Fwd: Vedic astrology---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

August 22, 2008

HinduCalendar , " jyotirved " <jyotirved

wrote:

Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,

Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic astrology " -the

greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by you in

July

2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008!

I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge of " Vedic

astrologers "

about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why they call

themselves " Vedic astrologers " ! They base their claims of astrology

being

an " anga " of the Vedas because there is a " Vedanga " named " Vedanga

Jyotisha " ! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts!

" Vedanga Jyotisha " is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th century BCE

compiled

in Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of calculating mean

tithi and

nakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the four

cardinal

points besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months!

It does not mention anything even by mistake about any planets like

Budha,

Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, Vrisha etc.

Rashis!

Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology just

because there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even know ABC

of

their own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some

overseas " Vamadevas "

are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and the

Vedangas

themselves first and then enter into discussions on such topics---

lest they

put on public display their lack of knowledge of their own shastras

otherwise!

Here is a challenge to all the " Vedic astrologers " the world over:

pl.

quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga

Jyotisha or

the Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that matter,

the so

called Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, Vrisha etc.

Rashis

even by mistake!

We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta either prior

to the

Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika!

We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets either in

any of

the Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to the Surya

Sidhatna of Maya the mlechha!

Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis

in the

Mahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also

nakshatras times

without number!

Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic

astrology is

taking the Hindu community for a ride!

We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, Shani

etc.

planets in the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana-walas, all

the

puranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of Vernal

Equinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar Sankanti as the

Uttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year and so

on!

That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya Sidhanta

where

Makar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It

definitely

leads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis

had been

imported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then later

incorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu " sishyas of

Varahamihira " .

Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge for all the

Vedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world over! Let

them

quote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or Shastra that has

advised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on any plan!

On the

other hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that

any " nakshatra

soochi-brahman " must be treated as a chandala. That is exactly

contrary to

what Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita " Yavanas (like Maya

of the

Surya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are mlechhas

but

because they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis " .!

Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the sidhantas

and

karna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha to

Graha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong orbital

elements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred years

back,

i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, panchangas in

Bharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works i.e.

sidhantas

and karna-granthas! That means that even those panchangas were

absolutely

wrong! And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong panchangas

till a

few decades back in India! What is most surprising is that " Vedic

astrologers " are shouting from housetops that our ancestors right from

Varahamihira to " my grandpa " made correct predictions and that is why

Hindu

astrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other astrology

the

world over!

Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was actually

thus

based on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we claim

that our

" ancestors " made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU ASTROLOGY

(KNOWN AS

VEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS " THE ART (OR IS IT THE 'SCIENCE'?)

OF

MAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA "

Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that?

Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no astrologer has

till

date predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!) would

take

place where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that your

namesake

late P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even hinted

that

Shri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More than a

decade

back, the Congress I had been written off by the " greatest Vedic

astrologer

of the twentieth century " in his Astrological Magazine and had

advised Smti.

Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! The editor

of

BABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA government would

not last

beyond more than six months after taking over the reins and it is

learnt

that on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even started

making

preparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around September

2004!

They are, however, still waiting for that prediction to materialize

whereas

in the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's " is not keeping good health " ---

something

which no jyotishi had " foreseen " .

That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, does not

know even

his time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed that

he/she had

predicted that " Singh would be the king " .

That also reminds me that the " greatest Vedic astrologer of the

twentieth

century " had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture on January

3 of

the ensuing year on " Astrology as an aid to the diagnosis of heart

attacks "

but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of " Cardiac arrest " ---

to

delivering that " astrologically planned " lecture!

His " Notable Horoscopes " gives the most incorrect planetary

longitudes of

all the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has made correct

" assessments " /predictions of all the charts in that work! That is

why I say

" Vedic astrologers can make correct predictions only from incorrect

data " .

If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about themselves

correctly,

how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else properly?

What is most damaging for these " Vedic astrologers " is the fact that

in

spite of their claims that they have been practicing the so called

nirayana

astrology at least over the last seven thousand years, (right from

the Vedic

times!) they are still unable to decide as to which ayanamsha, if

any, is

the correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen

ayanamshas like

Lahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari, Chopra,

Surya

Sidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even " zero " ayanamsha going around---each

claiming to give the maximum correct results! What they fail to

understand

that if any ayanamsha is correct, all the rest are incorrect! All of

them

can never be correct, though all of them can simultaneously be wrong!

These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that astrological

rashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their

imagination since

the Rashis have no existence actually/astronomically and that is why

we find

hundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat twelve

equal

segments/compartments/divisions astronomically and that is why

whether it is

JPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give planetary

longitudes

in terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical works but

just the

longitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees!

It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were taken as

rashis

(astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what was

imported into

India! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana rashis do

not

exist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy or

confusion

about sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist at all! It is thus a

confusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West!

The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike the fake

Vamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus pocus and

they

did not need any astrological Rashis thus! The Vedic seers named the

Vedic

months just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons and to

four

cardinal points----i.e. the two Equinoxes and two Solstices! It is a

fallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so called

Sayana

or the so called nirayana and that is why we are all celebrating our

festivals and muhurtas on wrong days!

The most glaring example of the " benefits of 'Vedic astrology " is

that you,

the head-cum-founder-cum-owner of the group of " Vedic-astrology "

()

will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only because you are a

" Vedic astrologer " whereas actually, as per all the shastras by which

you

and your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on July 24!

Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating Pitra-

Amavasya on

the day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period which is

actually

suitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages during

actual

pitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will continue

to

take place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologers-and thereby the

whole

of Hindu community---only because you believe in Mesha etc. Rashis---

whether

the so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire that the

rashi

based hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known as " Vedic

astrology " !

When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in " Vedic-astrology

() "

forum, you just summarily banned me from that group on the

recommendation of

some Western " Vedic astrologer " who was finding it difficult to

market his

trinkets through your forum after reading my arguments!

However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join

HinduCalendar

forum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu community is

being

taken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the festivals on

wrong days

by " Vedic astrologers " just to make a fast buck or gain

some " reputation " .

You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum without

any

restrictions since the posts to that forum are not moderated at all!

I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some people,

including

you, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what intrigues me is your

silence and

the silence of other scholars about the various dates of birth of

Bhagwan

Rama according to " Vedic astrologers " ! Tfshey say He incarnated

anywhere

between 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is supposed to be

hundreds of thousands of years old! Even a " his holiness of the art

of

something " has " confirmed " (sic!) that the date of birth of Bhagwan

Ram

was/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared by an

Income Tax

Commissioner for that date!

Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing stock of the

entire

Hindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki Ramayana, on

the basis

of which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on January 14,

5114 BCE

as per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000 years?

These

jyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well!

In any case, predictive astrologers are requested that if predictive

gimmicks are a necessary evil for them and if they cannot survive

without

them just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, these

jyotishis must

at least leave the Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke their

filthy

nose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals and

muhurtas! Let

them go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or Maloo

will be

the PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas---but let

them just

step out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a

premonition that

they will not do so because whenever any seminar or conference is held

regarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably always

attended

by and presided over by " Vedic astrologers " with the result that we

are

always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals as advised

by

Lahiri-walas instead of the shastras!

It thus goes without saying that I will have to continue my " Dharma-

yudha "

against " Vedic astrology " for streamlining the Hindu calendar---

because the

real Vedic calendar and predictive gimmicks cannot exist side by side

in the

real Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite of the

fact that

I have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I know " yato

dharmas tato jayah " !

With regards,

AKK

--- End forwarded message ---

August 22, 2008

Dear AKK

Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for mumdane predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to continue ur DHARMA YUDDAM! However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info

With best wishesP.B.PhanindarChartered Accountant99893 9919598662 21340--- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved wrote:

Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved Fwd: "Vedic astrology"---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM

HinduCalendar, "jyotirved" <jyotirved@. ..> wrote:Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,Many thanks for your comments on my article/post "Vedic astrology"-thegreatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by you in July2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008!I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge of "Vedic astrologers"about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why they callthemselves "Vedic astrologers" ! They base their claims of astrology beingan "anga" of the Vedas because there is a "Vedanga" named "VedangaJyotisha"! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts!"Vedanga Jyotisha" is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th century BCE compiledin Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of calculating mean

tithi andnakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the four cardinalpoints besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months!It does not mention anything even by mistake about any planets like Budha,Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis!Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology justbecause there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even know ABC oftheir own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some overseas "Vamadevas"are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and the Vedangasthemselves first and then enter into discussions on such topics---lest theyput on public display their lack of knowledge of their own shastrasotherwise!Here is a challenge to all the "Vedic astrologers" the world over: pl.quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha

orthe Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that matter, the socalled Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashiseven by mistake!We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta either prior to theSurya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika!We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets either in any ofthe Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to the SuryaSidhatna of Maya the mlechha!Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in theMahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also nakshatras timeswithout number! Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology istaking the Hindu community for a ride!We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, Shani etc.planets in the Puranas but much

to the chagrin of nirayana-walas, all thepuranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of VernalEquinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar Sankanti as theUttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year and so on!That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya Sidhanta whereMakar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It definitelyleads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis had beenimported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then laterincorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu "sishyas of Varahamihira" .Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge for all theVedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world over! Let themquote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or Shastra that hasadvised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on any plan!

