Lal Kitab Discussion Group Results of Sarini Verification

October 23, 2007

Dear Iqbal Ji,

I have still not recieved the birth details. Please resend it.

regards

Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

, punjabilovebug wrote:

>

> Dear Nirmal Bhai,

>

> Two weeks ago you asked me for my birth details - can you please

update us on your analysis as it relates to Lagna Sarini?

>

> Why when using Lagna Sarini remedies for my 31st year was I

unsuccessful?

>

> Why when using the remedies using my foreign birth varshphal was I

successful and problems solved?

>

> Please craft your message to these two points. Others have simply

blamed me but I am no idiot - I know my pains and challenges this

varshphala nd how only after using the non-Lagna Sarini approach I

was successful.

>

> It begs to ask the question of other members when they have claimed

90% success when using this Lagna Sarini 100% of the time:

>

> How do they determine success? I trust it is not just because they

are making money in the process...or is it?

>

> Best Regards,

> Iqbal Bhai

> USA

> Sent via Blackberry

>

> NKB <nirbhar

>

> Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:01:28

> To:0Zj28LCYuRdyCgr7QGsYM

> Cc: ,

, lalkitab

> Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Results of Sarini

Verification

>

> Dear Iqbal Ji,

> You earlier sent this message six times. and is not approved. You

are a senior member that is why I have not rejected that message. but

Now I am sorry that I have to take this step.

> Iqbal Bhai, group is meant for discussion on specific issues

related to astrology dictats. Your these mails have nothing for the

members to discuss except describing your personal relations (good/

bad) with one of our senior members.

> Regarding Lagan Sarni , write or wrong, None of the members

including you has given any technical /solid

reasons to prove your point except Bhooshan Priya Ji, Shukla ji,

Varun Trivedi,MiglaniJi, Kalsi Ji and me who have discussed it

mathematically.

> Iqbal Ji You even did not even read the Lagan Sarni nor you

used it to make your Kundli yourself with this sarni. What point do you think w\

e discuss in this mail.

> You consulted Bhatia Ji or Somnath Ji, and paid money , it is your

personnel matter. There remedies work or not it is again the matter

between the client and server. Group will not involve itself in this

controversy.

> Bring some technical point regarding the wrong data in the sarni

that too with factual calculation, I will be the first person to

discuss the issue with you.Because group members will gain from such

type of discussions.

> But for the Group Sake please settle your individual Ranjish at

your end , donot involve group in to it.

>

> Iqbal Bhai, though discussions some time become hot but that is a

temporary moment and members recover it quickly. We love each and

every member of our group You are also one of them.

Please dont take rejection on the negative side. since you have

posted this message in other groups so i have to forward this

messsage to clarify group's stand.

> Let keep our attention on other issues of LalKitab.Sarni is

just a helping tool like a computer software. Let it be for the

person who use it. Since you,

I and most of our members donot use this sarni, and we have other better means t\

hen let this discussion be amongst the few mad people including me,

you are welcome to be part of this mad group but with certain

technical/mathematical points.

>

> Regards

>

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

> punjabilovebug@ <punjabilovebug

> girish_raheja@ <girish_raheja .co.in

,varun_trvd (AT) (DOT) <varun_trvd co.in

> Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:19:26 +0000

> Fw: Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Results of Sarini

Verification

>

> This is the posting Nirmal Ji has censored so that other forum

members may not know the truth of this debate.

>

> Dozens and dozens of people who supported me against the tirade of

those who consider themselved " holier than thou " have also seen this

posting.

>

> Nirmal Bhai what is untruthful in the posting below that you did

not post it? It is 100% my own experience - why be afraid of the

truth respected Bhai?

>

> On one hand we want the truth and on the second hand you refrain

from sharing it.

>

> Best Regards,

> Iqbal

> USA

>

> Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:23:59

> To:@ <>

> Re: Re: Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re:

Conrtoversy over Lagan Sarnee SOLVED FOR IQBAL

>

> Dear Nirmal Bhai,

>

> Please ensure your usage of examples with real upayes prescribed

for the issues being faced once the Sarine approach has been applied

for foreign births.

>

> It has been one week and I have been hoping for a response from

Yograj Bhai but he is being silent on the issues of providing

examples of where he himself has used this lagna sarini with success.

>

> Yograj Bhai please come forward and enlighten the group on your

application of this approach which you defended as pseudo-

intelligencia in your last post. Please don't be shy and illustrate

your points with examples for the benefits of all involved.

>

> Nirmal Bhai please use examples of where you may have applied this

approach with success.

>

> The reason why Pandit Ji's family has not released the notes and

writings of Pandit Ji's own research is because (and I heard this

with my own ears) they wanted to make money through LK and felt their

father (Pandit Ji) made a grave mistake in publishing the LK in the

marketplace. They view any knowledge and research as their own

prerogative free to charge for it or prevent the public from having

it to boost their own place within the LK community. Suddenly it

becomes an issue of having " secret " or " unpublished " documents of

Pandit Ji which means that the public should give them attention for

they may have critical ideas and applications that are secret. This

is their Modus Operandi and indeed also the one being used by forum

members who are not sharing these writings, notes or thoughts with

the broader LK community.

>

> Nirmal Ji - Do you know that when Pandit Ji's own son cast my

kundli using this approach he came up with different results than

Rajinder Bhatia? He is the one Bhatia Ji asks to look at his own

tewas and for coaching on analyzing other peoples tewas as well. So I

visited him and much to my surprise none of his statements about my

personal family or situation were true - but he claimed they had to

be true. Was I supposed to lie and just accept his inaccuracies or

try to uncover why this Lagna Sarini approach doesn't work for

foreign births?

>

> Then Rajinder Bhatia applied this approach and got different result

from Pandit Ji's son in Toronto. Yet both claim this approach is

infallible!! Then why can't they achieve similar results if this is

supposed to be an unspoken truth?

>

> Then, Rajinder Bhatia was unable to find any indiciation of

problems I was facing from my kundli when using this approach. He

even told me that I think your Venus is indeed in the 6th meaning my

foreign birth chart and corresponding varshphal was indeed VALID.

>

> Now instead of allowing my post to publish he wrote a tirade where

he not only tried to mask his own insecurities on this issue of Lagna

Sarini but questioned why I wasn't blaiming the doctors for my health

issues being faced.

>

> When I asked him to look at my kundli he told me I know you may be

in pain but it would have to wait as he was writing an introduction

to the recent publication on LK. His own desire to publish his

thoughts became the prima facie instead of his desire to help someone

in distress. Then, in his last posting on this topic he said many

things in capitalized letters which broke the rules in the forum. I

have not responded to that post because of its sheer insulting nature

- If we was a decent man he would not have written such rubbish.

>

> He even disclosed the personal details of his client (me) to

thousands of people in the forum. What to say about moral

responsibility or even common decency? I am perplexed why he needs to

resort to shouting in his posts (through capitalized letters)

breaking the protocol of the forum. He should step down as forum

moderator becuase of these actions alone. Had it been anyone else he

would have claimed them to be anti-LK. He also told me he also uses a

Vedic astrologer for his own family so why has he criticized learned

members for their postings on links between Vedic and LK priciples?

What a double-standard!! Why not preach what one teaches?

>

> He himself couldn't find out which remedies to apply and rapidly

refunded my money of $100. Jokingly he remarked on how he wasn't in

LK for the money - at least not yet. Then in his post he told me the

last of my concerns should be Lagna Sarini. Is this the language and

approach of someone who practices LK? Does this behaviour show

respect or consideration for LK values and techniques or even for

forum members?

>

> Then Yograj Ji you make a post where you hail him as a philosopher

and friend - Who cares? We want to see examples and evidence of his

claimed approach using Lagna Sarini but instead you want to

personalize the discussion to distract from the debate. Forum members

are not that dumb so please don't treat them that way as it is very

condascending.

>

> I have Mercury in 5th house and was so hurt and dismayed by this

experience with him that I wanted to voice some ill words which I was

confident would come true. However, then there would be no difference

between him and me and I opted to preserve moral authority and let

God himself deal with him in accordance with how he mistreated me.

