Digest Number 119

August 23, 2008

Dear ALL

I am very pained that some people are holding our relegion and the shashtra in contempt.

I am an astrologer and making accurate predictions not once but everytime is no coincidence.

I joined this forum to enhance my knowledge but I find that this forum has been formed to bring discredit to our great astrologers even of the current time.

I see no point in being a part of this forum and become a party to some people who name themselves as brahmins ........ .

GOODBYE.--- On Sat, 23/8/08, wrote:

Digest Number 119 Date: Saturday, 23 August, 2008, 2:48 PM

Science of Vedic astrology

Messages In This Digest (11 Messages)

1a.

Fwd: "Vedic astrology"---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! Avtar Krishen Kaul

1b.

Re: Fwd: "Vedic astrology"---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! Phanindar pb

1c.

Re: Fwd: "Vedic astrology"---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! Avtar Krishen Kaul

1d.

Re: Fwd: "Vedic astrology"---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! Phanindar pb

2a.

Re: FAMILY PROBLEM Phanindar pb

2b.

Re: FAMILY PROBLEM dipika blr

2c.

Re: FAMILY PROBLEM dipika blr

2d.

Re: FAMILY PROBLEM dilip mukherjee

3a.

Fwd: [HinduCalendar] "Vedic astrology"---the greatest fraud on the V dipika blr

3b.

Re: Fwd: [HinduCalendar] "Vedic astrology"---the greatest fraud on t Avtar Krishen Kaul

4a.

Fwd: Re: [Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad] Eclipses and fear psychosis Avtar Krishen Kaul

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Messages

1a.

Fwd: "Vedic astrology"---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

Posted by: "Avtar Krishen Kaul" jyotirved a_krishen

Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:28 am (PDT)

HinduCalendar, "jyotirved" <jyotirved@. ..> wrote:Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,Many thanks for your comments on my article/post "Vedic astrology"-thegreatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by you in July2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008!I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge of "Vedic astrologers"about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why they callthemselves "Vedic astrologers" ! They base their claims of astrology beingan "anga" of the Vedas because there is a "Vedanga" named "VedangaJyotisha"! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts!"Vedanga Jyotisha" is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th century BCE compiledin Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology

of calculating mean tithi andnakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the four cardinalpoints besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months!It does not mention anything even by mistake about any planets like Budha,Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis!Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology justbecause there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even know ABC oftheir own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some overseas "Vamadevas"are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and the Vedangasthemselves first and then enter into discussions on such topics---lest theyput on public display their lack of knowledge of their own shastrasotherwise!Here is a challenge to all the "Vedic astrologers" the world over: pl.quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the

Vedanga Jyotisha orthe Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that matter, the socalled Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashiseven by mistake!We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta either prior to theSurya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika!We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets either in any ofthe Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to the SuryaSidhatna of Maya the mlechha!Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in theMahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also nakshatras timeswithout number! Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology istaking the Hindu community for a ride!We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, Shani etc.planets in

the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana-walas, all thepuranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of VernalEquinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar Sankanti as theUttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year and so on!That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya Sidhanta whereMakar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It definitelyleads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis had beenimported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then laterincorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu "sishyas of Varahamihira" .Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge for all theVedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world over! Let themquote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or Shastra that hasadvised us to consult some soothsayer before

embarking on any plan! On theother hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that any "nakshatrasoochi-brahman" must be treated as a chandala. That is exactly contrary towhat Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita "Yavanas (like Maya of theSurya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are mlechhas butbecause they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis".!Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the sidhantas andkarna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha toGraha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong orbitalelements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred years back,i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, panchangas inBharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works i.e. sidhantasand karna-granthas! That means that even those panchangas were absolutelywrong!

And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong panchangas till afew decades back in India! What is most surprising is that "Vedicastrologers" are shouting from housetops that our ancestors right fromVarahamihira to "my grandpa" made correct predictions and that is why Hinduastrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other astrology theworld over! Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was actually thusbased on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we claim that our"ancestors" made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU ASTROLOGY (KNOWN ASVEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS "THE ART (OR IS IT THE 'SCIENCE'?) OFMAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA"Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that? Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no astrologer has tilldate predicted as to which earthquake or

disaster (tsunami!) would takeplace where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that your namesakelate P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even hinted thatShri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More than a decadeback, the Congress I had been written off by the "greatest Vedic astrologerof the twentieth century" in his Astrological Magazine and had advised Smti.Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! The editor ofBABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA government would not lastbeyond more than six months after taking over the reins and it is learntthat on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even started makingpreparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around September 2004!They are, however, still waiting for that prediction to materialize whereasin the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's

"is not keeping good health"---somethingwhich no jyotishi had "foreseen".That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, does not know evenhis time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed that he/she hadpredicted that "Singh would be the king".That also reminds me that the "greatest Vedic astrologer of the twentiethcentury" had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture on January 3 ofthe ensuing year on "Astrology as an aid to the diagnosis of heart attacks"but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of "Cardiac arrest"--- todelivering that "astrologically planned" lecture!His "Notable Horoscopes" gives the most incorrect planetary longitudes ofall the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has made correct"assessments" /predictions of all the charts in that work! That is why I say"Vedic astrologers can make correct

predictions only from incorrect data".If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about themselves correctly,how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else properly? What is most damaging for these "Vedic astrologers" is the fact that inspite of their claims that they have been practicing the so called nirayanaastrology at least over the last seven thousand years, (right from the Vedictimes!) they are still unable to decide as to which ayanamsha, if any, isthe correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen ayanamshas likeLahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari, Chopra, SuryaSidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even "zero" ayanamsha going around---eachclaiming to give the maximum correct results! What they fail to understandthat if any ayanamsha is correct, all the rest are incorrect! All of themcan never be correct, though all

of them can simultaneously be wrong!These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that astrologicalrashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their imagination sincethe Rashis have no existence actually/astronomic ally and that is why we findhundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat twelve equalsegments/compartmen ts/divisions astronomically and that is why whether it isJPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give planetary longitudesin terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical works but just thelongitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees! It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were taken as rashis(astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what was imported intoIndia! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana rashis do notexist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy or

confusionabout sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist at all! It is thus aconfusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West!The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike the fakeVamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus pocus and theydid not need any astrological Rashis thus! The Vedic seers named the Vedicmonths just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons and to fourcardinal points----i. e. the two Equinoxes and two Solstices! It is afallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so called Sayanaor the so called nirayana and that is why we are all celebrating ourfestivals and muhurtas on wrong days! The most glaring example of the "benefits of 'Vedic astrology" is that you,the head-cum-founder- cum-owner of the group of "Vedic-astrology" ()will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only because

you are a"Vedic astrologer" whereas actually, as per all the shastras by which youand your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on July 24!Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating Pitra-Amavasya onthe day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period which is actuallysuitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages during actualpitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will continue totake place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologers- and thereby the wholeof Hindu community--- only because you believe in Mesha etc. Rashis---whetherthe so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire that the rashibased hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known as "Vedic astrology"!When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in "Vedic-astrology ()"forum, you just summarily banned me from that group

on the recommendation ofsome Western "Vedic astrologer" who was finding it difficult to market histrinkets through your forum after reading my arguments!However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join http://groups. / group/HinduCalen darforum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu community is beingtaken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the festivals on wrong daysby "Vedic astrologers" just to make a fast buck or gain some "reputation" .You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum without anyrestrictions since the posts to that forum are not moderated at all! I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some people, includingyou, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what intrigues me is your silence andthe silence of other

scholars about the various dates of birth of BhagwanRama according to "Vedic astrologers" ! Tfshey say He incarnated anywherebetween 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is supposed to behundreds of thousands of years old! Even a "his holiness of the art ofsomething" has "confirmed" (sic!) that the date of birth of Bhagwan Ramwas/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared by an Income TaxCommissioner for that date!Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing stock of the entireHindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki Ramayana, on the basisof which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on January 14, 5114 BCEas per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000 years? Thesejyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well!In any case, predictive astrologers are requested that if predictivegimmicks are a

necessary evil for them and if they cannot survive withoutthem just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, these jyotishis mustat least leave the Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke their filthynose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals and muhurtas! Letthem go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or Maloo will bethe PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas-- -but let them juststep out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a premonition thatthey will not do so because whenever any seminar or conference is heldregarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably always attendedby and presided over by "Vedic astrologers" with the result that we arealways back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals as advised byLahiri-walas instead of the shastras!It thus goes without saying that I will have

to continue my "Dharma-yudha"against "Vedic astrology" for streamlining the Hindu calendar---because thereal Vedic calendar and predictive gimmicks cannot exist side by side in thereal Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite of the fact thatI have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I know "yatodharmas tato jayah"!With regards,AKK--- End forwarded message ---

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1b.

Re: Fwd: "Vedic astrology"---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

Posted by: "Phanindar pb" pbphanindar pbphanindar

Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:09 am (PDT)

Dear AKKThough I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for mumdane predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to continue ur DHARMA YUDDAM!Ð° However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur infoWith best wishesP.B.PhanindarChartered Accountant99893 9919598662 21340--- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> wrote:Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> Fwd: "Vedic astrology"-- -the greatest fraud on the Vedas!Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PMHinduCalendar, "jyotirved" <jyotirved@. ..> wrote:Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,Many thanks for your comments on my article/post "Vedic astrology"-thegreatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by you in July2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008!I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge of "Vedic astrologers"about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why they callthemselves "Vedic astrologers" ! They base their claims of astrology beingan "anga" of the Vedas because there is a "Vedanga" named "VedangaJyotisha"! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts!"Vedanga Jyotisha" is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th century

BCE compiledin Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of calculating mean tithi andnakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the four cardinalpoints besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months!It does not mention anything even by mistake about any planets like Budha,Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis!Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology justbecause there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even know ABC oftheir own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some overseas "Vamadevas"are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and the Vedangasthemselves first and then enter into discussions on such topics---lest theyput on public display their lack of knowledge of their own shastrasotherwise!Here is a challenge to all the "Vedic astrologers" the world over:

pl.quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha orthe Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that matter, the socalled Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashiseven by mistake!We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta either prior to theSurya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika!We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets either in any ofthe Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to the SuryaSidhatna of Maya the mlechha!Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in theMahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also nakshatras timeswithout number! Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology istaking the Hindu community for a ride!We do find mention of

Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, Shani etc.planets in the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana-walas, all thepuranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of VernalEquinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar Sankanti as theUttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year and so on!That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya Sidhanta whereMakar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It definitelyleads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis had beenimported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then laterincorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu "sishyas of Varahamihira" .Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge for all theVedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world over! Let themquote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or

Shastra that hasadvised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on any plan! On theother hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that any "nakshatrasoochi-brahman" must be treated as a chandala. That is exactly contrary towhat Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita "Yavanas (like Maya of theSurya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are mlechhas butbecause they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis".!Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the sidhantas andkarna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha toGraha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong orbitalelements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred years back,i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, panchangas inBharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works i.e. sidhantasand karna-granthas!

