[Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad] Fwd: Astrology a science or myth

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Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad , Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

 

Dear Avatar Krishen Saheb,

 

If you are so certain that Vedic astrology is a hoax, why do you want

to

convince others that it has nothing to do with Vedas? Jyotish is

called

Vedanga whether you like it or not and that is a fact. Talking about

astrologers gimmicks, as you call predictive astrology, as disrespect

to

Vedic seer and in the same breath saying that Jyotish has noting to

do

with Vedas as Mesha and grahas are not mentioned in Vedas is

contradictory to say the least. Your one point agenda seems to be to

criticize astrology practiced in India, for reasons best know to you.

 

I do not find you now a days claiming to be president/chairman of

calendar reforms committee (formed in 1957) that you used to do,

earlier

on other jyotish lists, despite of the fact that that committee was

disolved long before and it never mentioned you as its

president/chairman or even member. May be members on this do not of

your

claim but I have read you saying this on many lists. I remember that

when I asked about this anomaly on one list you disappeared from the

list. So for the benefit of members I want to bring certain facts to

light about National calendar reform Committee.

 

It was Meghnad Saha who was the chairman of that committee, other

members being A. C. Banerjee, K. K. Daftari, J. S. Karandikar, Gorakh

Prasad, R. V. Vaidya and N. C. Lahiri. Your name does not appear on

the

Vigyan prasar.gov.in site. I would not have mentioned this but it

seems

that your sole agenda is to call names to the divine science and try

to

prove that even the dates of observation of various rituals are wrong.

 

I wish to paste a link that gives information about the original

Calendar reform committee. I am sure the learned will draw their own

inference about the rationale or otherwise of your various

arguments.

1) http://www.vigyanprasar.gov.in/scientists/saha/sahanew.htm

2) http://www.packolkata.org/history.html

 

I would never have mentioned all this but your approach of abusing

astrology as a science makes me take this step so that the member on

the

list understand the facts.

 

Chandrashekhar.

 

 

Avtar Krishen Kaul wrote:

>

>

> <%40>, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

>

> Dear Razdan Sahib,

> Namaskar!

> Many thanks for your detailed reply!

>

> Let me try to analyze some of your points vis-a-vis the facts:

> <I have however interest in Vedic Astrology and have been studying

it

> for the last eight years.>

>

> The alpha and omega of " Vedic astrology " are Mesha, Vrisha etc.

> rashis and all the seven planets besides Rahu and Kethu! Ironically,

> the Rashis---all the twelve of them---are conspicuous by their

> absence from the Vedas, Upanishadas, Brahmanas etc. etc. And so are

> the most dreaded planets like Mangal, Shani etc. There is no mention

> of Rahu but some reference to Swarbhanu whereas Kethu is referred to

> in the sense of " dhoomaketu "

>

> As such, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology is to do

> great injustice to our Vedic Seers!

>

> < I felt that we Indians donot take our old scriptures seriously...>

>

> Could you kindly quote any scripture that has advised us to run

after

> jyotishis in order to find out as to whether Lalu or Kalu will be

the

> PM or " whether I will recover from my heart attack " ? To the best of

> my knowlege all our scriptures advise us

> " uttishthatai jagrata prapya varan nibodhata " . As such, to say that

> we are not taking our " jyotish scriptures " seriously is a patent lie

> since there are no scriptures that advise us to prctise predictive

> gimmicks!

>

> <while westerners not only study these but promote these and try to

> bring them on the so called scientific field.>

>

> Westerners are mercenaries! They are not promoting our scriptures

> but their own christianity! If they are interested in " Vedic

> astrology " it is only because they are milking a cow that has golden

> udders! Can you imagine as to how foolish we are when we believe the

> Western charlatans that they are promoting " Vedic astrology " when

> none of our scriptures has advised us to believe in any predictive

> gimmicks, at least the Rashi based ones!

