RE: Vedic asrology---the greatest fradu on the Vedas!

August 24, 2008

Dear

Shri N. R. Joshiji,

Namaskar!

Many

thanks for your response to my post at WAVES-Vedic.

Since

my post had appeared on a forum where you read it, it would have been much

appreciated if you had posted your views on that forum itself, as there could

be an open discussion on the topic then.

Any

way, let me reply your points briefly:

< Let us

assume that Vedic astrology is fraud because of the word Vedic.>

Glad

that you agree on that point!

<

Let us assume that Nirayan astrology does not work. Let us not argue on

that.>

It is immaterial and irrelevant to the topic of

calendar reform whether the so called Sayana astrology works or not since that astrology

is not Vedic either as there are no rashis at all in the Vedas, which means the

nirayana and sayana dichotomy has actually been created by Western and Eastern

astrologers!

< I have a simple question.

According to Daate Panchanga, today is the birthday of Bhagavan Krishna >

Almost

all the panchangas these days, whether Daate or Janmabhoomi etc. are actually

Lahiri panchangas, since they are all based on Rashtriya Panchanga, which

itself is going as per “almighty” Lahiri Ayanamsha! In Maharashtra itself, there is also a Tilaka Panchanga,

which is on a different Ayanamsha! That panchanga claims to be the one based

on the shastras! Obviously, both of them i.e. Daate and Tialaka Panchangas

cannot be correct simultaneously, though both of them can be wrong at one and

the same time!

< In

Panchang, today SUN is in Sinha rashi and Chandra in Vrishabha Rashi. Around

Midnight the rising sign will be Vrishabha rashi. Here is question-Do you see

the qualities of Sinha and Vrishabha as described in the Western Saayana

astrology in the character of Krishna?>

Dear Joshiji!

Janmashtami was actually on July 25 since that was the real Bhadra (Shravana

for Mukhya-mana) Krishna Ashtami! Anyway, you want me to do the “rectification”

of the birth-chart of Bhagwan Krishna---that is at least the astrological

jargon! I would be glad to oblige you there also but before that you have to

quote the exact sholkas where it has been said that Bhagwan Krishna was born

with the sun in Simha or any other rashi for that matter---and the Moon in Vrishaba—or

again, any other rashi for that matter! I know you cannot quote any shastras

since there are no such sholkas in any of our shastras! As such, all you are

doing is exhibiting your ignorance of the shastras by which you swear! That is

actually the case with all the “Vedic astrologers”---whether the so

called Sayana or the so called nirayana!

<

Dear Shree Kaul, you are expert. However it takes time for others to digest

your findings. Many educated Indians have knowledge of Vernal and Winter

equinoxes. They know that each month the SUN changes Rashi around 20-23 date of

the month.>

I wish you had read my posts fully before trying

to contradict its contents! The Vedic calendar is actually the simplest

one---the easiest that could ever exist! There are just Madhu, Madhava etc. 12

months all clubbed with respective six seasons! Lunar months of Chaitra,

Vaishakha follow the solar months. The year during the Vedanga Jyotisha Era

started from the Uttarayana---and we do/did not need either Lahiri or Ramana or

any NASA/JPL etc. to calculate such a simple phenomenon! We need all the

Lahiris and Ramans and JPL/NASA etc. only when we say that we have to celebrate

Makara Sankranti or Karkata Sankranti etc.! The moment you utter the word “Makara”

etc., hundreds of questions arise: Is it Lahiri Makara or Ramana Makara or

Tialaka Makara or Fagan makara or the so called Sayana Makara and if so why?

There is no such confusion with either the Uttarayana/Dakshinayana etc. or the

Vedic months of Tapah etc.. As such, I do not see as to why it should take an intelligent

person like you such a long time to grasp such a simple geographical principle!

<Next question-Do you exactly

know the calendar ancient Greeks were following? Do you know that before Greeks

that part of islands and Thrace

was occupied by Pelasgi who migrated there from Asia Minor?>

The

question is not as to what calendar the Greeks were/are following or as to who

occupied Thrace

and Pelasgi and when! They are all irrelevant to the Vedic calendar!

