Please Guide- Kurbani Ke bakre

[Guest guest]

Dear members,

Have any member done the research on Kurbani Ke bakre. Please Give

their opinion regarding

1. At what conditions this rule apply.

2. Which is the planet, umder whose fear one planet give kurbani of

other planet

Every one should participate in the discussion

Regards

Nirmal Kumar bhardwaj

[Guest guest]

Dear Nirmal ji,

 

Here's what I have understood about Kurbani ke Bakre (Scapegoat)

concept:

 

Regards,

Anshev

----------

 

Scapegoats or sacrificial goats of planets:

 

When a planet is in trouble from its enemy planet or planets, in

order to escape its troubles, it passes it to the planets that it

has kept as its sacrificial goats (Bali ka Bakra).

 

The following planets have the following sacrificial goats:

 

Saturn -> Venus [Wife]or artificial Venus (Rahu + Ketu)

Mercury -> Venus [Wife]

Mars -> Ketu [son]

Venus -> Moon [Mother]

Jupiter -> Ketu

Sun -> Ketu

Moon -> Jupiter, Sun and Mars

Rahu & Ketu -> <Themselves>

 

Rahu and Ketu are the only planets that do not pass their troubles

to others, instead suffer themselves. Rahu represents brother in law

(husband of sister or brother of wife) nd Ketu represents son (or

desciple for Jupiter).

 

Insight 1: If in an annual chart, Sun is in 6th and Saturn in 12th,

Sun being Saturn's enemy, Saturn will be in trouble. Saturn, however

will pass its troubles to Venus, wherever it may be. So the wife of

the native will suffer, despite its good position.

 

Insight 2: If Venus and Moon are in conflict (Muquable ke graham),

Moon will suffer and consequently the eye sight of the mother will

be affected.

[Guest guest]

Dear Member,

What ever you have written about " Kurbani Ke Bakre " is absolutely correct as far as bookish knowledge is concerned but be practical and for that I give below an example :

If in any chart one has The Sun, Mercury and Mars in lagna, which planet will be Kurbani Ka grah and on account of this where the ill effect will go.

Here is another example if any body is having The Sun and Venus in lagna thus forming artificial Jupiter now suggest which planet will suffer and how to analyze.

Regards,

Dr.Amar AggarwalAnshev B Bhardwejj <anshevb wrote:

Dear Nirmal ji, Here's what I have understood about Kurbani ke Bakre (Scapegoat) concept:Regards,Anshev----------Scapegoats or sacrificial goats of planets:When a planet is in trouble from its enemy planet or planets, in order to escape its troubles, it passes it to the planets that it has kept as its sacrificial goats (Bali ka Bakra).The following planets have the following sacrificial goats:Saturn -> Venus [Wife]or artificial Venus (Rahu + Ketu)Mercury -> Venus [Wife]Mars -> Ketu [son]Venus -> Moon [Mother]Jupiter -> KetuSun -> KetuMoon -> Jupiter, Sun and MarsRahu & Ketu -> <Themselves>Rahu and Ketu are the only planets that do not pass their troubles to others, instead suffer themselves. Rahu represents brother in law

(husband of sister or brother of wife) nd Ketu represents son (or desciple for Jupiter).Insight 1: If in an annual chart, Sun is in 6th and Saturn in 12th, Sun being Saturn's enemy, Saturn will be in trouble. Saturn, however will pass its troubles to Venus, wherever it may be. So the wife of the native will suffer, despite its good position.Insight 2: If Venus and Moon are in conflict (Muquable ke graham), Moon will suffer and consequently the eye sight of the mother will be affected.

[Guest guest]

Dear Anshev B Bhardwejj: In my opinion the answer is correct as per books. But as far as the practical / confirmation of this rule the research is required. as followsUnder whose fear the planet make a another planet a scapegoat. Why cannot he himself face the music.What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet, so much powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a scapegoat.In the example insight 1. What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now Will the Ketu will be sacrifice by sun.Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and sat in 11th or 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd.Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn in 7thWIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat is in 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respectiveInsight No.2In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla between the planets exists.The above querries may be seen by many of the members as childish one but these are very much relevent to the subject. Can anyone give more clarification about this phenomenon. RegardsNirmal Kumar Bhardwaj ======== At 2005-04-17, 05:57:50 you wrote: ========Dear Nirmal ji, Here's what I have understood about Kurbani ke Bakre (Scapegoat) concept:Regards,Anshev----------Scapegoats or sacrificial goats of planets:When a planet is in trouble from its enemy planet or planets, in order to escape its troubles, it passes it to the planets that it has kept as its sacrificial goats (Bali ka Bakra).The following planets have the following sacrificial goats:Saturn -> Venus [Wife]or artificial Venus (Rahu + Ketu)Mercury -> Venus [Wife]Mars -> Ketu [son]Venus -> Moon [Mother]Jupiter -> KetuSun -> KetuMoon -> Jupiter, Sun and MarsRahu & Ketu -> <Themselves>Rahu and Ketu are the only planets that do not pass their troubles to others, instead suffer themselves. Rahu represents brother in law (husband of sister or brother of wife) nd Ketu represents son (or desciple for Jupiter).Insight 1: If in an annual chart, Sun is in 6th and Saturn in 12th, Sun being Saturn's enemy, Saturn will be in trouble. Saturn, however will pass its troubles to Venus, wherever it may be. So the wife of the native will suffer, despite its good position.Insight 2: If Venus and Moon are in conflict (Muquable ke graham), Moon will suffer and consequently the eye sight of the mother will be affected.= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =Best regards. Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj nk 2005-04-17

[Guest guest]

Dear Nirmal Ji,

 

I am nt an expert of Lal Kitab, but based on what i have understood,

here are my thoughts. Please feel free to correct if I am wrong. I

am here to learn and share whetever little I know...

 

Question: >Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a

scapegoat. Why cannot he himself face the music.

 

Answer: A planet would make the other planet scapegoat, when it is

aspected by an enemy planet.

Example: Sun in 8th aspecting Saturn in 2nd house. Sun and Saturn

are mutual enemies. We know that planets in 8th can aspect 2nd house

but planets in 2nd cannot aspect those in 8th. In this case, Saturn

will pass its troubles to Venus whereever it may be.

I would think that the planet would endure as much as possible but

since it CAN pass the troubles to the designated scapegoat, it would

pass them in order to escape being troubled. (Just because it can)..

Rahu Ketu do not have that option so they have to endure..

 

Question: >What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet, so

much powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of

himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a

scapegoat.

 

Answer: I am not sure I have the type of answer you are looking for

in this case... but here is a shot.... I would think that this is

just how it is... Perhaps the concept of dynamism of relationships

apply here? Not sure.. Let us take an example which Pt. Roop Chand

ji has given.. a typical household.. There is a Father [sun], mother

[Moon], A - Their son[saturn], his wife[Venus], Son of these two or

grandson[Ketu]. The point of reference here is 'A'

(If) there is enmity between Sun and Saturn, Saturn will pass it's

troubles to his wife [Venus] because he finds himself helpless

against his father[sun].... Wife[Venus], when gets in trouble,

passes her troubles to the mother-in-law[Moon] because she finds

herself helpless against her husband as well as her father in law

[sun]. Wife[Venus] loves her son [Ketu] and has mutual friendship

for Ketu, won't pass her troubles to him...

That is why Pt. Roop Chand ji has said 'Mother will go blind'..

This is a realistic (practical) example, especially in case of an

Indian household.

 

Question: >What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now Will

the Ketu will be sacrifice by sun.

 

Answer: I would think so, Yes.. .Since Saturn and Sun are mutual

enemies, in this case due to aspects, Sun is under an aspect of the

enemy, it will pass its troubles to its scapegoat - Ketu.

 

Question: > Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and sat

in 11th or 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd.

 

Answer: I am not clear on aspects of 3/5 to 11th/9th .. but 8th to

2nd yes.. I would think that Saturn would make Venus the Bali Ka

Bakra.

 

Question: > Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn in

7th ?

 

Answer: I think 1 aspects 7th 100% but 7 cannot aspect 1st.. In this

case again, Saturn will make Venus the scapegoat whereeven she may

be..

 

Question: > WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat is

in 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respective

 

Answer: Again, due to my handicap in aspects, I am 100% sure but if

Saturn is aspecting Sun and Sun can't aspect Saturn back, I believe

Yes, he would make Ketu a scapegoat.

 

Question: >In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla between

the planets exists.

 

Answer: When both planets can " see " each other, I believe...

 

The above querries may be seen by many of the members as childish

one but these are very much relevent to the subject.

I don't think these questions are childish.. This is the only way to

learn.. By questioning and discussing..

 

regards,

Anshev B. Bhardwejj

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj "

<nk@g...> wrote:

> Dear Anshev B Bhardwejj:

> In my opinion the answer is correct as per books. But as far as

the practical / confirmation of this rule the research is required.

as follows

> Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a scapegoat. Why

cannot he himself face the music.

> What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet, so much

powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of

himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a

scapegoat.

> In the example insight 1.

> What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now Will the Ketu

will be sacrifice by sun.

> Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and sat in 11th or

9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd.

> Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn in 7th

> WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat is in

1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respective

> Insight No.2

> In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla between the

planets exists.

