > > > > > > > to the > > > > > > > Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets > > > > either > > > > > > in > > > > > > > any of > > > > > > > the Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to > > the > > > > Surya > > > > > > > Sidhatna of Maya the mlechha! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha > > etc. > > > > > > Rashis > > > > > > > in the > > > > > > > Mahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also > > > > > > > nakshatras times > > > > > > > without number! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as > > Vedic > > > > > > > astrology is > > > > > > > taking the Hindu community for a ride! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, > > > > Shani > > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > planets in the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana- > > > > walas, > > > > > > all > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > puranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of > > > > Vernal > > > > > > > Equinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar > > Sankanti > > > > as the > > > > > > > Uttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the > > year > > > > and > > > > > > so > > > > > > > on! > > > > > > > That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya > > > > > > Sidhanta > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > Makar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It > > > > > > > definitely > > > > > > > leads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc. > > > > Rashis > > > > > > > had been > > > > > > > imported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then > > > > later > > > > > > > incorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu " sishyas of > > > > > > > Varahamihira " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge > > for > > > > all > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Vedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world > > over! > > > > Let > > > > > > > them > > > > > > > quote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or > > Shastra > > > > that > > > > > > has > > > > > > > advised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on > > any > > > > plan! > > > > > > > On the > > > > > > > other hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that > > > > > > > any " nakshatra > > > > > > > soochi-brahman " must be treated as a chandala. That is > > exactly > > > > > > > contrary to > > > > > > > what Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita " Yavanas > > (like > > > > > > Maya > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > Surya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are > > > > > > mlechhas > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > because they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis " .! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the > > > > > > sidhantas > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > karna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the > > > > mlechha to > > > > > > > Graha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong > > > > orbital > > > > > > > elements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred > > > > years > > > > > > > back, > > > > > > > i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, > > panchangas > > > > in > > > > > > > Bharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works > > i.e. > > > > > > > sidhantas > > > > > > > and karna-granthas! That means that even those panchangas > > were > > > > > > > absolutely > > > > > > > wrong! And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong > > > > > > panchangas > > > > > > > till a > > > > > > > few decades back in India! What is most surprising is > > > > that " Vedic > > > > > > > astrologers " are shouting from housetops that our ancestors > > > > right > > > > > > from > > > > > > > Varahamihira to " my grandpa " made correct predictions and > > that > > > > is > > > > > > why > > > > > > > Hindu > > > > > > > astrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other > > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > world over! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was > > > > > > actually > > > > > > > thus > > > > > > > based on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we > > > > claim > > > > > > > that our > > > > > > > " ancestors " made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU > > ASTROLOGY > > > > > > > (KNOWN AS > > > > > > > VEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS " THE ART (OR IS IT > > > > > > THE 'SCIENCE'?) > > > > > > > OF > > > > > > > MAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no > > astrologer > > > > has > > > > > > > till > > > > > > > date predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!) > > > > would > > > > > > > take > > > > > > > place where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that > > your > > > > > > > namesake > > > > > > > late P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even > > > > hinted > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > Shri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More > > than a > > > > > > > decade > > > > > > > back, the Congress I had been written off by the " greatest > > Vedic > > > > > > > astrologer > > > > > > > of the twentieth century " in his Astrological Magazine and > > had > > > > > > > advised Smti. > > > > > > > Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! > > The > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > BABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA > > government > > > > would > > > > > > > not last > > > > > > > beyond more than six months after taking over the reins and > > it > > > > is > > > > > > > learnt > > > > > > > that on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even > > > > started > > > > > > > making > > > > > > > preparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around > > > > > > September > > > > > > > 2004! > > > > > > > They are, however, still waiting for that prediction to > > > > materialize > > > > > > > whereas > > > > > > > in the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's " is not keeping good > > health " -- > > > > - > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > which no jyotishi had " foreseen " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, > > does > > > > not > > > > > > > know even > > > > > > > his time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed > > that > > > > > > > he/she had > > > > > > > predicted that " Singh would be the king " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That also reminds me that the " greatest Vedic astrologer of > > the > > > > > > > twentieth > > > > > > > century " had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture > > on > > > > > > January > > > > > > > 3 of > > > > > > > the ensuing year on " Astrology as an aid to the diagnosis of > > > > heart > > > > > > > attacks " > > > > > > > but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of " Cardiac > > > > arrest " -- > > > > > > - > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > delivering that " astrologically planned " lecture! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His " Notable Horoscopes " gives the most incorrect planetary > > > > > > > longitudes of > > > > > > > all the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has > > made > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > " assessments " /predictions of all the charts in that work! > > That > > > > is > > > > > > > why I say > > > > > > > " Vedic astrologers can make correct predictions only from > > > > incorrect > > > > > > > data " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about > > themselves > > > > > > > correctly, > > > > > > > how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else > > > > properly? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is most damaging for these " Vedic astrologers " is the > > fact > > > > > > that > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > spite of their claims that they have been practicing the so > > > > called > > > > > > > nirayana > > > > > > > astrology at least over the last seven thousand years, > > (right > > > > from > > > > > > > the Vedic > > > > > > > times!) they are still unable to decide as to which > > ayanamsha, > > > > if > > > > > > > any, is > > > > > > > the correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen > > > > > > > ayanamshas like > > > > > > > Lahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari, > > > > Chopra, > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > Sidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even " zero " ayanamsha going > > around-- > > > > - > > > > > > each > > > > > > > claiming to give the maximum correct results! What they > > fail to > > > > > > > understand > > > > > > > that if any ayanamsha is correct, all the rest are > > incorrect! > > > > All > > > > > > of > > > > > > > them > > > > > > > can never be correct, though all of them can simultaneously > > be > > > > > > wrong! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that > > astrological > > > > > > > rashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their > > > > > > > imagination since > > > > > > > the Rashis have no existence actually/astronomic ally and > > that > > > > is > > > > > > why > > > > > > > we find > > > > > > > hundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat > > > > twelve > > > > > > > equal > > > > > > > segments/compartmen ts/divisions astronomically and that is > > why > > > > > > > whether it is > > > > > > > JPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give > > planetary > > > > > > > longitudes > > > > > > > in terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical > > works > > > > but > > > > > > > just the > > > > > > > longitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were > > > > taken as > > > > > > > rashis > > > > > > > (astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what > > was > > > > > > > imported into > > > > > > > India! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana > > > > rashis > > > > > > do > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > exist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy > > or > > > > > > > confusion > > > > > > > about sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist at all! It > > is > > > > thus a > > > > > > > confusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike > > the > > > > fake > > > > > > > Vamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus > > pocus > > > > > > and > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > did not need any astrological Rashis thus! The Vedic seers > > named > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > months just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons > > and > > > > to > > > > > > > four > > > > > > > cardinal points----i. e. the two Equinoxes and two > > Solstices! > > > > It is > > > > > > a > > > > > > > fallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so > > > > called > > > > > > > Sayana > > > > > > > or the so called nirayana and that is why we are all > > > > celebrating our > > > > > > > festivals and muhurtas on wrong days! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The most glaring example of the " benefits of 'Vedic > > astrology " > > > > is > > > > > > > that you, > > > > > > > the head-cum-founder- cum-owner of the group of " Vedic- > > > > astrology " > > > > > > > () > > > > > > > will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only > > because you > > > > > > are a > > > > > > > " Vedic astrologer " whereas actually, as per all the > > shastras by > > > > > > which > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > and your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on > > > > July > > > > > > 24! > > > > > > > Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating > > Pitra- > > > > > > > Amavasya on > > > > > > > the day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period > > > > which is > > > > > > > actually > > > > > > > suitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages > > during > > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > pitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will > > > > > > continue > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > take place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologers- and > > > > thereby > > > > > > the > > > > > > > whole > > > > > > > of Hindu community--- only because you believe in Mesha etc. > > > > Rashis- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > the so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire > > > > that > > > > > > the > > > > > > > rashi > > > > > > > based hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known > > as " Vedic > > > > > > > astrology " ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in " Vedic- > > > > astrology > > > > > > > () " > > > > > > > forum, you just summarily banned me from that group on the > > > > > > > recommendation of > > > > > > > some Western " Vedic astrologer " who was finding it > > difficult to > > > > > > > market his > > > > > > > trinkets through your forum after reading my arguments! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups. / group/HinduCalen dar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu > > community > > > > is > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > taken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the > > festivals on > > > > > > > wrong days > > > > > > > by " Vedic astrologers " just to make a fast buck or gain > > > > > > > some " reputation " . > > > > > > > You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum > > > > without > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > restrictions since the posts to that forum are not > > moderated at > > > > > > all! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some > > people, > > > > > > > including > > > > > > > you, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what intrigues me is > > your > > > > > > > silence and > > > > > > > the silence of other scholars about the various dates of > > birth > > > > of > > > > > > > Bhagwan > > > > > > > Rama according to " Vedic astrologers " ! Tfshey say He > > incarnated > > > > > > > anywhere > > > > > > > between 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is > > supposed > > > > to > > > > > > be > > > > > > > hundreds of thousands of years old! Even a " his holiness of > > the > > > > art > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > something " has " confirmed " (sic!) that the date of birth of > > > > Bhagwan > > > > > > > Ram > > > > > > > was/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared > > by an > > > > > > > Income Tax > > > > > > > Commissioner for that date! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing > > stock > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > entire > > > > > > > Hindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki > > Ramayana, > > > > on > > > > > > > the basis > > > > > > > of which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on > > January > > > > 14, > > > > > > > 5114 BCE > > > > > > > as per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000 > > > > years? > > > > > > > These > > > > > > > jyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In any case, predictive astrologers are requested that if > > > > predictive > > > > > > > gimmicks are a necessary evil for them and if they cannot > > > > survive > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > them just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, > > these > > > > > > > jyotishis must > > > > > > > at least leave the Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke > > > > their > > > > > > > filthy > > > > > > > nose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals > > and > > > > > > > muhurtas! Let > > > > > > > them go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or > > > > Maloo > > > > > > > will be > > > > > > > the PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas-- - > > but > > > > let > > > > > > > them just > > > > > > > step out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a > > > > > > > premonition that > > > > > > > they will not do so because whenever any seminar or > > conference > > > > is > > > > > > held > > > > > > > regarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably > > > > always > > > > > > > attended > > > > > > > by and presided over by " Vedic astrologers " with the result > > > > that we > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals > > as > > > > > > advised > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > Lahiri-walas instead of the shastras! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It thus goes without saying that I will have to continue > > > > my " Dharma- > > > > > > > yudha " > > > > > > > against " Vedic astrology " for streamlining the Hindu > > calendar--- > > > > > > > because the > > > > > > > real Vedic calendar and predictive gimmicks cannot exist > > side by > > > > > > side > > > > > > > in the > > > > > > > real Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > fact that > > > > > > > I have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I > > > > > > know " yato > > > > > > > dharmas tato jayah " ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web > > > > post > > > > > > > Messages in this topic (4) > > > > > > > 1b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the > > Vedas! > > > > > > > Posted by: " Phanindar pb " pbphanindar@ pbphanindar > > > > > > > Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:09 am (PDT) > > > > > > > Dear AKK > > > > > > > Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for > > > > mumdane > > > > > > predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know the > > > > UNITY > > > > > > IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to > > continue > > > > ur > > > > > > DHARMA YUDDAM!Á However, predictive astrology based on Prasna > > > > Bhagha > > > > > > paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in > > > > answering > > > > > > the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, > > > > > > Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info > > > > > > > With best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.B.Phanindar > > > > > > > Chartered Accountant > > > > > > > 99893 99195 > > > > > > > 98662 21340 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) > > com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> > > > > > > > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " -- -the > > > > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " > > > > <jyotirved@ ..> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic > > > > astrology " - > > > > > > the > > > > > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted > > by > > > > you > > > > > > in > > > > > > > July > > > > > > > 2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge > > of " Vedic > > > > > > > astrologers " > > > > > > > about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why > > > > they > > > > > > call > > > > > > > themselves " Vedic astrologers " ! They base their claims of > > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > an " anga " of the Vedas because there is a " Vedanga " > > > > named " Vedanga > > > > > > > Jyotisha " ! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Vedanga Jyotisha " is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th > > century > > > > BCE > > > > > > > compiled > > > > > > > in Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of calculating > > mean > > > > > > > tithi and > > > > > > > nakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the > > four > > > > > > > cardinal > > > > > > > points besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does not mention anything even by mistake about any > > planets > > > > like > > > > > > > Budha, > > > > > > > Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, > > Vrisha > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > Rashis! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic > > astrology > > > > > > just > > > > > > > because there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even > > know > > > > > > ABC > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > their own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some > > > > > > > overseas " Vamadevas " > > > > > > > are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and > > the > > > > > > > Vedangas > > > > > > > themselves first and then enter into discussions on such > > topics- > > > > -- > > > > > > > lest they > > > > > > > put on public display their lack of knowledge of their own > > > > shastras > > > > > > > otherwise! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is a challenge to all the " Vedic astrologers " the world > > > > over: > > > > > > > pl. > > > > > > > quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the > > Vedanga > > > > > > > Jyotisha or > > > > > > > the Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that > > > > matter, > > > > > > > the so > > > > > > > called Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, > > Vrisha > > > > etc. > > > > > > > Rashis > > > > > > > even by mistake! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta > > either > > > > > > prior > > > > > > > to the > > > > > > > Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets > > > > either > > > > > > in > > > > > > > any of > > > > > > > the Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to > > the > > > > Surya > > > > > > > Sidhatna of Maya the mlechha! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha > > etc. > > > > > > Rashis > > > > > > > in the > > > > > > > Mahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also > > > > > > > nakshatras times > > > > > > > without number! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as > > Vedic > > > > > > > astrology is > > > > > > > taking the Hindu community for a ride! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, > > > > Shani > > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > planets in the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana- > > > > walas, > > > > > > all > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > puranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of > > > > Vernal > > > > > > > Equinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar > > Sankanti > > > > as the > > > > > > > Uttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the > > year > > > > and > > > > > > so > > > > > > > on! > > > > > > > That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya > > > > > > Sidhanta > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > Makar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It > > > > > > > definitely > > > > > > > leads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc. > > > > Rashis > > > > > > > had been > > > > > > > imported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then > > > > later > > > > > > > incorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu " sishyas of > > > > > > > Varahamihira " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge > > for > > > > all > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Vedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world > > over! > > > > Let > > > > > > > them > > > > > > > quote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or > > Shastra > > > > that > > > > > > has > > > > > > > advised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on > > any > > > > plan! > > > > > > > On the > > > > > > > other hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that > > > > > > > any " nakshatra > > > > > > > soochi-brahman " must be treated as a chandala. That is > > exactly > > > > > > > contrary to > > > > > > > what Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita " Yavanas > > (like > > > > > > Maya > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > Surya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are > > > > > > mlechhas > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > because they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis " .! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the > > > > > > sidhantas > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > karna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the > > > > mlechha to > > > > > > > Graha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong > > > > orbital > > > > > > > elements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred > > > > years > > > > > > > back, > > > > > > > i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, > > panchangas > > > > in > > > > > > > Bharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works > > i.e. > > > > > > > sidhantas > > > > > > > and karna-granthas! That means that even those panchangas > > were > > > > > > > absolutely > > > > > > > wrong! And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong > > > > > > panchangas > > > > > > > till a > > > > > > > few decades back in India! What is most surprising is > > > > that " Vedic > > > > > > > astrologers " are shouting from housetops that our ancestors > > > > right > > > > > > from > > > > > > > Varahamihira to " my grandpa " made correct predictions and > > that > > > > is > > > > > > why > > > > > > > Hindu > > > > > > > astrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other > > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > world over! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was > > > > > > actually > > > > > > > thus > > > > > > > based on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we > > > > claim > > > > > > > that our > > > > > > > " ancestors " made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU > > ASTROLOGY > > > > > > > (KNOWN AS > > > > > > > VEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS " THE ART (OR IS IT > > > > > > THE 'SCIENCE'?) > > > > > > > OF > > > > > > > MAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no > > astrologer > > > > has > > > > > > > till > > > > > > > date predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!) > > > > would > > > > > > > take > > > > > > > place where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that > > your > > > > > > > namesake > > > > > > > late P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even > > > > hinted > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > Shri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More > > than a > > > > > > > decade > > > > > > > back, the Congress I had been written off by the " greatest > > Vedic > > > > > > > astrologer > > > > > > > of the twentieth century " in his Astrological Magazine and > > had > > > > > > > advised Smti. > > > > > > > Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! > > The > > > > > > editor > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > BABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA > > government > > > > would > > > > > > > not last > > > > > > > beyond more than six months after taking over the reins and > > it > > > > is > > > > > > > learnt > > > > > > > that on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even > > > > started > > > > > > > making > > > > > > > preparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around > > > > > > September > > > > > > > 2004! > > > > > > > They are, however, still waiting for that prediction to > > > > materialize > > > > > > > whereas > > > > > > > in the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's " is not keeping good > > health " -- > > > > - > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > which no jyotishi had " foreseen " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, > > does > > > > not > > > > > > > know even > > > > > > > his time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed > > that > > > > > > > he/she had > > > > > > > predicted that " Singh would be the king " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That also reminds me that the " greatest Vedic astrologer of > > the > > > > > > > twentieth > > > > > > > century " had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture > > on > > > > > > January > > > > > > > 3 of > > > > > > > the ensuing year on " Astrology as an aid to the diagnosis of > > > > heart > > > > > > > attacks " > > > > > > > but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of " Cardiac > > > > arrest " -- > > > > > > - > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > delivering that " astrologically planned " lecture! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His " Notable Horoscopes " gives the most incorrect planetary > > > > > > > longitudes of > > > > > > > all the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has > > made > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > " assessments " /predictions of all the charts in that work! > > That > > > > is > > > > > > > why I say > > > > > > > " Vedic astrologers can make correct predictions only from > > > > incorrect > > > > > > > data " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about > > themselves > > > > > > > correctly, > > > > > > > how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else > > > > properly? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is most damaging for these " Vedic astrologers " is the > > fact > > > > > > that > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > spite of their claims that they have been practicing the so > > > > called > > > > > > > nirayana > > > > > > > astrology at least over the last seven thousand years, > > (right > > > > from > > > > > > > the Vedic > > > > > > > times!) they are still unable to decide as to which > > ayanamsha, > > > > if > > > > > > > any, is > > > > > > > the correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen > > > > > > > ayanamshas like > > > > > > > Lahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari, > > > > Chopra, > > > > > > > Surya > > > > > > > Sidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even " zero " ayanamsha going > > around-- > > > > - > > > > > > each > > > > > > > claiming to give the maximum correct results! What they > > fail to > > > > > > > understand > > > > > > > that if any ayanamsha is correct, all the rest are > > incorrect! > > > > All > > > > > > of > > > > > > > them > > > > > > > can never be correct, though all of them can simultaneously > > be > > > > > > wrong! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that > > astrological > > > > > > > rashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their > > > > > > > imagination since > > > > > > > the Rashis have no existence actually/astronomic ally and > > that > > > > is > > > > > > why > > > > > > > we find > > > > > > > hundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat > > > > twelve > > > > > > > equal > > > > > > > segments/compartmen ts/divisions astronomically and that is > > why > > > > > > > whether it is > > > > > > > JPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give > > planetary > > > > > > > longitudes > > > > > > > in terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical > > works > > > > but > > > > > > > just the > > > > > > > longitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were > > > > taken as > > > > > > > rashis > > > > > > > (astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what > > was > > > > > > > imported into > > > > > > > India! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana > > > > rashis > > > > > > do > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > exist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy > > or > > > > > > > confusion > > > > > > > about sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist at all! It > > is > > > > thus a > > > > > > > confusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike > > the > > > > fake > > > > > > > Vamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus > > pocus > > > > > > and > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > did not need any astrological Rashis thus! The Vedic seers > > named > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > months just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons > > and > > > > to > > > > > > > four > > > > > > > cardinal points----i. e. the two Equinoxes and two > > Solstices! > > > > It is > > > > > > a > > > > > > > fallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so > > > > called > > > > > > > Sayana > > > > > > > or the so called nirayana and that is why we are all > > > > celebrating our > > > > > > > festivals and muhurtas on wrong days! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The most glaring example of the " benefits of 'Vedic > > astrology " > > > > is > > > > > > > that you, > > > > > > > the head-cum-founder- cum-owner of the group of " Vedic- > > > > astrology " > > > > > > > () > > > > > > > will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only > > because you > > > > > > are a > > > > > > > " Vedic astrologer " whereas actually, as per all the > > shastras by > > > > > > which > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > and your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on > > > > July > > > > > > 24! > > > > > > > Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating > > Pitra- > > > > > > > Amavasya on > > > > > > > the day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period > > > > which is > > > > > > > actually > > > > > > > suitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages > > during > > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > pitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will > > > > > > continue > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > take place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologers- and > > > > thereby > > > > > > the > > > > > > > whole > > > > > > > of Hindu community--- only because you believe in Mesha etc. > > > > Rashis- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > the so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire > > > > that > > > > > > the > > > > > > > rashi > > > > > > > based hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known > > as " Vedic > > > > > > > astrology " ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in " Vedic- > > > > astrology > > > > > > > () " > > > > > > > forum, you just summarily banned me from that group on the > > > > > > > recommendation of > > > > > > > some Western " Vedic astrologer " who was finding it > > difficult to > > > > > > > market his > > > > > > > trinkets through your forum after reading my arguments! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups. / group/HinduCalen dar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu > > community > > > > is > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > taken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the > > festivals on > > > > > > > wrong days > > > > > > > by " Vedic astrologers " just to make a fast buck or gain > > > > > > > some " reputation " . > > > > > > > You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum > > > > without > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > restrictions since the posts to that forum are not > > moderated at > > > > > > all! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some > > people, > > > > > > > including > > > > > > > you, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what intrigues me is > > your > > > > > > > silence and > > > > > > > the silence of other scholars about the various dates of > > birth > > > > of > > > > > > > Bhagwan > > > > > > > Rama according to " Vedic astrologers " ! Tfshey say He > > incarnated > > > > > > > anywhere > > > > > > > between 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is > > supposed > > > > to > > > > > > be > > > > > > > hundreds of thousands of years old! Even a " his holiness of > > the > > > > art > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > something " has " confirmed " (sic!) that the date of birth of > > > > Bhagwan > > > > > > > Ram > > > > > > > was/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared > > by an > > > > > > > Income Tax > > > > > > > Commissioner for that date! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing > > stock > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > entire > > > > > > > Hindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki > > Ramayana, > > > > on > > > > > > > the basis > > > > > > > of which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on > > January > > > > 14, > > > > > > > 5114 BCE > > > > > > > as per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000 > > > > years? > > > > > > > These > > > > > > > jyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In any case, predictive astrologers are requested that if > > > > predictive > > > > > > > gimmicks are a necessary evil for them and if they cannot > > > > survive > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > them just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, > > these > > > > > > > jyotishis must > > > > > > > at least leave the Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke > > > > their > > > > > > > filthy > > > > > > > nose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals > > and > > > > > > > muhurtas! Let > > > > > > > them go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or > > > > Maloo > > > > > > > will be > > > > > > > the PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas-- - > > but > > > > let > > > > > > > them just > > > > > > > step out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a > > > > > > > premonition that > > > > > > > they will not do so because whenever any seminar or > > conference > > > > is > > > > > > held > > > > > > > regarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably > > > > always > > > > > > > attended > > > > > > > by and presided over by " Vedic astrologers " with the result > > > > that we > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals > > as > > > > > > advised > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > Lahiri-walas instead of the shastras! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It thus goes without saying that I will have to continue > > > > my " Dharma- > > > > > > > yudha " > > > > > > > against " Vedic astrology " for streamlining the Hindu > > calendar--- > > > > > > > because the > > > > > > > real Vedic calendar and predictive gimmicks cannot exist > > side by > > > > > > side > > > > > > > in the > > > > > > > real Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > fact that > > > > > > > I have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I > > > > > > know " yato > > > > > > > dharmas tato jayah " ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web > > > > post > > > > > > > Messages in this topic (4) > > > > > > > 1c. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the > > Vedas! > > > > > > > Posted by: " Avtar Krishen Kaul " jyotirved@ a_krishen > > > > > > > Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:10 am (PDT) > > > > > > > Shri P. B. Phaninderji, > > > > > > > Nmaskar! > > > > > > > <astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY IN > > DIVERSITY if > > > > > > only > > > > > > > u care to observe! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you are confusing astrology with > > > > > > > astronomy/consmolog y/cosmogeny! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha > > paddathi > > > > > > would > > > > > > > certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the > > > > specific > > > > > > > question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras > > > > etc.,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is " Prasna Bhagha paddathi " which works without rashis > > and > > > > > > > nakshatras etc.? I am hearing about it for the first time. > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Phanindar pb > > > > > > > <pbphanindar@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear AKK > > > > > > > > Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for > > > > mumdane > > > > > > > predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know > > the > > > > UNITY > > > > > > > IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to > > > > continue > > > > > > ur > > > > > > > DHARMA YUDDAM!? However, predictive astrology based on > > Prasna > > > > > > Bhagha > > > > > > > paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in > > > > > > answering > > > > > > > the specific question since it has nothing to do with > > Rashis, > > > > > > > Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info > > > > > > > > With best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.B.Phanindar > > > > > > > > Chartered Accountant > > > > > > > > 99893 99195 > > > > > > > > 98662 21340 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..> > > > > > > > > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " - - - > > the > > > > > > greatest > > > > > > > fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " > > > > > > <jyotirved@ ..> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic > > > > > > astrology " - > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, > > posted by > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web > > > > post > > > > > > > Messages in this topic (4) > > > > > > > 1d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the > > Vedas! > > > > > > > Posted by: " Phanindar pb " pbphanindar@ pbphanindar > > > > > > > Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:37 am (PDT) > > > > > > > Dear AKK > > > > > > > There is no confusion whatsoever in my mind when I said that > > > > > > through Astrology we can achieve Unity in diversity. We are > > able > > > > to > > > > > > understand oneness of this universe through the science of > > > > astrology > > > > > > to that extent it is fine! the only problem is applying this > > > > > > knowledge 4 mundane and reducing it to fortune telling to the > > > > > > individual level only has brought disrespect to the science!Á > > The > > > > is > > > > > > always perfect however, the scientist can always go wrong! > > > > > > > Regarding PBP it is based on Prasna sastra of Kalidasa > > > > synthesysed > > > > > > by KP and PBP! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.B.Phanindar > > > > > > > Chartered Accountant > > > > > > > 99893 99195 > > > > > > > 98662 21340 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) > > com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> > > > > > > > Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " -- > > -the > > > > > > greatest fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 9:40 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri P. B. Phaninderji, > > > > > > > Nmaskar! > > > > > > > <astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY IN > > DIVERSITY if > > > > > > only > > > > > > > u care to observe! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you are confusing astrology with > > > > > > > astronomy/consmolog y/cosmogeny! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha > > paddathi > > > > > > would > > > > > > > certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the > > > > specific > > > > > > > question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras > > > > etc.,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is " Prasna Bhagha paddathi " which works without rashis > > and > > > > > > > nakshatras etc.? I am hearing about it for the first time. > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Phanindar pb > > > > > > > <pbphanindar@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear AKK > > > > > > > > Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for > > > > mumdane > > > > > > > predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know > > the > > > > UNITY > > > > > > > IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to > > > > continue > > > > > > ur > > > > > > > DHARMA YUDDAM!? However, predictive astrology based on > > Prasna > > > > > > Bhagha > > > > > > > paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in > > > > > > answering > > > > > > > the specific question since it has nothing to do with > > Rashis, > > > > > > > Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info > > > > > > > > With best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.B.Phanindar > > > > > > > > Chartered Accountant > > > > > > > > 99893 99195 > > > > > > > > 98662 21340 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..> > > > > > > > > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " - - - > > the > > > > > > greatest > > > > > > > fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " > > > > > > <jyotirved@ ..> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-j > > ... > > > > [Message clipped] > > > > > -- > TKP Ghopal > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road, > I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001 > 93666 23444 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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