Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Mr Jain and Mr Kaul, My pranam to you both. You both are learned individuals and I am in no state to even suggest anything. So, I am humbly requesting - Kaul ji All the points you have raised are very logical and we do need to get the answers. Some of the points I have (in the past) pondered upon - but I have not got any satisfactory answer. Since you have gone to so much depth and have an ocean of knowledge, may I humbly request you to enlighten me and others who would be grateful to you for a logical conclusion. With Regards KN Punj--- On Mon, 18/8/08, wrote: Digest Number 115 Date: Monday, 18 August, 2008, 2:19 PM Science of Vedic astrology Messages In This Digest (2 Messages) 1a. Re: Fwd: Re: Eclipses and fear psychosis sanatkumar jain 1b. Fwd: Re: Eclipses and fear psychosis Avtar Krishen Kaul View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages 1a. Re: Fwd: Re: Eclipses and fear psychosis Posted by: "sanatkumar jain" sanatkumar_jain sanat2221 Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:06 am (PDT) Resp Kaul ji,Namaskar,Yes, you are quite right that our businessman, cunning astrologers have nothing to say in support of their stand. You may have seen I am asking repeatedly about the principles of predictive astrology, But not a single astrologer is coming forward and leave it even general members do not have inquisitive mind. Because every orator is busy in closing the inquisitive mind with the storm of blind-faith.But question is this when crop of ignorant heads is easily available to the astrologer, in the society for cutting, exploiting, cheating, befooling etc. and sufferer is not willing to hear about his exploitation (either in the form of wrong prediction or in the form of wrong dates of festivals etc.) and moreover he do not want to know about his exploitation then what can be done. Because so long ignorant heads with full of blind-faith will be available in the society (which comprises 70% illiterate and 29.9% follower of these 70% due to count of heads) till then there is sufficient scope for cunning astrologers. And at the most we can see as to how they are being exploited like a hen that is being prepared for a meal.In this turbulent situation it is more then enough if we save our-selves from the storm of cheaters.Yours truly,SanatOn Sat, 16 Aug 2008 Avtar Krishen Kaul wrote :>HinduCalendar, "Avtar Krishen Kaul"><jyotirved@ ...> wrote:>>>Dear friends,>Namaskar!><I am strictly against slandering of the ancient Puranas and the>Vedas which is being done here, and my links tell me that here is a>Kashmiri Pandit who is a Muslim converted into a Hindu Pundit for>commercial purposes, but since no more business available now in>Kashmir, he has got down to the rotten depths of slandering Hindus>and their ancinet practises of yore have been given name of>superstitions. >>>The Gita has said, "adharmam dharmam it ya-manyate tamsa-avrita>sarvarthan vipareetanshchai, budhih sa paartha tamasi">i.e.>"Know that intellect to be tamasi which considers adharma as dharma>and also construes every thing in an entirely opposite sense".>>I have asked all the jyotishis the world over to quote even a single>sholka from any Veda, Purana or shastra that has advised us to>consult some soothsayer before embarking on any plan. They have yet>to cite even a single such "pramana" but still they want me to agree>with them that the hocus pocus called "Vedic jyotish" is enshrined in>our shastras!>>When asked as to why has the Mbh asked to treat a nakshatra-soochi>brahmana as chandala, they claim ignorance!>>When asked to quote even a single mantra or sholka from any shastra>that has advised us to believe in bhagya instead of karma, they just>beat about the bush!>>When asked to give one good reason as to how the predictions of>Varahamahira or Prithuyashas or Rama Dayalu or Kashi Nath or even>Ganesha Daivajnya, for that matter, could be correct when the>fundamental arguments of all such works as were being used for>preparing panchangas till a hundred years back were monstrously>wrong, they just mumble some abracdabra which makes no sense at all!>>When asked as to how could Lahri Ayanamsha be as per the shastras and>how could Bhagwan Rama and Krishna have Incarnated in that>Rashichakra, since Lahiri himself was not around more than a hundred>years back, they again prattle something like "Chitra Ayanamsha">which itself proves that they do not know even ABC of astronomy!>>When asked as to why there are at least half a dozen ayanamshas>floating around in "Vedic astrology" even today, if it has been>practised by all the Rishis (sic!) inclduing Vamadeva ever since at>least 5000 BCE---for the last 7000 years!---they claim that each>jyotishi is free to choose any ayanamsha!>>When asked as to how the Narada Purana could give the same>fundamental arguments about astronomy, inlcuding the Ayanamsha>sholkas, as given in the Surya Sidhana of Maya the mlechha, unless it>was an interpolation by soem good for nothing jyotishi, they just>evade the issues!>>When asked as to how the Vishnudahrmottara- Purana could give these>same planetary orbital elements etc. as given in Brahma-Sphuta->Sidhanta, unles it was plagiarism of the worst order, they just>practise a studied silence!>>When asked as to how could Bhagwan Ram have incarnated in around 9000>BCE as per the so called planetary position in the Valmiki Ramayana>since the same Valmiki Ramayana tells us that He ruled for 11000>years, they just avoid the topic!>>One jyotishi of "ancient Indian astrology" even "proved" that>Bhagwan Ram had Incarnated as late (or as early!) as around 200 BCE>as per the chart prepared by him from Shri Jagananatha Hora software-->-that has been prepared by the "master Vedic astrologer"- --the owner>of "Vedic-astrology" of froum)! When confronted with the>facts from NASA and Swiss Ephemeris programs that that the planetary>longitudes etc. calculated by that software were basically and>fundamentally wrong, that gentleman did not bother even to reply that>post, leave alone infroming other members of the forum that he is>moderating about the monstrostosity of that software!>>And, above all, when these jyotishis were asked as to why they are>not following a Sayana Rashichakra for festivals and even their>predictive gimmicks as that is the one given in all the Puranas>including the Vishnu-Purana of Parashara Rishi, they have no answers,>though they claim Brihat Parashara Hora Shastram to be a work of the>same Parashara Rishi!>>And to confuse everybody about their motives of propagating mlechha>jyotisha (which they call "Vedic astrology"), they go to the depths>of claiming "my links tell me that here is a Kashmiri Pandit who is a>Muslim converted into a Hindu Pundit"!>>I cannot resist the temptation of quoting a Persian couplet here--->much to the chagrin of these jyotishis, again!-->"ta marda sukhan na-gufta bashad, aib o hunarash nihufta bashad">i.e.>"Unless someone says something, his positive and negative traits>remain hidden">I am glad that these jyotishis have exposed their real "genetic code ->-genome!)" themselves and thus made the job of every member easier to>take them for what they are: Worse than Islamist fundamentalists who>approach with the proposition with Koran in one hand and sword in>another "choose either of the two". These jyotishis also have a>similar proposition: "Either you repeat with us 'Predictive gimmicks>are Vedic astrology propounded by all our shastras, or else we dub>you a Muslim convert".>><It seems he has got wealth from ancestors for eating 2 times food,>therefore all the time in the world to talk rot and garbage about the>Hindus.>>>As everybody knows by now, all these jyotishis are worried about is>money, money, money! Because they have not read even the Gita--just a>work of 700 shlokas---as otherwise they would not have forgotten>"ananyashchintayan to mam ye jana paryupasate>tesham nitya yuktanam yoga kshemam vahami aham">>I leave it to you to understand the meaning for yourself.>>Let me close this post with the famous motiff "yato dharmas tato>jayah"---"Where there is dharma, victory is there". It is a dharma->yudha! And in spite of all these "Vedic astrologers" , billions upon>billions of them---we will definitely be able to streamline our>calendars!>Regards,>Avtar Krishen Kaul>>>>HinduCalendar, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ >>wrote:> >> >> > DearGopal Sharma,> >> > Here there are those Hindus who could have cut the heads of those>who> > talk rubbish of the Vedas, and the Puranas, and the great men of> > yesteryears. I am one among those. I wish i was in power, and I>would> > have done justice straightaway. No courts, and no hearings for these> > rascals who talk rubbush about the ancient Hindus and their>practises.> > Are you sure about yourself whether you are a sane real Hindu ? If>so> > then ask the members to leave the frorum, otherwise not.> >> > I am strictly against slandering of the anciient Puranas and the>Vedas> > which is being done here, and my links tell me that here is a>Kashmiri> > Pandit who is a Muslim converted into a Hindu Pundit for commercial> > purposes, but since no more business available now in Kashmir, he>has> > got down to the rotten depths of slandering Hindus and their ancinet> > practises of yore have been given name of superstitions. It seems>he> > has got wealth from ancestors for eating 2 times food, therefore>all the> > time in the world to talk rot and garbage about the Hindus.> >> > Why should we go from here ?> >> > Why not remove these dogs who are doing this, from existence ???> >> > Bhaskaran .> >> >> >> >> >> >> > HinduCalendar, Gopal Sharma <gksv@> wrote:> > >> > > With the number of idiots being allowed by the Moderator of this> > group..in the "name of free exchange of ideas"..I disown this farce> > group.> > > Let all sane Hindus get away from this group.> > > There is a saying never argue with an idiot....because he/she will> > bring you down to his/her level..and you cannot compete with>him/her at> > that level..Bye.