> The above querries may be seen by many of the members as childish

one but these are very much relevent to the subject.

> Can anyone give more clarification about this phenomenon.

> Regards

> Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

>

> ======== At 2005-04-17, 05:57:50 you wrote: ========

>

>

>

> Dear Nirmal ji,

>

> Here's what I have understood about Kurbani ke Bakre (Scapegoat)

> concept:

>

> Regards,

> Anshev

> ----------

>

> Scapegoats or sacrificial goats of planets:

>

> When a planet is in trouble from its enemy planet or planets, in

> order to escape its troubles, it passes it to the planets that it

> has kept as its sacrificial goats (Bali ka Bakra).

>

> The following planets have the following sacrificial goats:

>

> Saturn -> Venus [Wife]or artificial Venus (Rahu + Ketu)

> Mercury -> Venus [Wife]

> Mars -> Ketu [son]

> Venus -> Moon [Mother]

> Jupiter -> Ketu

> Sun -> Ketu

> Moon -> Jupiter, Sun and Mars

> Rahu & Ketu -> <Themselves>

>

> Rahu and Ketu are the only planets that do not pass their troubles

> to others, instead suffer themselves. Rahu represents brother in

law

> (husband of sister or brother of wife) nd Ketu represents son (or

> desciple for Jupiter).

>

> Insight 1: If in an annual chart, Sun is in 6th and Saturn in

12th,

> Sun being Saturn's enemy, Saturn will be in trouble. Saturn,

however

> will pass its troubles to Venus, wherever it may be. So the wife

of

> the native will suffer, despite its good position.

>

> Insight 2: If Venus and Moon are in conflict (Muquable ke graham),

> Moon will suffer and consequently the eye sight of the mother will

> be affected.

>

>

>

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Aggarwal,

 

Again, I make no claim to be an expert of Lal Kitab but here are my

views on these questions based on my understanding of Lal Kitab.

In example #1, when Sun, Mercury and Mars are in Lagna, I would

think we have to see the description of combinational planets which

is given in Lal Kitab...

 

but from Bali Ka Bakra point of view, my thoughts would be that Sun

and Mars are mutual friends so they would not have an issue in this

case. If anything, they would support each other, especially because

Lagna is Mar's fixed house and a place where Sun is exalted.

Mercury is Sun's friend, but he itself is neutral to Sun, so no

enmity there.. no issue.

 

Mars is neutral to Mercury but Mercury feels enmity towards Mars.

So, there would be some tussle (Muquable) there, and in case of

trouble Mars would pass its troubles (scapegoats) to Ketu and

Mercury to Venus (where ever Ketu and Venus may be).

 

Example #2: Sun and Venus in Lagna

Here, Sun and Venus are together and they are mutual enemies. There

would be a Muquabla amongst the two and Venus would pass its

troubles to Moon and Sun to Ketu.

As we know Moon passes its troubles to its friends: Jupiter, Sun and

Mars, Moon would pass some of that trouble back to Sun.

Please keep in mind that Sun is exalted here and hence strong. I'd

think that in planetary warfare, a strong and well placed planet is

able to strike harder as opposed to when th eplanet itself is weak

due to its position and aspects from enemies.

 

Regards,

Anshev B. Bhardwejj

 

 

 

 

 

, Amar Aggarwal <gnagesh79>

wrote:

> Dear Member,

> What ever you have written about " Kurbani Ke Bakre " is

absolutely correct as far as bookish knowledge is concerned but be

practical and for that I give below an example :

> If in any chart one has The Sun, Mercury and Mars in lagna,

which planet will be Kurbani Ka grah and on account of this where

the ill effect will go.

> Here is another example if any body is having The Sun and Venus

in lagna thus forming artificial Jupiter now suggest which planet

will suffer and how to analyze.

> Regards,

> Dr.Amar Aggarwal

>

> Anshev B Bhardwejj <anshevb> wrote:

>

>

> Dear Nirmal ji,

>

> Here's what I have understood about Kurbani ke Bakre (Scapegoat)

> concept:

>

> Regards,

> Anshev

> ----------

>

> Scapegoats or sacrificial goats of planets:

>

> When a planet is in trouble from its enemy planet or planets, in

> order to escape its troubles, it passes it to the planets that it

> has kept as its sacrificial goats (Bali ka Bakra).

>

> The following planets have the following sacrificial goats:

>

> Saturn -> Venus [Wife]or artificial Venus (Rahu + Ketu)

> Mercury -> Venus [Wife]

> Mars -> Ketu [son]

> Venus -> Moon [Mother]

> Jupiter -> Ketu

> Sun -> Ketu

> Moon -> Jupiter, Sun and Mars

> Rahu & Ketu -> <Themselves>

>

> Rahu and Ketu are the only planets that do not pass their troubles

> to others, instead suffer themselves. Rahu represents brother in

law

> (husband of sister or brother of wife) nd Ketu represents son (or

> desciple for Jupiter).

>

> Insight 1: If in an annual chart, Sun is in 6th and Saturn in

12th,

> Sun being Saturn's enemy, Saturn will be in trouble. Saturn,

however

> will pass its troubles to Venus, wherever it may be. So the wife

of

> the native will suffer, despite its good position.

>

> Insight 2: If Venus and Moon are in conflict (Muquable ke graham),

> Moon will suffer and consequently the eye sight of the mother will

> be affected.

>

>

>

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Anshevji,

Thanks for initiating a new fruitful discussion.

Kindly clarify one doubt of mine.

How do we differentiate whether a planet is weak/malefic by itself or due to being scapegoat ?

Regards

 

JayAnshev B Bhardwejj <anshevb wrote:

Dear Nirmal Ji,I am nt an expert of Lal Kitab, but based on what i have understood, here are my thoughts. Please feel free to correct if I am wrong. I am here to learn and share whetever little I know...Question: >Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a scapegoat. Why cannot he himself face the music. Answer: A planet would make the other planet scapegoat, when it is aspected by an enemy planet. Example: Sun in 8th aspecting Saturn in 2nd house. Sun and Saturn are mutual enemies. We know that planets in 8th can aspect 2nd house but planets in 2nd cannot aspect those in 8th. In this case, Saturn will pass its troubles to Venus whereever it may be.I would think that the planet would endure as much as possible but since it CAN pass the troubles to the designated scapegoat, it would pass them in

order to escape being troubled. (Just because it can).. Rahu Ketu do not have that option so they have to endure..Question: >What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet, so much powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a scapegoat. Answer: I am not sure I have the type of answer you are looking for in this case... but here is a shot.... I would think that this is just how it is... Perhaps the concept of dynamism of relationships apply here? Not sure.. Let us take an example which Pt. Roop Chand ji has given.. a typical household.. There is a Father [sun], mother[Moon], A - Their son[saturn], his wife[Venus], Son of these two or grandson[Ketu]. The point of reference here is 'A'(If) there is enmity between Sun and Saturn, Saturn will pass it's troubles to his wife [Venus] because he finds himself helpless against

his father[sun].... Wife[Venus], when gets in trouble, passes her troubles to the mother-in-law[Moon] because she finds herself helpless against her husband as well as her father in law[sun]. Wife[Venus] loves her son [Ketu] and has mutual friendship for Ketu, won't pass her troubles to him... That is why Pt. Roop Chand ji has said 'Mother will go blind'..This is a realistic (practical) example, especially in case of an Indian household.Question: >What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now Will the Ketu will be sacrifice by sun. Answer: I would think so, Yes.. .Since Saturn and Sun are mutual enemies, in this case due to aspects, Sun is under an aspect of the enemy, it will pass its troubles to its scapegoat - Ketu.Question: > Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and sat in 11th or 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd. Answer: I am not clear on aspects of 3/5 to 11th/9th .. but 8th

to 2nd yes.. I would think that Saturn would make Venus the Bali Ka Bakra.Question: > Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn in 7th ?Answer: I think 1 aspects 7th 100% but 7 cannot aspect 1st.. In this case again, Saturn will make Venus the scapegoat whereeven she may be..Question: > WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat is in 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respectiveAnswer: Again, due to my handicap in aspects, I am 100% sure but if Saturn is aspecting Sun and Sun can't aspect Saturn back, I believe Yes, he would make Ketu a scapegoat.Question: >In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla between the planets exists.Answer: When both planets can "see" each other, I believe... The above querries may be seen by many of the members as childish one but these are very much relevent to the subject. I don't think these questions are childish..

