Re:varshphal discussion - Aakhree Faisla Kundali

[Guest guest]

Friends, Due to some personal reasons I am not able to actively participate in discussions that have been taking place. I am happy that Kulbir jee is being the catalyst of many of the discussions - thanks Mr. Bains. As far as the "Aakhree Faisla" chart is concerned, we tried to get some guidance from Pt jee many years ago. He said very briefly that we need not worry about this at all and that this is to be used only when it is a matter of life and death and not for any thing else. He stopped abruptly at that and we dared not ask him any more. (I was accompanied by respected Prof Onkar Nath Jee, retired principal SD College Ambala.) So my thinking is that this chart need not be looked at except when special circumstances warrant so. I have used this in post-mortem situations for my own learning purposes but I am not sure if

I got some real use out of it. Incidentally, I was looking at the chart that Umesh jee has used for illustration purposes. I beg to differ on the placement of dhokay ka grah (may I call this the 'Misleading Planet' ?) It is not necessarily true that the misleading planet will prove to be malefic only. It may do double the amount of harm or, may be doubly beneficial. That is why it is called "dhokay ka grah - it may "cheat" in a surprisingly nice way or in a bad way. For determining the misleading planet, the table given in the 1942 Lal Kitab on page 73 should be used. The 53rd year is a special case. For this year, both Mars and Saturn will be written in the tenth house as the misleading planets. This placement will change the interpretation quite a bit. The learned folks may or may not agree with me on this, but I think that the table on page 73 is the

real guide for identifying the misleading planet/s. My apologies to all, my purpose is not to find faults but I just presented my thoughts on this. And if I am wrong, that will neither be the first time, nor the last time (that I have been wrong.) I think we all are trying to make things much harder than they really are. Best wishes to all. Respectfully, Rajinder Bhatia

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out

new cars at Autos.

[Guest guest]

sir, kindly refer to these lines; MAJMOON BAHUT LAMBA CHAURA HONE KI WAJAH SE SIRF UNHI GHATNAON KA ZIKR HAI JO NIHAYAT SANGEEN SHADID, BALKI KHOON SE LIKHE JAANE KE KABIL HON. MAMOMLIYAT YA SADHARAN KASHT KI BAJAI TAPEDIC, MIRGI, ADRANGH , INSAANI... BAKI HAI YA CHALA GAYA KA BYAN KIYA GAYA HAI,.............so are u conveying that pt. ji wanted this book to be used for ordinary affairs. respected sir, ask a man in trouble and every matter for him is a matter of life and death.--- please correct me if i am wrong.

kulbir bains , Rajinder Bhatia <rajinderbhatia2002 wrote:>> Friends,> Due to some personal reasons I am not able to actively participate in discussions that have been taking place. I am happy that Kulbir jee is being the catalyst of many of the discussions - thanks Mr. Bains.> > As far as the "Aakhree Faisla" chart is concerned, we tried to get some guidance from Pt jee many years ago. He said very briefly that we need not worry about this at all and that this is to be used only when it is a matter of life and death and not for any thing else. He stopped abruptly at that and we dared not ask him any more. (I was accompanied by respected Prof Onkar Nath Jee, retired principal SD College Ambala.)> > So my thinking is that this chart need not be looked at except when special circumstances warrant so. I have used this in post-mortem situations for my own learning purposes but I am not sure if I got some real use out of it.> > Incidentally, I was looking at the chart that Umesh jee has used for illustration purposes. I beg to differ on the placement of dhokay ka grah (may I call this the 'Misleading Planet' ?) It is not necessarily true that the misleading planet will prove to be malefic only. It may do double the amount of harm or, may be doubly beneficial. That is why it is called "dhokay ka grah - it may "cheat" in a surprisingly nice way or in a bad way. For determining the misleading planet, the table given in the 1942 Lal Kitab on page 73 should be used. The 53rd year is a special case. For this year, both Mars and Saturn will be written in the tenth house as the misleading planets. This placement will change the interpretation quite a bit. > > The learned folks may or may not agree with me on this, but I think that the table on page 73 is the real guide for identifying the misleading planet/s. My apologies to all, my purpose is not to find faults but I just presented my thoughts on this. And if I am wrong, that will neither be the first time, nor the last time (that I have been wrong.) I think we all are trying to make things much harder than they really are.> > Best wishes to all.> > Respectfully,> Rajinder Bhatia> > > > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?> Check outnew cars at Autos.>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhatia Ji,