> > > For me this group is spam now.> > > Bye !!!!> > >> > > K Gopu kgopu_24@ wrote: It is quite strange that Sri arul seem to> > accept only Modern day> > > scientist and that to from a laboratory. whereas the same is said> > > by ancient rishis in a different form it isnt acceptable because> > ancient> > > rishis have not worked scientific labs like the modern day>scientist>>--- End forwarded message --->> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3) 1b. Fwd: Re: Eclipses and fear psychosis Posted by: "Avtar Krishen Kaul" jyotirved a_krishen Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:39 am (PDT) HinduCalendar, "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved@. ..> wrote:Shri K. Gopuji,Namaskar!It is said, "some people have infectious smiles"! Some members of this forum have a bad habit of twisting facts and that habit also is infcetious! You also seem to have been "affected" by that habit!I can understand jyotishis squirming when being cornered but what I cannot udnerstand is your following statement! <<Still the unknown energies released from such phenomena is still not known so it is advisable not to take risks of asking pregnant women to go out during eclipse. It is better non-believers shud keep their mouth shut and not venture into adventurous message abt eclipse and challenging under the garb that scriptures like vedas have not made any mention abt the same.>Is it that you have not read the last para of my post on the above topic which reads"Let us, therefore, enjoy the eclipses with certain precautions- --especially the solar ones and be one with Nature!" or is it that you are deliberately ignoring it i.e. "with some precautions" so that the other members feel they are being asked to "look at the eclipsed sun with naked eyes".You should know it that it is not scientists but tantriks and hatha-yogis who are supposed to do "Tratak" on the risign sun and/or setting sun and esepcially at the time of eclipses! If some "neurosurgeon" has done it 35 years back, he must have been more of a tantrik than a nuro-surgeon!The tragic fact is that most of the people who know facts "keep their mouths shut" (as advised by you!)---most of them are just silent spectators-- - and that encourages charlatans and phonies to spin unending yarns about their astrological prowess! If you are so sure about astrological portents of eclipses, can you quote, with proof, even a single prediction about the specific effect of any eclipse that has proved true till date---though eclipses have been going on ever since the dawn of creation? Has any jyotishi ever predicted that because of so and so eclipse, so and so state will have floods/drought/ disaster at such and such day in such and such area? Or has any jyotishis predicted that because of so and so eclipse so and so government will be overthrown within so and so number of days? Leave alone mundane affairs, has any astrologer predicted the exact date of his/her own death correctly beforehand?I may remind you here that the "greatest Vedic astrologer of the twenetieth century" was going to deliver a lecture on "Astrology as a tool of daiganosis for heart attacks" on Jnuary 3 of the ensuing year in Hynerabad, but poor fellow passed away about twenty days before taht "astrologically planned lecture" because of "cardiac arrest (the topic on which he was going to lecture to the medical fratenrity!) ! Tht is why we say in Kashmiri, "Peea kartam yariyah yati paan yeeru asakh"! i.e. "O' panditji/maulana, please pull me out of that conflux of muddy waters where you are getting drowned yourself". If jyotishis cannot foresee their own future, how on earth can they foresee someone else's?Then there are some members who claim to have read the MBh from cover to cover to discuss the departure of Bhishma Pitamaha on the Uttarayana, but when it comes to the same Mbh (Bhishma Parva, adhyaya 3, verses 32) saying "I have heard about a fortnight of sixteen, fifteen and even fourteen days, but never have I heard about a fortnight of 13 days--Amavasya on Trayodashi-- -when the Sun and the moon both are eclipsed together (hence I feel there is going to be a calamity)" the same member wants us to refer to God-forsaken, good for nothing and the most misleading and misguiding work viz. Atharva-Veda-Parishsitha because some charlatan has named it as Atharva-Veda-Parishishta and because that useless work has talked of the evil consequences of an eclipse within fourteen days of the previous one! He may as well ask us to refer to Alah-Upanishada- -because some mlechha has coined the name as "Upanishada" . You can expect anything from some jyotishis! They are no less than politicians- --prevarications on every step!It is a strange logic on the part of these jyotishis that anybody pointing out to the impossibilities of some sidhantic statements, makes them pronounce "Vedas cannot be challenged" as if pinpointing some fallacies in the jyotishis or their pet theories is challenging the Vedas! But then these jyotishis consider themselves "modern incarnations of Vamadevas". The only way to show them their place is just ignore them!With regards,AKKHinduCalendar, K Gopu <kgopu_24@> wrote:>> dear member,> > 35years back one of the famous neuro surgeon Late dr.B.ramamurthi of chennai came out> > with his views that solar eclipse can be viewed with naked eye and that> eclipses as no effect on the human system. people who viewed it started> getting vision problem within a year. Still the unknown energies> released from such phenomena is still not known so it is advisable not> to take risks of asking pregnant women to go out during eclipse.> > It is better non- believers shud keep their mouth shut and not venture> into adventurous message abt eclipse and challenging under the garb> that scriptures like vedas have not made any mention abt the same.> > > > good wishes,> > k.gopu> > > > > > --- On Wed, 8/13/08, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a@> wrote:> Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a@>> Re: [HinduCalendar] Eclipses and fear psychosis> HinduCalendar> Wednesday, August 13, 2008, 11:18 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > Ask Avtarji. He quoted a report about some catastrophy.> 1. QUOTE> Don't worry. Atharva veda parishishtha says it is disastrous only if it occurs within 14 days.> UNQUOTE Of what disasters should individuals (and nations) be worried about if the eclipse were to occur within 14 days?> > Ask Avtarji. He quoted a report about some catastrophy.> 2. Why are temples closed for> many hours during days of eclipse? Is it because that even the gods> will be otherwise exposed to danger? Temples then reopen for special pujas! For what? Would it> not be more meaningful for the temples to remain OPEN all day so that> people can be physically close to the gods during those hours of danger? Kind of taking 'refuge' in the temples.> > Ask the temple authorities. It is their decision.> 3. Tradition-bound> mothers (-in-law) are said to worry about their pregnant daughters> (-in-law), who are advised against venturing out during days> of eclipse. I know of one case, many years back, of a working lady> forced to stay away from office on one such day of eclipse. Do> the scriptures specify the risks that such ladies may be exposed> to if they were to leave home on such days?> > > > As her who advised her to do so and on the basis of which scripture.> > > Arul T <arul_thilak@ >> HinduCalendar> Wednesday, August 13, 2008 3:16:11 AM> Re: [HinduCalendar] Eclipses and fear psychosis> > Some quick questions: 1. QUOTE> Don't worry. Atharva veda parishishtha says it is disastrous only if it occurs within 14 days.> UNQUOTE Of what disasters should individuals (and nations) be worried about if the eclipse were to occur within 14 days? 2. Why> are temples closed for many hours during days of> eclipse? Is it because that even the gods will be otherwise> exposed to danger? Temples then reopen for special pujas! For what? Would> it not be more meaningful for the temples to remain OPEN> all day so that people can be physically close to the gods during> those hours of danger? Kind of taking 'refuge' in the temples. 3. > Tradition-bound mothers (-in-law) are said to worry about their> pregnant daughters (-in-law), who are advised against venturing> out during days of eclipse. I know of one case,> many years back, of a working lady forced to stay away from> office on one such day of eclipse. Do> the scriptures specify the risks that such ladies may be exposed> to if they were to leave home on such days? > --- On Wed, 13/8/08, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a @> wrote:> Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a @>> Re: [HinduCalendar] Eclipses and fear psychosis> HinduCalendar> Wednesday, 13 August, 2008, 1:36 AM> > Dear friends. > > Namskar,> > Don't worry. Atharva veda parishishtha says it is disastrous only if it occurs within 14> days.