This is the only way to learn.. By questioning and discussing..regards,Anshev B. Bhardwejj , "Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj" <nk@g...> wrote:> Dear Anshev B Bhardwejj: > In my opinion the answer is correct as per books. But as far as the practical / confirmation of this rule the research is required. as follows> Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a scapegoat. Why cannot he himself face the music.> What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet, so much powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a scapegoat.> In the example insight 1. > What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now Will the Ketu will be sacrifice by sun.> Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and sat in 11th or 9th, or sun in 8th and

saturn in 2nd.> Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn in 7th> WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat is in 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respective> Insight No.2> In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla between the planets exists.> The above querries may be seen by many of the members as childish one but these are very much relevent to the subject. > Can anyone give more clarification about this phenomenon. > Regards> Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj> > ======== At 2005-04-17, 05:57:50 you wrote: ========> > > > Dear Nirmal ji, > > Here's what I have understood about Kurbani ke Bakre (Scapegoat) > concept:> > Regards,> Anshev> ----------> > Scapegoats or sacrificial goats of planets:> > When a planet is in trouble from its enemy planet or planets, in >

order to escape its troubles, it passes it to the planets that it > has kept as its sacrificial goats (Bali ka Bakra).> > The following planets have the following sacrificial goats:> > Saturn -> Venus [Wife]or artificial Venus (Rahu + Ketu)> Mercury -> Venus [Wife]> Mars -> Ketu [son]> Venus -> Moon [Mother]> Jupiter -> Ketu> Sun -> Ketu> Moon -> Jupiter, Sun and Mars> Rahu & Ketu -> <Themselves>> > Rahu and Ketu are the only planets that do not pass their troubles > to others, instead suffer themselves. Rahu represents brother in law > (husband of sister or brother of wife) nd Ketu represents son (or > desciple for Jupiter).> > Insight 1: If in an annual chart, Sun is in 6th and Saturn in 12th, > Sun being Saturn's enemy, Saturn will be in trouble. Saturn, however > will pass its

troubles to Venus, wherever it may be. So the wife of > the native will suffer, despite its good position.> > Insight 2: If Venus and Moon are in conflict (Muquable ke graham), > Moon will suffer and consequently the eye sight of the mother will > be affected.> > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Jay ji,

 

Nirmal ji initiated this discussion. I'm just trying to participate

to the best of my capacity..

 

As per your questions, I'd think the following points can give

indications that this is a scapegoat situation:

 

- If a planet who is well placed and strong shows malefic results.

AND There is a scapegoat situation for the above mentioned planet

elsewhere in the chart.

 

In case the planet itself is weak and ill placed, and on top of that

there is a scapegoat configuration for it in the chart, it may be

difficult to assess as to which malefic effects are its own and

which due to it being a scapegoat...

 

Anshev

 

 

 

 

, Jay Nahata <nahata_jay>

wrote:

> Dear Anshevji,

> Thanks for initiating a new fruitful discussion.

> Kindly clarify one doubt of mine.

> How do we differentiate whether a planet is weak/malefic by itself

or due to being scapegoat ?

>

> Regards

>

> Jay

> Anshev B Bhardwejj <anshevb> wrote:

>

>

> Dear Nirmal Ji,

>

> I am nt an expert of Lal Kitab, but based on what i have

understood,

> here are my thoughts. Please feel free to correct if I am wrong. I

> am here to learn and share whetever little I know...

>

> Question: >Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a

> scapegoat. Why cannot he himself face the music.

>

> Answer: A planet would make the other planet scapegoat, when it is

> aspected by an enemy planet.

> Example: Sun in 8th aspecting Saturn in 2nd house. Sun and Saturn

> are mutual enemies. We know that planets in 8th can aspect 2nd

house

> but planets in 2nd cannot aspect those in 8th. In this case,

Saturn

> will pass its troubles to Venus whereever it may be.

> I would think that the planet would endure as much as possible but

> since it CAN pass the troubles to the designated scapegoat, it

would

> pass them in order to escape being troubled. (Just because it

can)..

> Rahu Ketu do not have that option so they have to endure..

>

> Question: >What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet,

so

> much powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of

> himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a

> scapegoat.

>

> Answer: I am not sure I have the type of answer you are looking

for

> in this case... but here is a shot.... I would think that this is

> just how it is... Perhaps the concept of dynamism of relationships

> apply here? Not sure.. Let us take an example which Pt. Roop Chand

> ji has given.. a typical household.. There is a Father [sun],

mother

> [Moon], A - Their son[saturn], his wife[Venus], Son of these two

or

> grandson[Ketu]. The point of reference here is 'A'

> (If) there is enmity between Sun and Saturn, Saturn will pass it's

> troubles to his wife [Venus] because he finds himself helpless

> against his father[sun].... Wife[Venus], when gets in trouble,

> passes her troubles to the mother-in-law[Moon] because she finds

> herself helpless against her husband as well as her father in law

> [sun]. Wife[Venus] loves her son [Ketu] and has mutual friendship

> for Ketu, won't pass her troubles to him...

> That is why Pt. Roop Chand ji has said 'Mother will go blind'..

> This is a realistic (practical) example, especially in case of an

> Indian household.

>

> Question: >What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now

Will

> the Ketu will be sacrifice by sun.

>

> Answer: I would think so, Yes.. .Since Saturn and Sun are mutual

> enemies, in this case due to aspects, Sun is under an aspect of

the

> enemy, it will pass its troubles to its scapegoat - Ketu.

>

> Question: > Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and

sat

> in 11th or 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd.

>

> Answer: I am not clear on aspects of 3/5 to 11th/9th .. but 8th to

> 2nd yes.. I would think that Saturn would make Venus the Bali Ka

> Bakra.

>

> Question: > Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn in

> 7th ?

>

> Answer: I think 1 aspects 7th 100% but 7 cannot aspect 1st.. In

this

> case again, Saturn will make Venus the scapegoat whereeven she may

> be..

>

> Question: > WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat is

> in 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respective

>

> Answer: Again, due to my handicap in aspects, I am 100% sure but

if

> Saturn is aspecting Sun and Sun can't aspect Saturn back, I

believe

> Yes, he would make Ketu a scapegoat.

>

> Question: >In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla

between

> the planets exists.

>

> Answer: When both planets can " see " each other, I believe...

>

> The above querries may be seen by many of the members as childish

> one but these are very much relevent to the subject.

> I don't think these questions are childish.. This is the only way

to

> learn.. By questioning and discussing..

>

> regards,

> Anshev B. Bhardwejj

, " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj "

> <nk@g...> wrote:

> > Dear Anshev B Bhardwejj:

> > In my opinion the answer is correct as per books. But as far as

> the practical / confirmation of this rule the research is

required.

> as follows

> > Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a scapegoat.

Why

> cannot he himself face the music.

> > What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet, so much

> powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of

> himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a

> scapegoat.

> > In the example insight 1.

> > What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now Will the

Ketu

> will be sacrifice by sun.

> > Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and sat in 11th

or

> 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd.

> > Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn in 7th

> > WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat is in

> 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respective

> > Insight No.2

> > In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla between the

> planets exists.

> > The above querries may be seen by many of the members as

childish

> one but these are very much relevent to the subject.

> > Can anyone give more clarification about this phenomenon.

> > Regards

> > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

> >

> > ======== At 2005-04-17, 05:57:50 you wrote: ========

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Nirmal ji,

> >

> > Here's what I have understood about Kurbani ke Bakre (Scapegoat)

> > concept:

> >

> > Regards,

> > Anshev

> > ----------

> >

> > Scapegoats or sacrificial goats of planets:

> >

> > When a planet is in trouble from its enemy planet or planets, in

> > order to escape its troubles, it passes it to the planets that

it

> > has kept as its sacrificial goats (Bali ka Bakra).

> >

> > The following planets have the following sacrificial goats:

> >

> > Saturn -> Venus [Wife]or artificial Venus (Rahu + Ketu)

> > Mercury -> Venus [Wife]

> > Mars -> Ketu [son]

> > Venus -> Moon [Mother]

> > Jupiter -> Ketu

> > Sun -> Ketu

> > Moon -> Jupiter, Sun and Mars

> > Rahu & Ketu -> <Themselves>

> >

> > Rahu and Ketu are the only planets that do not pass their

troubles

> > to others, instead suffer themselves. Rahu represents brother in

> law

> > (husband of sister or brother of wife) nd Ketu represents son

(or

> > desciple for Jupiter).

> >

> > Insight 1: If in an annual chart, Sun is in 6th and Saturn in

> 12th,

> > Sun being Saturn's enemy, Saturn will be in trouble. Saturn,

> however

> > will pass its troubles to Venus, wherever it may be. So the wife

> of

> > the native will suffer, despite its good position.

