Lal Kitab Discussion Group [lalkitab] Lagan Sarni- Attention Nirmal Ji

[Guest guest]

Dear Miglani Ji,I have heard too much of about this lagan Sarni and but able to get 10 pages only. These pages does not speak much of this lagan Sarni. Even the page which gives the year of publication is not available in these pages. I shall be obliged if anyone send the complete sarni to me. In fact I could not find the words " LalKitab Lagan Sarni " in these pages. I feel this name is given to this sarni just now. Secondly Lot of lagan Sarnis always are calculated and printed with a particular place. There is no uniform code of conduct for printing these Sarnis. Therefore it is left only to publisher/printer. It is not mandatory for any publisher to give whole lot of data mere for a lagan sarni. Even in very famous panchangs which publish Lagan sarni for different Cities today sometime left these minutes details assuming that astrologer might be knowing these small factors.

it is the first most lesson taught to an astrologer - how to calculate an ascendant with different locations all over the world. I don't know why the experienced astrologers making hue and cry mere that method is not given in the sarni . If an astrologer cannot workout the ascendant of a foriegn birth from a given lagan sarni then it is not the fault of lagan Sarni.

it is shows the Nalayqi of that very astrologer who forgot the first lesson of his profession. It might be graceful for him to explain " Look I have added my experience in this Lagan Sarni. I am giving method of calculate ascendent of foriegn birth with this lagan sarni "

Further more there are many other lagan sarni are available use them. Nobody asked any astrologer that why he is using 'Table of Ascendant', 'Software' or any other mean. It is only upto the astrologer convenience to use whatsoever he likes. .

You are right to the extent that one cannot find a Lagna for 50 north latitude from the not only with 'your called Lal Kitab Lagna sarini' but also from any other lagan sarnis published in India

.. He has to use some other tables either be given in that lagan sarni or from 'Table of ascendant' or a software or his own intelligence to find a Lagna for any other place. Regarding the place for which the Lal Kitab lagna sarini is drawn I cannot comment as i have not full sarni but comment to the extent that words are written in that sarni Lagan Sarni (Madras Time.) and conflicting view are received from fellow members regarding the year and place for which the sarni is based.

Miglani ji, we know that in LalKitab system of astrology, correction is required to be applied even if one calculate the ascendant with the most accurate means. Therefore these minor topics does not require much attention, rather the basic goals of the LalKitab Groups is being set aside due to these altercations.

Let us work on to the other issues related to the LalKitab which are still to unsolved.RegardsNirmal Kumar BhardwajOn 10/11/07, kpmiglani <

kpmiglani wrote:

Dear Nirmal ji, I had been using the Lahiri tables for decades to work out the ascendant and the MC. I switched over to the software just a few years ago. Therefore I am very well familiar with it as also with ST. You know very well that one can not find a Lagna for 50 north latitude from the so called Lal Kitab Lagna sarini. He has to use some other tables of ascendant or a software to find a Lagna for any other place other than 82E0 and 26N0 for which the Lal Kitab lagna sarini is drawn for. I think it would be better that you stop defending some thing which is undefendable. Sincerely, KP Miglani lalkitab

, NKB <nirbhar wrote: > > Respected Miglani ji, > Thanks for correcting me. i was in the opinion that it was invented by > Lahiri from its Name.Generally

the inventor remains anonymous to the world > as in this case. > Miglani ji, finding correction > coefficient is little bit tricky. You know the ascendent changes as > the sidereal time. ascendent is given in under

> tables in the last pages for each latitude for 0 > hours to 23 hours sidereal time. from here one can calculate the > differnece of ascendent between > lattitudes.SInce this type of tables are of less use now a days, but one > should be familiar with the working of these tables. i reccomend for general > users to start calculating difference through normal astrology programm by > changing the value of lattitude gradually from 0N0-0 to 60N0-0.

