Fwd: [Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad] Eclipses and fear psychosis

[Guest guest]

Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad , dushyant trivedi

<trivedi20 wrote:

 

       Dear  Avtar Krishen Kaul,

 

 

      A very nice write up which is an eye-opener to the Gullible. Of

course we really need to do research on Astrology as is being done in

the west. The group is just doing that.

 

      D D TRIVEDI

 

 

--- On Tue, 8/12/08, jyotirved <jyotirved wrote:

 

jyotirved <jyotirved

[Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad] Eclipses and fear psychosis

HinduCalendar ,

, Vedic Astrology-

hyderabad , vedic_research_institute

Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 9:30 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear friends,

Namaskar!

 

As is common knowledge by now, there is going to be a lunar eclipse

on August 16 after the Solar eclipse of August 1.  Naturally, TV

channels are abuzz with the news that as one eclipse follows another,

it will be catastrophic not only for the nation as a whole but

everybody individually as well!

 

A saying in Hindi is repeated very often these days by these

jyotishis and that saying is:

" ek paakh main do grahna, mare raja ya mare sena " i.e. " if there are

two eclipses in one fortnight, either the king dies or his soldiers

die " .  Some even twist it as " Ek paksha main do grahna, na rahe raja

na sena " i.e " if there are two eclipses in one fortnight, both the

king as well his army will be wiped out! "

 

There are also references to " ghasrapksha " in the Mahabharata.  It

talks of a paksha of thirteen days when one eclipse had followed

another.  It is presumed that because of those two eclipses in one

paksha (fortnight), the Mbh war took place and/or the " Yadu-kula "

became defunct!

 

It all shows how ignorant we are actually about basic astronomical/

geographical facts!

 

The fact of the matter is that every year, without fail, there will

be at least two solar eclipses!  It just cannot be helped!  But there

can never be more than five solar eclipses in a year!

 

There can be a maximum of three lunar eclipses in a year!  WHAT IS TO

BE NOTED IS THAT WHENEVER THERE IS A LUNAR ECLIPSE IT IS ALWAYS

EITHER PRECEDED OR FOLLOWED BY A SOLAR ECLIPSE!  A lunar eclipse can

never take place without a solar eclipse either preceding or

following it.   Sometimes, it is three eclipses in succession: solar

eclipse---lunar eclipse---solar eclipse!

 

 

So instead of explaining the fact that there is nothing extraordinary

about a solar eclipse following a lunar one, all that is being dinned

into our ears is that there is going to be a catastrophe!  But these

jyotishis are never specific as to what type of catastrophe it will

be where it will be and when it will be! 

 

By analyzing the statements of jyotishis, we arrive at the

conclusion  that since there will always be two eclipses whenever

there is a lunar eclipse, which will be almost every year, thus there

is going to be a catastrophe for the nations as a whole and also

individuals individually every year in future!  It is also really

amazing that in spite of such dire " results " of eclipses the mankind

is still surviving, since there have been literally thousands of

lunar eclipses in the past which means there were thousands of pairs

of lunar and solar eclipses till date!

 

Obviously, the only catastrophe the nations have is the catastrophe-

mongering jyotishis!

 

Regarding thirteen day paksha of the MBh, in ancient India , only

mean tithis were calculated.  And it appears that MBh tithis were

calculated as per the principles enumerated in the Vedanga Jyotisha. 

So if it was a paksha of thirteen days during the MBh war,  it is not

clear as to which tithis were kshyaya, because only when two tithes

are kshyaya,  it can be thirteen days instead of fifteen days in  a

paksha .

 

However, I checked the details of eclipses on NASA website for 3200

BCE to 1500 BCE.  There have been at least a hundred eclipses during

that period that have followed one another within thirteen days! 

Does it mean that there have been at least a hundred Mbh wars during

that period, if another eclipse during a span of thirteen days

denotes nothing but bloodshed!

 

All this noise about one calamity following another because of the

two eclipses being in succession, is as such, as per

the " commandments "  of Varahamihira, whose main aim was to

provide " job security " to the people of his clan, since he had

advised that " every king must have a samvatsarika " ---even if he had

no commander in chief or Prime Minister!