>

> <My own opinion is that there is no need to find any proof for Vedic

> Astrology as a predictive tool>

>

> Does such an opinion have any value either logically or

> scientifically? Such opinions can be called " wishful thinking " or at

> best an illusion/hallucination of the highest order!

>

> <.( It is called Vedic to differentiate it from Western Astrology,

> Chinese Astrology etc and therefore there is nothing wrong in

calling

> it so) >

> Why call it Vedic? Why not call it " Indian " or " Hindu " or " nirayana "

> and so on? As aleady explained, to call any predictive gimmicks

> as " Vedic " is to exhibit our ignorance of our Vedic knowledge to the

> whole world from housetops! It is politicians who tell such lies

> like attributing certain qualties to some " item " which that " item "

> does not possess! Real Vedic scholas never do so!

>

> <Do we need a proof for what Lord Krishna says in Bhagwat Gita.>

>

> No, we do not need any proofs for the same! But then the same Lord

> Krishna has never advised us to consult some soothsayer! Why are you

> forgetting the world famous sholka of the same Gita

> " karmanyeva adhikaraste ma phaleshu kadachana

> ma karma phala hetur bhoo ma te sango astu akarmani "

>

> Then again, when Arjuna tells Lord Krishna, as per the same Gita

that

> you are quoting as an authority,

> " I do not know who will win the war " Lord Krishna did not advise

> Arjuna to consult some Jyotishsi to find out an answer to that

> question! On the other hand, He said to Arjuna in quite unambguous

> words,

> " If you get killed you will go to the heavens and if you win the war

> yo will be the master of the whole globe "

>

> Why are we, who call ourselves Krishna Bhaktas and Vedic Hindus,

> going against the dictum of the same Lord Krishna but following the

> dictum of some overseas Vamadeva and local " Parashara " etc. who are

> makinng a fool of us?

>

> <For example Parashara says that for a person to be good

astrologist,

> he needs to be a Sanskari, a man imbued with faith on Dharma living

a

> pure and austere life and having superior drishti ( some sort of

> sixth sense, some jyotishis of Kashmir had).>

>

> By Parashara, you mean Brihat Parashariwala Paashara! It appears you

> have not read any of my posts, where in it has been proved

> consclusively that the Parasharis galore that are floating around

are

> not by Parashara the father of Krishna Dvaipayana Veda-Vyasa but

some

> fake Parashara, maybe even several fake " Parasharas " . This has been

> demonstrated by Pt. S. B. Dikshit in his " Bharatiya Jyotish " and by

> Sitaram Jha in his original " Parasharai " published originally about

> seventy years back by Master Khelari Lal and Sons, Varanasi, which

> was later translated by R. Santhanam into English! However,

> Santhanam/publishers completely omitted the orignal words of Sitaram

> Jha that he had collected the (so called) Parashari from different

> sources and thus there was no guarantee that the work was really by

> Maharshi Parashara!

>

> All these Parasharis are like " Ravana Samhita " and " Brighu Samhita " -

--

> master concoctios and nothing else!

>

> <For example we know very little about the use of divisional charts

> and it is possible we miss a lot of information from this lack of

> knowledge.>

>

> All these divisional charts and at least thirty-six types of Dasha

> Bhuktis and at least half a dozen ayanamshas are irrefutable proofs

> that " Vedic astrology " is nothing but a fraud that is being made

more

> and more confusing with the passage of everyday so that in such a

> labyrinth, nobody tires to question the veracity of their

statements!

>

> <what would have been possible with men who could remember several

> hundred pages of text easily like modern day computers.>

>

> Vedanga Jyotisha, the only indigenous astronomical work of about

1400

> BCE comprises hardly a hundred shlokas! And that work gives just the

> methodology of calculating tithi, nakshatra and the months Madhu,

> Madhava etc.