> Regards > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj > > On 10/10/07, kpmiglani <kpmiglani wrote: > > > > > > Dear Nirmal Kumar ji,

> > > > The lahiri Ayanansh that you have mentioned was not found out by > > shri NC Lahiri. It was worked out by a renowned Maharashtrian > > astrologer named Pt. Ketkar. This ayanansh is technically known as > > Ketaki Chitra paksheeya ayanansh, meaning the ayanash evolved by > > Pt.Ketkar which is based on the nakshtra star Chitra. > > NC Lahiri, was a member of the Rashtriya Panchang Samiti, created by > > Nehru ji to formulate our national panchang. Shri Lahiri suggested > > that the Ketkar ayanansh be accepted as the most accurate ayanansh. > > The commitee accepted the ayanansh as the official ayanansh to be

> > used in Rashtriya Panchang. It was since then it came to be known as > > Lahiri ayanansha. > > > > As regards your mention of correction for Latitude given in Lahiri

> > Table of Ascendants, do you know it requires to measure the distance > > in miles. That correction can be used only for places situated > > within a few miles on either side of the Latitude on which the

> > readings from the Table of ascendants has been taken. For example > > you can find out the lagna at Mohali if you know the Lagna at > > Chandigarh by incorporating the corrections found from the table

> > given by Lahiri. > > > > But suppose you have the Lagna at madras and you have to find the > > Lagna at Toronto, then in order to incorporate the difference you > > have to work out the distance in miles from Delhi to Toronto and

> > then work out the diagonal of it. If you think it is easy and > > practical to do you are most welcome. > > > > I think using the available softwares would be the most acceptable

> > thing. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > KP Miglani > > > >

lalkitab <lalkitab%40>, NKB > > <nirbhar@> wrote:

> > > > > > Dear Shukla Ji & Miglani Ji, > > > It is a bigger subject and cannot be discussed in mails and is not > > the topic > > > of LalKitab. We may discuss whenever I happens to be in Ambala.

> > > Shukla Ji is great astronomer apart from his profficiency in > > Astrology > > > too and does not require any book, but for members like me I > > > reccomend the book 'Table of Ascendent " written by non

> > > other than Mr. NC Lahiri, Ganitacharya & Ganita > > > Kalanidhi, A noted astronomer, whose invented aayaansha is being > > used > > > officially by Govt. Of India and almost all the panchangs are being > > > prepared on this ayaansha. > > > All the doubts regarding preparartion of Ascendent for any place in > > > the world will surely be removed with the help of this book.

> > > Regarding Latitudinal corrections , it is a matter of seconds to > > calculate > > > the corrections with the help of 'Table of > > > Ascendents'. As far as remember, yearly ephemeris, published by

> > > Lahiri, also gives the method of calculation latitudinal > > corrections > > > For ease of the other > > > members,I am preparing ready reckoner for latitudinal

corrections > > > based upon this book > > > and will upload > > > shortly. This correction is near to accurate and the variation > > will be > > > in minutes which does not make any difference as far as LalKitab is > > > concerned. > > > > > > Regards > > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj > > > On 10/8/07, kpmiglani <kpmiglani@> wrote: > > > >

> > > > Dear Sirs, > > > > > > > > Pt Lalkitabee ji has raised a very crucial issue, which needs to > > be > > > > answered by any one who is using the so called Lal Kitab Lagna > > > > sarini. > > > > > > > > As he has rightly pointed out that the Longitude can be corrected > > > > through the time difference, but how would one incorporate the > > > > Latitude difference? > > > > > > > > Any one familiar with Jyotish ganit knows that the Latitude > > > > correction can not be carried out unless one is familiar with the > > > > concept of `Palabha' , how to calculate it, and then how to apply > > > > the calculated `Palabha' result to the Latitude on which the > > Sarini

> > > > has been drawn. > > > > > > > > Expecting an answer from those who claim that they have been > > using > > > > the Lal Kitab Sarini. > > > >

> > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > KP Miglani > > > > > > > >

lalkitab <lalkitab% 40><lalkitab% > >

40>, " lalkitabee " > > > > <lalkitabee@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Respected Nirmal Bhardwaj JI > > > > > Main aapki ek mail main lagan sarani se sambandhit mail ko padh > > > > raha > > > > > thaa. Aapne Surya siddhant ka jikra bhi kiya hai. To main yah > > > > spasht > > > > > karnaa chahoonga ki Lagn vagairah nikalne ke liye hee surya

