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Respected Umesh Bhai,First of all, I would humbly like to clarify that I am not writing this message to defend or offend anyone and these are strictly my personal views. Secondly, I strongly object to the statement that you do not know Urdu. The message is so precise that it seems to be written by none other than a prominent Urdu knowing person. Sir, thanks for the definition of "Mausauf Siffat" or 'Izaffat". Please confirm whether the correct word is Ilm-Samudrik or Ilm-e-samudik, so that I may correct myself because what is written in the books (I may be wrong) is Ilm-Samudrik not Ilm-e-Samudrik.In the oroginal book, the word on page no. 1 line no 10 is "bidhata". So I fail to understand where is the confusion. Your good-self has further asked that How the readers would know what is the "Tarmeem" is done in the book. In this regard I

would like to ask you, did Pundit ji ever mentioned about this in any of his book? If the answer is no, then how can any person knows about that? I request you to share the secret behind this mystical word. As far as the value of money is concerned, What else a reader can ask for if he/she gets a near transliteration of the original scripture? I would spent twenty time more for such a book. But I feel that a proper list with simple meanings of difficult words should have been included at the end of the book so the the confusing words like Jati could have been clarified.As advised by your good-self I will read the whole book thoroughly and

minutely, and will definitely point out the errors and inform the

fellow mates and the author as I have also found some spelling and

grammatical errors in the book.

The monumental task of translating the original Urdu editions of Lal Kitab was initiated by Shri LK Vashishat ji with LK-1942 about 4-5 years back.. We started with a 60-70% accuracy level in the beginning, the accuracy level has crossed the 95-96% mark within the short span for 2-3 years. Maybe we will see the 100% accurate transliterations/translations in the coming years. RespectfullyYograj Prabhakar--- On Sat, 13/12/08, Umesh Sharma <mudit982001 wrote:Umesh Sharma <mudit982001[lalkitab] LalKitab 1942lalkitab Date: Saturday, 13 December, 2008, 7:51 PM

 

Dear Prabhakar ji I appreciate the labor you took in going through 384 pages lengthy book even after your preoccupation with your work. Prabhakart ji, I would like to know one thing from you, that a reader who is shelling out Rs. 375/- to purchase this book, of course, he also deserves of full amount of material in this regard. Prabhakar ji, I think you have gone through the book keeping in view the contents in hindi as well as in Urdu. I do not know Urdu but as you have commented in 1939 edition of Lak-KItab it shows your command over Urdu, Hats Off, you have translated 1941 edition of LalKitab which is known as "Gutka". Sir, while going through Urdu qvayed(Grammer) there is a sentence formation for compound words which is known as "Mausauf Siffat" or 'Izaffat". Sir, if one has to make compound words he has to use "Izaffat". The Title compound word "Ilam Samudrik" does not qualify the parameters laid down for "Izaffat", as far as my knowledge is concerned. I request your good self to plz comment over it. There are other words written in the book, say 10th line of page no. 1 "Bidhatha" and so others which are above my comprehension. The same fate might be of other words when the reades will go through the book, I wish. Prabhakar ji, I think this book is meant for commercial purposes and not to confer any award on sh. Goswami ji for his services to the promotion of Urdu in transliteration form Govt. Sir, the list may prolong if I give you page by page errors in the book, hence, I would rather like to stick to the cover page of the book which clearly makes fool of the readers by not differentiating between "Ilam" and "Ilme". Prabhakar ji, the other word is "Tarmeem Shudha" which means "corrections" or "corrigendum" . Sir, when the edition is of 1942 how come the "Tarmeem" word is highlighted by Goswami ji. How the readers would know what is the "Tarmeem" is done in the book. Prabhakar ji, your comments are highly solicited in this regard but for God sake plz go through the whole book first as you are learned personality in the field of LalKitab and your review, if done in the parameters, as suggested to you, would mean some thing for the group members. However, I am on the job in going through the book and would come out with some more problems of the books such as page no. xii para 4 the word "Jati". I don't know it means going or personal. Thanks/Regards Umesh Sharma

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Respected Parbhakarji,

 