On theother hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that any "nakshatrasoochi-brahman" must be treated as a chandala. That is exactly contrary towhat Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita "Yavanas (like Maya of theSurya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are mlechhas butbecause they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis".!Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the sidhantas andkarna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha toGraha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong orbitalelements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred years back,i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, panchangas inBharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works i.e. sidhantasand karna-granthas! That means that even those panchangas were absolutelywrong! And horoscopes were

prepared from those very wrong panchangas till afew decades back in India! What is most surprising is that "Vedicastrologers" are shouting from housetops that our ancestors right fromVarahamihira to "my grandpa" made correct predictions and that is why Hinduastrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other astrology theworld over! Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was actually thusbased on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we claim that our"ancestors" made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU ASTROLOGY (KNOWN ASVEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS "THE ART (OR IS IT THE 'SCIENCE'?) OFMAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA"Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that? Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no astrologer has tilldate predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!) would

takeplace where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that your namesakelate P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even hinted thatShri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More than a decadeback, the Congress I had been written off by the "greatest Vedic astrologerof the twentieth century" in his Astrological Magazine and had advised Smti.Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! The editor ofBABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA government would not lastbeyond more than six months after taking over the reins and it is learntthat on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even started makingpreparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around September 2004!They are, however, still waiting for that prediction to materialize whereasin the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's "is not keeping good

health"---somethingwhich no jyotishi had "foreseen".That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, does not know evenhis time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed that he/she hadpredicted that "Singh would be the king".That also reminds me that the "greatest Vedic astrologer of the twentiethcentury" had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture on January 3 ofthe ensuing year on "Astrology as an aid to the diagnosis of heart attacks"but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of "Cardiac arrest"--- todelivering that "astrologically planned" lecture!His "Notable Horoscopes" gives the most incorrect planetary longitudes ofall the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has made correct"assessments" /predictions of all the charts in that work! That is why I say"Vedic astrologers can make correct predictions only from

incorrect data".If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about themselves correctly,how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else properly? What is most damaging for these "Vedic astrologers" is the fact that inspite of their claims that they have been practicing the so called nirayanaastrology at least over the last seven thousand years, (right from the Vedictimes!) they are still unable to decide as to which ayanamsha, if any, isthe correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen ayanamshas likeLahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari, Chopra, SuryaSidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even "zero" ayanamsha going around---eachclaiming to give the maximum correct results! What they fail to understandthat if any ayanamsha is correct, all the rest are incorrect! All of themcan never be correct, though all of them can

simultaneously be wrong!These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that astrologicalrashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their imagination sincethe Rashis have no existence actually/astronomic ally and that is why we findhundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat twelve equalsegments/compartmen ts/divisions astronomically and that is why whether it isJPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give planetary longitudesin terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical works but just thelongitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees! It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were taken as rashis(astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what was imported intoIndia! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana rashis do notexist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy or

confusionabout sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist at all! It is thus aconfusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West!The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike the fakeVamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus pocus and theydid not need any astrological Rashis thus! The Vedic seers named the Vedicmonths just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons and to fourcardinal points----i. e. the two Equinoxes and two Solstices! It is afallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so called Sayanaor the so called nirayana and that is why we are all celebrating ourfestivals and muhurtas on wrong days! The most glaring example of the "benefits of 'Vedic astrology" is that you,the head-cum-founder- cum-owner of the group of "Vedic-astrology" ()will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only because

you are a"Vedic astrologer" whereas actually, as per all the shastras by which youand your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on July 24!Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating Pitra-Amavasya onthe day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period which is actuallysuitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages during actualpitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will continue totake place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologers- and thereby the wholeof Hindu community--- only because you believe in Mesha etc. Rashis---whetherthe so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire that the rashibased hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known as "Vedic astrology"!When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in "Vedic-astrology ()"forum, you just summarily banned me from that group

on the recommendation ofsome Western "Vedic astrologer" who was finding it difficult to market histrinkets through your forum after reading my arguments!However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join http://groups. / group/HinduCalen darforum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu community is beingtaken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the festivals on wrong daysby "Vedic astrologers" just to make a fast buck or gain some "reputation" .You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum without anyrestrictions since the posts to that forum are not moderated at all! I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some people, includingyou, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what intrigues me is your silence andthe silence of other

scholars about the various dates of birth of BhagwanRama according to "Vedic astrologers" ! Tfshey say He incarnated anywherebetween 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is supposed to behundreds of thousands of years old! Even a "his holiness of the art ofsomething" has "confirmed" (sic!) that the date of birth of Bhagwan Ramwas/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared by an Income TaxCommissioner for that date!Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing stock of the entireHindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki Ramayana, on the basisof which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on January 14, 5114 BCEas per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000 years? Thesejyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well!In any case, predictive astrologers are requested that if predictivegimmicks are a

necessary evil for them and if they cannot survive withoutthem just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, these jyotishis mustat least leave the Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke their filthynose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals and muhurtas! Letthem go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or Maloo will bethe PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas-- -but let them juststep out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a premonition thatthey will not do so because whenever any seminar or conference is heldregarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably always attendedby and presided over by "Vedic astrologers" with the result that we arealways back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals as advised byLahiri-walas instead of the shastras!It thus goes without saying that I will have

to continue my "Dharma-yudha"against "Vedic astrology" for streamlining the Hindu calendar---because thereal Vedic calendar and predictive gimmicks cannot exist side by side in thereal Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite of the fact thatI have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I know "yatodharmas tato jayah"!With regards,AKK--- End forwarded message ---

August 22, 2008

Shri P. B. Phaninderji,

Nmaskar!

<astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY IN DIVERSITY if only

u care to observe! >

It appears you are confusing astrology with

astronomy/consmology/cosmogeny!

<However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha paddathi would

certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the specific

question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras etc.,>

What is " Prasna Bhagha paddathi " which works without rashis and

nakshatras etc.? I am hearing about it for the first time.

Regards,

AKK

, Phanindar pb

<pbphanindar wrote:

>

> Dear AKK

> Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for mumdane

predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY

IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to continue ur

DHARMA YUDDAM!? However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha

paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in answering

the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis,

Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info

> With best wishes

>

> P.B.Phanindar

> Chartered Accountant

> 99893 99195

> 98662 21340

>

> --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved wrote:

>

> Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved

> Fwd: " Vedic astrology " ---the greatest

fraud on the Vedas!

>

> Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM

HinduCalendar, " jyotirved " <jyotirved@ ..>

> wrote:

>

> Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,

>

> Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic astrology " -

the

> greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by you

August 23, 2008

Dear AKK

There is no confusion whatsoever in my mind when I said that through Astrology we can achieve Unity in diversity. We are able to understand oneness of this universe through the science of astrology to that extent it is fine! the only problem is applying this knowledge 4 mundane and reducing it to fortune telling to the individual level only has brought disrespect to the science! The is always perfect however, the scientist can always go wrong!

Regarding PBP it is based on Prasna sastra of Kalidasa synthesysed by KP and PBP!P.B.PhanindarChartered Accountant99893 9919598662 21340--- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved wrote:

Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved Re: Fwd: "Vedic astrology"---the greatest fraud on the Vedas! Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 9:40 PM

Shri P. B. Phaninderji,Nmaskar!<astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! >It appears you are confusing astrology with astronomy/consmolog y/cosmogeny!<However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras etc.,>What is "Prasna Bhagha paddathi" which works without rashis and nakshatras etc.? I am hearing about it for the first time.Regards,AKK, Phanindar pb <pbphanindar@ ...> wrote:>> Dear AKK> Though I agree with u that we shouldn't use astrology for mumdane predictivwe purposes astrology knowledge helps us to know the UNITY

IN DIVERSITY if only u care to observe! I encourage u to continue ur DHARMA YUDDAM!? However, predictive astrology based on Prasna Bhagha paddathi would certainly give absolutely correct results in answering the specific question since it has nothing to do with Rashis, Nakshatras etc., This is just 4 ur info> With best wishes> > P.B.Phanindar> Chartered Accountant> 99893 99195> 98662 21340> > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@. ..> wrote:> > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@. ..>> Fwd: "Vedic astrology"-- -the greatest fraud on the Vedas!> > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:58 PM> > > > > > > --- In

HinduCalendar, "jyotirved" <jyotirved@ ..> > wrote:> > Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,> > Many thanks for your comments on my article/post "Vedic astrology"-the> greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by you

August 24, 2008

, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,

Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic astrology " -the

greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by you in

July

2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008!

I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge of " Vedic

astrologers "

about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why they call

themselves " Vedic astrologers " ! They base their claims of astrology

being

an " anga " of the Vedas because there is a " Vedanga " named " Vedanga

Jyotisha " ! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts!