>

> GOOD NEWS!!! When I decided not to listen to Rajinder Bhatia's ill-

intended propoganda and applied remedies for Venus/Rahu in 4th house

of varshphal my health issues were discovered by doctors and

medication given. It has now been 4 weeks of taking this medication

and my digestive and nerve problems are gone. I thank God for giving

me the strength to persevere in practical terms to find out through

LK why my issue was being faced and how it could be fixed.

>

> I want to thank all those forum members from around the world who

wrote me to provide support for my desire to practically reap the

benefits of varshphal remedies to fix problems. There is no need to

indulge in intellectual gymnastics if there is no practical

application. I had asked for examples dozens of time but nobody

including Bhatia Ji who claims to use this approach 100% of the time

shared them. Yograj Bhai instead of labelling discourse in this forum

as useless please share your examples.

>

> I thank Vipin Shukla, Bhooshan Priya Ji, Kulbir Paji and Miglani

SahibN Nirmal Ji and the dozens of others who also did not accept the

propogandabeing circulated and supported me. This is the true spirit

of Lal Kitab.

>

> For the record, my varshphal using my foreign location was as

followed:

>

> 1-Moon

> 2-Ketu

> 4-Venus/Rahu

> 7-Jupiter

> 9-Sun/Mercury/Mars

> 11-Saturn

>

> I applied remedies for Venus/Rahu, Jupiter and Saturn and within 2

weeks doctors uncovered that toxins in my body were causing these

digestive ailments. Thankfully I am doing much better now but only

after using my foreign-birth varshphal without any re-calculations to

Madras or elsewhere.

>

> Best Regards,

> Iqbal

> USA

>

October 23, 2007

Dear Nirmal Bhai,

Forward to our conversation please use the following birth details to determine

the accuracy of the Lagna Sarini:

Place: Toronto, Canada

Time: 21:43pm

September 27 1976

Members who claimed to use the Lagna came up with two different lagnas, the

first being Tula and the second being Kanya after applying the Lagna Sarini.

Second part is to take varshphal for 31st year and to see how digestion or nerve

problems issue should be resolved.

I have sent the note to you already which you continue to censor despite its

factual evidence in terms of why using the Lagna Sarini failed. Since it has

failed the astrologers who claimed success have been silent and without remorse.

When you use foreign chart you see indication of nerve problems yet when you use

Lagna Sarini (as confirmed by those that tried to use Lagna Sarini) there is no

indication of these problems.

They blamed me not their own inabilities to correctly apply remedies for

benefit. Then with my response I showed all evidence and methodology I stepped

through - a posting which you continue to censor and suggest I should resolve

offline despite there being no logical reason for me to abandon the forum on the

practical application and this Sarini.

In my personal case it failed because the lagna should be Vrishab not Tula or

Kanya and it is using Vrishab lagna and 31st varshphal that remedies were

applied which were successful.

Why do you continue to try to insulate and detract attention from the

inaccuracies of those astrologers who previously states claims of 95% success?

Did you ask them for evidence of this claim? No - so now under cross-examination

of their claim with facts you should not deny these postings and resultingly

exhibit partilality or open favoritism for those accused of misleading the forum

on the issue of Lagna Sarini.

My hope is that nobody else suffers like I did with these individuals own

methodologies, in line with the true spirit of Lal Kitab.

Best Regards,

Iqbal

Sent via Blackberry

" Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " <nirbhar

Tue, 23 Oct 2007 16:49:17

Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Results of Sarini

Verification

Dear Iqbal Ji,

Since lot of data is provided in the sarni to check and verify hence

we will check the lagan sarni itself before coming to any conclusion.

If the timing given in the sarni are correct then any further action

will be required otherwise it will be not be of no use.I wish you

take the charge of data provided for April month and work on it and

submit you finding. I am working on March.

Regards

Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

@ <%40> ,

punjabilovebug wrote:

>

> Also Bhai why too have you not provided any real tewa examples on

the topic?