Thanks for the pains you took in giving reply of my quires. As you said that you are not writing this message to defend or offend anyone, I think that what so ever I said were my own views and not meant to criticize Goswamiji. I again humbly submit that I do not know Urdu which you have are reiterating. Yes, the message was being written with the help of one of my friends who happens to be professor in Dept of Urdu Jamia Millia Islamia Delhi.Sir, by telling the definition of "Mausauf Siffat" or 'Izaffat" I do not want to impose my knowledge of Urdu on you. These are simple grammatical terms which are part of the beginning of Urdu grammar. "Mausauf Siffat" or 'Izaffat" are the formation which gives the impression of "of" or relationship with the subject. Here Subject is ilm and predicate is samudirk. The right compound word is Ilm-e-Samudrik.

Sir, with regards to the word bidhata I would like to say that there is no word in Hindi known as bidhata. As per my knowledge, Vidhata is a Hindi word not Urdu, which should be written as per the parameters of Hindi language. This was the point where you fail to understand. Regarding the word, tarmem Sudha, I have explained the meaning to you earlier. Of course, pandit ji had never said about it. Tarmem Sudha means that the book carries no correction and no errata are required for the book. By just writing the word "tarmemsudha" by the learned translator of 1942 edition, readers may be mislead as they were mislead in 1939 edition whose errata was published with 1940 edition. Sir, the readers wants to read the material of Lal Kitab 1942 edition in easy and lucid language and not about what is written on line 10 page 11 etc.Sir, the Urdu written in Lal kitab is Persianised Urdu which is known as Pakistani Urdu and I think it is Greek for the most of the persons who would read it. I do not think that after shelling out nearly four hundred rupees, the person will not get full value for the money just because he/she gets a near transliteration of the original scripture which is just like ½ kg bundle of 40 gms. paper quality for him due to lack of knowledge of Urdu which is written in the book. What is the use of giving the list of meaning of difficult words? It means the person has to refer the dictionary every time he switches to the next page. Why the book is not translated in such a manner that it gives full value of the money to the readers. As regards to word jati it is nothing but jaati which is purely a Hindi word which means "personal".

Sir, I would really appreciate that you will read the whole book thoroughly and minutely, and will definitely point out the errors and inform the fellow mates and the translator even after your pre-occupation with your work.

I very much agree with you that Shir L.K.Vashisth started translating the 1942 edition of LK1942 some 4/5 years back as he is the only translator, as per my knowledge he is post graduate in Urdu-Arabic from an esteemed University, among the translator of Lal kitab. This thing was disclosed by him at Delhi during the programme which was also attended by you. I would like to seek his services in this regard if he gives his consent. Yes, with his help I would like to give the 100% accurate translation to all, yes not transliteration, which would serve the value for the money of the readers.Thanks/Regards