> >

> > Insight 2: If Venus and Moon are in conflict (Muquable ke

graham),

> > Moon will suffer and consequently the eye sight of the mother

will

> > be affected.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Respected, Anshev Ji, You have tried to explain the meanings in a balanced manner. I feel more is required to be clarified in this context. There are many missing links. I have tried to put them in red. I am nt an expert of Lal Kitab, but based on what i have understood, here are my thoughts. Please feel free to correct if I am wrong. I am here to learn and share whetever little I know... Question: > Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a scapegoat. Why cannot he himself face the music. Answer: A planet would make the other planet scapegoat, when it is aspected by an enemy planet. Example: Sun in 8th aspecting Saturn in 2nd house. Sun and Saturn are mutual enemies. We know that planets in 8th can aspect 2nd house but planets in 2nd cannot aspect those in 8th. In this case, Saturn will pass its troubles to Venus whereever it may be. would think that the planet would endure as much as possible but since it CAN pass the troubles to the designated scapegoat, it would pass them in order to escape being troubled. (Just because it can).. Rahu Ketu do not have that option so they have to endure..Let us discuss another example which will counter the above reply . This example is as per LalKitab. Sun in 6th and mars in 10th, the Progeny will suffer even death.(Ketu will die). Now here The Mars is exalted. and the rule that planets in 5 -9 position help each other applies. Still the Ketu suffers either by sun or by Mars. Sun and Mars are intimate friends.In my opinion there is missing links in the theory of Kurbani Ke Bakre. We have to do more research Question: > What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet, so much powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a scapegoat. Answer: I am not sure I have the type of answer you are looking for in this case... but here is a shot.... I would think that this is just how it is... Perhaps the concept of dynamism of relationships apply here? Not sure.. Let us take an example which Pt. Roop Chand ji has given.. a typical household.. There is a Father [sun], mother [Moon], A - Their son[saturn], his wife[Venus], Son of these two or grandson[Ketu]. The point of reference here is 'A' (If) there is enmity between Sun and Saturn, Saturn will pass it's troubles to his wife [Venus] because he finds himself helpless against his father[sun].... Wife[Venus], when gets in trouble, passes her troubles to the mother-in-law[Moon] because she finds herself helpless against her husband as well as her father in law[sun]. Wife[Venus] loves her son [Ketu] and has mutual friendship for Ketu, won't pass her troubles to him... That is why Pt. Roop Chand ji has said 'Mother will go blind'..This is a realistic (practical) example, especially in case of an Indian household. The example is true to the indian family scene. Let us discuss another example here to have different view of this problem. We come to an office scene.There is a heirarchy of the posts in the office. A super Boss - Few bosses-lower rank bosses- executives-employess-lower rank workers. During one of the project a big bungling/erronous working which causes loss to the company repute and finanace. Now here the super boss is going to punish one of the boss. Now here if the boss is also having strong connections will try to put the onus on one of the lower rung /less powerfull official. Here comes the Kurbani Ka Bakra. Because the lower rung/less powerful have no alternative or escape.IN THIS EXAMPLE BOTH THE BOSSES ARE POWERFUL ENOUGH. THEREFORE IN MY OPINION WE HAVE TO SEARCH THE METHOD TO ASCERTAIN THAT WHAT MAKES THE TWO PLANETS MORE POWERFUL AND WHO AMONGST THEM WILL BE PUNISHING AUTHORITY AND WHO WILL BE OTHER POWERFUL TO PUT ONUS ON THE SCAPEGOAT. Question: > What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now Will the Ketu will be sacrifice by sun. Answer: I would think so, Yes.. .Since Saturn and Sun are mutual enemies, in this case due to aspects, Sun is under an aspect of the enemy, it will pass its troubles to its scapegoat - Ketu. Not, in my opinion , as per lalkitab when saturn aspect sun it will only hamper the effect of Sun without any other effect to Ketu. In my opinion before going for any conclusion we need more research on this topic as this will change whole concept of the remedial measures. In my views the Author's clear warning to understand grammer first hold good here. Best regards. Nirmal Kumar Bhardwajnk2005-04-19

[Guest guest]

I think we would have to check out the dynamics of the aspects to

clarify these doubts.

 

Ritu

 

 

, Jay Nahata <nahata_jay>

wrote:

> Dear Anshevji,

> Thanks for initiating a new fruitful discussion.

> Kindly clarify one doubt of mine.

> How do we differentiate whether a planet is weak/malefic by itself

or due to being scapegoat ?

>

> Regards

>

> Jay

> Anshev B Bhardwejj <anshevb> wrote:

>

>

> Dear Nirmal Ji,

>

> I am nt an expert of Lal Kitab, but based on what i have

understood,

> here are my thoughts. Please feel free to correct if I am wrong. I

> am here to learn and share whetever little I know...

>

> Question: >Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a

> scapegoat. Why cannot he himself face the music.

>

> Answer: A planet would make the other planet scapegoat, when it is

> aspected by an enemy planet.

> Example: Sun in 8th aspecting Saturn in 2nd house. Sun and Saturn

> are mutual enemies. We know that planets in 8th can aspect 2nd

house

> but planets in 2nd cannot aspect those in 8th. In this case, Saturn

> will pass its troubles to Venus whereever it may be.

> I would think that the planet would endure as much as possible but

> since it CAN pass the troubles to the designated scapegoat, it

would

> pass them in order to escape being troubled. (Just because it

can)..

> Rahu Ketu do not have that option so they have to endure..

>

> Question: >What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet,

so

> much powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of

> himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a

> scapegoat.

>

> Answer: I am not sure I have the type of answer you are looking for

> in this case... but here is a shot.... I would think that this is

> just how it is... Perhaps the concept of dynamism of relationships

> apply here? Not sure.. Let us take an example which Pt. Roop Chand

> ji has given.. a typical household.. There is a Father [sun], mother

> [Moon], A - Their son[saturn], his wife[Venus], Son of these two

or

> grandson[Ketu]. The point of reference here is 'A'

> (If) there is enmity between Sun and Saturn, Saturn will pass it's

> troubles to his wife [Venus] because he finds himself helpless

> against his father[sun].... Wife[Venus], when gets in trouble,

> passes her troubles to the mother-in-law[Moon] because she finds

> herself helpless against her husband as well as her father in law

> [sun]. Wife[Venus] loves her son [Ketu] and has mutual friendship

> for Ketu, won't pass her troubles to him...

> That is why Pt. Roop Chand ji has said 'Mother will go blind'..

> This is a realistic (practical) example, especially in case of an

> Indian household.

>

> Question: >What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now

Will

> the Ketu will be sacrifice by sun.

>

> Answer: I would think so, Yes.. .Since Saturn and Sun are mutual

> enemies, in this case due to aspects, Sun is under an aspect of the

> enemy, it will pass its troubles to its scapegoat - Ketu.

>

> Question: > Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and sat

> in 11th or 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd.

>

> Answer: I am not clear on aspects of 3/5 to 11th/9th .. but 8th to

> 2nd yes.. I would think that Saturn would make Venus the Bali Ka

> Bakra.

>

> Question: > Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn in

> 7th ?

>

> Answer: I think 1 aspects 7th 100% but 7 cannot aspect 1st.. In

this

> case again, Saturn will make Venus the scapegoat whereeven she may

> be..

>

> Question: > WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat is

> in 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respective

>

> Answer: Again, due to my handicap in aspects, I am 100% sure but if

> Saturn is aspecting Sun and Sun can't aspect Saturn back, I believe

> Yes, he would make Ketu a scapegoat.

>

> Question: >In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla between

> the planets exists.

>

> Answer: When both planets can " see " each other, I believe...

>

> The above querries may be seen by many of the members as childish

> one but these are very much relevent to the subject.

> I don't think these questions are childish.. This is the only way

to

> learn.. By questioning and discussing..

>

> regards,

> Anshev B. Bhardwejj

, " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj "

> <nk@g...> wrote:

> > Dear Anshev B Bhardwejj:

> > In my opinion the answer is correct as per books. But as far as

> the practical / confirmation of this rule the research is required.

> as follows

> > Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a scapegoat.

Why

> cannot he himself face the music.

> > What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet, so much

> powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of

> himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a

> scapegoat.

> > In the example insight 1.

> > What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now Will the

Ketu

> will be sacrifice by sun.

> > Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and sat in 11th

or

> 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd.

> > Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn in 7th

> > WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat is in

> 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respective

> > Insight No.2

> > In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla between the

> planets exists.

> > The above querries may be seen by many of the members as childish

> one but these are very much relevent to the subject.

> > Can anyone give more clarification about this phenomenon.

> > Regards

> > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

> >

> > ======== At 2005-04-17, 05:57:50 you wrote: ========

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Nirmal ji,

> >

> > Here's what I have understood about Kurbani ke Bakre (Scapegoat)

> > concept:

> >

> > Regards,

> > Anshev

> > ----------

> >

> > Scapegoats or sacrificial goats of planets:

> >

> > When a planet is in trouble from its enemy planet or planets, in

> > order to escape its troubles, it passes it to the planets that it

> > has kept as its sacrificial goats (Bali ka Bakra).

> >

> > The following planets have the following sacrificial goats:

> >

> > Saturn -> Venus [Wife]or artificial Venus (Rahu + Ketu)

> > Mercury -> Venus [Wife]

> > Mars -> Ketu [son]

> > Venus -> Moon [Mother]

> > Jupiter -> Ketu

> > Sun -> Ketu

> > Moon -> Jupiter, Sun and Mars

> > Rahu & Ketu -> <Themselves>

> >

> > Rahu and Ketu are the only planets that do not pass their

troubles

> > to others, instead suffer themselves. Rahu represents brother in

> law

> > (husband of sister or brother of wife) nd Ketu represents son (or

> > desciple for Jupiter).

> >

> > Insight 1: If in an annual chart, Sun is in 6th and Saturn in

> 12th,

> > Sun being Saturn's enemy, Saturn will be in trouble. Saturn,

> however

> > will pass its troubles to Venus, wherever it may be. So the wife

> of

> > the native will suffer, despite its good position.

> >

> > Insight 2: If Venus and Moon are in conflict (Muquable ke

graham),

> > Moon will suffer and consequently the eye sight of the mother

will

> > be affected.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Anshev ji,

 

Thanks for such an immediate and satisfactory reply.