That means that even those panchangas were absolutelywrong! And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong panchangas till afew decades back in India! What is most surprising is that "Vedicastrologers" are shouting from housetops that our ancestors right fromVarahamihira to "my grandpa" made correct predictions and that is why Hinduastrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other astrology theworld over! Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was actually thusbased on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we claim that our"ancestors" made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU ASTROLOGY (KNOWN ASVEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS "THE ART (OR IS IT THE 'SCIENCE'?) OFMAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA"Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that? Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no

astrologer has tilldate predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!) would takeplace where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that your namesakelate P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even hinted thatShri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More than a decadeback, the Congress I had been written off by the "greatest Vedic astrologerof the twentieth century" in his Astrological Magazine and had advised Smti.Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! The editor ofBABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA government would not lastbeyond more than six months after taking over the reins and it is learntthat on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even started makingpreparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around September 2004!They are, however, still waiting for that

prediction to materialize whereasin the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's "is not keeping good health"---somethingwhich no jyotishi had "foreseen".That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, does not know evenhis time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed that he/she hadpredicted that "Singh would be the king".That also reminds me that the "greatest Vedic astrologer of the twentiethcentury" had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture on January 3 ofthe ensuing year on "Astrology as an aid to the diagnosis of heart attacks"but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of "Cardiac arrest"--- todelivering that "astrologically planned" lecture!His "Notable Horoscopes" gives the most incorrect planetary longitudes ofall the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has made correct"assessments" /predictions of all the charts in

that work! That is why I say"Vedic astrologers can make correct predictions only from incorrect data".If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about themselves correctly,how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else properly? What is most damaging for these "Vedic astrologers" is the fact that inspite of their claims that they have been practicing the so called nirayanaastrology at least over the last seven thousand years, (right from the Vedictimes!) they are still unable to decide as to which ayanamsha, if any, isthe correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen ayanamshas likeLahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari, Chopra, SuryaSidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even "zero" ayanamsha going around---eachclaiming to give the maximum correct results! What they fail to understandthat if any ayanamsha is correct, all the

rest are incorrect! All of themcan never be correct, though all of them can simultaneously be wrong!These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that astrologicalrashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their imagination sincethe Rashis have no existence actually/astronomic ally and that is why we findhundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat twelve equalsegments/compartmen ts/divisions astronomically and that is why whether it isJPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give planetary longitudesin terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical works but just thelongitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees! It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were taken as rashis(astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what was imported intoIndia! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana rashis do

notexist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy or confusionabout sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist at all! It is thus aconfusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West!The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike the fakeVamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus pocus and theydid not need any astrological Rashis thus! The Vedic seers named the Vedicmonths just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons and to fourcardinal points----i. e. the two Equinoxes and two Solstices! It is afallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so called Sayanaor the so called nirayana and that is why we are all celebrating ourfestivals and muhurtas on wrong days! The most glaring example of the "benefits of 'Vedic astrology" is that you,the head-cum-founder- cum-owner of the group of "Vedic-astrology"

()will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only because you are a"Vedic astrologer" whereas actually, as per all the shastras by which youand your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on July 24!Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating Pitra-Amavasya onthe day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period which is actuallysuitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages during actualpitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will continue totake place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologers- and thereby the wholeof Hindu community--- only because you believe in Mesha etc. Rashis---whetherthe so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire that the rashibased hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known as "Vedic astrology"!When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in

"Vedic-astrology ()"forum, you just summarily banned me from that group on the recommendation ofsome Western "Vedic astrologer" who was finding it difficult to market histrinkets through your forum after reading my arguments!However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join http://groups. / group/HinduCalen darforum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu community is beingtaken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the festivals on wrong daysby "Vedic astrologers" just to make a fast buck or gain some "reputation" .You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum without anyrestrictions since the posts to that forum are not moderated at all! I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some people, includingyou, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what

intrigues me is your silence andthe silence of other scholars about the various dates of birth of BhagwanRama according to "Vedic astrologers" ! Tfshey say He incarnated anywherebetween 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is supposed to behundreds of thousands of years old! Even a "his holiness of the art ofsomething" has "confirmed" (sic!) that the date of birth of Bhagwan Ramwas/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared by an Income TaxCommissioner for that date!Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing stock of the entireHindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki Ramayana, on the basisof which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on January 14, 5114 BCEas per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000 years? Thesejyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well!In any case, predictive

astrologers are requested that if predictivegimmicks are a necessary evil for them and if they cannot survive withoutthem just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, these jyotishis mustat least leave the Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke their filthynose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals and muhurtas! Letthem go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or Maloo will bethe PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas-- -but let them juststep out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a premonition thatthey will not do so because whenever any seminar or conference is heldregarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably always attendedby and presided over by "Vedic astrologers" with the result that we arealways back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals as advised byLahiri-walas instead of

the shastras!It thus goes without saying that I will have to continue my "Dharma-yudha"against "Vedic astrology" for streamlining the Hindu calendar---because thereal Vedic calendar and predictive gimmicks cannot exist side by side in thereal Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite of the fact thatI have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I know "yatodharmas tato jayah"!With regards,AKK--- End forwarded message ---

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1c.

Re: Fwd: "Vedic astrology"---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

Posted by: "Avtar Krishen Kaul" jyotirved a_krishen

Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:10 am (PDT)

Shri P. B. Phaninderji,Nmaskar!<astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! >It appears you are confusing astrology with astronomy/consmolog y/cosmogeny!<However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras etc.,>What is "Prasna Bhagha paddathi" which works without rashis and nakshatras etc.? I am hearing about it for the first time.Regards,AKK, Phanindar pb <pbphanindar@ ...> wrote:>> Dear AKK> Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for mumdane predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us

to know the UNITY IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to continue ur DHARMA YUDDAM!? However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info> With best wishes> > P.B.Phanindar> Chartered Accountant> 99893 99195> 98662 21340> > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@. ..> wrote:> > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@. ..>> Fwd: "Vedic astrology"-- -the greatest fraud on the Vedas!> > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM> > > > > >

> HinduCalendar, "jyotirved" <jyotirved@ ..> > wrote:> > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,> > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post "Vedic astrology"-the> greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by you

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1d.

Re: Fwd: "Vedic astrology"---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

Posted by: "Phanindar pb" pbphanindar pbphanindar

Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:37 am (PDT)

Dear AKKThere is no confusion whatsoever in my mind when I said that through Astrology we can achieve Unity in diversity. We are able to understand oneness of this universe through the science of astrology to that extent it is fine! the only problem is applying this knowledge 4 mundane and reducing it to fortune telling to the individual level only has brought disrespect to the science!Ð° The is always perfect however, the scientist can always go wrong!Regarding PBP it is based on Prasna sastra of Kalidasa synthesysed by KP and PBP!P.B.PhanindarChartered Accountant99893 9919598662 21340--- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> wrote:Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> Re: Fwd:

"Vedic astrology"-- -the greatest fraud on the Vedas!Friday, August 22, 2008, 9:40 PMShri P. B. Phaninderji,Nmaskar!<astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! >It appears you are confusing astrology with astronomy/consmolog y/cosmogeny!<However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras etc.,>What is "Prasna Bhagha paddathi" which works without rashis and nakshatras etc.? I am hearing about it for the first time.Regards,AKK, Phanindar pb <pbphanindar@ ...> wrote:>> Dear

AKK> Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for mumdane predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to continue ur DHARMA YUDDAM!? However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info> With best wishes> > P.B.Phanindar> Chartered Accountant> 99893 99195> 98662 21340> > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@. ..> wrote:> > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@. ..>> Fwd: "Vedic astrology"-- -the greatest fraud on the Vedas!> > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM>

> > > > > > HinduCalendar, "jyotirved" <jyotirved@ ..> > wrote:> > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,> > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post "Vedic astrology"-the> greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by you

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2a.

Re: FAMILY PROBLEM

Posted by: "Phanindar pb" pbphanindar pbphanindar

Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:45 am (PDT)

Dear Mr. DilipPlease pray ur ista deivam( Your favourite God) and frame only one question about only one problem at a time with a specific question and a time frame then note the question time of writing! R u from HYD? otherwise specify the place where u r writing the question then pray once again ur fav. god and write down a below 250 i.e. between 1 to 249 both numbers inclusive! note down that time again The number u r choosing should not be ur lucky or fav.number It should flash in ur mind when ur urge to know a particular problem is optimum! similarly again pray and write a number between 1 to 108 (both inclusive) note down that time again as per ur watch! Once again for the last time write down a number between 1 to 7 ( both inclusive) again note that time and pass it on!! Pl. remember oly one specific question only at a time! The Divine direction would help u in solving ur problem!All the very

best!P.B.PhanindarChartered Accountant99893 9919598662 21340--- On Fri, 8/22/08, dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co. in> wrote:dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co. in> FAMILY PROBLEMFriday, August 22, 2008, 9:54 AMRespected Members,Ð° NamaskarMy details are: Date of Birth- 21-04-1971, Time: 11.55 PM, Place: Dhanbad (Bihar).My wifes date of birth: 08-06-1981, Time: 8. 20 PM. Place: Rourkela (Orissa)Sir, I have been facing constant family tension since my marriage on 25-02-2005. I live in a joint family with my wife, daughter, father ,

mother & two un married sisters. There is daily tension between two of us due to some reason or the other.I would like to request youÐ° to pl. guide me regarding the above. I would like to know when will this problem stop. Will I be able to lead a peaceful life with all family members ever. Is there any chance of seperation between both of us. What should be my present action to minimise the ill effect.I will be very thankful if you can pl. answer the above questions. I am in a very bad mental state. Pl. help me.Thanking U all......... ......... ... Dilip.Connect with friends all over the world. Get India Messenger.

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2b.

Re: FAMILY PROBLEM

Posted by: "dipika blr" blr.aspirant blraspirant

Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:41 pm (PDT)

Dear Dilip ji,Please visit a marriage counselor (family counseling /individual counseling)will help you immensely.Ñ€Ð´â••Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´Ð¿Ñ€Ð´Ð¾Ñ€ÐµÐ—Ñ€Ð´â•¡ Ñ€Ð´Ð¬Ñ€Ð´Ð¿Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐ—On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 9:54 AM, dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co. in>wrote:> Respected Members,>> Namaskar>> My details are: Date of Birth- 21-04-1971, Time: 11.55 PM, Place: Dhanbad> (Bihar).>> My wifes date of birth: 08-06-1981, Time: 8. 20 PM. Place: Rourkela> (Orissa)>> Sir, I have been facing constant family tension since my marriage on> 25-02-2005. I live in a joint family with my wife, daughter, father , mother> & two un married sisters. There is daily tension between two of us due to> some reason or the other.>>

I would like to request you to pl. guide me regarding the above. I would> like to know when will this problem stop. Will I be able to lead a peaceful> life with all family members ever. Is there any chance of seperation between> both of us. What should be my present action to minimise the ill effect.>> I will be very thankful if you can pl. answer the above questions.>> I am in a very bad mental state. Pl. help me.>> Thanking U all......... ......... ... Dilip.>>>> ------------ --------- ---------> Connect with friends all over the world. Get India Messenger.<http://in.rd. / tagline_messenge r_1/*http: //in.messenger. / ?wm=n/>> >

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2c.

Re: FAMILY PROBLEM

Posted by: "dipika blr" blr.aspirant blraspirant

Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:46 pm (PDT)

Visit this site http://happycouples .in/ and contact the subject expert.On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 7:15 PM, Phanindar pb <pbphanindar@ > wrote:> Dear Mr. Dilip> Please pray ur ista deivam( Your favourite God) and frame only one question> about only one problem at a time with a specific question and a time frame> then note the question time of writing! R u from HYD? otherwise specify the> place where u r writing the question then pray once again ur fav. god and> write down a below 250 i.e. between 1 to 249 both numbers inclusive! note> down that time again The number u r choosing should not be ur lucky or> fav.number It should flash in ur mind when ur urge to know a particular> problem is optimum! similarly

again pray and write a number between 1 to 108> (both inclusive) note down that time again as per ur watch! Once again for> the last time write down a number between 1 to 7 ( both inclusive) again> note that time and pass it on!! Pl. remember oly one specific question only> at a time! The Divine direction would help u in solving ur problem!> All the very best!>> P.B.Phanindar> Chartered Accountant> 99893 99195> 98662 21340>> --- On *Fri, 8/22/08, dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co. in>* wrote:>> dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co. in>> FAMILY PROBLEM> > Friday, August 22, 2008, 9:54 AM>> Respected Members,>> Namaskar>> My details are: Date of Birth- 21-04-1971, Time: 11.55 PM, Place: Dhanbad> (Bihar).>> My wifes date of birth: 08-06-1981, Time: 8. 20 PM. Place: Rourkela> (Orissa)>> Sir, I have been facing constant family tension since my marriage on> 25-02-2005. I live in a joint family with my wife, daughter, father , mother> & two un married sisters. There is daily tension between two of us due to> some reason or the other.>> I would like to request you to pl. guide me regarding the above. I would> like to know when will this problem stop. Will I be able to lead a peaceful> life with all family members ever. Is there any chance of seperation between> both of us. What should be my present

action to minimise the ill effect.>> I will be very thankful if you can pl. answer the above questions.>> I am in a very bad mental state. Pl. help me.>> Thanking U all......... ......... ... Dilip.>>>> ------------ --------- ---------> Connect with friends all over the world. Get India Messenger.<http://in.rd. / tagline_messenge r_1/*http: //in.messenger. / ?wm=n/>>>> >

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2d.

Re: FAMILY PROBLEM

Posted by: "dilip mukherjee" dilip.12345 dilip.12345

Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:31 pm (PDT)

Phanindar Ji Pranam,Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð°Ð° As directed by you the details are as follows:-Ð°1) Question:- When will the problems in my family life end?Ð°Ð° (Time 11.01 AM)Ð°Ð°Ð° I am writing this question from Rourkela, Orissa.Ð°2) Number below 250: 239Ð° (Time 11.04 AM)Ð°3) Number between 1 & 108: 92Ð° (Time 11.05 AM)Ð°4) Number between 1 to 7: 5 (Time 11.06 AM)Ð°Ð°Sir, hope the above is as per your direction. Ð°I am waiting egerly to receive a reply from you.Ð°DILIP.--- On Fri, 22/8/08, Phanindar pb <pbphanindar@ > wrote:Phanindar pb <pbphanindar@ >Re: FAMILY PROBLEMFriday, 22 August, 2008, 7:15 PMDear Mr. DilipPlease pray ur ista deivam( Your favourite God) and frame only one question about only one problem at a time with a specific question and a time frame then note the question time of writing! R u from HYD? otherwise specify the place where u r writing the question then pray once again ur fav. god and write down a below 250 i.e. between 1 to 249 both numbers inclusive! note down that time again The number u r choosing should not be ur lucky or fav.number It should flash in ur mind when ur urge to know a particular problem is optimum! similarly again pray and write a number between 1 to 108 (both inclusive) note down that time again as per ur watch! Once again for the last time write down a number between 1 to 7 ( both inclusive) again note that time and pass it on!! Pl.

remember oly one specific question only at a time! The Divine direction would help u in solving ur problem!All the very best!P.B.PhanindarChartered Accountant99893 9919598662 21340--- On Fri, 8/22/08, dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co. in> wrote:dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co. in> FAMILY PROBLEMFriday, August 22, 2008, 9:54 AMRespected Members,Ð° NamaskarMy details are: Date of Birth- 21-04-1971, Time: 11.55 PM, Place: Dhanbad (Bihar).My wifes date of birth: 08-06-1981, Time: 8. 20 PM. Place: Rourkela (Orissa)Sir, I have been facing constant family tension since my marriage on 25-02-2005. I live in a joint family with my wife, daughter, father , mother & two un married sisters. There is daily tension between two of us due to some reason or the

other.I would like to request youÐ° to pl. guide me regarding the above. I would like to know when will this problem stop. Will I be able to lead a peaceful life with all family members ever. Is there any chance of seperation between both of us. What should be my present action to minimise the ill effect.I will be very thankful if you can pl. answer the above questions. I am in a very bad mental state. Pl. help me.Thanking U all......... ......... ... Dilip.Connect with friends all over the world. Get India Messenger. Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now, on http://help. / l/in// mail/mail/ tools/tools- 08.html/

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3a.

Fwd: [HinduCalendar] "Vedic astrology"---the greatest fraud on the V

Posted by: "dipika blr" blr.aspirant blraspirant

Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:36 pm (PDT)

---------- Forwarded message ----------dipika blrSat, Aug 23, 2008 at 1:05 AMRe: [HinduCalendar] "Vedic astrology"-- -the greatest fraud on theVedas!HinduCalendarCc: pvr108 Dear Avtar ji,Do you support Sayana based astrology? This was claimed by one ofAstrologers who went through your article onhttp://www.aryasama j.org/eng_ art/do_celebrate _in_time. htmregardsDipikaÑ€Ð´â••Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´Ð¿Ñ€Ð´Ð¾Ñ€ÐµÐ—Ñ€Ð´â•¡ Ñ€Ð´Ð¬Ñ€Ð´Ð¿Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐ—------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --satyameva jayate naanritamsatyena pantha vitato

devayanahyenaa kramantyarishayo hyaaptakaamaayatra tat satyasya paramam nidhaanamOn Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 5:42 PM, jyotirved <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> wrote:> Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,>> Many thanks for your comments on my article/post "Vedic astrology"-the> greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by you in July> 2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008!>>>> I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge of "Vedic astrologers"> about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why they call> themselves "Vedic astrologers" ! They base their claims of astrology being> an "anga" of the Vedas because there is a "Vedanga" named "Vedanga> Jyotisha"! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant

facts!>>>> "Vedanga Jyotisha" is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th century BCE> compiled in Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of calculating mean> tithi and nakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the four> cardinal points besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months!>> It does not mention anything even by mistake about any planets like Budha,> Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis!>>>> Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology just> because there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even know ABC of> their own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some overseas "Vamadevas"> are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and the Vedangas> themselves first and then enter into discussions on such topics---lest> they put on public

display their lack of knowledge of their own shastras> otherwise!>> Here is a challenge to all the "Vedic astrologers" the world over: pl.> quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha or> the Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that matter, the so> called Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis> even by mistake!>> We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta either prior to> the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika!>> We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets either in any> of the Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to the Surya> Sidhatna of Maya the mlechha!>> Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in> the Mahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also

nakshatras> times without number!>> Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology is> taking the Hindu community for a ride!>> We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, Shani etc.> planets in the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana-walas, all the> puranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of Vernal> Equinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar Sankanti as the> Uttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year and so on!> That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya Sidhanta where> Makar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It definitely> leads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis had been> imported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then later> incorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu "sishyas of

Varahamihira" .>>>> Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge for all the> Vedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world over! Let them> quote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or Shastra that has> advised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on any plan! On the> other hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that any "nakshatra> soochi-brahman" must be treated as a chandala. That is exactly contrary to> what Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita "Yavanas (like Maya of the> Surya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are mlechhas but> because they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis".!>>>> Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the sidhantas and> karna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha to> Graha-Laghava of

Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong orbital> elements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred years back,> i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, panchangas in> Bharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works i.e. sidhantas> and karna-granthas! That means that even those panchangas were absolutely> wrong! And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong panchangas till a> few decades back in India! What is most surprising is that "Vedic> astrologers" are shouting from housetops that our ancestors right from> Varahamihira to "my grandpa" made correct predictions and that is why Hindu> astrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other astrology the> world over!>> Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was actually thus> based on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we claim that

our> "ancestors" made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU ASTROLOGY (KNOWN AS> VEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS "THE ART (OR IS IT THE 'SCIENCE'?) OF> MAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA">> Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that?>>>> Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no astrologer has till> date predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!) would take> place where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that your namesake> late P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even hinted that> Shri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More than a decade> back, the Congress I had been written off by the "greatest Vedic astrologer> of the twentieth century" in his Astrological Magazine and had advised Smti.> Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! The editor

of> BABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA government would not last> beyond more than six months after taking over the reins and it is learnt> that on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even started making> preparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around September 2004!> They are, however, still waiting for that prediction to materialize whereas> in the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's "is not keeping good health"---something> which no jyotishi had "foreseen".>> That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, does not know even> his time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed that he/she had> predicted that "Singh would be the king".>> That also reminds me that the "greatest Vedic astrologer of the twentieth> century" had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture on January 3 of> the ensuing year on

"Astrology as an aid to the diagnosis of heart attacks"> but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of "Cardiac arrest"--- to> delivering that "astrologically planned" lecture!>>>> His "Notable Horoscopes" gives the most incorrect planetary longitudes of> all the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has made correct> "assessments" /predictions of all the charts in that work! That is why I say> "Vedic astrologers can make correct predictions only from incorrect data".>>>> If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about themselves correctly,> how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else properly?>>>> What is most damaging for these "Vedic astrologers" is the fact that in> spite of their claims that they have been practicing the so called nirayana> astrology at least over the last seven

thousand years, (right from the Vedic> times!) they are still unable to decide as to which ayanamsha, if any, is> the correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen ayanamshas like> Lahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari, Chopra, Surya> Sidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even "zero" ayanamsha going around---each> claiming to give the maximum correct results! What they fail to understand> that if any ayanamsha is correct, all the rest are incorrect! All of them> can never be correct, though all of them can simultaneously be wrong!>> These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that astrological> rashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their imagination since> the Rashis have no existence actually/astronomic ally and that is why we find> hundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat twelve equal> segments/compartmen

ts/divisions astronomically and that is why whether it is> JPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give planetary longitudes> in terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical works but just the> longitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees!>> It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were taken as rashis> (astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what was imported into> India! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana rashis do not> exist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy or confusion> about sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist at all! It is thus a> confusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West!>> The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike the fake> Vamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus pocus and they> did not need any astrological Rashis

thus! The Vedic seers named the Vedic> months just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons and to four> cardinal points----i.e. the two Equinoxes and two Solstices! It is a> fallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so called Sayana> or the so called nirayana and that is why we are all celebrating our> festivals and muhurtas on wrong days!>> The most glaring example of the "benefits of 'Vedic astrology" is that> you, the head-cum-founder- cum-owner of the group of "Vedic-astrology"> () will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only because you are> a "Vedic astrologer" whereas actually, as per all the shastras by which you> and your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on July 24!> Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating Pitra-Amavasya on> the day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period

which is actually> suitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages during actual> pitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will continue to> take place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologers-and thereby the whole> of Hindu community--- only because you believe in Mesha etc. Rashis---whether> the so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire that the rashi> based hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known as "Vedic astrology"!>>>> When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in "Vedic-astrology ()"> forum, you just summarily banned me from that group on the recommendation of> some Western "Vedic astrologer" who was finding it difficult to market his> trinkets through your forum after reading my arguments!>>>> However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join>> http://groups. / group/HinduCalen dar>> forum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu community is being> taken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the festivals on wrong days> by "Vedic astrologers" just to make a fast buck or gain some "reputation" .> You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum without any> restrictions since the posts to that forum are not moderated at all!>>>> I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some people, including> you, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what intrigues me is your silence and> the silence of other scholars about the various dates of birth of Bhagwan> Rama according to "Vedic astrologers" ! Tfshey say He incarnated anywhere> between 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is supposed to

be> hundreds of thousands of years old! Even a "his holiness of the art of> something" has "confirmed" (sic!) that the date of birth of Bhagwan Ram> was/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared by an Income Tax> Commissioner for that date!>> Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing stock of the> entire Hindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki Ramayana, on> the basis of which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on January 14,> 5114 BCE as per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000> years? These jyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well!>> In any case, predictive astrologers are requested that if predictive> gimmicks are a necessary evil for them and if they cannot survive without> them just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, these jyotishis must> at least leave the

Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke their filthy> nose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals and muhurtas! Let> them go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or Maloo will be> the PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas-- -but let them just> step out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a premonition that> they will not do so because whenever any seminar or conference is held> regarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably always attended> by and presided over by "Vedic astrologers" with the result that we are> always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals as advised by> Lahiri-walas instead of the shastras!>> It thus goes without saying that I will have to continue my "Dharma-yudha"> against "Vedic astrology" for streamlining the Hindu calendar---because the> real Vedic calendar and

predictive gimmicks cannot exist side by side in the> real Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite of the fact that> I have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I know "yato> dharmas tato jayah"!>>>> With regards,>> AKK>>>>> >

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3b.

Re: Fwd: [HinduCalendar] "Vedic astrology"---the greatest fraud on t

Posted by: "Avtar Krishen Kaul" jyotirved a_krishen

Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:20 am (PDT)

Sushri Dipika ji,Namaskar!<Do you support Sayana based astrology?>My journey through jyotisha---phalita, of course!---labyrinth hasbeen a real evolutionary one! To start with, I was an astro-bufflike my maternal grandfather, who could make correct predictions fromhoroscopes prepared from Makaranda/Grahalagh ava panchangas-- -the mostludicrous astronomical works, next only to Maya the mlechha's SuryaSidhanta!Later, I found from the Puranas and also the sidhantas (the SuryaSidahnta was a divine work for me also till about a decade back!)that they all referred to a (so called) Sayana rashichakra! It meansthat Sayana astrology i.e. the one based on the so called Sayanarashis could be the real Vedic astrology and it could be the onlyrashichakra which was to be followed for festivals etc.! Like theSurya Sidhanta, I also clubbed the start of Ashvini nakshatra

withMeshaarambha i.e. the Vernal Equinox then, quite oblivious of thefact that that just could not be possible.That dichotomy was pointed out by a gentleman Shri Paul KekaiManansala that the Vedic Seers could never have clubbed the realnakshatras with imaginary Sayana Rashis! Since his argument was quitelogical, and being a seeker of Truth instead of just a Phalitajyotishi, whether Sayana-Vedic or nirayana-Vedic, I had willy-nilly togo through the entire gamut of rashis and nakshatras and calendarmaking all over again! I could not find any Mesha etc. Rashis in anyof the Vedas nor in any original astronomicl indigenous work like theRik-Jyotisham (also known as Vedanga Jyotisha) or Yajur Jyotisha oreven the so called Atharva-Jyotisha or any of the sidhantas of thepre-Surya Sidhana era! It was thus clear that Mesha etc. Rashis---whether the so called Sayana or the so called Nirayana, had

beenimported into India from somewhere else as they were conspicuous bytheir absence from all the Vedic and post-Vedic works upto aboutfourth century BCE!This fact of rashis having been imported into India from somewhreelse had actualy been confirmed by all the prominent scholars like S.B. Dikshit, Dr. M. N. Saha, Sri Sarma etc. etc. already and has nowbeen re-confirmed by Dr. R. N. Iyengar in his archaeo-astronomypapers!Since my main aims was to streamline the Hindu calnear, I found thatthere was thus a direct conflict between the Mesha etc. Rashis andthe Hindu calendar since if the Rashis were taken as Sayana, theycould not be linked to nakshatras at all, and if we take them asnirayana rashis---out of hunreds of nirayana aynamshas--- none of themcould be linked to the seasons! That is why the real Vamadevas neverhad any requirement of any Mesha etc. Rashis, since for

