Guest guest Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Resp. members, We are not receiving any msg with some new point of discussion on astrology to analyze it's correctness. Hence I am enclosing my old blog placed in the file section so that members may read it and comment on any point. Some astrologer members are not reacting with a fear to loose their reputation in other forums though they are silently reading the msg. Hence if they want they can interact on my email sanatkumar_jain So far members have observed that supporters of astrology are either interested in by passing the main point or they have only faith on astrology without any scientific or logical support to any concept. Thus they want to live in ignorance and pursuing others to follow the path of ignorance. I hope to have some reaction of the members as I am always interested in looking deep. Thanks Sanat ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in depth but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. So come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us examine it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing in support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand the problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if you are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an astrologer in the consumer forum. At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This religious philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon, Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only sages had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to predict solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations etc. to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of everybody is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate of King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These principles were the key factors for deciding the fate. Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never percolated in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western system. What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit past event very precisely within some astrological principle within a capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc., but they are unable to predict any future event. Because astrological principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may come true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead, create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find that only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. But none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the level of information of sages about the Universe, who developed astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then following questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara). 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of each other) ? Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over nector after sea-churning……….. 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, quarter to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh house) ? Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries sign) ? Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the day is more in comparison to night…… 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub of our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus (a small planet) has 20 years ? Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations between nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg. apart? On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave answers to these questions then he will realize that entire astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of Universe. Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is beyond Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying astrology since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept of Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology " Jyotish - Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains the detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the basis of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to formulate these principles. This book was also published in English with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?produktID=1759836 http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%20kumar% 20jain & TAG= & CID= http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor they were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence of Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the concept of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was mentioned in the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14 degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But nobody will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when Sun, Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively on 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and Ketu were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-1988 ( Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 deg. on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at 76.49 deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14 deg. away). To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of myth). Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But As per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and 3- 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar eclipses then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 degree respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. Thus there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. All horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then I can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting them. I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played an important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to immense faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology appears to be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree with the above observation after going through my original revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to do some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that pre- written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even then all attached happening will automatically change creating a cascading effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every Tom, Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. You will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever prewritten) by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered but how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of planets? Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured that actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only astronomy and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears correct. Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still if you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and website is jref and http://www.randi.org Because modern technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort of ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of Universe, solar system. It would be better to know the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling in the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS (Astrology Is Damaging Society). Sanat Kumar Jain Think differently, Think logically and Think scientifically Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > Resp. members, > We are not receiving any msg with some new point of discussion on > astrology to analyze it's correctness. Hence I am enclosing my old > blog placed in the file section so that members may read it and > comment on any point. Some astrologer members are not reacting with a > fear to loose their reputation in other forums though they are > silently reading the msg. Hence if they want they can interact on my > email sanatkumar_jain > > So far members have observed that supporters of astrology are either > interested in by passing the main point or they have only faith on > astrology without any scientific or logical support to any concept. > Thus they want to live in ignorance and pursuing others to follow the > path of ignorance. > > I hope to have some reaction of the members as I am always interested > in looking deep. > > Thanks > Sanat > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in depth > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. So > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us examine > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing in > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand the > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if you > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This religious > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon, > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only sages > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to predict > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations etc. > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of everybody > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate of > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These principles > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never percolated > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western system. > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit > past event very precisely within some astrological principle within a > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc., > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because astrological > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may come > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead, > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find that > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. But > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the level > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then following > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara). > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of each > other) ? > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > nector after sea-churning……….. > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, quarter > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh > house) ? > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > sign) ? > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the > day is more in comparison to night…… > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub of > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus (a > small planet) has 20 years ? > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations between > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg. > apart? > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > answers to these questions then he will realize that entire > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > Universe. > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is beyond > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying astrology > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept of > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology " Jyotish - > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains the > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the basis > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to > formulate these principles. This book was also published in English > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). The book is > being marketed in USA /UK etc. > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?produktID=1759836 > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%20kumar% > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor they > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence of > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the concept > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was mentioned in > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14 > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But nobody > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when Sun, > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively on > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and Ketu > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-1988 ( > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 deg. > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at 76.49 > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14 > deg. away). > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of myth). > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But As > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and 3- > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar eclipses > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 degree > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. Thus > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. All > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then I > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting them. > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played an > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to immense > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology appears to > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree > with the above observation after going through my original > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to do > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that pre- > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even then > all attached happening will automatically change creating a cascading > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every Tom, > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. You > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever prewritten) > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered but > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > planets? > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured that > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only astronomy > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears correct. > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still if > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > website is jref and http://www.randi.org Because modern > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort of > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of > Universe, solar system. > > It would be better to know the roots of astrology and facts, data > behind it before falling in the trap and come forward to join hands > because of AIDS (Astrology Is Damaging Society). > Sanat Kumar Jain > Think differently, Think logically and Think scientifically > Im afraid that your " logic " and " thinking " is a bit off base on this topic. Swiss Psychiatrist, Alexander Newton, Copernicus, Albert Einstein, Kepler, Frank Brown, Northwestern University, Makai Takata, Toho University, and thousands of qualified and honored scientists agree that there is indeed a science called astrology. Newton said the following to Hally (comet) fame when he challenged the validity of astrology, " Sir I've studied the subject, you have not! " YOu are way off base and your examination of the subject is incomplete, your conclusions are without merit. Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Dear Sanat, I have read most of the posts on the group as also your latest post complaining that members are not reacting to your views. In my opinion, the discussion in this group is one-sided. You as well as one or two members are obsessed with " proving " that Vedic astrology is a myth by trying to demolish arguments of all supporters without any counter facts.Some members also use language of hatred and make it almost a tirade against VA. It looks like the name of this group should have been kept as " Myth of Astrology " rather than Science of Astrology. I also wanted to elaborate on my views in support of VA but found no use since the forum is not open and not evenly placed. I am sure many others are feeling like that. Unless you make the group balanced and improve the quality of discussions, I am afraid, it may not attract members contributions. Regards, P.N.Razdan , " Wes Stillwagon " <wstillwagon1 wrote: > > , " sanat2221 " > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > Resp. members, > > We are not receiving any msg with some new point of discussion on > > astrology to analyze it's correctness. Hence I am enclosing my old > > blog placed in the file section so that members may read it and > > comment on any point. Some astrologer members are not reacting with > a > > fear to loose their reputation in other forums though they are > > silently reading the msg. Hence if they want they can interact on > my > > email sanatkumar_jain@ > > > > So far members have observed that supporters of astrology are > either > > interested in by passing the main point or they have only faith on > > astrology without any scientific or logical support to any concept. > > Thus they want to live in ignorance and pursuing others to follow > the > > path of ignorance. > > > > I hope to have some reaction of the members as I am always > interested > > in looking deep. > > > > Thanks > > Sanat > > > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > depth > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. > So > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > examine > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing > in > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > the > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > you > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an > > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > religious > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon, > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > sages > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > predict > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > etc. > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > everybody > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate > of > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > principles > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > percolated > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > system. > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle within > a > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc., > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > astrological > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > come > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead, > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > that > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > But > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > level > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > following > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara). > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > each > > other) ? > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > nector after sea-churning……….. > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > quarter > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh > > house) ? > > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > sign) ? > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the > > day is more in comparison to night…… > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > of > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > (a > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > between > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg. > > apart? > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > answers to these questions then he will realize that entire > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > Universe. > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > beyond > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > astrology > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > of > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on > astrology " Jyotish - > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > the > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > basis > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in English > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). The book > is > > being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do? produktID=1759836 > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat% 20kumar% > > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > they > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > of > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > concept > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was mentioned > in > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14 > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > nobody > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > Sun, > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > on > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > Ketu > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03- 1988 > ( > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > deg. > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > 76.49 > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14 > > deg. away). > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > myth). > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > As > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and > 3- > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > eclipses > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > degree > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > Thus > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > All > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then > I > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > them. > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played > an > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > immense > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology appears > to > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree > > with the above observation after going through my original > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > do > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > pre- > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > then > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > cascading > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > Tom, > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > You > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > prewritten) > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > but > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > planets? > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > that > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > astronomy > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > correct. > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still > if > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > of > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of > > Universe, solar system. > > > > It would be better to know the roots of astrology and facts, data > > behind it before falling in the trap and come forward to join hands > > because of AIDS (Astrology Is Damaging Society). > > Sanat Kumar Jain > > Think differently, Think logically and Think scientifically > > > Im afraid that your " logic " and " thinking " is a bit off base on this > topic. Swiss Psychiatrist, Alexander Newton, Copernicus, Albert > Einstein, Kepler, Frank Brown, Northwestern University, Makai Takata, > Toho University, and thousands of qualified and honored scientists > agree that there is indeed a science called astrology. Newton said > the following to Hally (comet) fame when he challenged the validity > of astrology, " Sir I've studied the subject, you have not! " > YOu are way off base and your examination of the subject is > incomplete, your conclusions are without merit. > > Wes > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Dear Mr. Razdan, This is a 'open' group discussion. Your comment " Unless you make the group balanced........" seems to direct that this subject is closed to the extent that it is 'one sided...' No it is not. Unfortunately, People believe in one and they do not believe in the other, and they do not substantiate with authority their reason for 'leaning' on their 'belief'. There is a belief in a section that just 'praising' God or acting in a manner to appease the 'faith' will lead them to prosperity from their existing level. Is it a 'myth' or 'science'? That I call it a 'myth'. I call it that one tries to 'bribe' or 'influence' God and take the concept cheaply. Analyzing and understanding any subject with rules and theorems, corollaries, and Ryder's are said to be a scientific analysis. Astrology comes under this category to be classified as 'scientific'. A person's entire life is not enough to understand the intricacies of this great old subject. This subject is older than any presently practiced religion. A.V.Pathi, North Carolina, 27514, USApnrazdan <pnrazdan Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 10:27:41 AM Re: Astrology a science or myth Dear Sanat,I have read most of the posts on the group as also your latest post complaining that members are not reacting to your views.In my opinion, the discussion in this group is one-sided. You as well as one or two members are obsessed with "proving" that Vedic astrology is a myth by trying to demolish arguments of all supporters without any counter facts.Some members also use language of hatred and make it almost a tirade against VA. It looks like the name of this group should have been kept as "Myth of Astrology" rather than Science of Astrology.I also wanted to elaborate on my views in support of VA but found no use since the forum is not open and not evenly placed. I am sure many others are feeling like that. Unless you make the group balanced and improve the quality of discussions, I am afraid, it may not attract members contributions.Regards,P.N.Razdan, "Wes Stillwagon" <wstillwagon1@ ...> wrote:>> , "sanat2221" > <sanatkumar_ jain@> wrote:> >> > > > Resp. members,> > We are not receiving any msg with some new point of discussion on > > astrology to analyze it's correctness. Hence I am enclosing my old > > blog placed in the file section so that members may read it and > > comment on any point. Some astrologer members are not reacting with > a > > fear to loose their reputation in other forums though they are > > silently reading the msg. Hence if they want they can interact on > my > > email sanatkumar_jain@> > > > So far members have observed that supporters of astrology are > either > > interested in by passing the main point or they have only faith on > > astrology without any scientific or logical support to any concept. > > Thus they want to live in ignorance and pursuing others to follow > the > > path of ignorance. > > > > I hope to have some reaction of the members as I am always > interested > > in looking deep.> > > > Thanks> > Sanat> > > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH> > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > depth > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. > So > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > examine > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing > in > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > the > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > you > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an > > astrologer in the consumer forum.> > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > religious > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon, > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > sages > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > predict > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.> > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > etc. > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > everybody > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate > of > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > principles > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > percolated > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > system.> > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle within > a > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc., > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > astrological > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > come > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead, > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > that > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > But > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > level > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated , Aspect, Vinshottary > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > following > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara).> > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?> > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….> > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > each > > other) ?> > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > nector after sea-churning………..> > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > quarter > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh > > house) ?> > Based on the position of army in the battle field………..> > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > sign) ?> > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the > > day is more in comparison to night……> > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > of > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > (a > > small planet) has 20 years ?> > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….> > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > between > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?> > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….> > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?> > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..> > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?> > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..> > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg. > > apart?> > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..> > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?> > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month……….> > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > answers to these questions then he will realize that entire > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > Universe.> > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > beyond > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > astrology > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > of > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.> > After lot of research I wrote an original book on > astrology "Jyotish -> > Kitna sahi kitna galat" in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > the > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > basis > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in English > > with the title "Astrology a science or myth" (450 pages). The book > is > > being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > Refer http://www.bokklubb en.no/samboweb/ produkt.do?produktID=1759836> > > > http://www.thebookp lace.com/ bookplace/ results-asp? AUB=sanat%20kumar%> > 20jain & TAG= & CID=> > > > http://www.aggarwal overseas. com/booksdetail. aspx?> > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t> > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > they > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > of > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > concept > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11". It was mentioned > in > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14 > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > nobody > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > Sun, > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > on > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > Ketu > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-1988 > ( > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > deg. > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > 76.49 > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14 > > deg. away).> > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > myth). > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > As > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and > 3-> > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > eclipses > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > degree > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > Thus > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > All > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then > I > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > them.> > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played > an > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > immense > > faith over astrology+astrologe r hence predictive astrology appears > to > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree > > with the above observation after going through my original > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > do > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre-> > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > pre-> > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > then > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > cascading > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre-> > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > Tom, > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > You > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > prewritten) > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > but > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > planets?> > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > that > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > astronomy > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > correct. > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still > if > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi. org Because modern > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > of > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of > > Universe, solar system.> > > > It would be better to know the roots of astrology and facts, data > > behind it before falling in the trap and come forward to join hands > > because of AIDS (Astrology Is Damaging Society).