 

While I understand the viewpoint you have given I believe that a far more humble

approach by LK practitioners should be implemented.

 

Who are we to determine whether a situation in our views is life or death for

someone in need? A crisis of family, business or personal circumstances demands

our empathy - this is part of the spirit of LK - especially in its most

humanistic and humdardi perspective.

 

Being born in the west I would submit that any of the above issues can lead to a

whole array of situations that could turn into life-death situations. In fact

anxiety and mental tensions are leading to the development of many terminal and

unknown diseases and symptoms.

 

After all many individuals consult LK practitioners not out of desire but

because they don't have any other hope or outlet for someone to help them and

are tired of the dakandari approach taken by many astrologers and wanna-be

tantrics. As such any analysis while it should be structured in both approach

and application should exhaust all measures of trying to help the respective

person and if this includes leveraging akhree-faisla then so be it if it

provides a more vivid capability to satisfy or resolve the dire issues at hand.

 

I would also like to share some thoughts on the various discourses of whether LK

is more applicable than other types of indigenous astrological systems and which

approach is more superior or inferior. I apologize in advance for my weak urdu

but Saleem Bhai's spirit excited me into sharing one perspective on LK:

 

" Hazaron badshah aieaye gayaye har sulh talat budlee - na budlee hah na

budlaygee hakumat merey data kee "

 

With respect,

 

Iqbal

 

Toronto, Canada

 

Sent via Blackberry

 

 

Rajinder Bhatia <rajinderbhatia2002

Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:31:46

 

Re: Re:varshphal discussion - Aakhree Faisla Kundali

 

Kulbir Jee,

 

I know that one shouldn't get into a discussion with a lawyer but I will venture

anyways.

(So if I lose this argument, I won't feel bad, I lost to a professional lawyer,

that will be my defence.) Just kidding.

 

The very first page of the book states that " Beemaaree ka bag.air dawaae bhee

ilaaj hai, magar maut ka koee ilaaj naheen.... " As a LalKitab

practitioner/follower, one realizes that there are " g.aibee bhed " which can't be

revealed before time, death being one of them. Now death and the " daily

deaths "  are two totally different things. Daily trials and tribulations can't be

categorized as " life and death " situations. When one is in trouble, to him/her

it seems " death-like " but it is not really a life and death situation. What type

of people come to consult us? (Here in US) mostly delay in marriage of a

son/daughter; strained relations between husband and wife; job situation;

business failure; children not under parental control; lawsuit, some

health related including terminal illnesses - these are the main issues. Thus,

there are very  few that are " life threatening " issues. In India, it may be

slightly different but not much.

 

Coming back to the issue of " Aakhree Faisla " , one shouldn't convert every annual

progressed chart as the " final decision " chart. That will be way over-reacting

and perhaps improper (and, against the spirit of LalKitab which termed this as

" ab aakh.ree faisla kya hoga? This is not for daily, routine problems.) Even

when the native feels that it is a question of " life and death " , the Lakitabist

should make an objective judgement - " Is this really a life and death

situation..? " etc. We are capable of warding off only certain trouble areas, not

all (Grah phal and Rashi phal differentiation comes into play.) and above all,

we know that even though it is LalKitab, it is what Pt Som Dutt jee terms as

" Not God's promise " -- " daawaa-e-kh.udaaee naheen. "

 

A very important and relevant question: has anyone benifitted from this " final

decision " chart? It doesn't require much skill to prepare this chart. But I'd

like to know how this was useful. May I please request Umesh Jee and others to

show an example of how this was interpreted and to what extent this was more

helpful to the subject (the " tewevala " ) that the usual techniques we apply.