The sad

fact, however, is that the Surya Sidhanta, the accursed work that “taught”

India the methodology of calculating planetary longitudes vis-à-vis Mesha,

Vrisha etc. rashis, was actually by Maya, a Greek (Yavana!) jyotishi and

Varahamihira himself has called Yavanas as mlechhas! Being a mlechha, Maya

claimed that he had got all the knowledge of the Surya Sidhanta from Surya Bhagwan

himself! A liar of first order he was thus and that is what made us fall hook,

line and sinker for his ploy! Can you imagine that we in India never

questioned Maya’s credentials as tow ehther he was really the student of

Surya Bhagwan, just as these days we do not question the credentials of any

Tom, Dick and Harry when they claim themselves to be “reincarnations”

of Vamadevas and Parasharas etc. just because we feel that they are propagating

“Vedic astrology” when actually all that breed of new “Vamadevas”

and “Parasharas” are laughing at our ignorance that we do not even

know that there are no Mesha etc. Rashis or Mangal, Shani etc. planets in the

Vedas!

Similarly,

Sphujidwaja’s yavana Jatakam is the first “indigenous”

astrological work of Phalita Jyotisha and Sphujidwaja also was a “Yavana”—a

mlechha, in the words of Varahamihira!

Regarding

“nirayana-sayana” controversy, I am copying below a post which

appeared in the HinduCalendar forum a copule of days back. I would also

request you to join HinduCalendar forum for a thorough discussion on the topic

of calendar reform. Posts to that forum are not moderated and as such,

irrespective of what your views are, they will be welcome and discussed

thoroughly!

With regards,

Avtar Krishen Kaul

*** **** *** ***

Copy of post from Hinducalendar)

Re: " Vedic

astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

Sushri Dipika ji,

Namaskar!

My journey through jyotisha---phalita, of course!---labyrinth has

been a real evolutionary one! To start with, I was an astro-buff

like my maternal grandfather, who could make correct predictions from

horoscopes prepared from Makaranda/Grahalaghava panchangas---the most

ludicrous astronomical works, next only to Maya the mlechha's Surya

Sidhanta!

Later, I found from the Puranas and also the sidhantas (the Surya

Sidahnta was a divine work for me also till about a decade back!)

that they all referred to a (so called) Sayana rashichakra! It means

that Sayana astrology i.e. the one based on the so called Sayana

rashis could be the real Vedic astrology and it could be the only

rashichakra which was to be followed for festivals etc.! Like the

Surya Sidhanta, I also clubbed the start of Ashvini nakshatra with

Meshaarambha i.e. the Vernal Equinox then, quite oblivious of the

fact that that just could not be possible.

That dichotomy was pointed out by a gentleman Shri Paul Kekai

Manansala that the Vedic Seers could never have clubbed the real

nakshatras with imaginary Sayana Rashis! Since his argument was quite

logical, and being a seeker of Truth instead of just a Phalita

jyotishi, whether Sayana-Vedic or nirayana-Vedic,I had willy-nilly to

go through the entire gamut of rashis and nakshatras and calendar

making all over again! I could not find any Mesha etc. Rashis in any

of the Vedas nor in any original astronomicl indigenous work like the

Rik-Jyotisham (also known as Vedanga Jyotisha) or Yajur Jyotisha or

even the so called Atharva-Jyotisha or any of the sidhantas of the

pre-Surya Sidhana era! It was thus clear that Mesha etc. Rashis---

whether the so called Sayana or the so called Nirayana, had been

imported into India

from somewhere else as they were conspicuous by

their absence from all the Vedic and post-Vedic works upto about

fourth century BCE!

This fact of rashis having been imported into India from somewhre

else had actualy been confirmed by all the prominent scholars like S.

B. Dikshit, Dr. M. N. Saha, Sri Sarma etc. etc. already and has now

been re-confirmed by Dr. R. N. Iyengar in his archaeo-astronomy

papers!

Since my main aims was to streamline the Hindu calnear, I found that

there was thus a direct conflict between the Mesha etc. Rashis and

the Hindu calendar since if the Rashis were taken as Sayana, they

could not be linked to nakshatras at all, and if we take them as

nirayana rashis---out of hunreds of nirayana aynamshas---none of them

could be linked to the seasons! That is why the real Vamadevas never

had any requirement of any Mesha etc. Rashis, since for them

Madhu/Chaitra, Madhava/Vaishkaha etc. 12 months coupled with Vasanta

etc. six Ritus and the four cardinal points viz. the two solstices

and two equinoxes was more than sufficient for deciding their fasts

and festivals!

