[HinduCalendar] Astrology : faith or fiction ?

[Guest guest]

Dipika ji,

 

Our jyotisham is structured in a way,that our atma vibrates to the same

frequency to that of paramatma,in order to obtain bliss,and escape

repeated birth-death cycles in various bodies.

 

There are instances of children remembering,their past lives,to the

bewilderment of the parents and elders in the family.Majority of the

cases in the world population,we do not remember our past lives in

another body or the future births,based on your current actions.

 

Our rishis,sages,seers etc gave us sets of guidelines to follow,so

that,the goal is acheivable.I believe that there is Vaikuntam.I believe

that gods exist in their own worlds.By adhereing to karmas enunciated by

shastras,i believe,its a map for our future of our souls.

 

That jyotisham is being utilised for palan of present life and material

progress is quiet another issue.I have experianced absolutely phenomenal

predictions thru Nadi jyotisham from palm leaves.There is definitely

lots of things which we are not aware of,but jyotish shastras are true

and if applied correctly,one can predict future,is my opinion.

 

 

 

sb

 

 

, " dipika blr "

<blr.aspirant wrote:

>

> Dear Suresh ji Namaskar,

>

> your statement "

>

> *A more interesting question is: will two persons born at the same

time at

> the same place have the same future? Look at any twins (born within a

minute

> or so) for example.*

>

> The obvious answer is " not necessarily " . However, there are going to

be some

> common patterns in their lives. "

> has been completely debunked by the time twins research project

started in

> 1958.

>

> Regards

> Dips

>

>

> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 8:43 PM, sureshbalaraman <

> sureshbalaraman wrote:

>

> > Will two persons born on the same day have the same future? No.

One's

> > horoscope is not determined just by the date of birth. Time of birth

and

> > place of birth matter too.

> >

> > A more interesting question is: will two persons born at the same

time at

> > the same place have the same future? Look at any twins (born within

a minute

> > or so) for example.

> >

> > The obvious answer is " not necessarily " . However, there are going to

be

> > some common patterns in their lives.

> >

> > Planetary indications are probabilistic in nature. That probability

model

> > can be different for different people. A good astrologer studies the

past of

> > a person and makes a more intelligent assessment of the influences

of

> > various planets.

> >

> > Some indications have a high likelihood and they will hold for

almost all

> > people born together (at the same place and at the same time). Some

> > indications have a low likelihood and they may hold true only for

some.

> >

> > An interesting anecdote (from Prof. B.V. Raman's " Planetary

Influences on

> > Human Affairs " ): In his book " Astro-Physiologic " published at

Leipzig in

> > 1928 K.E. Krafft drew up a list of 72 groups of 2 or 3 people who

were born

> > approximately the same hour, day and place, and invariably, they

have died

> > at about the same age and in a similar manner (ranging from

" bronchial

> > inflammation " to " asphyxiation " to " pulmonary tuberculosis " ). The

data was

> > obtained from civil registers of the towns of Basle and Geneva.

> >

> > Another interesting anecdote: I saw a program on TLC " " The Learning

> > Channel " ) on TV in which they showed several twins who were

separated at

> > birth and met later in life. They found it interesting that the

twins had

> > very similar thinking styles, tastes and often same background (like

taking

> > dance lessons during certain age) despite growing separately. The

theory

> > they proposed attributed it to genes.

> >

> > Higher level astrological indications that have a high probability

hold for

> > almost everyone born at that time (at that place). Lower level (fine

detail)

> > astrological indications that have a low probability hold only for a

few.

> > http://www.vedicastrologer.org/

> >

> > sb

> >

> > HinduCalendar , " dipika blr " blr.aspirant@

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Does the silence of the group to this earlier message mean that

the

> > " *time

> > > twin study* " has effectively sounded the death of astrology as a

science?

> > >

> > > On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:28 PM, dipika blr blr.aspirant@ wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear Readers,

> > > > I am starting a new thread to discuss whether " Astrology is

faith or

> > > > fiction? " .

> > > >

> > > > The old topic discussed whether " fake astrologers have have

brought

> > > > disrepute to astrology "

> > > >

> > > > I think this is just a convenient excuse to address astrology's

> > > > shortcomings. Here I shall focus on how astrological principles

> > themselves

> > > > are questionable.