> > > > siddhant > > > > > aur Grah Laghav jaise anmol granthon ka istemaal kiyaa jaataa > > hai. > > > > > Palbhaa ke aadhaar par Velantar ka shodhan kartey hue Sayan

> > Surya > > > > > nikaaltey hue usmain se ayanansh ko ghataa kar Nirayan lagan > > praapt > > > > > kee jaatee hai. Is main palabha,lankodayaman, ayanansha

> > vagairah > > > > ka > > > > > janana > > > > > zaroori hota hai. > > > > > Saayan Surya har saal 22 december ko Makar raashi par > > > > > pahunchataa hai, lekin nirayan surya ko

> > > > > > > > > > hum maantey hain ki 14 janvari ko makar main pahunchtaa hai. > > goyaa > > > > > makar sankraanti hum 14 > > > > >

> > > > > janvari ko maantey hain. > > > > > saraniyaan Panchangkaar (Experts of Mathematical Astrology) hee > > > > > banaatey hain. Aur yah > > > > >

> > > > > biraadari (Breed) hee jyotish ke ilaakey kee ek alag hee breed > > hai > > > > jo > > > > > ki isi kaam ke liye expert hoti hai. > > > > > Jaisaa ki aap ne kahaa hai ki :-Can these Lagna Sarni (Made In > > > > > India) be used to calculate for foreign > > > > > > > > > > Birth.? > > > > > Answer is yes, provided you have good knowledge of time

> > difference, > > > > > use of Latitude and Longitude in > > > > > > > > > > the calculation of Ascendant. > > > > > > > > > > But Nirmal ji my views are totally different with you.

> > > > > My answer is NO , never. > > > > > Kyonki lagan saarani jis bhee Latitude aur Longitude kee > > > > > buniyaad par banee hoti hai ,vah vahaan > > > > >

> > > > > ya vahaan ke aaspaas ke ilaakey main paidaa huye insaan ke liye > > > > > istemaal kee jaa sakti hai kisi aur > > > > > > > > > > jagah ke liye nahi. Maslan agar saarani Varanasi kee buniyaad > > par > > > > > banee ho to Delhi ke liye istemaal > > > > > > > > > > nahee kee jaa saktee .Aur isi tarah Delhi kee buniyaad par > > banee

> > > > > huyee saarani ko Amritsar main > > > > > > > > > > paidashuda insaano ke liye istemaal nahi kiyaa ja saktaa. > > > > > > > > > > Kisi khaas akshaansh aur deshantar (Latitude aur Longitude) ki > > > > > buniyaad hone ke kaaran banee huyee > > > > > koyee ek saarani kabhee poorey ek desh par bhi lagoo nahi ki ja > > > > > sakti, videsh to bahut door ki baat

> > > > > > > > > > hai. > > > > > Time defference work out kiyaa ja saktaa hai.Lekin akshansh > > > > > (Latitude) ka antar nikaalanaa > > > > >

> > > > > mushkil hai. Amooman panchaang banaaney waley hee kar saktey > > hain. > > > > > Aam jyotishi nahi.Isiliye India > > > > > > > > > > ke kisi bhee jagah kee buniyaad par bani huyee saarani videsh > > main > > > > > paidaa hone waley insaan par > > > > > > > > > > lagoo nahi ho sakti. > > > > > latitude ek ho to longitude ke antar ka fark karke motey taur > > par > > > > > (Sthool roop main) lagan nikaali ja > > > > > > > > > > sakti hai,lekin agar latitude South ya north chala gayaa to > > binaa

> > > > > kisi bhi hisaab (mathemaics) ke lagan > > > > > > > > > > nahi nikaali ja sakti. Chaahey ek nahi 100 lagan saaraniyaan > > bagal > > > > > main rakh lee jaayain. This work

> > > > > > > > > > can be only done by PANCHAANGKAARS. > > > > > As u say :--good knowledge of time difference, use of Latitude > > > > > and Longitude in the calculation of