For krittika etc. nakshatras, the Seers did not need any Mesha etc.

Rashis since the nakshatras had an indpendent existence for them!

Thus it is only phalita jyotishsis who need rashis---whether Sayana

or nirayana---for their survival---and not the real Vedic calendar!

And since the phalita-walas cannot do without Mesha etc. Rashis, they

just thrust them on the Hindu calendar/festivals also because they

know that unles and until they attach some religious siginificance to

those imaginary Rashis, nobody is going to take their phalit hocus-

pocus seriously! That is how there is a direct conflict between the

real Vedic calendar and the unreal " Vedic astrologers " . And that is

why these jyotishis attend every conference/seminar for streamlining

the Hindu calendar and it is only the " most successful Vedic

astrologer " who presides over such conferences/seminars! We have

thus been always back to square one after such innumerable

conferencess and seminars! It will be clear from PAC3.doc from the

files section!

<This was claimed by one of Astrologers who went through your article

on http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm>

As explained above, in a sort of way, that " claim " of

that " astrologer " was correct as on that date when I had written that

article! It was a similr situation with the members of the

then " All India Calendar Reform Committee " who had joined that

committee only to " show to the whole world that sayana was the real

predictive system of Vedic astrology " rather than celebrating the

festivals on correct days! I am sure most of them do not celebrate

festivals o corect days even today though they practise " sayana Vedic

astrology " ! That is why I resigned from that Committee as its

president since that " Aryasamaja-wala astrologer " and also

the " Committee-wale astrologers " have got just stuck with that

stance of mine whereas I have continued on my journey after

jettisoning such mill-stones around the neck by the roadiside.

With regards,

AKK

giravani [giravani]

Sunday, August 24, 2008

12:58 AM

jyotirved

From N.R.Joshi

August

23, 2008

Dear

Shree Avtar K. Kaul, Namaste!

Let us

assume that Vedic astrology is fraud because of the word Vedic. Let us

assume that Nirayan astrology does not work. Let us not argue on that.

I

read your postings on WVES-Vedic website. I have a simple question. According

to Daate Panchanga, today is the birthday of Bhagavan Krishna. In Panchang, today

SUN is in Sinha rashi and Chandra in Vrishabha Rashi. Around Midnight the

rising sign will be Vrishabha rashi. Here is question-Do you see the qualities

of Sinha and Vrishabha as described in the Western Saayana astrology in the

character of Krishna? Please give me answer

YES or NO?

Dear

Shree Kaul, you are expert. However it takes time for others to digest your

findings. Many educated Indians have knowledge of Vernal and Winter equinoxes.

They know that each month the SUN changes Rashi around 20-23 date of the month.

know that before Greeks that part of islands and Thrace

was occupied by Pelasgi who migrated there from Asia Minor?

Thwanks N.R.Joshi.

__________

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September 1, 2008

, " jyotirved "

<jyotirved wrote:

Dear Shri N. R. Joshiji,

Namaskar!

Many thanks for your response to my post at WAVES-Vedic.

Since my post had appeared on a forum where you read it, it would

have been

much appreciated if you had posted your views on that forum itself,

as there

could be an open discussion on the topic then.

Any way, let me reply your points briefly:

< Let us assume that Vedic astrology is fraud because of the word

Vedic.>

Glad that you agree on that point!

< Let us assume that Nirayan astrology does not work. Let us not

argue on

that.>

It is immaterial and irrelevant to the topic of calendar reform

whether the

so called Sayana astrology works or not since that astrology is not

Vedic

either as there are no rashis at all in the Vedas, which means the

nirayana

and sayana dichotomy has actually been created by Western and Eastern

astrologers!

< I have a simple question. According to Daate Panchanga, today is the

birthday of Bhagavan Krishna >

Almost all the panchangas these days, whether Daate or Janmabhoomi

etc. are

actually Lahiri panchangas, since they are all based on Rashtriya

Panchanga,

which itself is going as per " almighty " Lahiri Ayanamsha! In

Maharashtra

itself, there is also a Tilaka Panchanga, which is on a different

Ayanamsha!

That panchanga claims to be the one based on the shastras!

Obviously, both

of them i.e. Daate and Tialaka Panchangas cannot be correct

simultaneously,

though both of them can be wrong at one and the same time!

< In Panchang, today SUN is in Sinha rashi and Chandra in Vrishabha

Rashi.