> > Regards,> > skb> > > > > jyotirved <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com>> To:> HinduCalendar; @ . com;> Vedic Astrology- hyderabad; vedic_research_ institute@> . com> Tuesday, August 12, 2008 9:00:08 AM> [HinduCalendar] Eclipses and fear psychosis> > Dear friends,Namaskar! As> is common knowledge by now, there is going to be a lunar eclipse on> August 16 after the Solar eclipse of August 1. Naturally, TV> channels are abuzz with the news that as one eclipse follows another,> it will be catastrophic not only for the nation as a whole but> everybody individually as well! A saying in Hindi is repeated very often these days by these jyotishis and that saying> is: "ek> paakh main do grahna, mare raja ya mare sena" i.e." if there are two> eclipses in one fortnight, either the king dies or his soldiers> die". Some even twist it as "Ek paksha main do grahna, na rahe> raja na sena" i.e " if there are two eclipses in one fortnight, both> the king as well his army will be wiped out!" There> are also references to "ghasrapksha" in the Mahabharata. It talks> of a paksha of thirteen days when one eclipse had followed> another. It is presumed that because of those two eclipses in one> paksha (fortnight), the Mbh war took place and/or the "Yadu-kula"> became defunct! It all shows how ignorant we are actually about basic astronomical/ geographical facts! The> fact of the matter is that every year, without fail, there will be at> least two solar eclipses! It just cannot be helped! But> there can never be more than five solar eclipses in a year! There> can be a maximum of three lunar eclipses in a year! WHAT IS TO BE> NOTED IS THAT WHENEVER THERE IS A LUNAR ECLIPSE IT IS ALWAYS EITHER> PRECEDED OR FOLLOWED BY A SOLAR ECLIPSE! A lunar eclipse can> never take place without a solar eclipse either preceding or following> it. Sometimes, it is three eclipses in succession: solar> eclipse---lunar eclipse---solar eclipse! So> instead of explaining the fact that there is nothing extraordinary> about a solar eclipse following a lunar one, all that is being dinned> into our ears is that there is going to be a catastrophe! But> these jyotishis are never specific as to what type of catastrophe it> will be where it will be and when it will be! By> analyzing the statements of jyotishis, we arrive at the conclusion> that since there will always be two eclipses whenever there is a> lunar eclipse, which will be almost every year, thus there is going to> be a catastrophe for the nations as a whole and also individuals> individually every year in future! It is also really amazing that> in spite of such dire "results" of eclipses the mankind is still> surviving, since there have been literally thousands of lunar eclipses> in the past which means there were thousands of pairs of lunar and> solar eclipses till date! Obviously, the only catastrophe the nations have is the catastrophe- mongering jyotishis! Regarding> thirteen day paksha of the MBh, in ancient India , only mean tithis> were calculated. And it appears that MBh tithis were calculated> as per the principles enumerated in the Vedanga Jyotisha. So if> it was a paksha of thirteen days during the MBh war, it is not> clear as to which tithis were kshyaya, because only when two tithes are> kshyaya, it can be thirteen days instead of fifteen days in > a paksha . However,> I checked the details of eclipses on NASA website for 3200 BCE to 1500> BCE. There have been at least a hundred eclipses during that> period that have followed one another within thirteen days! Does> it mean that there have been at least a hundred Mbh wars during that> period, if another eclipse during a span of thirteen days denotes> nothing but bloodshed! All> this noise about one calamity following another because of the two> eclipses being in succession, is as such, as per the "commandments"> of Varahamihira, whose main aim was to provide "job security" to> the people of his clan, since he had advised that "every king must have> a samvatsarika" ---even if he had no commander in chief or Prime> Minister! And> he has succeeded well in his efforts! Whether or not anybody> suffers from some catastrophe because of eclipses, jyotishis are making> us suffer certainly but they are themselves enjoying a bonanza! > They are busy with performing pujas and remedial measures for their> clients ny having created fear psychosis and thus fattening their bank> balances by fleecing the gullible! There is a saying in Persian,> "Murda jannat ravad ya ba dozakh, mula ra naan-o-paneer"—i.e. "whether> the departed soul goes to hell or heaven, it is immaterial for the> priest/mullah performing the ceremonies for the dead! All he is> bothered about is his bread and butter". Let> us, therefore, enjoy the eclipses with certain precautions-> --especially the solar ones and be one with Nature! That is the> most befitting reply to these catastrophe- mongers.> With regards, Avtar Krishen Kaul > > New Email names for you! > > Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail.> > Hurry before someone else does!>--- End forwarded message --- Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity 2 New MembersVisit Your Group Ads on Learn more now. Reach customers searching for you. Curves on A group for women to share & discuss food & weight loss. Change your life with balance nutrition, activity & well-being. 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Guest guest Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Dear Punj Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your first msg. We welcome you in the forum for active exchange of views. If you have no objection then you can introduce your-self so that members may have a feeling of closeness. I find there is no specific query along with your stand in your msg. I think you have been interacting with Sh Kaul ji, since some time hence he will definitely reply for logical conclusion about your point. I hope you will go through various files containing discussion of some disputed point and will share your views for further interaction. Thanks Yours truly, Sanat , kn punj <knpunj wrote: > > Mr Jain and Mr Kaul, >  > My pranam to you both. > You both are learned individuals and I am in no state to even suggest anything. > So, I am humbly requesting - > Kaul ji > All the points you have raised are very logical and we do need to get the answers. > Some of the points I have (in the past) pondered upon - but I have not got any > satisfactory answer. > Since you have gone to so much depth and have an ocean of knowledge, may I humbly > request you to enlighten me and others who would be grateful to you for a logical conclusion. >  > With Regards > KN Punj > > --- On Mon, 18/8/08, wrote: > > > Digest Number 115 > > Monday, 18 August, 2008, 2:19 PM > > > > > > > > > > Science of Vedic astrology > > Messages In This Digest (2 Messages) > > > 1a. > Re: Fwd: Re: Eclipses and fear psychosis sanatkumar jain > 1b. > Fwd: Re: Eclipses and fear psychosis Avtar Krishen Kaul > View All Topics | Create New Topic > Messages > > > 1a. > > Re: Fwd: Re: Eclipses and fear psychosis > Posted by: " sanatkumar jain " sanatkumar_jain  sanat2221 > Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:06 am (PDT) >  > > Resp Kaul ji, > Namaskar, > Yes, you are quite right that our businessman, cunning astrologers have nothing to say in support of their stand. You may have seen I am asking repeatedly about the principles of predictive astrology, But not a single astrologer is coming forward and leave it even general members do not have inquisitive mind. Because every orator is busy in closing the inquisitive mind with the storm of blind-faith. > > But question is this when crop of ignorant heads is easily available to the astrologer, in the society for cutting, exploiting, cheating, befooling etc. and sufferer is not willing to hear about his exploitation (either in the form of wrong prediction or in the form of wrong dates of festivals etc.) and moreover he do not want to know about his exploitation then what can be done. Because so long ignorant heads with full of blind-faith will be available in the society (which comprises 70% illiterate and 29.9% follower of these 70% due to count of heads) till then there is sufficient scope for cunning astrologers. And at the most we can see as to how they are being exploited like a hen that is being prepared for a meal. > > In this turbulent situation it is more then enough if we save our- selves from the storm of cheaters. > > Yours truly, > > Sanat > > On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 Avtar Krishen Kaul wrote : > >HinduCalendar, " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > ><jyotirved@ ...> wrote: > > > > > >Dear friends, > >Namaskar! > ><I am strictly against slandering of the ancient Puranas and the > >Vedas which is being done here, and my links tell me that here is a > >Kashmiri Pandit who is a Muslim converted into a Hindu Pundit for > >commercial purposes, but since no more business available now in > >Kashmir, he has got down to the rotten depths of slandering Hindus > >and their ancinet practises of yore have been given name of > >superstitions. > > > > >The Gita has said, " adharmam dharmam it ya-manyate tamsa-avrita > >sarvarthan vipareetanshchai, budhih sa paartha tamasi " > >i.e. > > " Know that intellect to be tamasi which considers adharma as dharma > >and also construes every thing in an entirely opposite sense " . > > > >I have asked all the jyotishis the world over to quote even a single > >sholka from any Veda, Purana or shastra that has advised us to > >consult some soothsayer before embarking on any plan. They have yet > >to cite even a single such " pramana " but still they want me to agree > >with them that the hocus pocus called " Vedic jyotish " is enshrined in > >our shastras! > > > >When asked as to why has the Mbh asked to treat a nakshatra-soochi > >brahmana as chandala, they claim ignorance! > > > >When asked to quote even a single mantra or sholka from any shastra > >that has advised us to believe in bhagya instead of karma, they just > >beat about the bush! > > > >When asked to give one good reason as to how the predictions of > >Varahamahira or Prithuyashas or Rama Dayalu or Kashi Nath or even > >Ganesha Daivajnya, for that matter, could be correct when the > >fundamental arguments of all such works as were being used for > >preparing panchangas till a hundred years back were monstrously > >wrong, they just mumble some abracdabra which makes no sense at all! > > > >When asked as to how could Lahri Ayanamsha be as per the shastras and > >how could Bhagwan Rama and Krishna have Incarnated in that > >Rashichakra, since Lahiri himself was not around more than a hundred > >years back, they again prattle something like " Chitra Ayanamsha " > >which itself proves that they do not know even ABC of astronomy! > > > >When asked as to why there are at least half a dozen ayanamshas > >floating around in " Vedic astrology " even today, if it has been > >practised by all the Rishis (sic!) inclduing Vamadeva ever since at > >least 5000 BCE---for the last 7000 years!