" Vedanga Jyotisha " is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th century BCE

compiled

in Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of calculating mean

tithi and

nakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the four

cardinal

points besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months!

It does not mention anything even by mistake about any planets like

Budha,

Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, Vrisha etc.

Rashis!

Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology just

because there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even know ABC

of

their own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some

overseas " Vamadevas "

are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and the

Vedangas

themselves first and then enter into discussions on such topics---

lest they

put on public display their lack of knowledge of their own shastras

otherwise!

Here is a challenge to all the " Vedic astrologers " the world over:

pl.

quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga

Jyotisha or

the Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that matter,

the so

called Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, Vrisha etc.

Rashis

even by mistake!

We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta either prior

to the

Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika!

We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets either in

any of

the Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to the Surya

Sidhatna of Maya the mlechha!

Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis

in the

Mahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also

nakshatras times

without number!

Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic

astrology is

taking the Hindu community for a ride!

We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, Shani

etc.

planets in the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana-walas, all

the

puranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of Vernal

Equinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar Sankanti as the

Uttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year and so

on!

That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya Sidhanta

where

Makar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It

definitely

leads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis

had been

imported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then later

incorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu " sishyas of

Varahamihira " .

Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge for all the

Vedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world over! Let

them

quote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or Shastra that has

advised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on any plan!

On the

other hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that

any " nakshatra

soochi-brahman " must be treated as a chandala. That is exactly

contrary to

what Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita " Yavanas (like Maya

of the

Surya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are mlechhas

but

because they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis " .!

Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the sidhantas

and

karna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha to

Graha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong orbital

elements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred years

back,

i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, panchangas in

Bharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works i.e.

sidhantas

and karna-granthas! That means that even those panchangas were

absolutely

wrong! And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong panchangas

till a

few decades back in India! What is most surprising is that " Vedic

astrologers " are shouting from housetops that our ancestors right from

Varahamihira to " my grandpa " made correct predictions and that is why

Hindu

astrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other astrology

the

world over!

Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was actually

thus

based on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we claim

that our

" ancestors " made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU ASTROLOGY

(KNOWN AS

VEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS " THE ART (OR IS IT THE 'SCIENCE'?)

OF

MAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA "

Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that?

Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no astrologer has

till

date predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!) would

take

place where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that your

namesake

late P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even hinted

that

Shri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More than a

decade

back, the Congress I had been written off by the " greatest Vedic

astrologer

of the twentieth century " in his Astrological Magazine and had

advised Smti.

Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! The editor

of

BABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA government would

not last

beyond more than six months after taking over the reins and it is

learnt

that on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even started

making

preparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around September

2004!

They are, however, still waiting for that prediction to materialize

whereas

in the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's " is not keeping good health " ---

something

which no jyotishi had " foreseen " .

That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, does not

know even

his time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed that

he/she had

predicted that " Singh would be the king " .

That also reminds me that the " greatest Vedic astrologer of the

twentieth

century " had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture on January

3 of

the ensuing year on " Astrology as an aid to the diagnosis of heart

attacks "

but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of " Cardiac arrest " ---

to

delivering that " astrologically planned " lecture!

His " Notable Horoscopes " gives the most incorrect planetary

longitudes of

all the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has made correct

" assessments " /predictions of all the charts in that work! That is

why I say

" Vedic astrologers can make correct predictions only from incorrect

data " .

If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about themselves

correctly,

how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else properly?

What is most damaging for these " Vedic astrologers " is the fact that

in

spite of their claims that they have been practicing the so called

nirayana

astrology at least over the last seven thousand years, (right from

the Vedic

times!) they are still unable to decide as to which ayanamsha, if

any, is

the correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen

ayanamshas like

Lahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari, Chopra,

Surya

Sidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even " zero " ayanamsha going around---each

claiming to give the maximum correct results! What they fail to

understand

that if any ayanamsha is correct, all the rest are incorrect! All of

them

can never be correct, though all of them can simultaneously be wrong!

These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that astrological

rashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their

imagination since

the Rashis have no existence actually/astronomically and that is why

we find

hundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat twelve

equal

segments/compartments/divisions astronomically and that is why

whether it is

JPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give planetary

longitudes

in terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical works but

just the

longitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees!

It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were taken as

rashis

(astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what was

imported into

India! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana rashis do

not

exist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy or

confusion

about sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist at all! It is thus a

confusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West!

The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike the fake

Vamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus pocus and

they

did not need any astrological Rashis thus! The Vedic seers named the

Vedic

months just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons and to

four

cardinal points----i.e. the two Equinoxes and two Solstices! It is a

fallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so called

Sayana

or the so called nirayana and that is why we are all celebrating our

festivals and muhurtas on wrong days!

The most glaring example of the " benefits of 'Vedic astrology " is

that you,

the head-cum-founder-cum-owner of the group of " Vedic-astrology "

()

will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only because you are a

" Vedic astrologer " whereas actually, as per all the shastras by which

you

and your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on July 24!

Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating Pitra-

Amavasya on

the day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period which is

actually

suitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages during

actual

pitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will continue

to

take place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologers-and thereby the

whole

of Hindu community---only because you believe in Mesha etc. Rashis---

whether

the so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire that the

rashi

based hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known as " Vedic

astrology " !

When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in " Vedic-astrology

() "

forum, you just summarily banned me from that group on the

recommendation of

some Western " Vedic astrologer " who was finding it difficult to

market his

trinkets through your forum after reading my arguments!

However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join

HinduCalendar

forum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu community is

being

taken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the festivals on

wrong days

by " Vedic astrologers " just to make a fast buck or gain

some " reputation " .

You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum without

any

restrictions since the posts to that forum are not moderated at all!

I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some people,

including

you, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what intrigues me is your

silence and

the silence of other scholars about the various dates of birth of

Bhagwan

Rama according to " Vedic astrologers " ! Tfshey say He incarnated

anywhere

between 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is supposed to be

hundreds of thousands of years old! Even a " his holiness of the art

of

something " has " confirmed " (sic!) that the date of birth of Bhagwan

Ram

was/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared by an

Income Tax

Commissioner for that date!

Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing stock of the

entire

Hindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki Ramayana, on

the basis

of which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on January 14,

5114 BCE

as per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000 years?

These

jyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well!

In any case, predictive astrologers are requested that if predictive

gimmicks are a necessary evil for them and if they cannot survive

without

them just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, these

jyotishis must

at least leave the Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke their

filthy

nose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals and

muhurtas! Let

them go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or Maloo

will be

the PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas---but let

them just

step out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a

premonition that

they will not do so because whenever any seminar or conference is held

regarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably always

attended

by and presided over by " Vedic astrologers " with the result that we

are

always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals as advised

by

Lahiri-walas instead of the shastras!

It thus goes without saying that I will have to continue my " Dharma-

yudha "

against " Vedic astrology " for streamlining the Hindu calendar---

because the

real Vedic calendar and predictive gimmicks cannot exist side by side

in the

real Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite of the

fact that

I have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I know " yato

dharmas tato jayah " !

With regards,

AKK

--- End forwarded message ---

August 25, 2008

vedic astrology , " jyotishi2001 "

<jyotishi2001 wrote:

>

> , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

>

> Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,

>

> Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic astrology " -the

> greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by you in

> July

> 2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008!

>

> I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge of " Vedic

> astrologers "

> about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why they call

> themselves " Vedic astrologers " ! They base their claims of astrology

> being

> an " anga " of the Vedas because there is a " Vedanga " named " Vedanga

> Jyotisha " ! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts!

>

> " Vedanga Jyotisha " is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th century BCE

> compiled

> in Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of calculating mean

> tithi and

> nakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the four

> cardinal

> points besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months!

>

> It does not mention anything even by mistake about any planets like

> Budha,

> Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, Vrisha etc.

> Rashis!

>

> Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology just

> because there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even know ABC

> of

> their own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some

> overseas " Vamadevas "

> are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and the

> Vedangas

> themselves first and then enter into discussions on such topics---

> lest they

> put on public display their lack of knowledge of their own shastras

> otherwise!

>

> Here is a challenge to all the " Vedic astrologers " the world over:

> pl.

> quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga

> Jyotisha or

> the Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that matter,

> the so

> called Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, Vrisha etc.

> Rashis

> even by mistake!

>

> We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta either prior

> to the

> Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika!

>

> We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets either in

> any of

> the Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to the Surya

> Sidhatna of Maya the mlechha!

>

> Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis

> in the

> Mahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also

> nakshatras times

> without number!

>

> Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic

> astrology is

> taking the Hindu community for a ride!

>

> We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, Shani

> etc.

> planets in the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana-walas, all

> the

> puranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of Vernal

> Equinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar Sankanti as the

> Uttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year and so

> on!

> That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya Sidhanta

> where

> Makar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It

> definitely

> leads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis

> had been

> imported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then later

> incorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu " sishyas of

> Varahamihira " .

>

> Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge for all the

> Vedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world over! Let

> them

> quote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or Shastra that has

> advised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on any plan!

> On the

> other hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that

> any " nakshatra

> soochi-brahman " must be treated as a chandala. That is exactly

> contrary to

> what Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita " Yavanas (like Maya

> of the

> Surya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are mlechhas

> but

> because they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis " .!

>

> Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the sidhantas

> and

> karna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha to

> Graha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong orbital

> elements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred years

> back,

> i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, panchangas in

> Bharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works i.e.

> sidhantas

> and karna-granthas! That means that even those panchangas were

> absolutely

> wrong! And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong panchangas

> till a

> few decades back in India! What is most surprising is that " Vedic

> astrologers " are shouting from housetops that our ancestors right from

> Varahamihira to " my grandpa " made correct predictions and that is why

> Hindu

> astrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other astrology

> the

> world over!

>

> Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was actually

> thus

> based on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we claim

> that our

> " ancestors " made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU ASTROLOGY

> (KNOWN AS

> VEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS " THE ART (OR IS IT THE 'SCIENCE'?)

> OF

> MAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA "

>

> Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that?

>

> Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no astrologer has

> till

> date predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!) would

> take

> place where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that your

> namesake

> late P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even hinted

> that

> Shri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More than a

> decade

> back, the Congress I had been written off by the " greatest Vedic

> astrologer

> of the twentieth century " in his Astrological Magazine and had

> advised Smti.

> Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! The editor

> of

> BABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA government would

> not last

> beyond more than six months after taking over the reins and it is

> learnt

> that on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even started

> making

> preparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around September

> 2004!

> They are, however, still waiting for that prediction to materialize

> whereas

> in the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's " is not keeping good health " ---

> something

> which no jyotishi had " foreseen " .

>

> That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, does not

> know even

> his time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed that

> he/she had

> predicted that " Singh would be the king " .

>

> That also reminds me that the " greatest Vedic astrologer of the

> twentieth

> century " had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture on January

> 3 of

> the ensuing year on " Astrology as an aid to the diagnosis of heart

> attacks "

> but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of " Cardiac arrest " ---

> to

> delivering that " astrologically planned " lecture!

>

> His " Notable Horoscopes " gives the most incorrect planetary

> longitudes of

> all the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has made correct

> " assessments " /predictions of all the charts in that work! That is

> why I say

> " Vedic astrologers can make correct predictions only from incorrect

> data " .

>

> If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about themselves

> correctly,

> how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else properly?

>

> What is most damaging for these " Vedic astrologers " is the fact that

> in

> spite of their claims that they have been practicing the so called

> nirayana

> astrology at least over the last seven thousand years, (right from

> the Vedic

> times!) they are still unable to decide as to which ayanamsha, if

> any, is

> the correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen

> ayanamshas like

> Lahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari, Chopra,

> Surya

> Sidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even " zero " ayanamsha going around---each

> claiming to give the maximum correct results! What they fail to

> understand

> that if any ayanamsha is correct, all the rest are incorrect! All of

> them

> can never be correct, though all of them can simultaneously be wrong!

>

> These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that astrological

> rashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their

> imagination since

> the Rashis have no existence actually/astronomically and that is why

> we find

> hundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat twelve

> equal

> segments/compartments/divisions astronomically and that is why

> whether it is

> JPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give planetary

> longitudes

> in terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical works but

> just the

> longitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees!

>

> It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were taken as

> rashis

> (astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what was

> imported into

> India! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana rashis do

> not

> exist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy or

> confusion

> about sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist at all! It is thus a

> confusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West!

>

> The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike the fake

> Vamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus pocus and

> they

> did not need any astrological Rashis thus! The Vedic seers named the

> Vedic

> months just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons and to

> four

> cardinal points----i.e. the two Equinoxes and two Solstices! It is a

> fallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so called

> Sayana

> or the so called nirayana and that is why we are all celebrating our

> festivals and muhurtas on wrong days!

>

> The most glaring example of the " benefits of 'Vedic astrology " is

> that you,

> the head-cum-founder-cum-owner of the group of " Vedic-astrology "

> ()

> will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only because you are a

> " Vedic astrologer " whereas actually, as per all the shastras by which

> you

> and your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on July 24!

> Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating Pitra-

> Amavasya on

> the day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period which is

> actually

> suitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages during

> actual

> pitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will continue

> to

> take place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologers-and thereby the

> whole

> of Hindu community---only because you believe in Mesha etc. Rashis---

> whether

> the so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire that the

> rashi

> based hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known as " Vedic

> astrology " !

>

> When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in " Vedic-astrology

> () "

> forum, you just summarily banned me from that group on the

> recommendation of

> some Western " Vedic astrologer " who was finding it difficult to

> market his

> trinkets through your forum after reading my arguments!

>

> However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join

>

> HinduCalendar

>

> forum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu community is

> being

> taken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the festivals on

> wrong days

> by " Vedic astrologers " just to make a fast buck or gain

> some " reputation " .

> You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum without

> any

> restrictions since the posts to that forum are not moderated at all!

>

> I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some people,

> including

> you, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what intrigues me is your

> silence and

> the silence of other scholars about the various dates of birth of

> Bhagwan

> Rama according to " Vedic astrologers " ! Tfshey say He incarnated

> anywhere

> between 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is supposed to be

> hundreds of thousands of years old! Even a " his holiness of the art

> of

> something " has " confirmed " (sic!) that the date of birth of Bhagwan

> Ram

> was/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared by an

> Income Tax

> Commissioner for that date!

>

> Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing stock of the

> entire

> Hindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki Ramayana, on

> the basis

> of which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on January 14,

> 5114 BCE

> as per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000 years?

> These

> jyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well!

>

> In any case, predictive astrologers are requested that if predictive

> gimmicks are a necessary evil for them and if they cannot survive

> without

> them just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, these

> jyotishis must

> at least leave the Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke their

> filthy

> nose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals and

> muhurtas! Let

> them go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or Maloo

> will be

> the PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas---but let

> them just

> step out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a

> premonition that

> they will not do so because whenever any seminar or conference is held

> regarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably always

> attended

> by and presided over by " Vedic astrologers " with the result that we

> are

> always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals as advised

> by

> Lahiri-walas instead of the shastras!

>

> It thus goes without saying that I will have to continue my " Dharma-

> yudha "

> against " Vedic astrology " for streamlining the Hindu calendar---

> because the

> real Vedic calendar and predictive gimmicks cannot exist side by side

> in the

> real Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite of the

> fact that

> I have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I know " yato

> dharmas tato jayah " !

>

> With regards,

>

> AKK

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

August 26, 2008

dear learned

plz go thro

http://www.adeum.com/EN/offers/books/nonfiction/000006640.html

the pathfinder

vedic astrology , " jyotishi2001 "

<jyotishi2001 wrote:

>

> , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

>

> Namaste Shri Narasimha P. V. R. Rao-ji,

>

> Many thanks for your comments on my article/post " Vedic astrology " -

the

> greatest fraud on the Vedas--- in IndiaDivine forum, posted by you

in

> July

> 2005, but which I saw just today, i.e. August 22, 2008!

>

> I am sorry to say that it appears that the knowledge of " Vedic

> astrologers "

> about the Vedic lore is very very poor and maybe that is why they

call

> themselves " Vedic astrologers " ! They base their claims of

astrology

> being

> an " anga " of the Vedas because there is a " Vedanga " named " Vedanga

> Jyotisha " ! Let me tell them some hard and unpleasant facts!

>

> " Vedanga Jyotisha " is a work by Acharya Lagadha of 14th century

BCE

> compiled

> in Kashmir! It tells us just the methodology of calculating mean

> tithi and

> nakshatra etc. apart from Uttarayana, Dakshinaya viz. the four

> cardinal

> points besides Tapah/Magha etc. twelve Vedic months!

>

> It does not mention anything even by mistake about any planets

like

> Budha,

> Mangal, Shani etc. nor does it say anything about Mesha, Vrisha

etc.

> Rashis!

>

> Obviously, those who call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology

just

> because there is a work named Vedanga Jyotisha, do not even know

ABC

> of

> their own Vedic lore! They are just going by what some

> overseas " Vamadevas "

> are telling them! They must therefore study the Vedas and the

> Vedangas

> themselves first and then enter into discussions on such topics---

> lest they

> put on public display their lack of knowledge of their own shastras

> otherwise!

>

> Here is a challenge to all the " Vedic astrologers " the world

over:

> pl.

> quote even a single mantra from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga

> Jyotisha or

> the Yajur Jyotisha or even the Atharva Jyotisha or for that

matter,

> the so

> called Atharva Veda Parishishta, which mentions Mesha, Vrisha etc.

> Rashis

> even by mistake!

>

> We do not find any mention of any Rashis in any sidhanta either

prior

> to the

> Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of the Panchasidhantika!

>

> We do not find any mention of Mangal and Shani etc. planets either

in

> any of

> the Vedas, nor the Vedangas nor even any sidhanta prior to the

Surya

> Sidhatna of Maya the mlechha!

>

> Surprisingly, we do not find any mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc.

Rashis

> in the

> Mahabharata either though it has mentioned planets and also

> nakshatras times

> without number!

>

> Obviously, therefore, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic

> astrology is

> taking the Hindu community for a ride!

>

> We do find mention of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, Shani

> etc.

> planets in the Puranas but much to the chagrin of nirayana-walas,

all

> the

> puranas talk of a Mesha Sankranti which is also the day of Vernal

> Equinox---when the day is equal to night---and Makar Sankanti as

the

> Uttarayana i.e. Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year and

so

> on!

> That is exactly what Maya the mlechha had done in his Surya

Sidhanta

> where

> Makar Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana and so on! It

> definitely

> leads to the irrefutable conclusion that Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis

> had been

> imported from the Greeks via Maya's Surya Sidhanta and then later

> incorporated in the Puranas etc. by some Hindu " sishyas of

> Varahamihira " .

>

> Talking of the Puranas, however, here is another challenge for all

the

> Vedic, non-Vedic and even anti-Vedic jyotishis the world over!

Let

> them

> quote even a single shloka from any Purana, Smriti or Shastra that

has

> advised us to consult some soothsayer before embarking on any

plan!

> On the

> other hand, in the Mahabharata, Bhishma has advised that

> any " nakshatra

> soochi-brahman " must be treated as a chandala. That is exactly

> contrary to

> what Varahamihira has said in his Brihat Samhita " Yavanas (like

Maya

> of the

> Surya Sidhanta and Sphujidwaja of Yavana Jatakam etc.!) are

mlechhas

> but

> because they know astrology, they are treated as Rishis " .!

>

> Every jyotishi knows, or is supposed to know, that all the

sidhantas

> and

> karna granthas right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha to

> Graha-Laghava of Ganesha Daivajnya have fundamentally wrong orbital

> elements! And every jyotishi also knows that till a hundred years

> back,

> i.e. till the advent of modern astronomy into India, panchangas in

> Bharatavarsha were calculated from those very useless works i.e.

> sidhantas

> and karna-granthas! That means that even those panchangas were

> absolutely

> wrong! And horoscopes were prepared from those very wrong

panchangas

> till a

> few decades back in India! What is most surprising is that " Vedic

> astrologers " are shouting from housetops that our ancestors right

from

> Varahamihira to " my grandpa " made correct predictions and that is

why

> Hindu

> astrology was/is more accurate and respected than any other

astrology

> the

> world over!

>

> Hindu astrology, which was actually Greek astrology, is/was

actually

> thus

> based on the most inaccurate astronomical data and still we claim

> that our

> " ancestors " made correct predictions! Obviously, HINDU ASTROLOGY

> (KNOWN AS

> VEDIC ASTROLOGY NOW-A-DAYS) MEANS " THE ART (OR IS IT

THE 'SCIENCE'?)

> OF

> MAKING CORRECT PREDICTIONS FROM INCORRECT DATA "

>

> Can there be any claim more ludicrous than that?

>

> Ironically, however, to the best of my knowledge, no astrologer

has

> till

> date predicted as to which earthquake or disaster (tsunami!) would

> take

> place where and when! No astrologer had ever predicted that your

> namesake

> late P V Narasimha Rao would be the PM! No jyotishi had even

hinted

> that

> Shri Deve Gowda or Mr. I. K. Gujral would be the PM! More than a

> decade

> back, the Congress I had been written off by the " greatest Vedic

> astrologer

> of the twentieth century " in his Astrological Magazine and had

> advised Smti.

> Sonia Gandhi to leave the country lock, stock and barrel! The

editor

> of

> BABAji magazine had predicted that the present UPA government

would

> not last

> beyond more than six months after taking over the reins and it is

> learnt

> that on the basis of that prediction the BJP MPS had even started

> making

> preparations for fresh coronation of Shri Vajapayee around

September

> 2004!

> They are, however, still waiting for that prediction to

materialize

> whereas

> in the meantime, Shri Vajapayee's " is not keeping good health " ---

> something

> which no jyotishi had " foreseen " .

>

> That reminds me that the present PM, Dr. Manmohan Singh, does not

> know even

> his time of birth---and mercifully no jyotishi has claimed that

> he/she had

> predicted that " Singh would be the king " .

>

> That also reminds me that the " greatest Vedic astrologer of the

> twentieth

> century " had 'planned astrologically' to deliver a lecture on

January

> 3 of

> the ensuing year on " Astrology as an aid to the diagnosis of heart

> attacks "

> but he died fifteen days prior-- and that also of " Cardiac arrest " -

--

> to

> delivering that " astrologically planned " lecture!

>

> His " Notable Horoscopes " gives the most incorrect planetary

> longitudes of

> all the horoscopes including that of his own---yet he has made

correct

> " assessments " /predictions of all the charts in that work! That is

> why I say

> " Vedic astrologers can make correct predictions only from

incorrect

> data " .

>

> If the jyotishis cannot foresee anything even about themselves

> correctly,

> how on earth can they foresee and then guide someone else

properly?

>

> What is most damaging for these " Vedic astrologers " is the fact

that

> in

> spite of their claims that they have been practicing the so called

> nirayana

> astrology at least over the last seven thousand years, (right from

> the Vedic

> times!) they are still unable to decide as to which ayanamsha, if

> any, is

> the correct one! As on date, there are at lest half a dozen

> ayanamshas like

> Lahiri, Ramana, Yukteswhar, Kharegat, Fagan, Chandra Hari, Chopra,

> Surya

> Sidhanta, Graha-Laghava and even " zero " ayanamsha going around---

each

> claiming to give the maximum correct results! What they fail to

> understand

> that if any ayanamsha is correct, all the rest are incorrect! All

of

> them

> can never be correct, though all of them can simultaneously be

wrong!

>

> These jyotishis are even unaware of the fact that astrological

> rashis---whether sayana or nirayana--- exist only in their

> imagination since

> the Rashis have no existence actually/astronomically and that is

why

> we find

> hundreds of ayanamshas! Zodiac cannot be divided into neat

twelve

> equal

> segments/compartments/divisions astronomically and that is why

> whether it is

> JPL or NASA or Greenwich Observatory, they do not give planetary

> longitudes

> in terms of Aries etc. signs in any of their astronomical works

but

> just the

> longitudes from 0 to 359.999999 degrees!

>

> It is actually Aries, Taurus etc. constellations that were taken

as

> rashis

> (astrological signs) by Greek astrologers and that is what was

> imported into

> India! You can rest assured that even the so called sayana rashis

do

> not

> exist astronomically! Thus there is absolutely no dichotomy or

> confusion

> about sayana and nirayana since no rashis exist at all! It is

thus a

> confusion created by jyotishsis of the East and the West!

>

> The real Vedic Rishis including the real Vamadevas, unlike the

fake

> Vamadevas of today, never believed in any predictive hocus pocus

and

> they

> did not need any astrological Rashis thus! The Vedic seers named

the

> Vedic

> months just Madhu, Madhava etc. and related them to seasons and to

> four

> cardinal points----i.e. the two Equinoxes and two Solstices! It

is a

> fallacy to align the Vedic months to Rashis---whether the so

called

> Sayana

> or the so called nirayana and that is why we are all celebrating

our

> festivals and muhurtas on wrong days!

>

> The most glaring example of the " benefits of 'Vedic astrology " is

> that you,

> the head-cum-founder-cum-owner of the group of " Vedic-astrology "

> ()

> will be celebrating Janmashtami on August 23/24 only because you

are a

> " Vedic astrologer " whereas actually, as per all the shastras by

which

> you

> and your clan of jyotishis swear, it was to be celebrated on July

24!

> Similarly, you and the rest of India will be celebrating Pitra-

> Amavasya on

> the day of actual Dipavali and pitrapaksha during a period which

is

> actually

> suitable for marriages! You will be celebrating marriages during

> actual

> pitra-paksha! All such travesties are taking place and will

continue

> to

> take place with you and your fellow Vedic-astrologers-and thereby

the

> whole

> of Hindu community---only because you believe in Mesha etc. Rashis-

--

> whether

> the so called Sayana or so called nirayana---and then desire that

the

> rashi

> based hocus pocus of predictive gimmicks must be known as " Vedic

> astrology " !

>

> When I pointed out all the anachronisms to you in " Vedic-astrology

> () "

> forum, you just summarily banned me from that group on the

> recommendation of

> some Western " Vedic astrologer " who was finding it difficult to

> market his

> trinkets through your forum after reading my arguments!

>

> However, I am sending you an invitation separately to join

>

> HinduCalendar

>

> forum to see for yourself as to how the entire Hindu community is

> being

> taken for a ride and compelled to celebrate all the festivals on

> wrong days

> by " Vedic astrologers " just to make a fast buck or gain

> some " reputation " .

> You can post your views, whatever they maybe, on that forum

without

> any

> restrictions since the posts to that forum are not moderated at

all!

>

> I really and sincerely appreciate the efforts of some people,

> including

> you, about saving Rama-Setu etc. but what intrigues me is your

> silence and

> the silence of other scholars about the various dates of birth of

> Bhagwan

> Rama according to " Vedic astrologers " ! Tfshey say He incarnated

> anywhere

> between 153 BCE and 9000 BCE, whereas the Rama-Setu is supposed to

be

> hundreds of thousands of years old! Even a " his holiness of the

art

> of

> something " has " confirmed " (sic!) that the date of birth of

Bhagwan

> Ram

> was/is January 14, 5114 BCE, as His horoscope was prepared by an

> Income Tax

> Commissioner for that date!

>

> Don't you think jyotishis are actually making a laughing stock of

the

> entire

> Hindu community thus especially when the same Valmiki Ramayana, on

> the basis

> of which Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have incarnated on January 14,

> 5114 BCE

> as per the jyotishis, tells us that Shri Ram ruled for 11000

years?

> These

> jyotishis cannot have the cake and eat it as well!

>

> In any case, predictive astrologers are requested that if

predictive

> gimmicks are a necessary evil for them and if they cannot survive

> without

> them just as drug addicts cannot survive without drugs, these

> jyotishis must

> at least leave the Hindu calendar alone---They must not poke their

> filthy

> nose into the affairs of deciding the fasts and festivals and

> muhurtas! Let

> them go on making fanciful forecasts as to whether Kaloo or Maloo

> will be

> the PM on the basis of any of the zillions of ayanamshas---but let

> them just

> step out of preparing panchangas! Unfortunately, I have a

> premonition that

> they will not do so because whenever any seminar or conference is

held

> regarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, it is invariably always

> attended

> by and presided over by " Vedic astrologers " with the result that

we

> are

> always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating festivals as

advised

> by

> Lahiri-walas instead of the shastras!

>

> It thus goes without saying that I will have to continue

my " Dharma-

> yudha "

> against " Vedic astrology " for streamlining the Hindu calendar---

> because the

> real Vedic calendar and predictive gimmicks cannot exist side by

side

> in the

> real Vedic culture! Andy I am sure of my victory, in spite of the

> fact that

> I have to face billions upon billions of jyotishis since I

know " yato

> dharmas tato jayah " !

>

> With regards,

>

> AKK

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

October 1, 2008

WAVES-Vedic , " jyotirved " <jyotirved wrote:

Shri Shaas Ruzicka,

Namaskar!

Thanks for the response.

You have said

<I think, Jyotish is sufficiently often mentioned in the most ancient

Vedic

scriptures - even in the Upanishads, whose themes are of completely

spiritual nature.>

" I think " ---Well, your thinking vis-à-vis the actual facts does not matter

much! On the other hand, that (thinking!) itself shows as to how

unsure you

are about " jyotish being sufficiently mentioned " in " ancient Vedic

scriptures " actually!

Pl. ponder (think!) on the topic of the discussion which is " Vedic

astrology " --the greatest fraud on the Vedas! And by " Vedic

astrology " , the

fad and fraud of predictive gimmicks is meant, obviously!

Here is a challenge to you and to all the jyotishis, whether " Vedic " or

" Non-Vedic " or even " anti-Vedic " ---just quote even a single mantra

from any

of the Vedas, or Upanishadas or Brahmanas etc. etc. that has touched the

topic about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis even with a barge pole!

Yet

another challenge: Just quote any mantra from any of these very Vedic

scriptures that even obliquely refers to Mangal, Shani etc. etc. planets!

We have a lot of imported Vamadevas these days masquerading as " Vedic

astrologers " . But when it comes to quoting even a single mantra which

talks

of predictive gimmicks in the Vedas, all they resort to is bluff and

prevarication! There is a lot of correspondence available on this

(Waves-Vedic) forum about the same, and it is no use to repeat those posts

again.

You have said

< Jyotish belongs to the 6 Darshanas, and as such it is an integral

part of

the Vedic Literature>.

Here also your " thinking " is wrong! Jyotish is not one of the six

darshanas

(sic!) but it is actually one of the six angas (limbs) of the Vedas!

Yes, Jyotish is a Vedanga—a limb of the Vedas----but it is not only

imported

" Vamadevas " even our local " Varahamihiras " and " Parasharas " who have put

wool into their ears about the Jyotisha that the Vedas are talking about!

These bluff-masters claim that since there is a work named Vedanga

Jyotisha,

it means that Jyotisha is an " anga " -- a limb---of the Vedas! But

they are

actually putting their ignorance on public display by such statements

since

" Vedanga Jyotisha " is actually a name of the work by Acharya Lagadha of

around 14th century BCE, prepared in the then Kashmir of now J & K

state. It

is also known as Rik-Jyotisham and Yajur Jyotisham. It does not talk of

predictive gimmicks but just gives the methodology of calculating mean

tithi, nakshatra and the six seasons apart from the twelve solar and lunar

months. Even in that work, there are no Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc.

Rashis

nor any indication of Mangal and Shani etc. planets!

But even then we are told that predictive gimmicks are a part of the

Vedas!

Thus whenever there is any mention of the word " jyotisha " in any of the

Upanishadas, it is in the sense of astronomy and calculating the proper

tithi, nakshatra etc. for Vedic rituals---and not in the sense of checking

the horoscope of every Tom, Dick and Harry!

You have said

< before I take the " pain " to give you some exact quotes from Vedic

Literature, one question: Have you, actually, read Mahabharata and

Ramayana?>

You are talking about the Mahabharata and the Ramayana like a prize catch!

Yes, there is mention of planets vis-à-vis nakshatras in the Mbh times

without number! But we must not forget that the Gita is a part of the

same

Mahabharata! When Arjuna asked Krishna, " I do not know who will win the

war--whether Kauravas or Pandavas.... " , Bhagwan Krishna did not advise him

to consult some soothsayer! Nor did He tell Arjuna the outcome of the war

beforehand, in spite of Lord Krishna being really Omniscient, Omnipresent

and Omnipotent Master of Universes! On the other hand, He just advised

Arjuna " If you get killed on the battlefield, you will go to heavens

and if

you win the war, you will be master of the entire globe---as such, just do

your duty and forget about the results " .

I do not know whether you have really read either of the Itihasas or

not,

but what is evident is that you have not grasped the spirit of either

of the

works even if you have read them! Neither Itihasa believes that we

must be

on the mercy of soothsayers! On the other hand, what they demonstrate

with

practical examples is that even if someone does have the capability of

deciphering the future events before-hand, he/she should not disclose

them!

Let me give you another example from the same Itihasas that you are

talking

about. When the king Dashratha decided to anoint Bhagwan Rama as the

crown-prince, he asked his kulaguru, Bhagwan Vasishtha, for a proper

muhurta

for that function. And Maharshi Vasishtha advised that just the next day

was a proper muhurta for that function! We cannot overlook the fact that

Vasishtha Muni is the son of Brahmaji and thus an omniscient Rishi, who

could foresee any future event like the palm of his hand! It is thus

clear

that Vasishtha Rishi was aware as to what a tragedy would befall King

Dasharatha by trying to anoint Bhagwan Ram as heir-apparent. But he just

kept quiet!

He did not advise Dashratha either to have his janmapatri checked through

some soothsayer before embarking on any such plans! What does that mean?

There was no such curse as " Vedic astrology " around then!

Here is another challenge to you and to all the jyotishis---every type of

them! Can you quote even a single shloka from the Mbh. or the Ramayana or

any of the Puranas or any of shastras which has advised to start any

enterprise after consulting some soothsayer? NO. I can assure you that

there is no such sholka. Fatalism is actually against the ethos of the

Vedas and other scriptures---in fact it is against the basic tenet of

Vedic

culture! All our shastras advise us " uttishthata jagrata prapya varan

nibodhata... " i.e. " Awake, arise and know IT from the ones who know

THAT " .

NO shastra has advised us that we should consult some soothsayer before

embarking even on the journey of " realizing that Eternal Truth " . But our

imported " Vamadevas " and local " Parasharas " and " Varahamihiras " are just

advising us quite contrary to the same---they want us to be at their mercy

and beck and call. And they call themselves " Vedic astrologers " .

You have said further

< and Mr Avtar's opinions are utterly unqualified full of half truths and

wrong assumptions.>

My dear " highly qualified " jyotishisji! Do you know that prior to the

advent of Maya the mlechha's Surya Sidhanta of around 3rd/4th century

BCE--

as quoted in the Panchasidhantika--- we did not have any indigenous

astronomical work for calculating planetary positions vis-à-vis Mesha,

Vrisha etc. Rashis? And that astronomical work is the most monstrous one

with fundamental arguments which are anything but correct! And no wonder,

the idol of today's " Vedic astrologers " viz. Varahamihira could make

correct

predictions only from such a monstrous work as it was " spashatataro

savitrah " —(The Surya Sidhanta is the most accurate astronomical

work " —sic!)

according to him!

And that means, by implication, that till the advent of modern astronomy

into India, which was not more than a century back, as all the Hindu

panchangas circumnavigated around that very Surya Sidhanta of Maya the

mlechha, the predictions by " Hindu jyotishis " could never be correct over

the last couple of thousand years!

And it is the same Surya Sidhanta in disguise that is being flaunted

by way

of Lahiri Ayanamsha now a days! That means that even today's

predictions by

Hindu jyotishis can never be correct even if they call themselves " Vedic

astrologers " .

NO wonder it is because of that very " Vedic astrology " and the same " Vedic

astrologers " that we are celebrating all our festivals and muhurtas on

wrong

days like Dipavali on October 28 instead of Sepember 28 and so on.

I wonder if any of the " imported Vamadevas " would celebrate Christmas on

any other day than December 25, but they want us to celebrate

Uttarayana—the

Winter Solstice---on January 15 instead of December 21/22, the

shortest day

of the year---just because they have an axe to grind---to make the entire

Hindu community subservient to them and that they can achieve only if they

make the Hindus kill their own dharma themselves! And there is no better

(or even worse!) way of killing ones dharma than by celebrating all the

festivals and muhurtas on wrong days!

We certainly do not need enemies to ruin us since we have our " friendly

Vedic astrologers " --- billions and trillions of them--- around to do so!

With regards,

A K Kaul

WAVES-Vedic , Shaas Ruzicka <amritasyaputra@>

wrote:

>

> Dear Mr. Sabhlok,

>

> before I take the " pain " to give you some exact quotes from Vedic

Literature, one question: Have you, actually, read Mahabharata and

Ramayana?

>

> Your and Mr Avtar's opinions are utterly unqualified full of half

truths

and wrong assumptions. I think, Jyotish is sufficiently often mentioned in

the most ancient Vedic scriptures - even in the Upanishads, whose

themes are

of completely spiritual nature.

>

> Jyotish belongs to the 6 Darshanas, and as such it is an integral part

of the Vedic Literature.

>

> WIth best regards

>

> Shaas

>

> Prem Sabhlok <psabhlok@> schrieb:

> I do not know why it is called Vedic Astrology. May be I have

missed that mantra/hymn/Rik in Vedas which refers to Astrology (Jyotish

Vidya). Mantras relating to Astronomy, Algebra, physical sciences, Medical

sciences etc are there but about Astrology I could not find any

reference in

Vedas. In Ramayana and Mahabharta which are Vedas retold, also there is no

reference to Astrology. Can any Vedic scholar throw some light on this

aspect? Some learned people have found that astrology started in

Greece as a

hobby but not as a science. To my understanding Vedas do not have even the

concept of auspicious/inauspicious time/period.

> With kind regards,

> P.K.Sabhlok

>

> waves-vedic

> jyotirved@

> Sat, 27 Sep 2008 08:01:27 +0000

> [WAVES-Vedic] Fwd: Re: " Vedic astrology " - the greatest

fraud on

the Vedas! (reposted)

>

> HinduCalendar , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

>

> Shri Ravilochananji,

> Namaskar!

>

> <I concur with your views. NOwhere is it said in our epics or

> Puranas that the Kings or Princes consulted astrologers before

> marriage. Neither did Lord Ram consult an astrologer before taking

> part in the bow contest nor did Lord Krishna went in search of

> astrologers before departing to carry away Devi Rukmini.>

>

> The fad of kings consulting jyotishis was started through his Brihat

> Samhita by Varahamihira who was the greatest charlatan according to

> me since he could make " correct predictions from incorect data " viz.

> panchangas based on Maya the mlechha's Surya Sidhanta, the most

> monstrous astronomical work that could ever have been produced by

> anybody! No wonder, " Vedic astrologers " of today vie with one

> another for being called " Varahamihira " since they also can make

> correct predictions ONLY from incorrect data!

>

> Regarding " Patri Melapak " , what is most ironic is that no " jyotisha

> shastra " right from Sphujidwaja's yavana Jatakam to the most

> notorious fake work viz. Brihat Parashari has touched this topic

> even with a barge pole, but then today's " Vedic jyotishis " say that

> it was practised by Vedic seers! My personal view is that if the

> seers had really indulged in such a non-sense (actually the most

> cunning!) fad, almost all of them would still have been looking for

> a spouse whose Patri would match with theirs with at least 28 gunas!

>

> <It is high time that we gave up the ancient Greek notion of

> astrology and get back to proper astronomy.>

>

> This " Vedic astrology " has had such a deleterious affect on the real

> Vedic culture that the words of the Gita are becoming most

> meaningful these days:

> " adharmam dharmam it ya manyate tamsa vrita

> sarvarthan vipareetanshchai, budhih saa partha tamasi "

> i.e.

> " an intellect that views adharma as dharma (and dharma as adharma)

> besides viewing all the things upside down, is the real Tamasic

> intellect " .

>

> I find that almost every Hindu is trying to defend " Vedic astrology "

> in spite of the fact that it has been made clear to them by now that

> it is because of that very fad that we are celebrating all our

> festivals and muhurtas on worng days, but their arguments are really

> tamasic---like " I do not know much about astronomy (and by

> implication it means that he/she knows everything about astrology

> though!) " is the stock reply of most of them.

>

> All the Hindus are now a days least bothered about celebrating Pitra-

> Amavasya on the day of actual Dipavali which is on September 28,

> 2008, but they do not want to hear even a single word against " Vedic

> astrology " ! They celebrated marriages in actual Pitrapaksha

> because " Vedic astrologes " had okayed those dates!

>

> What is surprising is that in spite of being well read, most of the

> Hindus have lost all sense of basic Primary school level geography!

> They have become oblivious of the fact that Uttarayana cannot take

> place on any other day than the shortest day of the year or

> Dakshinayana except on the longest day of the year! But they have

> put wool into their ears for such phenomena since " Vedic

> astrologers " want them to celebrate Uttarayana on January 15 and

> Dakshinayana on July 15 and so on!

>

> In short, most of the Hindu society appears to have become clones of

> Maya the mlechha just because of their fatal infatuation with " Vedic

> astrology " ! And that is the real Tamasic Vriti that I am talking

> about!

>

> However, since, AS IS EVIDENT FROM YOUR POST, Hindus are basically

> the offspring of real Vamadevas instead of " imported Vamadevas " ,

> sooner than later the genome of Vedic seers will revolt against this

> tyranny of " Vedic astrologers " and thereby prevent the Hindu

> culture from having an akalamrityu, INSPITE OF " VEDIC ASTROLOGERS " !

> With regards,

> Avtar

>

> HinduCalendar , " Ravilochanan "

> <ravilochan_tn@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shri Avtar

> >

> > Pranaam! I concur with your views. NOwhere is it said in our epics

> or

> > Puranas that the Kings or Princes consulted astrologers before

> > marriage. Neither did Lord Ram consult an astrologer before taking

> > part in the bow contest nor did Lord Krishna went in search of

> > astrologers before departing to carry away Devi Rukmini. This

> > practice of matching kundli has reached absurd proportions. Our

> > dharma speaks about doing our duty without concern for the fruits.

> > Doing what is right is the most important issue. Karma phal will

> > finally reach us. One's karmaphal will not suddenly turn into good

> > all of a sudden just because a kundli got matched. It doesn't make

> > any sense. The Gita does not speak about jyotish phal. It only

> speaks

> > about karma phal. My heart bleeds upon seeing some orthodox Hindus

> > who have nearly mastered the aspect of Karma Yoga but still visit

> the

> > astrologer with kundlis during marriage just because their parents

> > had (wrongly) taught them so. They believe it to be an integral

> part

> > of Vedic culture. It is high time that we gave up the ancient

> Greek

> > notion of astrology and get back to proper astronomy.

> >

> > humbly

> > Ravilochanan

> >

> > HinduCalendar , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Shri Arul Thilak ji,

> > > Namaskar!

> > >

> > > You have said

> > > < As to howÂ the lastÂ HinduÂ kingdom was lost in the 21st

> century,

> > > the following excerpts of Tarun Vijay's recent essayÂ are

> > revealing.>

> > >

> > > It is immaterial as to who says what! In a democracy, everybody

> is

> > > " authorized " to say anything about anybody or any event,

> especially

> > if

> > > the person concerned is a journalist! We have, however, to

> > ascertain

> > > facts for ourselves by sifting grain from the chaff and go by

> them!

> > >

> > > You have quoted me as saying

> > > <Our erstwhile Hindu neighbouring country is a glaring

> > > example of its " suicide " because of an extraordinary infatuation

> > > for " Vedic astrology " .>

> > > and there is enough of correspondence on this topic in this

> forum!

> > >

> > > To summarize the facts, one has just to recall the tragic event

> of

> > the

> > > erstwhile crown-prince shooting dead his parents---the then king

> and

> > > queen---and then himself, only because his parents would not

> allow

> > him

> > > to marry his sweet heart! And the parents did not allow that

> > marriage

> > > as the " Vedic astrologers " there had said that the horoscope of

> the

> > > crown-prince and his sweet heart did not match and it would bode

> ill

> > > for the king and the queen if that marriage was allowed!

> > > And by now it is a well established fact that " Vedic

> astrologers "

> > only

> > > predict the events upside down, if the data like the date and

> time

> > of

> > > birth etc. of the " native " are correct, since they can make

> correct

> > > predictions only from incorrect data! Thus instead of advising

> the

> > > then king and queen to solemnize the marriage of the crown

> prince

> > with

> > > his sweet heart---she was also from a royal family of India----as

> > > otherwise he would go mad, they just advised to the contrary!

> And

> > the

> > > results are there for everybody to see! It is worthwhile to put

> on

> > > record here that if it had been the earlier monarch, who was

> shot

> > dead

> > > by his own son, still ruling Nepal, the things would have been

> > > entirely different and would not have come to such a stage.

> > >

> > > Same was the case with BJP! If they had not advance the last

> > General

> > > Election by several months, the chances were that they would have

> > > gained a majority by planning their moves properly and would

> still

> > be

> > > ruling today! But they believed more in " Vedic astrology " than

> their

> > > own drum-beating of " India shining " . Even on the day the results

> of

> > > the last election were declared, all the channels and newspapers

> > were

> > > crying from housetops that as per all the jyotishis, A B Vajpayee

> > > would be the PM, irrespective of which party gained majority!

> > However,

> > > the BJP's faith in " Vedic astrology " ruined everything for them

> and

> > > poor A B Vajpayee, instead of being crowned the king again, has

> > become

> > > completely bedridden, a sad fact that no astrologer had foreseen!

> > >

> > > You have also said

> > > < It (Nepal) faithfully follows a Vikram Samvat calendar based

> on

> > the

> > > most scientific Hindu system of time and space.Â Â >

> > >

> > > On this topic also, there is a lot of correspondence with

> > > IndiaArchaeology forum etc. that is available in this forum as

> > well.

> > > Again, instead of going by who is saying what, pl. peruse that

> > > correspondence and then let me know as to whether there is any

> > > " scientific basis " of 58 BC being called as Vikrami era is! If

> at

> > all

> > > it has any scientific basis, it is based on the passage of the

> VE

> > from

> > > one Greek constellation Aries into another Greek constellation

> i.e.

> > > Pisces in around 66 BCE! And nobody knows why and by whom and

> when

> > it

> > > was named " Vikrami Era " .

> > >

> > > I have also made it clear literally hundreds of times that my

> > aversion

> > > towards " Vedic astrology " is because of the fact that it is

> > actually a

> > > fraud on the Vedas and also a drag on Hindu society, since it is

> > this

> > > very fad that is making us see adharma of celebrating all our

> > > festivals and muhurtas on wrong days as dharma! Same is the

> case

> > with

> > > the all out defense by some people of the farce known as " Vedic

> > > astrology " ---they are actually defending adharma in the name of

> > dharma!

> > > Hope the situation is clear now.

> > > Regards,

> > > AKK

> > >

> > > HinduCalendar , Arul T <arul_thilak@>

> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Â

> > > > 1.Â Â Sri Avtar-ji says as follows:

> > > > Â

> > > > QUOTE

> > > > Our erstwhile Hindu neighbouring country is a glaring

> > > > example of its " suicide " because of an extraordinary

> infatuation

> > > > for " Vedic astrology " . So is the example of the BJP which had

> > > > an " akalamrityu " by advanding the last election by several

> months

> > on

> > > > the advice of its " Minister of Astrology " !

> > > > UNQUOTE

> > > >

> > > > Â

> > > > As to howÂ the lastÂ HinduÂ kingdom was lost in the 21st

> century,

> > > the following excerpts of Tarun Vijay's recent essayÂ are

> > revealing.Â

> > > How, in particular, Hindu religious discourse was impoverished

> and

> > > limited to ritualism:

> > > > Â

> > > >

> > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-

> 3482408,prtpage-

> > 1.cms

> > > > Â

> > > >

> > > > THE RIGHT VIEW

> > > >

> > > > Learn Chinese to know Kathmandu

> > > > 14 Sep 2008, 1640 hrs IST, Tarun Vijay

> > > >

> > > > Â

> > > > QUOTE

> > > > ..... Younger Nepal turned the tide in favour of a change with

> a

> > > balance. Kingdom's Hindu status was meaningless as it failed to

> > > strengthen the democratic roots and provide food, water and

> > education

> > > to the rural poor. Pro-Monarchy people couldn't establish their

> > > credibility - they thrived on an anti-India note and kept

> religious

> > > affairs bound to the personal loyalty to the King which meant no

> > > spiritual insurgence could take shape and the religious discourse

> > > remained limited to ritualism. No strong nationalist spiritual

> > fervour

> > > was allowed as King felt threatened hence no tears were seen at

> the

> > > demise of its Hindu nation status and the abolition of

> > monarchy. ....

> > > > Â

> > > > When the rulers turn corrupt and abuse peoples' faith and

> trust,

> > > public unrest and angst gets expressed in different ways. Nepal

> saw

> > it

> > > happen in the form of a Maoism that prided to declare it's all

> the

> > > sources of inspiration and support to the neighbouring Communist

> > > China. .......

> > > > Â

> > > > Prachanda took oath as the first Prime Minister of this tiny

> > > Himalayan federal republic, once the only Hindu State on this

> > planet,

> > > in the name of the 'people of Nepal '.

> > > >

> > > > Earlier all the PMs had sworn in, invoking God's name. He

> chose to

> > > wear a western dress, three piece suite with a necktie. Earlier

> > > everyone had worn a Nepalese traditional dress called Daura

> Suruwal.

> > > He also became the first PM not to visit Pashupati Nath, as has

> been

> > > the tradition of all the Nepalese leaders and he chose to visit

> > China

> > > first, again a new precedence, although our PM Dr Manmohan Singh

> was

> > > the first head of the state to congratulate Prachanda and invite

> him

> > > to visit India within half-an-hour of his election to the post.

> > > > UNQUOTE

> > > > Â

> > > > The Nepali monarchyÂ also hadÂ a Rajaguru :

> > > > Â

> > > >

> http://www.hinduonnet.com/2002/06/27/stories/2002062703860100.htm

> > > > Jun 27, 2002

> > > > Â

> > > > Good news in 3 months: Kanchi Acharya

> > > > By Our Special Correspondent

> > > > Â

> > > >

> > > > NEW DELHI JUNE 26. The Kanchi Sankaracharya, Jayendra

> Saraswati,

> > who

> > > met the Prime Minister, Atal Behari Vajpayee, and the Vice-

> > President,

> > > Krishan Kant, today asserted that he would continue with his

> > > independent initiative to try and find a solution to the Ayodhya

> > > problem that would be agreeable to both the parties involved. He

> > > expected " good news'' within two or three months.

> > > > Â

> > > > During the day, the King of Nepal, Gyanendra, performed `pada

> > puja'

> > > at the feet of Adi Sankara at the Kamakshi temple, which is also

> the

> > > place where the Kanchi seer stays when he is here. The King was

> with

> > > the Queen, Komal Rajyalaxmi, and their daughter, Prerna

> Rajyalaxmi,

> > > and the `puja' was performed in the presence of the

> Sankaracharya

> > who

> > > is also the `rajguru' of Nepal. Earlier, he had clarified that

> his

> > > current visit to the capital was connected with King Gyanendra's

> > > desire to meet him.

> > > > Â

> > > > 2.Â Tarun Vijay's essay also mentions:

> > > > Â

> > > > QUOTE

> > > > It (Nepal) faithfully follows a Vikram Samvat calendar based

> on

> > the

> > > most scientific Hindu system of time and space.Â Â

> > > > UNQUOTE

> > > >

> > > > Â

> > > > --- On Thu, 25/9/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@>

> > > > [akandabaratam] Fwd: Re: " Vedic astrology " - the

> greatest

> > > fraud on the Vedas! (reposted)

> > > > akandabaratam

> > > > Thursday, 25 September, 2008, 12:39 AM

> > > >

> > > > hinducivilization, " Avtar Krishen

> Kaul "

> > > > <jyotirved@ ..> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Shri Bhadraiah Mallampalliji,

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > > I would request you to kindly go through your own post once

> again.

> > > >

> > > > Can you pick even a single cogent reason from your own points

> as

> > to

> > > > why we should continue to follow the fraud known as Vedic

> > astrology,

> > > > which is neither scientific, nor logical, least of all Vedic,

> > > > instead of celebrating our festivals and muhurtas on correct

> > days,

> > > > as advised by our shastras, logic and science--since

> > > > Uttarayana/Dakshina yana/Vasanta Sampat/Hemanta Sampat etc.

> are

> > all

> > > > phenomena of seasons and therefore scientific! Similarly, all

> the

> > > > Vedas and Puranas have fixed certain days for rituals! E.g.,

> > > > Nirjala Ekadashi is a sort of Tapasya only if we observe it in

> > > > Summer, when we feel most thirsty, whereas in Winter, it is

> > hardly

> > > > worthwhile! And that is what we will be doing after a few

> > centuries-

> > > > -celebrating that day in Winter--thanks to " Vedic astrologers "

> > and

> > > > their " Vedic astrology "

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

> Voice your opinion on the burning issues of the day. Discuss, debate

with the world. Logon to message boards on MSN. Try it!

>

> Sie sind Spam leid? Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz

gegen Massenmails.

>

--- End forwarded message ---

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