>

> Besides, as already explained hundeds of times, prior to the advent

> of planetary data from overseas observatories like that of Greenwich

> and US Naval Observatory etc., India never had any methodology of

> calculating correct planetary longitudes! In other words, right from

> the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha of second century BCE till

> about 1900 AD, India could never calculate horoscopes properly,

since

> the planetary longitudes derived from the Surya Sidhanta or

Aryabhati

> or Sidhanhta Shiromani or Grahalghava or Makaranda etc. etc. were

> incorrect by several degrees whatever the ayanamsha used! As such,

> to expect that our forefathers/ancestors made correct predcitions is

> to live in a fool's paradise! They never had the wherewithall to do

> so whether by way of astronomy or by way of astrological literature

> since all the astrologcial jargon is a direct import from

> Babylon/Greece!

>

> <It is fashionable among Hindus to criticise their own faith since

> the word Hindu and things associated with it are considered

primitive

> and unscientific>

>

> I had thrown a challenge to all the astrologers, whether Vedic or

> anti-Vedic or non-Vedic to quote even a single sholka from any

Purana

> or Smriti or Itihasa or any other shastra---leave alone the Vedas---

> that has asked us to cosnult some soothsayer before embarking on any

> plan! I repeat that challenge!

>

> Since there are no such references, we are becoming a pawn in the

> hands of overseas and even local mercenaries who are brainwashing us

> that we must believe that predictive gimmicks are as per the Hindu

> shastras! NO they are not! They are imports from Greece and the

> earlier we realize that truth the better for the entire Hindu

> community, since it is only such a blind faith in " Veic astrology "

> that is compelling us to celebrate all our festivals and muhurtas on

> wrong days, and thus making us decimate our own Vedic culture by our

> own foolishness of our faith in " Vedic astrology " !

> The sooner we come out of such a stupor the better!

> With regards,

> A K Kaul

>

>

> <%40>, " pnrazdan "

<pnrazdan@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Kaul Sahib,

> > Namaskar. Yes, I have read your several posts on the Panchang

> > calculations and the detailed elaboration of your views on what

you

> > term as the mistake committed in the calculations. I donot have

> > knoweldge on this subject and therefore cannot comment.

> > I have however interest in Vedic Astrology and have been studying

it

> > for the last eight years. I developed interest for it while I was

in

> > US after meeting some westerners who are quite knoweldgeble in

it. I

> > felt that we Indians donot take our old scriptures seriously while

> > westerners not only study these but promote these and try to bring

> > them on the so called scientific field. Thus Yoga has become a

> > household word here in US and a lot has been done for Vedic

> Astrology

> > by developing the software for chart making, setting up of two

> > Associations both in Britain and US etc., notwithstanding the

spread

> > of various quacks who make lot of money in this field.

> >

> > My own opinion is that there is no need to find any proof for

Vedic

> > Astrology as a predictive tool even though I find enough to brand

it

> > as a science.( It is called Vedic to differentiate it from Western

> > Astrology, Chinese Astrology etc and therefore there is nothing

> wrong

> > in calling it so) Do we need a proof for what Lord Krishna says in

> > Bhagwat Gita. Do we need to prove that Spiritual path is the only

> way

> > to get ultimate bliss. Faith is essential in these things because

it

> > comes from the same class of " people " who gave us the supreme

> > knowledge enshrined in vedas, upanishads etc.Faith on past life

and

> > Karmic theory too is essential pre requisite for this.

> > Well proving it to be a science looks to me as childish since the

> > present scientific parameters seem to be primitive to measure its

> > " scientific " character. For example Parashara says that for a

person

> > to be good astrologist, he needs to be a Sanskari, a man imbued

with

> > faith on Dharma living a pure and austere life and having superior

> > drishti ( some sort of sixth sense, some jyotishis of Kashmir

had).

> > This is one of the several attributes that a perfect astrologist

> needs

> > to have while making a successful prediction. Where will this

> > attribute come in the long list of variables that we try to employ

> for

> > making a cause-effect relationship following the secintific

> > terminology. That is why I say that this sort of scientific form

> > y=f(x) will not work in this field. Besides the mathematical

> > relationships cannot hold good here because no two persons are

> similar

> > in this world. Human nature being different, one has to find these

> > sophistications in each chart, something that we know very little

> of.