Umesh Sharmalalkitab , Yograj Prabhakar <yr_prabhakar wrote:>> Respected Umesh Bhai,> > First of all, I would humbly like to clarify that I am not writing this message to defend or offend anyone and these are strictly my personal views. Secondly, I strongly object to the statement that you do not know Urdu. The message is so precise that it seems to be written by none other than a prominent Urdu knowing person. > > Sir, thanks for the definition of "Mausauf Siffat" or 'Izaffat". Please confirm whether the correct word is Ilm-Samudrik or Ilm-e-samudik, so that I may correct myself because what is written in the books (I may be wrong) is Ilm-Samudrik not Ilm-e-Samudrik.> > In the oroginal book, the word on page no. 1 line no 10 is "bidhata". So I fail to understand where is the confusion. Your good-self has further asked that How the readers would know what is the "Tarmeem" is done in the book. In this regard I would like to ask you, did Pundit ji ever mentioned about this in any of his book? If the answer is no, then how can any person knows about that? I request you to share the secret behind this mystical word. > > As far as the value of money is concerned, What else a reader can ask for if he/she gets a near transliteration of the original scripture? I would spent twenty time more for such a book. But I feel that a proper list with simple meanings of difficult words should have been included at the end of the book so the the confusing words like Jati could have been clarified.> > As advised by your good-self I will read the whole book thoroughly and> minutely, and will definitely point out the errors and inform the> fellow mates and the author as I have also found some spelling and> grammatical errors in the book.      > > > The monumental task of translating the original Urdu editions of Lal Kitab was initiated by Shri LK Vashishat ji with LK-1942 about 4-5 years back. We started with a 60-70% accuracy level in the beginning, the accuracy level has crossed the 95-96% mark within the short span for 2-3 years. Maybe we will see the 100% accurate transliterations/translations in the coming years.. > > > Respectfully> Yograj Prabhakar> > > > > --- On Sat, 13/12/08, Umesh Sharma mudit982001 wrote:> Umesh Sharma mudit982001 [lalkitab] LalKitab 1942> lalkitab > Saturday, 13 December, 2008, 7:51 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prabhakar ji > I appreciate the labor you took in going through 384 pages lengthy book even after your preoccupation with your work. Prabhakart ji, I would like to know one thing from you, that a reader who is shelling out Rs. 375/- to purchase this book, of course, he also deserves of full amount of material in this regard. > Prabhakar ji, I think you have gone through the book keeping in view the contents in hindi as well as in Urdu. I do not know Urdu but as you have commented in 1939 edition of Lak-KItab it shows your command over Urdu, Hats Off, you have translated 1941 edition of LalKitab which is known as "Gutka". > Sir, while going through Urdu qvayed(Grammer) there is a sentence formation for compound words which is known as "Mausauf Siffat" or 'Izaffat". Sir, if one has to make compound words he has to use "Izaffat". >          The Title compound word "Ilam Samudrik" does not qualify the parameters laid down for "Izaffat", as far as my knowledge is concerned. I request your good self to plz comment over it. > There are other words written in the book, say 10th line of page no. 1 "Bidhatha" and so others which are above my comprehension. The same fate might be of other words when the reades will go through the book, I wish. Prabhakar ji, I think this book is meant for commercial purposes and not to confer any award on sh. Goswami ji for his services to the promotion of Urdu in transliteration form Govt. Sir, the list may prolong if I give you page by page errors in the book, hence,  I would rather like to stick to the cover page of the book which clearly makes fool of the readers by not differentiating between "Ilam" and "Ilme". > Prabhakar ji, the other word is "Tarmeem Shudha" which means "corrections" or "corrigendum" . Sir, when the edition is of 1942 how come the "Tarmeem" word is highlighted by Goswami ji. How the readers would know what is the "Tarmeem" is done in the book. > Prabhakar ji, your comments are highly solicited in this regard but for God sake plz go through the whole book first as you are learned personality in the field of LalKitab and your review,  if done in the parameters,  as suggested to you,  would mean some thing for the group members. > However, I am on the job in going through the book and would come out with some more problems of the books such as page no. xii para 4 the word "Jati".. I  don't know it means going or personal. >                                                                          Thanks/Regards >                                                                           Umesh Sharma >  >  >      >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger./invite/>

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Respected Umesh Bhai,I am highly obliged for your valuable inputs particularly for clearing my doubts about "Ilm-samudrik" and "Ilm-e-samudrik" with the reference of "Mausauf Siffat" or 'Izaffat". But there is another compound word "Ilm-Qyafa" frequently used in Lal Kitab, any thought about that?In my humble opinion, The original Urdu editions of Lal Kitab are not written in Persianised or Pakistani Urdu, rather these are written in a localized Punjabi Urdu. It is wrong to compared our own Urdu language with any alien language like Greek as we use more than 25 percent words of Urdu in our day to day workings. Sir,I have no confusion what so ever regarding the word "Bidhata", as it is written exactly in the original book. Since it is a transliterated book - the word "Bidhata" is perfectly OK for me. I dont think referring a dictionary is a

bad idea at all to clarify the things, I always do this whenever in doubt. Moreover, the language of Lal Kitab is not as difficult as being projected.. Further, I think that the correct word is "Zaati" not "Jaati" as mentioned by you. I have already clarified my stand regarding the point of value for money, What a reader wants to read largely depends upon his/her own choice and capability, I would always prefer to read the correct text, no matter whether it is printed on the costly imported sheets or on a tissue paper. As far as my good friend Pt. LK Vashishat ji is concerned, his knowledge of Urdu and Persian is an open secret. we have already seen his capabilities in LK-1941 translated by him in September 2004. I wish him good luck for the future projects. I pray from the deepest of my heart that May God almighty and Pundit jee give you and Vashishat ji strength so that you can give us 100% accurate translations of all 5 editions of Lal