Therein lies the whole significance of this technique. Without practical

application, this would be of academic interest only.

 

Best wishes.

 

Respectfully,

Rajinder Bhatia

 

----------------

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible " new car " smell?

Check out new cars at Autos.:

<http://us.rd./evt=48245/*http://autos./new_cars.html;_ylc=X3o\

DMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM->

[Guest guest]

Kulbir Jee, I know that one shouldn't get into a discussion with a lawyer but I will venture anyways. (So if I lose this argument, I won't feel bad, I lost to a professional lawyer, that will be my defence.) Just kidding. The very first page of the book states that "Beemaaree ka bag.air dawaae bhee ilaaj hai, magar maut ka koee ilaaj naheen.... " As a LalKitab practitioner/follower, one realizes that there are "g.aibee bhed" which can't be revealed before time, death being one of them. Now death and the "daily deaths" are two totally different things. Daily trials and tribulations can't be categorized as "life and death" situations. When one is in trouble, to him/her it seems "death-like" but it is not really a life and death situation. What type of people come to consult us? (Here in US) mostly delay in marriage of a son/daughter; strained relations between husband and wife; job

situation; business failure; children not under parental control; lawsuit, some health related including terminal illnesses - these are the main issues. Thus, there are very few that are "life threatening" issues. In India, it may be slightly different but not much. Coming back to the issue of "Aakhree Faisla", one shouldn't convert every annual progressed chart as the "final decision" chart. That will be way over-reacting and perhaps improper (and, against the spirit of LalKitab which termed this as "ab aakh.ree faisla kya hoga? This is not for daily, routine problems.) Even when the native feels that it is a question of "life and death", the Lakitabist should make an objective judgement - " Is this really a life and death situation..?" etc. We are capable of warding off only certain trouble areas, not all (Grah phal and Rashi phal differentiation comes into play.) and above all, we know that

even though it is LalKitab, it is what Pt Som Dutt jee terms as "Not God's promise" -- "daawaa-e-kh.udaaee naheen." A very important and relevant question: has anyone benifitted from this "final decision" chart? It doesn't require much skill to prepare this chart. But I'd like to know how this was useful. May I please request Umesh Jee and others to show an example of how this was interpreted and to what extent this was more helpful to the subject (the "tewevala") that the usual techniques we apply. Therein lies the whole significance of this technique. Without practical application, this would be of academic interest only. Best wishes. Respectfully, Rajinder Bhatia

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out

new cars at Autos.

[Guest guest]

respected sir; the honour of losing to an enlightened one is mine

but sir you don't participate in the discussions frequently;

therefore for a greater cause i have to provoke you very much like i

provoke prabhakarji.

kulbir

bains , Rajinder Bhatia

<rajinderbhatia2002 wrote:

>

> Kulbir Jee,

>

> I know that one shouldn't get into a discussion with a lawyer

but I will venture anyways.

> (So if I lose this argument, I won't feel bad, I lost to a

professional lawyer, that will be my defence.) Just kidding.

>

> The very first page of the book states that " Beemaaree ka

bag.air dawaae bhee ilaaj hai, magar maut ka koee ilaaj naheen.... "

As a LalKitab practitioner/follower, one realizes that there

are " g.aibee bhed " which can't be revealed before time, death being

one of them. Now death and the " daily deaths " are two totally

different things. Daily trials and tribulations can't be categorized

as " life and death " situations. When one is in trouble, to him/her

it seems " death-like " but it is not really a life and death

situation. What type of people come to consult us? (Here in US)

mostly delay in marriage of a son/daughter; strained relations

between husband and wife; job situation; business failure; children

not under parental control; lawsuit, some health related including

terminal illnesses - these are the main issues. Thus, there are

very few that are " life threatening " issues. In India, it may be

slightly different but not much.