> > > >

> > > > *The case against astrology*

> > > >

> > > > The case against astrology is that it is untrue. It does not

deliver

> > > > benefits beyond those produced by non-astrological factors, it

has not

> > > > contributed to human knowledge, it has no acceptable mechanism,

its

> > > > principles are invalid, and it has failed hundreds of tests. But

no

> > hint of

> > > > these problems will be found in astrology books, which in effect

are

> > > > exercises in deception. But it doesn't end there.

> > > >

> > > > Astrologers disagree on almost everything, even on basics such

as which

> > > > zodiac to use. They rarely test control data, which is why

scientists

> > see

> > > > astrologers as crazy or even crooks. In fact astrologers are

mostly

> > nice

> > > > people who genuinely wish to help others. But the claim they

repeatedly

> > make

> > > > (astrology is true because based on experience) is simply

mistaken -

> > what

> > > > they see as its strength (experience) is actually its weakness

(no

> > > > controls).

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > *The case for astrology*

> > > >

> > > > The case for astrology is that a warm and sympathetic astrologer

> > provides

> > > > low-cost non-threatening therapy that is otherwise hard to come

by. You

> > get

> > > > emotional comfort, spiritual support, and interesting ideas to

> > stimulate

> > > > self-examination. In a dehumanised society astrology provides

ego

> > support at

> > > > a very low price. Where else can you get this sort of thing

these days?

> > > > In short, there is more to astrology than being true or false.

But note

> > > > the dilemma - to get the benefits you have to believe in

something that

> > is

> > > > untrue. The same dilemma can apply elsewhere as in psychotherapy

and

> > even

> > > > religion, so it is not unique to astrology. Nevertheless it

presents an

> > > > ethical problem that astrologers have generally failed to

recognise let

> > > > alone resolve

> > > >

> > > > Please see " *Journal of Consciousness Studies* 10 (6-7),

175-198, a

> > long

> > > > scholarly article of 24 pages and 85 references. Tests of *time

twins*

> > and

> > > > of astrologers "

> > > >

> > > > --> http://www.imprint.co.uk/pdf/Dean.pdf

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > To start off the debate, I am including the proceedings

> > > >

> > > > from " Current Science " Journal on this topic.

> > > >

> > > > *Indian scientists on Vedic astrology*

> > > > *Thirty comments from Current Science*

> > > >

> > > > *Abstract* -- In 2001 the University Grants Commision (UGC) in

India

> > > > decided to provide funds for courses in astrology and palmistry

at

> > Indian

> > > > universities. The decision provoked outrage and controversy in

the

> > pages of

> > > > the prestigious Indian science journal *Current Science*. Of

thirty

> > > > comments, most of them from scientists in university departments

or

> > research

> > > > institutes, about half dismissed astrology as a pseudo-science,

about

> > half

> > > > of the rest felt decisive tests were needed, and the rest felt

there

> > was

> > > > nothing wrong with funding something that the majority of Indian

people

> > > > believed in. In chronological order, the authors and their

comments are

> > > > briefly as follows, starting with editor P.Balaram:

> > > > *2000, Volume 79, issue 9*

> > > > Balaram -- UGC should not promote astrology and palmistry

courses.

> > > >

> > > > *2001, Volume 80, issues 6-11*

> > > > Ganeshaiah -- But tests not decisive, more are needed to assess

claims.

> > > > Balaram -- Evidence is overwhelmingly against, UGC lacks

credibility.

> > > > Pal -- No respectable university should accept UGC's offer.

> > > > Sitaram and 29 others -- Our apathy means protest may be too

late.

> > > > Murthy -- Opposition to astrology is based on sensible science.

> > > > Chandrashekaran -- No defence is needed when so many people

believe.

> > > > Rao -- Why haven't scientists protested? Astrology is not a

science.

> > > > Khare -- Vedic astrology has not been scientifically validated.

> > > > Virk -- Guru Nanak rejected astrology in 15th century. So should

we.

> > > > Tiwari -- Big science is suppressing new ideas and should be

> > challenged.

> > > > Sashidhar -- Astrology is a pseudo-science, scientists will

ignore it.

> > > >

> > > > *2001, Volume 81, issues 1-3*

> > > > Narasimhan -- The ancients were good observers, give their ideas

a

> > chance.