> > > > > > > > > > Ascendant. > > > > > Meraa jawaab hai ki Longitude ka shodhan (Correction) samay ke > > liye > > > > > kiyaa jaataa hai. Agar hum

> > > > > > > > > > deshantar ka correction pandit ji ke dwara use kee gayee > > saarani > > > > kee > > > > > buniyaad par kar bhee lain ,to

> > > > > > > > > > janm us latitude ka gin liyaa jayegaa jis par yah saarani bani > > > > huyee > > > > > hai. > > > > > Maslan hum Delhi par banee huywee saarani lain aur America ka > > > > > Longitude 85:00 West le lain to > > > > > > > > > > janm ka Longitude to vahi hogaa lekin lagan to Delhi ke > > latitude > > > > 28 N

> > > > > 39 par hee nikalegi .Ab yahaan se US > > > > > > > > > > Canada, England aadi mulk jo ki 50 North latitude ke aaspaas > > hain, > > > > > unke liye hamain saarani main

> > > > > > > > > > kyaa correction karnaa hogaa, yah baat Nirmal Ji ya to aap > > bataa > > > > dain > > > > > ya fir koyee aur. Rahee baat use

> > > > > > > > > > karne ki to yah apnaa personal shauk ya vichar ho saktaa hai. > > > > > Ap ne abhi claim kiya ki ap bina sarini ya ephemeris ke lagna

> > > > > nikalana jante hain to kripaya batayen ki – > > > > > > > > > > Lankodaya maan kya hai aur kaise nikala jata hai? > > > > > Palabha kya hai aur kaise nikali jati hai?

> > > > > Ayanansh nikalne ka formula kya hai jo soorya siddhant mein > > diya > > > > hai? > > > > > Kya-kya steps hote hain lagna nikalne ke? > > > > > Aapke claim ko agar hum sweekaar kar lain to yah baat jahir

> > hotee > > > > > hai ki aap Surya siddhant aur Varahmihir ke Ganit se vaaqif > > hain. > > > > > Agar aisa hai to yakeenan aap yah bhi jaantey hongey ki scale,

> > > > > compass aur pencil ka hee istemaal kartey huye 65 degree ka > > angle > > > > > kaise banayaa ja saktaa hai aur aap to Nirmal ji, Civil Eng. > > bhee

> > > > > hain mujhse adhik gyaan degree aur angles ka hogaa.Agar aap yah > > > > > banaa sakain to saarani ke > > > > > > > > > > mudde par apni raay ko aage jaaree rakhain, agar nahi to is

> > muddey > > > > > par aapkaa kuchh bhi bolnaa > > > > > > > > > > munasib nahi hai.Kyonki inhi angles aur degree ki knowledge ki > > > > > buniyaad par hee Shree Ram ,Krishan aur Guru Nanak ji ke tevey > > bhee > > > > > hamaarey bujurgon ne tayyar kiye they bakaydaa lagan nikaltey > > huye. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Aapka Shubhchintak > > > > > Pt. Lalkitabee > > > > > www.lalkitabee.com > > > > > Mb.9812020001

> > > > > nts <nts%40> <nts%

40>, > > NKB <nirbhar@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Iqbal Ji, > > > > > > I read your posting in other group that you put some mails in > > > > this > > > > > group and > > > > > > is rejected by moderators. As far as I remember group has not > > > > > received any

> > > > > > mail from you in this connection. Regarding moderation of > > mails, > > > > > yes all the > > > > > > mails are being moderated. I have not seen any of the three > > main > > > > > groups of > > > > > > Lalkitab in which mails are not being moderated. I > > > > > > term it as a good practice. This type of censorship is bound > > to > > > > > happen when > > > > > > vested interests with personal odd relationships amongst few > > > > > astrologers > > > > > > start using these platforms to score out their grudge by

> > posting > > > > > their words > > > > > > against each other (Zahira or Poshida). > > > > > > Dear Iqbal Ji, 'Keenha, Lust,jalan, rashk' are the signs of > > Paapi > > > > > planets. > > > > > > If we cannot remove these effects from ourselves, what the > > hell > > > > we, > > > > > so