---they claim that each > >jyotishi is free to choose any ayanamsha! > > > >When asked as to how the Narada Purana could give the same > >fundamental arguments about astronomy, inlcuding the Ayanamsha > >sholkas, as given in the Surya Sidhana of Maya the mlechha, unless it > >was an interpolation by soem good for nothing jyotishi, they just > >evade the issues! > > > >When asked as to how the Vishnudahrmottara- Purana could give these > >same planetary orbital elements etc. as given in Brahma-Sphuta- > >Sidhanta, unles it was plagiarism of the worst order, they just > >practise a studied silence! > > > >When asked as to how could Bhagwan Ram have incarnated in around 9000 > >BCE as per the so called planetary position in the Valmiki Ramayana > >since the same Valmiki Ramayana tells us that He ruled for 11000 > >years, they just avoid the topic! > > > >One jyotishi of " ancient Indian astrology " even " proved " that > >Bhagwan Ram had Incarnated as late (or as early!) as around 200 BCE > >as per the chart prepared by him from Shri Jagananatha Hora software-- > >-that has been prepared by the " master Vedic astrologer " - --the owner > >of " Vedic-astrology " of froum)! When confronted with the > >facts from NASA and Swiss Ephemeris programs that that the planetary > >longitudes etc. calculated by that software were basically and > >fundamentally wrong, that gentleman did not bother even to reply that > >post, leave alone infroming other members of the forum that he is > >moderating about the monstrostosity of that software! > > > >And, above all, when these jyotishis were asked as to why they are > >not following a Sayana Rashichakra for festivals and even their > >predictive gimmicks as that is the one given in all the Puranas > >including the Vishnu-Purana of Parashara Rishi, they have no answers, > >though they claim Brihat Parashara Hora Shastram to be a work of the > >same Parashara Rishi! > > > >And to confuse everybody about their motives of propagating mlechha > >jyotisha (which they call " Vedic astrology " ), they go to the depths > >of claiming " my links tell me that here is a Kashmiri Pandit who is a > >Muslim converted into a Hindu Pundit " ! > > > >I cannot resist the temptation of quoting a Persian couplet here--- > >much to the chagrin of these jyotishis, again!-- > > " ta marda sukhan na-gufta bashad, aib o hunarash nihufta bashad " > >i.e. > > " Unless someone says something, his positive and negative traits > >remain hidden " > >I am glad that these jyotishis have exposed their real " genetic code - > >-genome!) " themselves and thus made the job of every member easier to > >take them for what they are: Worse than Islamist fundamentalists who > >approach with the proposition with Koran in one hand and sword in > >another " choose either of the two " . These jyotishis also have a > >similar proposition: " Either you repeat with us 'Predictive gimmicks > >are Vedic astrology propounded by all our shastras, or else we dub > >you a Muslim convert " . > > > ><It seems he has got wealth from ancestors for eating 2 times food, > >therefore all the time in the world to talk rot and garbage about the > >Hindus.> > > > >As everybody knows by now, all these jyotishis are worried about is > >money, money, money! Because they have not read even the Gita-- just a > >work of 700 shlokas---as otherwise they would not have forgotten > > " ananyashchintayan to mam ye jana paryupasate > >tesham nitya yuktanam yoga kshemam vahami aham " > > > >I leave it to you to understand the meaning for yourself. > > > >Let me close this post with the famous motiff " yato dharmas tato > >jayah " --- " Where there is dharma, victory is there " . It is a dharma- > >yudha! And in spite of all these " Vedic astrologers " , billions upon > >billions of them---we will definitely be able to streamline our > >calendars! > >Regards, > >Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > > > >HinduCalendar, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > DearGopal Sharma, > > > > > > Here there are those Hindus who could have cut the heads of those > >who > > > talk rubbish of the Vedas, and the Puranas, and the great men of > > > yesteryears. I am one among those. I wish i was in power, and I > >would > > > have done justice straightaway. No courts, and no hearings for these > > > rascals who talk rubbush about the ancient Hindus and their > >practises. > > > Are you sure about yourself whether you are a sane real Hindu ? If > >so > > > then ask the members to leave the frorum, otherwise not. > > > > > > I am strictly against slandering of the anciient Puranas and the > >Vedas > > > which is being done here, and my links tell me that here is a > >Kashmiri > > > Pandit who is a Muslim converted into a Hindu Pundit for commercial > > > purposes, but since no more business available now in Kashmir, he > >has > > > got down to the rotten depths of slandering Hindus and their ancinet > > > practises of yore have been given name of superstitions. It seems > >he > > > has got wealth from ancestors for eating 2 times food, therefore > >all the > > > time in the world to talk rot and garbage about the Hindus. > > > > > > Why should we go from here ? > > > > > > Why not remove these dogs who are doing this, from existence ??? > > > > > > Bhaskaran . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, Gopal Sharma <gksv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > With the number of idiots being allowed by the Moderator of this > > > group..in the " name of free exchange of ideas " ..I disown this farce > > > group. > > > > Let all sane Hindus get away from this group. > > > > There is a saying never argue with an idiot....because he/she will > > > bring you down to his/her level..and you cannot compete with > >him/her at > > > that level..Bye. > > > > For me this group is spam now. > > > > Bye !!!! > > > > > > > > K Gopu kgopu_24@ wrote: It is quite strange that Sri arul seem to > > > accept only Modern day > > > > scientist and that to from a laboratory. whereas the same is said > > > > by ancient rishis in a different form it isnt acceptable because > > > ancient > > > > rishis have not worked scientific labs like the modern day > >scientist > > > >--- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post > Messages in this topic (3) > 1b. > > Fwd: Re: Eclipses and fear psychosis > Posted by: " Avtar Krishen Kaul " jyotirved  a_krishen > Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:39 am (PDT) > HinduCalendar, " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > <jyotirved@ ..> wrote: > > Shri K. Gopuji, > Namaskar! > It is said, " some people have infectious smiles " ! Some members of > this forum have a bad habit of twisting facts and that habit also is > infcetious! You also seem to have been " affected " by that habit! > > I can understand jyotishis squirming when being cornered but what I > cannot udnerstand is your following statement! > <<Still the unknown energies released from such phenomena is still > not known so it is advisable not to take risks of asking pregnant > women to go out during eclipse. It is better non-believers shud keep > their mouth shut and not venture into adventurous message abt eclipse > and challenging under the garb that scriptures like vedas have not > made any mention abt the same.> > > Is it that you have not read the last para of my post on the above > topic which reads > " Let us, therefore, enjoy the eclipses with certain precautions- -- > especially the solar ones and be one with Nature! " or is it that you > are deliberately ignoring it i.e. " with some precautions " so that the > other members feel they are being asked to " look at the eclipsed sun > with naked eyes " . > > You should know it that it is not scientists but tantriks and hatha- > yogis who are supposed to do " Tratak " on the risign sun and/or > setting sun and esepcially at the time of eclipses! If > some " neurosurgeon " has done it 35 years back, he must have been more > of a tantrik than a nuro-surgeon! > > The tragic fact is that most of the people who know facts " keep their > mouths shut " (as advised by you!)---most of them are just silent > spectators-- - and that encourages charlatans and phonies to spin > unending yarns about their astrological prowess! If you are so sure > about astrological portents of eclipses, can you quote, with proof, > even a single prediction about the specific effect of any eclipse > that has proved true till date---though eclipses have been going on > ever since the dawn of creation? Has any jyotishi ever predicted that > because of so and so eclipse, so and so state will have > floods/drought/ disaster at such and such day in such and such area? > Or has any jyotishis predicted that because of so and so eclipse so > and so government will be overthrown within so and so number of > days? Leave alone mundane affairs, has any astrologer predicted the > exact date of his/her own death correctly beforehand? > I may remind you here that the " greatest Vedic astrologer of the > twenetieth century " was going to deliver a lecture on " Astrology as a > tool of daiganosis for heart attacks " on Jnuary 3 of the ensuing year > in Hynerabad, but poor fellow passed away about twenty days before > taht " astrologically planned lecture " because of " cardiac arrest > (the topic on which he was going to lecture to the medical > fratenrity!) ! Tht is why we say in Kashmiri, " Peea kartam yariyah > yati paan yeeru asakh " ! i.e. " O' panditji/maulana, please pull me > out of that conflux of muddy waters where you are getting drowned > yourself " . If jyotishis cannot foresee their own future, how on > earth can they foresee someone else's? > > Then there are some members who claim to have read the MBh from cover > to cover to discuss the departure of Bhishma Pitamaha on the > Uttarayana, but