Guest guest Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 Dear Bala When you say kundali, u are only looking at a very basic structure of planetary positions at a given particluar time. But kundali is futher analysed as Navamsa, etc upto may subdivisions wherein you can see the difference from second to second. Why does yr kundali not change when you change the time upto one day? You must know that the earth takes 365 days to go around the sun. So if you divide this motion into 12 Rasis or 12 parts of the Cosmos, in each Rasi or part the sun will stay for aprox one month. Moon takes 30 days to go around the earth, so it stays for 2 and 1/4 days in each rasi, Satrun takes 30 years to go around the sun and it stays 2 1/2 years in each rasi, So most planets will stay for longer than one day in each rasi. But you must further see at what degree of the Rasi they are at different times. The whole Cosmos is taken as 360 degrees and 30 degrees for each rasi. the planets keep moving all the time. Therefore there will be difference in the kundali from second to second. You can down load any ephimerics from the net and see the continouous movement of planets Pranams Ravichandranbalas_9999 <balas_9999 wrote: Suresh - Thanks for your comments on Nadi Jyotisham.I would like to share another interesting incident with the members.Till about a couple of hours back I was under the impression that a slight change in the birth timings can result in a totally different Kundali. But using one of the online sites, I first modified my birth timings +-15 to 10 minutes and did not find any change in Lagna, Rashi, Nakshtra, Planets in Houses, etc. Then I added one day (+1 day) to my birth date. Yet the horoscope casting was exactly the same as the original.I am not an astrologer but find it difficult to accept that a full one day has not made any changes to the horoscope. Does it mean that all the children taking birth during the period of 24 hours or more in the same birth place will have the same destiny / fate / future or whatever we may call it?Kindly excuse me if I am getting wrong results due to some error from my side.Bala , "sureshbalaraman" <sureshbalaraman wrote:>> Bala,> > You are right about Nadi jyotisham.Difficult for me to figure it out.But> of late,i am begginning to feel,somehow they are too not above> boards.Ultimately its a means of making a living for these> astrologers,unlike what it was originally meant for.That is why> Brahmanas were so straight forward,money,lucre,status,power etc all> these higly material benfits did not have a sway for them because the> Kings ensured that,the brahmana community would never ever have to> resort to think of earning a living.Therefore all the time> learning,observing,chanting,yagyas etc were the key foundation for the> upliftment of humanity at that time(5000 years back).> > Suresh Balaraman.> > , "balas_9999" <balas_9999@>> wrote:> >> >> > I tend to agree with what has been written on the subject of> > astrology in this forum. The chances of a prediction coming true is> > 50 - 50%. If the predictions are cent percent accurate then it means> > that there is no free will in this world and everything is pre-> > destined.> >> > Although, it may be a little pre-mature to talk about Nadi Sashtra,> > I would request members to provide their thoughts and experiences on> > the same so that a comparison can be drawn between the two.> >> > Bala> >> >> >> >> >> > , "sureshbalaraman"> > sureshbalaraman@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > In astronomical text Shatapatha Brahmana> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatapatha_Brahmana> , :> > >> > > "The sun is stationed for all time, in the middle of the day.> > [...] Of> > > he sun, which is always in one and the same place, there is neither> > > setting nor rising."> > >> > >> > >> > > The Aitareya Brahmana> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aitareya_Brahmana>> > > (2.7) (c. 9th–8th century BC) also states:> > >> > > "The Sun never sets nor rises. When people think the sun is> > setting, it> > > is not so; they are mistaken. It only changes about after reaching> > the> > > end of the day and makes night below and day to what is on the> > other> > > side.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Suresh Balaraman.> > >> > >> > > , "sanat2221"> > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Science of astrology – 1> > > > Res. Suresh Ji,> > > > You may be right in first few lines that "The purpose of> > Jyotisha as> > > > Vedanga was to prepare the student of Veda and Upanishad in> > > > understanding the place of man in the Universe." and last few> > lines> > > > that "The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of> > > > vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a> > soothsayer> > > > business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction is> > 50 -> > > > 50> > > > statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth sense> > thru> > > > yoga> > > > or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict> > > > consistently> > > > the future."> > > >> > > > Now, I am talking about when Ved were being passed on through> > shrut> > > > gyan at that time 5 planets were not given that much importance> > as> > > > it was given to Sun and Moon, const. etc. and 5 elements were> > related> > > > to the planets as an initial stage for formulating astrological> > > > principles. Thus comedy of errors started (you are right), which> > have> > > > engulphed whole human civilization and lot of unilateral> > discussions> > > > are going on, without digging. Thus any prediction turns out to> > be> > > > true may be due to strong 6th sense (you are right). But from> > this> > > > how we can draw an inference that astrology (predictive ) is> > correct.> > > >> > > > Till now no dispute.> > > > Now I am not agree with your opinion that "our vedas mention> > that the> > > > sun never rises or sets" nor there was any mention that galaxy is> > > > lords chakram etc. Yes, we may take it on philosophical ground> > with> > > > our faith towards a particular religion. But I can give you many> > > > references where it was mentioned in the Ved that Sun rises and> > set.> > > > Even in Rigved mandal 1 sukt 164 slok 7 it was asked that who> > ever> > > > know about the birth of Sun may come forward to tell the mystery.> > > > Rigved mandal 1 sukt 50 slok 2 says that after sunrise all> > > > constellations hide themselves like thieves. Rigved mandal 1 sukt> > > > 50 slok 5 says that sun rises daily so that all living being> > may see> > > > him. Rigved mandal 1 sukt 191 slok 8 says that sun rises from> > the> > > > east and so on. Many more references can be quoted. Though we> > have> > > > diverted from our main point about the element of mercury and its> > > > enmity with the lordship of sign.> > > >> > > > But it seems you have given your opinion that it is comedy of> > errors.> > > > Yours truly,> > > > Sanat> > > > 5-4-2008> > > >> > > > Re: Science of astrology -1> > > > Posted by: "sureshbalaraman" sureshbalaraman@> > > > sureshbalaraman> > > > Thu Apr 3, 2008 5:50 pm (PDT)> > > >> > > > Namastay Sanatji :> > > >> > > > Since you have brought messages from Hindu Calendar forum,i will> > try> > > > to> > > > answere in proper context.> > > >> > > > (1)> > > >> > > > The purpose of Jyotisha as Vedanga was to prepare the student of> > Veda> > > > and Upanishad in understanding the place of man in the> > Universe.That> > > > it> > > > has become some sort of tool to predict mundane life trials & > > > > tribulations is the wayward way life is going on.After studying> > > > economics in some of the best schools in the world,majority of> > nations> > > > economic advisors worldover are grossly stupid in managing their> > > > economies,and the economic woes of common man,is incresing> > > > exponentially.But yet we are concerned about jyotish vidya,which> > is> > > > being used out of context.(2)> > > >> > > > Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation> > > >> > > > TEXT 71> > > >> > > > sraddhavan anasuyas ca> > > > srnuyad api yo narah> > > > so 'pi muktah subhal lokan> > > > prapnuyat punya-karmanam> > > >> > > > TRANSLATION> > > >> > > > And one who listens with faith and without envy becomes free from> > > > sinful> > > > reactions and attains to the planets where the pious dwell.> > > >> > > > http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html> > <http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html>> > > > (3)Astro-Logic;Sun-Aditya-Ravi Varam;Moon-Chandra-Soma> > > > Varam;Mars-Mangala-Mangala Varam;Mercury-Budhan-Budhan> > > > Varam;Jupiter-Guru-Guru Varam;Venus-Sukra-Sukra> > > > Varam;Saturn-Shanieswaran-Shanieswara Varam.Of the> > Navagrahas,seven of> > > > the above planets are included in our Panchangam.Rahu & Ketu> > have been> > > > allotted special timings so as to avoid doing important work.(3)> > > >> > > > Om Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu:> > > > May Peace & Happiness Prevail> > > >> > > > Amma has chosen some peace mantras for daily chanting by her> > devotees> > > > and disciples. One of those invocations is Om lokah samastah> > sukhino> > > > bhavantu. Although this mantra does not appear in any of the> > existent> > > > Veda sakhas [Vedic branches], it is an ex-pression of the> > universal> > > > spirit that we find therein1. Let's take a look at what context> > it> > > > appears in and what meaning it carries. The sloka as a whole> > reads as> > > > follows:> > > >> > > > svasti prajabhyam paripalayantham nyayeana margena mahim maheesah> > > > gobrahmanebhya shubamsthu nityam lokah samastha sukhino bhavanthu> > > >> > > > May there be well being to the people;> > > > May the kings(Presidents,Prime Ministers etc) rule the earth> > along the> > > > right path;> > > > May the cattle and the Brahmins have well being forever;> > > > May all the beings in all the worlds(seven in number) become> > happy;> > > > Peace, peace and peace be everywhere!> > > >> > > > http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php> > > > <http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php>> > > >> > > > (4)> > > >> > > > Sathapatha Brahmana 14.16:> > > > Katame Vasava iti. Agnischa prithivi cha> > > > vayusch-antarikshamchaadityascha dyouscha chandramascha> > nakshatrani> > > > chaite Vasava aeteshu hidam sarve vasu hitam aete hidam sarve> > > > vasayante> > > > taddyudidam sarve vasayante tasmad Vasava iti.> > > >> > > > The Sathapatha Brahmana gives the list of eight Vasu as (1) Agni> > (2)> > > > Prithvi (3) Vayu (4) Antariksha (5) Aditya (6) Dyou (7)> > Chandrama and> > > > (8) Nakshetra. Prima facie this may seem a bit contradictory as> > Aditya> > > > has also been mentioned separately but here it refers to the Sun,> > > > Chandra refers to the Moon, Nakshetra are the lunar mansions or> > the> > > > constellations and the remaining five represent the states of> > material> > > > existence. These eight form the primary source of enlightenment> > about> > > > the self. They represent the basic variables that define every> > > > creation> > > > and its original source of illumination in the ten methods> > defined> > > > earlier as the purpose of the deva. The Vishnu Purana makes this> > more> > > > lucid in the definition of the Vasu's as> > > >> > > > 1. Apa – Jala Tatwa or liquid> > > > 2. Dhara – Prithvi Tatwa or solid> > > > 3. Anila – Vayu Tatwa or Gas> > > > 4. Anala – Agni Tatwa or Energy> > > > 5. Dhruva – the pole star representing> > > > a. Akash Tatwa – the sky or Vacuum and> > > > b. fixity of the zodiac i.e. the relevance of Ayanamsa> > > > 6. Soma – The Moon> > > > 7. Pratyusha – the recurring dawn representing> > > > a. The Sun – as causing the night and day i.e. the source> > > > of light behind the dawn,> > > > b. Lagna – The ascendant or the point in the eastern> > > > horizon as representing the self and is equated to the dawn.> > > > 8. Prabhasa – splendorous lights of the stars that are grouped> > > > into 27/28 Nakshetra (Constellations).> > > >> > > > This list is the first principle of Jyotish where the bodies that> > > > create> > > > all beings as well as guide them through various activities are> > > > defined.> > > > These include (a) the Sun, (b) the Moon, © the constellations> > called> > > > Nakshetra and (d) the Pancha Tatwa or (the guidance/direction> > from)> > > > the> > > > five states of existence of all matter and energy. Thus, the> > > > luminaries> > > > (Sun & Moon), the five planets Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus & > > Saturn> > > > [ruling the five states of energy (Agni), solid (Prithvi), ether> > > > (Akash), liquid (Jala) and gas (Vayu) respectively] and the 27> > (or 28)> > > > lunar mansion called Nakshetra form the first principle. Birth> > implies> > > > creation and this is the Satvic principle of sustenance of the> > born or> > > > created being.> > > >> > > > http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt-sanjay-> > rath.html> > > > <http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt-sanjay-> > > > rath.html>> > > >> > > > As a philosopher,our vedas mention that"the sun never rises or> > sets"> > > > that is the actual truth.We have taken arbitary points for> > > > mathematical> > > > purposes,constructed the measurement of time known as per the> > > > perception> > > > of humanity,as per evolution over milleniums.In fact the milky> > way,is> > > > only a " chakram" of the lord which he happens to hold in one of> > his> > > > fingers,when one can visualise in cosmic> > contemplation,the "swayam> > > > rupam" when you pray to see the form.> > > >> > > > The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of> > > > vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a> > soothsayer> > > > business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction is> > 50 -> > > > 50> > > > statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth sense> > thru> > > > yoga> > > > or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict> > > > consistently> > > > the future.> > > >> > > > Suresh Balaraman.> > > >> > >> >> You rock. 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Guest guest Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 Res. Suresh Ji, In your mail you have mentioned a slok of Gita, though it has nothing to do with astrology yet I am not agree with the following interpretation The moon nourishes the plant kingdom. The moon influences the tides of the ocean (which is the cosmic mental substance) and thereby provides a supply of water that is transformable to pure, non-salty taste by evaporation to make rain clouds. This is why the association of flowers can counteract the influence of the moon in the eighth house. For following translation " I enter each planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all herbs " in support of tide. If we go with your interpretation then what is the need to Moon to create tide when he has only to hold the water provided by the Sun. secondly in the translation I refer to Krishna or God …. But not to the Moon. Thus the writer (as you have picked up this portion) is poking his own translation instead of bare translation. It is like this that if we find some slok that " I have come on vehicle. " Then these translator will translate it that I came on some Rath (chariot), palky (carried by some persons) horse etc. but modern translator will say that I have come on Maruti or Mercedes , which is definitely wrong. So before standing with any translation it would be justified to match it with the then society, knowledge and other ancillary information instead of pocking some modern concept. Yours truly, sanat Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman sureshbalaraman Fri Apr 4, 2008 3:57 pm (PDT) (1) In the Bhagavad-gita (15.3) it is stated: gam avishyaca bhutani dharayamy aham ojasa pushnami caushadhih sarva somo bhutva rasatmakah " I enter each planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all herbs " .......... ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 You have intelligently replied to your own query,sanatji.>> " I enter each planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all herbs " << By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the moon rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon to earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya.What krishna says or at least visualised and interpreted to dritashtra,is said : everything is brahman.that brahman name is given as krishna.as he was the present avatar at that time.just like vahana can mean a rath then and now a bmw.therefore brahman existed then ,now,and future.all this futile contemplation is of no use to anybody.chant the gods name and obtain moksha,is what shankara says,let us do that.hara shankara jaya jaya shankara sb , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > > Res. Suresh Ji, > In your mail you have mentioned a slok of Gita, though it has > nothing to do with astrology yet I am not agree with the following > interpretation > > The moon nourishes the plant kingdom. The moon influences the tides of > the ocean (which is the cosmic mental substance) and thereby provides > a > supply of water that is transformable to pure, non-salty taste by > evaporation to make rain clouds. This is why the association of > flowers > can counteract the influence of the moon in the eighth house. > For following translation > > " I enter each planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all herbs " > > in support of tide. If we go with your interpretation then what is > the need to Moon to create tide when he has only to hold the water > provided by the Sun. secondly in the translation I refer to Krishna > or God …. But not to the Moon. Thus the writer (as you have picked up > this portion) is poking his own translation instead of bare > translation. It is like this that if we find some slok that " I have > come on vehicle. " Then these translator will translate it that I came > on some Rath (chariot), palky (carried by some persons) horse etc. > but modern translator will say that I have come on Maruti or > Mercedes , which is definitely wrong. So before standing with any > translation it would be justified to match it with the then society, > knowledge and other ancillary information instead of pocking some > modern concept. > > Yours truly, > sanat > > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman > sureshbalaraman > Fri Apr 4, 2008 3:57 pm (PDT) > > (1) In the Bhagavad-gita (15.3) it is stated: > > gam avishyaca bhutani > dharayamy aham ojasa > pushnami caushadhih sarva > somo bhutva rasatmakah > > " I enter each planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all herbs " > > ......... ..... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Res. SB Ji, No I have not replied like ..>> " I enter each planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all herbs " << It is your msg of 4-4-08, on which I have replied. (you may check as I always attach a portion of previous link). I also disagree with your following inference. " By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the moon rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon to earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya. " Because you yourself are drawing any inference which suit you in modern concept without looking in to the fact as to what was said in what context. In which Ved, Puran or Greek or Varahmihir etc. told and accepted that Moon get the light from the Sun and without Sun; Moon is zero. It is only your translation in view of modern knowledge. But it was not said any where. Yes " vahana can mean a rath then and now a bmw " but you cant say that Krishna was moving on BMW. What I mean to say that if you do the translation of " Vahan " like BMW and try to infuse in the mind of general public that Krishna was traveling on BMW then what will happen. The same thing is happening with astrology. As no body try to look as to if you continue to join Krishna with BMW then you have to answer so many questions related to BMW, which will never available in Ved puran. Thus either you blame that I am not believing Ved or knowledge of sages etc or continue to support your stand with distorted translation, which is being done by almost all astrologers. Thus if Brahmand was eternal then how we can conclude that tide is creation of Moon (do not apply present knowledge) from this view. Thus if in primitive time our sages have formulated some principles then you have to find and answer in the then perspective and then you have to check as to that contention was correct in view of modern knowledge or not. But you can not support primitive concept with modern interpretation or with modern knowledge. Thus so far you are not able to answer your stand that high & low tides based on position of Moon from earth.Human body constitutes of fluids,so therefore there are subtle effects on the human body " and connection of inimical element of planet and sign. " Thanks Sanat 8-4-2008 Re: Science of astrology -1 Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman sureshbalaraman Sun Apr 6, 2008 2:56 pm (PDT) You have intelligently replied to your own query,sanatji.>> " I enter each planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all herbs " << By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the moon rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon to earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya.What krishna says or at least visualised and interpreted to dritashtra,is said : everything is brahman.that brahman name is given as krishna.as he was the present avatar at that time.just like vahana can mean a rath then and now a bmw.therefore brahman existed then ,now,and future.all this futile contemplation is of no use to anybody.chant the gods name and obtain moksha,is what shankara says,let us do that.hara shankara jaya jaya shankara sb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Sanatji,i am confused with what exactly you are trying to say.I am living in 2008 gregorian calendar.Its natural for me to link to my present situation instead of contemplating why and how the sages and seers perceived knowledge and to give the exact methodology.Its truly beyond me.I can only make inferences,deductions and therefore conclude as circumstantial evidential truth.Who is to say with absolute authority,what happened.The Bhagavath gita as well many jain scriptures collated messages of so many tirthankars,can only be listened to, by us.If we have any doubts,we need to proceed to authoritative gurus,who are well versed in spirituality. I am a commoner with a philosophical bent of mind.It suits my thinking and i am happy. >>But it was not said any where.<< So many of our books were stolen,burnt,plundered looted by barbaric mughals,mongols,brits,and as well as indian kings amongst themselves in the past.The brits stole ship loads of palm leaves scriptures from india,maybe you ought to go to UK and start finding all those.Because whats left in India,is just a meagre amount of old palm leaves knowledge.Many of them in sanksrit.One pundit will say one interpretation another will say another interpretation and it goes on.I like Srila Prabhupadas translation and i am sticking to it.I am not asking anyone else to follow.Each can choose their own ishta translations. Astrology was used for panchangam purposes only with seasonal indicators,for performance of rituals in our dharma.That enthusiastic scholars chose to predict mundane things to people thereby gain recongnition,fame,money is all together another issue. Lord krishna explains in gita,that he is the boss of everything.. i mean everything...even what i have written is his potency.. i am nobody.I am only a reflection of the supreme...shining in reflected glory of the Lord.In the universe,i constitute just a speck..a nano sub particle..which is existing its lifecycle and one day in a kshana just go back to lord..astrology in proper perspective gives us a directional light..as to how the laws were postulated...it will take brahmaji to incarnate again and explain... :) Suresh Balaraman. , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > > Res. SB Ji, > No I have not replied like > .>> " I enter each planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all herbs " << > It is your msg of 4-4-08, on which I have replied. (you may check as > I always attach a portion of previous link). > > I also disagree with your following inference. > " By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the moon > rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon to > earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya. " > Because you yourself are drawing any inference which suit you in > modern concept without looking in to the fact as to what was said in > what context. In which Ved, Puran or Greek or Varahmihir etc. told > and accepted that Moon get the light from the Sun and without Sun; > Moon is zero. It is only your translation in view of modern > knowledge. But it was not said any where. > > Yes " vahana can mean a rath then and now a bmw " but you cant say that > Krishna was moving on BMW. What I mean to say that if you do the > translation of " Vahan " like BMW and try to infuse in the mind of > general public that Krishna was traveling on BMW then what will > happen. The same thing is happening with astrology. As no body try to > look as to if you continue to join Krishna with BMW then you have to > answer so many questions related to BMW, which will never available > in Ved puran. Thus either you blame that I am not believing Ved or > knowledge of sages etc or continue to support your stand with > distorted translation, which is being done by almost all astrologers. > > Thus if Brahmand was eternal then how we can conclude that tide is > creation of Moon (do not apply present knowledge) from this view. > Thus if in primitive time our sages have formulated some principles > then you have to find and answer in the then perspective and then you > have to check as to that contention was correct in view of modern > knowledge or not. But you can not support primitive concept with > modern interpretation or with modern knowledge. > > Thus so far you are not able to answer your stand that high & low > tides based on position of Moon from earth.Human body constitutes of > fluids,so therefore there are subtle effects on the human body " and > connection of inimical element of planet and sign. " > > Thanks > Sanat > 8-4-2008 > > Re: Science of astrology -1 > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman > sureshbalaraman > Sun Apr 6, 2008 2:56 pm (PDT) > > You have intelligently replied to your own query,sanatji.>> " I enter > each > planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all herbs " > << > > By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the moon > rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon to > earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya.What krishna says or at > least visualised and interpreted to dritashtra,is said : everything is > brahman.that brahman name is given as krishna.as he was the present > avatar at that time.just like vahana can mean a rath then and now a > bmw.therefore brahman existed then ,now,and future.all this futile > contemplation is of no use to anybody.chant the gods name and obtain > moksha,is what shankara says,let us do that.hara shankara jaya jaya > shankara > > sb > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 sanatji,i only quoted from BG to give you an example as to how moon nourishes the plant lives,herbs,mind of humans,tides.You are more than welcome not to agree with anybody elses translations,thats your prerogative and right.Don't you think,i should also be extended the same courtesy.I love srila prabhupadas translations-thats it. Western world is able to do research and make a logical presentation of findings,which is reviewed and then only certified.Our Maha Rishis were stalwarts in their own rights.As a matter of fact,some of the knowledge has been transferred from the east and may i daresay,the maharishis themselves are reincarnating and born as scientiscts here in the west,so that eternal knowledge will continue forever as long as the sun shines and moon shines on reflected light.Jab tak suraj chaand rahay ga,sarva vidya jagat may rahay ga.OK goodnight i am feeling sleepy. SB. , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > > Res. SB Ji, > No I have not replied like > .>> " I enter each planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all herbs " << > It is your msg of 4-4-08, on which I have replied. (you may check as > I always attach a portion of previous link). > > I also disagree with your following inference. > " By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the moon > rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon to > earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya. " > Because you yourself are drawing any inference which suit you in > modern concept without looking in to the fact as to what was said in > what context. In which Ved, Puran or Greek or Varahmihir etc. told > and accepted that Moon get the light from the Sun and without Sun; > Moon is zero. It is only your translation in view of modern > knowledge. But it was not said any where. > > Yes " vahana can mean a rath then and now a bmw " but you cant say that > Krishna was moving on BMW. What I mean to say that if you do the > translation of " Vahan " like BMW and try to infuse in the mind of > general public that Krishna was traveling on BMW then what will > happen. The same thing is happening with astrology. As no body try to > look as to if you continue to join Krishna with BMW then you have to > answer so many questions related to BMW, which will never available > in Ved puran. Thus either you blame that I am not believing Ved or > knowledge of sages etc or continue to support your stand with > distorted translation, which is being done by almost all astrologers. > > Thus if Brahmand was eternal then how we can conclude that tide is > creation of Moon (do not apply present knowledge) from this view. > Thus if in primitive time our sages have formulated some principles > then you have to find and answer in the then perspective and then you > have to check as to that contention was correct in view of modern > knowledge or not. But you can not support primitive concept with > modern interpretation or with modern knowledge. > > Thus so far you are not able to answer your stand that high & low > tides based on position of Moon from earth.Human body constitutes of > fluids,so therefore there are subtle effects on the human body " and > connection of inimical element of planet and sign. " > > Thanks > Sanat > 8-4-2008 > > Re: Science of astrology -1 > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman > sureshbalaraman > Sun Apr 6, 2008 2:56 pm (PDT) > > You have intelligently replied to your own query,sanatji.>> " I enter > each > planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all herbs " > << > > By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the moon > rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon to > earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya.What krishna says or at > least visualised and interpreted to dritashtra,is said : everything is > brahman.that brahman name is given as krishna.as he was the present > avatar at that time.just like vahana can mean a rath then and now a > bmw.therefore brahman existed then ,now,and future.all this futile > contemplation is of no use to anybody.chant the gods name and obtain > moksha,is what shankara says,let us do that.hara shankara jaya jaya > shankara > > sb > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Re: Science of astrology -1 Res. SB Ji, It would be better in the interest of other members even for me if you just cut and paste the relevant portion which you want to refer from any site or forum etc. and readily available with you. Beside this you may intimate the site (it is good) so that members may visit the site (if desire), So that interaction may not hamper and every thing may be available in the msg. I am going to summarize the pointwise interaction for the benefit of existing and new members. It will also be useful for this purpose too. Now the site of Sanatam Dharm which you have referred says (summery) ----------------- The sun god, in disguise, taught the science to Maya, the carpenter of the Asuras. The work incorporating his teachings is called the Suryasiddhanta. With our eyes we learn about distant objects. Just as our eyes help us to know objects that are distant in space (that is just as we see distant object with our eyes), Jyotisa sastra help us to find out the position of the heavenly bodies. Similarly, if you want to know the position of planets 50 years ago or 50 years hence, you have to have recourse to Jyotisa. This is the reason why Jyotisa is called the eye of the Vedapurusa. Vedic rituals are performed according to the position of the various planets [and the sun and the moon]. There are rules to determine this. This Anga of the Vedas is indeed called " nayana " which word means " to lead " . A blind man needs to be led by another. So it is the eye that leads. Astronomy / Astrology is the eye that enables us to fix the hours for Vedic rituals. ----------- So where it is mentioned that astrology (Astrology of primitive age is presently known as astronomy) may be used for prediction of X,Y or Z.. I have already mentioned that it was used for auspicious time for yagya etc. (refer point 3 of msg of 7-4-08). Do you believe that Sun God (ie Sun as a star) may like to teach the Suryasidhant to Maya (Yawan or Greek) that too when our Ved is full of praise to Sun. Is in not the partiality of the Sun that he like to teach his siddhant to Asura instead of sages of land of deity ie. India. However you are indirectly admitting that our sages do not have sufficient knowledge and they have to borrow the knowledge from Greeks. And astrology means observation of Planets ie astronomy. It has nothing to do as to whether some one is Arya samaji or not. Main point was that Ved (which you are pleading) is not supporting predictive astrology, which is also followed by Arya samaj. Nothing else. It means astrologers are befooling public in the name of Ved. Am I clear. Reg. your views that " celestial bodies were used by maha-purushas and their main purpose to condition the mind to attain moksha from births. " I will like to say it is pure religious matter and with this too you can not draw a inference that predictive astrology is correct. I have referred NASA because like Greeks now NASA is more expert in tracking the movement of planets whereas socalled Indian Jyotishacharya are busy in their business of cheating in the coverup of Vedang. Because innocent Indian public has only faith and not willing to know the truth. Yes, Ved as a written document is oldest and Shatapatha Brahmana & Aitareya Brahmana were written after Ved. Is there any doubt. Again I am not agree with your statement " the seven horses mentioned are the seven colors of light which get refracted(VIBGYOR )……….it,is a tribute to the ancient teachers,who have done a terrific job. " Because horse has noting to do with colours, and there is no such mention in the Ved except some hearsay rumors for colours and defective translations. Refer Rigved Mandal 4 sukt 44 slok 1, which says that chariot of the Sun is made up of wood. Sukt 45 slok 1 says that it is carrying three types of food and one container of Somras. Slok 6 says that Sun controls the horses of chariot. Rigved Mandal 3 sukt 30 slok 12 says that horses are freed only after completing the round. Rigved Mandal 4 sukt 13 slok 4 says that Sun travel with the help of powerful horses ………and so on I can give you many more reference. But I think it is enough if you want to rethink about your stand. So you are paying tribute to ancient teachers for adopting the suryasiddhanta of asuras and for infusing that in Indian society. We are not irritating each other so don't worry carry on. We are just exchanging our views and you are also free as to whether you are willing to modify your stand or not. Other silent members may please exchange their views even though they may be different or amateur. Thanks Sanat , " sureshbalaraman " <sureshbalaraman wrote: > > >>Because we are discussing the science of astrology hence it has > nothing to do with any religious belief.<< > > As per Sanathana Dharma,its Vedanga " eye of the vedas " .plz try to read > if you want to.. http://kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part10/chap1.htm the > great paramacharya or Mahaswami as he is being referred these days,is > saint among saints,guru amongst gurus..this is my opinion.. as per > shankara who is eswara himself,bhaja govindam bhaja govindham mooda > mathe,samprapthe..... i guess you get the drift > > >>1 Arya samaj who is actually caring for Ved is totally against the > predictive astrology.<< > > i am not a arya samaji,but i respect raja ram mohan roy,fo r one single > act of abolishing " Sati " from sanathana dharma. > > >>astrologers is just a befooling tactics<< > > i think in my earlier posts i have mentioned why celestial bodies were > used by maha-purushas and their main purpose to condition the mind to > attain moksha from births. > > >>vedang (astronomy)from NASA << > > NASA people are far from all these.Why are you dragging them to create > some sort of credibility in discussion.Americans respect Indians and > vice versa. > > >>Shatapatha Brahmana & Aitareya Brahmana, which were written afte > Ved.<< > > so you now have a verifiable date for vedas and the authorship of > vedas..hmm..sounds like BS to me. > > >>Thus it was a development in skill. But translation is wrong as in > that case what 7 horses were doing.<< > > the seven horses mentioned are the seven colors of light which get > refracted(VIBGYOR).The great teachers of india,told stories to impart > knowledge,as was prevalent more than 5000 years back.That today we are > discussing about it,is a tribute to the ancient teachers,who have done a > terrific job.Om shri Gurubyo namaha!! > > >>Thus our sages were not wrong (even their wrong concept), actually we > are > wrong who are trying our best to turn the table and reversing the > developmental sequence by any how proving the concept of sages as > right (by wrong translation of slok etc.), perhaps somewhere > religious compulsion may be there. But academically we must be right.<< > > I am not a sanskrit scholar.Every day/night ( even though,there is no > sun rise or sunset-philosophically) i learn,for me its a continuous > process till i leave this body,spend some time with my folks in > sorgam,and come to another body as per my karma.This is my > self-realisation. :) > > Last but not least,i am sorry-if i have irritated you in any way.Now i > know that,i have done thru cyber-space.Hopefully you are telling the > truth.If not may god give you good sense. > > > > Bye. > > Suresh Balaraman. > > , " sanat2221 " > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Res. SB Ji, > > I am not able to understand as to where you want to lead the > > interaction by meaning of my name or belief in Ved by Jains. It makes > > no difference as to whether I believe in Ved or not. Because we are > > discussing the science of astrology hence it has nothing to do with > > any religious belief. So far your question is concerned I believe Ved > > like I believe Jainism or so. But if you are trying to say that if > > someone believe in Ved then he must believe astrology. Then I am > > sorry to say that you are totally wrong. Because > > 1 Arya samaj who is actually caring for Ved is totally against the > > predictive astrology. > > 2 Ved has nothing to do with predictive astrology. > > 3 Vedang ie astrology is a part (out of 6) of Ved, as is being > > propagated by astrologers is just a befooling tactics. Astrology as > > vedang has nothing to do with prediction and Vedang (astrology) in > > vedic era is limited to working out the auspicious time for yagya > > etc. There was only one word astrology which has now been bifurcated > > like astrology (means prediction) and astronomy. > > 4 With reference to present terminology, astronomy was vedang (out of > > 6) and not astrology. > > 5 Astrologers are borrowing the information of vedang (astronomy) > > from NASA (after forgetting the procedure adopted by our sages, which > > was primitive and not accurate), and astrology which has nothing to > > do with Ved is propagated on the name of our great sages (astronomers > > not astrologers). > > 6 Thus even if you believe in Ved then you must oppose predictive > > astrology as a religious matter (I am not diverting towards any > > religioun). > > > > But scientifically either we may have reasons to verify that planets > > affects day-to-day event of every individual which can be decoded > > with the help of astrological principles or we may find the basic of > > formulation of astrological principles and their scientific viability > > with applied forecast. In view of this I can say that I believe in > > Ved, as I believe in astronomy (which was the concept of Ved), > > whereas you are not believing on Ved because you believe in astrology > > (predictive). Hi Hi. Enjoy Enjoy. Don't irritate. > > > > In your another msg you have quoted astronomical text of Shatapatha > > Brahmana & Aitareya Brahmana, which were written afte Ved. Thus there > > concept was in contradiction to Ved due to development of skill > > (because we know some thing much better after improving our > > knowledge. This process is still going on though under the heading of > > science). According to SB Sun is not setting becaue how a god riding > > on a chariot of 7 horses may set (die, sleep or so), (because in Ved > > it set and rise). Thus it was a development in skill. But translation > > is wrong as in that case what 7 horses were doing. > > As per AB which indicate further development in knowledge, says (as > > per your translation) that " people think the sun is setting, it is > > not so; they are mistaken " means in those days our religious concept > > or sages (not people, because people were never allowed to read Ved > > etc. ) were of the opinion that sun sets, which was contradicted by > > the writer of AB and classified concept of earlier sages as wrong. > > But this concept was never supported by subsequent sages who > > developed the principles of predictive astrology. > > The knowledge was further developed by the time of sage parashar who > > wrote in Vishnu Puran (2, 8, 41-47) that Sun has to cross all 12 > > signs (ofcourse due to motion ot sun) in a day and night, hence it > > crosses 6 signs in day and 6 signs in night (though it may be wrong > > due to present knowledge). > > But I want to emphasise that skill was continuously developing. Hence > > concept of every sages is right in view of developmental process > > (this is the only process which is still being followed). Thus our > > sages were not wrong (even their wrong concept), actually we are > > wrong who are trying our best to turn the table and reversing the > > developmental sequence by any how proving the concept of sages as > > right (by wrong translation of slok etc.), perhaps somewhere > > religious compulsion may be there. But academically we must be right. > > > > > > Thanks > > Sanat > > > > 7-4-2008 > > > > Re: Science of astrology -1 > > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman@ > > sureshbalaraman > > Sat Apr 5, 2008 7:22 pm (PDT) > > > > In astronomical text Shatapatha Brahmana > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatapatha_Brahmana> , : > > > > " The sun is stationed for all time, in the middle of the day. [...] Of > > the sun, which is always in one and the same place, there is neither > > setting nor rising. " ............ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 ..>> Astronomy / Astrology is the eye that enables us to fix thehours for Vedic rituals.<< Why are Vedic rituals at all conducted?What for? To gain something,I am assuming .What about you?To go up one another notch,Maha-Purushas wrote treatise for predictive astrology.Brihat Parashar Hora Shastra,is one such treatise.Jaimini Sutras are yet another.Saravali etc…so I can keep going on. I think the original works emanated from India.Things were stolen from India,and got incorporated in to Greek,Roman etc civilization.This is my opinion. >>Do you believe that Sun God (ie Sun as a star) may like to teach the Suryasidhant to Maya(Yawan or Greek) that too when our Ved is full of praise to Sun. Isin not the partiality of the Sun that he like to teach his siddhantto Asura instead of sages of land of deity ie. India. However you areindirectly admitting that our sages do not have sufficient knowledgeand they have to borrow the knowledge from Greeks. And astrologymeans observation of Planets ie astronomy<<. I stand corrected,if I have given you this impression.My understanding is,in ancient india,people migrated to study and learn .from various parts of the world.Then many went back,created their own works based on their local customs & traditions.Ravana was a asuran,but yet he got boons from Shiva.God is impartial.Therefore asurans and rakshasas get boons too. Based on laws of astronomy,predictive astrology was followed.That today we have dime a dozen soothsayers is a different issue. sb , "sanat2221" <sanatkumar_jain wrote:>> Re: Science of astrology -1 > > Res. SB Ji,> It would be better in the interest of other members even for me if > you just cut and paste the relevant portion which you want to refer > from any site or forum etc. and readily available with you. Beside > this you may intimate the site (it is good) so that members may visit > the site (if desire), So that interaction may not hamper and every > thing may be available in the msg. I am going to summarize the > pointwise interaction for the benefit of existing and new members. It > will also be useful for this purpose too.> > Now the site of Sanatam Dharm which you have referred says (summery)> -----------------> The sun god, in disguise, taught the science to Maya, the carpenter > of the Asuras. The work incorporating his teachings is called the > Suryasiddhanta.> With our eyes we learn about distant objects. Just as our eyes help > us to know objects that are distant in space (that is just as we see > distant object with our eyes), Jyotisa sastra help us to find out the > position of the heavenly bodies.> Similarly, if you want to know the position of planets 50 years ago > or 50 years hence, you have to have recourse to Jyotisa. > This is the reason why Jyotisa is called the eye of the Vedapurusa. > Vedic rituals are performed according to the position of the various > planets [and the sun and the moon]. There are rules to determine this.> This Anga of the Vedas is indeed called "nayana" which word means "to > lead". A blind man needs to be led by another. So it is the eye that > leads. Astronomy / Astrology is the eye that enables us to fix the > hours for Vedic rituals. > -----------> So where it is mentioned that astrology (Astrology of primitive age > is presently known as astronomy) may be used for prediction of X,Y or > Z.. I have already mentioned that it was used for auspicious time for > yagya etc. (refer point 3 of msg of 7-4-08). Do you believe that Sun > God (ie Sun as a star) may like to teach the Suryasidhant to Maya > (Yawan or Greek) that too when our Ved is full of praise to Sun. Is > in not the partiality of the Sun that he like to teach his siddhant > to Asura instead of sages of land of deity ie. India. However you are > indirectly admitting that our sages do not have sufficient knowledge > and they have to borrow the knowledge from Greeks. And astrology > means observation of Planets ie astronomy.> > It has nothing to do as to whether some one is Arya samaji or not. > Main point was that Ved (which you are pleading) is not supporting > predictive astrology, which is also followed by Arya samaj. Nothing > else. It means astrologers are befooling public in the name of Ved. > Am I clear.> > Reg. your views that "celestial bodies were> used by maha-purushas and their main purpose to condition the mind to> attain moksha from births." I will like to say it is pure religious > matter and with this too you can not draw a inference that predictive > astrology is correct.> > I have referred NASA because like Greeks now NASA is more expert in > tracking the movement of planets whereas socalled Indian > Jyotishacharya are busy in their business of cheating in the coverup > of Vedang. Because innocent Indian public has only faith and not > willing to know the truth.> > Yes, Ved as a written document is oldest and Shatapatha Brahmana & > Aitareya Brahmana were written after Ved. Is there any doubt.> > Again I am not agree with your statement "the seven horses mentioned > are the seven colors of light which get refracted(VIBGYOR )……….it,is > a tribute to the ancient teachers,who have done a terrific job." > Because horse has noting to do with colours, and there is no such > mention in the Ved except some hearsay rumors for colours and > defective translations. Refer Rigved Mandal 4 sukt 44 slok 1, which > says that chariot of the Sun is made up of wood. Sukt 45 slok 1 says > that it is carrying three types of food and one container of Somras. > Slok 6 says that Sun controls the horses of chariot. Rigved Mandal 3 > sukt 30 slok 12 says that horses are freed only after completing the > round. Rigved Mandal 4 sukt 13 slok 4 says that Sun travel with the > help of powerful horses ………and so on I can give you many more > reference. But I think it is enough if you want to rethink about your > stand.> > So you are paying tribute to ancient teachers for adopting the > suryasiddhanta of asuras and for infusing that in Indian society.> > We are not irritating each other so don't worry carry on. We are just > exchanging our views and you are also free as to whether you are > willing to modify your stand or not.> > Other silent members may please exchange their views even though they > may be different or amateur.> Thanks> Sanat> > > > > > , "sureshbalaraman" > sureshbalaraman@ wrote:> >> > >>Because we are discussing the science of astrology hence it has> > nothing to do with any religious belief.<<> > > > As per Sanathana Dharma,its Vedanga "eye of the vedas".plz try to > read> > if you want to.. http://kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part10/chap1.htm > the> > great paramacharya or Mahaswami as he is being referred these > days,is> > saint among saints,guru amongst gurus..this is my opinion.. as per> > shankara who is eswara himself,bhaja govindam bhaja govindham mooda> > mathe,samprapthe..... i guess you get the drift> > > > >>1 Arya samaj who is actually caring for Ved is totally against the> > predictive astrology.<<> > > > i am not a arya samaji,but i respect raja ram mohan roy,fo r one > single> > act of abolishing "Sati" from sanathana dharma.> > > > >>astrologers is just a befooling tactics<<> > > > i think in my earlier posts i have mentioned why celestial bodies > were> > used by maha-purushas and their main purpose to condition the mind > to> > attain moksha from births.> > > > >>vedang (astronomy)from NASA <<> > > > NASA people are far from all these.Why are you dragging them to > create> > some sort of credibility in discussion.Americans respect Indians and> > vice versa.> > > > >>Shatapatha Brahmana & Aitareya Brahmana, which were written afte> > Ved.<<> > > > so you now have a verifiable date for vedas and the authorship of> > vedas..hmm..sounds like BS to me.> > > > >>Thus it was a development in skill. But translation is wrong as in> > that case what 7 horses were doing.<<> > > > the seven horses mentioned are the seven colors of light which get> > refracted(VIBGYOR).The great teachers of india,told stories to > impart> > knowledge,as was prevalent more than 5000 years back.That today we > are> > discussing about it,is a tribute to the ancient teachers,who have > done a> > terrific job.Om shri Gurubyo namaha!!> > > > >>Thus our sages were not wrong (even their wrong concept), > actually we> > are> > wrong who are trying our best to turn the table and reversing the> > developmental sequence by any how proving the concept of sages as> > right (by wrong translation of slok etc.), perhaps somewhere> > religious compulsion may be there. But academically we must be > right.<<> > > > I am not a sanskrit scholar.Every day/night ( even though,there is > no> > sun rise or sunset-philosophically) i learn,for me its a continuous> > process till i leave this body,spend some time with my folks in> > sorgam,and come to another body as per my karma.This is my> > self-realisation. :)> > > > Last but not least,i am sorry-if i have irritated you in any > way.Now i> > know that,i have done thru cyber-space.Hopefully you are telling the> > truth.If not may god give you good sense.> > > > > > > > Bye.> > > > Suresh Balaraman.> > > > , "sanat2221"> > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > >> > >> > >> > > Res. SB Ji,> > > I am not able to understand as to where you want to lead the> > > interaction by meaning of my name or belief in Ved by Jains. It > makes> > > no difference as to whether I believe in Ved or not. Because we > are> > > discussing the science of astrology hence it has nothing to do > with> > > any religious belief. So far your question is concerned I believe > Ved> > > like I believe Jainism or so. But if you are trying to say that if> > > someone believe in Ved then he must believe astrology. Then I am> > > sorry to say that you are totally wrong. Because> > > 1 Arya samaj who is actually caring for Ved is totally against the> > > predictive astrology.> > > 2 Ved has nothing to do with predictive astrology.> > > 3 Vedang ie astrology is a part (out of 6) of Ved, as is being> > > propagated by astrologers is just a befooling tactics. Astrology > as> > > vedang has nothing to do with prediction and Vedang (astrology) in> > > vedic era is limited to working out the auspicious time for yagya> > > etc. There was only one word astrology which has now been > bifurcated> > > like astrology (means prediction) and astronomy.> > > 4 With reference to present terminology, astronomy was vedang > (out of> > > 6) and not astrology.> > > 5 Astrologers are borrowing the information of vedang (astronomy)> > > from NASA (after forgetting the procedure adopted by our sages, > which> > > was primitive and not accurate), and astrology which has nothing > to> > > do with Ved is propagated on the name of our great sages > (astronomers> > > not astrologers).> > > 6 Thus even if you believe in Ved then you must oppose predictive> > > astrology as a religious matter (I am not diverting towards any> > > religioun).> > >> > > But scientifically either we may have reasons to verify that > planets> > > affects day-to-day event of every individual which can be decoded> > > with the help of astrological principles or we may find the basic > of> > > formulation of astrological principles and their scientific > viability> > > with applied forecast. In view of this I can say that I believe in> > > Ved, as I believe in astronomy (which was the concept of Ved),> > > whereas you are not believing on Ved because you believe in > astrology> > > (predictive). Hi Hi. Enjoy Enjoy. Don't irritate.> > >> > > In your another msg you have quoted astronomical text of > Shatapatha> > > Brahmana & Aitareya Brahmana, which were written afte Ved. Thus > there> > > concept was in contradiction to Ved due to development of skill> > > (because we know some thing much better after improving our> > > knowledge. This process is still going on though under the > heading of> > > science). According to SB Sun is not setting becaue how a god > riding> > > on a chariot of 7 horses may set (die, sleep or so), (because in > Ved> > > it set and rise). Thus it was a development in skill. But > translation> > > is wrong as in that case what 7 horses were doing.> > > As per AB which indicate further development in knowledge, says > (as> > > per your translation) that "people think the sun is setting, it is> > > not so; they are mistaken" means in those days our religious > concept> > > or sages (not people, because people were never allowed to read > Ved> > > etc. ) were of the opinion that sun sets, which was contradicted > by> > > the writer of AB and classified concept of earlier sages as wrong.> > > But this concept was never supported by subsequent sages who> > > developed the principles of predictive astrology.> > > The knowledge was further developed by the time of sage parashar > who> > > wrote in Vishnu Puran (2, 8, 41-47) that Sun has to cross all 12> > > signs (ofcourse due to motion ot sun) in a day and night, hence > it> > > crosses 6 signs in day and 6 signs in night (though it may be > wrong> > > due to present knowledge).> > > But I want to emphasise that skill was continuously developing. > Hence> > > concept of every sages is right in view of developmental process> > > (this is the only process which is still being followed). Thus our> > > sages were not wrong (even their wrong concept), actually we are> > > wrong who are trying our best to turn the table and reversing the> > > developmental sequence by any how proving the concept of sages as> > > right (by wrong translation of slok etc.), perhaps somewhere> > > religious compulsion may be there. But academically we must be > right.> > >> > >> > > Thanks> > > Sanat> > >> > > 7-4-2008> > >> > > Re: Science of astrology -1> > > Posted by: "sureshbalaraman" sureshbalaraman@> > > sureshbalaraman> > > Sat Apr 5, 2008 7:22 pm (PDT)> > >> > > In astronomical text Shatapatha Brahmana> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatapatha_Brahmana> , :> > >> > > "The sun is stationed for all time, in the middle of the day. > [...] Of> > > the sun, which is always in one and the same place, there is > neither> > > setting nor rising."............> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Res. SB Ji, Sorry for irritating you, though I never want to irritate any one. Again sorry. Remember our starting point which was tide by moon and mismatching of element of Budh with lordship. I have never initially referred either Ved or Gita or any other religious scriptures for evaluating the astrological (predictive) correctness. But you have referred Gita, Ved, Sat.B , At. Br, ShriPrabhupad and so on, in support of your stand. Whereas I am repeatedly intimating that Religious faith has nothing to do with the astrology. Thus if you bring them in support of your stand ie in support of predictive astrology then I have no space except to quote them in support of my stand. Incidentally, it is not acceptable to you, because astrologers have polluted the everything by advertising that astrology is a science (which you can see in any forum). Point of dispute is only that 1 - If you support predictive astrology as a science then you may have to support it scientifically. Or 2 - If you support predictive astrology as a part of knowledge of sages then you may have to support it on the basis of scriptures. or 3 - If you support predictive astrology on the basis of some religious scriptures then you can not say that predictive astrology is science. In that case you have to say that predictive astrology is our faith like religion (then you have to grab the astrologer who says that astrology is science). In that case I can at the most say that there is no predictive astrology in religion (which I have done). Then, if is up to you as to whether you are agree with my view or not. One point which I want to clear that this forum is exploring the science of astrology and not religious faith of astrology, or religion. As no religion says that religion or astrology is science, because field of religion is improvement in character of humans. So obviously it has nothing to do with science. But due to (1) business consideration (2) popularity of science (3) Immense faith on religion (4) weak self confidence (5) increasing struggle in life and so on; crocked astrologers are using media to pollute the mind of individual by mixing above points. Thus they use popularity of science, exploit faith on religion, publicize remedy in struggling society for their monetary gain. If you want then you can read my original books in Hindi and English on analysis of all predictive principles of astrology etc. So let us start with clean slate and intimate a little abt your self ie. Your age, date of birth, city, qualification, profession, hobby, family and so on. Then we will move with your any point in support of predictive astrology. I am not answering pointwise on your both msg of 8-4-08. If you want then you can again intimate your stand for my answer. Through out our discussion we have raised following points (I am also trying to upload the summery in file section. One file has been uploaded so far) so you may take any one or any new point or any point from my 1st msg. for further exchange of views and for the benefit of members. 1 – Tide by Moon 2 – Sun set or not 3 – Time of birth 4 – Vedang Jyotish 5 – Why astrology 6 – Longitude / Latitude in Vedic astrology. 7 – Nadi shastra Thanks and waiting for your valuable observations. Yours truly, sanat Members may please take part in interaction on any point and they are free to raise any point. , " sureshbalaraman " <sureshbalaraman wrote: > > sanatji,i only quoted from BG to give you an example as to how moon > nourishes the plant lives,herbs,mind of humans,tides.You are more than > welcome not to agree with anybody elses translations,thats your > prerogative and right.Don't you think,i should also be extended the same > courtesy.I love srila prabhupadas translations-thats it. > > Western world is able to do research and make a logical presentation of > findings,which is reviewed and then only certified.Our Maha Rishis were > stalwarts in their own rights.As a matter of fact,some of the knowledge > has been transferred from the east and may i daresay,the maharishis > themselves are reincarnating and born as scientiscts here in the > west,so that eternal knowledge will continue forever as long as the sun > shines and moon shines on reflected light.Jab tak suraj chaand rahay > ga,sarva vidya jagat may rahay ga.OK goodnight i am feeling sleepy. > > SB. > > , " sanat2221 " > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Res. SB Ji, > > No I have not replied like > > .>> " I enter each planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I > > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all herbs " << > > It is your msg of 4-4-08, on which I have replied. (you may check as > > I always attach a portion of previous link). > > > > I also disagree with your following inference. > > " By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the moon > > rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon to > > earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya. " > > Because you yourself are drawing any inference which suit you in > > modern concept without looking in to the fact as to what was said in > > what context. In which Ved, Puran or Greek or Varahmihir etc. told > > and accepted that Moon get the light from the Sun and without Sun; > > Moon is zero. It is only your translation in view of modern > > knowledge. But it was not said any where. > > > > Yes " vahana can mean a rath then and now a bmw " but you cant say that > > Krishna was moving on BMW. What I mean to say that if you do the > > translation of " Vahan " like BMW and try to infuse in the mind of > > general public that Krishna was traveling on BMW then what will > > happen. The same thing is happening with astrology. As no body try to > > look as to if you continue to join Krishna with BMW then you have to > > answer so many questions related to BMW, which will never available > > in Ved puran. Thus either you blame that I am not believing Ved or > > knowledge of sages etc or continue to support your stand with > > distorted translation, which is being done by almost all astrologers. > > > > Thus if Brahmand was eternal then how we can conclude that tide is > > creation of Moon (do not apply present knowledge) from this view. > > Thus if in primitive time our sages have formulated some principles > > then you have to find and answer in the then perspective and then you > > have to check as to that contention was correct in view of modern > > knowledge or not. But you can not support primitive concept with > > modern interpretation or with modern knowledge. > > > > Thus so far you are not able to answer your stand that high & low > > tides based on position of Moon from earth.Human body constitutes of > > fluids,so therefore there are subtle effects on the human body " and > > connection of inimical element of planet and sign. " > > > > Thanks > > Sanat > > 8-4-2008 > > > > Re: Science of astrology -1 > > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman@ > > sureshbalaraman > > Sun Apr 6, 2008 2:56 pm (PDT) > > > > You have intelligently replied to your own query,sanatji.>> " I enter > > each > > planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I > > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all herbs " > > << > > > > By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the moon > > rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon to > > earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya.What krishna says or at > > least visualised and interpreted to dritashtra,is said : everything is > > brahman.that brahman name is given as krishna.as he was the present > > avatar at that time.just like vahana can mean a rath then and now a > > bmw.therefore brahman existed then ,now,and future.all this futile > > contemplation is of no use to anybody.chant the gods name and obtain > > moksha,is what shankara says,let us do that.hara shankara jaya jaya > > shankara > > > > sb > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 >>>Religious faith has nothing to do with the astrology<<< Astrology is a branch of religion,branch of predictive science-just like studies like psephology or forecasters in economics etc.Humanity made different distinctions as religion and sciences etc.Basically everything is knowledge.Which help humanity in leading a life of happiness as per the society or community. Now the new mantra is,how to harness this knowledge in to making or earning money ,fame,glory...worldover.Religious knowledge as well as astrological knowledge is used to make money or create an illusionary happiness-to build new temples as if the existing ones are not enough.Each and every spiritual leader,amasses wealth explaining the same maha-vakyas,-more like old wine in new bottle .Astrologers are no different-as long as gullible public is available,they will make merry-thats intelligence.Just like you,who wants to promote your book by this tactic ROFL. sb. , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > > Res. SB Ji, > Sorry for irritating you, though I never want to irritate any one. > Again sorry. > Remember our starting point which was tide by moon and mismatching of > element of Budh with lordship. > > I have never initially referred either Ved or Gita or any other > religious scriptures for evaluating the astrological (predictive) > correctness. But you have referred Gita, Ved, Sat.B , At. Br, > ShriPrabhupad and so on, in support of your stand. Whereas I am > repeatedly intimating that Religious faith has nothing to do with the > astrology. Thus if you bring them in support of your stand ie in > support of predictive astrology then I have no space except to quote > them in support of my stand. Incidentally, it is not acceptable to > you, because astrologers have polluted the everything by advertising > that astrology is a science (which you can see in any forum). > > Point of dispute is only that > 1 - If you support predictive astrology as a science then you may > have to support it scientifically. Or > 2 - If you support predictive astrology as a part of knowledge of > sages then you may have to support it on the basis of scriptures. or > 3 - If you support predictive astrology on the basis of some > religious scriptures then you can not say that predictive astrology > is science. In that case you have to say that predictive astrology is > our faith like religion (then you have to grab the astrologer who > says that astrology is science). In that case I can at the most say > that there is no predictive astrology in religion (which I have > done). Then, if is up to you as to whether you are agree with my view > or not. > > One point which I want to clear that this forum is exploring the > science of astrology and not religious faith of astrology, or > religion. As no religion says that religion or astrology is science, > because field of religion is improvement in character of humans. So > obviously it has nothing to do with science. But due to (1) business > consideration (2) popularity of science (3) Immense faith on religion > (4) weak self confidence (5) increasing struggle in life and so on; > crocked astrologers are using media to pollute the mind of individual > by mixing above points. Thus they use popularity of science, exploit > faith on religion, publicize remedy in struggling society for their > monetary gain. If you want then you can read my original books in > Hindi and English on analysis of all predictive principles of > astrology etc. > > So let us start with clean slate and intimate a little abt your self > ie. Your age, date of birth, city, qualification, profession, hobby, > family and so on. Then we will move with your any point in support of > predictive astrology. I am not answering pointwise on your both msg > of 8-4-08. If you want then you can again intimate your stand for my > answer. > > Through out our discussion we have raised following points (I am also > trying to upload the summery in file section. One file has been > uploaded so far) so you may take any one or any new point or any > point from my 1st msg. for further exchange of views and for the > benefit of members. > > 1 – Tide by Moon > 2 – Sun set or not > 3 – Time of birth > 4 – Vedang Jyotish > 5 – Why astrology > 6 – Longitude / Latitude in Vedic astrology. > 7 – Nadi shastra > > Thanks and waiting for your valuable observations. > > Yours truly, > sanat > > > Members may please take part in interaction on any point and they are > free to raise any point. , " sureshbalaraman " > sureshbalaraman@ wrote: > > > > sanatji,i only quoted from BG to give you an example as to how moon > > nourishes the plant lives,herbs,mind of humans,tides.You are more > than > > welcome not to agree with anybody elses translations,thats your > > prerogative and right.Don't you think,i should also be extended the > same > > courtesy.I love srila prabhupadas translations-thats it. > > > > Western world is able to do research and make a logical > presentation of > > findings,which is reviewed and then only certified.Our Maha Rishis > were > > stalwarts in their own rights.As a matter of fact,some of the > knowledge > > has been transferred from the east and may i daresay,the maharishis > > themselves are reincarnating and born as scientiscts here in the > > west,so that eternal knowledge will continue forever as long as the > sun > > shines and moon shines on reflected light.Jab tak suraj chaand rahay > > ga,sarva vidya jagat may rahay ga.OK goodnight i am feeling sleepy. > > > > SB. > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Res. SB Ji, > > > No I have not replied like > > > .>> " I enter each planet, and by my energy they stay in their > orbits, I > > > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all > herbs " << > > > It is your msg of 4-4-08, on which I have replied. (you may check > as > > > I always attach a portion of previous link). > > > > > > I also disagree with your following inference. > > > " By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the moon > > > rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon to > > > earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya. " > > > Because you yourself are drawing any inference which suit you in > > > modern concept without looking in to the fact as to what was said > in > > > what context. In which Ved, Puran or Greek or Varahmihir etc. told > > > and accepted that Moon get the light from the Sun and without Sun; > > > Moon is zero. It is only your translation in view of modern > > > knowledge. But it was not said any where. > > > > > > Yes " vahana can mean a rath then and now a bmw " but you cant say > that > > > Krishna was moving on BMW. What I mean to say that if you do the > > > translation of " Vahan " like BMW and try to infuse in the mind of > > > general public that Krishna was traveling on BMW then what will > > > happen. The same thing is happening with astrology. As no body > try to > > > look as to if you continue to join Krishna with BMW then you have > to > > > answer so many questions related to BMW, which will never > available > > > in Ved puran. Thus either you blame that I am not believing Ved or > > > knowledge of sages etc or continue to support your stand with > > > distorted translation, which is being done by almost all > astrologers. > > > > > > Thus if Brahmand was eternal then how we can conclude that tide is > > > creation of Moon (do not apply present knowledge) from this view. > > > Thus if in primitive time our sages have formulated some > principles > > > then you have to find and answer in the then perspective and then > you > > > have to check as to that contention was correct in view of modern > > > knowledge or not. But you can not support primitive concept with > > > modern interpretation or with modern knowledge. > > > > > > Thus so far you are not able to answer your stand that high & low > > > tides based on position of Moon from earth.Human body constitutes > of > > > fluids,so therefore there are subtle effects on the human body " > and > > > connection of inimical element of planet and sign. " > > > > > > Thanks > > > Sanat > > > 8-4-2008 > > > > > > Re: Science of astrology -1 > > > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman@ > > > sureshbalaraman > > > Sun Apr 6, 2008 2:56 pm (PDT) > > > > > > You have intelligently replied to your own query,sanatji.>> " I > enter > > > each > > > planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I > > > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all herbs " > > > << > > > > > > By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the moon > > > rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon to > > > earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya.What krishna says > or at > > > least visualised and interpreted to dritashtra,is said : > everything is > > > brahman.that brahman name is given as krishna.as he was the > present > > > avatar at that time.just like vahana can mean a rath then and now > a > > > bmw.therefore brahman existed then ,now,and future.all this futile > > > contemplation is of no use to anybody.chant the gods name and > obtain > > > moksha,is what shankara says,let us do that.hara shankara jaya > jaya > > > shankara > > > > > > sb > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 1 – Tide by Moon:- Now when you want to take a wholistic view of the universe,then Moon is a insignificant graha;compared to the different galaxies available in the universe.But our,Mahrishis chose Moon as the graha,to control mind of beings;as to why the maharishis chose moon,i say WHY NOT? > 2 – Sun set or not:- That the sun travel is apparent from earth and it appears that sun is moving;(in my opinion sun is also orbiting and not stationary) so just like when you shine the torch on a ball only half the ball is illuminated and the other half remains dark.When the ball is rotated the half also gets illuminated while the other half remains dark.Because of the orbital patterns it appears as sun rise and sun set based on the assumption that sun is stationary.. > 3 – Time of birth:- Time of birth is when the childs umbilical cord is snipped and the child takes the first breath,that the child is truly in the physical world as a being.If one were to go the time of fertilisation of the sperm and the egg,that will give the actual accuracy of the being. > 4 – Vedang Jyotish:- Lagadha propunded his theory which extremely accurate with modern scientific knowledge.Again modern scientific knowledge is always evolving,therefore accuracy keeps changing as per the time and era. > 5 – Why astrology: Why NOT astrology? > 6 – Longitude / Latitude in Vedic astrology.:- Yes,with grenwhich as the point of reference.Suppose the point of refeerence is changed,then we can have a different latide and longitude.Presently world convention agrees upon the latitude and longitude based on sound principle which has been explained and accepted. > 7 – Nadi shastra:- As far this is concerned,its based primarily on hora shastra;and the process of elimination takes place when the astrologer keeps asking a client questions,whether this is correct or wrong and finally zeroes to the tee.More often than not,the client offers most of the basic answeres.Just like if we go to a doctor,he needs to diagonise the body with various instruments unlike in the past,just by detecting the pulse beats ayurvedic practioners could suggest remedies.The doctor ask you various questions to determine the disease that a patient has got and checks for symptoms. sb , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > > Res. SB Ji, > Sorry for irritating you, though I never want to irritate any one. > Again sorry. > Remember our starting point which was tide by moon and mismatching of > element of Budh with lordship. > > I have never initially referred either Ved or Gita or any other > religious scriptures for evaluating the astrological (predictive) > correctness. But you have referred Gita, Ved, Sat.B , At. Br, > ShriPrabhupad and so on, in support of your stand. Whereas I am > repeatedly intimating that Religious faith has nothing to do with the > astrology. Thus if you bring them in support of your stand ie in > support of predictive astrology then I have no space except to quote > them in support of my stand. Incidentally, it is not acceptable to > you, because astrologers have polluted the everything by advertising > that astrology is a science (which you can see in any forum). > > Point of dispute is only that > 1 - If you support predictive astrology as a science then you may > have to support it scientifically. Or > 2 - If you support predictive astrology as a part of knowledge of > sages then you may have to support it on the basis of scriptures. or > 3 - If you support predictive astrology on the basis of some > religious scriptures then you can not say that predictive astrology > is science. In that case you have to say that predictive astrology is > our faith like religion (then you have to grab the astrologer who > says that astrology is science). In that case I can at the most say > that there is no predictive astrology in religion (which I have > done). Then, if is up to you as to whether you are agree with my view > or not. > > One point which I want to clear that this forum is exploring the > science of astrology and not religious faith of astrology, or > religion. As no religion says that religion or astrology is science, > because field of religion is improvement in character of humans. So > obviously it has nothing to do with science. But due to (1) business > consideration (2) popularity of science (3) Immense faith on religion > (4) weak self confidence (5) increasing struggle in life and so on; > crocked astrologers are using media to pollute the mind of individual > by mixing above points. Thus they use popularity of science, exploit > faith on religion, publicize remedy in struggling society for their > monetary gain. If you want then you can read my original books in > Hindi and English on analysis of all predictive principles of > astrology etc. > > So let us start with clean slate and intimate a little abt your self > ie. Your age, date of birth, city, qualification, profession, hobby, > family and so on. Then we will move with your any point in support of > predictive astrology. I am not answering pointwise on your both msg > of 8-4-08. If you want then you can again intimate your stand for my > answer. > > Through out our discussion we have raised following points (I am also > trying to upload the summery in file section. One file has been > uploaded so far) so you may take any one or any new point or any > point from my 1st msg. for further exchange of views and for the > benefit of members. > > 1 – Tide by Moon > 2 – Sun set or not > 3 – Time of birth > 4 – Vedang Jyotish > 5 – Why astrology > 6 – Longitude / Latitude in Vedic astrology. > 7 – Nadi shastra > > Thanks and waiting for your valuable observations. > > Yours truly, > sanat > > > Members may please take part in interaction on any point and they are > free to raise any point. , " sureshbalaraman " > sureshbalaraman@ wrote: > > > > sanatji,i only quoted from BG to give you an example as to how moon > > nourishes the plant lives,herbs,mind of humans,tides.You are more > than > > welcome not to agree with anybody elses translations,thats your > > prerogative and right.Don't you think,i should also be extended the > same > > courtesy.I love srila prabhupadas translations-thats it. > > > > Western world is able to do research and make a logical > presentation of > > findings,which is reviewed and then only certified.Our Maha Rishis > were > > stalwarts in their own rights.As a matter of fact,some of the > knowledge > > has been transferred from the east and may i daresay,the maharishis > > themselves are reincarnating and born as scientiscts here in the > > west,so that eternal knowledge will continue forever as long as the > sun > > shines and moon shines on reflected light.Jab tak suraj chaand rahay > > ga,sarva vidya jagat may rahay ga.OK goodnight i am feeling sleepy. > > > > SB. > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Res. SB Ji, > > > No I have not replied like > > > .>> " I enter each planet, and by my energy they stay in their > orbits, I > > > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all > herbs " << > > > It is your msg of 4-4-08, on which I have replied. (you may check > as > > > I always attach a portion of previous link). > > > > > > I also disagree with your following inference. > > > " By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the moon > > > rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon to > > > earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya. " > > > Because you yourself are drawing any inference which suit you in > > > modern concept without looking in to the fact as to what was said > in > > > what context. In which Ved, Puran or Greek or Varahmihir etc. told > > > and accepted that Moon get the light from the Sun and without Sun; > > > Moon is zero. It is only your translation in view of modern > > > knowledge. But it was not said any where. > > > > > > Yes " vahana can mean a rath then and now a bmw " but you cant say > that > > > Krishna was moving on BMW. What I mean to say that if you do the > > > translation of " Vahan " like BMW and try to infuse in the mind of > > > general public that Krishna was traveling on BMW then what will > > > happen. The same thing is happening with astrology. As no body > try to > > > look as to if you continue to join Krishna with BMW then you have > to > > > answer so many questions related to BMW, which will never > available > > > in Ved puran. Thus either you blame that I am not believing Ved or > > > knowledge of sages etc or continue to support your stand with > > > distorted translation, which is being done by almost all > astrologers. > > > > > > Thus if Brahmand was eternal then how we can conclude that tide is > > > creation of Moon (do not apply present knowledge) from this view. > > > Thus if in primitive time our sages have formulated some > principles > > > then you have to find and answer in the then perspective and then > you > > > have to check as to that contention was correct in view of modern > > > knowledge or not. But you can not support primitive concept with > > > modern interpretation or with modern knowledge. > > > > > > Thus so far you are not able to answer your stand that high & low > > > tides based on position of Moon from earth.Human body constitutes > of > > > fluids,so therefore there are subtle effects on the human body " > and > > > connection of inimical element of planet and sign. " > > > > > > Thanks > > > Sanat > > > 8-4-2008 > > > > > > Re: Science of astrology -1 > > > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman@ > > > sureshbalaraman > > > Sun Apr 6, 2008 2:56 pm (PDT) > > > > > > You have intelligently replied to your own query,sanatji.>> " I > enter > > > each > > > planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I > > > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all herbs " > > > << > > > > > > By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the moon > > > rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon to > > > earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya.What krishna says > or at > > > least visualised and interpreted to dritashtra,is said : > everything is > > > brahman.that brahman name is given as krishna.as he was the > present > > > avatar at that time.just like vahana can mean a rath then and now > a > > > bmw.therefore brahman existed then ,now,and future.all this futile > > > contemplation is of no use to anybody.chant the gods name and > obtain > > > moksha,is what shankara says,let us do that.hara shankara jaya > jaya > > > shankara > > > > > > sb > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Resp. SB, Namaskar, I think I have sufficiently explained that Predictive astrology has nothing to do with primitive or religious astrology, which was actually astronomy. Hence now you may continue with your thought that >Astrology is a branch of religion< Above point is being summarized under SOA Vedang Jyotish (being uploaded shortly as I am slow). But I will only offer my comment as and when I find some new logic. Otherwise there is no sense in repeating the same arguments. That's why I am trying to summarize the every point of discussion with different opinion so that members may know about the latest position and may not repeat the same old logic. Because in this forum we are not only exchanging our views but we are actually analyzing every small point and want some logical outcome, conclusion. That's why name of the forum is " science of astrology " and signature picture says " Astrology a science or myth " . I fully agree with your 2nd para >Now the new mantra is,how to harness this knowledge in to making or earning money ,……………………….. they will make merry-thats intelligence.<<<<<<<< But I am not agree about your views that I am promoting book like your views in the para. Because if I want to earn money then it is very easy to sail the boat in same direction. Thus I would have been analyzing horoscopes and not the principles of astrology. When every forum is singing the same song then it is not a wise decision to go with analyzing the principles of astrology. What you think, an original book that too against the stream and for the first time is easy to write. It requires lot of study and so on and it is not a cut paste exercise. I don't want to bore you. Still I am open to all so that any astrologer may come and discuss. If you have any one who can logically discuss then I will welcome him. So far promotion of book is concerned; it is not my duty, because it is the work of publisher. But I have referred the book so that you may not think that I have suddenly came on the stage. You can also refer any book, article etc if their approach is to analyze the astrological principles, which is the aim and name of forum. I think it is enough. In your 2nd msg. you have given your opinion on all points. Your stand has already been included in the summery files. So far I have uploaded 2 files like SOA _________ (refer file section). As I pointed out earlier that we want to draw some conclusion by inviting various views of the members on every minor / major point. The main confusion in the mind is because we have intermingled whole knowledge and kept it on the shoulder of sages, nourished it with faith, don't want to analyze due to lack of time or ignorance and so on. So for analyzing the whole mountain of astrology, we must be logical, systematic, bifurcate knowledge in the slot of sequential development, do not divert and keep away our faith while analyzing and so on. So I find nothing new in your stand on these points on which I may offer my views but members may offer their observation. Thanks Yours truly, Sanat , " sureshbalaraman " <sureshbalaraman wrote: > > > 1 – Tide by Moon:- > > Now when you want to take a wholistic view of the universe,then Moon is > a insignificant graha;compared to the different galaxies available in > the universe.But our,Mahrishis chose Moon as the graha,to control mind > of beings;as to why the maharishis chose moon,i say WHY NOT? > > > > 2 – Sun set or not:- > > That the sun travel is apparent from earth and it appears that sun is > moving;(in my opinion sun is also orbiting and not stationary) so just > like when you shine the torch on a ball only half the ball is > illuminated and the other half remains dark.When the ball is rotated the > half also gets illuminated while the other half remains dark.Because of > the orbital patterns it appears as sun rise and sun set based on the > assumption that sun is stationary.. > > > > 3 – Time of birth:- > > > > Time of birth is when the childs umbilical cord is snipped and the child > takes the first breath,that the child is truly in the physical world as > a being.If one were to go the time of fertilisation of the sperm and the > egg,that will give the actual accuracy of the being. > > > > 4 – Vedang Jyotish:- > > Lagadha propunded his theory which extremely accurate with modern > scientific knowledge.Again modern scientific knowledge is always > evolving,therefore accuracy keeps changing as per the time and era. > > 5 – Why astrology: > > Why NOT astrology? > > > > 6 – Longitude / Latitude in Vedic astrology.:- > > Yes,with grenwhich as the point of reference.Suppose the point of > refeerence is changed,then we can have a different latide and > longitude.Presently world convention agrees upon the latitude and > longitude based on sound principle which has been explained and > accepted. > > > > 7 – Nadi shastra:- > > As far this is concerned,its based primarily on hora shastra;and the > process of elimination takes place when the astrologer keeps asking a > client questions,whether this is correct or wrong and finally zeroes to > the tee.More often than not,the client offers most of the basic > answeres.Just like if we go to a doctor,he needs to diagonise the body > with various instruments unlike in the past,just by detecting the pulse > beats ayurvedic practioners could suggest remedies.The doctor ask you > various questions to determine the disease that a patient has got and > checks for symptoms. > > sb > > , " sanat2221 " > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Res. SB Ji, > > Sorry for irritating you, though I never want to irritate any one. > > Again sorry. > > Remember our starting point which was tide by moon and mismatching of > > element of Budh with lordship. > > > > I have never initially referred either Ved or Gita or any other > > religious scriptures for evaluating the astrological (predictive) > > correctness. But you have referred Gita, Ved, Sat.B , At. Br, > > ShriPrabhupad and so on, in support of your stand. Whereas I am > > repeatedly intimating that Religious faith has nothing to do with the > > astrology. Thus if you bring them in support of your stand ie in > > support of predictive astrology then I have no space except to quote > > them in support of my stand. Incidentally, it is not acceptable to > > you, because astrologers have polluted the everything by advertising > > that astrology is a science (which you can see in any forum). > > > > Point of dispute is only that > > 1 - If you support predictive astrology as a science then you may > > have to support it scientifically. Or > > 2 - If you support predictive astrology as a part of knowledge of > > sages then you may have to support it on the basis of scriptures. or > > 3 - If you support predictive astrology on the basis of some > > religious scriptures then you can not say that predictive astrology > > is science. In that case you have to say that predictive astrology is > > our faith like religion (then you have to grab the astrologer who > > says that astrology is science). In that case I can at the most say > > that there is no predictive astrology in religion (which I have > > done). Then, if is up to you as to whether you are agree with my view > > or not. > > > > One point which I want to clear that this forum is exploring the > > science of astrology and not religious faith of astrology, or > > religion. As no religion says that religion or astrology is science, > > because field of religion is improvement in character of humans. So > > obviously it has nothing to do with science. But due to (1) business > > consideration (2) popularity of science (3) Immense faith on religion > > (4) weak self confidence (5) increasing struggle in life and so on; > > crocked astrologers are using media to pollute the mind of individual > > by mixing above points. Thus they use popularity of science, exploit > > faith on religion, publicize remedy in struggling society for their > > monetary gain. If you want then you can read my original books in > > Hindi and English on analysis of all predictive principles of > > astrology etc. > > > > So let us start with clean slate and intimate a little abt your self > > ie. Your age, date of birth, city, qualification, profession, hobby, > > family and so on. Then we will move with your any point in support of > > predictive astrology. I am not answering pointwise on your both msg > > of 8-4-08. If you want then you can again intimate your stand for my > > answer. > > > > Through out our discussion we have raised following points (I am also > > trying to upload the summery in file section. One file has been > > uploaded so far) so you may take any one or any new point or any > > point from my 1st msg. for further exchange of views and for the > > benefit of members. > > > > 1 – Tide by Moon > > 2 – Sun set or not > > 3 – Time of birth > > 4 – Vedang Jyotish > > 5 – Why astrology > > 6 – Longitude / Latitude in Vedic astrology. > > 7 – Nadi shastra > > > > Thanks and waiting for your valuable observations. > > > > Yours truly, > > sanat > > > > > > Members may please take part in interaction on any point and they are > > free to raise any point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " sureshbalaraman " > > sureshbalaraman@ wrote: > > > > > > sanatji,i only quoted from BG to give you an example as to how moon > > > nourishes the plant lives,herbs,mind of humans,tides.You are more > > than > > > welcome not to agree with anybody elses translations,thats your > > > prerogative and right.Don't you think,i should also be extended the > > same > > > courtesy.I love srila prabhupadas translations-thats it. > > > > > > Western world is able to do research and make a logical > > presentation of > > > findings,which is reviewed and then only certified.Our Maha Rishis > > were > > > stalwarts in their own rights.As a matter of fact,some of the > > knowledge > > > has been transferred from the east and may i daresay,the maharishis > > > themselves are reincarnating and born as scientiscts here in the > > > west,so that eternal knowledge will continue forever as long as the > > sun > > > shines and moon shines on reflected light.Jab tak suraj chaand rahay > > > ga,sarva vidya jagat may rahay ga.OK goodnight i am feeling sleepy. > > > > > > SB. > > > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Res. SB Ji, > > > > No I have not replied like > > > > .>> " I enter each planet, and by my energy they stay in their > > orbits, I > > > > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all > > herbs " << > > > > It is your msg of 4-4-08, on which I have replied. (you may check > > as > > > > I always attach a portion of previous link). > > > > > > > > I also disagree with your following inference. > > > > " By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the moon > > > > rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon to > > > > earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya. " > > > > Because you yourself are drawing any inference which suit you in > > > > modern concept without looking in to the fact as to what was said > > in > > > > what context. In which Ved, Puran or Greek or Varahmihir etc. told > > > > and accepted that Moon get the light from the Sun and without Sun; > > > > Moon is zero. It is only your translation in view of modern > > > > knowledge. But it was not said any where. > > > > > > > > Yes " vahana can mean a rath then and now a bmw " but you cant say > > that > > > > Krishna was moving on BMW. What I mean to say that if you do the > > > > translation of " Vahan " like BMW and try to infuse in the mind of > > > > general public that Krishna was traveling on BMW then what will > > > > happen. The same thing is happening with astrology. As no body > > try to > > > > look as to if you continue to join Krishna with BMW then you have > > to > > > > answer so many questions related to BMW, which will never > > available > > > > in Ved puran. Thus either you blame that I am not believing Ved or > > > > knowledge of sages etc or continue to support your stand with > > > > distorted translation, which is being done by almost all > > astrologers. > > > > > > > > Thus if Brahmand was eternal then how we can conclude that tide is > > > > creation of Moon (do not apply present knowledge) from this view. > > > > Thus if in primitive time our sages have formulated some > > principles > > > > then you have to find and answer in the then perspective and then > > you > > > > have to check as to that contention was correct in view of modern > > > > knowledge or not. But you can not support primitive concept with > > > > modern interpretation or with modern knowledge. > > > > > > > > Thus so far you are not able to answer your stand that high & low > > > > tides based on position of Moon from earth.Human body constitutes > > of > > > > fluids,so therefore there are subtle effects on the human body " > > and > > > > connection of inimical element of planet and sign. " > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Sanat > > > > 8-4-2008 > > > > > > > > Re: Science of astrology -1 > > > > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman@ > > > > sureshbalaraman > > > > Sun Apr 6, 2008 2:56 pm (PDT) > > > > > > > > You have intelligently replied to your own query,sanatji.>> " I > > enter > > > > each > > > > planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I > > > > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all herbs " > > > > << > > > > > > > > By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the moon > > > > rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon to > > > > earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya.What krishna says > > or at > > > > least visualised and interpreted to dritashtra,is said : > > everything is > > > > brahman.that brahman name is given as krishna.as he was the > > present > > > > avatar at that time.just like vahana can mean a rath then and now > > a > > > > bmw.therefore brahman existed then ,now,and future.all this futile > > > > contemplation is of no use to anybody.chant the gods name and > > obtain > > > > moksha,is what shankara says,let us do that.hara shankara jaya > > jaya > > > > shankara > > > > > > > > sb > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Sanatji : I was just joking and having lil bit of fun about your book.Sure why not profit,after all we all want to make a living. Jyotisham history is steeped in our sanathana dharma.You cannot delineate to present system of things.When the Maharishis lived,they did have ESP,they could leave their body and travel to distant planets,read anothers mind etc.In a nutshell they were amazing lot our ancestors.That is why our dharma insists on pitru tarpanam.Now according to our present times,we can adopt certain changes,as long as the purity of mind is continued. Jyotish was elaborated for a different scene.Kings & Queens had to be explained and controlled by Maharishis.Very austere living was done by Maharishis.They got enlightened and in that state of mind,they wrote postualtes,theorems laws etc for humanity to follow.They had Vaak siddhi,which even today some individuals possess.Whatever they say will happen.Example are our jagat gurus,avataars like Sathya Sai Baba,Mata Amritananda Mayi etc.Even though they are Sat chit Ananda Swaroopams,but they never discourage knowledge gained for sathvic purposes. Our Panchangam itself,is a incredible work of astronomy.By having modern methods,we should synergise the findings of the old with new,is my opinion. sb , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > Resp. SB, > Namaskar, > I think I have sufficiently explained that Predictive astrology has > nothing to do with primitive or religious astrology, which was > actually astronomy. Hence now you may continue with your thought that > >Astrology is a branch of religion< > Above point is being summarized under SOA Vedang Jyotish (being > uploaded shortly as I am slow). But I will only offer my comment as > and when I find some new logic. Otherwise there is no sense in > repeating the same arguments. That's why I am trying to summarize the > every point of discussion with different opinion so that members may > know about the latest position and may not repeat the same old logic. > Because in this forum we are not only exchanging our views but we are > actually analyzing every small point and want some logical outcome, > conclusion. That's why name of the forum is " science of astrology " > and signature picture says " Astrology a science or myth " . > I fully agree with your 2nd para > >Now the new mantra is,how to harness this knowledge in to making or > earning money ,……………………….. they will make > merry-thats intelligence.<<<<<<<< > But I am not agree about your views that I am promoting book like > your views in the para. Because if I want to earn money then it is > very easy to sail the boat in same direction. Thus I would have been > analyzing horoscopes and not the principles of astrology. When every > forum is singing the same song then it is not a wise decision to go > with analyzing the principles of astrology. What you think, an > original book that too against the stream and for the first time is > easy to write. It requires lot of study and so on and it is not a cut > paste exercise. I don't want to bore you. Still I am open to all so > that any astrologer may come and discuss. If you have any one who can > logically discuss then I will welcome him. So far promotion of book > is concerned; it is not my duty, because it is the work of publisher. > But I have referred the book so that you may not think that I have > suddenly came on the stage. You can also refer any book, article etc > if their approach is to analyze the astrological principles, which is > the aim and name of forum. I think it is enough. > > In your 2nd msg. you have given your opinion on all points. Your > stand has already been included in the summery files. So far I have > uploaded 2 files like SOA _________ (refer file section). As I > pointed out earlier that we want to draw some conclusion by inviting > various views of the members on every minor / major point. The main > confusion in the mind is because we have intermingled whole knowledge > and kept it on the shoulder of sages, nourished it with faith, don't > want to analyze due to lack of time or ignorance and so on. So for > analyzing the whole mountain of astrology, we must be logical, > systematic, bifurcate knowledge in the slot of sequential > development, do not divert and keep away our faith while analyzing > and so on. So I find nothing new in your stand on these points on > which I may offer my views but members may offer their observation. > Thanks > Yours truly, > Sanat > > > > > , " sureshbalaraman " > sureshbalaraman@ wrote: > > > > > > 1 – Tide by Moon:- > > > > Now when you want to take a wholistic view of the universe,then > Moon is > > a insignificant graha;compared to the different galaxies available > in > > the universe.But our,Mahrishis chose Moon as the graha,to control > mind > > of beings;as to why the maharishis chose moon,i say WHY NOT? > > > > > > > 2 – Sun set or not:- > > > > That the sun travel is apparent from earth and it appears that sun > is > > moving;(in my opinion sun is also orbiting and not stationary) so > just > > like when you shine the torch on a ball only half the ball is > > illuminated and the other half remains dark.When the ball is > rotated the > > half also gets illuminated while the other half remains > dark.Because of > > the orbital patterns it appears as sun rise and sun set based on the > > assumption that sun is stationary.. > > > > > > > 3 – Time of birth:- > > > > > > > > Time of birth is when the childs umbilical cord is snipped and the > child > > takes the first breath,that the child is truly in the physical > world as > > a being.If one were to go the time of fertilisation of the sperm > and the > > egg,that will give the actual accuracy of the being. > > > > > > > 4 – Vedang Jyotish:- > > > > Lagadha propunded his theory which extremely accurate with modern > > scientific knowledge.Again modern scientific knowledge is always > > evolving,therefore accuracy keeps changing as per the time and era. > > > 5 – Why astrology: > > > > Why NOT astrology? > > > > > > > 6 – Longitude / Latitude in Vedic astrology.:- > > > > Yes,with grenwhich as the point of reference.Suppose the point of > > refeerence is changed,then we can have a different latide and > > longitude.Presently world convention agrees upon the latitude and > > longitude based on sound principle which has been explained and > > accepted. > > > > > > > 7 – Nadi shastra:- > > > > As far this is concerned,its based primarily on hora shastra;and the > > process of elimination takes place when the astrologer keeps asking > a > > client questions,whether this is correct or wrong and finally > zeroes to > > the tee.More often than not,the client offers most of the basic > > answeres.Just like if we go to a doctor,he needs to diagonise the > body > > with various instruments unlike in the past,just by detecting the > pulse > > beats ayurvedic practioners could suggest remedies.The doctor ask > you > > various questions to determine the disease that a patient has got > and > > checks for symptoms. > > > > sb > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Res. SB Ji, > > > Sorry for irritating you, though I never want to irritate any one. > > > Again sorry. > > > Remember our starting point which was tide by moon and > mismatching of > > > element of Budh with lordship. > > > > > > I have never initially referred either Ved or Gita or any other > > > religious scriptures for evaluating the astrological (predictive) > > > correctness. But you have referred Gita, Ved, Sat.B , At. Br, > > > ShriPrabhupad and so on, in support of your stand. Whereas I am > > > repeatedly intimating that Religious faith has nothing to do with > the > > > astrology. Thus if you bring them in support of your stand ie in > > > support of predictive astrology then I have no space except to > quote > > > them in support of my stand. Incidentally, it is not acceptable to > > > you, because astrologers have polluted the everything by > advertising > > > that astrology is a science (which you can see in any forum). > > > > > > Point of dispute is only that > > > 1 - If you support predictive astrology as a science then you may > > > have to support it scientifically. Or > > > 2 - If you support predictive astrology as a part of knowledge of > > > sages then you may have to support it on the basis of scriptures. > or > > > 3 - If you support predictive astrology on the basis of some > > > religious scriptures then you can not say that predictive > astrology > > > is science. In that case you have to say that predictive > astrology is > > > our faith like religion (then you have to grab the astrologer who > > > says that astrology is science). In that case I can at the most > say > > > that there is no predictive astrology in religion (which I have > > > done). Then, if is up to you as to whether you are agree with my > view > > > or not. > > > > > > One point which I want to clear that this forum is exploring the > > > science of astrology and not religious faith of astrology, or > > > religion. As no religion says that religion or astrology is > science, > > > because field of religion is improvement in character of humans. > So > > > obviously it has nothing to do with science. But due to (1) > business > > > consideration (2) popularity of science (3) Immense faith on > religion > > > (4) weak self confidence (5) increasing struggle in life and so > on; > > > crocked astrologers are using media to pollute the mind of > individual > > > by mixing above points. Thus they use popularity of science, > exploit > > > faith on religion, publicize remedy in struggling society for > their > > > monetary gain. If you want then you can read my original books in > > > Hindi and English on analysis of all predictive principles of > > > astrology etc. > > > > > > So let us start with clean slate and intimate a little abt your > self > > > ie. Your age, date of birth, city, qualification, profession, > hobby, > > > family and so on. Then we will move with your any point in > support of > > > predictive astrology. I am not answering pointwise on your both > msg > > > of 8-4-08. If you want then you can again intimate your stand for > my > > > answer. > > > > > > Through out our discussion we have raised following points (I am > also > > > trying to upload the summery in file section. One file has been > > > uploaded so far) so you may take any one or any new point or any > > > point from my 1st msg. for further exchange of views and for the > > > benefit of members. > > > > > > 1 – Tide by Moon > > > 2 – Sun set or not > > > 3 – Time of birth > > > 4 – Vedang Jyotish > > > 5 – Why astrology > > > 6 – Longitude / Latitude in Vedic astrology. > > > 7 – Nadi shastra > > > > > > Thanks and waiting for your valuable observations. > > > > > > Yours truly, > > > sanat > > > > > > > > > Members may please take part in interaction on any point and they > are > > > free to raise any point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " sureshbalaraman " > > > sureshbalaraman@ wrote: > > > > > > > > sanatji,i only quoted from BG to give you an example as to how > moon > > > > nourishes the plant lives,herbs,mind of humans,tides.You are > more > > > than > > > > welcome not to agree with anybody elses translations,thats your > > > > prerogative and right.Don't you think,i should also be extended > the > > > same > > > > courtesy.I love srila prabhupadas translations-thats it. > > > > > > > > Western world is able to do research and make a logical > > > presentation of > > > > findings,which is reviewed and then only certified.Our Maha > Rishis > > > were > > > > stalwarts in their own rights.As a matter of fact,some of the > > > knowledge > > > > has been transferred from the east and may i daresay,the > maharishis > > > > themselves are reincarnating and born as scientiscts here in > the > > > > west,so that eternal knowledge will continue forever as long as > the > > > sun > > > > shines and moon shines on reflected light.Jab tak suraj chaand > rahay > > > > ga,sarva vidya jagat may rahay ga.OK goodnight i am feeling > sleepy. > > > > > > > > SB. > > > > > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Res. SB Ji, > > > > > No I have not replied like > > > > > .>> " I enter each planet, and by my energy they stay in their > > > orbits, I > > > > > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all > > > herbs " << > > > > > It is your msg of 4-4-08, on which I have replied. (you may > check > > > as > > > > > I always attach a portion of previous link). > > > > > > > > > > I also disagree with your following inference. > > > > > " By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the > moon > > > > > rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon > to > > > > > earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya. " > > > > > Because you yourself are drawing any inference which suit you > in > > > > > modern concept without looking in to the fact as to what was > said > > > in > > > > > what context. In which Ved, Puran or Greek or Varahmihir etc. > told > > > > > and accepted that Moon get the light from the Sun and without > Sun; > > > > > Moon is zero. It is only your translation in view of modern > > > > > knowledge. But it was not said any where. > > > > > > > > > > Yes " vahana can mean a rath then and now a bmw " but you cant > say > > > that > > > > > Krishna was moving on BMW. What I mean to say that if you do > the > > > > > translation of " Vahan " like BMW and try to infuse in the mind > of > > > > > general public that Krishna was traveling on BMW then what > will > > > > > happen. The same thing is happening with astrology. As no body > > > try to > > > > > look as to if you continue to join Krishna with BMW then you > have > > > to > > > > > answer so many questions related to BMW, which will never > > > available > > > > > in Ved puran. Thus either you blame that I am not believing > Ved or > > > > > knowledge of sages etc or continue to support your stand with > > > > > distorted translation, which is being done by almost all > > > astrologers. > > > > > > > > > > Thus if Brahmand was eternal then how we can conclude that > tide is > > > > > creation of Moon (do not apply present knowledge) from this > view. > > > > > Thus if in primitive time our sages have formulated some > > > principles > > > > > then you have to find and answer in the then perspective and > then > > > you > > > > > have to check as to that contention was correct in view of > modern > > > > > knowledge or not. But you can not support primitive concept > with > > > > > modern interpretation or with modern knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > Thus so far you are not able to answer your stand that high & > low > > > > > tides based on position of Moon from earth.Human body > constitutes > > > of > > > > > fluids,so therefore there are subtle effects on the human > body " > > > and > > > > > connection of inimical element of planet and sign. " > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Sanat > > > > > 8-4-2008 > > > > > > > > > > Re: Science of astrology -1 > > > > > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman@ > > > > > sureshbalaraman > > > > > Sun Apr 6, 2008 2:56 pm (PDT) > > > > > > > > > > You have intelligently replied to your own query,sanatji.>> " I > > > enter > > > > > each > > > > > planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I > > > > > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all > herbs " > > > > > << > > > > > > > > > > By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the > moon > > > > > rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon > to > > > > > earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya.What krishna > says > > > or at > > > > > least visualised and interpreted to dritashtra,is said : > > > everything is > > > > > brahman.that brahman name is given as krishna.as he was the > > > present > > > > > avatar at that time.just like vahana can mean a rath then and > now > > > a > > > > > bmw.therefore brahman existed then ,now,and future.all this > futile > > > > > contemplation is of no use to anybody.chant the gods name and > > > obtain > > > > > moksha,is what shankara says,let us do that.hara shankara jaya > > > jaya > > > > > shankara > > > > > > > > > > sb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 Science of astrology Resp. SB, Namaskar and thanks for raising many points in a day. I am trying to bifurcate the points. I am happy to know that you can cut jokes too >>>>>I was just joking and having lil bit of fun about your book<<<<<< Otherwise I was thinking you are very serious about my book. But again not agree with >>>>>>>Sure why not profit,after all we all want to make a living.<<<<< because I have neither earned nor want to earn from the book. Perhaps you are not aware that on such type of classified research based books, publisher hardly pays 5% as royalty, though this book having scientific analysis was presented to our Ex- President Kalaam. Thus for example on my Hindi book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna Galat " costing Rs 350/-, I will get merely Rs. 17=50. If one copy / day is sold by publisher even then I will get this amount after many years. So do you think that Rs 17-50 may be enough for living? Secondly, many readers approach me for purchasing a copy of book, with some hope and I have to give them a copy definitely discounting more then my royalty, which will subsequently be set off with the sale of other copies by the publisher. Thus I am sure that in last publisher will say that my royalty of Rs 17=50 per copy has been set off with the excess rebate on some copies. I hope it will clear the picture to you. Thirdly, it is very easy to earn by forecasting on a horoscope by applying some principles without knowing as to whether principle is right or wrong and earning much more in the name of remedy. In the process to find truth after analyzing a horoscope I myself developed a horoscope covering all principles in 5 type of charts (I am uploading refer file section). Though you may decode it with the hints given, but if you read full detail (of course in the book) then it is very easy to find every detail. This I am saying to emphasize that it is not a money oriented decision to write a book. I can easily earn by befooling innocent public, But I have sufficient source of income which is more then enough for my little family. I hope this will clear your views regarding book. Thanks, Sanat , " sureshbalaraman " <sureshbalaraman wrote: > > > Sanatji : > > I was just joking and having lil bit of fun about your book.Sure why not > profit,after all we all want to make a living. > > Jyotisham history is steeped in our sanathana dharma.You cannot > delineate to present system of things.When the Maharishis lived,they did > have ESP,they could leave their body and travel to distant planets,read > anothers mind etc.In a nutshell they were amazing lot our ancestors.That > is why our dharma insists on pitru tarpanam.Now according to our present > times,we can adopt certain changes,as long as the purity of mind is > continued. > > Jyotish was elaborated for a different scene.Kings & Queens had to be > explained and controlled by Maharishis.Very austere living was done by > Maharishis.They got enlightened and in that state of mind,they wrote > postualtes,theorems laws etc for humanity to follow.They had Vaak > siddhi,which even today some individuals possess.Whatever they say will > happen.Example are our jagat gurus,avataars like Sathya Sai Baba,Mata > Amritananda Mayi etc.Even though they are Sat chit Ananda Swaroopams,but > they never discourage knowledge gained for sathvic purposes. > > Our Panchangam itself,is a incredible work of astronomy.By having modern > methods,we should synergise the findings of the old with new,is my > opinion. > > > > sb > > > , " sanat2221 " > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > Resp. SB, > > Namaskar, > > I think I have sufficiently explained that Predictive astrology has > > nothing to do with primitive or religious astrology, which was > > actually astronomy. Hence now you may continue with your thought that > > >Astrology is a branch of religion< > > Above point is being summarized under SOA Vedang Jyotish (being > > uploaded shortly as I am slow). But I will only offer my comment as > > and when I find some new logic. Otherwise there is no sense in > > repeating the same arguments. That's why I am trying to summarize the > > every point of discussion with different opinion so that members may > > know about the latest position and may not repeat the same old logic. > > Because in this forum we are not only exchanging our views but we are > > actually analyzing every small point and want some logical outcome, > > conclusion. That's why name of the forum is " science of astrology " > > and signature picture says " Astrology a science or myth " . > > I fully agree with your 2nd para > > >Now the new mantra is,how to harness this knowledge in to making or > > earning money ,……………………….. they will make > > merry-thats intelligence.<<<<<<<< > > But I am not agree about your views that I am promoting book like > > your views in the para. Because if I want to earn money then it is > > very easy to sail the boat in same direction. Thus I would have been > > analyzing horoscopes and not the principles of astrology. When every > > forum is singing the same song then it is not a wise decision to go > > with analyzing the principles of astrology. What you think, an > > original book that too against the stream and for the first time is > > easy to write. It requires lot of study and so on and it is not a cut > > paste exercise. I don't want to bore you. Still I am open to all so > > that any astrologer may come and discuss. If you have any one who can > > logically discuss then I will welcome him. So far promotion of book > > is concerned; it is not my duty, because it is the work of publisher. > > But I have referred the book so that you may not think that I have > > suddenly came on the stage. You can also refer any book, article etc > > if their approach is to analyze the astrological principles, which is > > the aim and name of forum. I think it is enough. > > > > In your 2nd msg. you have given your opinion on all points. Your > > stand has already been included in the summery files. So far I have > > uploaded 2 files like SOA _________ (refer file section). As I > > pointed out earlier that we want to draw some conclusion by inviting > > various views of the members on every minor / major point. The main > > confusion in the mind is because we have intermingled whole knowledge > > and kept it on the shoulder of sages, nourished it with faith, don't > > want to analyze due to lack of time or ignorance and so on. So for > > analyzing the whole mountain of astrology, we must be logical, > > systematic, bifurcate knowledge in the slot of sequential > > development, do not divert and keep away our faith while analyzing > > and so on. So I find nothing new in your stand on these points on > > which I may offer my views but members may offer their observation. > > Thanks > > Yours truly, > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > , " sureshbalaraman " > > sureshbalaraman@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > 1 – Tide by Moon:- > > > > > > Now when you want to take a wholistic view of the universe,then > > Moon is > > > a insignificant graha;compared to the different galaxies available > > in > > > the universe.But our,Mahrishis chose Moon as the graha,to control > > mind > > > of beings;as to why the maharishis chose moon,i say WHY NOT? > > > > > > > > > > 2 – Sun set or not:- > > > > > > That the sun travel is apparent from earth and it appears that sun > > is > > > moving;(in my opinion sun is also orbiting and not stationary) so > > just > > > like when you shine the torch on a ball only half the ball is > > > illuminated and the other half remains dark.When the ball is > > rotated the > > > half also gets illuminated while the other half remains > > dark.Because of > > > the orbital patterns it appears as sun rise and sun set based on the > > > assumption that sun is stationary.. > > > > > > > > > > 3 – Time of birth:- > > > > > > > > > > > > Time of birth is when the childs umbilical cord is snipped and the > > child > > > takes the first breath,that the child is truly in the physical > > world as > > > a being.If one were to go the time of fertilisation of the sperm > > and the > > > egg,that will give the actual accuracy of the being. > > > > > > > > > > 4 – Vedang Jyotish:- > > > > > > Lagadha propunded his theory which extremely accurate with modern > > > scientific knowledge.Again modern scientific knowledge is always > > > evolving,therefore accuracy keeps changing as per the time and era. > > > > 5 – Why astrology: > > > > > > Why NOT astrology? > > > > > > > > > > 6 – Longitude / Latitude in Vedic astrology.:- > > > > > > Yes,with grenwhich as the point of reference.Suppose the point of > > > refeerence is changed,then we can have a different latide and > > > longitude.Presently world convention agrees upon the latitude and > > > longitude based on sound principle which has been explained and > > > accepted. > > > > > > > > > > 7 – Nadi shastra:- > > > > > > As far this is concerned,its based primarily on hora shastra;and the > > > process of elimination takes place when the astrologer keeps asking > > a > > > client questions,whether this is correct or wrong and finally > > zeroes to > > > the tee.More often than not,the client offers most of the basic > > > answeres.Just like if we go to a doctor,he needs to diagonise the > > body > > > with various instruments unlike in the past,just by detecting the > > pulse > > > beats ayurvedic practioners could suggest remedies.The doctor ask > > you > > > various questions to determine the disease that a patient has got > > and > > > checks for symptoms. > > > > > > sb > > > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Res. SB Ji, > > > > Sorry for irritating you, though I never want to irritate any one. > > > > Again sorry. > > > > Remember our starting point which was tide by moon and > > mismatching of > > > > element of Budh with lordship. > > > > > > > > I have never initially referred either Ved or Gita or any other > > > > religious scriptures for evaluating the astrological (predictive) > > > > correctness. But you have referred Gita, Ved, Sat.B , At. Br, > > > > ShriPrabhupad and so on, in support of your stand. Whereas I am > > > > repeatedly intimating that Religious faith has nothing to do with > > the > > > > astrology. Thus if you bring them in support of your stand ie in > > > > support of predictive astrology then I have no space except to > > quote > > > > them in support of my stand. Incidentally, it is not acceptable to > > > > you, because astrologers have polluted the everything by > > advertising > > > > that astrology is a science (which you can see in any forum). > > > > > > > > Point of dispute is only that > > > > 1 - If you support predictive astrology as a science then you may > > > > have to support it scientifically. Or > > > > 2 - If you support predictive astrology as a part of knowledge of > > > > sages then you may have to support it on the basis of scriptures. > > or > > > > 3 - If you support predictive astrology on the basis of some > > > > religious scriptures then you can not say that predictive > > astrology > > > > is science. In that case you have to say that predictive > > astrology is > > > > our faith like religion (then you have to grab the astrologer who > > > > says that astrology is science). In that case I can at the most > > say > > > > that there is no predictive astrology in religion (which I have > > > > done). Then, if is up to you as to whether you are agree with my > > view > > > > or not. > > > > > > > > One point which I want to clear that this forum is exploring the > > > > science of astrology and not religious faith of astrology, or > > > > religion. As no religion says that religion or astrology is > > science, > > > > because field of religion is improvement in character of humans. > > So > > > > obviously it has nothing to do with science. But due to (1) > > business > > > > consideration (2) popularity of science (3) Immense faith on > > religion > > > > (4) weak self confidence (5) increasing struggle in life and so > > on; > > > > crocked astrologers are using media to pollute the mind of > > individual > > > > by mixing above points. Thus they use popularity of science, > > exploit > > > > faith on religion, publicize remedy in struggling society for > > their > > > > monetary gain. If you want then you can read my original books in > > > > Hindi and English on analysis of all predictive principles of > > > > astrology etc. > > > > > > > > So let us start with clean slate and intimate a little abt your > > self > > > > ie. Your age, date of birth, city, qualification, profession, > > hobby, > > > > family and so on. Then we will move with your any point in > > support of > > > > predictive astrology. I am not answering pointwise on your both > > msg > > > > of 8-4-08. If you want then you can again intimate your stand for > > my > > > > answer. > > > > > > > > Through out our discussion we have raised following points (I am > > also > > > > trying to upload the summery in file section. One file has been > > > > uploaded so far) so you may take any one or any new point or any > > > > point from my 1st msg. for further exchange of views and for the > > > > benefit of members. > > > > > > > > 1 – Tide by Moon > > > > 2 – Sun set or not > > > > 3 – Time of birth > > > > 4 – Vedang Jyotish > > > > 5 – Why astrology > > > > 6 – Longitude / Latitude in Vedic astrology. > > > > 7 – Nadi shastra > > > > > > > > Thanks and waiting for your valuable observations. > > > > > > > > Yours truly, > > > > sanat > > > > > > > > > > > > Members may please take part in interaction on any point and they > > are > > > > free to raise any point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " sureshbalaraman " > > > > sureshbalaraman@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > sanatji,i only quoted from BG to give you an example as to how > > moon > > > > > nourishes the plant lives,herbs,mind of humans,tides.You are > > more > > > > than > > > > > welcome not to agree with anybody elses translations,thats your > > > > > prerogative and right.Don't you think,i should also be extended > > the > > > > same > > > > > courtesy.I love srila prabhupadas translations-thats it. > > > > > > > > > > Western world is able to do research and make a logical > > > > presentation of > > > > > findings,which is reviewed and then only certified.Our Maha > > Rishis > > > > were > > > > > stalwarts in their own rights.As a matter of fact,some of the > > > > knowledge > > > > > has been transferred from the east and may i daresay,the > > maharishis > > > > > themselves are reincarnating and born as scientiscts here in > > the > > > > > west,so that eternal knowledge will continue forever as long as > > the > > > > sun > > > > > shines and moon shines on reflected light.Jab tak suraj chaand > > rahay > > > > > ga,sarva vidya jagat may rahay ga.OK goodnight i am feeling > > sleepy. > > > > > > > > > > SB. > > > > > > > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Res. SB Ji, > > > > > > No I have not replied like > > > > > > .>> " I enter each planet, and by my energy they stay in their > > > > orbits, I > > > > > > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all > > > > herbs " << > > > > > > It is your msg of 4-4-08, on which I have replied. (you may > > check > > > > as > > > > > > I always attach a portion of previous link). > > > > > > > > > > > > I also disagree with your following inference. > > > > > > " By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the > > moon > > > > > > rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon > > to > > > > > > earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya. " > > > > > > Because you yourself are drawing any inference which suit you > > in > > > > > > modern concept without looking in to the fact as to what was > > said > > > > in > > > > > > what context. In which Ved, Puran or Greek or Varahmihir etc. > > told > > > > > > and accepted that Moon get the light from the Sun and without > > Sun; > > > > > > Moon is zero. It is only your translation in view of modern > > > > > > knowledge. But it was not said any where. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes " vahana can mean a rath then and now a bmw " but you cant > > say > > > > that > > > > > > Krishna was moving on BMW. What I mean to say that if you do > > the > > > > > > translation of " Vahan " like BMW and try to infuse in the mind > > of > > > > > > general public that Krishna was traveling on BMW then what > > will > > > > > > happen. The same thing is happening with astrology. As no body > > > > try to > > > > > > look as to if you continue to join Krishna with BMW then you > > have > > > > to > > > > > > answer so many questions related to BMW, which will never > > > > available > > > > > > in Ved puran. Thus either you blame that I am not believing > > Ved or > > > > > > knowledge of sages etc or continue to support your stand with > > > > > > distorted translation, which is being done by almost all > > > > astrologers. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus if Brahmand was eternal then how we can conclude that > > tide is > > > > > > creation of Moon (do not apply present knowledge) from this > > view. > > > > > > Thus if in primitive time our sages have formulated some > > > > principles > > > > > > then you have to find and answer in the then perspective and > > then > > > > you > > > > > > have to check as to that contention was correct in view of > > modern > > > > > > knowledge or not. But you can not support primitive concept > > with > > > > > > modern interpretation or with modern knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus so far you are not able to answer your stand that high & > > low > > > > > > tides based on position of Moon from earth.Human body > > constitutes > > > > of > > > > > > fluids,so therefore there are subtle effects on the human > > body " > > > > and > > > > > > connection of inimical element of planet and sign. " > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Sanat > > > > > > 8-4-2008 > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Science of astrology -1 > > > > > > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman@ > > > > > > sureshbalaraman > > > > > > Sun Apr 6, 2008 2:56 pm (PDT) > > > > > > > > > > > > You have intelligently replied to your own query,sanatji.>> " I > > > > enter > > > > > > each > > > > > > planet, and by my energy they stay in their orbits, I > > > > > > become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all > > herbs " > > > > > > << > > > > > > > > > > > > By inference one may deduce.Plant life is dependant on the > > moon > > > > > > rays.Light from the sun gets reflected to moon and from moon > > to > > > > > > earth.With out sun ,moon is zero.zilch.shunya.What krishna > > says > > > > or at > > > > > > least visualised and interpreted to dritashtra,is said : > > > > everything is > > > > > > brahman.that brahman name is given as krishna.as he was the > > > > present > > > > > > avatar at that time.just like vahana can mean a rath then and > > now > > > > a > > > > > > bmw.therefore brahman existed then ,now,and future.all this > > futile > > > > > > contemplation is of no use to anybody.chant the gods name and > > > > obtain > > > > > > moksha,is what shankara says,let us do that.hara shankara jaya > > > > jaya > > > > > > shankara > > > > > > > > > > > > sb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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