> > For example we know very little about the use of divisional charts

> and

> > it is possible we miss a lot of information from this lack of

> knowledge.

> > Just as Arjuna while tired of hearing Lord Krishna, begs Him of a

> > practical proof of what He says to him and thereafter Lord Krishna

> > bestows Arjuna with a new pair of eyes to have divya drishti and

to

> > see his Virat Swarup, similarly we cannot measure the scientific

> > nature of VA by the existing science, the calculations of NASA

etc.

> > Several good astrologists make a good analysis and it is not

> > difficult to see good and bad from the chart at least like a haze.

> If

> > all this is possible with our little knowledge, what would have

been

> > possible with men who could remember several hundred pages of text

> > easily like modern day computers.Faculties of men in Kaliyug are

> > limited and we are just fiddling with knowledge through our

limited

> > tools.Most importantly, there is self doubt. It is fashionable

among

> > Hindus to criticise their own faith since the word Hindu and

things

> > associated with it are considered primitive and unscientific.

> > Regards,

> > P.N.Razdan

> >

> >

> >

> >

> <%40>, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear P. N. Razdan Sahib,

> > > Namaskar Mahara!

> > >

> > > Regarding the discussion whether astrology is a science or myth,

> I

> > > am personally of the opinion that astrology is a way of making a

> > > fool of a common man! How I arrived at such a conclusion, let me

> > > narrate in brief!

> > > As you are aware, I am also from Srinagar, Kashmir. I was myself

> > > immersed deep in all the " attributes " of astrology right

> > > from " Badsharwar " (sade-sati) to " Tekini-milanavuni " (Patri

> Milapak)

> > > etc. etc. My maternal grandfather, late Shri Nath Ji Shastri

> > > (Pajnoo) of Chundapura, Srinagar, Kashmir was a very reputed

> > > astrologer, though he never charged any thing from anybody!

> Probably

> > > you might have heard his name there!

> > >

> > > I inherited a lot of Sanskrit literature---including books on

> > > astrology----from him, which, unfortunately, got destroyed in

> 1990

> > > because of the political disturbances there.

> > >

> > > You must also be aware that till about 1985 there was only one

> > > Janri/Panchang there in Srinagar and that was Vijay-eshwar

> > > Jantri/panchang which was being published for the last about two

> > > centuries. My grandpa was an avid reader of the same in Sharda

> > > script.

> > > I was under the impression that that was a divine work as

> otherwise

> > > how could a human being calculate the planetary positions! I

> would

> > > take every word of the same as gospel truth and read my

Rashiphal

> > > and " amdani-kharch ka naksha " etc. etc. at least fifteen to

> twenty

> > > times. From there I " graduated " to Brihat Parashari, Manasagari,

> > > Brihat Jatakam, Sanket Nidhi, Kheta-Kautukam etc. etc. In fact

> > > there is perhaps not even a signle book on predictive gimmicks

> > > whether in Sanskrit or Urdu or Hindi or English that I have not

> gone

> > > through and tested and tried in day to day life!

> > >

> > > When quite a few predictions did not come true in spite of the

> same

> > > having been made as per impeccable jyotisha-shastras, I started

> > > delving deep into astronomy, both sidhantic and astrophysics!

> > >

> > > Regarding " mundane affairs " i.e. the fate of our " Moj kasheer "

> > > (Mother Kashmir) we had nobody else to fall back upon except

what

> > > our Vijayeshwar-wala told us! He was our friend, philospher and

> > > guide! And unfortunately for the KP community, he let us down

> badly

> > > becuase during the years 1989 and 1990, when insurgency was at

> its

> > > hieght in Kashmir, he had repeated/assured in his Jantri that

> peace

> > > would reign in the valley! AND you are fully aware as to what

> type

> > > of peace it was---we became refugees in our own motherland and

> quite

> > > a few KPs were butchered and quite a few Kashmiri ladies raped

> and

> > > enslaved for lives!