when it comes to the same Mbh (Bhishma Parva, adhyaya > 3, verses 32) saying " I have heard about a fortnight of sixteen, > fifteen and even fourteen days, but never have I heard about a > fortnight of 13 days--Amavasya on Trayodashi-- -when the Sun and the > moon both are eclipsed together (hence I feel there is going to be a > calamity) " the same member wants us to refer to God-forsaken, good > for nothing and the most misleading and misguiding work viz. Atharva- > Veda-Parishsitha because some charlatan has named it as Atharva- Veda- > Parishishta and because that useless work has talked of the evil > consequences of an eclipse within fourteen days of the previous one! > He may as well ask us to refer to Alah-Upanishada- -because some > mlechha has coined the name as " Upanishada " . You can expect anything > from some jyotishis! They are no less than politicians- -- > prevarications on every step! > It is a strange logic on the part of these jyotishis that anybody > pointing out to the impossibilities of some sidhantic statements, > makes them pronounce " Vedas cannot be challenged " as if pinpointing > some fallacies in the jyotishis or their pet theories is challenging > the Vedas! But then these jyotishis consider themselves " modern > incarnations of Vamadevas " . The only way to show them their place is > just ignore them! > With regards, > AKK > HinduCalendar, K Gopu <kgopu_24@> wrote: > > > > dear member, > > > > 35years back one of the famous neuro surgeon Late dr.B.ramamurthi > of chennai came out > > > > with his views that solar eclipse can be viewed with naked eye and > that > > eclipses as no effect on the human system. people who viewed it > started > > getting vision problem within a year. Still the unknown energies > > released from such phenomena is still not known so it is advisable > not > > to take risks of asking pregnant women to go out during eclipse. > > > > It is better non- believers shud keep their mouth shut and not > venture > > into adventurous message abt eclipse and challenging under the garb > > that scriptures like vedas have not made any mention abt the same. > > > > > > > > good wishes, > > > > k.gopu > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 8/13/08, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a@> > wrote: > > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a@> > > Re: [HinduCalendar] Eclipses and fear psychosis > > HinduCalendar > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008, 11:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ask Avtarji. He quoted a report about some catastrophy. > > 1.  QUOTE > > Don't worry. Atharva veda parishishtha says it is disastrous only > if it occurs within 14 days. > > UNQUOTE Of what disasters should individuals (and nations) be > worried about if the eclipse were to occur within 14 days? > > > > Ask Avtarji. He quoted a report about some catastrophy. > >   2. Why are temples closed for > > many hours during days of eclipse?  Is it because that even the gods > > will be otherwise exposed to danger?   Temples then reopen for > special pujas! For what? Would it > > not be more meaningful for the temples to remain OPEN all day so > that > > people can be physically close to the gods during those hours of > danger? Kind of taking 'refuge' in the temples. > > > > Ask the temple authorities. It is their decision. > >   3. Tradition-bound > > mothers (-in-law) are said to worry about their pregnant daughters > > (-in-law), who are advised against venturing out during days > > of eclipse. I know of one case, many years back, of a working lady > > forced to stay away from office on one such day of eclipse.  Do > > the scriptures specify the risks that such ladies may be exposed > > to if they were to leave home on such days? > > > > > > > > As her who advised her to do so and on the basis of which > scripture. > > > > > > Arul T <arul_thilak@ > > > HinduCalendar > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008 3:16:11 AM > > Re: [HinduCalendar] Eclipses and fear psychosis > > > > Some quick questions: 1.  QUOTE > > Don't worry. Atharva veda parishishtha says it is disastrous only > if it occurs within 14 days. > > UNQUOTE Of what disasters should individuals (and nations) be > worried about if the eclipse were to occur within 14 days?  2. Why > > are temples closed for many hours during days of > > eclipse?  Is it because that even the gods will be otherwise > > exposed to danger?   Temples then reopen for special pujas! For > what? Would > > it not be more meaningful for the temples to remain OPEN > > all day so that people can be physically close to the gods during > > those hours of danger? Kind of taking 'refuge' in the temples.  3. > > Tradition-bound mothers (-in-law) are said to worry about their > > pregnant daughters (-in-law), who are advised against venturing > > out during days of eclipse. I know of one case, > > many years back, of a working lady forced to stay away from > > office on one such day of eclipse.  Do > > the scriptures specify the risks that such ladies may be exposed > > to if they were to leave home on such days?   > > --- On Wed, 13/8/08, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a > @> wrote: > > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a @> > > Re: [HinduCalendar] Eclipses and fear psychosis > > HinduCalendar > > Wednesday, 13 August, 2008, 1:36 AM > > > > Dear friends. > > > > Namskar, > > > > Don't worry. Atharva veda parishishtha says it is disastrous only > if it occurs within 14 > > days. > > > > Regards, > > > > skb > > > > > > > > > > jyotirved <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> > > To: > > HinduCalendar; @ . > com; > > Vedic Astrology- hyderabad; vedic_research_ > institute@ > > . com > > Tuesday, August 12, 2008 9:00:08 AM > > [HinduCalendar] Eclipses and fear psychosis > > > > Dear friends,Namaskar! As > > is common knowledge by now, there is going to be a lunar eclipse on > > August 16 after the Solar eclipse of August 1. Naturally, TV > > channels are abuzz with the news that as one eclipse follows > another, > > it will be catastrophic not only for the nation as a whole but > > everybody individually as well!  A saying in Hindi is repeated > very often these days by these jyotishis and that saying > > is: " ek > > paakh main do grahna, mare raja ya mare sena " i.e. " if there are two > > eclipses in one fortnight, either the king dies or his soldiers > > die " . Some even twist it as " Ek paksha main do grahna, na rahe > > raja na sena " i.e " if there are two eclipses in one fortnight, both > > the king as well his army will be wiped out! "  There > > are also references to " ghasrapksha " in the Mahabharata. It talks > > of a paksha of thirteen days when one eclipse had followed > > another. It is presumed that because of those two eclipses in one > > paksha (fortnight), the Mbh war took place and/or the " Yadu-kula " > > became defunct!  It all shows how ignorant we are actually about > basic astronomical/ geographical facts!  The > > fact of the matter is that every year, without fail, there will be > at > > least two solar eclipses! It just cannot be helped! But > > there can never be more than five solar eclipses in a year!  > There > > can be a maximum of three lunar eclipses in a year! WHAT IS TO BE > > NOTED IS THAT WHENEVER THERE IS A LUNAR ECLIPSE IT IS ALWAYS EITHER > > PRECEDED OR FOLLOWED BY A SOLAR ECLIPSE! A lunar eclipse can > > never take place without a solar eclipse either preceding or > following > > it.  Sometimes, it is three eclipses in succession: solar > > eclipse---lunar eclipse---solar eclipse!   So > > instead of explaining the fact that there is nothing extraordinary > > about a solar eclipse following a lunar one, all that is being > dinned > > into our ears is that there is going to be a catastrophe! But > > these jyotishis are never specific as to what type of catastrophe it > > will be where it will be and when it will be!  By > > analyzing the statements of jyotishis, we arrive at the conclusion > >  that since there will always be two eclipses whenever there is a > > lunar eclipse, which will be almost every year, thus there is going > to > > be a catastrophe for the nations as a whole and also individuals > > individually every year in future! It is also really amazing that > > in spite of such dire " results " of eclipses the mankind is still > > surviving, since there have been literally thousands of lunar > eclipses > > in the past which means there were thousands of pairs of lunar and > > solar eclipses till date!  Obviously, the only catastrophe the > nations have is the catastrophe- mongering jyotishis!  Regarding > > thirteen day paksha of the MBh, in ancient India , only mean tithis > > were calculated. And it appears that MBh tithis were calculated > > as per the principles enumerated in the Vedanga Jyotisha. So if > > it was a paksha of thirteen days during the MBh war,  it is not > > clear as to which tithis were kshyaya, because only when two tithes > are > > kshyaya,  it can be thirteen days instead of fifteen days in > > a paksha .  However, > > I checked the details of eclipses on NASA website for 3200 BCE to > 1500 > > BCE. There have been at least a hundred eclipses during that > > period that have followed one another within thirteen days! Does > > it mean that there have been at least a hundred Mbh wars during that > > period, if another eclipse during a span of thirteen days denotes > > nothing but bloodshed!  All > > this noise about one calamity following another because of the two > > eclipses being in succession, is as such, as per the " commandments " > >  of Varahamihira, whose main aim was to provide " job security " to > > the people of his clan, since he had advised that " every king must > have > > a samvatsarika " ---even if he had no commander in chief or Prime > > Minister!  