 

And he has succeeded well in his efforts!  Whether or not anybody

suffers from some catastrophe because of eclipses, jyotishis are

making us suffer certainly but they are themselves enjoying a

bonanza!  They are busy with performing pujas and remedial measures

for their clients ny having created fear psychosis and thus fattening

their bank balances by fleecing the gullible!  There is a saying in

Persian, " Murda jannat ravad ya ba dozakh, mula ra naan-o-paneer " —

i.e. " whether the departed soul goes to hell or heaven, it is

immaterial for the priest/mullah performing the ceremonies for the

dead!  All he is bothered about is his bread and butter " .

 

Let us, therefore, enjoy the eclipses with certain precautions- --

especially the solar ones and be one with Nature!  That is the most

befitting reply to these catastrophe- mongers.

With regards,

Avtar Krishen Kaul

 

 

 

--- End forwarded message ---

[Guest guest]

vedic_research_institute , " koenraad_elst "

<koenraad.elst wrote:

 

vedic_research_institute , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved@> wrote:

> --- On Tue, 8/12/08, jyotirved <jyotirved@> wrote:

>

 

> As is common knowledge by now, there is going to be a lunar eclipse

> on August 16 after the Solar eclipse of August 1.  Naturally, TV

> channels are abuzz with the news that as one eclipse follows

another,

> it will be catastrophic not only for the nation as a whole but

> everybody individually as well!

>  

> A saying in Hindi is repeated very often these days by these

> jyotishis and that saying is:

> " ek paakh main do grahna, mare raja ya mare sena " i.e. " if there

are

> two eclipses in one fortnight, either the king dies or his soldiers

> die " .  Some even twist it as " Ek paksha main do grahna, na rahe

raja

> na sena " i.e " if there are two eclipses in one fortnight, both the

> king as well his army will be wiped out! "

>  

> There are also references to " ghasrapksha " in the Mahabharata.  It

> talks of a paksha of thirteen days when one eclipse had followed

> another.  It is presumed that because of those two eclipses in one

> paksha (fortnight), the Mbh war took place and/or the " Yadu-kula "

> became defunct!

>

 

The Parashara Samhita is nearly contemporaneous with the Mahabharata

events (15th-14th century BC) and it contains the key to

understanding this prediction. It contains nothing like " Vedic

astrology " , i.e. sanskritized Hellenistic astrology, but it does

contain omen astrology of the kind also found in the same period in

Mesopotamia. The whole of omen astrology can be summarized in just

two rules: (1) evil is predicted by unclear heavenly configurations,

and (2) evil is predicted by configurations violating the cosmic

order. The first one explains why astrologers consider stars or

constellations with relatively little visibility (e.g. Cancer) or

with unstable visibility (e.g. Algol) or with " eclipsed " visibility

(e.g. Mercury or Venus or other planets when close to the sun) as

inauspicious. The second one explains the Mahabharata prediction.

 

The diviner (Vyasa, I believe) says that he has never seen two

eclipses in just thirteen days, and now that it happens, it must

predict bad fortune. This is because of his experience that the time

lapse is always 14 or 15 days. However, he was deceived by the

limitations on his experience: he just hadn't lived long enough to

become familiar with the regularity of the admittedly rare but

nonetheless perfectly regular phenomenon of an eclipse succeeding

another in less than 14 x 24 hours. This is simply the low end of a

regular cycle in which that time lapse varies from just under 14 days

to just over 15 days. It returns every ca. 6 years, yet one can fail

to see one for decades because an observer limited to his own place

on earth (not yet receiving satellite-relayed images e.g. from the

latest solar eclipse in Siberia) would see only a small percentage of

the recurring solar eclipses. Unlike lunar eclipses, which are seen

wherever the moon is above the horizon (half the earth), solar

eclipses are local and seen in only a small part of the earth's

surface. If one counts not from eclipse to eclipse but simply from

lunation to lunation, one will find the lapse of less than 14 days

more frequently, but then that's less spectacular and less inviting

to systematic observation.

 

 

> It all shows how ignorant we are actually about basic astronomical/

> geographical facts!

>  

> The fact of the matter is that every year, without fail, there will

> be at least two solar eclipses!<

 

Considered over the whole earth, yes. Considered for a single site,

no.

 

 

> WHAT IS TO

> BE NOTED IS THAT WHENEVER THERE IS A LUNAR ECLIPSE IT IS ALWAYS

> EITHER PRECEDED OR FOLLOWED BY A SOLAR ECLIPSE!  A lunar eclipse

can

> never take place without a solar eclipse either preceding or

> following it.<

 

Considered over the whole earth, yes. Considered for a single site,

no.

 

>    

> Regarding thirteen day paksha of the MBh, in ancient India , only

> mean tithis were calculated.<

 

There's no need for that. It doesn't follow from the MBh report,

which doesn't require tithis to make perfect sense.

 

>  And it appears that MBh tithis were

> calculated as per the principles enumerated in the Vedanga

Jyotisha. 

> So if it was a paksha of thirteen days during the MBh war,  it is

not

> clear as to which tithis were kshyaya, because only when two tithes

> are kshyaya,  it can be thirteen days instead of fifteen days in  a

> paksha .

>  

 

Non-Hindu astronomers don't use tithis and they can perfectly well

calculate that some eclipse periods are less than 14 days.

 

 

> However, I checked the details of eclipses on NASA website for 3200

> BCE to 1500 BCE.  There have been at least a hundred eclipses

during

> that period that have followed one another within thirteen days!<

 

Not when observed from a single site. Ca. 75 should already be

subtracted because in one of the two eclipses the eclipsed sun or

moon will be below the horizon. That leaves " at least 25 " . Further,

the MBh star-gazer and omen-reader didn't live for 1700 years but

only 1/20 of that time at the very best. So that leaves less than 2.

Prediction of eclipses wasn't very accurate yet, so on some occasions

he wouldn't have busied himself with observation, missing a partial

eclipse on a cloudy day that didn't darken the sky enough to draw the

attention. And then I haven't even mentioned that the majority of

over-the-horizon solar eclipses would be seen in Siberia this year,

in Australia the next, in India another year, thus again reducing the

likelihood for any given observer of actually seeing a succession of

two eclipses in less than 14 days.

 

 

> Does it mean that there have been at least a hundred Mbh wars

during

> that period, if another eclipse during a span of thirteen days

> denotes nothing but bloodshed!<

>  

 

Of course not. What it means is that a diviner in the 2nd millennium

BC saw this sequence as an aberration from the cosmic order (deemed

to " prescribe " 14 or 15 days, not less than 14) and therefore an omen

of disorderly things to come: palace revolution, pestilence, birth of

malformed creatures, war.

 

Dear Avtar Krishan Kaul, your fiery zeal to root out astrology is

making you overlook hot information provided by astrologers, such as

the diviner practising embryonic astrology in the MBh. His

observations are a great help in dating the events and explain the

beliefs that helped create a war psychosis.

 

Kind regards,

 

KE

 

--- End forwarded message ---

[Guest guest]

vedic_research_institute , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

 

Dear Dr. Elst,

As usual, your post is highly interesting! Let mt try to

recapitulate and then elaborate some of the points raised by you:

 

<The Parashara Samhita is nearly contemporaneous with the Mahabharata

events (15th-14th century BC) and it contains the key to

understanding this prediction.>

 

I have my doubts that Parshara of Parshara Samhita and Krishna

Dvaipayana Vyasa of the Mbh were contemporaneous. The Mbh has talked

of planets vis-à-vis nakshatras hundreds of times and it appears that

most of them were after-thoughts. Parshara Samhita is very clumsy

about orbital elements of even Mercury whereas the Mbh appears to

have a better grasp of the planets.

 

<It contains nothing like " Vedic astrology " , i.e. sanskritized

Hellenistic astrology, but it does

contain omen astrology of the kind also found in the same period in

Mesopotamia. >

 

Yes, it does not contain anything like " Vedic astrology " . For that

matter, no other work contains anything about " Vedic astrology " ,

which is actually Hellenistic astrology, since we do not find any

references to any Mesha etc. rashis in any of the Pre-Surya Sidhanta

works including the Vedanga Jyotisha or even Atharva-Jyotisha or the

Atharva-Veda-Parishishta!

 

<The whole of omen astrology can be summarized in just

two rules: (1) evil is predicted by unclear heavenly configurations,

and (2) evil is predicted by configurations violating the cosmic

order. The first one explains why astrologers consider stars or

constellations with relatively little visibility (e.g. Cancer) or

with unstable visibility (e.g. Algol) or with " eclipsed " visibility

(e.g. Mercury or Venus or other planets when close to the sun) as

inauspicious. The second one explains the Mahabharata prediction. >

 

The " omen astrology " could be an independent development in India,

unrelated to other parts of the world. We do find mention of

eclipses in the Rig-Veda but I do not remember having read of any

dire consequences accompanying that eclipse.