>

> Coming back to the issue of " Aakhree Faisla " , one shouldn't

convert every annual progressed chart as the " final decision " chart.

That will be way over-reacting and perhaps improper (and, against

the spirit of LalKitab which termed this as " ab aakh.ree faisla kya

hoga? This is not for daily, routine problems.) Even when the native

feels that it is a question of " life and death " , the Lakitabist

should make an objective judgement - " Is this really a life and

death situation..? " etc. We are capable of warding off only certain

trouble areas, not all (Grah phal and Rashi phal differentiation

comes into play.) and above all, we know that even though it is

LalKitab, it is what Pt Som Dutt jee terms as " Not God's promise " --

" daawaa-e-kh.udaaee naheen. "

>

> A very important and relevant question: has anyone benifitted

from this " final decision " chart? It doesn't require much skill to

prepare this chart. But I'd like to know how this was useful. May I

please request Umesh Jee and others to show an example of how this

was interpreted and to what extent this was more helpful to the

subject (the " tewevala " ) that the usual techniques we apply. Therein

lies the whole significance of this technique. Without practical

application, this would be of academic interest only.

>

> Best wishes.

>

> Respectfully,

> Rajinder Bhatia

>

>

>

> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible " new car " smell?

> Check outnew cars at Autos.

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Bhatia Ji,

You have well described the statute of the 'Akhiri Kundli'.

In general, the person like me , have the tendency to read the

sentence and jump to the conclusion in haste. With this result,

sometimes the actual meaning hidden under it skip away. By the

coincidence, this Kundli has got the place on the last page of the

book. Most of us just taken it as the Akhiri Kundli of the book.But

in fact, in my opinion, Pt. ji is indicating it towards the AKhiri

Kundli of One's life. After That, there will not be necessity of

making any kundli further.

Regarding, its applicabily in real life, Seniors, may share there

experiences, came forward during case studies.

Regards

Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

 

, Rajinder Bhatia

<rajinderbhatia2002 wrote:

>

> Kulbir Jee,

>

> I know that one shouldn't get into a discussion with a lawyer but

I will venture anyways.

> (So if I lose this argument, I won't feel bad, I lost to a

professional lawyer, that will be my defence.) Just kidding.

>

> The very first page of the book states that " Beemaaree ka bag.air

dawaae bhee ilaaj hai, magar maut ka koee ilaaj naheen.... " As a

LalKitab practitioner/follower, one realizes that there are " g.aibee

bhed " which can't be revealed before time, death being one of them.

Now death and the " daily deaths " are two totally different things.

Daily trials and tribulations can't be categorized as " life and

death " situations. When one is in trouble, to him/her it seems " death-

like " but it is not really a life and death situation. What type of

people come to consult us? (Here in US) mostly delay in marriage of a

son/daughter; strained relations between husband and wife; job

situation; business failure; children not under parental control;

lawsuit, some health related including terminal illnesses - these are

the main issues. Thus, there are very few that are " life

threatening " issues. In India, it may be slightly different but not

much.

>

> Coming back to the issue of " Aakhree Faisla " , one shouldn't

convert every annual progressed chart as the " final decision " chart.

That will be way over-reacting and perhaps improper (and, against the

spirit of LalKitab which termed this as " ab aakh.ree faisla kya hoga?

This is not for daily, routine problems.) Even when the native feels

that it is a question of " life and death " , the Lakitabist should make

an objective judgement - " Is this really a life and death

situation..? " etc. We are capable of warding off only certain trouble

areas, not all (Grah phal and Rashi phal differentiation comes into

play.) and above all, we know that even though it is LalKitab, it is

what Pt Som Dutt jee terms as " Not God's promise " -- " daawaa-e-

kh.udaaee naheen. "

>

> A very important and relevant question: has anyone benifitted

from this " final decision " chart? It doesn't require much skill to

prepare this chart. But I'd like to know how this was useful. May I

please request Umesh Jee and others to show an example of how this

was interpreted and to what extent this was more helpful to the

subject (the " tewevala " ) that the usual techniques we apply. Therein

lies the whole significance of this technique. Without practical

application, this would be of academic interest only.