> > Sanat Kumar Jain> > Think differently, Think logically and Think scientifically> >> Im afraid that your "logic" and "thinking" is a bit off base on this > topic. Swiss Psychiatrist, Alexander Newton, Copernicus, Albert > Einstein, Kepler, Frank Brown, Northwestern University, Makai Takata, > Toho University, and thousands of qualified and honored scientists > agree that there is indeed a science called astrology. Newton said > the following to Hally (comet) fame when he challenged the validity > of astrology, "Sir I've studied the subject, you have not!"> YOu are way off base and your examination of the subject is > incomplete, your conclusions are without merit. > > Wes> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Dear Mr Pathi I am also a member of this forum. Atleast I was, now I am a silent member. I was mislead by the name of the forum to believe that there is truely some scientific research going on. Later on I found out that the only aim of this group is to call astrologers to participate and then do mud slinging on them and degrade them. To instigate them and then make fun of them. This is being very actively carried out by Mr Sanat and his stooge Dipika. They not only do mud slinging on astrology and astrologers but also degrade great Rishis and Hinduism. So I would advie u as a friend not to write anything in this forum but be a silent member and watch what is going on. If possible do the same service to other astrologers who are befooled to join this forum Regards. Ravichandran--- On Tue, 7/15/08, venkatachala pathi <pathiav wrote: venkatachala pathi <pathiavRe: Re: Astrology a science or myth Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 7:19 PM Dear Mr. Razdan, This is a 'open' group discussion. Your comment " Unless you make the group balanced.... ...." seems to direct that this subject is closed to the extent that it is 'one sided...' No it is not. Unfortunately, People believe in one and they do not believe in the other, and they do not substantiate with authority their reason for 'leaning' on their 'belief'. There is a belief in a section that just 'praising' God or acting in a manner to appease the 'faith' will lead them to prosperity from their existing level. Is it a 'myth' or 'science'? That I call it a 'myth'. I call it that one tries to 'bribe' or 'influence' God and take the concept cheaply. Analyzing and understanding any subject with rules and theorems, corollaries, and Ryder's are said to be a scientific analysis. Astrology comes under this category to be classified as 'scientific' . A person's entire life is not enough to understand the intricacies of this great old subject. This subject is older than any presently practiced religion. A.V.Pathi, North Carolina, 27514, USApnrazdan <pnrazdan >Tuesday, July 15, 2008 10:27:41 AM Re: Astrology a science or myth Dear Sanat,I have read most of the posts on the group as also your latest post complaining that members are not reacting to your views.In my opinion, the discussion in this group is one-sided. You as well as one or two members are obsessed with "proving" that Vedic astrology is a myth by trying to demolish arguments of all supporters without any counter facts.Some members also use language of hatred and make it almost a tirade against VA. It looks like the name of this group should have been kept as "Myth of Astrology" rather than Science of Astrology.I also wanted to elaborate on my views in support of VA but found no use since the forum is not open and not evenly placed. I am sure many others are feeling like that. Unless you make the group balanced and improve the quality of discussions, I am afraid, it may not attract members contributions.Regards,P.N.Razdan, "Wes Stillwagon" <wstillwagon1@ ...> wrote:>> , "sanat2221" > <sanatkumar_ jain@> wrote:> >> > > > Resp. members,> > We are not receiving any msg with some new point of discussion on > > astrology to analyze it's correctness. Hence I am enclosing my old > > blog placed in the file section so that members may read it and > > comment on any point. Some astrologer members are not reacting with > a > > fear to loose their reputation in other forums though they are > > silently reading the msg. Hence if they want they can interact on > my > > email sanatkumar_jain@> > > > So far members have observed that supporters of astrology are > either > > interested in by passing the main point or they have only faith on > > astrology without any scientific or logical support to any concept. > > Thus they want to live in ignorance and pursuing others to follow > the > > path of ignorance. > > > > I hope to have some reaction of the members as I am always > interested > > in looking deep.> > > > Thanks> > Sanat> > > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH> > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > depth > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. > So > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > examine > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing > in > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > the > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > you > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an > > astrologer in the consumer forum.> > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > religious > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon, > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > sages > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > predict > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.> > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > etc. > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > everybody > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate > of > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > principles > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > percolated > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > system.> > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle within > a > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc., > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > astrological > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > come > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead, > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > that > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > But > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > level > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated , Aspect, Vinshottary > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > following > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara).> > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?> > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….> > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > each > > other) ?> > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > nector after sea-churning………..> > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > quarter > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh > > house) ?> > Based on the position of army in the battle field………..> > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > sign) ?> > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the > > day is more in comparison to night……> > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > of > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > (a > > small planet) has 20 years ?> > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….> > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > between > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?> > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….> > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?> > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..> > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?> > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..> > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg. > > apart?> > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..> > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?> > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month……….> > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > answers to these questions then he will realize that entire > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > Universe.> > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > beyond > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > astrology > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > of > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.> > After lot of research I wrote an original book on > astrology "Jyotish -> > Kitna sahi kitna galat" in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > the > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > basis > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in English > > with the title "Astrology a science or myth" (450 pages). The book > is > > being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > Refer http://www.bokklubb en.no/samboweb/ produkt.do?produktID=1759836> > > > http://www.thebookp lace.com/ bookplace/ results-asp? AUB=sanat%20kumar%> > 20jain & TAG= & CID=> > > > http://www.aggarwal overseas. com/booksdetail. aspx?> > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t> > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > they > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > of > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > concept > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11". It was mentioned > in > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14 > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > nobody > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > Sun, > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > on > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > Ketu > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-1988 > ( > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > deg. > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > 76.49 > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14 > > deg. away).> > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > myth). > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > As > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and > 3-> > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > eclipses > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > degree > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > Thus > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > All > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then > I > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > them.> > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played > an > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > immense > > faith over astrology+astrologe r hence predictive astrology appears > to > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree > > with the above observation after going through my original > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > do > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre-> > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > pre-> > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > then > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > cascading > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre-> > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > Tom, > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > You > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > prewritten) > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > but > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > planets?> > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > that > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > astronomy > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > correct. > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still > if > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi. org Because modern > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > of > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of > > Universe, solar system.> > > > It would be better to know the roots of astrology and facts, data > > behind it before falling in the trap and come forward to join hands > > because of AIDS (Astrology Is Damaging Society).> > Sanat Kumar Jain> > Think differen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Dear Mr. Ravi Chandran, Thank you very much. I was not aware of this 'forward' page of this site. Thank you very much to make me aware of this. Regards, and I owe you great respect, A.V.Pathi, Jagadisan Ravichandran <jnravi Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 11:46:08 AMRe: Re: Astrology a science or myth Dear Mr Pathi I am also a member of this forum. Atleast I was, now I am a silent member. I was mislead by the name of the forum to believe that there is truely some scientific research going on. Later on I found out that the only aim of this group is to call astrologers to participate and then do mud slinging on them and degrade them. To instigate them and then make fun of them. This is being very actively carried out by Mr Sanat and his stooge Dipika. They not only do mud slinging on astrology and astrologers but also degrade great Rishis and Hinduism. So I would advie u as a friend not to write anything in this forum but be a silent member and watch what is going on. If possible do the same service to other astrologers who are befooled to join this forum Regards. Ravichandran--- On Tue, 7/15/08, venkatachala pathi <pathiav > wrote: venkatachala pathi <pathiav >Re: Re: Astrology a science or mythTuesday, July 15, 2008, 7:19 PM Dear Mr. Razdan, This is a 'open' group discussion. Your comment " Unless you make the group balanced.... ...." seems to direct that this subject is closed to the extent that it is 'one sided...' No it is not. Unfortunately, People believe in one and they do not believe in the other, and they do not substantiate with authority their reason for 'leaning' on their 'belief'. There is a belief in a section that just 'praising' God or acting in a manner to appease the 'faith' will lead them to prosperity from their existing level. Is it a 'myth' or 'science'? That I call it a 'myth'. I call it that one tries to 'bribe' or 'influence' God and take the concept cheaply. Analyzing and understanding any subject with rules and theorems, corollaries, and Ryder's are said to be a scientific analysis. Astrology comes under this category to be classified as 'scientific' . A person's entire life is not enough to understand the intricacies of this great old subject. This subject is older than any presently practiced religion. A.V.Pathi, North Carolina, 27514, USApnrazdan <pnrazdan >Tuesday, July 15, 2008 10:27:41 AM Re: Astrology a science or myth Dear Sanat,I have read most of the posts on the group as also your latest post complaining that members are not reacting to your views.In my opinion, the discussion in this group is one-sided. You as well as one or two members are obsessed with "proving" that Vedic astrology is a myth by trying to demolish arguments of all supporters without any counter facts.Some members also use language of hatred and make it almost a tirade against VA. It looks like the name of this group should have been kept as "Myth of Astrology" rather than Science of Astrology.I also wanted to elaborate on my views in support of VA but found no use since the forum is not open and not evenly placed. I am sure many others are feeling like that. Unless you make the group balanced and improve the quality of discussions, I am afraid, it may not attract members contributions.Regards,P.N.Razdan, "Wes Stillwagon" <wstillwagon1@ ...> wrote:>> , "sanat2221" > <sanatkumar_ jain@> wrote:> >> > > > Resp. members,> > We are not receiving any msg with some new point of discussion on > > astrology to analyze it's correctness. Hence I am enclosing my old > > blog placed in the file section so that members may read it and > > comment on any point. Some astrologer members are not reacting with > a > > fear to loose their reputation in other forums though they are > > silently reading the msg. Hence if they want they can interact on > my > > email sanatkumar_jain@> > > > So far members have observed that supporters of astrology are > either > > interested in by passing the main point or they have only faith on > > astrology without any scientific or logical support to any concept. > > Thus they want to live in ignorance and pursuing others to follow > the > > path of ignorance. > > > > I hope to have some reaction of the members as I am always > interested > > in looking deep.> > > > Thanks> > Sanat> > > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH> > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > depth > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. > So > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > examine > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing > in > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > the > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > you > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an > > astrologer in the consumer forum.> > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > religious > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon, > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > sages > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > predict > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.> > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > etc. > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > everybody > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate > of > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > principles > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > percolated > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > system.> > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle within > a > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc., > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > astrological > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > come > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead, > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > that > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > But > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > level > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated , Aspect, Vinshottary > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > following > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara).> > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?> > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….> > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > each > > other) ?> > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > nector after sea-churning………..> > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > quarter > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh > > house) ?> > Based on the position of army in the battle field………..> > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > sign) ?> > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the > > day is more in comparison to night……> > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > of > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > (a > > small planet) has 20 years ?> > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….> > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > between > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?> > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….> > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?> > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..> > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?> > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..> > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg. > > apart?> > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..> > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?> > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month……….> > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > answers to these questions then he will realize that entire > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > Universe.> > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > beyond > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > astrology > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > of > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.> > After lot of research I wrote an original book on > astrology "Jyotish -> > Kitna sahi kitna galat" in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > the > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > basis > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in English > > with the title "Astrology a science or myth" (450 pages). The book > is > > being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > Refer http://www.bokklubb en.no/samboweb/ produkt.do?produktID=1759836> > > > http://www.thebookp lace.com/ bookplace/ results-asp? AUB=sanat%20kumar%> > 20jain & TAG= & CID=> > > > http://www.aggarwal overseas. com/booksdetail. aspx?> > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t> > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > they > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > of > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > concept > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11". It was mentioned > in > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14 > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > nobody > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > Sun, > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > on > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > Ketu > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-1988 > ( > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > deg. > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > 76.49 > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14 > > deg. away).> > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > myth). > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > As > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and > 3-> > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > eclipses > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > degree > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > Thus > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > All > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then > I > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > them.> > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played > an > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > immense > > faith over astrology+astrologe r hence predictive astrology appears > to > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree > > with the above observation after going through my original > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > do > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre-> > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > pre-> > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > then > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > cascading > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre-> > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > Tom, > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > You > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > prewritten) > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > but > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > planets?> > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > that > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > astronomy > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > correct. > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still > if > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi. org Because modern > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > of > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of > > Universe, solar system.> > > > It would be better to know the roots of astrology and facts, data > > behind it before falling in the trap and come forward to join hands > > because of AIDS (Astrology Is Damaging Society).> > Sanat Kumar Jain> > Think differen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Resp. Razdan Ji, Namaskar, Thanks. I am taking your last line of the msg. >>>>>>>> Unless you make the group balanced and improve the quality of discussions, I am afraid, it may not attract members contributions.<<<<<<< So how I can balance when so called astrologers are not able to defend their stand or support the predictive principals, then what I can do except to invite some more astrologers for balancing the discussion. I know that contribution from the members (even on various basic questions incorporated in SOA______ files or in my blog) are not coming, because astrologers only have faith on astrology and nothing else. That's why they try to cover up the fault of astrology (predictive) by using the word " Vedic astrology " , which was coined by Sh. Gupta in a conference in Delhi, or by branding it as science. Because they know the mindset of public, who either have faith on Ved or on science. Thus astrologer (all) exploit it. You have seen that all astrological books in their first chapter incorporates various information about the planets and solar system collected from NASA. That's why every reader of astrology thinks that astrology is science and our sages were very expert. But they don't know that our sages were neither aware with the solar system nor they have such information about the planets. Is it not befooling the public in the name of Ved or science. Remember I am not criticizing the knowledge of sages. As I have mentioned in earlier msg that science is neither new nor old. Thus knowledge of our sages were also science but now we have much more correct knowledge. So is it not good to remember our sages on the name of our great old knowledge instead of branding them with modern knowledge. It is like we may praise our fort and try to say that our kings were so skilled that they can defend missile attack. So we must have proud on our heritage instead of mixing the knowledge of NASA with Ved. Thus name of the forum is right and we must analyze predictive principles without any faith or fear to find the bare truth. I am also not agree with your opinion >>>>>>>>> I also wanted to elaborate on my views in support of VA but found no use since the forum is not open and not evenly placed. I am sure many others are feeling like that.<<<<<<<<<<<< because am I not permitting your or others msg in the forum or am I not incorporating your or others views in the compilation (SOA______ files in the file section) or am I not inviting astrologers in the forum or don't you have more members in your support (If they are silent then it is not my fault. They know that they have no reply on various points) instead of opposing the astrology. This is the only forum where astrological principles are being analyzed and having more members in support of astrology. So it is balanced in your favour. Whereas almost all forums are one sided and moderator will never allow any opposite views. So how you can say that it is not balanced in your favour. Again your last line >>>>> Unless you make the group balanced and improve the quality of discussions,<<<<<. Thus if you still feel that you do not have supporter then you can invite your friends. I am repeatedly requesting all members for inviting other astrologers. Quality of discussion will only improve if members will stick to analysis of predictive principals instead of satisfying their own ego without any logical stand and not with observing silence for fear of exposure. I request every member to share his views, why they are afraid, when they have not formulated the astrological principles. I have also gone through your article, which you have referred in your earlier msg. and picked up following line for analysis. >>>>>>For appreciating the knowledge of astrology, one has to go beyond the cause-effect relationship that present day scientific knowledge is based on.<<<<<<<< In this connection I will like to say that when astrological principles were formulated in primitive age (or varahmihir or after that) on the basis of concept of deity or demons. Then whether our sages were not taking the course of cause-effect? Actually they were only adopting the concept of cause-effect relationship, which is very clear in every basic principal (sign lord, aspect, friendship-enmity, exalted, Rahu/ketu and so on) and subsequently all predictive principles were also formulated on cause-effect basis. You can refer any principle, which says so and so position (aspect, friendship and so on …….) will result so and so result because so and so planet has so and so affect from other planet. Is it not cause-effect. Actually astrologers are exploiting the faith of public on sages by such words so that public may be pleased by saying that sages were great and science (most of the person use this word as if it has been thrown on their head by some western aliens) is not able to decode the concept of our sages. If predictive principle is not cause-effect then definitely it would have been the inference of the astrologer according to the mind set of the client. Thus you can draw any reference by tossing a coin, because head and tail actually do not have cause-effect relationship with your decision based on head and tail. Thus astrologer will like to say that information contained in the book is not discovered by sages or conclusion drawn from horoscope after applying principles are not cause-effect but only random conclusion. If it is so then why they are advising remedy for planets by wearing gem etc, if it is not cause-effect relationship. Even if I agree with your views that it is not cause-effect relationship and even present scientific knowledge is not able to decode it, then why every astrologer is trying to befool innocent public when he don't know about the cause of event. In this situation we must immediately stop this practice as we are not able to know the reason of event. And first we must know the reason then we must tell the future. You have simply forwarded a msg and not given any reply on various points raised in my earlier msg to you. If you continue to left the point then what I can say except that members do not have any reply. Thus every member is actually diverting the point without admitting that he don't have reply. I always try to give pointwise reply on almost every point. Hope to have more msg. in future. Remember nothing is personal and it is only academic discussion. Thanks Yours truly, Sanat Gwalior , " pnrazdan " <pnrazdan wrote: > > Dear Sanat, > I have read most of the posts on the group as also your latest post > complaining that members are not reacting to your views. > In my opinion, the discussion in this group is one-sided. You as well > as one or two members are obsessed with " proving " that Vedic > astrology is a myth by trying to demolish arguments of all supporters > without any counter facts.Some members also use language of hatred > and make it almost a tirade against VA. It looks like the name of > this group should have been kept as " Myth of Astrology " rather than > Science of Astrology. > I also wanted to elaborate on my views in support of VA but found no > use since the forum is not open and not evenly placed. I am sure many > others are feeling like that. > Unless you make the group balanced and improve the quality of > discussions, I am afraid, it may not attract members contributions. > Regards, > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > , " Wes Stillwagon " > <wstillwagon1@> wrote: > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Resp. members, > > > We are not receiving any msg with some new point of discussion on > > > astrology to analyze it's correctness. Hence I am enclosing my > old > > > blog placed in the file section so that members may read it and > > > comment on any point. Some astrologer members are not reacting > with > > a > > > fear to loose their reputation in other forums though they are > > > silently reading the msg. Hence if they want they can interact on > > my > > > email sanatkumar_jain@ > > > > > > So far members have observed that supporters of astrology are > > either > > > interested in by passing the main point or they have only faith > on > > > astrology without any scientific or logical support to any > concept. > > > Thus they want to live in ignorance and pursuing others to follow > > the > > > path of ignorance. > > > > > > I hope to have some reaction of the members as I am always > > interested > > > in looking deep. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Sanat > > > > > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > > depth > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like > this. > > So > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to > whether > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due > to > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want > to > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > > examine > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you > have > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing > > in > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > > the > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > > you > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call > an > > > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > > religious > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, > Moon, > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > > sages > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > > predict > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called > grabbing > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > > etc. > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is > still > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > > everybody > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, > it > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate > of > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the > fate > > of > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of > sages > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > > principles > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > > percolated > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles > were > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > > system. > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to > fit > > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle > within > > a > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith > etc., > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > > astrological > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > > come > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start > self > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only > mislead, > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > > that > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > > But > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > > level > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > > following > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in > subpara). > > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > > each > > > other) ? > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > > nector after sea-churning……….. > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > > quarter > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on > seventh > > > house) ? > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted > and > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > > sign) ? > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of > the > > > day is more in comparison to night…… > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > > of > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > > (a > > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > > between > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the > structure > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 > deg. > > > apart? > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > > answers to these questions then he will realize that entire > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > > Universe. > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any > old > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > > beyond > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > > astrology > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination > is > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive > concept > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view > of > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > > of > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on > > astrology " Jyotish - > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > > the > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > > basis > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages > to > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in > English > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). The > book > > is > > > being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do? > produktID=1759836 > > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat% > 20kumar% > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > > they > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > > of > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > > concept > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was > mentioned > > in > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within > 14 > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > > nobody > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > > Sun, > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > > on > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > > Ketu > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03- > 1988 > > ( > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar > eclipses > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > > deg. > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > > 76.49 > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was > 15.14 > > > deg. away). > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will > also > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at > the > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was > not > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > > myth). > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when > Moon > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > > As > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 > and > > 3- > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full > solar > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > > eclipses > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > > degree > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > > Thus > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > > All > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this > fundamental > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want > then > > I > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > > them. > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but > in > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) > played > > an > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > > immense > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology > appears > > to > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also > agree > > > with the above observation after going through my original > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as > was > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > > do > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > > pre- > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > > then > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > > cascading > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > > Tom, > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good > deed > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > > You > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can > never > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > > prewritten) > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > > but > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can > be > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > > planets? > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > > that > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > > astronomy > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > > correct. > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. > Still > > if > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The > James > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > > of > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this > regard > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information > of > > > Universe, solar system. > > > > > > It would be better to know the roots of astrology and facts, data > > > behind it before falling in the trap and come forward to join > hands > > > because of AIDS (Astrology Is Damaging Society). > > > Sanat Kumar Jain > > > Think differently, Think logically and Think scientifically > > > > > Im afraid that your " logic " and " thinking " is a bit off base on > this > > topic. Swiss Psychiatrist, Alexander Newton, Copernicus, Albert > > Einstein, Kepler, Frank Brown, Northwestern University, Makai > Takata, > > Toho University, and thousands of qualified and honored scientists > > agree that there is indeed a science called astrology. Newton said > > the following to Hally (comet) fame when he challenged the validity > > of astrology, " Sir I've studied the subject, you have not! " > > YOu are way off base and your examination of the subject is > > incomplete, your conclusions are without merit. > > > > Wes > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Respected Jagdisan Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your msg., (to Sh. Pathi) after a long time. Previously you were writing some msgs. on which I was offering my opinion on every point. But suddenly you have stopped writing when I request you to be polite in language specially when we are addressing some woman. I think it is not a mud slinging as it is general courtsy. So how can Dipika be my stooge? Now I take your pointwise allegation. >>>>>>> I was mislead by the name of the forum to believe that there is truely some scientific research going on. Later on I found out that the only aim of this group is to call astrologers to participate and then do mud slinging on them and degrade them.<<<<<<< Please quote some of my reply when I do mud slinging on a participating astrologer. I think discussion and putting our views, raising question is not a mud slinging. Discussion is our long tradition and it was known as shastrath, and final opinion after prolong shashtrath was adopted. This forum is meant for shastrath and there after it is up to the members to adopt what they want. For this I am regularly compiling SOA_____ files comprising the views of participants along with my views. Thus views of astrologers are being included for the benefit of the members to take a queue instead of dumping the msg. So far name of the forum is concerned, we are here to find the truth that is science behind astrology, if it is at all, and not for finding the baseless support for on going astrology (without proper discussion), just due to faith. As faith has nothing to do with truth or science. So how you can draw a reference that I am doing mud slinging. Main point is this (I am sorry to say and it is not for any particular member) that so called astrologers do not have sufficient in depth study of history, religion, development / interaction of civilization and so on except faith or tradition that's why they are not able to defend their stand. That's why astrologers (who may be member in the forum) are not replying on any pointed question such that Who decided sign and how. What is Rahu. How principles were formulated ……….. and so on So I will be the last person for mud slinging but of course I will like discussion. That's why I am writing time and again that " nothing is personal and it is only academic discussion. " . In view of above clarification I think your opinion is base-less, and if not then please come forward with specific points. >>>>>>> To instigate them and then make fun of them.<<<<<<< In which msg I was making the fun of so called astrologers, please intimate. >>>>>> also degrade great Rishis and Hinduism.<<<<< Please intimate when. Again analysis of any concept is not degradation. Actually supporters of astrologers are doing degradation of Rishi and Hinduism. (Please refer the msg Vedic astrology " – the greatest fraud on the Vedas " of our new and learned member Sh. Kaul. I am not producing the paras and let member discuss that msg independently, including you). You have advised to Sh Pathi for not writing the msg. Thus you are actually loosing an opportunity for intimating about your truth or you have fear that your so called truth will not stand in the fire of discussion. So it is always your right to act according to your views. But it is right that I am not befooling any body or just tell any msg when I have done so, like many many astrologers who are not only befooling but exploiting the innocence of their client by making tall claims (at least not in this forum). Actually we have discussed nothing about the predictive astrology except clearing our positions. Thus we are far away from the aim of the forum. I hope and request let us discuss some astrology instead of bypassing the point of discussion, which is only an escape route for astrologers. Why are you worried about the failure of principles of predictive astrology (if it is so) because you have not formulated them. So sharpen your mind and come forward with reply on various points grouped in SOA_______ files or on my blog. Thanks for your valuable time Remember nothing is personal and it is only academic discussion. Yours truly, Sanat PS: I am not replying the msg of Sh. Pathi and hope he will share his views on the advice in view of above observation and take part in discussion on a point of predictive astrology. Ms. Dipika ji, we have not received your msg since long. Now Jagdisan Ji is remembering you. , Jagadisan Ravichandran <jnravi wrote: > > Dear Mr Pathi > > I am also a member of this forum. Atleast I was, now I am a silent member. I was mislead by the name of the forum to believe that there is truely some scientific research going on. Later on I found out that the only aim of this group is to call astrologers to participate and then do mud slinging on them and degrade them. To instigate them and then make fun of them. This is being very actively carried out by Mr Sanat and his stooge Dipika. They not only do mud slinging on astrology and astrologers but also degrade great Rishis and Hinduism. > > So I would advie u as a friend not to write anything in this forum but be a silent member and watch what is going on. If possible do the same service to other astrologers who are befooled to join this forum > Regards. > > Ravichandran > > --- On Tue, 7/15/08, venkatachala pathi <pathiav wrote: > > venkatachala pathi <pathiav > Re: Re: Astrology a science or myth > > Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 7:19 PM > > > Dear Mr. Razdan, > > This is a 'open' group discussion. Your comment " Unless you make the group balanced.... .... " seems to direct that this subject is closed to the extent that it is 'one sided...' No it is not. Unfortunately, People believe in one and they do not believe in the other, and they do not substantiate with authority their reason for 'leaning' on their 'belief'. There is a belief in a section that just 'praising' God or acting in a manner to appease the 'faith' will lead them to prosperity from their existing level. Is it a 'myth' or 'science'? That I call it a 'myth'. I call it that one tries to 'bribe' or 'influence' God and take the concept cheaply. Analyzing and understanding any subject with rules and theorems, corollaries, and Ryder's are said to be a scientific analysis. Astrology comes under this category to be classified as 'scientific' . A person's entire life is not enough to understand the intricacies of this great old > subject. This subject is older than any presently practiced religion. > > A.V.Pathi, > North Carolina, 27514, USA > > pnrazdan <pnrazdan > > > Tuesday, July 15, 2008 10:27:41 AM > Re: Astrology a science or myth > > > > Dear Sanat, > I have read most of the posts on the group as also your latest post > complaining that members are not reacting to your views. > In my opinion, the discussion in this group is one-sided. You as well > as one or two members are obsessed with " proving " that Vedic > astrology is a myth by trying to demolish arguments of all supporters > without any counter facts.Some members also use language of hatred > and make it almost a tirade against VA. It looks like the name of > this group should have been kept as " Myth of Astrology " rather than > Science of Astrology. > I also wanted to elaborate on my views in support of VA but found no > use since the forum is not open and not evenly placed. I am sure many > others are feeling like that. > Unless you make the group balanced and improve the quality of > discussions, I am afraid, it may not attract members contributions. > Regards, > P.N.Razdan > > , " Wes Stillwagon " > <wstillwagon1@ ...> wrote: > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > <sanatkumar_ jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Resp. members, > > > We are not receiving any msg with some new point of discussion on > > > astrology to analyze it's correctness. Hence I am enclosing my > old > > > blog placed in the file section so that members may read it and > > > comment on any point. Some astrologer members are not reacting > with > > a > > > fear to loose their reputation in other forums though they are > > > silently reading the msg. Hence if they want they can interact on > > my > > > email sanatkumar_jain@ > > > > > > So far members have observed that supporters of astrology are > > either > > > interested in by passing the main point or they have only faith > on > > > astrology without any scientific or logical support to any > concept. > > > Thus they want to live in ignorance and pursuing others to follow > > the > > > path of ignorance. > > > > > > I hope to have some reaction of the members as I am always > > interested > > > in looking deep. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Sanat > > > > > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > > depth > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like > this. > > So > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to > whether > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due > to > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want > to > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > > examine > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you > have > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing > > in > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > > the > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > > you > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call > an > > > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > > religious > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, > Moon, > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > > sages > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > > predict > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called > grabbing > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > > etc. > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is > still > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > > everybody > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, > it > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate > of > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the > fate > > of > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of > sages > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > > principles > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > > percolated > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles > were > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > > system. > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to > fit > > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle > within > > a > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith > etc., > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > > astrological > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > > come > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start > self > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only > mislead, > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > > that > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > > But > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > > level > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated , Aspect, Vinshottary > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > > following > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in > subpara). > > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > > each > > > other) ? > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > > nector after sea-churning……….. > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > > quarter > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on > seventh > > > house) ? > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted > and > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > > sign) ? > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of > the > > > day is more in comparison to night…… > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > > of > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > > (a > > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > > between > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the > structure > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 > deg. > > > apart? > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > > answers to these questions then he will realize that entire > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > > Universe. > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any > old > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > > beyond > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > > astrology > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination > is > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive > concept > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view > of > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > > of > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on > > astrology " Jyotish - > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > > the > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > > basis > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages > to > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in > English > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). The > book > > is > > > being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > > Refer http://www.bokklubb en.no/samboweb/ produkt.do? > produktID=1759836 > > > > > > http://www.thebookp lace.com/ bookplace/ results-asp? AUB=sanat% > 20kumar% > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > > > > > http://www.aggarwal overseas. com/booksdetail. aspx? > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > > they > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > > of > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > > concept > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was > mentioned > > in > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within > 14 > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > > nobody > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > > Sun, > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > > on > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > > Ketu > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03- > 1988 > > ( > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar > eclipses > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > > deg. > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > > 76.49 > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was > 15.14 > > > deg. away). > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will > also > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at > the > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was > not > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > > myth). > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when > Moon > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > > As > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 > and > > 3- > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full > solar > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > > eclipses > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > > degree > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > > Thus > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > > All > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this > fundamental > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want > then > > I > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > > them. > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but > in > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) > played > > an > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > > immense > > > faith over astrology+astrologe r hence predictive astrology > appears > > to > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also > agree > > > with the above observation after going through my original > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as > was > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > > do > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > > pre- > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > > then > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > > cascading > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > > Tom, > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good > deed > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > > You > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can > never > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > > prewritten) > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > > but > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can > be > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > > planets? > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > > that > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > > astronomy > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > > correct. > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. > Still > > if > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The > James > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi. org Because modern > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > > of > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this > regard > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information > of > > > Universe, solar system. > > > > > > It would be better to know the roots of astrology and facts, data > > > behind it before falling in the trap and come forward to join > hands > > > because of AIDS (Astrology Is Damaging Society). > > > Sanat Kumar Jain > > > Think differen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Resp. Pathi Ji, Namaskar, Thanks and welcome for your first msg. addressed to Sh. Razdan ji. I am taking following portion from the msg >>>>>>>> Analyzing and understanding any subject with rules and theorems, corollaries, and Ryder's are said to be a scientific analysis. Astrology comes under this category to be classified as 'scientific' . <<<<<<<< Yes, you are right. We are analyzing the principles of predictive astrology as to how they were formulated, what was the basic knowledge at the time of formulation of astrological principles, whether astrological principles and procedure for formulating them was scientific, logical, valid in view of modern knowledge and so on. Actually our vedic tradition was only limited to transit of planets (Sun Moon…). It has nothing to do with predictive astrology. It has since been infused in the mind on public at large that astrology is science and it is Vedic. Whereas astronomy was vedic but so called astrologers (all) have left the astronomy (which was actually vedic and knowledge of our sages) and not following the procedure adopted by them (like surya siddhant – though it was developed later on by Yawan's) and taking the data from NASA and infusing in the society in the name of our sages because they know that society will never accept the data from NASA. So actually vedic tradition are not being followed and concept of Greek who devised the sign and so on has been propagated in the name of sages for business considerations. This is the hard fact. That's why astrologers are not discussing on vaious astrological principles. But aim of the forum is very clear to analyze every principle for finding the truth. That's why I am compiling various views in SOA______files for members to decide what is right or what is wrong. This is the idea behind forward page of the site. I hope it is clear in view of your comments >>>>>>>> I was not aware of this 'forward' page of this site.<<<<<<<<< Thanks and hope to have more fruitful msg in the future. Nothing is personal. Yours truly, Sanat , venkatachala pathi <pathiav wrote: > > Dear Mr. Ravi Chandran, > Thank you very much. I was not aware of this 'forward' page of this site. Thank you very much to make me aware of this. > Regards, and I owe you great respect, > > A.V.Pathi, > > > > > > Jagadisan Ravichandran <jnravi > > Tuesday, July 15, 2008 11:46:08 AM > Re: Re: Astrology a science or myth > > > Dear Mr Pathi > > I am also a member of this forum. Atleast I was, now I am a silent member. I was mislead by the name of the forum to believe that there is truely some scientific research going on. Later on I found out that the only aim of this group is to call astrologers to participate and then do mud slinging on them and degrade them. To instigate them and then make fun of them. This is being very actively carried out by Mr Sanat and his stooge Dipika. They not only do mud slinging on astrology and astrologers but also degrade great Rishis and Hinduism. > > So I would advie u as a friend not to write anything in this forum but be a silent member and watch what is going on. If possible do the same service to other astrologers who are befooled to join this forum > Regards. > > Ravichandran > > --- On Tue, 7/15/08, venkatachala pathi <pathiav > wrote: > > venkatachala pathi <pathiav > > Re: Re: Astrology a science or myth > > Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 7:19 PM > > > Dear Mr. Razdan, > > This is a 'open' group discussion. Your comment " Unless you make the group balanced.... .... " seems to direct that this subject is closed to the extent that it is 'one sided...' No it is not. Unfortunately, People believe in one and they do not believe in the other, and they do not substantiate with authority their reason for 'leaning' on their 'belief'. There is a belief in a section that just 'praising' God or acting in a manner to appease the 'faith' will lead them to prosperity from their existing level. Is it a 'myth' or 'science'? That I call it a 'myth'. I call it that one tries to 'bribe' or 'influence' God and take the concept cheaply. Analyzing and understanding any subject with rules and theorems, corollaries, and Ryder's are said to be a scientific analysis. Astrology comes under this category to be classified as 'scientific' . A person's entire life is not enough to understand the intricacies of this great old > subject. This subject is older than any presently practiced religion. > > A.V.Pathi, > North Carolina, 27514, USA > > pnrazdan <pnrazdan > > > Tuesday, July 15, 2008 10:27:41 AM > Re: Astrology a science or myth > > > Dear Sanat, > I have read most of the posts on the group as also your latest post > complaining that members are not reacting to your views. > In my opinion, the discussion in this group is one-sided. You as well > as one or two members are obsessed with " proving " that Vedic > astrology is a myth by trying to demolish arguments of all supporters > without any counter facts.Some members also use language of hatred > and make it almost a tirade against VA. It looks like the name of > this group should have been kept as " Myth of Astrology " rather than > Science of Astrology. > I also wanted to elaborate on my views in support of VA but found no > use since the forum is not open and not evenly placed. I am sure many > others are feeling like that. > Unless you make the group balanced and improve the quality of > discussions, I am afraid, it may not attract members contributions. > Regards, > P.N.Razdan > > , " Wes Stillwagon " > <wstillwagon1@ ...> wrote: > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > <sanatkumar_ jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Resp. members, > > > We are not receiving any msg with some new point of discussion on > > > astrology to analyze it's correctness. Hence I am enclosing my > old > > > blog placed in the file section so that members may read it and > > > comment on any point. Some astrologer members are not reacting > with > > a > > > fear to loose their reputation in other forums though they are > > > silently reading the msg. Hence if they want they can interact on > > my > > > email sanatkumar_jain@ > > > > > > So far members have observed that supporters of astrology are > > either > > > interested in by passing the main point or they have only faith > on > > > astrology without any scientific or logical support to any > concept. > > > Thus they want to live in ignorance and pursuing others to follow > > the > > > path of ignorance. > > > > > > I hope to have some reaction of the members as I am always > > interested > > > in looking deep. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Sanat > > > > > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > > depth > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like > this. > > So > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to > whether > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due > to > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want > to > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > > examine > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you > have > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing > > in > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > > the > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > > you > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call > an > > > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > > religious > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, > Moon, > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > > sages > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > > predict > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called > grabbing > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > > etc. > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is > still > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > > everybody > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, > it > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate > of > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the > fate > > of > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of > sages > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > > principles > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > > percolated > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles > were > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > > system. > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to > fit > > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle > within > > a > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith > etc., > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > > astrological > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > > come > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start > self > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only > mislead, > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > > that > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > > But > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > > level > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated , Aspect, Vinshottary > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > > following > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in > subpara). > > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > > each > > > other) ? > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > > nector after sea-churning……….. > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > > quarter > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on > seventh > > > house) ? > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted > and > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > > sign) ? > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of > the > > > day is more in comparison to