Kitab.RespectfullyYograj Prabhakar--- On Mon, 15/12/08, Umesh Sharma <mudit982001 wrote:Umesh Sharma <mudit982001[lalkitab] Re: LalKitab 1942lalkitab Date: Monday, 15 December, 2008, 8:08 PM

 

Respected Parbhakarji, Thanks for the pains you took in giving reply of my quires. As you said that you are not writing this message to defend or offend anyone, I think that what so ever I said were my own views and not meant to criticize Goswamiji. I again humbly submit that I do not know Urdu which you have are reiterating. Yes, the message was being written with the help of one of my friends who happens to be professor in Dept of Urdu Jamia Millia Islamia Delhi.Sir, by telling the definition of "Mausauf Siffat" or 'Izaffat" I do not want to impose my knowledge of Urdu on you. These are simple grammatical terms which are part of the beginning of Urdu grammar. "Mausauf Siffat" or 'Izaffat" are the formation which gives the impression of "of" or relationship with the subject. Here Subject is ilm and predicate is samudirk. The right

compound word is Ilm-e-Samudrik. Sir, with regards to the word bidhata I would like to say that there is no word in Hindi known as bidhata. As per my knowledge, Vidhata is a Hindi word not Urdu, which should be written as per the parameters of Hindi language. This was the point where you fail to understand. Regarding the word, tarmem Sudha, I have explained the meaning to you earlier. Of course, pandit ji had never said about it. Tarmem Sudha means that the book carries no correction and no errata are required for the book. By just writing the word "tarmemsudha" by the learned translator of 1942 edition, readers may be mislead as they were mislead in 1939 edition whose errata was published with 1940 edition. Sir, the readers wants to read the material of Lal Kitab 1942 edition in easy and lucid language and not about what is written on line 10 page 11 etc.Sir, the Urdu written in Lal

kitab is Persianised Urdu which is known as Pakistani Urdu and I think it is Greek for the most of the persons who would read it. I do not think that after shelling out nearly four hundred rupees, the person will not get full value for the money just because he/she gets a near transliteration of the original scripture which is just like ½ kg bundle of 40 gms. paper quality for him due to lack of knowledge of Urdu which is written in the book. What is the use of giving the list of meaning of difficult words? It means the person has to refer the dictionary every time he switches to the next page. Why the book is not translated in such a manner that it gives full value of the money to the readers. As regards to word jati it is nothing but jaati which is purely a Hindi word which means "personal". Sir, I would really appreciate that you will read the whole book thoroughly and minutely, and will definitely point out the errors and inform the fellow mates and the translator even after your pre-occupation with your work. I very much agree with you that Shir L.K.Vashisth started translating the 1942 edition of LK1942 some 4/5 years back as he is the only translator, as per my knowledge he is post graduate in Urdu-Arabic from an esteemed University, among the translator of Lal kitab. This thing was disclosed by him at Delhi during the programme which was also attended by you. I would like to seek his services in this regard if he gives his consent. Yes, with his help I would like to give the 100% accurate translation to all, yes not transliteration, which would serve the value for the money of the readers.Thanks/Regards Umesh Sharmalalkitab, Yograj Prabhakar <yr_prabhakar@ ...> wrote:>> Respected Umesh Bhai,> > First of all, I would humbly like to clarify that I am not writing this message to defend or offend anyone and these are strictly my personal views. Secondly, I strongly object to the statement that you do not know Urdu. The message is so precise that it seems to be written by none other than a prominent Urdu knowing person. > > Sir, thanks for the definition of "Mausauf Siffat" or 'Izaffat". Please confirm whether the correct word is Ilm-Samudrik or Ilm-e-samudik, so that I may correct myself because what is written in the books (I may be wrong) is Ilm-Samudrik not Ilm-e-Samudrik.> > In the oroginal book, the