>

> I am helping this forum uncover riddles from fact or fiction.

Anything you would assume to be less than that would take away from

the good graces you have shown in the past as moderator.

>

> When the debate with Lagna Sarini has been started in the forum why

would I finish it outside? When claims of 100% usage and 90% success

have been claimed in the forums (and you have allowed it to be

posted) why would - not challenge them in the forum?

>

> Your logic does not hold true. When the issue is about Lagna Sarini

and the issue is in the forum then please don't provide cryptic or

unhelpful musings.

>

> How do you know what materials I have or don't have at my disposal?

Have you ever asked me? Then why assume and embarass yourself in

doing so? Did you care to ask me as to the Urdu scholar I pay for

understanding some of the original LK volumes or the Urdu courses I

have taken to improve my fluency? No you do not so please don't

attempt to assume you know anything about what I have read or not.

>

> You should concern yourself with showing evidence of your implicit

support of Lagna Sarini using real examples as I have.

>

> Best Regards,

> Iqbal Bhai

> USA

>

> Sent via Blackberry

>

> NKB <nirbhar

>

> Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:01:28

> To:0Zj28LCYuRdyCgr7QGs <0Zj28LCYuRdyCgr7QGsYM%40>

YM

> Cc:@ <%40> ,

<%40>

@, lalkitab@ <lalkitab%40> s.com

> Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Results of

Sarini Verification

>

> Dear Iqbal Ji,

> You earlier sent this message six times. and is not approved. You

are a senior member that is why I have not rejected that message. but

Now I am sorry that I have to take this step.

> Iqbal Bhai, group is meant for discussion on specific issues

related to astrology dictats. Your these mails have nothing for the

members to discuss except describing your personal relations (good/

bad) with one of our senior members.

> Regarding Lagan Sarni , write or wrong, None of the members

including you has given any technical /solid

reasons to prove your point except Bhooshan Priya Ji, Shukla ji,

Varun Trivedi,MiglaniJi, Kalsi Ji and me who have discussed it

mathematically.

> Iqbal Ji You even did not even read the Lagan Sarni nor you

used it to make your Kundli yourself with this sarni. What point do you think w\

e discuss in this mail.

> You consulted Bhatia Ji or Somnath Ji, and paid money , it is your

personnel matter. There remedies work or not it is again the matter

between the client and server. Group will not involve itself in this

controversy.

> Bring some technical point regarding the wrong data in the sarni

that too with factual calculation, I will be the first person to

discuss the issue with you.Because group members will gain from such

type of discussions.

> But for the Group Sake please settle your individual Ranjish at

your end , donot involve group in to it.

>

> Iqbal Bhai, though discussions some time become hot but that is a

temporary moment and members recover it quickly. We love each and

every member of our group You are also one of them.

Please dont take rejection on the negative side. since you have

posted this message in other groups so i have to forward this

messsage to clarify group's stand.

> Let keep our attention on other issues of LalKitab.Sarni is

just a helping tool like a computer software. Let it be for the

person who use it. Since you,

I and most of our members donot use this sarni, and we have other better means t\

hen let this discussion be amongst the few mad people including me,

you are welcome to be part of this mad group but with certain

technical/mathematical points.

>

> Regards

>

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

> punjabilovebug@ <punjabilovebug

> girish_raheja@ <girish_raheja .co.in

,varun_trvd (AT) (DOT) <varun_trvd co.in

> Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:19:26 +0000

> Fw: Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Results of Sarini

Verification

>

> This is the posting Nirmal Ji has censored so that other forum

members may not know the truth of this debate.

>

> Dozens and dozens of people who supported me against the tirade of

those who consider themselved " holier than thou " have also seen this

posting.

>

> Nirmal Bhai what is untruthful in the posting below that you did

not post it? It is 100% my own experience - why be afraid of the

truth respected Bhai?

>

> On one hand we want the truth and on the second hand you refrain

from sharing it.

>

> Best Regards,

> Iqbal

> USA

>

> Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:23:59

> To:@ <To:@

<%40> >