 

" Omen astrology " ---what I call fear psychosis---appears to be a post-

Vedic development, maybe even a post Vedanga Jyotisha development,

since there is no mention of any methodology of calculating eclipses

in that work either! There is a remote possibility that some other

astronomical tract did exist at that point of time for the

calculation of eclipses etc., but if the Veanga Jyotisha itself

cannot be relied upon---by modern standards, of course!--for

calculating tithi etc. properly, it is a moot point as to how

accurate the astronomical predictions of eclipses could be as per

that " other " literature, if it ever existed then.

 

Regarding " nakshatras " , the Vedas are full of references to them and

they did play a definitive role in muhurta-shastra, to the extent

that some nights have been totally discarded as " jaganya "

(despicable) for starting any rituals. It appears the lunar sojourn

in different nakshatras did have a lot of say in such matters but not

to the exclusion of seasons! We do not, however, find any reference

to any solar sojourn in any nakshatra though a Vedic mantra

(Yajurveda) tells us " brihaspatih tishyam ajayata " i.e. " Brihaspati

was born in Tishya " .

 

< The diviner (Vyasa, I believe) says that he has never seen two

eclipses in just thirteen days, and now that it happens, it must

predict bad fortune. This is because of his experience that the time

lapse is always 14 or 15 days. However, he was deceived by the

limitations on his experience: he just hadn't lived long enough to

become familiar with the regularity of the admittedly rare but

nonetheless perfectly regular phenomenon of an eclipse succeeding

another in less than 14 x 24 hours. This is simply the low end of a

regular cycle in which that time lapse varies from just under 14 days

to just over 15 days. It returns every ca. 6 years, yet one can fail

to see one for decades because an observer limited to his own place

on earth (not yet receiving satellite-relayed images e.g. from the

latest solar eclipse in Siberia) would see only a small percentage of

the recurring solar eclipses. Unlike lunar eclipses, which are seen

wherever the moon is above the horizon (half the earth), solar

eclipses are local and seen in only a small part of the earth's

surface. If one counts not from eclipse to eclipse but simply from

lunation to lunation, one will find the lapse of less than 14 days

more frequently, but then that's less spectacular and less inviting

to systematic observation.>

 

The actual shloka of the Mbh, Bhishma Parva 3/32 says, " I have heard

about a paksha of 16 tithis, 15 tithis and even 14 tithis (tihis are

not days in mean solar time!). But I have never heard of a paksha of

13 tithis, when the New Moon (Amavasya) falls on Trayodashi " . This

is called a " kshyaya paksha " and that is why the Mbh calls it

a " Vishva ghasra paksha " -- " a fortnight that could devour the whole

world " . Prior to that shloka in Bhishma Parva, chapter 3, we find

that a lunar eclipse had taken place on the Kartika full-Moon and the

solar eclipse on the next new moon day.

I checked the calculations as per the Vedanga Jyotisha but as per the

mean motion of the sun and the moon of that work, it is impossible

that any paksha could/can have only thirteen tithis! Similarly, even

as per the mean motion of the sun and the moon according to modern

astronomy, we can never get a paksha of thirteen tithis!

S B Dikshit has said in his " Bharatiya Jyotisha Shastra " -- page 114

that such a paksha could be obtained as per the calculations of the

Surya Sidhanta and other sidhantas---by getting the true longitudes

of the sun and the moon.

To me it appears thus that some back calculation has been

interpolated in the Mbh on the basis of the Surya Sidhanta or some

other sidhanta, to make a paksha of thirteen tithis!

However, astronomically, it is possible that there can be two

eclipses within thirteen days---and even thirteen tithis---which will

be clarified shortly!…quot;both eclipses being visible at one and the

same

location.

 

Several years back a Western nirayana astrologer had given the

details of about a hundred pairs of eclipses between BCE 3200 and BCE

2000 visible from Kurukshetra in the " Astrological Magazine " . He had

culled the details from NASA/JPL site. I cross-checked it there and

after eliminating some eclipses that were of a very small magnitude,

I could at least find about 50 such pairs of eclipses at Kurukshetra

that were really visible during that period.