> > > And that was the peace that Vijayeshwarwala had predicted

> for " Moj

> > > Kahseer " !

> > >

> > > (That reminds me of the fate of our nighbour, the only Hindu

> kingdom

> > > of yesteryears, where the erstwhile king--an Incarnation of

> Visnhu!--

> > > was murdered by his own son the crown prince since the jyotishis

> > > there did not allow the King to marry the crown prince to his

> sweet

> > > heart as their " patri-melapak was not having the requisite

number

> of

> > > gunas " !)

> > >

> > > To add insult to injury, the same Vijayeswhar-wala admitted in

> his

> > > 1994 or 1995 jantri that till then he was making calculations

> > > from " Makaranda " but now he would start doing so from " drik-

> > > ganita " ! He had the cheek to say further that till then he was

> > > doing the calcuatons from " Makaranda " only because his

> competitors

> > > i.e. Brahmana Maha-mandal was doing so!

> > >

> > > Coming to calculations part, Vedic Hindus have never bothered

> about

> > > predictive gimmicks, at least not the rashi-based ones! As such,

> > > the very first work of planetary astronomy in India is the Surya

> > > Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha! Ironically, that is the most

> absurd

> > > astronomical work that anybody could every produce! Still more

> > > inronically, Varahamihira, " the greatest astrologer of the last

> 1500

> > > years " has praised that very Surya Sidhanta to the skies in his

> > > Pnahcasidhantika! And Varahamihira is supposed to have made

> > > accurate Predictions! Not only Varahamihira, but his son

> > > Prithuyashas is also said to have done so and there are quite a

> few

> > > astrological works by both of them!

> > >

> > > Right from the date of the Surya Sidhanta i.e. about 2nd century

> > > BCE, till about a hundred years back, all the panchanga-makers

of

> > > India were basing their calculations on either the Surya

Sidhanta

> or

> > > Aryabhati or Arya Sidhanta or later on some other Karna-grantha

> > > which just circumamublated around the Surya Sidhanta!

> > >

> > > In other words, right from the date of the Surya Sidhanta of

> Pancha-

> > > sidhantika till about a hundred years back, i.e. till the advent

> of

> > > planetary data from Greenwich and other observatories, we never

> had

> > > a correct panchanga! The planetary positions in the earlier

> > > panchangas were wrong by as many as twenty degrees very often!

> If

> > > you somehow reconciled one error by taking refuge in one

> ayanamsha,

> > > another error would crop up which was more horrendous than the

> one

> > > that was removed!

> > >

> > > And as is common knowledge, horoscopes whether of a common man

or

> a

> > > Maharaja, are prepared from panchangas available in the market!

> > >

> > > The million dollar question that arises is that if there were no

> > > correct panchangas available till about a hundred years back,

how

> on

> > > earth could any predictions based on the horscopes prepared from

> the

> > > same be correct! And if someone can make correct predictions

> from

> > > incorrect data, he is said to be a charlatan! In other wrods,

> all

> > > the Hindu astrology was " astrology by charlatans, for charlatans

> and

> > > of charlatans " .

> > > To crown it all, we call that very astrology now " Vedic

> astrology " .

> > > " Kudos " to such astrologers, especially, since this " Vedic

> (actualy

> > > anti-Vedic!) astrology " has made us celebrate all our festivals

> on

> > > wrong days!

> > > Regards,

> > > A K Kaul

> > >

> > >

> > >

> <%40>, " pnrazdan "

<pnrazdan@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sanat,

> > > > I have read most of the posts on the group as also your latest

> > > post

> > > > complaining that members are not reacting to your views.

> > > > In my opinion, the discussion in this group is one-sided. You

> as

> > > well

> > > > as one or two members are obsessed with " proving " that Vedic

> > > > astrology is a myth by trying to demolish arguments of all

> > > supporters

> > > > without any counter facts.Some members also use language of

> hatred

> > > > and make it almost a tirade against VA. It looks like the name

> of

> > > > this group should have been kept as " Myth of Astrology " rather

> > > than

> > > > Science of Astrology.

> > > > I also wanted to elaborate on my views in support of VA but

> found

> > > no

> > > > use since the forum is not open and not evenly placed. I am

> sure

> > > many

> > > > others are feeling like that.

> > > > Unless you make the group balanced and improve the quality of

> > > > discussions, I am afraid, it may not attract members

> contributions.

> > > > Regards,

> > > > P.N.Razdan

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> <%40>, " Wes Stillwagon "

> > > > <wstillwagon1@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> <%40>, " sanat2221 "

> > > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Resp. members,

> > > > > > We are not receiving any msg with some new point of

> discussion

> > > on

> > > > > > astrology to analyze it's correctness. Hence I am

enclosing

> my

> > > > old

> > > > > > blog placed in the file section so that members may read

it

> > > and

> > > > > > comment on any point. Some astrologer members are not

> reacting

> > > > with

> > > > > a

> > > > > > fear to loose their reputation in other forums though they

> are

> > > > > > silently reading the msg. Hence if they want they can

> interact

> > > on

> > > > > my

> > > > > > email sanatkumar_jain@

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So far members have observed that supporters of astrology

> are

> > > > > either

> > > > > > interested in by passing the main point or they have only

> > > faith

> > > > on

> > > > > > astrology without any scientific or logical support to any

> > > > concept.

> > > > > > Thus they want to live in ignorance and pursuing others to

> > > follow

> > > > > the

> > > > > > path of ignorance.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I hope to have some reaction of the members as I am always

> > > > > interested

> > > > > > in looking deep.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > Sanat

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> > > > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to

> some

> > > > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not

> studied

> > > in

> > > > > depth

> > > > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed

> like

> > > > this.

> > > > > So

> > > > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as

to

> > > > whether

> > > > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of

> science

> > > due

> > > > to

> > > > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments

> of

> > > > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only

> > > want

> > > > to

> > > > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let

> us

> > > > > examine

> > > > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because

> you

> > > > have

> > > > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are

> > > standing

> > > > > in

> > > > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has

> been

> > > > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology

> is a

> > > > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can

> > > understand

> > > > > the

> > > > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business

> but

> > > if

> > > > > you

> > > > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or

> > > call

> > > > an

> > > > > > astrologer in the consumer forum.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in

> > > early

> > > > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being

> has

> > > > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> > > > > religious

> > > > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet

> (Sun,

> > > > Moon,

> > > > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days

> only

> > > > > sages

> > > > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus

> after

> > > > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill

> to

> > > > > predict

> > > > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called

> > > > grabbing

> > > > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and

Ketu.

> > > > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and

> its

> > > > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer

> > > donations

> > > > > etc.

> > > > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which

> is

> > > > still

> > > > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of

> > > > > everybody

> > > > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this

> > > situation,

> > > > it

> > > > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict

the

> > > fate

> > > > of

> > > > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict

> the

> > > > fate

> > > > > of

> > > > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate

> > > various

> > > > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge

> of

> > > > sages

> > > > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> > > > > principles

> > > > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

> > > > > percolated

> > > > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier

to

> > > learn

> > > > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these

> principles

> > > > were

> > > > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as

> Western

> > > > > system.

> > > > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One

> > > group

> > > > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology

> due

> > > to

> > > > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always

try

> to

> > > > fit

> > > > > > past event very precisely within some astrological

> principle

> > > > within

> > > > > a

> > > > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and

> faith

> > > > etc.,

> > > > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because

> > > > > astrological

> > > > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too

> diabolical

> > > > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in

> fluke)

> > > may

> > > > > come

> > > > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and

> start

> > > > self

> > > > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle

on

> > > other

> > > > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only

> > > > mislead,

> > > > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can

> > > find

> > > > > that

> > > > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group

> > > (say

> > > > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against

> > > astrology.

> > > > > But

> > > > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was

> the

> > > > > level

> > > > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> > > > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what

procedure

> > > was

> > > > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to

> Lordship,

> > > > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect,

Vinshottary

> > > > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles

then

> > > > > following

> > > > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in

> > > > subpara).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among

> seven

> > > > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the

> > > stationary

> > > > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on..........

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is

enmity

> > > and

> > > > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are

> enemy

> > > of

> > > > > each

> > > > > > other) ?

> > > > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and

> demons

> > > over

> > > > > > nector after sea-churning...........

> > > > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect

> (full,

> > > > > quarter

> > > > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect

on

> > > > seventh

> > > > > > house) ?

> > > > > > Based on the position of army in the battle

field...........

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are

> > > exalted

> > > > and

> > > > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg.

of

> > > Aries

> > > > > > sign) ?

> > > > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when

duration

> of

> > > > the

> > > > > > day is more in comparison to night......

> > > > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful

> and

> > > hub

> > > > > of

> > > > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha

whereas

> > > Venus

> > > > > (a

> > > > > > small planet) has 20 years ?

> > > > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the

effect

> of

> > > > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted.......

> > > > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various

> constellations

> > > > > between

> > > > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian

scriptures..........

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a

> week

> > > > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> > > > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the

> > > > structure

> > > > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away.....

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde

> motion

> > > of

> > > > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse.....

> > > > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are

> 180

> > > > deg.

> > > > > > apart?

> > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse...........

> > > > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of

eclipse ?

> > > > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation

month..........

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question

> as

> > > to

> > > > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one

> gave

> > > > > > answers to these questions then he will realize that

entire

> > > > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept

> of

> > > > > > Universe.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the

> then

> > > > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed

by

> > > sage

> > > > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is

in

> > > the

> > > > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed

> in

> > > all

> > > > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read

> any

> > > > old

> > > > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas

Moon

> is

> > > > > beyond

> > > > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury

and

> > > Moon.

> > > > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological

> principles

> > > are

> > > > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self

studying

> > > > > astrology

> > > > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude

> > > correct

> > > > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same

> > > combination

> > > > is

> > > > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh

> logically

> > > and

> > > > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive

> > > > concept

> > > > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling

in

> > > view

> > > > of

> > > > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive

> > > concept

> > > > > of

> > > > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> > > > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on

> > > > > astrology " Jyotish -

> > > > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book

> > > contains

> > > > > the

> > > > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles

on

> > > the

> > > > > basis

> > > > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our

> > > sages

> > > > to

> > > > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published

in

> > > > English

> > > > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages).

> The

> > > > book

> > > > > is

> > > > > > being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> > > > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> <http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?>

> > > > produktID=1759836

> > > > > >

> > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?

AUB=sanat%

> <http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%>

> > > > 20kumar%

> > > > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> > > > > >

> > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> <http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?>

> > > > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

> > > > > >

> > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus,

> Neptune

> > > nor

> > > > > they

> > > > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to

> > > presence

> > > > > of

> > > > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed

> the

> > > > > concept

> > > > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was

> > > > mentioned

> > > > > in

> > > > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came

> > > within

> > > > 14

> > > > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon).

> But

> > > > > nobody

> > > > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse

> > > when

> > > > > Sun,

> > > > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree

> > > respectively

> > > > > on

> > > > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun,

Moon

> > > and

> > > > > Ketu

> > > > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on

03-

> 03-

> > > > 1988

> > > > > (

> > > > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar

> > > > eclipses

> > > > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was

> more

> > > then

> > > > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at

> > > 79.04

> > > > > deg.

> > > > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon

were

> at

> > > > > 76.49

> > > > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu

> was

> > > > 15.14

> > > > > > deg. away).

> > > > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you

> will

> > > > also

> > > > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse

> occurred

> > > at

> > > > the

> > > > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it

> was

> > > > not

> > > > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis

> of

> > > > > myth).

> > > > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse,

> when

> > > > Moon

> > > > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be

> there.

> > > But

> > > > > As

> > > > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-

> 1985

> > > > and

> > > > > 3-

> > > > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were

> full

> > > > solar

> > > > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166

degree

> > > > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full

> solar

> > > > > eclipses

> > > > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and

> 166

> > > > > degree

> > > > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may

> > > possible.

> > > > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in

> > > almanac.

> > > > > Thus

> > > > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees

> > > respectively.

> > > > > All

> > > > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this

> > > > fundamental

> > > > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you

> want

> > > > then

> > > > > I

> > > > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of

> > > detecting

> > > > > them.

> > > > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a

> science

> > > but

> > > > in

> > > > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of

> astronomy

> > > +

> > > > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science,

> psychology

> > > > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive

age)

> > > > played

> > > > > an

> > > > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due

> to

> > > > > immense

> > > > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology

> > > > appears

> > > > > to

> > > > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will

> also

> > > > agree

> > > > > > with the above observation after going through my original

> > > > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-

> decided

> > > as

> > > > was

> > > > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may

> try

> > > to

> > > > > do

> > > > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according

> to

> > > pre-

> > > > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of

> modifying

> > > that

> > > > > pre-

> > > > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our

fate,

> > > even

> > > > > then

> > > > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating

a

> > > > > cascading

> > > > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of

> > > every

> > > > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or

> say

> > > pre-

> > > > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when

> > > every

> > > > > Tom,

> > > > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship,

> good

> > > > deed

> > > > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under

> > > change.

> > > > > You

> > > > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> > > > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and

> can

> > > > never

> > > > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart

> cannot

> > > be

> > > > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction

is

> > > also

> > > > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

> > > > > prewritten)

> > > > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc.

> because

> > > in

> > > > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be

> > > altered

> > > > > but

> > > > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked

prediction

> > > can

> > > > be

> > > > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed

transit

> of

> > > > > > planets?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest

> > > assured

> > > > > that

> > > > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all.

Only

> > > > > astronomy

> > > > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were

> used

> > > > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it

appears

> > > > > correct.

> > > > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a

> myth.

> > > > Still

> > > > > if

> > > > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact

> The

> > > > James

> > > > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000

> prize

> > > to

> > > > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-

mail

> > > and

> > > > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org

> <http://www.randi.org> Because modern

> > > > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being

> used

> > > to

> > > > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested

> > > business

> > > > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight

> this

> > > sort

> > > > > of

> > > > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in

this

> > > > regard

> > > > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> > > > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to

> formulate

> > > > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct

> > > information

> > > > of

> > > > > > Universe, solar system.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It would be better to know the roots of astrology and

> facts,

> > > data

> > > > > > behind it before falling in the trap and come forward to

> join

> > > > hands

> > > > > > because of AIDS (Astrology Is Damaging Society).

> > > > > > Sanat Kumar Jain

> > > > > > Think differently, Think logically and Think

scientifically

> > > > > >

> > > > > Im afraid that your " logic " and " thinking " is a bit off base

> on

> > > > this

> > > > > topic. Swiss Psychiatrist, Alexander Newton, Copernicus,

> Albert

> > > > > Einstein, Kepler, Frank Brown, Northwestern University,

Makai

> > > > Takata,

> > > > > Toho University, and thousands of qualified and honored

> > > scientists

> > > > > agree that there is indeed a science called astrology.

Newton

> > > said

> > > > > the following to Hally (comet) fame when he challenged the

> > > validity

> > > > > of astrology, " Sir I've studied the subject, you have not! "

> > > > > YOu are way off base and your examination of the subject is

> > > > > incomplete, your conclusions are without merit.

> > > > >

> > > > > Wes

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

>

 

--- End forwarded message ---