And > > he has succeeded well in his efforts! Whether or not anybody > > suffers from some catastrophe because of eclipses, jyotishis are > making > > us suffer certainly but they are themselves enjoying a bonanza! > > They are busy with performing pujas and remedial measures for their > > clients ny having created fear psychosis and thus fattening their > bank > > balances by fleecing the gullible! There is a saying in Persian, > > " Murda jannat ravad ya ba dozakh, mula ra naan-o-paneer " †" > i.e. " whether > > the departed soul goes to hell or heaven, it is immaterial for the > > priest/mullah performing the ceremonies for the dead! All he is > > bothered about is his bread and butter " .  Let > > us, therefore, enjoy the eclipses with certain precautions- > > --especially the solar ones and be one with Nature! That is the > > most befitting reply to these catastrophe- mongers. > > With regards, Avtar Krishen Kaul   > > > > New Email names for you! > > > > Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and > @rocketmail. > > > > Hurry before someone else does! > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post > Messages in this topic (3) > > > > Recent Activity > > >  2 > New MembersVisit Your Group > > > Ads on > Learn more now. > Reach customers > searching for you. > > Curves on > A group for women > to share & discuss > food & weight loss. > > Change your life > with > balance nutrition, > activity & well-being. > > > Need to Reply? 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Guest guest Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Shri K. N. Punj-ji, Namaskar! <Kaul ji All the points you have raised are very logical and we do need to get the answers.> To the best of my knowledge, I have answered the points instead of raising any! All my posts are actually in response to the questions posed by the members of this or other forums! If it appears that I have raised any questions/points, those are actually posers to the posters or other members pointing out to them the futility of having believed some stance like " Surya Sidhanta is a divine work " or " the Vedas are full of phalita principles " and so on! <Some of the points I have (in the past) pondered upon - but I have not got any satisfactory answer.> You appear to be a seeker of Truth and that is why you are bold enough to say that you did not get any satisfactory answers to most of the questions in the past. I was actually facing a similar problem/dichotomy myself! With perseverance and segregation of facts from fiction, I have been able to arrive at some conclusions, which I am keeping before anybody and everybody whosoever cares to listen! it is for them to decide whether they are correct or not! <Since you have gone to so much depth and have an ocean of knowledge, may I humbly request you to enlighten me and others who would be grateful to you for a logical conclusion> IMHO, if we want to really follow the real Vedic calendar and thereby the real Vedic dharma, we must say good-bye to Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis----whether Sayana or nirayana----since they are conspicuous by their absence from the Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. Similarly, we must say good bye to the much dreaded Mangal and Sahni and Kethu--- -including their " Mangli " and " Sade-sati " and " Kalasapra dosha " etc. etc. attributes/traits---since these most dreaded planets and the " Chhaya graha " kethu also are conspicuous by their absence from the Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.! Only then we will be able to celebrate our festivals and muhurtas on correct days. I know it is easier said than done but every journey, however long or short it maybe, starts with the first step! And we have to take that " first step " . With regards, AKK , kn punj <knpunj wrote: > > Mr Jain and Mr Kaul, >  > My pranam to you both. > You both are learned individuals and I am in no state to even suggest anything. > So, I am humbly requesting - > Kaul ji > All the points you have raised are very logical and we do need to get the answers. > Some of the points I have (in the past) pondered upon - but I have not got any > satisfactory answer. > Since you have gone to so much depth and have an ocean of knowledge, may I humbly > request you to enlighten me and others who would be grateful to you for a logical conclusion. >  > With Regards > KN Punj > > --- On Mon, 18/8/08, wrote: > > > Digest Number 115 > > Monday, 18 August, 2008, 2:19 PM > > > > > > > > > > Science of Vedic astrology > > Messages In This Digest (2 Messages) > > > 1a. > Re: Fwd: Re: Eclipses and fear psychosis sanatkumar jain > 1b. > Fwd: Re: Eclipses and fear psychosis Avtar Krishen Kaul > View All Topics | Create New Topic > Messages > > > 1a. > > Re: Fwd: Re: Eclipses and fear psychosis > Posted by: " sanatkumar jain " sanatkumar_jain  sanat2221 > Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:06 am (PDT) >  > > Resp Kaul ji, > Namaskar, > Yes, you are quite right that our businessman, cunning astrologers have nothing to say in support of their stand. You may have seen I am asking repeatedly about the principles of predictive astrology, But not a single astrologer is coming forward and leave it even general members do not have inquisitive mind. Because every orator is busy in closing the inquisitive mind with the storm of blind-faith. > > But question is this when crop of ignorant heads is easily available to the astrologer, in the society for cutting, exploiting, cheating, befooling etc. and sufferer is not willing to hear about his exploitation (either in the form of wrong prediction or in the form of wrong dates of festivals etc.) and moreover he do not want to know about his exploitation then what can be done. Because so long ignorant heads with full of blind-faith will be available in the society (which comprises 70% illiterate and 29.9% follower of these 70% due to count of heads) till then there is sufficient scope for cunning astrologers. And at the most we can see as to how they are being exploited like a hen that is being prepared for a meal. > > In this turbulent situation it is more then enough if we save our- selves from the storm of cheaters. > > Yours truly, > > Sanat > > On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 Avtar Krishen Kaul wrote : > >HinduCalendar, " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > ><jyotirved@ ...> wrote: > > > > > >Dear friends, > >Namaskar! > ><I am strictly against slandering of the ancient Puranas and the > >Vedas which is being done here, and my links tell me that here is a > >Kashmiri Pandit who is a Muslim converted into a Hindu Pundit for > >commercial purposes, but since no more business available now in > >Kashmir, he has got down to the rotten depths of slandering Hindus > >and their ancinet practises of yore have been given name of > >superstitions. > > > > >The Gita has said, " adharmam dharmam it ya-manyate tamsa-avrita > >sarvarthan vipareetanshchai, budhih sa paartha tamasi " > >i.e. > > " Know that intellect to be tamasi which considers adharma as dharma > >and also construes every thing in an entirely opposite sense " . > > > >I have asked all the jyotishis the world over to quote even a single > >sholka from any Veda, Purana or shastra that has advised us to > >consult some soothsayer before embarking on any plan. They have yet > >to cite even a single such " pramana " but still they want me to agree > >with them that the hocus pocus called " Vedic jyotish " is enshrined in > >our shastras! > > > >When asked as to why has the Mbh asked to treat a nakshatra-soochi > >brahmana as chandala, they claim ignorance! > > > >When asked to quote even a single mantra or sholka from any shastra > >that has advised us to believe in bhagya instead of karma, they just > >beat about the bush! > > > >When asked to give one good reason as to how the predictions of > >Varahamahira or Prithuyashas or Rama Dayalu or Kashi Nath or even > >Ganesha Daivajnya, for that matter, could be correct when the > >fundamental arguments of all such works as were being used for > >preparing panchangas till a hundred years back were monstrously > >wrong, they just mumble some abracdabra which makes no sense at all! > > > >When asked as to how could Lahri Ayanamsha be as per the shastras and > >how could Bhagwan Rama and Krishna have Incarnated in that > >Rashichakra, since Lahiri himself was not around more than a hundred > >years back, they again prattle something like " Chitra Ayanamsha " > >which itself proves that they do not know even ABC of astronomy! > > > >When asked as to why there are at least half a dozen ayanamshas > >floating around in " Vedic astrology " even today, if it has been > >practised by all the Rishis (sic!) inclduing Vamadeva ever since at > >least 5000 BCE---for the last 7000 years!---they claim that each > >jyotishi is free to choose any ayanamsha! > > > >When asked as to how the Narada Purana could give the same > >fundamental arguments about astronomy, inlcuding the Ayanamsha > >sholkas, as given in the Surya Sidhana of Maya the mlechha, unless it > >was an interpolation by soem good for nothing jyotishi, they just > >evade the issues! > > > >When asked as to how the Vishnudahrmottara- Purana could give these > >same planetary orbital elements etc. as given in Brahma-Sphuta- > >Sidhanta, unles it was plagiarism of the worst order, they just > >practise a studied silence! > > > >When asked as to how could Bhagwan Ram have incarnated in around 9000 > >BCE as per the so called planetary position in the Valmiki Ramayana > >since the same Valmiki Ramayana tells us that He ruled for 11000 > >years, they just avoid the topic! > > > >One jyotishi of " ancient Indian astrology " even " proved " that > >Bhagwan Ram had Incarnated as late (or as early!) as around 200 BCE > >as per the chart prepared by him from Shri Jagananatha Hora software-- > >-that has been prepared by the " master Vedic astrologer " - --the owner > >of " Vedic-astrology " of froum)! When confronted with the > >facts from NASA and Swiss Ephemeris programs that that the planetary > >longitudes etc. calculated by that software were basically and > >fundamentally wrong, that gentleman did not bother even to reply that > >post, leave alone infroming other members of the forum that he is > >moderating about the monstrostosity of that software! > > > >And, above all, when these jyotishis were asked as to why they are > >not following a Sayana Rashichakra for festivals and even their > >predictive gimmicks as that is the one given in all the Puranas > >including the Vishnu-Purana of Parashara Rishi, they have no answers, > >though they claim Brihat Parashara Hora Shastram to be a work of the > >same Parashara Rishi! > > > >And to confuse everybody about their motives of propagating mlechha > >jyotisha (which they call " Vedic astrology " ), they go to the depths > >of claiming " my links tell me that here is a Kashmiri Pandit who is a > >Muslim converted into a Hindu Pundit " ! > > > >I cannot resist the temptation of quoting a Persian couplet here--- > >much to the chagrin of these jyotishis, again!-- > > " ta marda sukhan na-gufta bashad, aib o hunarash nihufta bashad " > >i.e. > > " Unless someone says something, his positive and negative traits > >remain hidden " > >I am glad that these jyotishis have exposed their real " genetic code - > >-genome!) " themselves and thus made the job of every member easier to > >take them for what they are: Worse than Islamist fundamentalists who > >approach with the proposition with Koran in one hand and sword in > >another " choose either of the two " . These jyotishis also have a > >similar proposition: " Either you repeat with us 'Predictive gimmicks > >are Vedic astrology propounded by all our shastras, or else we dub > >you a Muslim convert " . > > > ><It seems he has got wealth from ancestors for eating 2 times food, > >therefore all the time in the world to talk rot and garbage about the > >Hindus.> > > > >As everybody knows by now, all these jyotishis are worried about is > >money, money, money! Because they have not read even the Gita-- just a > >work of 700 shlokas---as otherwise they would not have forgotten > > " ananyashchintayan to mam ye jana paryupasate > >tesham nitya yuktanam yoga kshemam vahami aham " > > > >I leave it to you to understand the meaning for yourself. > > > >Let me close this post with the famous motiff " yato dharmas tato > >jayah " --- " Where there is dharma, victory is there " . It is a dharma- > >yudha! And in spite of all these " Vedic astrologers " , billions upon > >billions of them---we will definitely be able to streamline our > >calendars! > >Regards, > >Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > > > >HinduCalendar, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > DearGopal Sharma, > > > > > > Here there are those Hindus who could have cut the heads of those > >who > > > talk rubbish of the Vedas, and the Puranas, and the great men of > > > yesteryears. I am one among those. I wish i was in power, and I > >would > > > have done justice straightaway. No courts, and no hearings for these > > > rascals who talk rubbush about the ancient Hindus and their > >practises. > > > Are you sure about yourself whether you are a sane real Hindu ? If > >so > > > then ask the members to leave the frorum, otherwise not. > > > > > > I am strictly against slandering of the anciient Puranas and the > >Vedas > > > which is being done here, and my links tell me that here is a > >Kashmiri > > > Pandit who is a Muslim converted into a Hindu Pundit for commercial > > > purposes, but since no more business available now in Kashmir, he > >has > > > got down to the rotten depths of slandering Hindus and their ancinet > > > practises of yore have been given name of superstitions. It seems > >he > > > has got wealth from ancestors for eating 2 times food, therefore > >all the > > > time in the world to talk rot and garbage about the Hindus. > > > > > > Why should we go from here ? > > > > > > Why not remove these dogs who are doing this, from existence ??? > > > > > > Bhaskaran . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, Gopal Sharma <gksv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > With the number of idiots being allowed by the Moderator of this > > > group..in the " name of free exchange of ideas " ..I disown this farce > > > group. > > > > Let all sane Hindus get away from this group. > > > > There is a saying never argue with an idiot....because he/she will > > > bring you down to his/her level..and you cannot compete with > >him/her at > > > that level..Bye. > > > > For me this group is spam now. > > > > Bye !!!! > > > > > > > > K Gopu kgopu_24@ wrote: It is quite strange that Sri arul seem to > > > accept only Modern day > > > > scientist and that to from a laboratory. whereas the same is said > > > > by ancient rishis in a different form it isnt acceptable because > > > ancient > > > > rishis have not worked scientific labs like the modern day > >scientist > > > >--- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post > Messages in this topic (3) > 1b. > > Fwd: Re: Eclipses and fear psychosis > Posted by: " Avtar Krishen Kaul " jyotirved  a_krishen > Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:39 am (PDT) > HinduCalendar, " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > <jyotirved@ ..> wrote: > > Shri K. Gopuji, > Namaskar! > It is said, " some people have infectious smiles " ! Some members of > this forum have a bad habit of twisting facts and that habit also is > infcetious! You also seem to have been " affected " by that habit! > > I can understand jyotishis squirming when being cornered but what I > cannot udnerstand is your following statement! > <<Still the unknown energies released from such phenomena is still > not known so it is advisable not to take risks of asking pregnant > women to go out during eclipse. It is better non-believers shud keep > their mouth shut and not venture into adventurous message abt eclipse > and challenging under the garb that scriptures like vedas have not > made any mention abt the same.> > > Is it that you have not read the last para of my post on the above > topic which reads > " Let us, therefore, enjoy the eclipses with certain precautions- -- > especially the solar ones and be one with Nature! " or is it that you > are deliberately ignoring it i.e. " with some precautions " so that the > other members feel they are being asked to " look at the eclipsed sun > with naked eyes " . > > You should know it that it is not scientists but tantriks and hatha- > yogis who are supposed to do " Tratak " on the risign sun and/or > setting sun and esepcially at the time of eclipses! If > some " neurosurgeon " has done it 35 years back, he must have been more > of a tantrik than a nuro-surgeon! > > The tragic fact is that most of the people who know facts " keep their > mouths shut " (as advised by you!)---most of them are just silent > spectators-- - and that encourages charlatans and phonies to spin > unending yarns about their astrological prowess! If you are so sure > about astrological portents of eclipses, can you quote, with proof, > even a single prediction about the specific effect of any eclipse > that has proved true till date---though eclipses have been going on > ever since the dawn of creation? Has any jyotishi ever predicted that > because of so and so eclipse, so and so state will have > floods/drought/ disaster at such and such day in such and such area? > Or has any jyotishis predicted that because of so and so eclipse so > and so government will be overthrown within so and so number of > days? Leave alone mundane affairs, has any astrologer predicted the > exact date of his/her own death correctly beforehand? > I may remind you here that the " greatest Vedic astrologer of the > twenetieth century " was going to deliver a lecture on " Astrology as a > tool of daiganosis for heart attacks " on Jnuary 3 of the ensuing year > in Hynerabad, but poor fellow passed away about twenty days before > taht " astrologically planned lecture " because of " cardiac arrest > (the topic on which he was going to lecture to the medical > fratenrity!) ! Tht is why we say in Kashmiri, " Peea kartam yariyah > yati paan yeeru asakh " ! i.e. " O' panditji/maulana, please pull me > out of that conflux of muddy waters where you are getting drowned > yourself " . If jyotishis cannot foresee their own future, how on > earth can they foresee someone else's? > > Then there are some members who claim to have read the MBh from cover > to cover to discuss the departure of Bhishma Pitamaha on the > Uttarayana, but when it comes to the same Mbh (Bhishma Parva, adhyaya > 3, verses 32) saying " I have heard about a fortnight of sixteen, > fifteen and even fourteen days, but never have I heard about a > fortnight of 13 days--Amavasya on Trayodashi-- -when the Sun and the > moon both are eclipsed together (hence I feel there is going to be a > calamity) " the same member wants us to refer to God-forsaken, good > for nothing and the most misleading and misguiding work viz. Atharva- > Veda-Parishsitha because some charlatan has named it as Atharva- Veda- > Parishishta and because that useless work has talked of the evil > consequences of an eclipse within fourteen days of the previous one! > He may as well ask us to refer to Alah-Upanishada- -because some > mlechha has coined the name as " Upanishada " . You can expect anything > from some jyotishis! They are no less than politicians- -- > prevarications on every step! > It is a strange logic on the part of these jyotishis that anybody > pointing out to the impossibilities of some sidhantic statements, > makes them pronounce " Vedas cannot be challenged " as if pinpointing > some fallacies in the jyotishis or their pet theories is challenging > the Vedas! But then these jyotishis consider themselves " modern > incarnations of Vamadevas " . The only way to show them their place is > just ignore them! > With regards, > AKK > HinduCalendar, K Gopu <kgopu_24@> wrote: > > > > dear member, > > > > 35years back one of the famous neuro surgeon Late dr.B.ramamurthi > of chennai came out > > > > with his views that solar eclipse can be viewed with naked eye and > that > > eclipses as no effect on the human system. people who viewed it > started > > getting vision problem within a year. Still the unknown energies > > released from such phenomena is still not known so it is advisable > not > > to take risks of asking pregnant women to go out during eclipse. > > > > It is better non- believers shud keep their mouth shut and not > venture > > into adventurous message abt eclipse and challenging under the garb > > that scriptures like vedas have not made any mention abt the same. > > > > > > > > good wishes, > > > > k.gopu > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 8/13/08, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a@> > wrote: > > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a@> > > Re: [HinduCalendar] Eclipses and fear psychosis > > HinduCalendar > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008, 11:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ask Avtarji. He quoted a report about some catastrophy. > > 1.  