night…… > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > > of > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > > (a > > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > > between > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the > structure > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 > deg. > > > apart? > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > > answers to these questions then he will realize that entire > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > > Universe. > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any > old > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > > beyond > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > > astrology > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination > is > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive > concept > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view > of > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > > of > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on > > astrology " Jyotish - > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > > the > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > > basis > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages > to > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in > English > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). The > book > > is > > > being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > > Refer http://www.bokklubb en.no/samboweb/ produkt.do? > produktID=1759836 > > > > > > http://www.thebookp lace.com/ bookplace/ results-asp? AUB=sanat% > 20kumar% > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > > > > > http://www.aggarwal overseas. com/booksdetail. aspx? > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > > they > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > > of > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > > concept > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was > mentioned > > in > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within > 14 > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > > nobody > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > > Sun, > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > > on > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > > Ketu > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03- > 1988 > > ( > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar > eclipses > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > > deg. > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > > 76.49 > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was > 15.14 > > > deg. away). > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will > also > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at > the > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was > not > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > > myth). > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when > Moon > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > > As > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 > and > > 3- > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full > solar > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > > eclipses > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > > degree > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > > Thus > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > > All > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this > fundamental > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want > then > > I > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > > them. > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but > in > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) > played > > an > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > > immense > > > faith over astrology+astrologe r hence predictive astrology > appears > > to > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also > agree > > > with the above observation after going through my original > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as > was > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > > do > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > > pre- > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > > then > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > > cascading > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > > Tom, > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good > deed > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > > You > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can > never > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > > prewritten) > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > > but > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can > be > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > > planets? > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > > that > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > > astronomy > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > > correct. > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. > Still > > if > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The > James > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi. org Because modern > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > > of > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this > regard > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information > of > > > Universe, solar system. > > > > > > It would be better to know the roots of astrology and facts, data > > > behind it before falling in the trap and come forward to join > hands > > > because of AIDS (Astrology Is Damaging Society). > > > Sanat Kumar Jain > > > Think differen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Resp. Ghopal Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your msg. >>>>>>>No wonder why there is one to discuss in the forum. Your moto think differently,logically and scientifically calls off your entire life on it. You can go on thinking; but no avail.<<<<<< Yes, you are right. When our motto is to get some benefit by cheating others then who will like to think differently, logically and scientifically, which may endup in futile exercise. But what can be done. Every logical person has to face it. If you know little history then you can read that different thinking of Aryabhatt was not accepted by Varahmihir, Brahamgupt and so on. Now every body is trying to accept the concept of spherical earth and infusing it in the mouth of sages. Who were of the opinion that Earth is stationary and sun is only 1 lakh Yojan from the Earth and Moon is 2 lakh yojan from the earh and so on. Why astrologers are not writing in their books that they have left the concept of sages and promoting the concept of NASA. Even you are not able to answer any question including eclipse. Though I have not asked about the eclipse because you will not find any scripture where it was mentioned that eclipse is due to shadow of earth or Moon. You can not even provide the maths behind it. For your kind information Rahu was treated as only reason for eclipse even Ketu was not mentioned anywhere as responsible for eclipse. But due to actual eclipse when Rahu was 180 deg away, there was always confusion about the actual cause of eclipse. But due to imaginary retrograde motion of rahu ketu, eclipse was traced. After scientific concept about the solar system it was initially not accepted but in last 50 years it has been accepted by the society. Thus astrologer also tried to amend and find a new trick to befool the public by claiming that Rahu ketu is intersection point of orbit. But is it mentioned by any sages NO. Because in their concept Moon was above the Sun then how Moon can create shadow. Thus I have raised a point in my blog that when Rahu Ketu is intersection point of orbit and total solar eclipse is visible, it means Sun and Moon are on the intersection point, and Rahu ketu must be also on the intersection point. But according to almanac rahu is 11-12 degree away from the intersection point. Then my question was that why rahu is not on intersection point. Like you, so far not a single astrologer has come forward with reply on any point raised in the blog. Like most of the public you are also interested in eating the pudding or exploiting the innocent public without knowing the reason. Unfortunately this forum is meant for knowing the procedure of pudding instead of using it for exploiting the innocent simple minded public for money. So far your allegation about my book is concerned I will like to say that I am not concerned with the promotion of book; it is not my duty, because it is the work of publisher. But I have referred the book so that you may not think that I have suddenly came on the stage without studying astrology. So far free copy is concerned, I am sorry to say that I do not have any spare copy after such a long time. At the most I can arrange it on some discount to you by asking the publisher, if it is not available in your city (?). Actually writing without any question or discussion in scientific forum is wastage of time. So please be specific in your reply on various points if you have some reply, observation, comments for the benefit of analyzing any astrological principle. Thanks, Remember, Nothing is personal. Yours truly, Sanat Gwalior , " TKP Ghopal " <astrogopalji wrote: > > Hi Sanat > No wonder why there is one to discuss in the forum. > Your moto think differently,logically and scientifically calls off your > entire life on it. > You can go on thinking; but no avail. > Out of your 10 questions let me try the last one,timing of eclipse. > Let them takeup any methodology,are you getting the timing of eclipse > appropriately or not. > Why dont you eat the pudding instead of counting the holes in it. > Here you may argue you are not getting it to micro second level. > Who the hell cared to get it to micro level and what is the use of it. > > Actually you need ppl to read your book. > Could you pl send one free,I can assure you to go thro it thoroughly and > give strong comments on it. > > Pl look after your business and kindly do not waste the time of ppl . > Regards > tkp > > > On 6/17/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > > > > Resp. members, > > We are not receiving any msg with some new point of discussion on > > astrology to analyze it's correctness. Hence I am enclosing my old > > blog placed in the file section so that members may read it and > > comment on any point. Some astrologer members are not reacting with a > > fear to loose their reputation in other forums though they are > > silently reading the msg. Hence if they want they can interact on my > > email sanatkumar_jain <sanatkumar_jain%40rediffmail.com> > > > > So far members have observed that supporters of astrology are either > > interested in by passing the main point or they have only faith on > > astrology without any scientific or logical support to any concept. > > Thus they want to live in ignorance and pursuing others to follow the > > path of ignorance. > > > > I hope to have some reaction of the members as I am always interested > > in looking deep. > > > > Thanks > > Sanat > > > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in depth > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. So > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us examine > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing in > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand the > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if you > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an > > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This religious > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon, > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only sages > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to predict > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations etc. > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of everybody > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate of > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These principles > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never percolated > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western system. > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle within a > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc., > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because astrological > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may come > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead, > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find that > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. But > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the level > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then following > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara). > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of each > > other) ? > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > nector after sea-churning……….. > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, quarter > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh > > house) ? > > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > sign) ? > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the > > day is more in comparison to night…… > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub of > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus (a > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations between > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg. > > apart? > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > answers to these questions then he will realize that entire > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > Universe. > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is beyond > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying astrology > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept of > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology " Jyotish - > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains the > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the basis > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in English > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). The book is > > being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do? produktID=1759836 > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat% 20kumar% > > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor they > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence of > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the concept > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was mentioned in > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14 > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But nobody > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when Sun, > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively on > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and Ketu > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03- 1988 ( > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 deg. > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at 76.49 > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14 > > deg. away). > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of myth). > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But As > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and 3- > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar eclipses > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 degree > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. Thus > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. All > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then I > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting them. > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played an > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to immense > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology appears to > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree > > with the above observation after going through my original > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to do > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that pre- > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even then > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a cascading > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every Tom, > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. You > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever prewritten) > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered but > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > planets? > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured that > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only astronomy > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears correct. > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still if > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > website is jref <jref%40randi.org> and http://www.randi.orgBecause modern > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort of > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of > > Universe, solar system. > > > > It would be better to know the roots of astrology and facts, data > > behind it before falling in