> > > > Karanth -- Astrology relates to gems, and mineralogy is part of

> > science.

> > > > Seshadri & Kathiravan -- Most Indians believe in astrology, so

honour

> > it.

> > > > Chattopadhyay -- Some scientists secretly believe, so don't

blame

> > public.

> > > > Subbarao -- Faith is often needed to overcome fear and

uncertainty.

> > > > Chopra -- Funding psychological props is OK if other needs not

> > affected.

> > > > Devakumar -- Vedas say nothing about astrology, so *Vedic* is a

> > misnomer.

> > > > Valluri -- Astrology fails to meet the methodology of a science.

> > > > Gautham -- Most consult an astrologer if pressed, so struggle is

> > futile.

> > > > Balasundaram -- Tests of astrology are indecisive, it needs

> > demystifying.

> > > > Tiwari -- Vedic = beyond sensory experience. How can Vedic be

science?

> > > > Gupta -- Astrology may be a science-like knowledge but more

difficult.

> > > > Mandal -- We either accept astrology and reject evolution, or

the

> > reverse.

> > > > Ganeshaiah -- Issue is nonsense vs good information, not arts vs

> > sciences.

> > > > Abhyankar -- Astrologers offer only therapy by talking. Why be

fooled?

> > > > Narlikar (review of *Astrology: Believe it or not?*) -- Not!

> > Recommended!

> > > > Sitaraman -- Science not threatened by Vedic astrology or any

other.

> > > > At which point the debate was closed by the editor. *Three years

> > later:*

> > > >

> > > > *2004, Volume 87, issue 8*

> > > > Chattopadhyay -- Government reaffirms UGC proposal. But we stay

silent.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Opinions on Astrology from Files section of SOA (courtesy Sanat

ji)

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

1. " A single negative result overturns the hypothesis. " Is Medical

Science in your view a science which in my view does not has more

than 80% accuracy in medication.To explain difference between medical sciecne and astrology: let us take the example of blood group determination--

Testing of blood groups for blood donation is an established science.IF you want to believe mr astrokrishna (Krishnamurthy Seetharama) ( http://astrokrishna.blogspot.com/2007/04/astrology-and-diabetes-by-astrokrishna.html )

who claims he can predict blood group, dandruff, from birth chart and DNA-like resemblance between parent birth chart and offspring charts. good luck to you.

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:00 PM, ajay_dhanbad <ajay_dhanbad wrote:

 

 

 

 

Mr Pathmarajah Nagalingam

 

1. " A single negative result overturns the hypothesis. " Is Medical

Science in your view a science which in my view does not has more

than 80% accuracy in medication.

 

2. It seems that in your conservative thought only faculties of

limited knowledge have science. Any science connected with living

things cannot provide 100% accuracy.

 

3. Finally in your style " Everybody knows I just talk that way. " it

seems that you are a half dead persons who thinks that knowledge

vests in dead things as dead as your thoughts are.

 

4. Again I repeat you are no authority to decry Astrology as science

when our Hon'ble Supreme Court has accepted it as a science. If you

have any grudge pls challenge it before the court. I assaure you

that if you will challange astrology at a proper place(before

Supreme Court) you will be charged costs near about 1 lakh of rupees.

If you have guts pls try this adventure than acting oversmart in

this public forum.

 

Yours Ajay Katesaria.

 

HinduCalendar , " " <beastmy wrote:

>

> Sunil,

>

> Thanks you for giving us your background as a scientist. But you

of all

> people should know what constitutes science and what is not!

>

> A hypothesis must be demonstrable repeatedly by way of experiment.

It

> must be falsifiable. Astrology is not. A single negative result

> overturns the hypothesis. Many millions will attest to that.

Besides you

> admit free will or god's will as the unknown factor in all

predictive

> outcomes. If an astrologer does not know, then nobody knows.

Meaning, it

> is not predictable! So why not say it up front?

>

> I don't mind if astrology is considered an art form, although it

is not.

> Crystal ball gazing and seances are. And neither is it

psychotheraphy

> as it replaces insecurities with false hopes and anxiety, which

> naturally requires further therapeutic sessions.

>

> What concerns me is its continued mis-association with Hinduism.

Not

> everything written in sanskrit or associated with Hindu symbols, is

> Hinduism. (for instance nazism) Let astrology be free of Hinduism,

and

> let Hinduism remain free of astrology. It really is mutually

exclusive.

>

> We worship the gods because we know not what the future entails,

so we

> seek his benedictions in complete trust. Astrology believers

worship

> because they like not what they thought they peeked into with their

> charts.

>

> That confused and disorientated people obfuscate and belief both

these

> exclusive 'religions' simultaneously, as a seamless one overlaid

and

> interlocking into each other, is another matter.

>

> All this without even considering the stupendous blunder of our

inept

> medieval astronomers and calendar makers, and which makes any

chart in

> grossly error. What is wrong in saying they made a mistake?

>

> We look upon people like you to lead the mesmerized goats out of

the

> foreboding and sinister 'Valley of Spells', and not tie them up

there!

> Unshackle the slaves, and lead them out of the foul smelling

dungeons of

> superstitions. Join us liberate them from endlessly muttering about

> shani dosa_s, and such. And God knows we need help!

>

> Just sharing some thoughts. No offense. Everybody knows I just

talk that

> way.

>

> Regards.

>

> Pathma

>

[Guest guest]

Ajay ji,I have already written about the court ruling..I am re-quoting it again: " Please read the Supreme Court judgement below, it quotes a nineteenth dictionary.http://judis.nic.in/supremecourt/qrydisp.asp?tfnm=26188

 

Then it quotes a (hold your breath) year 1780 2nd edition of encyclopedia britannica!

 

The same encyclopedia now does not mention word science in its recent definition i.e

" Divination that consists of interpreting the influence of stars and planets on earthly affairs and human destinies. "

Why would the encyclopedia replace the word science (found in earlier edition quoted by supreme court) with divination in the latest edition???http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9356010 please compare this with the definition quoted by the judgement point 10

( Either a science or a pseudo science, astrology the forecasting of earthly and human events by means of observing and interpreting the fixed stars, the sun, the moon and the planets has exerted a sometimes extensive and a sometimes

peripheral influence in many civilizations, both ancient and modern. As a science, astrology has been utilized to predict or affect the destinies in individuals, groups or nations by means of what is believed to be a correct understanding of the

influence of the planets and stars on earthly affairs. As a pseudo science, astrology is considered to be diametrically opposed to the findings and theories of modern Western science.[Encyclopedia Britannica (2nd edition)] " 1780 edition quoted!!!)

RegardsDipsOn Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 6:28 PM, ajay_dhanbad <ajay_dhanbad wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dipika ji,

 

My Message was

 

1. " A single negative result overturns the hypothesis. " Is Medical

Science in your view a science which in my view does not has more

than 80% accuracy in medication.

 

2. It seems that in your conservative thought only faculties of

limited knowledge have science. Any science connected with living

things cannot provide 100% accuracy.

 

Testing of blood grpops is a job of limited knowledge. Tell me why

science cannot transfuse differnt groups to diffrent persons. I have

already stated that scietists and do every thing with dead matter

but when they come to living things their knowledge will always be

limited.

 

Further testing groups is more a part of Physics and Chemistry than

Medical Science. I hope you understand the difference.

 

If you seriously wany to condemn astrolgy you shall try my advice

no. 4

 

4. Again I repeat you are no authority to decry Astrology as science

when our Hon'ble Supreme Court has accepted it as a science. If you

have any grudge pls challenge it before the court. I assaure you

that if you will challange astrology at a proper place(before

Supreme Court) you will be charged costs near about 1 lakh of rupees.

If you have guts pls try this adventure than acting oversmart in

this public forum.

 

If you undermine the authority and think yourself as more smart then

please utter some clear defamatory statements againgst the above

mentioned deciding authority i.e. the Supreme Court so that proper

lessons of obidience and respect may be thought to you by what ever

method becomes suitable in your case.

 

Further, I have accepted your challage against astrology in which

you said to contribute with your personal funds. I have said that I

will make my analysis in Graphs and stats. Though you provide fake

and biased challanges per day why dont you accept my preposition in

front of neutral judges?

 

So stop BOASTING and try to develop proper patience and

understanding. Try to develop the real temperament of a scholar like

Respected Mr. V.V Raman.

 

Your Well Wisher

Ajay Katesaria

 

HinduCalendar , " dipika blr "

<blr.aspirant wrote:

>

> 1. " A single negative result overturns the hypothesis. " Is Medical

> Science in your view a science which in my view does not has more

> than 80% accuracy in medication.

>

> To explain difference between medical sciecne and astrology: let

us take the

> example of blood group determination--

> Testing of blood groups for blood donation is an established

science.

> IF you want to believe mr astrokrishna (Krishnamurthy Seetharama) (

> http://astrokrishna.blogspot.com/2007/04/astrology-and-diabetes-by-

astrokrishna.html)

> who claims he can predict blood group, dandruff, from birth

chart and

> DNA-like resemblance between parent birth chart and offspring

charts. good

> luck to you.

>

>

>

> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:00 PM, ajay_dhanbad <ajay_dhanbad

> wrote:

>

> > Mr Pathmarajah Nagalingam

> >

> > 1. " A single negative result overturns the hypothesis. " Is

Medical

> > Science in your view a science which in my view does not has more

> > than 80% accuracy in medication.

> >

> > 2. It seems that in your conservative thought only faculties of

> > limited knowledge have science. Any science connected with living

> > things cannot provide 100% accuracy.

> >

> > 3. Finally in your style " Everybody knows I just talk that way. "

it

> > seems that you are a half dead persons who thinks that knowledge

> > vests in dead things as dead as your thoughts are.

> >

> > 4. Again I repeat you are no authority to decry Astrology as

science

> > when our Hon'ble Supreme Court has accepted it as a science. If

you

> > have any grudge pls challenge it before the court. I assaure you

> > that if you will challange astrology at a proper place(before

> > Supreme Court) you will be charged costs near about 1 lakh of

rupees.

> > If you have guts pls try this adventure than acting oversmart in

> > this public forum.

> >

> > Yours Ajay Katesaria.

> >

> >

> > HinduCalendar <HinduCalendar%

40>, " "

> > <beastmy@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Sunil,

> > >

> > > Thanks you for giving us your background as a scientist. But

you

> > of all

> > > people should know what constitutes science and what is not!

> > >

> > > A hypothesis must be demonstrable repeatedly by way of

experiment.

> > It

> > > must be falsifiable. Astrology is not. A single negative result

> > > overturns the hypothesis. Many millions will attest to that.

> > Besides you

> > > admit free will or god's will as the unknown factor in all

> > predictive

> > > outcomes. If an astrologer does not know, then nobody knows.

> > Meaning, it

> > > is not predictable! So why not say it up front?

> > >

> > > I don't mind if astrology is considered an art form, although

it

> > is not.

> > > Crystal ball gazing and seances are. And neither is it

> > psychotheraphy

> > > as it replaces insecurities with false hopes and anxiety, which

> > > naturally requires further therapeutic sessions.

> > >

> > > What concerns me is its continued mis-association with

Hinduism.

> > Not

> > > everything written in sanskrit or associated with Hindu

symbols, is

> > > Hinduism. (for instance nazism) Let astrology be free of

Hinduism,

> > and

> > > let Hinduism remain free of astrology. It really is mutually

> > exclusive.

> > >

> > > We worship the gods because we know not what the future

entails,

> > so we

> > > seek his benedictions in complete trust. Astrology believers

> > worship

> > > because they like not what they thought they peeked into with

their

> > > charts.

> > >

> > > That confused and disorientated people obfuscate and belief

both

> > these

> > > exclusive 'religions' simultaneously, as a seamless one

overlaid

> > and

> > > interlocking into each other, is another matter.

> > >

> > > All this without even considering the stupendous blunder of our

> > inept

> > > medieval astronomers and calendar makers, and which makes any

> > chart in

> > > grossly error. What is wrong in saying they made a mistake?

> > >

> > > We look upon people like you to lead the mesmerized goats out

of

> > the

> > > foreboding and sinister 'Valley of Spells', and not tie them up

> > there!

> > > Unshackle the slaves, and lead them out of the foul smelling

> > dungeons of

> > > superstitions. Join us liberate them from endlessly muttering

about

> > > shani dosa_s, and such. And God knows we need help!

> > >

> > > Just sharing some thoughts. No offense. Everybody knows I just

> > talk that

> > > way.

> > >

> > > Regards.

> > >

> > > Pathma

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>