themMadhu/Chaitra, Madhava/Vaishkaha etc. 12 months coupled with Vasantaetc. six Ritus and the four cardinal points viz. the two solsticesand two equinoxes was more than sufficient for deciding their fastsand festivals!For krittika etc. nakshatras, the Seers did not need any Mesha etc.Rashis since the nakshatras had an indpendent existence for them!Thus it is only phalita jyotishsis who need rashis---whether Sayanaor nirayana---for their survival---and not the real Vedic calendar!And since the phalita-walas cannot do without Mesha etc. Rashis, theyjust thrust them on the Hindu calendar/festivals also because theyknow that unless and until they attach some religious siginificance tothose imaginary Rashis, nobody is going to take their phalit hocus-pocus seriously! That is how and why there is a direct conflict between thereal Vedic calendar and the unreal "Vedic astrologers" . And that

iswhy these jyotishis attend every conference/seminar for streamliningthe Hindu calendar and it is only the "most successful Vedicastrologer" who presides over such conferences/ seminars! We havethus been always back to square one after such innumerableconferencess and seminars! It will be clear from PAC3.doc from thefiles section!<This was claimed by one of Astrologers who went through your articleon http://www.aryasama j.org/eng_ art/do_celebrate _in_time. htm>As explained above, in a sort of way, that "claim" ofthat "astrologer" was correct as on that date when I had written thatarticle! It was a similar situation with the members of thethen "All India Calendar Reform Committee" who had joined thatcommittee only to "show to the whole world that sayana was the realpredictive system of

Vedic astrology" rather than celebrating thefestivals on correct days! I am sure most of them do not celebratefestivals on corect days even today though they practise "sayana Vedicastrology"! That is why I resigned from that Committee as itspresident since that "Aryasamaja- wala astrologer" and alsothe "Committee-wale astrologers" have got just stuck with thatstance of mine whereas I have continued on my journey afterjettisoning such mill-stones around the neck by the roadiside.With regards,AKKPSCould you kindly teach me the art of typing Sanskrit words inDevanagri script in posts as you have typed the words Ñ€Ð´â••Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´Ð¿Ñ€Ð´Ð¾Ñ€ÐµÐ—Ñ€Ð´â•¡Ñ€Ð´Ð¬Ñ€Ð´Ð¿Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐ—.I am sure no member will have any objection to this request of mine!AKK, "dipika

blr" <blr.aspirant@ ...> wrote:>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------> dipika blr> Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 1:05 AM> Re: [HinduCalendar] "Vedic astrology"-- -the greatest fraud on the> Vedas!> HinduCalendar> Cc: pvr108 > > Dear Avtar ji,> > Do you support Sayana based astrology? This was claimed by one of> Astrologers who went through your article on> http://www.aryasama j.org/eng_ art/do_celebrate _in_time. htm> > regards> Dipika> > > Ñ€Ð´â••Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´Ð¿Ñ€Ð´Ð¾Ñ€ÐµÐ—Ñ€Ð´â•¡ Ñ€Ð´Ð¬Ñ€Ð´Ð¿Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐ—> ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------

--------- -> -satyameva jayate naanritam> satyena pantha vitato devayanah> yenaa kramantyarishayo hyaaptakaamaa> yatra tat satyasya paramam nidhaanam> > > On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 5:42 PM, jyotirved <jyotirved@. ..> wrote:> > > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,> >> > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post "Vedic astrology"Ñ‚Ð"the> > greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by you in July> > 2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008!> >> >> >> > I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge of "Vedic astrologers"> > about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why they call> > themselves "Vedic astrologers" ! They base their claims of astrology being> > an "anga" of the Vedas because there

is a "Vedanga" named "Vedanga> > Jyotisha"! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts!> >> >> >> > "Vedanga Jyotisha" is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th century BCE> > compiled in Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of calculating mean> > tithi and nakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the four> > cardinal points besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months!> >> > It does not mention anything even by mistake about any planets like Budha,> > Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis!> >> >> >> > Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology just> > because there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even know ABC of> > their own Vedic lore! They are just going by what

some overseas "Vamadevas"> > are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and the Vedangas> > themselves first and then enter into discussions on such topics---lest> > they put on public display their lack of knowledge of their own shastras> > otherwise!> >> > Here is a challenge to all the "Vedic astrologers" the world over: pl.> > quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha or> > the Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that matter, the so> > called Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis> > even by mistake!> >> > We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta either prior to> > the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika!> >> > We do not find any mention of

Mangal and Shani etc. planets either in any> > of the Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to the Surya> > Sidhatna of Maya the mlechha!> >> > Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in> > the Mahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also nakshatras> > times without number!> >> > Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology is> > taking the Hindu community for a ride!> >> > We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, Shani etc.> > planets in the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana-walas, all the> > puranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of Vernal> > Equinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar Sankanti as the> > Uttarayana i.e. Winter

Solstice, the shortest day of the year and so on!> > That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya Sidhanta where> > Makar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It definitely> > leads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis had been> > imported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then later> > incorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu "sishyas of Varahamihira" .> >> >> >> > Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge for all the> > Vedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world over! Let them> > quote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or Shastra that has> > advised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on any plan! On the> > other hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that

any "nakshatra> > soochi-brahman" must be treated as a chandala. That is exactly contrary to> > what Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita "Yavanas (like Maya of the> > Surya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are mlechhas but> > because they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis".!> >> >> >> > Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the sidhantas and> > karna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha to> > Graha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong orbital> > elements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred years back,> > i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, panchangas in> > Bharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works i.e. sidhantas> > and karna-granthas! That

means that even those panchangas were absolutely> > wrong! And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong panchangas till a> > few decades back in India! What is most surprising is that "Vedic> > astrologers" are shouting from housetops that our ancestors right from> > Varahamihira to "my grandpa" made correct predictions and that is why Hindu> > astrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other astrology the> > world over!> >> > Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was actually thus> > based on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we claim that our> > "ancestors" made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU ASTROLOGY (KNOWN AS> > VEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS "THE ART (OR IS IT THE 'SCIENCE'?) OF> > MAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA">

>> > Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that?> >> >> >> > Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no astrologer has till> > date predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!) would take> > place where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that your namesake> > late P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even hinted that> > Shri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More than a decade> > back, the Congress I had been written off by the "greatest Vedic astrologer> > of the twentieth century" in his Astrological Magazine and had advised Smti.> > Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! The editor of> > BABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA government would not last> > beyond more than six months

after taking over the reins and it is learnt> > that on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even started making> > preparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around September 2004!> > They are, however, still waiting for that prediction to materialize whereas> > in the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's "is not keeping good health"---something> > which no jyotishi had "foreseen".> >> > That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, does not know even> > his time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed that he/she had> > predicted that "Singh would be the king".> >> > That also reminds me that the "greatest Vedic astrologer of the twentieth> > century" had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture on January 3 of> > the ensuing year on "Astrology as an aid

to the diagnosis of heart attacks"> > but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of "Cardiac arrest"--- to> > delivering that "astrologically planned" lecture!> >> >> >> > His "Notable Horoscopes" gives the most incorrect planetary longitudes of> > all the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has made correct> > "assessments" /predictions of all the charts in that work! That is why I say> > "Vedic astrologers can make correct predictions only from incorrect data".> >> >> >> > If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about themselves correctly,> > how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else properly?> >> >> >> > What is most damaging for these "Vedic astrologers" is the fact that in> > spite of their

claims that they have been practicing the so called nirayana> > astrology at least over the last seven thousand years, (right from the Vedic> > times!) they are still unable to decide as to which ayanamsha, if any, is> > the correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen ayanamshas like> > Lahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari, Chopra, Surya> > Sidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even "zero" ayanamsha going around---each> > claiming to give the maximum correct results! What they fail to understand> > that if any ayanamsha is correct, all the rest are incorrect! All of them> > can never be correct, though all of them can simultaneously be wrong!> >> > These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that astrological> > rashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their imagination

since> > the Rashis have no existence actually/astronomic ally and that is why we find> > hundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat twelve equal> > segments/compartmen ts/divisions astronomically and that is why whether it is> > JPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give planetary longitudes> > in terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical works but just the> > longitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees!> >> > It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were taken as rashis> > (astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what was imported into> > India! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana rashis do not> > exist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy or confusion> > about sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist

at all! It is thus a> > confusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West!> >> > The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike the fake> > Vamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus pocus and they> > did not need any astrological Rashis thus! The Vedic seers named the Vedic> > months just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons and to four> > cardinal pointsÑ‚Ð"---i.e. the two Equinoxes and two Solstices! It is a> > fallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so called Sayana> > or the so called nirayana and that is why we are all celebrating our> > festivals and muhurtas on wrong days!> >> > The most glaring example of the "benefits of 'Vedic astrology" is that> > you, the head-cum-founder- cum-owner of the group of

"Vedic-astrology"> > () will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only because you are> > a "Vedic astrologer" whereas actually, as per all the shastras by which you> > and your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on July 24!> > Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating Pitra-Amavasya on> > the day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period which is actually> > suitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages during actual> > pitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will continue to> > take place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologersÑ‚Ð"and thereby the whole> > of Hindu community--- only because you believe in Mesha etc. Rashis---whether> > the so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire that the rashi> > based

hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known as "Vedic astrology"!> >> >> >> > When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in "Vedic-astrology ()"> > forum, you just summarily banned me from that group on the recommendation of> > some Western "Vedic astrologer" who was finding it difficult to market his> > trinkets through your forum after reading my arguments!> >> >> >> > However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join> >> > http://groups. / group/HinduCalen dar> >> > forum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu community is being> > taken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the festivals on wrong days> > by "Vedic astrologers" just

to make a fast buck or gain some "reputation" .> > You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum without any> > restrictions since the posts to that forum are not moderated at all!> >> >> >> > I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some people, including> > you, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what intrigues me is your silence and> > the silence of other scholars about the various dates of birth of Bhagwan> > Rama according to "Vedic astrologers" ! Tfshey say He incarnated anywhere> > between 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is supposed to be> > hundreds of thousands of years old! Even a "his holiness of the art of> > something" has "confirmed" (sic!) that the date of birth of Bhagwan Ram> > was/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared by

an Income Tax> > Commissioner for that date!> >> > Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing stock of the> > entire Hindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki Ramayana, on> > the basis of which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on January 14,> > 5114 BCE as per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000> > years? These jyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well!> >> > In any case, predictive astrologers are requested that if predictive> > gimmicks are a necessary evil for them and if they cannot survive without> > them just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, these jyotishis must> > at least leave the Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke their filthy> > nose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals and

muhurtas! Let> > them go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or Maloo will be> > the PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas-- -but let them just> > step out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a premonition that> > they will not do so because whenever any seminar or conference is held> > regarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably always attended> > by and presided over by "Vedic astrologers" with the result that we are> > always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals as advised by> > Lahiri-walas instead of the shastras!> >> > It thus goes without saying that I will have to continue my "Dharma-yudha"> > against "Vedic astrology" for streamlining the Hindu calendar---because the> > real Vedic calendar and predictive gimmicks

cannot exist side by side in the> > real Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite of the fact that> > I have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I know "yato> > dharmas tato jayah"!> >> >> >> > With regards,> >> > AKK> >> >> >> >> > > >>

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4a.

Fwd: Re: [Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad] Eclipses and fear psychosis

Posted by: "Avtar Krishen Kaul" jyotirved a_krishen

Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:07 am (PDT)

vedic_research_ institute, "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved@. ..> wrote:Dear Dr. Elst,As usual, your post is highly interesting! Let mt try to recapitulate and then elaborate some of the points raised by you:<The Parashara Samhita is nearly contemporaneous with the Mahabharata events (15th-14th century BC) and it contains the key to understanding this prediction.>I have my doubts that Parshara of Parshara Samhita and Krishna Dvaipayana Vyasa of the Mbh were contemporaneous. The Mbh has talked of planets vis-â”œÐ°-vis nakshatras hundreds of times and it appears that most of them were after-thoughts. Parshara Samhita is very clumsy about orbital elements of even Mercury whereas the Mbh appears to have a better grasp of the planets.<It

contains nothing like "Vedic astrology", i.e. sanskritized Hellenistic astrology, but it does contain omen astrology of the kind also found in the same period in Mesopotamia. >Yes, it does not contain anything like "Vedic astrology". For that matter, no other work contains anything about "Vedic astrology", which is actually Hellenistic astrology, since we do not find any references to any Mesha etc. rashis in any of the Pre-Surya Sidhanta works including the Vedanga Jyotisha or even Atharva-Jyotisha or the Atharva-Veda- Parishishta!<The whole of omen astrology can be summarized in just two rules: (1) evil is predicted by unclear heavenly configurations, and (2) evil is predicted by configurations violating the cosmic order. The first one explains why astrologers consider stars or constellations with relatively little visibility (e.g. Cancer) or with unstable visibility (e.g.

Algol) or with "eclipsed" visibility (e.g. Mercury or Venus or other planets when close to the sun) as inauspicious. The second one explains the Mahabharata prediction. > The "omen astrology" could be an independent development in India, unrelated to other parts of the world. We do find mention of eclipses in the Rig-Veda but I do not remember having read of any dire consequences accompanying that eclipse."Omen astrology"-- -what I call fear psychosis--- appears to be a post-Vedic development, maybe even a post Vedanga Jyotisha development, since there is no mention of any methodology of calculating eclipses in that work either! There is a remote possibility that some other astronomical tract did exist at that point of time for the calculation of eclipses etc., but if the Veanga Jyotisha itself cannot be relied upon---by modern standards, of course!--for calculating tithi etc. properly,

it is a moot point as to how accurate the astronomical predictions of eclipses could be as per that "other" literature, if it ever existed then.Regarding "nakshatras" , the Vedas are full of references to them and they did play a definitive role in muhurta-shastra, to the extent that some nights have been totally discarded as "jaganya" (despicable) for starting any rituals. It appears the lunar sojourn in different nakshatras did have a lot of say in such matters but not to the exclusion of seasons! We do not, however, find any reference to any solar sojourn in any nakshatra though a Vedic mantra (Yajurveda) tells us "brihaspatih tishyam ajayata" i.e. "Brihaspati was born in Tishya".< The diviner (Vyasa, I believe) says that he has never seen two eclipses in just thirteen days, and now that it happens, it must predict bad fortune. This is because of his experience that the time lapse

is always 14 or 15 days. However, he was deceived by the limitations on his experience: he just hadn't lived long enough to become familiar with the regularity of the admittedly rare but nonetheless perfectly regular phenomenon of an eclipse succeeding another in less than 14 x 24 hours. This is simply the low end of a regular cycle in which that time lapse varies from just under 14 days to just over 15 days. It returns every ca. 6 years, yet one can fail to see one for decades because an observer limited to his own place on earth (not yet receiving satellite-relayed images e.g. from the latest solar eclipse in Siberia) would see only a small percentage of the recurring solar eclipses. Unlike lunar eclipses, which are seen wherever the moon is above the horizon (half the earth), solar eclipses are local and seen in only a small part of the earth's surface. If one counts not from eclipse to eclipse but

simply from lunation to lunation, one will find the lapse of less than 14 days more frequently, but then that's less spectacular and less inviting to systematic observation. >The actual shloka of the Mbh, Bhishma Parva 3/32 says, "I have heard about a paksha of 16 tithis, 15 tithis and even 14 tithis (tihis are not days in mean solar time!). But I have never heard of a paksha of 13 tithis, when the New Moon (Amavasya) falls on Trayodashi". This is called a "kshyaya paksha" and that is why the Mbh calls it a "Vishva ghasra paksha" -- "a fortnight that could devour the whole world". Prior to that shloka in Bhishma Parva, chapter 3, we find that a lunar eclipse had taken place on the Kartika full-Moon and the solar eclipse on the next new moon day.I checked the calculations as per the Vedanga Jyotisha but as per the mean motion of the sun and the moon of that work, it is impossible that any

paksha could/can have only thirteen tithis! Similarly, even as per the mean motion of the sun and the moon according to modern astronomy, we can never get a paksha of thirteen tithis!S B Dikshit has said in his "Bharatiya Jyotisha Shastra" -- page 114 that such a paksha could be obtained as per the calculations of the Surya Sidhanta and other sidhantas--- by getting the true longitudes of the sun and the moon.To me it appears thus that some back calculation has been interpolated in the Mbh on the basis of the Surya Sidhanta or some other sidhanta, to make a paksha of thirteen tithis! However, astronomically, it is possible that there can be two eclipses within thirteen days---and even thirteen tithis---which will be clarified shortly!Ñ‚ÐÐ¶quot;both eclipses being visible at one and the same location.Several years back a Western nirayana astrologer had given the details of about a

hundred pairs of eclipses between BCE 3200 and BCE 2000 visible from Kurukshetra in the "Astrological Magazine". He had culled the details from NASA/JPL site. I cross-checked it there and after eliminating some eclipses that were of a very small magnitude, I could at least find about 50 such pairs of eclipses at Kurukshetra that were really visible during that period.Thus it appears that while the Veda-Vyasa was right when he had said that two eclipses took place in one paksha, it appears that either he had meant that there could not be a New Moon on the thirteenth tithi itself (trayodashi) , or it is an interpolation by some sidhantic calculation to make it thirteen tithis instead of thirteen days! It is also possible that during recitations, the "thirteen days" have got changed to "thirteen tithis".A bit of clarification about tithis and days is necessary here for a layman! A day is usually a

mean solar day of 24 hours of mean solar time whereas a tithi is a synodic day which is one-thirtieth of a synodic month---the number of days between one New Moon and another. The duration of synodic month these days is 29 days 12 hrs 44 mts approximately which means on an average, the duration of a tithi can be only 23 hrs 22 mts and 11 seconds approximately. Thus thirteen tithis could mean that the total duration in Mean solar time was 303 hrs 48 mts 25 seconds i.e. 12.66 days as against 312 hours of mean solar days of 13 days. Sometimes a tithi can last only for 21 hours 42 whereas at other times it can stretch to 26 hours and 30 minutes! However, there can never be just thirteen tithis in a paksha astronomically! They have to be fifteenÑ‚ÐÐ¶quot;and that also will be clarified shortly!Because the lunar motion/speed never remains uniform between one New Moon and another, it is just possible

that fifteen tithis sometimes could get collapsed in about 13 mean solar days! Then again, in India, a day ranges from one sunrise to another, which makes it easier for tithis to become "kshaya". When we say a tithi is kshyaya i.e "decayed", it does not actually vanish into thin air but what it means is that a particular tithi started after one sunrise but ended before another sunrise! Thus if the duration of the day (between one sunrise and another) is 25 hours, as is the case in Summer in Kurukshetra, and even if the duration of tithi is twenty-four hours and it "vanishes" between two sunrises, it will be a "kshyaya" tithi. It is just possible that such an phenomenon did take place during the Mbh war when three tithis became "kshyaya". Though it was/is very unusual, but that does not mean that it is not possible astronomically. Thus even if a paksha is Ñ‚ÐÐ¬kshayanaÑ‚ÐÐ as happened during the

Mbh war, it just means that the soli-lunar distance of 180 days got covered in 13 mean solar days---though there were actually fifteen tithes but two tithes became Ñ‚ÐÐ¬kshyayaÑ‚ÐÐ as the began after one sunrise but ended before another sunrise.In the passing, we may clarify that an adhika tithi can occur even if it is for less than its average duration i.e. 23 hrs. 22 mts. For example, for the same Kurukshetra, the duration of the day i.e. mean solar time between one sunrise and another is usually less than 23 hours, and if one tithi started a couple of minutes before sunrise on one day and it lasted beyond the next sunrise, it was an adhika tithi! That is why we have sometimes seventeen tithis in a paksha for some areas---though that is not a very frequent phenomenon either!So according to Veda Vyasa, Amavasya on Trayodashi was really a very very infrequent phenomenon, especially if there was

a solar eclipse on that Amavasya!<Dear Avtar Krishan Kaul, your fiery zeal to root out astrology is making you overlook hot information provided by astrologers, such as the diviner practising embryonic astrology in the MBh.>Dear Koenraad Elst, what makes me uneasy about this Ñ‚ÐÐ¬embryonic astrologyÑ‚ÐÐ is that because of the selfish motives of "Vedic astrologers" we are trying to read into such works as the Mbh, the Valmiki Ramayana etc. such phenomena as portends of evils as portrayed by our Maharshis! That gives an easy handle to soothsayers and palmists and Tarot-walas and numerologists etc. etc. to coerce and convince the majority that that was the practice with our Rishis like Vyasa and Valmiki and these "modern Vamadevas" and "Parasharas" are just propagating that very tradition! Some people have even tried to interpret the very first mantra of the Rig-Veda i.e. "Agnim

eede purohitam... " as meaning that that mantra has advised us to have a purohita and "purohita" according to them means, "One who can foresee the future benefits of the yajamana".-- -what you would call Ñ‚ÐÐ¬embryonic astrologyÑ‚ÐÐ. In other words, they just want us to follow the advice of Varahamihira that a king to have "samvatsarika (purohita!)" (whether or not he had a Commander-in- chief or a Minister)!The reason as to why those scholars are advising us to have a "purohita" is only because they are getting grants from organizations which do not want to give any funds to any such person who does not fall in line with their way of propagating the Vedas---and according to such institutions, propagation of Vedic astrology is the only way to propagate the Vedas! Ñ‚ÐÐ¬Paapi pet ka saval haiÑ‚ÐÐ-Let me ask you one question: Even if we admit that there was embryonic astrology in the

Mbh, does it mean that we should "advance" it at the cost of everything else?Secondly, maybe because there was such embryonic astrology during the time of the Mbh, that is why Bhishma Pitamaha has come down very heavily on nakshatra-soochis: He had advised Yudishthira to treat a nakshatra-soochi Brahmana as chandala! So we must also follow Bhishma's advice! Instead of honuring these "nakshatra-soochis" we must treat them as outcastes, since they have completely uprooted the real Vedic dharma with the result that because of this fraud known as "Vedic astrology", we are celebrating all our festivals and muhurtas on wrong days!< His observations are a great help in dating the events and explain the beliefs that helped create a war psychosis. >I do not agree with you on this point as well! On the basis of these very planetary positions in the Mbh, the overseas "Vamadeva" had said in

an old issue of the Astrological Magazine that the Mbh war took place in around 1300 BCE! And then we find scholars telling us that it could have taken place anywhere between 1400 BCE and 3300 BCE---And all these scholars are using "modern astronomy" to check and cross-check the positions of planets vis-â”œÐ°-vis nakshatras as given in the Mbh! They are thus making confusion worst confounded!Similarly, just on the basis of planetary combinations as given in one and the only Valmiki Ramayana, "Vedic astrologers" are giving us dates of Bhagwan Ram's incarnation right from 200 BCE to 9000 BCE! One "his holiness" of the "art of something" has also put his stamp of approval on the date of birth of Bhagwan Ram being January 14, 5114 BCE, which has been "calculated" by an Income-Tax Commissioner!I have no idea as to how and why that "his holiness of the art of something" has overlooked the sholkas of

the Valmiki Ramayana which says that Bhagwan Ram ruled for 11000 years! Or it could be that that "his holiness of the art of something" has not even read the Valmiki Ramayana himself but just went by "the report of the ITC".As such, instead of giving us any dates of the actual dates of the Mbh war or of Ravana-Rama- yudha, they are all the more confusing us, just to prove their "jyotish prowess".I hope all the points raised by you have got clarified!With regards,Avtarvedic_research_ institute, "koenraad_elst" <koenraad.elst@ > wrote:>> vedic_research_ institute, "Avtar Krishen Kaul" > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > --- On Tue,

8/12/08, jyotirved <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > ?> > As is common knowledge by now, there is going to be a lunar eclipse > > on August 16 after the Solar eclipse of August 1.? Naturally, TV > > channels are abuzz with the news that as one eclipse follows > another, > > it will be catastrophic not only for the nation as a whole but > > everybody individually as well! > > ?> > A saying in Hindi is repeated very often these days by these > > jyotishis and that saying is:> > "ek paakh main do grahna, mare raja ya mare sena" i.e." if there > are > > two eclipses in one fortnight, either the king dies or his soldiers > > die".? Some even twist it as "Ek paksha main do grahna, na rahe > raja > > na sena" i.e " if there are two eclipses in one fortnight, both the > > king as well

his army will be wiped out!"> > ?> > There are also references to "ghasrapksha" in the Mahabharata. ? It > > talks of a paksha of thirteen days when one eclipse had followed > > another.? It is presumed that because of those two eclipses in one > > paksha (fortnight), the Mbh war took place and/or the "Yadu-kula" > > became defunct!> >> > The Parashara Samhita is nearly contemporaneous with the Mahabharata > events (15th-14th century BC) and it contains the key to > understanding this prediction. It contains nothing like "Vedic > astrology", i.e. sanskritized Hellenistic astrology, but it does > contain omen astrology of the kind also found in the same period in > Mesopotamia. The whole of omen astrology can be summarized in just > two rules: (1) evil is predicted by unclear heavenly configurations, > and

(2) evil is predicted by configurations violating the cosmic > order. The first one explains why astrologers consider stars or > constellations with relatively little visibility (e.g. Cancer) or > with unstable visibility (e.g. Algol) or with "eclipsed" visibility > (e.g. Mercury or Venus or other planets when close to the sun) as > inauspicious. The second one explains the Mahabharata prediction. > > The diviner (Vyasa, I believe) says that he has never seen two > eclipses in just thirteen days, and now that it happens, it must > predict bad fortune. This is because of his experience that the time > lapse is always 14 or 15 days. However, he was deceived by the > limitations on his experience: he just hadn't lived long enough to > become familiar with the regularity of the admittedly rare but > nonetheless perfectly regular phenomenon of an eclipse succeeding

> another in less than 14 x 24 hours. This is simply the low end of a > regular cycle in which that time lapse varies from just under 14 days > to just over 15 days. It returns every ca. 6 years, yet one can fail > to see one for decades because an observer limited to his own place > on earth (not yet receiving satellite-relayed images e.g. from the > latest solar eclipse in Siberia) would see only a small percentage of > the recurring solar eclipses. Unlike lunar eclipses, which are seen > wherever the moon is above the horizon (half the earth), solar > eclipses are local and seen in only a small part of the earth's > surface. If one counts not from eclipse to eclipse but simply from > lunation to lunation, one will find the lapse of less than 14 days > more frequently, but then that's less spectacular and less inviting > to systematic

observation.> > ?> > It all shows how ignorant we are actually about basic astronomical/ > > geographical facts!> > ?> > The fact of the matter is that every year, without fail, there will > > be at least two solar eclipses!<> > Considered over the whole earth, yes. Considered for a single site, > no.> > ?> > WHAT IS TO > > BE NOTED IS THAT WHENEVER THERE IS A LUNAR ECLIPSE IT IS ALWAYS > > EITHER PRECEDED OR FOLLOWED BY A SOLAR ECLIPSE!? A lunar eclipse > can > > never take place without a solar eclipse either preceding or > > following it.<> > Considered over the whole earth, yes. Considered for a single site, > no.> > > ? ?> > Regarding thirteen day paksha of the MBh, in ancient India , only > > mean tithis were

calculated.<> > There's no need for that. It doesn't follow from the MBh report, > which doesn't require tithis to make perfect sense.> > >? And it appears that MBh tithis were > > calculated as per the principles enumerated in the Vedanga > Jyotisha.? > > So if it was a paksha of thirteen days during the MBh war, ?it is > not > > clear as to which tithis were kshyaya, because only when two tithes > > are kshyaya, ?it can be thirteen days instead of fifteen days in? a > > paksha .> > ?> > Non-Hindu astronomers don't use tithis and they can perfectly well > calculate that some eclipse periods are less than 14 days.> > > > However, I checked the details of eclipses on NASA website for 3200 > > BCE to 1500 BCE.? There have been at least a hundred eclipses > during

> > that period that have followed one another within thirteen days!<> > Not when observed from a single site. Ca. 75 should already be > subtracted because in one of the two eclipses the eclipsed sun or > moon will be below the horizon. That leaves "at least 25". Further, > the MBh star-gazer and omen-reader didn't live for 1700 years but > only 1/20 of that time at the very best. So that leaves less than 2. > Prediction of eclipses wasn't very accurate yet, so on some occasions > he wouldn't have busied himself with observation, missing a partial > eclipse on a cloudy day that didn't darken the sky enough to draw the > attention. And then I haven't even mentioned that the majority of > over-the-horizon solar eclipses would be seen in Siberia this year, > in Australia the next, in India another year, thus again reducing the >

likelihood for any given observer of actually seeing a succession of > two eclipses in less than 14 days. > > ? > > Does it mean that there have been at least a hundred Mbh wars > during > > that period, if another eclipse during a span of thirteen days > > denotes nothing but bloodshed!<> > ?> > Of course not. What it means is that a diviner in the 2nd millennium > BC saw this sequence as an aberration from the cosmic order (deemed > to "prescribe" 14 or 15 days, not less than 14) and therefore an omen > of disorderly things to come: palace revolution, pestilence, birth of > malformed creatures, war.> > Dear Avtar Krishan Kaul, your fiery zeal to root out astrology is > making you overlook hot information provided by astrologers, such as > the diviner practising embryonic astrology in the MBh.

His > observations are a great help in dating the events and explain the > beliefs that helped create a war psychosis. > > Kind regards,> > KE>--- End forwarded message ---

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August 25, 2008

Shir K. N. Punji-ji,

Namaskar!

Many thanks for your post because unless someobdy express some view,

we just cannot assess our own views!

It pains me personally to note that you are pained because of some

points discussed in this forum. IMHO, your " pain " is actually

without any factual foundation! Let me clarify my stand point by

point:

<I am very pained that some people are holding our relegion and the

shashtra in contempt.>

Could you kindly quote even a single post where any shastra or the

Hindu religion has been held in contempt.

< I am an astrologer and making accurate predictions not once but

everytime is no coincidence.>

I am really glad to know that your predictions prove cent per cent

correct! Till date no astrologer has claimed cent-per-cent success!

All the top-notch astrologes say that " God only can make cent per

cent correct predictions " . They claim a maximum of seventy per cent

success! Yours is thus an achievement which needs certainly to be

lauded. Prior to that, would you kindly answer the following points:

1. For how long have you been in astrology?

2. What ayanamsha do you use and why?

3. What books on astrology do you use for predictions and why?

4. Have you learnt astrology from some institution like Bharatiya

Vidya Bhavan or ICAS etc. or " at the feet of some guru " ? Or is it

that you have mastered the subject just by self-studying!

5. You claim cent per cent success in your predictions. Are any of

them recorded? Would you kindly let us know as to which predictions

they i.e. the recorded ones were/are and where have they been

recorded?

6. Since what date did your predictions prove cent per cent correct?

From the day you started making predeictions or was it in the

" recent past " ?

7. Do you practise some sidhi or some mantra etc.

Kindly do not treat it as a sort of interrogation but since you have

made an exceptional claim, all I want is to satisfy myself. As

already repeated several times, my maternal grandfather could make

cent per cent correct predictions from horoscopes prepared from

Grahalaghava panchangas! But that success was more because of his

selflesness and sidhi than anything else.

<I find that this forum has been formed to bring discredit to our

great astrologers even of the current time.>

Would you kindly let me know as to which " great astrologer of the

current time " has been discredited and in what manner?

With regards,

AKK

, kn punj <knpunj wrote:

>

> Dear ALL

> Â

> I am very pained that some people are holding our relegion and the

shashtra in contempt.

> I am an astrologer and making accurate predictions not once but

everytime is no coincidence.

> I joined this forum to enhance my knowledge but I find that this

forum has been formed to bring discredit to our great astrologers

even of the current time.

> I see no point in being a part of this forum and become a party to

some people who name themselves as brahmins ........ .

> GOODBYE.

>

> --- On Sat, 23/8/08,

wrote:

>

> Digest Number 119

>

> Saturday, 23 August, 2008, 2:48 PM

>

Science of Vedic astrology

>

> Messages In This Digest (11 Messages)

>

> 1a.

> Fwd:Â " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

Avtar Krishen Kaul

> 1b.

> Re: Fwd:Â " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

Phanindar pb

> 1c.

> Re: Fwd:Â " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

Avtar Krishen Kaul

> 1d.

> Re: Fwd:Â " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

Phanindar pb

>

> 2a.

> Re: FAMILY PROBLEM Phanindar pb

> 2b.

> Re: FAMILY PROBLEM dipika blr

> 2c.

> Re: FAMILY PROBLEM dipika blr

> 2d.

> Re: FAMILY PROBLEM dilip mukherjee

>

> 3a.

> Fwd: [HinduCalendar] " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the

V dipika blr

> 3b.

> Re: Fwd: [HinduCalendar] " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on

t Avtar Krishen Kaul

>

> 4a.

> Fwd:Â Re: [Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad] Eclipses and fear psychosis

Avtar Krishen Kaul

> View All Topics | Create New Topic

> Messages

>

> 1a.

>

> Fwd:Â " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

> Posted by: " Avtar Krishen Kaul " jyotirved Â a_krishen

> Fri AugÂ 22,Â 2008 5:28Â am (PDT)

> HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " <jyotirved@ ..>

> wrote:

>

> Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,

>

> Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic astrology " -

the

> greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by you

in

> July

> 2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008!

>

> I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge of " Vedic

> astrologers "

> about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why they

call

> themselves " Vedic astrologers " ! They base their claims of

astrology

> being

> an " anga " of the Vedas because there is a " Vedanga " named " Vedanga

> Jyotisha " ! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts!

>

> " Vedanga Jyotisha " is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th century BCE

> compiled

> in Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of calculating mean

> tithi and

> nakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the four

> cardinal

> points besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months!

>

> It does not mention anything even by mistake about any planets like

> Budha,

> Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, Vrisha

etc.

> Rashis!

>

> Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology

just

> because there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even know

ABC

> of

> their own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some

> overseas " Vamadevas "

> are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and the

> Vedangas

> themselves first and then enter into discussions on such topics---

> lest they

> put on public display their lack of knowledge of their own shastras

> otherwise!

>

> Here is a challenge to all the " Vedic astrologers " the world over:

> pl.

> quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga

> Jyotisha or

> the Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that matter,

> the so

> called Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, Vrisha etc.

> Rashis

> even by mistake!

>

> We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta either

prior

> to the

> Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika!

>

> We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets either

in

> any of

> the Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to the Surya

> Sidhatna of Maya the mlechha!

>

> Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc.

Rashis

> in the

> Mahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also

> nakshatras times

> without number!

>

> Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic

> astrology is

> taking the Hindu community for a ride!

>

> We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, Shani

> etc.

> planets in the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana-walas,

all

> the

> puranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of Vernal

> Equinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar Sankanti as the

> Uttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year and

so

> on!

> That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya

Sidhanta

> where

> Makar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It

> definitely

> leads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis

> had been

> imported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then later

> incorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu " sishyas of

> Varahamihira " .

>

> Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge for all

the

> Vedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world over! Let

> them

> quote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or Shastra that

has

> advised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on any plan!

> On the

> other hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that

> any " nakshatra

> soochi-brahman " must be treated as a chandala. That is exactly

> contrary to

> what Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita " Yavanas (like

Maya

> of the

> Surya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are

mlechhas

> but

> because they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis " .!

>

> Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the

sidhantas

> and

> karna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha to

> Graha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong orbital

> elements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred years

> back,

> i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, panchangas in

> Bharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works i.e.

> sidhantas

> and karna-granthas! That means that even those panchangas were

> absolutely

> wrong! And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong

panchangas

> till a

> few decades back in India! What is most surprising is that " Vedic

> astrologers " are shouting from housetops that our ancestors right

from

> Varahamihira to " my grandpa " made correct predictions and that is

why

> Hindu

> astrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other

astrology

> the

> world over!

>

> Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was

actually

> thus

> based on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we claim

> that our

> " ancestors " made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU ASTROLOGY

> (KNOWN AS

> VEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS " THE ART (OR IS IT

THE 'SCIENCE'?)

> OF

> MAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA "

>

> Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that?

>

> Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no astrologer has

> till

> date predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!) would

> take

> place where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that your

> namesake

> late P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even hinted

> that

> Shri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More than a

> decade

> back, the Congress I had been written off by the " greatest Vedic

> astrologer

> of the twentieth century " in his Astrological Magazine and had

> advised Smti.

> Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! The

editor

> of

> BABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA government would

> not last

> beyond more than six months after taking over the reins and it is

> learnt

> that on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even started

> making

> preparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around

September

> 2004!

> They are, however, still waiting for that prediction to materialize

> whereas

> in the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's " is not keeping good health " ---

> something

> which no jyotishi had " foreseen " .

>

> That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, does not

> know even

> his time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed that

> he/she had

> predicted that " Singh would be the king " .

>

> That also reminds me that the " greatest Vedic astrologer of the

> twentieth

> century " had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture on

January

> 3 of

> the ensuing year on " Astrology as an aid to the diagnosis of heart

> attacks "

> but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of " Cardiac arrest " --

-

> to

> delivering that " astrologically planned " lecture!

>

> His " Notable Horoscopes " gives the most incorrect planetary

> longitudes of

> all the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has made

correct

> " assessments " /predictions of all the charts in that work! That is

> why I say

> " Vedic astrologers can make correct predictions only from incorrect

> data " .

>

> If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about themselves

> correctly,

> how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else properly?

>

> What is most damaging for these " Vedic astrologers " is the fact

that

> in

> spite of their claims that they have been practicing the so called

> nirayana

> astrology at least over the last seven thousand years, (right from

> the Vedic

> times!) they are still unable to decide as to which ayanamsha, if

> any, is

> the correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen

> ayanamshas like

> Lahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari, Chopra,

> Surya

> Sidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even " zero " ayanamsha going around---

each

> claiming to give the maximum correct results! What they fail to

> understand

> that if any ayanamsha is correct, all the rest are incorrect! All

of

> them

> can never be correct, though all of them can simultaneously be

wrong!

>

> These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that astrological

> rashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their

> imagination since

> the Rashis have no existence actually/astronomic ally and that is

why

> we find

> hundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat twelve

> equal

> segments/compartmen ts/divisions astronomically and that is why

> whether it is

> JPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give planetary

> longitudes

> in terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical works but

> just the

> longitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees!

>

> It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were taken as

> rashis

> (astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what was

> imported into

> India! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana rashis

do

> not

> exist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy or

> confusion

> about sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist at all! It is thus a

> confusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West!

>

> The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike the fake

> Vamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus pocus

and

> they

> did not need any astrological Rashis thus! The Vedic seers named

the

> Vedic

> months just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons and to

> four

> cardinal points----i. e. the two Equinoxes and two Solstices! It is

a

> fallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so called

> Sayana

> or the so called nirayana and that is why we are all celebrating our

> festivals and muhurtas on wrong days!

>

> The most glaring example of the " benefits of 'Vedic astrology " is

> that you,

> the head-cum-founder- cum-owner of the group of " Vedic-astrology "

> ()

> will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only because you

are a

> " Vedic astrologer " whereas actually, as per all the shastras by

which

> you

> and your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on July

24!

> Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating Pitra-

> Amavasya on

> the day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period which is

> actually

> suitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages during

> actual

> pitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will

continue

> to

> take place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologers- and thereby

the

> whole

> of Hindu community--- only because you believe in Mesha etc. Rashis-

--

> whether

> the so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire that

the

> rashi

> based hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known as " Vedic

> astrology " !

>

> When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in " Vedic-astrology

> () "

> forum, you just summarily banned me from that group on the

> recommendation of

> some Western " Vedic astrologer " who was finding it difficult to

> market his

> trinkets through your forum after reading my arguments!

>

> However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join

>

> http://groups. / group/HinduCalen dar

>

> forum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu community is

> being

> taken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the festivals on

> wrong days

> by " Vedic astrologers " just to make a fast buck or gain

> some " reputation " .

> You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum without

> any

> restrictions since the posts to that forum are not moderated at

all!

>

> I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some people,

> including

> you, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what intrigues me is your

> silence and

> the silence of other scholars about the various dates of birth of

> Bhagwan

> Rama according to " Vedic astrologers " ! Tfshey say He incarnated

> anywhere

> between 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is supposed to

be

> hundreds of thousands of years old! Even a " his holiness of the art

> of

> something " has " confirmed " (sic!) that the date of birth of Bhagwan

> Ram

> was/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared by an

> Income Tax

> Commissioner for that date!

>

> Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing stock of

the

> entire

> Hindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki Ramayana, on

> the basis

> of which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on January 14,

> 5114 BCE

> as per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000 years?

> These

> jyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well!

>

> In any case, predictive astrologers are requested that if predictive

> gimmicks are a necessary evil for them and if they cannot survive

> without

> them just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, these

> jyotishis must

> at least leave the Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke their

> filthy

> nose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals and

> muhurtas! Let

> them go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or Maloo

> will be

> the PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas-- -but let

> them just

> step out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a

> premonition that

> they will not do so because whenever any seminar or conference is

held

> regarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably always

> attended

> by and presided over by " Vedic astrologers " with the result that we

> are

> always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals as

advised

> by

> Lahiri-walas instead of the shastras!

>

> It thus goes without saying that I will have to continue my " Dharma-

> yudha "

> against " Vedic astrology " for streamlining the Hindu calendar---

> because the

> real Vedic calendar and predictive gimmicks cannot exist side by

side

> in the

> real Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite of the

> fact that

> I have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I

know " yato

> dharmas tato jayah " !

>

> With regards,

>

> AKK

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post

> Messages in this topic (4)

> 1b.

>

> Re: Fwd:Â " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

> Posted by: " Phanindar pb " pbphanindar Â pbphanindar

> Fri AugÂ 22,Â 2008 7:09Â am (PDT)

> Dear AKK

> Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for mumdane

predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY

IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to continue ur

DHARMA YUDDAM!Ð° However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha

paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in answering

the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis,

Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info

> With best wishes

>

> P.B.Phanindar

> Chartered Accountant

> 99893 99195

> 98662 21340

>

> --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com>

> Fwd: " Vedic astrology " -- -the

greatest fraud on the Vedas!

>

> Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM

>

> HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " <jyotirved@ ..>

> wrote:

>

> Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,

>

> Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic astrology " -

the

> greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by you

in

> July

> 2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008!

>

> I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge of " Vedic

> astrologers "

> about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why they

call

> themselves " Vedic astrologers " ! They base their claims of

astrology

> being

> an " anga " of the Vedas because there is a " Vedanga " named " Vedanga

> Jyotisha " ! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts!

>

> " Vedanga Jyotisha " is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th century BCE

> compiled

> in Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of calculating mean

> tithi and

> nakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the four

> cardinal

> points besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months!

>

> It does not mention anything even by mistake about any planets like

> Budha,

> Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, Vrisha

etc.

> Rashis!

>

> Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology

just

> because there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even know

ABC

> of

> their own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some

> overseas " Vamadevas "

> are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and the

> Vedangas

> themselves first and then enter into discussions on such topics---

> lest they

> put on public display their lack of knowledge of their own shastras

> otherwise!

>

> Here is a challenge to all the " Vedic astrologers " the world over:

> pl.

> quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga

> Jyotisha or

> the Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that matter,

> the so

> called Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, Vrisha etc.

> Rashis

> even by mistake!

>

> We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta either

prior

> to the

> Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika!

>

> We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets either

in

> any of

> the Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to the Surya

> Sidhatna of Maya the mlechha!

>

> Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc.

Rashis

> in the

> Mahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also

> nakshatras times

> without number!

>

> Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic

> astrology is

> taking the Hindu community for a ride!

>

> We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, Shani

> etc.

> planets in the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana-walas,

all

> the

> puranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of Vernal

> Equinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar Sankanti as the

> Uttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year and

so

> on!

> That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya

Sidhanta

> where

> Makar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It

> definitely

> leads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis

> had been

> imported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then later

> incorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu " sishyas of

> Varahamihira " .

>

> Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge for all

the

> Vedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world over! Let

> them

> quote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or Shastra that

has

> advised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on any plan!

> On the

> other hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that

> any " nakshatra

> soochi-brahman " must be treated as a chandala. That is exactly

> contrary to

> what Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita " Yavanas (like

Maya

> of the

> Surya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are

mlechhas

> but

> because they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis " .!

>

> Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the

sidhantas

> and

> karna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha to

> Graha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong orbital

> elements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred years

> back,

> i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, panchangas in

> Bharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works i.e.

> sidhantas

> and karna-granthas! That means that even those panchangas were

> absolutely

> wrong! And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong

panchangas

> till a

> few decades back in India! What is most surprising is that " Vedic

> astrologers " are shouting from housetops that our ancestors right

from

> Varahamihira to " my grandpa " made correct predictions and that is

why

> Hindu

> astrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other

astrology

> the

> world over!

>

> Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was

actually

> thus

> based on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we claim

> that our

> " ancestors " made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU ASTROLOGY

> (KNOWN AS

> VEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS " THE ART (OR IS IT

THE 'SCIENCE'?)

> OF

> MAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA "

>

> Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that?

>

> Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no astrologer has

> till

> date predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!) would

> take

> place where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that your

> namesake

> late P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even hinted

> that

> Shri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More than a

> decade

> back, the Congress I had been written off by the " greatest Vedic

> astrologer

> of the twentieth century " in his Astrological Magazine and had

> advised Smti.

> Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! The

editor

> of

> BABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA government would

> not last

> beyond more than six months after taking over the reins and it is

> learnt

> that on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even started

> making

> preparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around

September

> 2004!

> They are, however, still waiting for that prediction to materialize

> whereas

> in the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's " is not keeping good health " ---

> something

> which no jyotishi had " foreseen " .

>

> That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, does not

> know even

> his time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed that

> he/she had

> predicted that " Singh would be the king " .

>

> That also reminds me that the " greatest Vedic astrologer of the

> twentieth

> century " had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture on

January

> 3 of

> the ensuing year on " Astrology as an aid to the diagnosis of heart

> attacks "

> but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of " Cardiac arrest " --

-

> to

> delivering that " astrologically planned " lecture!

>

> His " Notable Horoscopes " gives the most incorrect planetary

> longitudes of

> all the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has made

correct

> " assessments " /predictions of all the charts in that work! That is

> why I say

> " Vedic astrologers can make correct predictions only from incorrect

> data " .

>

> If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about themselves

> correctly,

> how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else properly?

>

> What is most damaging for these " Vedic astrologers " is the fact

that

> in

> spite of their claims that they have been practicing the so called

> nirayana

> astrology at least over the last seven thousand years, (right from

> the Vedic

> times!) they are still unable to decide as to which ayanamsha, if

> any, is

> the correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen

> ayanamshas like

> Lahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari, Chopra,

> Surya

> Sidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even " zero " ayanamsha going around---

each

> claiming to give the maximum correct results! What they fail to

> understand

> that if any ayanamsha is correct, all the rest are incorrect! All

of

> them

> can never be correct, though all of them can simultaneously be

wrong!

>

> These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that astrological

> rashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their

> imagination since

> the Rashis have no existence actually/astronomic ally and that is

why

> we find

> hundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat twelve

> equal

> segments/compartmen ts/divisions astronomically and that is why

> whether it is

> JPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give planetary

> longitudes

> in terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical works but

> just the

> longitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees!

>

> It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were taken as

> rashis

> (astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what was

> imported into

> India! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana rashis

do

> not

> exist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy or

> confusion

> about sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist at all! It is thus a

> confusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West!

>

> The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike the fake

> Vamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus pocus

and

> they

> did not need any astrological Rashis thus! The Vedic seers named

the

> Vedic

> months just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons and to

> four

> cardinal points----i. e. the two Equinoxes and two Solstices! It is

a

> fallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so called

> Sayana

> or the so called nirayana and that is why we are all celebrating our

> festivals and muhurtas on wrong days!

>

> The most glaring example of the " benefits of 'Vedic astrology " is

> that you,

> the head-cum-founder- cum-owner of the group of " Vedic-astrology "

> ()

> will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only because you

are a

> " Vedic astrologer " whereas actually, as per all the shastras by

which

> you

> and your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on July

24!

> Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating Pitra-

> Amavasya on

> the day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period which is

> actually

> suitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages during

> actual

> pitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will

continue

> to

> take place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologers- and thereby

the

> whole

> of Hindu community--- only because you believe in Mesha etc. Rashis-

--

> whether

> the so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire that

the

> rashi

> based hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known as " Vedic

> astrology " !

>

> When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in " Vedic-astrology

> () "

> forum, you just summarily banned me from that group on the

> recommendation of

> some Western " Vedic astrologer " who was finding it difficult to

> market his

> trinkets through your forum after reading my arguments!

>

> However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join

>

> http://groups. / group/HinduCalen dar

>

> forum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu community is

> being

> taken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the festivals on

> wrong days

> by " Vedic astrologers " just to make a fast buck or gain

> some " reputation " .

> You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum without

> any

> restrictions since the posts to that forum are not moderated at

all!

>

> I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some people,

> including

> you, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what intrigues me is your

> silence and

> the silence of other scholars about the various dates of birth of

> Bhagwan

> Rama according to " Vedic astrologers " ! Tfshey say He incarnated

> anywhere

> between 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is supposed to

be

> hundreds of thousands of years old! Even a " his holiness of the art

> of

> something " has " confirmed " (sic!) that the date of birth of Bhagwan

> Ram

> was/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared by an

> Income Tax

> Commissioner for that date!

>

> Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing stock of

the

> entire

> Hindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki Ramayana, on

> the basis

> of which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on January 14,

> 5114 BCE

> as per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000 years?

> These

> jyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well!

>

> In any case, predictive astrologers are requested that if predictive

> gimmicks are a necessary evil for them and if they cannot survive

> without

> them just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, these

> jyotishis must

> at least leave the Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke their

> filthy

> nose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals and

> muhurtas! Let

> them go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or Maloo

> will be

> the PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas-- -but let

> them just

> step out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a

> premonition that

> they will not do so because whenever any seminar or conference is

held

> regarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably always

> attended

> by and presided over by " Vedic astrologers " with the result that we

> are

> always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals as

advised

> by

> Lahiri-walas instead of the shastras!

>

> It thus goes without saying that I will have to continue my " Dharma-

> yudha "

> against " Vedic astrology " for streamlining the Hindu calendar---

> because the

> real Vedic calendar and predictive gimmicks cannot exist side by

side

> in the

> real Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite of the

> fact that

> I have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I

know " yato

> dharmas tato jayah " !

>

> With regards,

>

> AKK

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post

> Messages in this topic (4)

> 1c.

>

> Re: Fwd:Â " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

> Posted by: " Avtar Krishen Kaul " jyotirved Â a_krishen

> Fri AugÂ 22,Â 2008 9:10Â am (PDT)

> Shri P. B. Phaninderji,

> Nmaskar!

> <astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY IN DIVERSITY if

only

> u care to observe! >

>

> It appears you are confusing astrology with

> astronomy/consmolog y/cosmogeny!

>

> <However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha paddathi

would

> certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the specific

> question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras etc.,>

>

> What is " Prasna Bhagha paddathi " which works without rashis and

> nakshatras etc.? I am hearing about it for the first time.

> Regards,

> AKK

>

> , Phanindar pb

> <pbphanindar@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear AKK

> > Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for mumdane

> predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY

> IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to continue

ur

> DHARMA YUDDAM!? However, predictive astrology based on Prasna

Bhagha

> paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in

answering

> the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis,

> Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info

> > With best wishes

> >

> > P.B.Phanindar

> > Chartered Accountant

> > 99893 99195

> > 98662 21340

> >

> > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..> wrote:

> >

> > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..>

> > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " -- -the

greatest

> fraud on the Vedas!

> >

> > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM

> >

> > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved "

<jyotirved@ ..>

> > wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,

> >

> > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic

astrology " -

> the

> > greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by

you

>

> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post

> Messages in this topic (4)

> 1d.

>

> Re: Fwd:Â " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

> Posted by: " Phanindar pb " pbphanindar Â pbphanindar

> Sat AugÂ 23,Â 2008 1:37Â am (PDT)

> Dear AKK

> There is no confusion whatsoever in my mind when I said that

through Astrology we can achieve Unity in diversity. We are able to

understand oneness of this universe through the science of astrology

to that extent it is fine! the only problem is applying this

knowledge 4 mundane and reducing it to fortune telling to the

individual level only has brought disrespect to the science!Ð° The is

always perfect however, the scientist can always go wrong!

> Regarding PBP it is based on Prasna sastra of Kalidasa synthesysed

by KP and PBP!

>

> P.B.Phanindar

> Chartered Accountant

> 99893 99195

> 98662 21340

>

> --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com>

> Re: Fwd: " Vedic astrology " -- -the

greatest fraud on the Vedas!

>

> Friday, August 22, 2008, 9:40 PM

>

> Shri P. B. Phaninderji,

> Nmaskar!

> <astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY IN DIVERSITY if

only

> u care to observe! >

>

> It appears you are confusing astrology with

> astronomy/consmolog y/cosmogeny!

>

> <However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha paddathi

would

> certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the specific

> question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras etc.,>

>

> What is " Prasna Bhagha paddathi " which works without rashis and

> nakshatras etc.? I am hearing about it for the first time.

> Regards,

> AKK

>

> , Phanindar pb

> <pbphanindar@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear AKK

> > Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for mumdane

> predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY

> IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to continue

ur

> DHARMA YUDDAM!? However, predictive astrology based on Prasna

Bhagha

> paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in

answering

> the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis,

> Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info

> > With best wishes

> >

> > P.B.Phanindar

> > Chartered Accountant

> > 99893 99195

> > 98662 21340

> >

> > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..> wrote:

> >

> > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..>

> > Fwd: " Vedic astrology " -- -the

greatest

> fraud on the Vedas!

> >

> > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM

> >

> > HinduCalendar, " jyotirved "

<jyotirved@ ..>

> > wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,

> >

> > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic

astrology " -

> the

> > greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by

you

>

> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post

> Messages in this topic (4)

>

> 2a.

>

> Re: FAMILY PROBLEM

> Posted by: " Phanindar pb " pbphanindar Â pbphanindar

> Fri AugÂ 22,Â 2008 6:45Â am (PDT)

> Dear Mr. Dilip

> Please pray ur ista deivam( Your favourite God) and frame only one

question about only one problem at a time with a specific question

and a time frame then note the question time of writing! R u from

HYD? otherwise specify the place where u r writing the question then

pray once again ur fav. god and write down a below 250 i.e. between 1

to 249 both numbers inclusive! note down that time again The number u

r choosing should not be ur lucky or fav.number It should flash in ur

mind when ur urge to know a particular problem is optimum! similarly

again pray and write a number between 1 to 108 (both inclusive) note

down that time again as per ur watch! Once again for the last time

write down a number between 1 to 7 ( both inclusive) again note that

time and pass it on!! Pl. remember oly one specific question only at

a time! The Divine direction would help u in solving ur problem!

> All the very best!

>

> P.B.Phanindar

> Chartered Accountant

> 99893 99195

> 98662 21340

>

> --- On Fri, 8/22/08, dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co. in>

wrote:

>

> dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co. in>

> FAMILY PROBLEM

>

> Friday, August 22, 2008, 9:54 AM

>

> Respected Members,

>

> Ð° Namaskar

>

> My details are: Date of Birth- 21-04-1971, Time: 11.55 PM, Place:

Dhanbad (Bihar).

>

> My wifes date of birth: 08-06-1981, Time: 8. 20 PM. Place: Rourkela

(Orissa)

>

> Sir, I have been facing constant family tension since my marriage

on 25-02-2005. I live in a joint family with my wife, daughter,

father , mother & two un married sisters. There is daily tension

between two of us due to some reason or the other.

>

> I would like to request youÐ° to pl. guide me regarding the above. I

would like to know when will this problem stop. Will I be able to

lead a peaceful life with all family members ever. Is there any

chance of seperation between both of us. What should be my present

action to minimise the ill effect.

>

> I will be very thankful if you can pl. answer the above questions.

>

> I am in a very bad mental state. Pl. help me.

>

> Thanking U all......... ......... ... Dilip.

>

> Connect with friends all over the world. Get India Messenger.

>

> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post

> Messages in this topic (5)

> 2b.

>

> Re: FAMILY PROBLEM

> Posted by: " dipika blr " blr.aspirant Â blraspirant

> Fri AugÂ 22,Â 2008 12:41Â pm (PDT)

> Dear Dilip ji,

>

> Please visit a marriage counselor (family counseling /individual

counseling)

> will help you immensely.

>

> Ñ€Ð´â••Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´Ð¿Ñ€Ð´Ð¾Ñ€ÐµÐ—Ñ€Ð´â•¡ Ñ€Ð´Ð¬Ñ€Ð´Ð¿Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐ—

>

> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 9:54 AM, dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@

.co. in>wrote:

>

> > Respected Members,

> >

> > Namaskar

> >

> > My details are: Date of Birth- 21-04-1971, Time: 11.55 PM, Place:

Dhanbad

> > (Bihar).

> >

> > My wifes date of birth: 08-06-1981, Time: 8. 20 PM. Place:

Rourkela

> > (Orissa)

> >

> > Sir, I have been facing constant family tension since my marriage

on

> > 25-02-2005. I live in a joint family with my wife, daughter,

father , mother

> > & two un married sisters. There is daily tension between two of

us due to

> > some reason or the other.

> >

> > I would like to request you to pl. guide me regarding the above.

I would

> > like to know when will this problem stop. Will I be able to lead

a peaceful

> > life with all family members ever. Is there any chance of

seperation between

> > both of us. What should be my present action to minimise the ill

effect.

> >

> > I will be very thankful if you can pl. answer the above questions.

> >

> > I am in a very bad mental state. Pl. help me.

> >

> > Thanking U all......... ......... ... Dilip.

> >

> > ------------ --------- ---------

> > Connect with friends all over the world. Get India

Messenger.<http://in.rd. / tagline_messenge

r_1/*http: //in.messenger. / ?wm=n/>

> >

>

> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post

> Messages in this topic (5)

> 2c.

>

> Re: FAMILY PROBLEM

> Posted by: " dipika blr " blr.aspirant Â blraspirant

> Fri AugÂ 22,Â 2008 12:46Â pm (PDT)

> Visit this site http://happycouples .in/ and contact the subject

expert.

>

> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 7:15 PM, Phanindar pb <pbphanindar@

> wrote:

>

> > Dear Mr. Dilip

> > Please pray ur ista deivam( Your favourite God) and frame only

one question

> > about only one problem at a time with a specific question and a

time frame

> > then note the question time of writing! R u from HYD? otherwise

specify the

> > place where u r writing the question then pray once again ur fav.

god and

> > write down a below 250 i.e. between 1 to 249 both numbers

inclusive! note

> > down that time again The number u r choosing should not be ur

lucky or

> > fav.number It should flash in ur mind when ur urge to know a

particular

> > problem is optimum! similarly again pray and write a number

between 1 to 108

> > (both inclusive) note down that time again as per ur watch! Once

again for

> > the last time write down a number between 1 to 7 ( both

inclusive) again

> > note that time and pass it on!! Pl. remember oly one specific

question only

> > at a time! The Divine direction would help u in solving ur

problem!

> > All the very best!

> >

> > P.B.Phanindar

> > Chartered Accountant

> > 99893 99195

> > 98662 21340

> >

> > --- On *Fri, 8/22/08, dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co.

in>* wrote:

> >

> > dilip mukherjee <dilip.12345@ .co. in>

> > FAMILY PROBLEM

> >

> > Friday, August 22, 2008, 9:54 AM

> >

> > Respected Members,

> >

> > Namaskar

> >

> > My details are: Date of Birth- 21-04-1971, Time: 11.55 PM, Place:

Dhanbad

> > (Bihar).

> >

> > My wifes date of birth: 08-06-1981, Time: 8. 20 PM. Place:

Rourkela

> > (Orissa)

> >

> > Sir, I have been facing constant family tension since my marriage

on

> > 25-02-2005. I live in a joint family with my wife, daughter,

father , mother

> > & two un married sisters. There is daily tension between two of

us due to

> > some reason or the other.

> >

> > I would like to request you to pl. guide me regarding the above.

I would

> > like to know when will this problem stop. Will I be able to lead

a peaceful

> > life with all family members ever. Is there any chance of

seperation between

> > both of us. What should be my present action to minimise the ill

effect.

> >

> > I will be very thankful if you can pl. answer the above questions.

> >

> > I am in a very bad mental state. Pl. help me.

> >

> > Thanking U all......... ......... ... Dilip.

> >

> > ------------ --------- ---------

> > Connect with friends all over the world. Get India

Messenger.<http://in.rd. / tagline_messenge

r_1/*http: //in.messenger. / ?wm=n/>

> >

>

> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post

> Messages in this topic (5)

> 2d.

>

> Re: FAMILY PROBLEM

> Posted by: " dilip mukherjee " dilip.12345 Â dilip.12345

> Fri AugÂ 22,Â 2008 10:31Â pm (PDT)

> Phanindar Ji Pranam,

> Ð°

details are as

follows:-

> Ð°

> 1) Question:- When will the problems in my family life end?Ð°Ð° (Time

11.01 AM)

> Ð°Ð°Ð° I am writing this question from Rourkela, Orissa.

> Ð°

> 2) Number below 250: 239Ð° (Time 11.04 AM)

> Ð°

> 3) Number between 1 & 108: 92Ð° (Time 11.05 AM)

> Ð°

> 4) Number between 1 to 7: 5 (Time 11.06 AM)

> Ð°

> Sir, hope the above is as per your direction.

> Ð°

> I am waiting egerly to receive a reply from you.

> Ð°

> DILIP.

>

> --- On Fri, 22/8/08, Phanindar pb <pbphanindar@ > wrote:

>

> Phanindar pb <pbphanindar@ >

> Re: FAMILY PROBLEM

>

> Friday, 22 August, 2008, 7:15 PM