Thus it appears that while the Veda-Vyasa was right when he had said

that two eclipses took place in one paksha, it appears that either he

had meant that there could not be a New Moon on the thirteenth tithi

itself (trayodashi), or it is an interpolation by some sidhantic

calculation to make it thirteen tithis instead of thirteen days! It

is also possible that during recitations, the " thirteen days " have

got changed to " thirteen tithis " .

 

A bit of clarification about tithis and days is necessary here for a

layman! A day is usually a mean solar day of 24 hours of mean solar

time whereas a tithi is a synodic day which is one-thirtieth of a

synodic month---the number of days between one New Moon and another.

The duration of synodic month these days is 29 days 12 hrs 44 mts

approximately which means on an average, the duration of a tithi can

be only 23 hrs 22 mts and 11 seconds approximately. Thus thirteen

tithis could mean that the total duration in Mean solar time was 303

hrs 48 mts 25 seconds i.e. 12.66 days as against 312 hours of mean

solar days of 13 days. Sometimes a tithi can last only for 21 hours

42 whereas at other times it can stretch to 26 hours and 30

minutes! However, there can never be just thirteen tithis in a

paksha astronomically! They have to be fifteen…quot;and that also

will be

clarified shortly!

Because the lunar motion/speed never remains uniform between one New

Moon and another, it is just possible that fifteen tithis sometimes

could get collapsed in about 13 mean solar days! Then again, in

India, a day ranges from one sunrise to another, which makes it

easier for tithis to become " kshaya " . When we say a tithi is kshyaya

i.e " decayed " , it does not actually vanish into thin air but what it

means is that a particular tithi started after one sunrise but ended

before another sunrise! Thus if the duration of the day (between one

sunrise and another) is 25 hours, as is the case in Summer in

Kurukshetra, and even if the duration of tithi is twenty-four hours

and it " vanishes " between two sunrises, it will be a " kshyaya "

tithi. It is just possible that such an phenomenon did take place

during the Mbh war when three tithis became " kshyaya " . Though it

was/is very unusual, but that does not mean that it is not possible

astronomically. Thus even if a paksha is “kshayana†as happened

during the Mbh war, it just means that the soli-lunar distance of

180 days got covered in 13 mean solar days---though there were

actually fifteen tithes but two tithes became “kshyaya†as the began

after one sunrise but ended before another sunrise.

 

In the passing, we may clarify that an adhika tithi can occur even if

it is for less than its average duration i.e. 23 hrs. 22 mts. For

example, for the same Kurukshetra, the duration of the day i.e. mean

solar time between one sunrise and another is usually less than 23

hours, and if one tithi started a couple of minutes before sunrise on

one day and it lasted beyond the next sunrise, it was an adhika

tithi! That is why we have sometimes seventeen tithis in a paksha

for some areas---though that is not a very frequent phenomenon either!

So according to Veda Vyasa, Amavasya on Trayodashi was really a very

very infrequent phenomenon, especially if there was a solar eclipse

on that Amavasya!

 

<Dear Avtar Krishan Kaul, your fiery zeal to root out astrology is

making you overlook hot information provided by astrologers, such as

the diviner practising embryonic astrology in the MBh.>

 

Dear Koenraad Elst, what makes me uneasy about this “embryonic

astrology†is that because of the selfish motives of " Vedic

astrologers " we are trying to read into such works as the Mbh, the

Valmiki Ramayana etc. such phenomena as portends of evils as

portrayed by our Maharshis! That gives an easy handle to soothsayers

and palmists and Tarot-walas and numerologists etc. etc. to coerce

and convince the majority that that was the practice with our Rishis

like Vyasa and Valmiki and these " modern Vamadevas " and " Parasharas "

are just propagating that very tradition! Some people have even

tried to interpret the very first mantra of the Rig-Veda i.e. " Agnim

eede purohitam... " as meaning that that mantra has advised us to have

a purohita and " purohita " according to them means, " One who can

foresee the future benefits of the yajamana " .---what you would

call “embryonic astrologyâ€. In other words, they just want us to

follow the advice of Varahamihira that a king to have " samvatsarika

(purohita!) " (whether or not he had a Commander-in-chief or a

Minister)!

The reason as to why those scholars are advising us to have

a " purohita " is only because they are getting grants from

organizations which do not want to give any funds to any such person

who does not fall in line with their way of propagating the Vedas---

and according to such institutions, propagation of Vedic astrology is

the only way to propagate the Vedas! “Paapi pet ka saval haiâ€-

 

Let me ask you one question: Even if we admit that there was

embryonic astrology in the Mbh, does it mean that we should " advance "

it at the cost of everything else?

Secondly, maybe because there was such embryonic astrology during the

time of the Mbh, that is why Bhishma Pitamaha has come down very

heavily on nakshatra-soochis: He had advised Yudishthira to treat a

nakshatra-soochi Brahmana as chandala! So we must also follow

Bhishma's advice! Instead of honuring these " nakshatra-soochis " we

must treat them as outcastes, since they have completely uprooted the

real Vedic dharma with the result that because of this fraud known

as " Vedic astrology " , we are celebrating all our festivals and

muhurtas on wrong days!

 

< His observations are a great help in dating the events and explain

the beliefs that helped create a war psychosis. >

 

I do not agree with you on this point as well! On the basis of these

very planetary positions in the Mbh, the overseas " Vamadeva " had said

in an old issue of the Astrological Magazine that the Mbh war took

place in around 1300 BCE! And then we find scholars telling us that

it could have taken place anywhere between 1400 BCE and 3300 BCE---

And all these scholars are using " modern astronomy " to check and

cross-check the positions of planets vis-à-vis nakshatras as given in

the Mbh! They are thus making confusion worst confounded!

 

Similarly, just on the basis of planetary combinations as given in

one and the only Valmiki Ramayana, " Vedic astrologers " are giving us

dates of Bhagwan Ram's incarnation right from 200 BCE to 9000 BCE!

One " his holiness " of the " art of something " has also put his stamp

of approval on the date of birth of Bhagwan Ram being January 14,

5114 BCE, which has been " calculated " by an Income-Tax Commissioner!

 

I have no idea as to how and why that " his holiness of the art of

something " has overlooked the sholkas of the Valmiki Ramayana which

says that Bhagwan Ram ruled for 11000 years! Or it could be that

that " his holiness of the art of something " has not even read the

Valmiki Ramayana himself but just went by " the report of the ITC " .

 

As such, instead of giving us any dates of the actual dates of the

Mbh war or of Ravana-Rama-yudha, they are all the more confusing us,

just to prove their " jyotish prowess " .

 

I hope all the points raised by you have got clarified!

With regards,

Avtar

 

vedic_research_institute , " koenraad_elst "

<koenraad.elst@> wrote:

>

> vedic_research_institute , " Avtar Krishen

Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > --- On Tue, 8/12/08, jyotirved <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> ?

> > As is common knowledge by now, there is going to be a lunar

eclipse

> > on August 16 after the Solar eclipse of August 1.? Naturally, TV

> > channels are abuzz with the news that as one eclipse follows

> another,

> > it will be catastrophic not only for the nation as a whole but

> > everybody individually as well!

> > ?

> > A saying in Hindi is repeated very often these days by these

> > jyotishis and that saying is:

> > " ek paakh main do grahna, mare raja ya mare sena " i.e. " if there

> are

> > two eclipses in one fortnight, either the king dies or his

soldiers

> > die " .? Some even twist it as " Ek paksha main do grahna, na rahe

> raja

> > na sena " i.e " if there are two eclipses in one fortnight, both

the

> > king as well his army will be wiped out! "

> > ?

> > There are also references to " ghasrapksha " in the Mahabharata.?

It

> > talks of a paksha of thirteen days when one eclipse had followed

> > another.? It is presumed that because of those two eclipses in

one

> > paksha (fortnight), the Mbh war took place and/or the " Yadu-kula "

> > became defunct!

> >

>

> The Parashara Samhita is nearly contemporaneous with the

Mahabharata

> events (15th-14th century BC) and it contains the key to

> understanding this prediction. It contains nothing like " Vedic

> astrology " , i.e. sanskritized Hellenistic astrology, but it does

> contain omen astrology of the kind also found in the same period in

> Mesopotamia. The whole of omen astrology can be summarized in just

> two rules: (1) evil is predicted by unclear heavenly

configurations,

> and (2) evil is predicted by configurations violating the cosmic

> order. The first one explains why astrologers consider stars or

> constellations with relatively little visibility (e.g. Cancer) or

> with unstable visibility (e.g. Algol) or with " eclipsed " visibility

> (e.g. Mercury or Venus or other planets when close to the sun) as

> inauspicious. The second one explains the Mahabharata prediction.