QUOTE > > Don't worry. Atharva veda parishishtha says it is disastrous only > if it occurs within 14 days. > > UNQUOTE Of what disasters should individuals (and nations) be > worried about if the eclipse were to occur within 14 days? > > > > Ask Avtarji. He quoted a report about some catastrophy. > >   2. Why are temples closed for > > many hours during days of eclipse?  Is it because that even the gods > > will be otherwise exposed to danger?   Temples then reopen for > special pujas! For what? Would it > > not be more meaningful for the temples to remain OPEN all day so > that > > people can be physically close to the gods during those hours of > danger? Kind of taking 'refuge' in the temples. > > > > Ask the temple authorities. It is their decision. > >   3. Tradition-bound > > mothers (-in-law) are said to worry about their pregnant daughters > > (-in-law), who are advised against venturing out during days > > of eclipse. I know of one case, many years back, of a working lady > > forced to stay away from office on one such day of eclipse.  Do > > the scriptures specify the risks that such ladies may be exposed > > to if they were to leave home on such days? > > > > > > > > As her who advised her to do so and on the basis of which > scripture. > > > > > > Arul T <arul_thilak@ > > > HinduCalendar > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008 3:16:11 AM > > Re: [HinduCalendar] Eclipses and fear psychosis > > > > Some quick questions: 1.  QUOTE > > Don't worry. Atharva veda parishishtha says it is disastrous only > if it occurs within 14 days. > > UNQUOTE Of what disasters should individuals (and nations) be > worried about if the eclipse were to occur within 14 days?  2. Why > > are temples closed for many hours during days of > > eclipse?  Is it because that even the gods will be otherwise > > exposed to danger?   Temples then reopen for special pujas! For > what? Would > > it not be more meaningful for the temples to remain OPEN > > all day so that people can be physically close to the gods during > > those hours of danger? Kind of taking 'refuge' in the temples.  3. > > Tradition-bound mothers (-in-law) are said to worry about their > > pregnant daughters (-in-law), who are advised against venturing > > out during days of eclipse. I know of one case, > > many years back, of a working lady forced to stay away from > > office on one such day of eclipse.  Do > > the scriptures specify the risks that such ladies may be exposed > > to if they were to leave home on such days?   > > --- On Wed, 13/8/08, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a > @> wrote: > > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a @> > > Re: [HinduCalendar] Eclipses and fear psychosis > > HinduCalendar > > Wednesday, 13 August, 2008, 1:36 AM > > > > Dear friends. > > > > Namskar, > > > > Don't worry. Atharva veda parishishtha says it is disastrous only > if it occurs within 14 > > days. > > > > Regards, > > > > skb > > > > > > > > > > jyotirved <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> > > To: > > HinduCalendar; @ . > com; > > Vedic Astrology- hyderabad; vedic_research_ > institute@ > > . com > > Tuesday, August 12, 2008 9:00:08 AM > > [HinduCalendar] Eclipses and fear psychosis > > > > Dear friends,Namaskar! As > > is common knowledge by now, there is going to be a lunar eclipse on > > August 16 after the Solar eclipse of August 1. Naturally, TV > > channels are abuzz with the news that as one eclipse follows > another, > > it will be catastrophic not only for the nation as a whole but > > everybody individually as well!  A saying in Hindi is repeated > very often these days by these jyotishis and that saying > > is: " ek > > paakh main do grahna, mare raja ya mare sena " i.e. " if there are two > > eclipses in one fortnight, either the king dies or his soldiers > > die " . Some even twist it as " Ek paksha main do grahna, na rahe > > raja na sena " i.e " if there are two eclipses in one fortnight, both > > the king as well his army will be wiped out! "  There > > are also references to " ghasrapksha " in the Mahabharata. It talks > > of a paksha of thirteen days when one eclipse had followed > > another. It is presumed that because of those two eclipses in one > > paksha (fortnight), the Mbh war took place and/or the " Yadu-kula " > > became defunct!  It all shows how ignorant we are actually about > basic astronomical/ geographical facts!  The > > fact of the matter is that every year, without fail, there will be > at > > least two solar eclipses! It just cannot be helped! But > > there can never be more than five solar eclipses in a year!  > There > > can be a maximum of three lunar eclipses in a year! WHAT IS TO BE > > NOTED IS THAT WHENEVER THERE IS A LUNAR ECLIPSE IT IS ALWAYS EITHER > > PRECEDED OR FOLLOWED BY A SOLAR ECLIPSE! A lunar eclipse can > > never take place without a solar eclipse either preceding or > following > > it.  Sometimes, it is three eclipses in succession: solar > > eclipse---lunar eclipse---solar eclipse!   So > > instead of explaining the fact that there is nothing extraordinary > > about a solar eclipse following a lunar one, all that is being > dinned > > into our ears is that there is going to be a catastrophe! But > > these jyotishis are never specific as to what type of catastrophe it > > will be where it will be and when it will be!  By > > analyzing the statements of jyotishis, we arrive at the conclusion > >  that since there will always be two eclipses whenever there is a > > lunar eclipse, which will be almost every year, thus there is going > to > > be a catastrophe for the nations as a whole and also individuals > > individually every year in future! It is also really amazing that > > in spite of such dire " results " of eclipses the mankind is still > > surviving, since there have been literally thousands of lunar > eclipses > > in the past which means there were thousands of pairs of lunar and > > solar eclipses till date!  Obviously, the only catastrophe the > nations have is the catastrophe- mongering jyotishis!  Regarding > > thirteen day paksha of the MBh, in ancient India , only mean tithis > > were calculated. And it appears that MBh tithis were calculated > > as per the principles enumerated in the Vedanga Jyotisha. So if > > it was a paksha of thirteen days during the MBh war,  it is not > > clear as to which tithis were kshyaya, because only when two tithes > are > > kshyaya,  it can be thirteen days instead of fifteen days in > > a paksha .  However, > > I checked the details of eclipses on NASA website for 3200 BCE to > 1500 > > BCE. There have been at least a hundred eclipses during that > > period that have followed one another within thirteen days! Does > > it mean that there have been at least a hundred Mbh wars during that > > period, if another eclipse during a span of thirteen days denotes > > nothing but bloodshed!  All > > this noise about one calamity following another because of the two > > eclipses being in succession, is as such, as per the " commandments " > >  of Varahamihira, whose main aim was to provide " job security " to > > the people of his clan, since he had advised that " every king must > have > > a samvatsarika " ---even if he had no commander in chief or Prime > > Minister!  And > > he has succeeded well in his efforts! Whether or not anybody > > suffers from some catastrophe because of eclipses, jyotishis are > making > > us suffer certainly but they are themselves enjoying a bonanza! > > They are busy with performing pujas and remedial measures for their > > clients ny having created fear psychosis and thus fattening their > bank > > balances by fleecing the gullible! There is a saying in Persian, > > " Murda jannat ravad ya ba dozakh, mula ra naan-o-paneer " †" > i.e. " whether > > the departed soul goes to hell or heaven, it is immaterial for the > > priest/mullah performing the ceremonies for the dead! All he is > > bothered about is his bread and butter " .  Let > > us, therefore, enjoy the eclipses with certain precautions- > > --especially the solar ones and be one with Nature! That is the > > most befitting reply to these catastrophe- mongers. > > With regards, Avtar Krishen Kaul   > > > > New Email names for you! > > > > Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and > @rocketmail. > > > > Hurry before someone else does! > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post > Messages in this topic (3) > > > > Recent Activity > > >  2 > New MembersVisit Your Group > > > Ads on > Learn more now. > Reach customers > searching for you. > > Curves on > A group for women > to share & discuss > food & weight loss. > > Change your life > with > balance nutrition, > activity & well-being. > > > Need to Reply? 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