word on page no. 1 line no 10 is "bidhata". So I fail to understand where is the confusion. Your good-self has further asked that How the readers would know what is the "Tarmeem" is done in the book. In this regard I would like to ask you, did Pundit ji ever mentioned about this in any of his book? If the answer is no, then how can any person knows about that? I request you to share the secret behind this mystical word. > > As far as the value of money is concerned, What else a reader can ask for if he/she gets a near transliteration of the original scripture? I would spent twenty time more for such a book. But I feel that a proper list with simple meanings of difficult words should have been included at the end of the book so the the confusing words like Jati could have been clarified.> > As advised by your good-self I will read the whole book thoroughly and> minutely, and will definitely point out the errors and

inform the> fellow mates and the author as I have also found some spelling and> grammatical errors in the book.      > > > The monumental task of translating the original Urdu editions of Lal Kitab was initiated by Shri LK Vashishat ji with LK-1942 about 4-5 years back. We started with a 60-70% accuracy level in the beginning, the accuracy level has crossed the 95-96% mark within the short span for 2-3 years. Maybe we will see the 100% accurate transliterations/ translations in the coming years.. > > > Respectfully> Yograj Prabhakar> > > > > --- On Sat, 13/12/08, Umesh Sharma mudit982001@ ... wrote:> Umesh Sharma mudit982001@ ...> [lalkitab] LalKitab 1942> lalkitab> Saturday, 13 December, 2008, 7:51 PM> > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Prabhakar ji > I appreciate the labor you took in going through 384 pages lengthy book even after your preoccupation with your work.. Prabhakart ji, I would like to know one thing from you, that a reader who is shelling out Rs. 375/- to purchase this book, of course, he also deserves of full amount of material in this regard. > Prabhakar ji, I think you have gone through the book keeping in view the contents in hindi as well as in Urdu. I do not know Urdu but as you have commented in 1939 edition of Lak-KItab it shows your command over Urdu, Hats Off, you have translated 1941 edition of LalKitab which is known as "Gutka". > Sir, while going through Urdu qvayed(Grammer) there is a sentence formation for compound words which is known as "Mausauf Siffat" or 'Izaffat". Sir, if one has to make compound words he has to use "Izaffat". >

         The Title compound word "Ilam Samudrik" does not qualify the parameters laid down for "Izaffat", as far as my knowledge is concerned. I request your good self to plz comment over it. > There are other words written in the book, say 10th line of page no. 1 "Bidhatha" and so others which are above my comprehension. The same fate might be of other words when the reades will go through the book, I wish. Prabhakar ji, I think this book is meant for commercial purposes and not to confer any award on sh. Goswami ji for his services to the promotion of Urdu in transliteration form Govt. Sir, the list may prolong if I give you page by page errors in the book, hence,  I would rather like to stick to the cover page of the book which clearly makes fool of the readers by not differentiating between "Ilam" and "Ilme". > Prabhakar ji, the other word is "Tarmeem Shudha" which

means "corrections" or "corrigendum" . Sir, when the edition is of 1942 how come the "Tarmeem" word is highlighted by Goswami ji. How the readers would know what is the "Tarmeem" is done in the book. > Prabhakar ji, your comments are highly solicited in this regard but for God sake plz go through the whole book first as you are learned personality in the field of LalKitab and your review, Â if done in the parameters, Â as suggested to you, Â would mean some thing for the group members. > However, I am on the job in going through the book and would come out with some more problems of the books such as page no. xii para 4 the word "Jati".. I Â don't know it means going or personal. >

                                                                         Thanks/Regards >

                                                                          Umesh Sharma >  >  >      >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your

messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger. / invite/>

 

Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Dear Shri Nirmal Kumar ji,

I too have received my VPP few days ago.

Here I wouldlike to mention that I personally have books worth Rs. 6000- + on just Lal Kitab written by various authors, but explanation is missing in most books. Perhap I may not be able to understand, is what must be the right way to put it.

What is needed is a Big Volume, a hard work or a Life time work, by a well known exponent of Lal Kitab in the present day, for instance Shri Yograjji Prabhakar, or someone equally good like him, who will put the Farmans as it is written , alongwith his own commentary and explanation with examples, in simple language, maybe Hindi or English. This book or Volume may take 3 parts and total maybe 2000 pages does not matter, but at least be able enough to render the meaning and the application part , properly in a understanding way, to the reader interested in practising Lalkitab principles.