the trap and come forward to join hands > > because of AIDS (Astrology Is Damaging Society). > > Sanat Kumar Jain > > Think differently, Think logically and Think scientifically > > > > > > > > > > -- > TKP Ghopal > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road, > I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001 > 93666 23444 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Dear P. N. Razdan Sahib, Namaskar Mahara! Regarding the discussion whether astrology is a science or myth, I am personally of the opinion that astrology is a way of making a fool of a common man! How I arrived at such a conclusion, let me narrate in brief! As you are aware, I am also from Srinagar, Kashmir. I was myself immersed deep in all the " attributes " of astrology right from " Badsharwar " (sade-sati) to " Tekini-milanavuni " (Patri Milapak) etc. etc. My maternal grandfather, late Shri Nath Ji Shastri (Pajnoo) of Chundapura, Srinagar, Kashmir was a very reputed astrologer, though he never charged any thing from anybody! Probably you might have heard his name there! I inherited a lot of Sanskrit literature---including books on astrology----from him, which, unfortunately, got destroyed in 1990 because of the political disturbances there. You must also be aware that till about 1985 there was only one Janri/Panchang there in Srinagar and that was Vijay-eshwar Jantri/panchang which was being published for the last about two centuries. My grandpa was an avid reader of the same in Sharda script. I was under the impression that that was a divine work as otherwise how could a human being calculate the planetary positions! I would take every word of the same as gospel truth and read my Rashiphal and " amdani-kharch ka naksha " etc. etc. at least fifteen to twenty times. From there I " graduated " to Brihat Parashari, Manasagari, Brihat Jatakam, Sanket Nidhi, Kheta-Kautukam etc. etc. In fact there is perhaps not even a signle book on predictive gimmicks whether in Sanskrit or Urdu or Hindi or English that I have not gone through and tested and tried in day to day life! When quite a few predictions did not come true in spite of the same having been made as per impeccable jyotisha-shastras, I started delving deep into astronomy, both sidhantic and astrophysics! Regarding " mundane affairs " i.e. the fate of our " Moj kasheer " (Mother Kashmir) we had nobody else to fall back upon except what our Vijayeshwar-wala told us! He was our friend, philospher and guide! And unfortunately for the KP community, he let us down badly becuase during the years 1989 and 1990, when insurgency was at its hieght in Kashmir, he had repeated/assured in his Jantri that peace would reign in the valley! AND you are fully aware as to what type of peace it was---we became refugees in our own motherland and quite a few KPs were butchered and quite a few Kashmiri ladies raped and enslaved for lives! And that was the peace that Vijayeshwarwala had predicted for " Moj Kahseer " ! (That reminds me of the fate of our nighbour, the only Hindu kingdom of yesteryears, where the erstwhile king--an Incarnation of Visnhu!-- was murdered by his own son the crown prince since the jyotishis there did not allow the King to marry the crown prince to his sweet heart as their " patri-melapak was not having the requisite number of gunas " !) To add insult to injury, the same Vijayeswhar-wala admitted in his 1994 or 1995 jantri that till then he was making calculations from " Makaranda " but now he would start doing so from " drik- ganita " ! He had the cheek to say further that till then he was doing the calcuatons from " Makaranda " only because his competitors i.e. Brahmana Maha-mandal was doing so! Coming to calculations part, Vedic Hindus have never bothered about predictive gimmicks, at least not the rashi-based ones! As such, the very first work of planetary astronomy in India is the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha! Ironically, that is the most absurd astronomical work that anybody could every produce! Still more inronically, Varahamihira, " the greatest astrologer of the last 1500 years " has praised that very Surya Sidhanta to the skies in his Pnahcasidhantika! And Varahamihira is supposed to have made accurate Predictions! Not only Varahamihira, but his son Prithuyashas is also said to have done so and there are quite a few astrological works by both of them! Right from the date of the Surya Sidhanta i.e. about 2nd century BCE, till about a hundred years back, all the panchanga-makers of India were basing their calculations on either the Surya Sidhanta or Aryabhati or Arya Sidhanta or later on some other Karna-grantha which just circumamublated around the Surya Sidhanta! In other words, right from the date of the Surya Sidhanta of Pancha- sidhantika till about a hundred years back, i.e. till the advent of planetary data from Greenwich and other observatories, we never had a correct panchanga! The planetary positions in the earlier panchangas were wrong by as many as twenty degrees very often! If you somehow reconciled one error by taking refuge in one ayanamsha, another error would crop up which was more horrendous than the one that was removed! And as is common knowledge, horoscopes whether of a common man or a Maharaja, are prepared from panchangas available in the market! The million dollar question that arises is that if there were no correct panchangas available till about a hundred years back, how on earth could any predictions based on the horscopes prepared from the same be correct! And if someone can make correct predictions from incorrect data, he is said to be a charlatan! In other wrods, all the Hindu astrology was " astrology by charlatans, for charlatans and of charlatans " . To crown it all, we call that very astrology now " Vedic astrology " . " Kudos " to such astrologers, especially, since this " Vedic (actualy anti-Vedic!) astrology " has made us celebrate all our festivals on wrong days! Regards, A K Kaul , " pnrazdan " <pnrazdan wrote: > > Dear Sanat, > I have read most of the posts on the group as also your latest post > complaining that members are not reacting to your views. > In my opinion, the discussion in this group is one-sided. You as well > as one or two members are obsessed with " proving " that Vedic > astrology is a myth by trying to demolish arguments of all supporters > without any counter facts.Some members also use language of hatred > and make it almost a tirade against VA. It looks like the name of > this group should have been kept as " Myth of Astrology " rather than > Science of Astrology. > I also wanted to elaborate on my views in support of VA but found no > use since the forum is not open and not evenly placed. I am sure many > others are feeling like that. > Unless you make the group balanced and improve the quality of > discussions, I am afraid, it may not attract members contributions. > Regards, > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > , " Wes Stillwagon " > <wstillwagon1@> wrote: > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Resp. members, > > > We are not receiving any msg with some new point of discussion on > > > astrology to analyze it's correctness. Hence I am enclosing my > old > > > blog placed in the file section so that members may read it and > > > comment on any point. Some astrologer members are not reacting > with > > a > > > fear to loose their reputation in other forums though they are > > > silently reading the msg. Hence if they want they can interact on > > my > > > email sanatkumar_jain@ > > > > > > So far members have observed that supporters of astrology are > > either > > > interested in by passing the main point or they have only faith > on > > > astrology without any scientific or logical support to any > concept. > > > Thus they want to live in ignorance and pursuing others to follow > > the > > > path of ignorance. > > > > > > I hope to have some reaction of the members as I am always > > interested > > > in looking deep. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Sanat > > > > > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > > depth > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like > this. > > So > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to > whether > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due > to > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want > to > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > > examine > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you > have > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing > > in > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > > the > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > > you > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call > an > > > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > > religious > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, > Moon, > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > > sages > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > > predict > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called > grabbing > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > > etc. > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is > still > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > > everybody > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, > it > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate > of > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the > fate > > of > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of > sages > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > > principles > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > > percolated > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles > were > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > > system. > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to > fit > > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle > within > > a > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith > etc., > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > > astrological > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > > come > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start > self > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only > mislead, > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > > that > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > > But > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > > level > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > > following > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in > subpara). > > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > > each > > > other) ? > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > > nector after sea-churning……….. > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > > quarter > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on > seventh > > > house) ? > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted > and > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > > sign) ? > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of > the > > > day is more in comparison to night…… > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > > of > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > > (a > > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > > between > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the > structure > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 > deg. > > > apart? > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > > answers to these questions then he will realize that entire > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > > Universe. > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any > old > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > > beyond > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > > astrology > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination > is > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive > concept > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view > of > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > > of > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on > > astrology " Jyotish - > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > > the > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > > basis > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages > to > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in > English > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). The > book > > is > > > being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do? > produktID=1759836 > > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat% > 20kumar% > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > > they > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > > of > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > > concept > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was > mentioned > > in > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within > 14 > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > > nobody > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > > Sun, > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > > on > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > > Ketu > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03- > 1988 > > ( > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar > eclipses > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > > deg. > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > > 76.49 > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was > 15.14 > > > deg. away). > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will > also > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at > the > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was > not > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > > myth). > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when > Moon > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > > As > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 > and > > 3- > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full > solar > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > > eclipses > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > > degree > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > > Thus > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > > All > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this > fundamental > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want > then > > I > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > > them. > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but > in > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) > played > > an > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > > immense > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology > appears > > to > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also > agree > > > with the above observation after going through my original > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as > was > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > > do > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > > pre- > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > > then > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > > cascading > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > > Tom, > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good > deed > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > > You > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can > never > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > > prewritten) > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > > but > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can > be > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > > planets? > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > > that > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > > astronomy > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > > correct. > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. > Still > > if > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The > James > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > > of > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this > regard > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information > of > > > Universe, solar system. > > > > > > It would be better to know the roots of astrology and facts, data > > > behind it before falling in the trap and come forward to join > hands > > > because of AIDS (Astrology Is Damaging Society). > > > Sanat Kumar Jain > > > Think differently, Think logically and Think scientifically > > > > > Im afraid that your " logic " and " thinking " is a bit off base on > this > > topic. Swiss Psychiatrist, Alexander Newton, Copernicus, Albert > > Einstein, Kepler, Frank Brown, Northwestern University, Makai > Takata, > > Toho University, and thousands of qualified and honored scientists > > agree that there is indeed a science called astrology. Newton said > > the following to Hally (comet) fame when he challenged the validity > > of astrology, " Sir I've studied the subject, you have not! " > > YOu are way off base and your examination of the subject is > > incomplete, your conclusions are without merit. > > > > Wes > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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