>

> Best wishes.

>

> Respectfully,

> Rajinder Bhatia

>

>

>

> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible " new car " smell?

> Check outnew cars at Autos.

>

[Guest guest]

guruji, had it not been for the efforts of prabhakar ji; your goodself and bahtia ji, this kundali would have remanied aakhri kundali because it was printed in none of the translated books. as far its application is concerned as it remained out of bounds barring a few like prabhakar and bhatia ji who had the privilge of having urdu books and knowing urdu too. i don't think it was put to practice by lk practitioners. i personally know a leading lk practitioner and it goes to his modesty that he admitted that during his practice of 20 years he didn't knew about this until it was put on this group. kulbir bainsNirmal Kumar Bhardwaj <nirbhar wrote: Respected Bhatia

Ji,You have well described the statute of the 'Akhiri Kundli'. In general, the person like me , have the tendency to read the sentence and jump to the conclusion in haste. With this result, sometimes the actual meaning hidden under it skip away. By the coincidence, this Kundli has got the place on the last page of the book. Most of us just taken it as the Akhiri Kundli of the book.But in fact, in my opinion, Pt. ji is indicating it towards the AKhiri Kundli of One's life. After That, there will not be necessity of making any kundli further. Regarding, its applicabily in real life, Seniors, may share there experiences, came forward during case studies.RegardsNirmal Kumar Bhardwaj , Rajinder Bhatia <rajinderbhatia2002 wrote:>> Kulbir Jee,> > I know that one shouldn't get

into a discussion with a lawyer but I will venture anyways. > (So if I lose this argument, I won't feel bad, I lost to a professional lawyer, that will be my defence.) Just kidding.> > The very first page of the book states that "Beemaaree ka bag.air dawaae bhee ilaaj hai, magar maut ka koee ilaaj naheen.... " As a LalKitab practitioner/follower, one realizes that there are "g.aibee bhed" which can't be revealed before time, death being one of them. Now death and the "daily deaths" are two totally different things. Daily trials and tribulations can't be categorized as "life and death" situations. When one is in trouble, to him/her it seems "death-like" but it is not really a life and death situation. What type of people come to consult us? (Here in US) mostly delay in marriage of a son/daughter; strained relations between husband and wife; job situation; business failure; children not under parental

control; lawsuit, some health related including terminal illnesses - these are the main issues. Thus, there are very few that are "life threatening" issues. In India, it may be slightly different but not much. > > Coming back to the issue of "Aakhree Faisla", one shouldn't convert every annual progressed chart as the "final decision" chart. That will be way over-reacting and perhaps improper (and, against the spirit of LalKitab which termed this as "ab aakh.ree faisla kya hoga? This is not for daily, routine problems.) Even when the native feels that it is a question of "life and death", the Lakitabist should make an objective judgement - " Is this really a life and death situation..?" etc. We are capable of warding off only certain trouble areas, not all (Grah phal and Rashi phal differentiation comes into play.) and above all, we know that even though it is LalKitab, it is what Pt Som Dutt jee

terms as "Not God's promise" -- "daawaa-e-kh.udaaee naheen."> > A very important and relevant question: has anyone benifitted from this "final decision" chart? It doesn't require much skill to prepare this chart. But I'd like to know how this was useful. May I please request Umesh Jee and others to show an example of how this was interpreted and to what extent this was more helpful to the subject (the "tewevala") that the usual techniques we apply. Therein lies the whole significance of this technique. Without practical application, this would be of academic interest only.> > Best wishes.> > Respectfully,> Rajinder Bhatia > > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?> Check outnew cars at Autos.>

Check out what you're missing if you're not on Messenger