Most of the books available today are not worth commenting about, and neither easy to understand, I am sorry to say, but thats what I experience. I may be wrong in this statement. For instance, we need examples of Varsha charts calculated, monthly charts calculated and explanation of predictions and remedial measures given in the book. We need to know the principles through logic ( Wherever we can ), and not by just parrot reading.

Which is why i was suggesting a pool of funds to a proper gentleman so that he could use his time, and we could give him a value for his precious time spent on the same.

I found a very good book by Shri R.S. Chillar who stays in Rohtak, who is a aged person but his book is fantastic for laymen like me to understand and priced well compared to the volumes of knowledge given in the book. This book too contains many mistakes as all Lal Kitab re-transliterations have too, and this book has also got some examples of charts, but again I find many important aspects missing, yet would say, is the best available so far in my possession.

best wishes,

Bhaskar.

 

, "Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj" <nirbhar wrote:>> Dear Members,> I received my VPP of 1942 book today. Pt. Beni Madhav Goswami Ji's efforts> are worth praising. This book was very difficult to adjust in normal book> shape. This is because of the denseness in written material in each lines.> Barring the qualiity of paper used and the absence of hard bound material ,> rest is termed as worth. Though printing error is there and few places wrong> words are written but that may be attributed to the ignorance of dialact of> the language used in the book, with this voluminous text such errors are> ignorable and can be corrected by Publisher in due course.> I congratulate Pt. Goswami ji and all others associated with this project.> Wish that last book in this series(1952 edition) from Pt. Goswami ji shall> be a master piece and unique one.> Regards> Nirmal>

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Dear Bhaskar Ji,Your Idea is good. I wish some one must come forward to take this huge task.I would like to contribute in in this task also.RegardsNirmalOn Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Bhaskar <rajiventerprises wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Shri Nirmal Kumar ji,

I too have received my VPP few days ago.

Here I wouldlike to mention that I personally have books worth Rs. 6000- + on just Lal Kitab written by various authors, but explanation is missing in most books. Perhap I may not be able to understand, is what must be the right way to put it.

What is needed is a Big Volume, a hard work or a Life time work, by a well known exponent of Lal Kitab in the present day, for instance Shri Yograjji Prabhakar, or someone equally good like him, who will put the Farmans as it is written , alongwith his own commentary and explanation with examples, in simple language, maybe Hindi or English. This book or Volume may take 3 parts and total maybe 2000 pages does not matter, but at least be able enough to render the meaning and the application part , properly in a understanding way, to the reader interested in practising Lalkitab principles.

Most of the books available today are not worth commenting about, and neither easy to understand, I am sorry to say, but thats what I experience. I may be wrong in this statement. For instance, we need examples of Varsha charts calculated, monthly charts calculated and explanation of predictions and remedial measures given in the book. We need to know the principles through logic ( Wherever we can ), and not by just parrot reading.

Which is why i was suggesting a pool of funds to a proper gentleman so that he could use his time, and we could give him a value for his precious time spent on the same.

I found a very good book by Shri R.S. Chillar who stays in Rohtak, who is a aged person but his book is fantastic for laymen like me to understand and priced well compared to the volumes of knowledge given in the book. This book too contains many mistakes as all Lal Kitab re-transliterations have too, and this book has also got some examples of charts, but again I find many important aspects missing, yet would say, is the best available so far in my possession.

best wishes,

Bhaskar.

 

, " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " <nirbhar wrote:>> Dear Members,> I received my VPP of 1942 book today. Pt. Beni Madhav Goswami Ji's efforts

> are worth praising. This book was very difficult to adjust in normal book> shape. This is because of the denseness in written material in each lines.> Barring the qualiity of paper used and the absence of hard bound material ,

> rest is termed as worth. Though printing error is there and few places wrong> words are written but that may be attributed to the ignorance of dialact of> the language used in the book, with this voluminous text such errors are

> ignorable and can be corrected by Publisher in due course.> I congratulate Pt. Goswami ji and all others associated with this project.> Wish that last book in this series(1952 edition) from Pt. Goswami ji shall

> be a master piece and unique one.> Regards> Nirmal>

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