>

> The diviner (Vyasa, I believe) says that he has never seen two

> eclipses in just thirteen days, and now that it happens, it must

> predict bad fortune. This is because of his experience that the

time

> lapse is always 14 or 15 days. However, he was deceived by the

> limitations on his experience: he just hadn't lived long enough to

> become familiar with the regularity of the admittedly rare but

> nonetheless perfectly regular phenomenon of an eclipse succeeding

> another in less than 14 x 24 hours. This is simply the low end of a

> regular cycle in which that time lapse varies from just under 14

days

> to just over 15 days. It returns every ca. 6 years, yet one can

fail

> to see one for decades because an observer limited to his own place

> on earth (not yet receiving satellite-relayed images e.g. from the

> latest solar eclipse in Siberia) would see only a small percentage

of

> the recurring solar eclipses. Unlike lunar eclipses, which are seen

> wherever the moon is above the horizon (half the earth), solar

> eclipses are local and seen in only a small part of the earth's

> surface. If one counts not from eclipse to eclipse but simply from

> lunation to lunation, one will find the lapse of less than 14 days

> more frequently, but then that's less spectacular and less inviting

> to systematic observation.

>

> ?

> > It all shows how ignorant we are actually about basic

astronomical/

> > geographical facts!

> > ?

> > The fact of the matter is that every year, without fail, there

will

> > be at least two solar eclipses!<

>

> Considered over the whole earth, yes. Considered for a single site,

> no.

>

> ?

> > WHAT IS TO

> > BE NOTED IS THAT WHENEVER THERE IS A LUNAR ECLIPSE IT IS ALWAYS

> > EITHER PRECEDED OR FOLLOWED BY A SOLAR ECLIPSE!? A lunar eclipse

> can

> > never take place without a solar eclipse either preceding or

> > following it.<

>

> Considered over the whole earth, yes. Considered for a single site,

> no.

>

> > ? ?

> > Regarding thirteen day paksha of the MBh, in ancient India , only

> > mean tithis were calculated.<

>

> There's no need for that. It doesn't follow from the MBh report,

> which doesn't require tithis to make perfect sense.

>

> >? And it appears that MBh tithis were

> > calculated as per the principles enumerated in the Vedanga

> Jyotisha.?

> > So if it was a paksha of thirteen days during the MBh war, ?it is

> not

> > clear as to which tithis were kshyaya, because only when two

tithes

> > are kshyaya, ?it can be thirteen days instead of fifteen days in?

a

> > paksha .

> > ?

>

> Non-Hindu astronomers don't use tithis and they can perfectly well

> calculate that some eclipse periods are less than 14 days.

>

>

> > However, I checked the details of eclipses on NASA website for

3200

> > BCE to 1500 BCE.? There have been at least a hundred eclipses

> during

> > that period that have followed one another within thirteen days!<

>

> Not when observed from a single site. Ca. 75 should already be

> subtracted because in one of the two eclipses the eclipsed sun or

> moon will be below the horizon. That leaves " at least 25 " . Further,

> the MBh star-gazer and omen-reader didn't live for 1700 years but

> only 1/20 of that time at the very best. So that leaves less than

2.

> Prediction of eclipses wasn't very accurate yet, so on some

occasions

> he wouldn't have busied himself with observation, missing a partial

> eclipse on a cloudy day that didn't darken the sky enough to draw

the

> attention. And then I haven't even mentioned that the majority of

> over-the-horizon solar eclipses would be seen in Siberia this year,

> in Australia the next, in India another year, thus again reducing

the

> likelihood for any given observer of actually seeing a succession

of

> two eclipses in less than 14 days.

>

> ?

> > Does it mean that there have been at least a hundred Mbh wars

> during

> > that period, if another eclipse during a span of thirteen days

> > denotes nothing but bloodshed!<

> > ?

>

> Of course not. What it means is that a diviner in the 2nd

millennium

> BC saw this sequence as an aberration from the cosmic order (deemed

> to " prescribe " 14 or 15 days, not less than 14) and therefore an

omen

> of disorderly things to come: palace revolution, pestilence, birth

of

> malformed creatures, war.

>

> Dear Avtar Krishan Kaul, your fiery zeal to root out astrology is

> making you overlook hot information provided by astrologers, such

as

> the diviner practising embryonic astrology in the MBh. His

> observations are a great help in dating the events and explain the

> beliefs that helped create a war psychosis.

>

> Kind regards,

>

> KE

>

 

--- End forwarded message ---