> > > > > > called Lalkitab Premees/devotees/students, will be doing to > > sort > > > > > out the > > > > > > problems of others. > > > > > > E-groups platforms are modern available resources which can > > be > > > > used > > > > > to > > > > > > create a new generation of astrologers, whose thinking is > > more > > > > > advanced with

> > > > > > respect to present and coming scenarios. It is the best way > > to > > > > > communicate > > > > > > globally. This sort of Censorship is required to keep these > > > > > unscrupulous > > > > > > persons at bay. I request the members to bear this > > censorship. > > > > > > I read the mails of Regarding Lagan Sarni in other groups. I > > > > don't > > > > > know why > > > > > > this hue and cry is being made about this. A astrologer who > > is > > > > well

> > > > > versed > > > > > > with the principals of astronomy will certainly be knowing > > that > > > > > what and how > > > > > > to use these lagan Sarnis even if these are centuries old. > > One > > > > can > > > > > create > > > > > > the kundli of today even with the lagan Sarni is thousands > > years > > > > > old. Many

> > > > > > Astrologers have created the kundlis of Lord Rama/ Krishan/ > > Nanak > > > > > Ji without > > > > > > using these sarnis. How our ancestors create Tevas when

> > there are > > > > > no meaning > > > > > > of printing. > > > > > > Who created these sarnis? These are the the persons from our > > > > > community who

> > > > > > use their calculation and presentation capability and > > present the > > > > > more easy > > > > > > shortcuts for astrologers. How the Computer softwares made, > > this > > > > is > > > > > because > > > > > > of these inteligent brains who give guidance to the software > > > > > engineers.

> > > > > > Can these Lagna Sarni (Made In India) be used to calculate > > for > > > > > foreign > > > > > > Birth.? > > > > > > Answer is yes, provided you have good knowledge of time

> > > > difference, > > > > > use of > > > > > > Latitude and Longitude in the calculation of Ascendant. > > > > > > Respected Bhatia Ji told us that Pandit Ji used Madras Lagan > > > > Sarini > > > > > for > > > > > > Foreign Birth. He himself used this Sarini for calculation of > > > > > Ascendent for

> > > > > > foreign birth. How one can say that this method is wrong > > without > > > > > knowing > > > > > > that How Pandit Ji/Bhatia Ji used this sarini and for which > > > > country > > > > > and what > > > > > > sort of correction is applied. Pandit Bhushan Priya, A noted > > > > > internet vedic

> > > > > > and Lalkitab Astrologer explained this in detail and even > > pointed > > > > > out that > > > > > > this sarini was made of different Ayaansha (For general

> > > > information > > > > > the > > > > > > different Ayaansha is followed in south astrologers than by > > > > north) > > > > > > Do we think that he cannot do reverse engineering and

> > calculate > > > > the > > > > > > Ascendent of today or even 100 years back with that very > > sarini. > > > > In > > > > > > astrology, this is a beginners' lesson. I remember that when > > we > > > > > used to > > > > > > study in the institute under the guidance of Worthy Dr. Amar > > > > > Aggarwal , we > > > > > > were taught to do the calculation of ascendant even without > > the > > > > > help of > > > > > > Panchangs/lagan Sarni/Ephemeris. > > > > > > Do we think he cannot make the kundli of a foreign birth

> > native > > > > > from this > > > > > > very sarini? Anybody who knows the basics of astronomy and > > Surya > > > > > Sidhant can

> > > > > > calculate the ascendant of any native from any part of the > > world > > > > > from any > > > > > > lagan Sarni of any given place of a particular Time.

> > > > > > Do these critics know that Pandit ji or Bhatia Ji applied/not > > > > > applied the > > > > > > necessary correction for the city with respect to Longitude > > and > > > > > Latitude of > > > > > > the City. > > > > > > This is matter of of detailed discussion, I hope other may > > > > through

> > > > > more > > > > > > light on it. I will try to put detailed method of calculating > > > > > ascendent. It > > > > > > may take time as presently i am very busy with many pther

> > > > projects. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >