Guest guest Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 Science of astrology – 1 Res. Suresh Ji, You may be right in first few lines that " The purpose of Jyotisha as Vedanga was to prepare the student of Veda and Upanishad in understanding the place of man in the Universe. " and last few lines that " The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a soothsayer business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction is 50 - 50 statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth sense thru yoga or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict consistently the future. " Now, I am talking about when Ved were being passed on through shrut gyan at that time 5 planets were not given that much importance as it was given to Sun and Moon, const. etc. and 5 elements were related to the planets as an initial stage for formulating astrological principles. Thus comedy of errors started (you are right), which have engulphed whole human civilization and lot of unilateral discussions are going on, without digging. Thus any prediction turns out to be true may be due to strong 6th sense (you are right). But from this how we can draw an inference that astrology (predictive ) is correct. Till now no dispute. Now I am not agree with your opinion that " our vedas mention that the sun never rises or sets " nor there was any mention that galaxy is lords chakram etc. Yes, we may take it on philosophical ground with our faith towards a particular religion. But I can give you many references where it was mentioned in the Ved that Sun rises and set. Even in Rigved mandal 1 sukt 164 slok 7 it was asked that who ever know about the birth of Sun may come forward to tell the mystery. Rigved mandal 1 sukt 50 slok 2 says that after sunrise all constellations hide themselves like thieves. Rigved mandal 1 sukt 50 slok 5 says that sun rises daily so that all living being may see him. Rigved mandal 1 sukt 191 slok 8 says that sun rises from the east and so on. Many more references can be quoted. Though we have diverted from our main point about the element of mercury and its enmity with the lordship of sign. But it seems you have given your opinion that it is comedy of errors. Yours truly, Sanat 5-4-2008 Re: Science of astrology -1 Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman sureshbalaraman Thu Apr 3, 2008 5:50 pm (PDT) Namastay Sanatji : Since you have brought messages from Hindu Calendar forum,i will try to answere in proper context. (1) The purpose of Jyotisha as Vedanga was to prepare the student of Veda and Upanishad in understanding the place of man in the Universe.That it has become some sort of tool to predict mundane life trials & tribulations is the wayward way life is going on.After studying economics in some of the best schools in the world,majority of nations economic advisors worldover are grossly stupid in managing their economies,and the economic woes of common man,is incresing exponentially.But yet we are concerned about jyotish vidya,which is being used out of context.(2) Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation TEXT 71 sraddhavan anasuyas ca srnuyad api yo narah so 'pi muktah subhal lokan prapnuyat punya-karmanam TRANSLATION And one who listens with faith and without envy becomes free from sinful reactions and attains to the planets where the pious dwell. http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html <http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html> (3)Astro-Logic;Sun-Aditya-Ravi Varam;Moon-Chandra-Soma Varam;Mars-Mangala-Mangala Varam;Mercury-Budhan-Budhan Varam;Jupiter-Guru-Guru Varam;Venus-Sukra-Sukra Varam;Saturn-Shanieswaran-Shanieswara Varam.Of the Navagrahas,seven of the above planets are included in our Panchangam.Rahu & Ketu have been allotted special timings so as to avoid doing important work.(3) Om Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu: May Peace & Happiness Prevail Amma has chosen some peace mantras for daily chanting by her devotees and disciples. One of those invocations is Om lokah samastah sukhino bhavantu. Although this mantra does not appear in any of the existent Veda sakhas [Vedic branches], it is an ex-pression of the universal spirit that we find therein1. Let's take a look at what context it appears in and what meaning it carries. The sloka as a whole reads as follows: svasti prajabhyam paripalayantham nyayeana margena mahim maheesah gobrahmanebhya shubamsthu nityam lokah samastha sukhino bhavanthu May there be well being to the people; May the kings(Presidents,Prime Ministers etc) rule the earth along the right path; May the cattle and the Brahmins have well being forever; May all the beings in all the worlds(seven in number) become happy; Peace, peace and peace be everywhere! http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php <http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php> (4) Sathapatha Brahmana 14.16: Katame Vasava iti. Agnischa prithivi cha vayusch-antarikshamchaadityascha dyouscha chandramascha nakshatrani chaite Vasava aeteshu hidam sarve vasu hitam aete hidam sarve vasayante taddyudidam sarve vasayante tasmad Vasava iti. The Sathapatha Brahmana gives the list of eight Vasu as (1) Agni (2) Prithvi (3) Vayu (4) Antariksha (5) Aditya (6) Dyou (7) Chandrama and (8) Nakshetra. Prima facie this may seem a bit contradictory as Aditya has also been mentioned separately but here it refers to the Sun, Chandra refers to the Moon, Nakshetra are the lunar mansions or the constellations and the remaining five represent the states of material existence. These eight form the primary source of enlightenment about the self. They represent the basic variables that define every creation and its original source of illumination in the ten methods defined earlier as the purpose of the deva. The Vishnu Purana makes this more lucid in the definition of the Vasu's as 1. Apa – Jala Tatwa or liquid 2. Dhara – Prithvi Tatwa or solid 3. Anila – Vayu Tatwa or Gas 4. Anala – Agni Tatwa or Energy 5. Dhruva – the pole star representing a. Akash Tatwa – the sky or Vacuum and b. fixity of the zodiac i.e. the relevance of Ayanamsa 6. Soma – The Moon 7. Pratyusha – the recurring dawn representing a. The Sun – as causing the night and day i.e. the source of light behind the dawn, b. Lagna – The ascendant or the point in the eastern horizon as representing the self and is equated to the dawn. 8. Prabhasa – splendorous lights of the stars that are grouped into 27/28 Nakshetra (Constellations). This list is the first principle of Jyotish where the bodies that create all beings as well as guide them through various activities are defined. These include (a) the Sun, (b) the Moon, © the constellations called Nakshetra and (d) the Pancha Tatwa or (the guidance/direction from) the five states of existence of all matter and energy. Thus, the luminaries (Sun & Moon), the five planets Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus & Saturn [ruling the five states of energy (Agni), solid (Prithvi), ether (Akash), liquid (Jala) and gas (Vayu) respectively] and the 27 (or 28) lunar mansion called Nakshetra form the first principle. Birth implies creation and this is the Satvic principle of sustenance of the born or created being. http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt-sanjay-rath.html <http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt-sanjay- rath.html> As a philosopher,our vedas mention that " the sun never rises or sets " that is the actual truth.We have taken arbitary points for mathematical purposes,constructed the measurement of time known as per the perception of humanity,as per evolution over milleniums.In fact the milky way,is only a " chakram " of the lord which he happens to hold in one of his fingers,when one can visualise in cosmic contemplation,the " swayam rupam " when you pray to see the form. The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a soothsayer business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction is 50 - 50 statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth sense thru yoga or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict consistently the future. Suresh Balaraman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 Sanatji,do jains believe in vedas? sb , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > Science of astrology – 1 > Res. Suresh Ji, > You may be right in first few lines that " The purpose of Jyotisha as > Vedanga was to prepare the student of Veda and Upanishad in > understanding the place of man in the Universe. " and last few lines > that " The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of > vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a soothsayer > business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction is 50 - > 50 > statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth sense thru > yoga > or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict > consistently > the future. " > > Now, I am talking about when Ved were being passed on through shrut > gyan at that time 5 planets were not given that much importance as > it was given to Sun and Moon, const. etc. and 5 elements were related > to the planets as an initial stage for formulating astrological > principles. Thus comedy of errors started (you are right), which have > engulphed whole human civilization and lot of unilateral discussions > are going on, without digging. Thus any prediction turns out to be > true may be due to strong 6th sense (you are right). But from this > how we can draw an inference that astrology (predictive ) is correct. > > Till now no dispute. > Now I am not agree with your opinion that " our vedas mention that the > sun never rises or sets " nor there was any mention that galaxy is > lords chakram etc. Yes, we may take it on philosophical ground with > our faith towards a particular religion. But I can give you many > references where it was mentioned in the Ved that Sun rises and set. > Even in Rigved mandal 1 sukt 164 slok 7 it was asked that who ever > know about the birth of Sun may come forward to tell the mystery. > Rigved mandal 1 sukt 50 slok 2 says that after sunrise all > constellations hide themselves like thieves. Rigved mandal 1 sukt > 50 slok 5 says that sun rises daily so that all living being may see > him. Rigved mandal 1 sukt 191 slok 8 says that sun rises from the > east and so on. Many more references can be quoted. Though we have > diverted from our main point about the element of mercury and its > enmity with the lordship of sign. > > But it seems you have given your opinion that it is comedy of errors. > Yours truly, > Sanat > 5-4-2008 > > Re: Science of astrology -1 > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman > sureshbalaraman > Thu Apr 3, 2008 5:50 pm (PDT) > > Namastay Sanatji : > > Since you have brought messages from Hindu Calendar forum,i will try > to > answere in proper context. > > (1) > > The purpose of Jyotisha as Vedanga was to prepare the student of Veda > and Upanishad in understanding the place of man in the Universe.That > it > has become some sort of tool to predict mundane life trials & > tribulations is the wayward way life is going on.After studying > economics in some of the best schools in the world,majority of nations > economic advisors worldover are grossly stupid in managing their > economies,and the economic woes of common man,is incresing > exponentially.But yet we are concerned about jyotish vidya,which is > being used out of context.(2) > > Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation > > TEXT 71 > > sraddhavan anasuyas ca > srnuyad api yo narah > so 'pi muktah subhal lokan > prapnuyat punya-karmanam > > TRANSLATION > > And one who listens with faith and without envy becomes free from > sinful > reactions and attains to the planets where the pious dwell. > > http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html <http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html> > (3)Astro-Logic;Sun-Aditya-Ravi Varam;Moon-Chandra-Soma > Varam;Mars-Mangala-Mangala Varam;Mercury-Budhan-Budhan > Varam;Jupiter-Guru-Guru Varam;Venus-Sukra-Sukra > Varam;Saturn-Shanieswaran-Shanieswara Varam.Of the Navagrahas,seven of > the above planets are included in our Panchangam.Rahu & Ketu have been > allotted special timings so as to avoid doing important work.(3) > > Om Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu: > May Peace & Happiness Prevail > > Amma has chosen some peace mantras for daily chanting by her devotees > and disciples. One of those invocations is Om lokah samastah sukhino > bhavantu. Although this mantra does not appear in any of the existent > Veda sakhas [Vedic branches], it is an ex-pression of the universal > spirit that we find therein1. Let's take a look at what context it > appears in and what meaning it carries. The sloka as a whole reads as > follows: > > svasti prajabhyam paripalayantham nyayeana margena mahim maheesah > gobrahmanebhya shubamsthu nityam lokah samastha sukhino bhavanthu > > May there be well being to the people; > May the kings(Presidents,Prime Ministers etc) rule the earth along the > right path; > May the cattle and the Brahmins have well being forever; > May all the beings in all the worlds(seven in number) become happy; > Peace, peace and peace be everywhere! > > http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php > <http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php> > > (4) > > Sathapatha Brahmana 14.16: > Katame Vasava iti. Agnischa prithivi cha > vayusch-antarikshamchaadityascha dyouscha chandramascha nakshatrani > chaite Vasava aeteshu hidam sarve vasu hitam aete hidam sarve > vasayante > taddyudidam sarve vasayante tasmad Vasava iti. > > The Sathapatha Brahmana gives the list of eight Vasu as (1) Agni (2) > Prithvi (3) Vayu (4) Antariksha (5) Aditya (6) Dyou (7) Chandrama and > (8) Nakshetra. Prima facie this may seem a bit contradictory as Aditya > has also been mentioned separately but here it refers to the Sun, > Chandra refers to the Moon, Nakshetra are the lunar mansions or the > constellations and the remaining five represent the states of material > existence. These eight form the primary source of enlightenment about > the self. They represent the basic variables that define every > creation > and its original source of illumination in the ten methods defined > earlier as the purpose of the deva. The Vishnu Purana makes this more > lucid in the definition of the Vasu's as > > 1. Apa – Jala Tatwa or liquid > 2. Dhara – Prithvi Tatwa or solid > 3. Anila – Vayu Tatwa or Gas > 4. Anala – Agni Tatwa or Energy > 5. Dhruva – the pole star representing > a. Akash Tatwa – the sky or Vacuum and > b. fixity of the zodiac i.e. the relevance of Ayanamsa > 6. Soma – The Moon > 7. Pratyusha – the recurring dawn representing > a. The Sun – as causing the night and day i.e. the source > of light behind the dawn, > b. Lagna – The ascendant or the point in the eastern > horizon as representing the self and is equated to the dawn. > 8. Prabhasa – splendorous lights of the stars that are grouped > into 27/28 Nakshetra (Constellations). > > This list is the first principle of Jyotish where the bodies that > create > all beings as well as guide them through various activities are > defined. > These include (a) the Sun, (b) the Moon, © the constellations called > Nakshetra and (d) the Pancha Tatwa or (the guidance/direction from) > the > five states of existence of all matter and energy. Thus, the > luminaries > (Sun & Moon), the five planets Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus & Saturn > [ruling the five states of energy (Agni), solid (Prithvi), ether > (Akash), liquid (Jala) and gas (Vayu) respectively] and the 27 (or 28) > lunar mansion called Nakshetra form the first principle. Birth implies > creation and this is the Satvic principle of sustenance of the born or > created being. > > http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt-sanjay-rath.html > <http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt-sanjay- > rath.html> > > As a philosopher,our vedas mention that " the sun never rises or sets " > that is the actual truth.We have taken arbitary points for > mathematical > purposes,constructed the measurement of time known as per the > perception > of humanity,as per evolution over milleniums.In fact the milky way,is > only a " chakram " of the lord which he happens to hold in one of his > fingers,when one can visualise in cosmic contemplation,the " swayam > rupam " when you pray to see the form. > > The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of > vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a soothsayer > business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction is 50 - > 50 > statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth sense thru > yoga > or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict > consistently > the future. > > Suresh Balaraman. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 In astronomical text Shatapatha Brahmana, : "The sun is stationed for all time, in the middle of the day. [...] Of the sun, which is always in one and the same place, there is neither setting nor rising." The Aitareya Brahmana (2.7) (c. 9th–8th century BC) also states: "The Sun never sets nor rises. When people think the sun is setting, it is not so; they are mistaken. It only changes about after reaching the end of the day and makes night below and day to what is on the other side.Suresh Balaraman. , "sanat2221" <sanatkumar_jain wrote:>> Science of astrology – 1> Res. Suresh Ji,> You may be right in first few lines that "The purpose of Jyotisha as > Vedanga was to prepare the student of Veda and Upanishad in > understanding the place of man in the Universe." and last few lines > that "The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of > vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a soothsayer> business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction is 50 - > 50> statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth sense thru > yoga> or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict > consistently> the future."> > Now, I am talking about when Ved were being passed on through shrut > gyan at that time 5 planets were not given that much importance as > it was given to Sun and Moon, const. etc. and 5 elements were related > to the planets as an initial stage for formulating astrological > principles. Thus comedy of errors started (you are right), which have > engulphed whole human civilization and lot of unilateral discussions > are going on, without digging. Thus any prediction turns out to be > true may be due to strong 6th sense (you are right). But from this > how we can draw an inference that astrology (predictive ) is correct. > > Till now no dispute.> Now I am not agree with your opinion that "our vedas mention that the > sun never rises or sets" nor there was any mention that galaxy is > lords chakram etc. Yes, we may take it on philosophical ground with > our faith towards a particular religion. But I can give you many > references where it was mentioned in the Ved that Sun rises and set. > Even in Rigved mandal 1 sukt 164 slok 7 it was asked that who ever > know about the birth of Sun may come forward to tell the mystery. > Rigved mandal 1 sukt 50 slok 2 says that after sunrise all > constellations hide themselves like thieves. Rigved mandal 1 sukt > 50 slok 5 says that sun rises daily so that all living being may see > him. Rigved mandal 1 sukt 191 slok 8 says that sun rises from the > east and so on. Many more references can be quoted. Though we have > diverted from our main point about the element of mercury and its > enmity with the lordship of sign.> > But it seems you have given your opinion that it is comedy of errors.> Yours truly,> Sanat> 5-4-2008> > Re: Science of astrology -1 > Posted by: "sureshbalaraman" sureshbalaraman > sureshbalaraman > Thu Apr 3, 2008 5:50 pm (PDT) > > Namastay Sanatji :> > Since you have brought messages from Hindu Calendar forum,i will try > to> answere in proper context.> > (1)> > The purpose of Jyotisha as Vedanga was to prepare the student of Veda> and Upanishad in understanding the place of man in the Universe.That > it> has become some sort of tool to predict mundane life trials & > tribulations is the wayward way life is going on.After studying> economics in some of the best schools in the world,majority of nations> economic advisors worldover are grossly stupid in managing their> economies,and the economic woes of common man,is incresing> exponentially.But yet we are concerned about jyotish vidya,which is> being used out of context.(2)> > Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation> > TEXT 71> > sraddhavan anasuyas ca> srnuyad api yo narah> so 'pi muktah subhal lokan> prapnuyat punya-karmanam> > TRANSLATION> > And one who listens with faith and without envy becomes free from > sinful> reactions and attains to the planets where the pious dwell.> > http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html <http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html> > (3)Astro-Logic;Sun-Aditya-Ravi Varam;Moon-Chandra-Soma> Varam;Mars-Mangala-Mangala Varam;Mercury-Budhan-Budhan> Varam;Jupiter-Guru-Guru Varam;Venus-Sukra-Sukra> Varam;Saturn-Shanieswaran-Shanieswara Varam.Of the Navagrahas,seven of> the above planets are included in our Panchangam.Rahu & Ketu have been> allotted special timings so as to avoid doing important work.(3)> > Om Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu:> May Peace & Happiness Prevail> > Amma has chosen some peace mantras for daily chanting by her devotees> and disciples. One of those invocations is Om lokah samastah sukhino> bhavantu. Although this mantra does not appear in any of the existent> Veda sakhas [Vedic branches], it is an ex-pression of the universal> spirit that we find therein1. Let's take a look at what context it> appears in and what meaning it carries. The sloka as a whole reads as> follows:> > svasti prajabhyam paripalayantham nyayeana margena mahim maheesah> gobrahmanebhya shubamsthu nityam lokah samastha sukhino bhavanthu> > May there be well being to the people;> May the kings(Presidents,Prime Ministers etc) rule the earth along the> right path;> May the cattle and the Brahmins have well being forever;> May all the beings in all the worlds(seven in number) become happy;> Peace, peace and peace be everywhere!> > http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php> <http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php>> > (4)> > Sathapatha Brahmana 14.16:> Katame Vasava iti. Agnischa prithivi cha> vayusch-antarikshamchaadityascha dyouscha chandramascha nakshatrani> chaite Vasava aeteshu hidam sarve vasu hitam aete hidam sarve > vasayante> taddyudidam sarve vasayante tasmad Vasava iti.> > The Sathapatha Brahmana gives the list of eight Vasu as (1) Agni (2)> Prithvi (3) Vayu (4) Antariksha (5) Aditya (6) Dyou (7) Chandrama and> (8) Nakshetra. Prima facie this may seem a bit contradictory as Aditya> has also been mentioned separately but here it refers to the Sun,> Chandra refers to the Moon, Nakshetra are the lunar mansions or the> constellations and the remaining five represent the states of material> existence. These eight form the primary source of enlightenment about> the self. They represent the basic variables that define every > creation> and its original source of illumination in the ten methods defined> earlier as the purpose of the deva. The Vishnu Purana makes this more> lucid in the definition of the Vasu's as> > 1. Apa – Jala Tatwa or liquid> 2. Dhara – Prithvi Tatwa or solid> 3. Anila – Vayu Tatwa or Gas> 4. Anala – Agni Tatwa or Energy> 5. Dhruva – the pole star representing> a. Akash Tatwa – the sky or Vacuum and> b. fixity of the zodiac i.e. the relevance of Ayanamsa> 6. Soma – The Moon> 7. Pratyusha – the recurring dawn representing> a. The Sun – as causing the night and day i.e. the source> of light behind the dawn,> b. Lagna – The ascendant or the point in the eastern> horizon as representing the self and is equated to the dawn.> 8. Prabhasa – splendorous lights of the stars that are grouped> into 27/28 Nakshetra (Constellations).> > This list is the first principle of Jyotish where the bodies that > create> all beings as well as guide them through various activities are > defined.> These include (a) the Sun, (b) the Moon, © the constellations called> Nakshetra and (d) the Pancha Tatwa or (the guidance/direction from) > the> five states of existence of all matter and energy. Thus, the > luminaries> (Sun & Moon), the five planets Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus & Saturn> [ruling the five states of energy (Agni), solid (Prithvi), ether> (Akash), liquid (Jala) and gas (Vayu) respectively] and the 27 (or 28)> lunar mansion called Nakshetra form the first principle. Birth implies> creation and this is the Satvic principle of sustenance of the born or> created being.> > http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt-sanjay-rath.html> <http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt-sanjay-> rath.html>> > As a philosopher,our vedas mention that"the sun never rises or sets"> that is the actual truth.We have taken arbitary points for > mathematical> purposes,constructed the measurement of time known as per the > perception> of humanity,as per evolution over milleniums.In fact the milky way,is> only a " chakram" of the lord which he happens to hold in one of his> fingers,when one can visualise in cosmic contemplation,the "swayam> rupam" when you pray to see the form.> > The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of> vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a soothsayer> business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction is 50 - > 50> statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth sense thru > yoga> or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict > consistently> the future.> > Suresh Balaraman.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 I tend to agree with what has been written on the subject of astrology in this forum. The chances of a prediction coming true is 50 - 50%. If the predictions are cent percent accurate then it means that there is no free will in this world and everything is pre- destined. Although, it may be a little pre-mature to talk about Nadi Sashtra, I would request members to provide their thoughts and experiences on the same so that a comparison can be drawn between the two. Bala , " sureshbalaraman " <sureshbalaraman wrote: > > > In astronomical text Shatapatha Brahmana > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatapatha_Brahmana> , : > > " The sun is stationed for all time, in the middle of the day. [...] Of > he sun, which is always in one and the same place, there is neither > setting nor rising. " > > > > The Aitareya Brahmana <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aitareya_Brahmana> > (2.7) (c. 9th–8th century BC) also states: > > " The Sun never sets nor rises. When people think the sun is setting, it > is not so; they are mistaken. It only changes about after reaching the > end of the day and makes night below and day to what is on the other > side. > > > > > > Suresh Balaraman. > > > , " sanat2221 " > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > Science of astrology – 1 > > Res. Suresh Ji, > > You may be right in first few lines that " The purpose of Jyotisha as > > Vedanga was to prepare the student of Veda and Upanishad in > > understanding the place of man in the Universe. " and last few lines > > that " The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of > > vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a soothsayer > > business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction is 50 - > > 50 > > statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth sense thru > > yoga > > or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict > > consistently > > the future. " > > > > Now, I am talking about when Ved were being passed on through shrut > > gyan at that time 5 planets were not given that much importance as > > it was given to Sun and Moon, const. etc. and 5 elements were related > > to the planets as an initial stage for formulating astrological > > principles. Thus comedy of errors started (you are right), which have > > engulphed whole human civilization and lot of unilateral discussions > > are going on, without digging. Thus any prediction turns out to be > > true may be due to strong 6th sense (you are right). But from this > > how we can draw an inference that astrology (predictive ) is correct. > > > > Till now no dispute. > > Now I am not agree with your opinion that " our vedas mention that the > > sun never rises or sets " nor there was any mention that galaxy is > > lords chakram etc. Yes, we may take it on philosophical ground with > > our faith towards a particular religion. But I can give you many > > references where it was mentioned in the Ved that Sun rises and set. > > Even in Rigved mandal 1 sukt 164 slok 7 it was asked that who ever > > know about the birth of Sun may come forward to tell the mystery. > > Rigved mandal 1 sukt 50 slok 2 says that after sunrise all > > constellations hide themselves like thieves. Rigved mandal 1 sukt > > 50 slok 5 says that sun rises daily so that all living being may see > > him. Rigved mandal 1 sukt 191 slok 8 says that sun rises from the > > east and so on. Many more references can be quoted. Though we have > > diverted from our main point about the element of mercury and its > > enmity with the lordship of sign. > > > > But it seems you have given your opinion that it is comedy of errors. > > Yours truly, > > Sanat > > 5-4-2008 > > > > Re: Science of astrology -1 > > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman@ > > sureshbalaraman > > Thu Apr 3, 2008 5:50 pm (PDT) > > > > Namastay Sanatji : > > > > Since you have brought messages from Hindu Calendar forum,i will try > > to > > answere in proper context. > > > > (1) > > > > The purpose of Jyotisha as Vedanga was to prepare the student of Veda > > and Upanishad in understanding the place of man in the Universe.That > > it > > has become some sort of tool to predict mundane life trials & > > tribulations is the wayward way life is going on.After studying > > economics in some of the best schools in the world,majority of nations > > economic advisors worldover are grossly stupid in managing their > > economies,and the economic woes of common man,is incresing > > exponentially.But yet we are concerned about jyotish vidya,which is > > being used out of context.(2) > > > > Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation > > > > TEXT 71 > > > > sraddhavan anasuyas ca > > srnuyad api yo narah > > so 'pi muktah subhal lokan > > prapnuyat punya-karmanam > > > > TRANSLATION > > > > And one who listens with faith and without envy becomes free from > > sinful > > reactions and attains to the planets where the pious dwell. > > > > http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html <http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html> > > (3)Astro-Logic;Sun-Aditya-Ravi Varam;Moon-Chandra-Soma > > Varam;Mars-Mangala-Mangala Varam;Mercury-Budhan-Budhan > > Varam;Jupiter-Guru-Guru Varam;Venus-Sukra-Sukra > > Varam;Saturn-Shanieswaran-Shanieswara Varam.Of the Navagrahas,seven of > > the above planets are included in our Panchangam.Rahu & Ketu have been > > allotted special timings so as to avoid doing important work.(3) > > > > Om Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu: > > May Peace & Happiness Prevail > > > > Amma has chosen some peace mantras for daily chanting by her devotees > > and disciples. One of those invocations is Om lokah samastah sukhino > > bhavantu. Although this mantra does not appear in any of the existent > > Veda sakhas [Vedic branches], it is an ex-pression of the universal > > spirit that we find therein1. Let's take a look at what context it > > appears in and what meaning it carries. The sloka as a whole reads as > > follows: > > > > svasti prajabhyam paripalayantham nyayeana margena mahim maheesah > > gobrahmanebhya shubamsthu nityam lokah samastha sukhino bhavanthu > > > > May there be well being to the people; > > May the kings(Presidents,Prime Ministers etc) rule the earth along the > > right path; > > May the cattle and the Brahmins have well being forever; > > May all the beings in all the worlds(seven in number) become happy; > > Peace, peace and peace be everywhere! > > > > http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php > > <http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php> > > > > (4) > > > > Sathapatha Brahmana 14.16: > > Katame Vasava iti. Agnischa prithivi cha > > vayusch-antarikshamchaadityascha dyouscha chandramascha nakshatrani > > chaite Vasava aeteshu hidam sarve vasu hitam aete hidam sarve > > vasayante > > taddyudidam sarve vasayante tasmad Vasava iti. > > > > The Sathapatha Brahmana gives the list of eight Vasu as (1) Agni (2) > > Prithvi (3) Vayu (4) Antariksha (5) Aditya (6) Dyou (7) Chandrama and > > (8) Nakshetra. Prima facie this may seem a bit contradictory as Aditya > > has also been mentioned separately but here it refers to the Sun, > > Chandra refers to the Moon, Nakshetra are the lunar mansions or the > > constellations and the remaining five represent the states of material > > existence. These eight form the primary source of enlightenment about > > the self. They represent the basic variables that define every > > creation > > and its original source of illumination in the ten methods defined > > earlier as the purpose of the deva. The Vishnu Purana makes this more > > lucid in the definition of the Vasu's as > > > > 1. Apa – Jala Tatwa or liquid > > 2. Dhara – Prithvi Tatwa or solid > > 3. Anila – Vayu Tatwa or Gas > > 4. Anala – Agni Tatwa or Energy > > 5. Dhruva – the pole star representing > > a. Akash Tatwa – the sky or Vacuum and > > b. fixity of the zodiac i.e. the relevance of Ayanamsa > > 6. Soma – The Moon > > 7. Pratyusha – the recurring dawn representing > > a. The Sun – as causing the night and day i.e. the source > > of light behind the dawn, > > b. Lagna – The ascendant or the point in the eastern > > horizon as representing the self and is equated to the dawn. > > 8. Prabhasa – splendorous lights of the stars that are grouped > > into 27/28 Nakshetra (Constellations). > > > > This list is the first principle of Jyotish where the bodies that > > create > > all beings as well as guide them through various activities are > > defined. > > These include (a) the Sun, (b) the Moon, © the constellations called > > Nakshetra and (d) the Pancha Tatwa or (the guidance/direction from) > > the > > five states of existence of all matter and energy. Thus, the > > luminaries > > (Sun & Moon), the five planets Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus & Saturn > > [ruling the five states of energy (Agni), solid (Prithvi), ether > > (Akash), liquid (Jala) and gas (Vayu) respectively] and the 27 (or 28) > > lunar mansion called Nakshetra form the first principle. Birth implies > > creation and this is the Satvic principle of sustenance of the born or > > created being. > > > > http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt-sanjay- rath.html > > <http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt-sanjay- > > rath.html> > > > > As a philosopher,our vedas mention that " the sun never rises or sets " > > that is the actual truth.We have taken arbitary points for > > mathematical > > purposes,constructed the measurement of time known as per the > > perception > > of humanity,as per evolution over milleniums.In fact the milky way,is > > only a " chakram " of the lord which he happens to hold in one of his > > fingers,when one can visualise in cosmic contemplation,the " swayam > > rupam " when you pray to see the form. > > > > The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of > > vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a soothsayer > > business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction is 50 - > > 50 > > statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth sense thru > > yoga > > or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict > > consistently > > the future. > > > > Suresh Balaraman. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 Bala, You are right about Nadi jyotisham.Difficult for me to figure it out.But of late,i am begginning to feel,somehow they are too not above boards.Ultimately its a means of making a living for these astrologers,unlike what it was originally meant for.That is why Brahmanas were so straight forward,money,lucre,status,power etc all these higly material benfits did not have a sway for them because the Kings ensured that,the brahmana community would never ever have to resort to think of earning a living.Therefore all the time learning,observing,chanting,yagyas etc were the key foundation for the upliftment of humanity at that time(5000 years back). Suresh Balaraman. , " balas_9999 " <balas_9999 wrote: > > > I tend to agree with what has been written on the subject of > astrology in this forum. The chances of a prediction coming true is > 50 - 50%. If the predictions are cent percent accurate then it means > that there is no free will in this world and everything is pre- > destined. > > Although, it may be a little pre-mature to talk about Nadi Sashtra, > I would request members to provide their thoughts and experiences on > the same so that a comparison can be drawn between the two. > > Bala > > > > > > , " sureshbalaraman " > sureshbalaraman@ wrote: > > > > > > In astronomical text Shatapatha Brahmana > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatapatha_Brahmana> , : > > > > " The sun is stationed for all time, in the middle of the day. > [...] Of > > he sun, which is always in one and the same place, there is neither > > setting nor rising. " > > > > > > > > The Aitareya Brahmana > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aitareya_Brahmana> > > (2.7) (c. 9th–8th century BC) also states: > > > > " The Sun never sets nor rises. When people think the sun is > setting, it > > is not so; they are mistaken. It only changes about after reaching > the > > end of the day and makes night below and day to what is on the > other > > side. > > > > > > > > > > > > Suresh Balaraman. > > > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > Science of astrology – 1 > > > Res. Suresh Ji, > > > You may be right in first few lines that " The purpose of > Jyotisha as > > > Vedanga was to prepare the student of Veda and Upanishad in > > > understanding the place of man in the Universe. " and last few > lines > > > that " The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of > > > vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a > soothsayer > > > business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction is > 50 - > > > 50 > > > statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth sense > thru > > > yoga > > > or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict > > > consistently > > > the future. " > > > > > > Now, I am talking about when Ved were being passed on through > shrut > > > gyan at that time 5 planets were not given that much importance > as > > > it was given to Sun and Moon, const. etc. and 5 elements were > related > > > to the planets as an initial stage for formulating astrological > > > principles. Thus comedy of errors started (you are right), which > have > > > engulphed whole human civilization and lot of unilateral > discussions > > > are going on, without digging. Thus any prediction turns out to > be > > > true may be due to strong 6th sense (you are right). But from > this > > > how we can draw an inference that astrology (predictive ) is > correct. > > > > > > Till now no dispute. > > > Now I am not agree with your opinion that " our vedas mention > that the > > > sun never rises or sets " nor there was any mention that galaxy is > > > lords chakram etc. Yes, we may take it on philosophical ground > with > > > our faith towards a particular religion. But I can give you many > > > references where it was mentioned in the Ved that Sun rises and > set. > > > Even in Rigved mandal 1 sukt 164 slok 7 it was asked that who > ever > > > know about the birth of Sun may come forward to tell the mystery. > > > Rigved mandal 1 sukt 50 slok 2 says that after sunrise all > > > constellations hide themselves like thieves. Rigved mandal 1 sukt > > > 50 slok 5 says that sun rises daily so that all living being > may see > > > him. Rigved mandal 1 sukt 191 slok 8 says that sun rises from > the > > > east and so on. Many more references can be quoted. Though we > have > > > diverted from our main point about the element of mercury and its > > > enmity with the lordship of sign. > > > > > > But it seems you have given your opinion that it is comedy of > errors. > > > Yours truly, > > > Sanat > > > 5-4-2008 > > > > > > Re: Science of astrology -1 > > > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman@ > > > sureshbalaraman > > > Thu Apr 3, 2008 5:50 pm (PDT) > > > > > > Namastay Sanatji : > > > > > > Since you have brought messages from Hindu Calendar forum,i will > try > > > to > > > answere in proper context. > > > > > > (1) > > > > > > The purpose of Jyotisha as Vedanga was to prepare the student of > Veda > > > and Upanishad in understanding the place of man in the > Universe.That > > > it > > > has become some sort of tool to predict mundane life trials & > > > tribulations is the wayward way life is going on.After studying > > > economics in some of the best schools in the world,majority of > nations > > > economic advisors worldover are grossly stupid in managing their > > > economies,and the economic woes of common man,is incresing > > > exponentially.But yet we are concerned about jyotish vidya,which > is > > > being used out of context.(2) > > > > > > Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation > > > > > > TEXT 71 > > > > > > sraddhavan anasuyas ca > > > srnuyad api yo narah > > > so 'pi muktah subhal lokan > > > prapnuyat punya-karmanam > > > > > > TRANSLATION > > > > > > And one who listens with faith and without envy becomes free from > > > sinful > > > reactions and attains to the planets where the pious dwell. > > > > > > http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html > <http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html> > > > (3)Astro-Logic;Sun-Aditya-Ravi Varam;Moon-Chandra-Soma > > > Varam;Mars-Mangala-Mangala Varam;Mercury-Budhan-Budhan > > > Varam;Jupiter-Guru-Guru Varam;Venus-Sukra-Sukra > > > Varam;Saturn-Shanieswaran-Shanieswara Varam.Of the > Navagrahas,seven of > > > the above planets are included in our Panchangam.Rahu & Ketu > have been > > > allotted special timings so as to avoid doing important work.(3) > > > > > > Om Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu: > > > May Peace & Happiness Prevail > > > > > > Amma has chosen some peace mantras for daily chanting by her > devotees > > > and disciples. One of those invocations is Om lokah samastah > sukhino > > > bhavantu. Although this mantra does not appear in any of the > existent > > > Veda sakhas [Vedic branches], it is an ex-pression of the > universal > > > spirit that we find therein1. Let's take a look at what context > it > > > appears in and what meaning it carries. The sloka as a whole > reads as > > > follows: > > > > > > svasti prajabhyam paripalayantham nyayeana margena mahim maheesah > > > gobrahmanebhya shubamsthu nityam lokah samastha sukhino bhavanthu > > > > > > May there be well being to the people; > > > May the kings(Presidents,Prime Ministers etc) rule the earth > along the > > > right path; > > > May the cattle and the Brahmins have well being forever; > > > May all the beings in all the worlds(seven in number) become > happy; > > > Peace, peace and peace be everywhere! > > > > > > http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php > > > <http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php> > > > > > > (4) > > > > > > Sathapatha Brahmana 14.16: > > > Katame Vasava iti. Agnischa prithivi cha > > > vayusch-antarikshamchaadityascha dyouscha chandramascha > nakshatrani > > > chaite Vasava aeteshu hidam sarve vasu hitam aete hidam sarve > > > vasayante > > > taddyudidam sarve vasayante tasmad Vasava iti. > > > > > > The Sathapatha Brahmana gives the list of eight Vasu as (1) Agni > (2) > > > Prithvi (3) Vayu (4) Antariksha (5) Aditya (6) Dyou (7) > Chandrama and > > > (8) Nakshetra. Prima facie this may seem a bit contradictory as > Aditya > > > has also been mentioned separately but here it refers to the Sun, > > > Chandra refers to the Moon, Nakshetra are the lunar mansions or > the > > > constellations and the remaining five represent the states of > material > > > existence. These eight form the primary source of enlightenment > about > > > the self. They represent the basic variables that define every > > > creation > > > and its original source of illumination in the ten methods > defined > > > earlier as the purpose of the deva. The Vishnu Purana makes this > more > > > lucid in the definition of the Vasu's as > > > > > > 1. Apa – Jala Tatwa or liquid > > > 2. Dhara – Prithvi Tatwa or solid > > > 3. Anila – Vayu Tatwa or Gas > > > 4. Anala – Agni Tatwa or Energy > > > 5. Dhruva – the pole star representing > > > a. Akash Tatwa – the sky or Vacuum and > > > b. fixity of the zodiac i.e. the relevance of Ayanamsa > > > 6. Soma – The Moon > > > 7. Pratyusha – the recurring dawn representing > > > a. The Sun – as causing the night and day i.e. the source > > > of light behind the dawn, > > > b. Lagna – The ascendant or the point in the eastern > > > horizon as representing the self and is equated to the dawn. > > > 8. Prabhasa – splendorous lights of the stars that are grouped > > > into 27/28 Nakshetra (Constellations). > > > > > > This list is the first principle of Jyotish where the bodies that > > > create > > > all beings as well as guide them through various activities are > > > defined. > > > These include (a) the Sun, (b) the Moon, © the constellations > called > > > Nakshetra and (d) the Pancha Tatwa or (the guidance/direction > from) > > > the > > > five states of existence of all matter and energy. Thus, the > > > luminaries > > > (Sun & Moon), the five planets Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus & > Saturn > > > [ruling the five states of energy (Agni), solid (Prithvi), ether > > > (Akash), liquid (Jala) and gas (Vayu) respectively] and the 27 > (or 28) > > > lunar mansion called Nakshetra form the first principle. Birth > implies > > > creation and this is the Satvic principle of sustenance of the > born or > > > created being. > > > > > > http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt-sanjay- > rath.html > > > <http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt-sanjay- > > > rath.html> > > > > > > As a philosopher,our vedas mention that " the sun never rises or > sets " > > > that is the actual truth.We have taken arbitary points for > > > mathematical > > > purposes,constructed the measurement of time known as per the > > > perception > > > of humanity,as per evolution over milleniums.In fact the milky > way,is > > > only a " chakram " of the lord which he happens to hold in one of > his > > > fingers,when one can visualise in cosmic > contemplation,the " swayam > > > rupam " when you pray to see the form. > > > > > > The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of > > > vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a > soothsayer > > > business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction is > 50 - > > > 50 > > > statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth sense > thru > > > yoga > > > or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict > > > consistently > > > the future. > > > > > > Suresh Balaraman. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 Suresh - Thanks for your comments on Nadi Jyotisham. I would like to share another interesting incident with the members. Till about a couple of hours back I was under the impression that a slight change in the birth timings can result in a totally different Kundali. But using one of the online sites, I first modified my birth timings +-15 to 10 minutes and did not find any change in Lagna, Rashi, Nakshtra, Planets in Houses, etc. Then I added one day (+1 day) to my birth date. Yet the horoscope casting was exactly the same as the original. I am not an astrologer but find it difficult to accept that a full one day has not made any changes to the horoscope. Does it mean that all the children taking birth during the period of 24 hours or more in the same birth place will have the same destiny / fate / future or whatever we may call it? Kindly excuse me if I am getting wrong results due to some error from my side. Bala , " sureshbalaraman " <sureshbalaraman wrote: > > Bala, > > You are right about Nadi jyotisham.Difficult for me to figure it out.But > of late,i am begginning to feel,somehow they are too not above > boards.Ultimately its a means of making a living for these > astrologers,unlike what it was originally meant for.That is why > Brahmanas were so straight forward,money,lucre,status,power etc all > these higly material benfits did not have a sway for them because the > Kings ensured that,the brahmana community would never ever have to > resort to think of earning a living.Therefore all the time > learning,observing,chanting,yagyas etc were the key foundation for the > upliftment of humanity at that time(5000 years back). > > Suresh Balaraman. > > , " balas_9999 " <balas_9999@> > wrote: > > > > > > I tend to agree with what has been written on the subject of > > astrology in this forum. The chances of a prediction coming true is > > 50 - 50%. If the predictions are cent percent accurate then it means > > that there is no free will in this world and everything is pre- > > destined. > > > > Although, it may be a little pre-mature to talk about Nadi Sashtra, > > I would request members to provide their thoughts and experiences on > > the same so that a comparison can be drawn between the two. > > > > Bala > > > > > > > > > > > > , " sureshbalaraman " > > sureshbalaraman@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > In astronomical text Shatapatha Brahmana > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatapatha_Brahmana> , : > > > > > > " The sun is stationed for all time, in the middle of the day. > > [...] Of > > > he sun, which is always in one and the same place, there is neither > > > setting nor rising. " > > > > > > > > > > > > The Aitareya Brahmana > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aitareya_Brahmana> > > > (2.7) (c. 9th–8th century BC) also states: > > > > > > " The Sun never sets nor rises. When people think the sun is > > setting, it > > > is not so; they are mistaken. It only changes about after reaching > > the > > > end of the day and makes night below and day to what is on the > > other > > > side. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suresh Balaraman. > > > > > > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Science of astrology – 1 > > > > Res. Suresh Ji, > > > > You may be right in first few lines that " The purpose of > > Jyotisha as > > > > Vedanga was to prepare the student of Veda and Upanishad in > > > > understanding the place of man in the Universe. " and last few > > lines > > > > that " The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of > > > > vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a > > soothsayer > > > > business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction is > > 50 - > > > > 50 > > > > statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth sense > > thru > > > > yoga > > > > or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict > > > > consistently > > > > the future. " > > > > > > > > Now, I am talking about when Ved were being passed on through > > shrut > > > > gyan at that time 5 planets were not given that much importance > > as > > > > it was given to Sun and Moon, const. etc. and 5 elements were > > related > > > > to the planets as an initial stage for formulating astrological > > > > principles. Thus comedy of errors started (you are right), which > > have > > > > engulphed whole human civilization and lot of unilateral > > discussions > > > > are going on, without digging. Thus any prediction turns out to > > be > > > > true may be due to strong 6th sense (you are right). But from > > this > > > > how we can draw an inference that astrology (predictive ) is > > correct. > > > > > > > > Till now no dispute. > > > > Now I am not agree with your opinion that " our vedas mention > > that the > > > > sun never rises or sets " nor there was any mention that galaxy is > > > > lords chakram etc. Yes, we may take it on philosophical ground > > with > > > > our faith towards a particular religion. But I can give you many > > > > references where it was mentioned in the Ved that Sun rises and > > set. > > > > Even in Rigved mandal 1 sukt 164 slok 7 it was asked that who > > ever > > > > know about the birth of Sun may come forward to tell the mystery. > > > > Rigved mandal 1 sukt 50 slok 2 says that after sunrise all > > > > constellations hide themselves like thieves. Rigved mandal 1 sukt > > > > 50 slok 5 says that sun rises daily so that all living being > > may see > > > > him. Rigved mandal 1 sukt 191 slok 8 says that sun rises from > > the > > > > east and so on. Many more references can be quoted. Though we > > have > > > > diverted from our main point about the element of mercury and its > > > > enmity with the lordship of sign. > > > > > > > > But it seems you have given your opinion that it is comedy of > > errors. > > > > Yours truly, > > > > Sanat > > > > 5-4-2008 > > > > > > > > Re: Science of astrology -1 > > > > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman@ > > > > sureshbalaraman > > > > Thu Apr 3, 2008 5:50 pm (PDT) > > > > > > > > Namastay Sanatji : > > > > > > > > Since you have brought messages from Hindu Calendar forum,i will > > try > > > > to > > > > answere in proper context. > > > > > > > > (1) > > > > > > > > The purpose of Jyotisha as Vedanga was to prepare the student of > > Veda > > > > and Upanishad in understanding the place of man in the > > Universe.That > > > > it > > > > has become some sort of tool to predict mundane life trials & > > > > tribulations is the wayward way life is going on.After studying > > > > economics in some of the best schools in the world,majority of > > nations > > > > economic advisors worldover are grossly stupid in managing their > > > > economies,and the economic woes of common man,is incresing > > > > exponentially.But yet we are concerned about jyotish vidya,which > > is > > > > being used out of context.(2) > > > > > > > > Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation > > > > > > > > TEXT 71 > > > > > > > > sraddhavan anasuyas ca > > > > srnuyad api yo narah > > > > so 'pi muktah subhal lokan > > > > prapnuyat punya-karmanam > > > > > > > > TRANSLATION > > > > > > > > And one who listens with faith and without envy becomes free from > > > > sinful > > > > reactions and attains to the planets where the pious dwell. > > > > > > > > http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html > > <http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html> > > > > (3)Astro-Logic;Sun-Aditya-Ravi Varam;Moon-Chandra-Soma > > > > Varam;Mars-Mangala-Mangala Varam;Mercury-Budhan-Budhan > > > > Varam;Jupiter-Guru-Guru Varam;Venus-Sukra-Sukra > > > > Varam;Saturn-Shanieswaran-Shanieswara Varam.Of the > > Navagrahas,seven of > > > > the above planets are included in our Panchangam.Rahu & Ketu > > have been > > > > allotted special timings so as to avoid doing important work. (3) > > > > > > > > Om Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu: > > > > May Peace & Happiness Prevail > > > > > > > > Amma has chosen some peace mantras for daily chanting by her > > devotees > > > > and disciples. One of those invocations is Om lokah samastah > > sukhino > > > > bhavantu. Although this mantra does not appear in any of the > > existent > > > > Veda sakhas [Vedic branches], it is an ex-pression of the > > universal > > > > spirit that we find therein1. Let's take a look at what context > > it > > > > appears in and what meaning it carries. The sloka as a whole > > reads as > > > > follows: > > > > > > > > svasti prajabhyam paripalayantham nyayeana margena mahim maheesah > > > > gobrahmanebhya shubamsthu nityam lokah samastha sukhino bhavanthu > > > > > > > > May there be well being to the people; > > > > May the kings(Presidents,Prime Ministers etc) rule the earth > > along the > > > > right path; > > > > May the cattle and the Brahmins have well being forever; > > > > May all the beings in all the worlds(seven in number) become > > happy; > > > > Peace, peace and peace be everywhere! > > > > > > > > http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php > > > > <http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php> > > > > > > > > (4) > > > > > > > > Sathapatha Brahmana 14.16: > > > > Katame Vasava iti. Agnischa prithivi cha > > > > vayusch-antarikshamchaadityascha dyouscha chandramascha > > nakshatrani > > > > chaite Vasava aeteshu hidam sarve vasu hitam aete hidam sarve > > > > vasayante > > > > taddyudidam sarve vasayante tasmad Vasava iti. > > > > > > > > The Sathapatha Brahmana gives the list of eight Vasu as (1) Agni > > (2) > > > > Prithvi (3) Vayu (4) Antariksha (5) Aditya (6) Dyou (7) > > Chandrama and > > > > (8) Nakshetra. Prima facie this may seem a bit contradictory as > > Aditya > > > > has also been mentioned separately but here it refers to the Sun, > > > > Chandra refers to the Moon, Nakshetra are the lunar mansions or > > the > > > > constellations and the remaining five represent the states of > > material > > > > existence. These eight form the primary source of enlightenment > > about > > > > the self. They represent the basic variables that define every > > > > creation > > > > and its original source of illumination in the ten methods > > defined > > > > earlier as the purpose of the deva. The Vishnu Purana makes this > > more > > > > lucid in the definition of the Vasu's as > > > > > > > > 1. Apa – Jala Tatwa or liquid > > > > 2. Dhara – Prithvi Tatwa or solid > > > > 3. Anila – Vayu Tatwa or Gas > > > > 4. Anala – Agni Tatwa or Energy > > > > 5. Dhruva – the pole star representing > > > > a. Akash Tatwa – the sky or Vacuum and > > > > b. fixity of the zodiac i.e. the relevance of Ayanamsa > > > > 6. Soma – The Moon > > > > 7. Pratyusha – the recurring dawn representing > > > > a. The Sun – as causing the night and day i.e. the source > > > > of light behind the dawn, > > > > b. Lagna – The ascendant or the point in the eastern > > > > horizon as representing the self and is equated to the dawn. > > > > 8. Prabhasa – splendorous lights of the stars that are grouped > > > > into 27/28 Nakshetra (Constellations). > > > > > > > > This list is the first principle of Jyotish where the bodies that > > > > create > > > > all beings as well as guide them through various activities are > > > > defined. > > > > These include (a) the Sun, (b) the Moon, © the constellations > > called > > > > Nakshetra and (d) the Pancha Tatwa or (the guidance/direction > > from) > > > > the > > > > five states of existence of all matter and energy. Thus, the > > > > luminaries > > > > (Sun & Moon), the five planets Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus & > > Saturn > > > > [ruling the five states of energy (Agni), solid (Prithvi), ether > > > > (Akash), liquid (Jala) and gas (Vayu) respectively] and the 27 > > (or 28) > > > > lunar mansion called Nakshetra form the first principle. Birth > > implies > > > > creation and this is the Satvic principle of sustenance of the > > born or > > > > created being. > > > > > > > > http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt-sanjay- > > rath.html > > > > <http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt-sanjay- > > > > rath.html> > > > > > > > > As a philosopher,our vedas mention that " the sun never rises or > > sets " > > > > that is the actual truth.We have taken arbitary points for > > > > mathematical > > > > purposes,constructed the measurement of time known as per the > > > > perception > > > > of humanity,as per evolution over milleniums.In fact the milky > > way,is > > > > only a " chakram " of the lord which he happens to hold in one of > > his > > > > fingers,when one can visualise in cosmic > > contemplation,the " swayam > > > > rupam " when you pray to see the form. > > > > > > > > The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of > > > > vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a > > soothsayer > > > > business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction is > > 50 - > > > > 50 > > > > statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth sense > > thru > > > > yoga > > > > or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict > > > > consistently > > > > the future. > > > > > > > > Suresh Balaraman. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 Bala, The position of moon as well as lagna will change,at the minimal.When you go deeper,one can calculate to the degrees,which is bound to change.I believe the the popular ayanamsha is approx 23 degrees though there are many who adopt different ones. Suresh Balaraman. , " balas_9999 " <balas_9999 wrote: > > Suresh - Thanks for your comments on Nadi Jyotisham. > > I would like to share another interesting incident with the members. > > Till about a couple of hours back I was under the impression that a > slight change in the birth timings can result in a totally different > Kundali. But using one of the online sites, I first modified my > birth timings +-15 to 10 minutes and did not find any change in > Lagna, Rashi, Nakshtra, Planets in Houses, etc. Then I added one day > (+1 day) to my birth date. Yet the horoscope casting was exactly the > same as the original. > > I am not an astrologer but find it difficult to accept that a full > one day has not made any changes to the horoscope. Does it mean that > all the children taking birth during the period of 24 hours or more > in the same birth place will have the same destiny / fate / future > or whatever we may call it? > > Kindly excuse me if I am getting wrong results due to some error > from my side. > > Bala > > > > , " sureshbalaraman " > sureshbalaraman@ wrote: > > > > Bala, > > > > You are right about Nadi jyotisham.Difficult for me to figure it > out.But > > of late,i am begginning to feel,somehow they are too not above > > boards.Ultimately its a means of making a living for these > > astrologers,unlike what it was originally meant for.That is why > > Brahmanas were so straight forward,money,lucre,status,power etc all > > these higly material benfits did not have a sway for them because > the > > Kings ensured that,the brahmana community would never ever have to > > resort to think of earning a living.Therefore all the time > > learning,observing,chanting,yagyas etc were the key foundation for > the > > upliftment of humanity at that time(5000 years back). > > > > Suresh Balaraman. > > > > , " balas_9999 " > <balas_9999@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I tend to agree with what has been written on the subject of > > > astrology in this forum. The chances of a prediction coming true > is > > > 50 - 50%. If the predictions are cent percent accurate then it > means > > > that there is no free will in this world and everything is pre- > > > destined. > > > > > > Although, it may be a little pre-mature to talk about Nadi > Sashtra, > > > I would request members to provide their thoughts and > experiences on > > > the same so that a comparison can be drawn between the two. > > > > > > Bala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " sureshbalaraman " > > > sureshbalaraman@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > In astronomical text Shatapatha Brahmana > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatapatha_Brahmana> , : > > > > > > > > " The sun is stationed for all time, in the middle of the day. > > > [...] Of > > > > he sun, which is always in one and the same place, there is > neither > > > > setting nor rising. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Aitareya Brahmana > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aitareya_Brahmana> > > > > (2.7) (c. 9th–8th century BC) also states: > > > > > > > > " The Sun never sets nor rises. When people think the sun is > > > setting, it > > > > is not so; they are mistaken. It only changes about after > reaching > > > the > > > > end of the day and makes night below and day to what is on the > > > other > > > > side. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suresh Balaraman. > > > > > > > > > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Science of astrology – 1 > > > > > Res. Suresh Ji, > > > > > You may be right in first few lines that " The purpose of > > > Jyotisha as > > > > > Vedanga was to prepare the student of Veda and Upanishad in > > > > > understanding the place of man in the Universe. " and last few > > > lines > > > > > that " The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of > > > > > vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a > > > soothsayer > > > > > business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction > is > > > 50 - > > > > > 50 > > > > > statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth > sense > > > thru > > > > > yoga > > > > > or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict > > > > > consistently > > > > > the future. " > > > > > > > > > > Now, I am talking about when Ved were being passed on through > > > shrut > > > > > gyan at that time 5 planets were not given that much > importance > > > as > > > > > it was given to Sun and Moon, const. etc. and 5 elements were > > > related > > > > > to the planets as an initial stage for formulating > astrological > > > > > principles. Thus comedy of errors started (you are right), > which > > > have > > > > > engulphed whole human civilization and lot of unilateral > > > discussions > > > > > are going on, without digging. Thus any prediction turns out > to > > > be > > > > > true may be due to strong 6th sense (you are right). But from > > > this > > > > > how we can draw an inference that astrology (predictive ) is > > > correct. > > > > > > > > > > Till now no dispute. > > > > > Now I am not agree with your opinion that " our vedas mention > > > that the > > > > > sun never rises or sets " nor there was any mention that > galaxy is > > > > > lords chakram etc. Yes, we may take it on philosophical > ground > > > with > > > > > our faith towards a particular religion. But I can give you > many > > > > > references where it was mentioned in the Ved that Sun rises > and > > > set. > > > > > Even in Rigved mandal 1 sukt 164 slok 7 it was asked that > who > > > ever > > > > > know about the birth of Sun may come forward to tell the > mystery. > > > > > Rigved mandal 1 sukt 50 slok 2 says that after sunrise all > > > > > constellations hide themselves like thieves. Rigved mandal 1 > sukt > > > > > 50 slok 5 says that sun rises daily so that all living being > > > may see > > > > > him. Rigved mandal 1 sukt 191 slok 8 says that sun rises > from > > > the > > > > > east and so on. Many more references can be quoted. Though > we > > > have > > > > > diverted from our main point about the element of mercury > and its > > > > > enmity with the lordship of sign. > > > > > > > > > > But it seems you have given your opinion that it is comedy of > > > errors. > > > > > Yours truly, > > > > > Sanat > > > > > 5-4-2008 > > > > > > > > > > Re: Science of astrology -1 > > > > > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman@ > > > > > sureshbalaraman > > > > > Thu Apr 3, 2008 5:50 pm (PDT) > > > > > > > > > > Namastay Sanatji : > > > > > > > > > > Since you have brought messages from Hindu Calendar forum,i > will > > > try > > > > > to > > > > > answere in proper context. > > > > > > > > > > (1) > > > > > > > > > > The purpose of Jyotisha as Vedanga was to prepare the > student of > > > Veda > > > > > and Upanishad in understanding the place of man in the > > > Universe.That > > > > > it > > > > > has become some sort of tool to predict mundane life trials & > > > > > tribulations is the wayward way life is going on.After > studying > > > > > economics in some of the best schools in the world,majority > of > > > nations > > > > > economic advisors worldover are grossly stupid in managing > their > > > > > economies,and the economic woes of common man,is incresing > > > > > exponentially.But yet we are concerned about jyotish > vidya,which > > > is > > > > > being used out of context.(2) > > > > > > > > > > Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation > > > > > > > > > > TEXT 71 > > > > > > > > > > sraddhavan anasuyas ca > > > > > srnuyad api yo narah > > > > > so 'pi muktah subhal lokan > > > > > prapnuyat punya-karmanam > > > > > > > > > > TRANSLATION > > > > > > > > > > And one who listens with faith and without envy becomes free > from > > > > > sinful > > > > > reactions and attains to the planets where the pious dwell. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html > > > <http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html> > > > > > (3)Astro-Logic;Sun-Aditya-Ravi Varam;Moon-Chandra-Soma > > > > > Varam;Mars-Mangala-Mangala Varam;Mercury-Budhan-Budhan > > > > > Varam;Jupiter-Guru-Guru Varam;Venus-Sukra-Sukra > > > > > Varam;Saturn-Shanieswaran-Shanieswara Varam.Of the > > > Navagrahas,seven of > > > > > the above planets are included in our Panchangam.Rahu & Ketu > > > have been > > > > > allotted special timings so as to avoid doing important work. > (3) > > > > > > > > > > Om Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu: > > > > > May Peace & Happiness Prevail > > > > > > > > > > Amma has chosen some peace mantras for daily chanting by her > > > devotees > > > > > and disciples. One of those invocations is Om lokah samastah > > > sukhino > > > > > bhavantu. Although this mantra does not appear in any of the > > > existent > > > > > Veda sakhas [Vedic branches], it is an ex-pression of the > > > universal > > > > > spirit that we find therein1. Let's take a look at what > context > > > it > > > > > appears in and what meaning it carries. The sloka as a whole > > > reads as > > > > > follows: > > > > > > > > > > svasti prajabhyam paripalayantham nyayeana margena mahim > maheesah > > > > > gobrahmanebhya shubamsthu nityam lokah samastha sukhino > bhavanthu > > > > > > > > > > May there be well being to the people; > > > > > May the kings(Presidents,Prime Ministers etc) rule the earth > > > along the > > > > > right path; > > > > > May the cattle and the Brahmins have well being forever; > > > > > May all the beings in all the worlds(seven in number) become > > > happy; > > > > > Peace, peace and peace be everywhere! > > > > > > > > > > http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php > > > > > <http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php> > > > > > > > > > > (4) > > > > > > > > > > Sathapatha Brahmana 14.16: > > > > > Katame Vasava iti. Agnischa prithivi cha > > > > > vayusch-antarikshamchaadityascha dyouscha chandramascha > > > nakshatrani > > > > > chaite Vasava aeteshu hidam sarve vasu hitam aete hidam sarve > > > > > vasayante > > > > > taddyudidam sarve vasayante tasmad Vasava iti. > > > > > > > > > > The Sathapatha Brahmana gives the list of eight Vasu as (1) > Agni > > > (2) > > > > > Prithvi (3) Vayu (4) Antariksha (5) Aditya (6) Dyou (7) > > > Chandrama and > > > > > (8) Nakshetra. Prima facie this may seem a bit contradictory > as > > > Aditya > > > > > has also been mentioned separately but here it refers to the > Sun, > > > > > Chandra refers to the Moon, Nakshetra are the lunar mansions > or > > > the > > > > > constellations and the remaining five represent the states of > > > material > > > > > existence. These eight form the primary source of > enlightenment > > > about > > > > > the self. They represent the basic variables that define > every > > > > > creation > > > > > and its original source of illumination in the ten methods > > > defined > > > > > earlier as the purpose of the deva. The Vishnu Purana makes > this > > > more > > > > > lucid in the definition of the Vasu's as > > > > > > > > > > 1. Apa – Jala Tatwa or liquid > > > > > 2. Dhara – Prithvi Tatwa or solid > > > > > 3. Anila – Vayu Tatwa or Gas > > > > > 4. Anala – Agni Tatwa or Energy > > > > > 5. Dhruva – the pole star representing > > > > > a. Akash Tatwa – the sky or Vacuum and > > > > > b. fixity of the zodiac i.e. the relevance of Ayanamsa > > > > > 6. Soma – The Moon > > > > > 7. Pratyusha – the recurring dawn representing > > > > > a. The Sun – as causing the night and day i.e. the source > > > > > of light behind the dawn, > > > > > b. Lagna – The ascendant or the point in the eastern > > > > > horizon as representing the self and is equated to the dawn. > > > > > 8. Prabhasa – splendorous lights of the stars that are > grouped > > > > > into 27/28 Nakshetra (Constellations). > > > > > > > > > > This list is the first principle of Jyotish where the bodies > that > > > > > create > > > > > all beings as well as guide them through various activities > are > > > > > defined. > > > > > These include (a) the Sun, (b) the Moon, © the > constellations > > > called > > > > > Nakshetra and (d) the Pancha Tatwa or (the guidance/direction > > > from) > > > > > the > > > > > five states of existence of all matter and energy. Thus, the > > > > > luminaries > > > > > (Sun & Moon), the five planets Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus > & > > > Saturn > > > > > [ruling the five states of energy (Agni), solid (Prithvi), > ether > > > > > (Akash), liquid (Jala) and gas (Vayu) respectively] and the > 27 > > > (or 28) > > > > > lunar mansion called Nakshetra form the first principle. > Birth > > > implies > > > > > creation and this is the Satvic principle of sustenance of > the > > > born or > > > > > created being. > > > > > > > > > > http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt-sanjay- > > > rath.html > > > > > <http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt-sanjay- > > > > > rath.html> > > > > > > > > > > As a philosopher,our vedas mention that " the sun never rises > or > > > sets " > > > > > that is the actual truth.We have taken arbitary points for > > > > > mathematical > > > > > purposes,constructed the measurement of time known as per the > > > > > perception > > > > > of humanity,as per evolution over milleniums.In fact the > milky > > > way,is > > > > > only a " chakram " of the lord which he happens to hold in > one of > > > his > > > > > fingers,when one can visualise in cosmic > > > contemplation,the " swayam > > > > > rupam " when you pray to see the form. > > > > > > > > > > The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of > > > > > vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a > > > soothsayer > > > > > business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction > is > > > 50 - > > > > > 50 > > > > > statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth > sense > > > thru > > > > > yoga > > > > > or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict > > > > > consistently > > > > > the future. > > > > > > > > > > Suresh Balaraman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 Thanks Suresh for clarifying my doubts. Half-knowledge is always dangerous and I would have been spreading this news to several others. I stand corrected. Bala , " sureshbalaraman " <sureshbalaraman wrote: > > Bala, > > The position of moon as well as lagna will change,at the minimal.When > you go deeper,one can calculate to the degrees,which is bound to > change.I believe the the popular ayanamsha is approx 23 degrees though > there are many who adopt different ones. > > Suresh Balaraman. > > , " balas_9999 " <balas_9999@> > wrote: > > > > Suresh - Thanks for your comments on Nadi Jyotisham. > > > > I would like to share another interesting incident with the members. > > > > Till about a couple of hours back I was under the impression that a > > slight change in the birth timings can result in a totally different > > Kundali. But using one of the online sites, I first modified my > > birth timings +-15 to 10 minutes and did not find any change in > > Lagna, Rashi, Nakshtra, Planets in Houses, etc. Then I added one day > > (+1 day) to my birth date. Yet the horoscope casting was exactly the > > same as the original. > > > > I am not an astrologer but find it difficult to accept that a full > > one day has not made any changes to the horoscope. Does it mean that > > all the children taking birth during the period of 24 hours or more > > in the same birth place will have the same destiny / fate / future > > or whatever we may call it? > > > > Kindly excuse me if I am getting wrong results due to some error > > from my side. > > > > Bala > > > > > > > > , " sureshbalaraman " > > sureshbalaraman@ wrote: > > > > > > Bala, > > > > > > You are right about Nadi jyotisham.Difficult for me to figure it > > out.But > > > of late,i am begginning to feel,somehow they are too not above > > > boards.Ultimately its a means of making a living for these > > > astrologers,unlike what it was originally meant for.That is why > > > Brahmanas were so straight forward,money,lucre,status,power etc all > > > these higly material benfits did not have a sway for them because > > the > > > Kings ensured that,the brahmana community would never ever have to > > > resort to think of earning a living.Therefore all the time > > > learning,observing,chanting,yagyas etc were the key foundation for > > the > > > upliftment of humanity at that time(5000 years back). > > > > > > Suresh Balaraman. > > > > > > , " balas_9999 " > > <balas_9999@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I tend to agree with what has been written on the subject of > > > > astrology in this forum. The chances of a prediction coming true > > is > > > > 50 - 50%. If the predictions are cent percent accurate then it > > means > > > > that there is no free will in this world and everything is pre- > > > > destined. > > > > > > > > Although, it may be a little pre-mature to talk about Nadi > > Sashtra, > > > > I would request members to provide their thoughts and > > experiences on > > > > the same so that a comparison can be drawn between the two. > > > > > > > > Bala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " sureshbalaraman " > > > > sureshbalaraman@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In astronomical text Shatapatha Brahmana > > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatapatha_Brahmana> , : > > > > > > > > > > " The sun is stationed for all time, in the middle of the day. > > > > [...] Of > > > > > he sun, which is always in one and the same place, there is > > neither > > > > > setting nor rising. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Aitareya Brahmana > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aitareya_Brahmana> > > > > > (2.7) (c. 9th–8th century BC) also states: > > > > > > > > > > " The Sun never sets nor rises. When people think the sun is > > > > setting, it > > > > > is not so; they are mistaken. It only changes about after > > reaching > > > > the > > > > > end of the day and makes night below and day to what is on the > > > > other > > > > > side. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suresh Balaraman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Science of astrology – 1 > > > > > > Res. Suresh Ji, > > > > > > You may be right in first few lines that " The purpose of > > > > Jyotisha as > > > > > > Vedanga was to prepare the student of Veda and Upanishad in > > > > > > understanding the place of man in the Universe. " and last few > > > > lines > > > > > > that " The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of > > > > > > vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a > > > > soothsayer > > > > > > business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction > > is > > > > 50 - > > > > > > 50 > > > > > > statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth > > sense > > > > thru > > > > > > yoga > > > > > > or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict > > > > > > consistently > > > > > > the future. " > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, I am talking about when Ved were being passed on through > > > > shrut > > > > > > gyan at that time 5 planets were not given that much > > importance > > > > as > > > > > > it was given to Sun and Moon, const. etc. and 5 elements were > > > > related > > > > > > to the planets as an initial stage for formulating > > astrological > > > > > > principles. Thus comedy of errors started (you are right), > > which > > > > have > > > > > > engulphed whole human civilization and lot of unilateral > > > > discussions > > > > > > are going on, without digging. Thus any prediction turns out > > to > > > > be > > > > > > true may be due to strong 6th sense (you are right). But from > > > > this > > > > > > how we can draw an inference that astrology (predictive ) is > > > > correct. > > > > > > > > > > > > Till now no dispute. > > > > > > Now I am not agree with your opinion that " our vedas mention > > > > that the > > > > > > sun never rises or sets " nor there was any mention that > > galaxy is > > > > > > lords chakram etc. Yes, we may take it on philosophical > > ground > > > > with > > > > > > our faith towards a particular religion. But I can give you > > many > > > > > > references where it was mentioned in the Ved that Sun rises > > and > > > > set. > > > > > > Even in Rigved mandal 1 sukt 164 slok 7 it was asked that > > who > > > > ever > > > > > > know about the birth of Sun may come forward to tell the > > mystery. > > > > > > Rigved mandal 1 sukt 50 slok 2 says that after sunrise all > > > > > > constellations hide themselves like thieves. Rigved mandal 1 > > sukt > > > > > > 50 slok 5 says that sun rises daily so that all living being > > > > may see > > > > > > him. Rigved mandal 1 sukt 191 slok 8 says that sun rises > > from > > > > the > > > > > > east and so on. Many more references can be quoted. Though > > we > > > > have > > > > > > diverted from our main point about the element of mercury > > and its > > > > > > enmity with the lordship of sign. > > > > > > > > > > > > But it seems you have given your opinion that it is comedy of > > > > errors. > > > > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > Sanat > > > > > > 5-4-2008 > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Science of astrology -1 > > > > > > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman@ > > > > > > sureshbalaraman > > > > > > Thu Apr 3, 2008 5:50 pm (PDT) > > > > > > > > > > > > Namastay Sanatji : > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you have brought messages from Hindu Calendar forum,i > > will > > > > try > > > > > > to > > > > > > answere in proper context. > > > > > > > > > > > > (1) > > > > > > > > > > > > The purpose of Jyotisha as Vedanga was to prepare the > > student of > > > > Veda > > > > > > and Upanishad in understanding the place of man in the > > > > Universe.That > > > > > > it > > > > > > has become some sort of tool to predict mundane life trials & > > > > > > tribulations is the wayward way life is going on.After > > studying > > > > > > economics in some of the best schools in the world,majority > > of > > > > nations > > > > > > economic advisors worldover are grossly stupid in managing > > their > > > > > > economies,and the economic woes of common man,is incresing > > > > > > exponentially.But yet we are concerned about jyotish > > vidya,which > > > > is > > > > > > being used out of context.(2) > > > > > > > > > > > > Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation > > > > > > > > > > > > TEXT 71 > > > > > > > > > > > > sraddhavan anasuyas ca > > > > > > srnuyad api yo narah > > > > > > so 'pi muktah subhal lokan > > > > > > prapnuyat punya-karmanam > > > > > > > > > > > > TRANSLATION > > > > > > > > > > > > And one who listens with faith and without envy becomes free > > from > > > > > > sinful > > > > > > reactions and attains to the planets where the pious dwell. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html > > > > <http://www.asitis.com/18/71.html> > > > > > > (3)Astro-Logic;Sun-Aditya-Ravi Varam;Moon-Chandra-Soma > > > > > > Varam;Mars-Mangala-Mangala Varam;Mercury-Budhan-Budhan > > > > > > Varam;Jupiter-Guru-Guru Varam;Venus-Sukra-Sukra > > > > > > Varam;Saturn-Shanieswaran-Shanieswara Varam.Of the > > > > Navagrahas,seven of > > > > > > the above planets are included in our Panchangam.Rahu & Ketu > > > > have been > > > > > > allotted special timings so as to avoid doing important work. > > (3) > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu: > > > > > > May Peace & Happiness Prevail > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma has chosen some peace mantras for daily chanting by her > > > > devotees > > > > > > and disciples. One of those invocations is Om lokah samastah > > > > sukhino > > > > > > bhavantu. Although this mantra does not appear in any of the > > > > existent > > > > > > Veda sakhas [Vedic branches], it is an ex-pression of the > > > > universal > > > > > > spirit that we find therein1. Let's take a look at what > > context > > > > it > > > > > > appears in and what meaning it carries. The sloka as a whole > > > > reads as > > > > > > follows: > > > > > > > > > > > > svasti prajabhyam paripalayantham nyayeana margena mahim > > maheesah > > > > > > gobrahmanebhya shubamsthu nityam lokah samastha sukhino > > bhavanthu > > > > > > > > > > > > May there be well being to the people; > > > > > > May the kings(Presidents,Prime Ministers etc) rule the earth > > > > along the > > > > > > right path; > > > > > > May the cattle and the Brahmins have well being forever; > > > > > > May all the beings in all the worlds(seven in number) become > > > > happy; > > > > > > Peace, peace and peace be everywhere! > > > > > > > > > > > > http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php > > > > > > <http://archives.amritapuri.org/bharat/mantra/lokah.php> > > > > > > > > > > > > (4) > > > > > > > > > > > > Sathapatha Brahmana 14.16: > > > > > > Katame Vasava iti. Agnischa prithivi cha > > > > > > vayusch-antarikshamchaadityascha dyouscha chandramascha > > > > nakshatrani > > > > > > chaite Vasava aeteshu hidam sarve vasu hitam aete hidam sarve > > > > > > vasayante > > > > > > taddyudidam sarve vasayante tasmad Vasava iti. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Sathapatha Brahmana gives the list of eight Vasu as (1) > > Agni > > > > (2) > > > > > > Prithvi (3) Vayu (4) Antariksha (5) Aditya (6) Dyou (7) > > > > Chandrama and > > > > > > (8) Nakshetra. Prima facie this may seem a bit contradictory > > as > > > > Aditya > > > > > > has also been mentioned separately but here it refers to the > > Sun, > > > > > > Chandra refers to the Moon, Nakshetra are the lunar mansions > > or > > > > the > > > > > > constellations and the remaining five represent the states of > > > > material > > > > > > existence. These eight form the primary source of > > enlightenment > > > > about > > > > > > the self. They represent the basic variables that define > > every > > > > > > creation > > > > > > and its original source of illumination in the ten methods > > > > defined > > > > > > earlier as the purpose of the deva. The Vishnu Purana makes > > this > > > > more > > > > > > lucid in the definition of the Vasu's as > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Apa – Jala Tatwa or liquid > > > > > > 2. Dhara – Prithvi Tatwa or solid > > > > > > 3. Anila – Vayu Tatwa or Gas > > > > > > 4. Anala – Agni Tatwa or Energy > > > > > > 5. Dhruva – the pole star representing > > > > > > a. Akash Tatwa – the sky or Vacuum and > > > > > > b. fixity of the zodiac i.e. the relevance of Ayanamsa > > > > > > 6. Soma – The Moon > > > > > > 7. Pratyusha – the recurring dawn representing > > > > > > a. The Sun – as causing the night and day i.e. the source > > > > > > of light behind the dawn, > > > > > > b. Lagna – The ascendant or the point in the eastern > > > > > > horizon as representing the self and is equated to the dawn. > > > > > > 8. Prabhasa – splendorous lights of the stars that are > > grouped > > > > > > into 27/28 Nakshetra (Constellations). > > > > > > > > > > > > This list is the first principle of Jyotish where the bodies > > that > > > > > > create > > > > > > all beings as well as guide them through various activities > > are > > > > > > defined. > > > > > > These include (a) the Sun, (b) the Moon, © the > > constellations > > > > called > > > > > > Nakshetra and (d) the Pancha Tatwa or (the guidance/direction > > > > from) > > > > > > the > > > > > > five states of existence of all matter and energy. Thus, the > > > > > > luminaries > > > > > > (Sun & Moon), the five planets Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus > > & > > > > Saturn > > > > > > [ruling the five states of energy (Agni), solid (Prithvi), > > ether > > > > > > (Akash), liquid (Jala) and gas (Vayu) respectively] and the > > 27 > > > > (or 28) > > > > > > lunar mansion called Nakshetra form the first principle. > > Birth > > > > implies > > > > > > creation and this is the Satvic principle of sustenance of > > the > > > > born or > > > > > > created being. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt- sanjay- > > > > rath.html > > > > > > <http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004/07/33-devas-pt- sanjay- > > > > > > rath.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > As a philosopher,our vedas mention that " the sun never rises > > or > > > > sets " > > > > > > that is the actual truth.We have taken arbitary points for > > > > > > mathematical > > > > > > purposes,constructed the measurement of time known as per the > > > > > > perception > > > > > > of humanity,as per evolution over milleniums.In fact the > > milky > > > > way,is > > > > > > only a " chakram " of the lord which he happens to hold in > > one of > > > > his > > > > > > fingers,when one can visualise in cosmic > > > > contemplation,the " swayam > > > > > > rupam " when you pray to see the form. > > > > > > > > > > > > The bottomline is,jyotisham is for the student of > > > > > > vedas,upanishads...that this knowledge has crept into a > > > > soothsayer > > > > > > business is a comedy of errors.The probability of prediction > > is > > > > 50 - > > > > > > 50 > > > > > > statistically.Because one has strengthened his/her sixth > > sense > > > > thru > > > > > > yoga > > > > > > or bhakthi or poorva janma karma,he/she is able to predict > > > > > > consistently > > > > > > the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > Suresh Balaraman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 >>Because we are discussing the science of astrology hence it has nothing to do with any religious belief.<< As per Sanathana Dharma,its Vedanga " eye of the vedas " .plz try to read if you want to.. http://kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part10/chap1.htm the great paramacharya or Mahaswami as he is being referred these days,is saint among saints,guru amongst gurus..this is my opinion.. as per shankara who is eswara himself,bhaja govindam bhaja govindham mooda mathe,samprapthe..... i guess you get the drift >>1 Arya samaj who is actually caring for Ved is totally against the predictive astrology.<< i am not a arya samaji,but i respect raja ram mohan roy,fo r one single act of abolishing " Sati " from sanathana dharma. >>astrologers is just a befooling tactics<< i think in my earlier posts i have mentioned why celestial bodies were used by maha-purushas and their main purpose to condition the mind to attain moksha from births. >>vedang (astronomy)from NASA << NASA people are far from all these.Why are you dragging them to create some sort of credibility in discussion.Americans respect Indians and vice versa. >>Shatapatha Brahmana & Aitareya Brahmana, which were written afte Ved.<< so you now have a verifiable date for vedas and the authorship of vedas..hmm..sounds like BS to me. >>Thus it was a development in skill. But translation is wrong as in that case what 7 horses were doing.<< the seven horses mentioned are the seven colors of light which get refracted(VIBGYOR).The great teachers of india,told stories to impart knowledge,as was prevalent more than 5000 years back.That today we are discussing about it,is a tribute to the ancient teachers,who have done a terrific job.Om shri Gurubyo namaha!! >>Thus our sages were not wrong (even their wrong concept), actually we are wrong who are trying our best to turn the table and reversing the developmental sequence by any how proving the concept of sages as right (by wrong translation of slok etc.), perhaps somewhere religious compulsion may be there. But academically we must be right.<< I am not a sanskrit scholar.Every day/night ( even though,there is no sun rise or sunset-philosophically) i learn,for me its a continuous process till i leave this body,spend some time with my folks in sorgam,and come to another body as per my karma.This is my self-realisation. :) Last but not least,i am sorry-if i have irritated you in any way.Now i know that,i have done thru cyber-space.Hopefully you are telling the truth.If not may god give you good sense. Bye. Suresh Balaraman. , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > > Res. SB Ji, > I am not able to understand as to where you want to lead the > interaction by meaning of my name or belief in Ved by Jains. It makes > no difference as to whether I believe in Ved or not. Because we are > discussing the science of astrology hence it has nothing to do with > any religious belief. So far your question is concerned I believe Ved > like I believe Jainism or so. But if you are trying to say that if > someone believe in Ved then he must believe astrology. Then I am > sorry to say that you are totally wrong. Because > 1 Arya samaj who is actually caring for Ved is totally against the > predictive astrology. > 2 Ved has nothing to do with predictive astrology. > 3 Vedang ie astrology is a part (out of 6) of Ved, as is being > propagated by astrologers is just a befooling tactics. Astrology as > vedang has nothing to do with prediction and Vedang (astrology) in > vedic era is limited to working out the auspicious time for yagya > etc. There was only one word astrology which has now been bifurcated > like astrology (means prediction) and astronomy. > 4 With reference to present terminology, astronomy was vedang (out of > 6) and not astrology. > 5 Astrologers are borrowing the information of vedang (astronomy) > from NASA (after forgetting the procedure adopted by our sages, which > was primitive and not accurate), and astrology which has nothing to > do with Ved is propagated on the name of our great sages (astronomers > not astrologers). > 6 Thus even if you believe in Ved then you must oppose predictive > astrology as a religious matter (I am not diverting towards any > religioun). > > But scientifically either we may have reasons to verify that planets > affects day-to-day event of every individual which can be decoded > with the help of astrological principles or we may find the basic of > formulation of astrological principles and their scientific viability > with applied forecast. In view of this I can say that I believe in > Ved, as I believe in astronomy (which was the concept of Ved), > whereas you are not believing on Ved because you believe in astrology > (predictive). Hi Hi. Enjoy Enjoy. Don't irritate. > > In your another msg you have quoted astronomical text of Shatapatha > Brahmana & Aitareya Brahmana, which were written afte Ved. Thus there > concept was in contradiction to Ved due to development of skill > (because we know some thing much better after improving our > knowledge. This process is still going on though under the heading of > science). According to SB Sun is not setting becaue how a god riding > on a chariot of 7 horses may set (die, sleep or so), (because in Ved > it set and rise). Thus it was a development in skill. But translation > is wrong as in that case what 7 horses were doing. > As per AB which indicate further development in knowledge, says (as > per your translation) that " people think the sun is setting, it is > not so; they are mistaken " means in those days our religious concept > or sages (not people, because people were never allowed to read Ved > etc. ) were of the opinion that sun sets, which was contradicted by > the writer of AB and classified concept of earlier sages as wrong. > But this concept was never supported by subsequent sages who > developed the principles of predictive astrology. > The knowledge was further developed by the time of sage parashar who > wrote in Vishnu Puran (2, 8, 41-47) that Sun has to cross all 12 > signs (ofcourse due to motion ot sun) in a day and night, hence it > crosses 6 signs in day and 6 signs in night (though it may be wrong > due to present knowledge). > But I want to emphasise that skill was continuously developing. Hence > concept of every sages is right in view of developmental process > (this is the only process which is still being followed). Thus our > sages were not wrong (even their wrong concept), actually we are > wrong who are trying our best to turn the table and reversing the > developmental sequence by any how proving the concept of sages as > right (by wrong translation of slok etc.), perhaps somewhere > religious compulsion may be there. But academically we must be right. > > > Thanks > Sanat > > 7-4-2008 > > Re: Science of astrology -1 > Posted by: " sureshbalaraman " sureshbalaraman > sureshbalaraman > Sat Apr 5, 2008 7:22 pm (PDT) > > In astronomical text Shatapatha Brahmana > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatapatha_Brahmana> , : > > " The sun is stationed for all time, in the middle of the day. [...] Of > the sun, which is always in one and the same place, there is neither > setting nor rising. " ............ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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