Around Midnight the rising sign will be Vrishabha rashi. Here is

question-Do

you see the qualities of Sinha and Vrishabha as described in the

Western

Saayana astrology in the character of Krishna?>

Dear Joshiji! Janmashtami was actually on July 25 since that was the

real

Bhadra (Shravana for Mukhya-mana) Krishna Ashtami! Anyway, you want

me to

do the " rectification " of the birth-chart of Bhagwan Krishna---that

is at

least the astrological jargon! I would be glad to oblige you there

also but

before that you have to quote the exact sholkas where it has been

said that

Bhagwan Krishna was born with the sun in Simha or any other rashi for

that

matter---and the Moon in Vrishaba—or again, any other rashi for that

matter!

I know you cannot quote any shastras since there are no such sholkas

in any

of our shastras! As such, all you are doing is exhibiting your

ignorance of

the shastras by which you swear! That is actually the case with all

the

" Vedic astrologers " ---whether the so called Sayana or the so called

nirayana!

< Dear Shree Kaul, you are expert. However it takes time for others to

digest your findings. Many educated Indians have knowledge of Vernal

and

Winter equinoxes. They know that each month the SUN changes Rashi

around

20-23 date of the month.>

I wish you had read my posts fully before trying to contradict its

contents! The Vedic calendar is actually the simplest one---the

easiest

that could ever exist! There are just Madhu, Madhava etc. 12 months

all

clubbed with respective six seasons! Lunar months of Chaitra,

Vaishakha

follow the solar months. The year during the Vedanga Jyotisha Era

started

from the Uttarayana---and we do/did not need either Lahiri or Ramana

or any

NASA/JPL etc. to calculate such a simple phenomenon! We need all the

Lahiris and Ramans and JPL/NASA etc. only when we say that we have to

celebrate Makara Sankranti or Karkata Sankranti etc.! The moment you

utter

the word " Makara " etc., hundreds of questions arise: Is it Lahiri

Makara or

Ramana Makara or Tialaka Makara or Fagan makara or the so called

Sayana

Makara and if so why? There is no such confusion with either the

Uttarayana/Dakshinayana etc. or the Vedic months of Tapah etc.. As

such, I

do not see as to why it should take an intelligent person like you

such a

long time to grasp such a simple geographical principle!

<Next question-Do you exactly know the calendar ancient Greeks were

following? Do you know that before Greeks that part of islands and

Thrace

was occupied by Pelasgi who migrated there from Asia Minor?>

The question is not as to what calendar the Greeks were/are following

or as

to who occupied Thrace and Pelasgi and when! They are all irrelevant

to the

Vedic calendar!

The sad fact, however, is that the Surya Sidhanta, the accursed work

that

" taught " India the methodology of calculating planetary longitudes

vis-à-vis

Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis, was actually by Maya, a Greek (Yavana!)

jyotishi

and Varahamihira himself has called Yavanas as mlechhas! Being a

mlechha,

Maya claimed that he had got all the knowledge of the Surya Sidhanta

from

Surya Bhagwan himself! A liar of first order he was thus and that is

what

made us fall hook, line and sinker for his ploy! Can you imagine

that we in

India never questioned Maya's credentials as tow ehther he was really

the

student of Surya Bhagwan, just as these days we do not question the

credentials of any Tom, Dick and Harry when they claim themselves to

be

" reincarnations " of Vamadevas and Parasharas etc. just because we

feel that

they are propagating " Vedic astrology " when actually all that breed

of new

" Vamadevas " and " Parasharas " are laughing at our ignorance that we

do not

even know that there are no Mesha etc. Rashis or Mangal, Shani etc.

planets

in the Vedas!

Similarly, Sphujidwaja's yavana Jatakam is the first " indigenous "

astrological work of Phalita Jyotisha and Sphujidwaja also was

a " Yavana " —a

mlechha, in the words of Varahamihira!

Regarding " nirayana-sayana " controversy, I am copying below a post

which

appeared in the HinduCalendar forum a copule of days back. I would

also

request you to join HinduCalendar forum for a thorough discussion on

the

topic of calendar reform. Posts to that forum are not moderated and

as

such, irrespective of what your views are, they will be welcome and

discussed thoroughly!

With regards,

Avtar Krishen Kaul

*** ****

*** ***

Copy of post from Hinducalendar)

Re: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!