 

My next question in the series is that which planet should be remedied first - malefic planet or the planet who is making it scapegoat ? In my opinion latter one should come first.Waiting for your reply and your comments/feedback on the mail posted by me recently in which I have tried to answer a few queries of yours. Please correct me wherever I am wrong.

 

Regards

 

JayAnshev B Bhardwejj <anshevb wrote:

Dear Jay ji,Nirmal ji initiated this discussion. I'm just trying to participate to the best of my capacity..As per your questions, I'd think the following points can give indications that this is a scapegoat situation:- If a planet who is well placed and strong shows malefic results. AND There is a scapegoat situation for the above mentioned planet elsewhere in the chart.In case the planet itself is weak and ill placed, and on top of that there is a scapegoat configuration for it in the chart, it may be difficult to assess as to which malefic effects are its own and which due to it being a scapegoat...Anshev , Jay Nahata <nahata_jay> wrote:> Dear Anshevji,> Thanks for initiating a new fruitful discussion.> Kindly

clarify one doubt of mine.> How do we differentiate whether a planet is weak/malefic by itself or due to being scapegoat ?> > Regards> > Jay> Anshev B Bhardwejj <anshevb> wrote:> > > Dear Nirmal Ji,> > I am nt an expert of Lal Kitab, but based on what i have understood, > here are my thoughts. Please feel free to correct if I am wrong. I > am here to learn and share whetever little I know...> > Question: >Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a > scapegoat. Why cannot he himself face the music. > > Answer: A planet would make the other planet scapegoat, when it is > aspected by an enemy planet. > Example: Sun in 8th aspecting Saturn in 2nd house. Sun and Saturn > are mutual enemies. We know that planets in 8th can aspect 2nd house > but planets in 2nd cannot aspect those in 8th. In this

case, Saturn > will pass its troubles to Venus whereever it may be.> I would think that the planet would endure as much as possible but > since it CAN pass the troubles to the designated scapegoat, it would > pass them in order to escape being troubled. (Just because it can).. > Rahu Ketu do not have that option so they have to endure..> > Question: >What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet, so > much powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of > himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a > scapegoat. > > Answer: I am not sure I have the type of answer you are looking for > in this case... but here is a shot.... I would think that this is > just how it is... Perhaps the concept of dynamism of relationships > apply here? Not sure.. Let us take an example which Pt. Roop Chand > ji has given.. a

typical household.. There is a Father [sun], mother> [Moon], A - Their son[saturn], his wife[Venus], Son of these two or > grandson[Ketu]. The point of reference here is 'A'> (If) there is enmity between Sun and Saturn, Saturn will pass it's > troubles to his wife [Venus] because he finds himself helpless > against his father[sun].... Wife[Venus], when gets in trouble, > passes her troubles to the mother-in-law[Moon] because she finds > herself helpless against her husband as well as her father in law> [sun]. Wife[Venus] loves her son [Ketu] and has mutual friendship > for Ketu, won't pass her troubles to him... > That is why Pt. Roop Chand ji has said 'Mother will go blind'..> This is a realistic (practical) example, especially in case of an > Indian household.> > Question: >What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now Will > the Ketu will be

sacrifice by sun. > > Answer: I would think so, Yes.. .Since Saturn and Sun are mutual > enemies, in this case due to aspects, Sun is under an aspect of the > enemy, it will pass its troubles to its scapegoat - Ketu.> > Question: > Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and sat > in 11th or 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd. > > Answer: I am not clear on aspects of 3/5 to 11th/9th .. but 8th to > 2nd yes.. I would think that Saturn would make Venus the Bali Ka > Bakra.> > Question: > Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn in > 7th ?> > Answer: I think 1 aspects 7th 100% but 7 cannot aspect 1st.. In this > case again, Saturn will make Venus the scapegoat whereeven she may > be..> > Question: > WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat is > in 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2

respective> > Answer: Again, due to my handicap in aspects, I am 100% sure but if > Saturn is aspecting Sun and Sun can't aspect Saturn back, I believe > Yes, he would make Ketu a scapegoat.> > Question: >In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla between > the planets exists.> > Answer: When both planets can "see" each other, I believe... > > The above querries may be seen by many of the members as childish > one but these are very much relevent to the subject. > I don't think these questions are childish.. This is the only way to > learn.. By questioning and discussing..> > regards,> Anshev B. Bhardwejj> > > > > > > , "Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj" > <nk@g...> wrote:> > Dear Anshev B Bhardwejj: > > In my opinion the answer is

correct as per books. But as far as > the practical / confirmation of this rule the research is required. > as follows> > Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a scapegoat. Why > cannot he himself face the music.> > What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet, so much > powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of > himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a > scapegoat.> > In the example insight 1. > > What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now Will the Ketu > will be sacrifice by sun.> > Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and sat in 11th or > 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd.> > Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn in 7th> > WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat is in > 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2

respective> > Insight No.2> > In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla between the > planets exists.> > The above querries may be seen by many of the members as childish > one but these are very much relevent to the subject. > > Can anyone give more clarification about this phenomenon. > > Regards> > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj> > > > ======== At 2005-04-17, 05:57:50 you wrote: ========> > > > > > > > Dear Nirmal ji, > > > > Here's what I have understood about Kurbani ke Bakre (Scapegoat) > > concept:> > > > Regards,> > Anshev> > ----------> > > > Scapegoats or sacrificial goats of planets:> > > > When a planet is in trouble from its enemy planet or planets, in > > order to escape its troubles, it passes it to the planets

that it > > has kept as its sacrificial goats (Bali ka Bakra).> > > > The following planets have the following sacrificial goats:> > > > Saturn -> Venus [Wife]or artificial Venus (Rahu + Ketu)> > Mercury -> Venus [Wife]> > Mars -> Ketu [son]> > Venus -> Moon [Mother]> > Jupiter -> Ketu> > Sun -> Ketu> > Moon -> Jupiter, Sun and Mars> > Rahu & Ketu -> <Themselves>> > > > Rahu and Ketu are the only planets that do not pass their troubles > > to others, instead suffer themselves. Rahu represents brother in > law > > (husband of sister or brother of wife) nd Ketu represents son (or > > desciple for Jupiter).> > > > Insight 1: If in an annual chart, Sun is in 6th and Saturn in > 12th, > > Sun being Saturn's enemy, Saturn will

be in trouble. Saturn, > however > > will pass its troubles to Venus, wherever it may be. So the wife > of > > the native will suffer, despite its good position.> > > > Insight 2: If Venus and Moon are in conflict (Muquable ke graham), > > Moon will suffer and consequently the eye sight of the mother will > > be affected.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Jay Ji

In my opinion, it is not finalised yet that what are the deciding

factors for the term Kurbani ke bakre. It is not suggested that one

should jump to remedies

Regards

Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

, Jay Nahata <nahata_jay> wrote:

> Dear Anshev ji,

>

> Thanks for such an immediate and satisfactory reply.

>

> My next question in the series is that which planet should be

remedied first - malefic planet or the planet who is making it

scapegoat ? In my opinion latter one should come first.

> Waiting for your reply and your comments/feedback on the mail posted

by me recently in which I have tried to answer a few queries of yours.

Please correct me wherever I am wrong.

>

> Regards

>

> Jay

> Anshev B Bhardwejj <anshevb> wrote:

>

>

> Dear Jay ji,

>

> Nirmal ji initiated this discussion. I'm just trying to participate

> to the best of my capacity..

>

> As per your questions, I'd think the following points can give

> indications that this is a scapegoat situation:

>

> - If a planet who is well placed and strong shows malefic results.

> AND There is a scapegoat situation for the above mentioned planet

> elsewhere in the chart.

>

> In case the planet itself is weak and ill placed, and on top of that

> there is a scapegoat configuration for it in the chart, it may be

> difficult to assess as to which malefic effects are its own and

> which due to it being a scapegoat...

>

> Anshev

>

>

>

>

> , Jay Nahata <nahata_jay>

> wrote:

> > Dear Anshevji,

> > Thanks for initiating a new fruitful discussion.

> > Kindly clarify one doubt of mine.

> > How do we differentiate whether a planet is weak/malefic by itself

> or due to being scapegoat ?

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Jay

> > Anshev B Bhardwejj <anshevb> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Nirmal Ji,

> >

> > I am nt an expert of Lal Kitab, but based on what i have

> understood,

> > here are my thoughts. Please feel free to correct if I am wrong. I

> > am here to learn and share whetever little I know...

> >

> > Question: >Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a

> > scapegoat. Why cannot he himself face the music.

> >

> > Answer: A planet would make the other planet scapegoat, when it is

> > aspected by an enemy planet.

> > Example: Sun in 8th aspecting Saturn in 2nd house. Sun and Saturn

> > are mutual enemies. We know that planets in 8th can aspect 2nd

> house

> > but planets in 2nd cannot aspect those in 8th. In this case,

> Saturn

> > will pass its troubles to Venus whereever it may be.

> > I would think that the planet would endure as much as possible but

> > since it CAN pass the troubles to the designated scapegoat, it

> would

> > pass them in order to escape being troubled. (Just because it

> can)..

> > Rahu Ketu do not have that option so they have to endure..

> >

> > Question: >What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet,

> so

> > much powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of

> > himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a

> > scapegoat.

> >

> > Answer: I am not sure I have the type of answer you are looking

> for

> > in this case... but here is a shot.... I would think that this is

> > just how it is... Perhaps the concept of dynamism of relationships

> > apply here? Not sure.. Let us take an example which Pt. Roop Chand

> > ji has given.. a typical household.. There is a Father [sun],

> mother

> > [Moon], A - Their son[saturn], his wife[Venus], Son of these two

> or

> > grandson[Ketu]. The point of reference here is 'A'

> > (If) there is enmity between Sun and Saturn, Saturn will pass it's

> > troubles to his wife [Venus] because he finds himself helpless

> > against his father[sun].... Wife[Venus], when gets in trouble,

> > passes her troubles to the mother-in-law[Moon] because she finds

> > herself helpless against her husband as well as her father in law

> > [sun]. Wife[Venus] loves her son [Ketu] and has mutual friendship

> > for Ketu, won't pass her troubles to him...

> > That is why Pt. Roop Chand ji has said 'Mother will go blind'..

> > This is a realistic (practical) example, especially in case of an

> > Indian household.

> >

> > Question: >What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now

> Will

> > the Ketu will be sacrifice by sun.

> >

> > Answer: I would think so, Yes.. .Since Saturn and Sun are mutual

> > enemies, in this case due to aspects, Sun is under an aspect of

> the

> > enemy, it will pass its troubles to its scapegoat - Ketu.

> >

> > Question: > Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and

> sat

> > in 11th or 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd.

> >

> > Answer: I am not clear on aspects of 3/5 to 11th/9th .. but 8th to

> > 2nd yes.. I would think that Saturn would make Venus the Bali Ka

> > Bakra.

> >

> > Question: > Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn in

> > 7th ?

> >

> > Answer: I think 1 aspects 7th 100% but 7 cannot aspect 1st.. In

> this

> > case again, Saturn will make Venus the scapegoat whereeven she may

> > be..

> >

> > Question: > WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat is

> > in 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respective

> >

> > Answer: Again, due to my handicap in aspects, I am 100% sure but

> if

> > Saturn is aspecting Sun and Sun can't aspect Saturn back, I

> believe

> > Yes, he would make Ketu a scapegoat.

> >

> > Question: >In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla

> between

> > the planets exists.

> >

> > Answer: When both planets can " see " each other, I believe...

> >

> > The above querries may be seen by many of the members as childish

> > one but these are very much relevent to the subject.

> > I don't think these questions are childish.. This is the only way

> to

> > learn.. By questioning and discussing..

> >

> > regards,

> > Anshev B. Bhardwejj

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj "

> > <nk@g...> wrote:

> > > Dear Anshev B Bhardwejj:

> > > In my opinion the answer is correct as per books. But as far as

> > the practical / confirmation of this rule the research is

> required.

> > as follows

> > > Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a scapegoat.

> Why

> > cannot he himself face the music.

> > > What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet, so much

> > powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of

> > himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a

> > scapegoat.

> > > In the example insight 1.

> > > What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now Will the

> Ketu

> > will be sacrifice by sun.

> > > Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and sat in 11th

> or

> > 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd.

> > > Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn in 7th

> > > WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat is in

> > 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respective

> > > Insight No.2

> > > In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla between the

> > planets exists.

> > > The above querries may be seen by many of the members as

> childish

> > one but these are very much relevent to the subject.

> > > Can anyone give more clarification about this phenomenon.

> > > Regards

> > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

> > >

> > > ======== At 2005-04-17, 05:57:50 you wrote: ========

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Nirmal ji,

> > >

> > > Here's what I have understood about Kurbani ke Bakre (Scapegoat)

> > > concept:

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Anshev

> > > ----------

> > >

> > > Scapegoats or sacrificial goats of planets:

> > >

> > > When a planet is in trouble from its enemy planet or planets, in

> > > order to escape its troubles, it passes it to the planets that

> it

> > > has kept as its sacrificial goats (Bali ka Bakra).

> > >

> > > The following planets have the following sacrificial goats:

> > >

> > > Saturn -> Venus [Wife]or artificial Venus (Rahu + Ketu)

> > > Mercury -> Venus [Wife]

> > > Mars -> Ketu [son]

> > > Venus -> Moon [Mother]

> > > Jupiter -> Ketu

> > > Sun -> Ketu

> > > Moon -> Jupiter, Sun and Mars

> > > Rahu & Ketu -> <Themselves>

> > >

> > > Rahu and Ketu are the only planets that do not pass their

> troubles

> > > to others, instead suffer themselves. Rahu represents brother in

> > law

> > > (husband of sister or brother of wife) nd Ketu represents son

> (or

> > > desciple for Jupiter).

> > >

> > > Insight 1: If in an annual chart, Sun is in 6th and Saturn in

> > 12th,

> > > Sun being Saturn's enemy, Saturn will be in trouble. Saturn,

> > however

> > > will pass its troubles to Venus, wherever it may be. So the wife

> > of

> > > the native will suffer, despite its good position.

> > >

> > > Insight 2: If Venus and Moon are in conflict (Muquable ke

> graham),

> > > Moon will suffer and consequently the eye sight of the mother

> will

> > > be affected.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Rituji Namaskar,

 

I agree with you that its very important to have a clear concept of

aspects as well as the concept of friend/foe as mentioned in Lal

Kitab. It's the foundation of Lal Kitab analysis and as Nirmalji has

rightly said somewhere, that remedial part comes much after one

grasps the grammer part firmly.

 

I suggest at some point, we should revisit the aspects and

friend/foe concepts...

 

Anshev B. Bhardwejj

 

 

 

, " Ritu Lalit " <ritulalit@h...>

wrote:

>

> I think we would have to check out the dynamics of the aspects to

> clarify these doubts.

>

> Ritu

>

>

> , Jay Nahata <nahata_jay>

> wrote:

> > Dear Anshevji,

> > Thanks for initiating a new fruitful discussion.

> > Kindly clarify one doubt of mine.

> > How do we differentiate whether a planet is weak/malefic by

itself

> or due to being scapegoat ?

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Jay

> > Anshev B Bhardwejj <anshevb> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Nirmal Ji,

> >

> > I am nt an expert of Lal Kitab, but based on what i have

> understood,

> > here are my thoughts. Please feel free to correct if I am wrong.

I

> > am here to learn and share whetever little I know...

> >

> > Question: >Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a

> > scapegoat. Why cannot he himself face the music.

> >

> > Answer: A planet would make the other planet scapegoat, when it

is

> > aspected by an enemy planet.

> > Example: Sun in 8th aspecting Saturn in 2nd house. Sun and

Saturn

> > are mutual enemies. We know that planets in 8th can aspect 2nd

> house

> > but planets in 2nd cannot aspect those in 8th. In this case,

Saturn

> > will pass its troubles to Venus whereever it may be.

> > I would think that the planet would endure as much as possible

but

> > since it CAN pass the troubles to the designated scapegoat, it

> would

> > pass them in order to escape being troubled. (Just because it

> can)..

> > Rahu Ketu do not have that option so they have to endure..

> >

> > Question: >What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other

planet,

> so

> > much powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu

of

> > himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a

> > scapegoat.

> >

> > Answer: I am not sure I have the type of answer you are looking

for

> > in this case... but here is a shot.... I would think that this

is

> > just how it is... Perhaps the concept of dynamism of

relationships

> > apply here? Not sure.. Let us take an example which Pt. Roop

Chand

> > ji has given.. a typical household.. There is a Father [sun],

mother

> > [Moon], A - Their son[saturn], his wife[Venus], Son of these

two

> or

> > grandson[Ketu]. The point of reference here is 'A'

> > (If) there is enmity between Sun and Saturn, Saturn will pass

it's

> > troubles to his wife [Venus] because he finds himself helpless

> > against his father[sun].... Wife[Venus], when gets in trouble,

> > passes her troubles to the mother-in-law[Moon] because she finds

> > herself helpless against her husband as well as her father in law

> > [sun]. Wife[Venus] loves her son [Ketu] and has mutual

friendship

> > for Ketu, won't pass her troubles to him...

> > That is why Pt. Roop Chand ji has said 'Mother will go blind'..

> > This is a realistic (practical) example, especially in case of

an

> > Indian household.

> >

> > Question: >What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now

> Will

> > the Ketu will be sacrifice by sun.

> >

> > Answer: I would think so, Yes.. .Since Saturn and Sun are mutual

> > enemies, in this case due to aspects, Sun is under an aspect of

the

> > enemy, it will pass its troubles to its scapegoat - Ketu.

> >

> > Question: > Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and

sat

> > in 11th or 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd.

> >

> > Answer: I am not clear on aspects of 3/5 to 11th/9th .. but 8th

to

> > 2nd yes.. I would think that Saturn would make Venus the Bali Ka

> > Bakra.

> >

> > Question: > Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn

in

> > 7th ?

> >

> > Answer: I think 1 aspects 7th 100% but 7 cannot aspect 1st.. In

> this

> > case again, Saturn will make Venus the scapegoat whereeven she

may

> > be..

> >

> > Question: > WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat

is

> > in 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respective

> >

> > Answer: Again, due to my handicap in aspects, I am 100% sure but

if

> > Saturn is aspecting Sun and Sun can't aspect Saturn back, I

believe

> > Yes, he would make Ketu a scapegoat.

> >

> > Question: >In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla

between

> > the planets exists.

> >

> > Answer: When both planets can " see " each other, I believe...

> >

> > The above querries may be seen by many of the members as

childish

> > one but these are very much relevent to the subject.

> > I don't think these questions are childish.. This is the only

way

> to

> > learn.. By questioning and discussing..

> >

> > regards,

> > Anshev B. Bhardwejj

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj "

> > <nk@g...> wrote:

> > > Dear Anshev B Bhardwejj:

> > > In my opinion the answer is correct as per books. But as far

as

> > the practical / confirmation of this rule the research is

required.

> > as follows

> > > Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a scapegoat.

> Why

> > cannot he himself face the music.

> > > What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet, so much

> > powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of

> > himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a

> > scapegoat.

> > > In the example insight 1.

> > > What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now Will the

> Ketu

> > will be sacrifice by sun.

> > > Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and sat in

11th

> or

> > 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd.

> > > Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn in 7th

> > > WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat is in

> > 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respective

> > > Insight No.2

> > > In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla between the

> > planets exists.

> > > The above querries may be seen by many of the members as

childish

> > one but these are very much relevent to the subject.

> > > Can anyone give more clarification about this phenomenon.

> > > Regards

> > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

> > >

> > > ======== At 2005-04-17, 05:57:50 you wrote: ========

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Nirmal ji,

> > >

> > > Here's what I have understood about Kurbani ke Bakre

(Scapegoat)

> > > concept:

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Anshev

> > > ----------

> > >

> > > Scapegoats or sacrificial goats of planets:

> > >

> > > When a planet is in trouble from its enemy planet or planets,

in

> > > order to escape its troubles, it passes it to the planets that

it

> > > has kept as its sacrificial goats (Bali ka Bakra).

> > >

> > > The following planets have the following sacrificial goats:

> > >

> > > Saturn -> Venus [Wife]or artificial Venus (Rahu + Ketu)

> > > Mercury -> Venus [Wife]

> > > Mars -> Ketu [son]

> > > Venus -> Moon [Mother]

> > > Jupiter -> Ketu

> > > Sun -> Ketu

> > > Moon -> Jupiter, Sun and Mars

> > > Rahu & Ketu -> <Themselves>

> > >

> > > Rahu and Ketu are the only planets that do not pass their

> troubles

> > > to others, instead suffer themselves. Rahu represents brother

in

> > law

> > > (husband of sister or brother of wife) nd Ketu represents son

(or

> > > desciple for Jupiter).

> > >

> > > Insight 1: If in an annual chart, Sun is in 6th and Saturn in

> > 12th,

> > > Sun being Saturn's enemy, Saturn will be in trouble. Saturn,

> > however

> > > will pass its troubles to Venus, wherever it may be. So the

wife

> > of

> > > the native will suffer, despite its good position.

> > >

> > > Insight 2: If Venus and Moon are in conflict (Muquable ke

> graham),

> > > Moon will suffer and consequently the eye sight of the mother

> will

> > > be affected.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

For friendships I think the equation is like this .....

 

Sun is friendly to Moon, Jupiter, Mars and Mercury

Moon is friendly to Sun, Jupiter and Mars

Mars is friendly to Sun and Jupiter

Mercury is friendly to Saturn, Venus, Sun and Rahu

Venus is friendly to Saturn, Mercury and Ketu

Saturn is friendly to Rahu and Venus

Rahu is friendly to Mercury, Venus and Saturn

Ketu is friendly to Rahu and Venus

 

Ritu

 

, " Anshev B Bhardwejj "

<anshevb> wrote:

>

> Rituji Namaskar,

>

> I agree with you that its very important to have a clear concept of

> aspects as well as the concept of friend/foe as mentioned in Lal

> Kitab. It's the foundation of Lal Kitab analysis and as Nirmalji

has

> rightly said somewhere, that remedial part comes much after one

> grasps the grammer part firmly.

>

> I suggest at some point, we should revisit the aspects and

> friend/foe concepts...

>

> Anshev B. Bhardwejj

>

>

>

> , " Ritu Lalit " <ritulalit@h...>

> wrote:

> >

> > I think we would have to check out the dynamics of the aspects to

> > clarify these doubts.

> >

> > Ritu

> >

> >

> > , Jay Nahata

<nahata_jay>

> > wrote:

> > > Dear Anshevji,

> > > Thanks for initiating a new fruitful discussion.

> > > Kindly clarify one doubt of mine.

> > > How do we differentiate whether a planet is weak/malefic by

> itself

> > or due to being scapegoat ?

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Jay

> > > Anshev B Bhardwejj <anshevb> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Nirmal Ji,

> > >

> > > I am nt an expert of Lal Kitab, but based on what i have

> > understood,

> > > here are my thoughts. Please feel free to correct if I am

wrong.

> I

> > > am here to learn and share whetever little I know...

> > >

> > > Question: >Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a

> > > scapegoat. Why cannot he himself face the music.

> > >

> > > Answer: A planet would make the other planet scapegoat, when it

> is

> > > aspected by an enemy planet.

> > > Example: Sun in 8th aspecting Saturn in 2nd house. Sun and

> Saturn

> > > are mutual enemies. We know that planets in 8th can aspect 2nd

> > house

> > > but planets in 2nd cannot aspect those in 8th. In this case,

> Saturn

> > > will pass its troubles to Venus whereever it may be.

> > > I would think that the planet would endure as much as possible

> but

> > > since it CAN pass the troubles to the designated scapegoat, it

> > would

> > > pass them in order to escape being troubled. (Just because it

> > can)..

> > > Rahu Ketu do not have that option so they have to endure..

> > >

> > > Question: >What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other

> planet,

> > so

> > > much powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu

> of

> > > himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be

a

> > > scapegoat.

> > >

> > > Answer: I am not sure I have the type of answer you are looking

> for

> > > in this case... but here is a shot.... I would think that this

> is

> > > just how it is... Perhaps the concept of dynamism of

> relationships

> > > apply here? Not sure.. Let us take an example which Pt. Roop

> Chand

> > > ji has given.. a typical household.. There is a Father [sun],

> mother

> > > [Moon], A - Their son[saturn], his wife[Venus], Son of these

> two

> > or

> > > grandson[Ketu]. The point of reference here is 'A'

> > > (If) there is enmity between Sun and Saturn, Saturn will pass

> it's

> > > troubles to his wife [Venus] because he finds himself helpless

> > > against his father[sun].... Wife[Venus], when gets in trouble,

> > > passes her troubles to the mother-in-law[Moon] because she

finds

> > > herself helpless against her husband as well as her father in

law

> > > [sun]. Wife[Venus] loves her son [Ketu] and has mutual

> friendship

> > > for Ketu, won't pass her troubles to him...

> > > That is why Pt. Roop Chand ji has said 'Mother will go blind'..

> > > This is a realistic (practical) example, especially in case of

> an

> > > Indian household.

> > >

> > > Question: >What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now

> > Will

> > > the Ketu will be sacrifice by sun.

> > >

> > > Answer: I would think so, Yes.. .Since Saturn and Sun are

mutual

> > > enemies, in this case due to aspects, Sun is under an aspect of

> the

> > > enemy, it will pass its troubles to its scapegoat - Ketu.

> > >

> > > Question: > Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and

> sat

> > > in 11th or 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd.

> > >

> > > Answer: I am not clear on aspects of 3/5 to 11th/9th .. but 8th

> to

> > > 2nd yes.. I would think that Saturn would make Venus the Bali

Ka

> > > Bakra.

> > >

> > > Question: > Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn

> in

> > > 7th ?

> > >

> > > Answer: I think 1 aspects 7th 100% but 7 cannot aspect 1st.. In

> > this

> > > case again, Saturn will make Venus the scapegoat whereeven she

> may

> > > be..

> > >

> > > Question: > WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat

> is

> > > in 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respective

> > >

> > > Answer: Again, due to my handicap in aspects, I am 100% sure

but

> if

> > > Saturn is aspecting Sun and Sun can't aspect Saturn back, I

> believe

> > > Yes, he would make Ketu a scapegoat.

> > >

> > > Question: >In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla

> between

> > > the planets exists.

> > >

> > > Answer: When both planets can " see " each other, I believe...

> > >

> > > The above querries may be seen by many of the members as

> childish

> > > one but these are very much relevent to the subject.

> > > I don't think these questions are childish.. This is the only

> way

> > to

> > > learn.. By questioning and discussing..

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > Anshev B. Bhardwejj

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj "

> > > <nk@g...> wrote:

> > > > Dear Anshev B Bhardwejj:

> > > > In my opinion the answer is correct as per books. But as far

> as

> > > the practical / confirmation of this rule the research is

> required.

> > > as follows

> > > > Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a

scapegoat.

> > Why

> > > cannot he himself face the music.

> > > > What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet, so

much

> > > powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of

> > > himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be

a

> > > scapegoat.

> > > > In the example insight 1.

> > > > What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now Will the

> > Ketu

> > > will be sacrifice by sun.

> > > > Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and sat in

> 11th

> > or

> > > 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd.

> > > > Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn in 7th

> > > > WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat is in

> > > 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respective

> > > > Insight No.2

> > > > In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla between the

> > > planets exists.

> > > > The above querries may be seen by many of the members as

> childish

> > > one but these are very much relevent to the subject.

> > > > Can anyone give more clarification about this phenomenon.

> > > > Regards

> > > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

> > > >

> > > > ======== At 2005-04-17, 05:57:50 you wrote: ========

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Nirmal ji,

> > > >

> > > > Here's what I have understood about Kurbani ke Bakre

> (Scapegoat)

> > > > concept:

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Anshev

> > > > ----------

> > > >

> > > > Scapegoats or sacrificial goats of planets:

> > > >

> > > > When a planet is in trouble from its enemy planet or planets,

> in

> > > > order to escape its troubles, it passes it to the planets

that

> it

> > > > has kept as its sacrificial goats (Bali ka Bakra).

> > > >

> > > > The following planets have the following sacrificial goats:

> > > >

> > > > Saturn -> Venus [Wife]or artificial Venus (Rahu + Ketu)

> > > > Mercury -> Venus [Wife]

> > > > Mars -> Ketu [son]

> > > > Venus -> Moon [Mother]

> > > > Jupiter -> Ketu

> > > > Sun -> Ketu

> > > > Moon -> Jupiter, Sun and Mars

> > > > Rahu & Ketu -> <Themselves>

> > > >

> > > > Rahu and Ketu are the only planets that do not pass their

> > troubles

> > > > to others, instead suffer themselves. Rahu represents brother

> in

> > > law

> > > > (husband of sister or brother of wife) nd Ketu represents son

> (or

> > > > desciple for Jupiter).

> > > >

> > > > Insight 1: If in an annual chart, Sun is in 6th and Saturn in

> > > 12th,

> > > > Sun being Saturn's enemy, Saturn will be in trouble. Saturn,

> > > however

> > > > will pass its troubles to Venus, wherever it may be. So the

> wife

> > > of

> > > > the native will suffer, despite its good position.

> > > >

> > > > Insight 2: If Venus and Moon are in conflict (Muquable ke

> > graham),

> > > > Moon will suffer and consequently the eye sight of the mother

> > will

> > > > be affected.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I think Nirmal ji has posted a tabular form of the friendship enemity

dynamics somewhere in the files section

 

Ritu

 

, " Ritu Lalit " <ritulalit@h...>

wrote:

>

> For friendships I think the equation is like this .....

>

> Sun is friendly to Moon, Jupiter, Mars and Mercury

> Moon is friendly to Sun, Jupiter and Mars

> Mars is friendly to Sun and Jupiter

> Mercury is friendly to Saturn, Venus, Sun and Rahu

> Venus is friendly to Saturn, Mercury and Ketu

> Saturn is friendly to Rahu and Venus

> Rahu is friendly to Mercury, Venus and Saturn

> Ketu is friendly to Rahu and Venus

>

> Ritu

>

> , " Anshev B Bhardwejj "

> <anshevb> wrote:

> >

> > Rituji Namaskar,

> >

> > I agree with you that its very important to have a clear concept

of

> > aspects as well as the concept of friend/foe as mentioned in Lal

> > Kitab. It's the foundation of Lal Kitab analysis and as Nirmalji

> has

> > rightly said somewhere, that remedial part comes much after one

> > grasps the grammer part firmly.

> >

> > I suggest at some point, we should revisit the aspects and

> > friend/foe concepts...

> >

> > Anshev B. Bhardwejj

> >

> >

> >

> > , " Ritu Lalit "

<ritulalit@h...>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > I think we would have to check out the dynamics of the aspects

to

> > > clarify these doubts.

> > >

> > > Ritu

> > >

> > >

> > > , Jay Nahata

> <nahata_jay>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Dear Anshevji,

> > > > Thanks for initiating a new fruitful discussion.

> > > > Kindly clarify one doubt of mine.

> > > > How do we differentiate whether a planet is weak/malefic by

> > itself

> > > or due to being scapegoat ?

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > Jay

> > > > Anshev B Bhardwejj <anshevb> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Nirmal Ji,

> > > >

> > > > I am nt an expert of Lal Kitab, but based on what i have

> > > understood,

> > > > here are my thoughts. Please feel free to correct if I am

> wrong.

> > I

> > > > am here to learn and share whetever little I know...

> > > >

> > > > Question: >Under whose fear the planet make a another planet

a

> > > > scapegoat. Why cannot he himself face the music.

> > > >

> > > > Answer: A planet would make the other planet scapegoat, when

it

> > is

> > > > aspected by an enemy planet.

> > > > Example: Sun in 8th aspecting Saturn in 2nd house. Sun and

> > Saturn

> > > > are mutual enemies. We know that planets in 8th can aspect

2nd

> > > house

> > > > but planets in 2nd cannot aspect those in 8th. In this case,

> > Saturn

> > > > will pass its troubles to Venus whereever it may be.

> > > > I would think that the planet would endure as much as

possible

> > but

> > > > since it CAN pass the troubles to the designated scapegoat,

it

> > > would

> > > > pass them in order to escape being troubled. (Just because it

> > > can)..

> > > > Rahu Ketu do not have that option so they have to endure..

> > > >

> > > > Question: >What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other

> > planet,

> > > so

> > > > much powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in

lieu

> > of

> > > > himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can

be

> a

> > > > scapegoat.

> > > >

> > > > Answer: I am not sure I have the type of answer you are

looking

> > for

> > > > in this case... but here is a shot.... I would think that

this

> > is

> > > > just how it is... Perhaps the concept of dynamism of

> > relationships

> > > > apply here? Not sure.. Let us take an example which Pt. Roop

> > Chand

> > > > ji has given.. a typical household.. There is a Father [sun],

> > mother

> > > > [Moon], A - Their son[saturn], his wife[Venus], Son of these

> > two

> > > or

> > > > grandson[Ketu]. The point of reference here is 'A'

> > > > (If) there is enmity between Sun and Saturn, Saturn will pass

> > it's

> > > > troubles to his wife [Venus] because he finds himself

helpless

> > > > against his father[sun].... Wife[Venus], when gets in

trouble,

> > > > passes her troubles to the mother-in-law[Moon] because she

> finds

> > > > herself helpless against her husband as well as her father in

> law

> > > > [sun]. Wife[Venus] loves her son [Ketu] and has mutual

> > friendship

> > > > for Ketu, won't pass her troubles to him...

> > > > That is why Pt. Roop Chand ji has said 'Mother will go

blind'..

> > > > This is a realistic (practical) example, especially in case

of

> > an

> > > > Indian household.

> > > >

> > > > Question: >What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12.

Now

> > > Will

> > > > the Ketu will be sacrifice by sun.

> > > >

> > > > Answer: I would think so, Yes.. .Since Saturn and Sun are

> mutual

> > > > enemies, in this case due to aspects, Sun is under an aspect

of

> > the

> > > > enemy, it will pass its troubles to its scapegoat - Ketu.

> > > >

> > > > Question: > Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th

and

> > sat

> > > > in 11th or 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd.

> > > >

> > > > Answer: I am not clear on aspects of 3/5 to 11th/9th .. but

8th

> > to

> > > > 2nd yes.. I would think that Saturn would make Venus the Bali

> Ka

> > > > Bakra.

> > > >

> > > > Question: > Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and

saturn

> > in

> > > > 7th ?

> > > >

> > > > Answer: I think 1 aspects 7th 100% but 7 cannot aspect 1st..

In

> > > this

> > > > case again, Saturn will make Venus the scapegoat whereeven

she

> > may

> > > > be..

> > > >

> > > > Question: > WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if

sat

> > is

> > > > in 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respective

> > > >

> > > > Answer: Again, due to my handicap in aspects, I am 100% sure

> but

> > if

> > > > Saturn is aspecting Sun and Sun can't aspect Saturn back, I

> > believe

> > > > Yes, he would make Ketu a scapegoat.

> > > >

> > > > Question: >In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla

> > between

> > > > the planets exists.

> > > >

> > > > Answer: When both planets can " see " each other, I believe...

> > > >

> > > > The above querries may be seen by many of the members as

> > childish

> > > > one but these are very much relevent to the subject.

> > > > I don't think these questions are childish.. This is the only

> > way

> > > to

> > > > learn.. By questioning and discussing..

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > Anshev B. Bhardwejj

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj "

> > > > <nk@g...> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Anshev B Bhardwejj:

> > > > > In my opinion the answer is correct as per books. But as

far

> > as

> > > > the practical / confirmation of this rule the research is

> > required.

> > > > as follows

> > > > > Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a

> scapegoat.

> > > Why

> > > > cannot he himself face the music.

> > > > > What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet, so

> much

> > > > powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of

> > > > himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can

be

> a

> > > > scapegoat.

> > > > > In the example insight 1.

> > > > > What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now Will

the

> > > Ketu

> > > > will be sacrifice by sun.

> > > > > Is the same condition applies if Sun in 3rd/5th and sat in

> > 11th

> > > or

> > > > 9th, or sun in 8th and saturn in 2nd.

> > > > > Is the same conditon applies if sun in 1 and saturn in 7th

> > > > > WIll ketu will be sacrificed in place of sun if sat is in

> > > > 1/3/5/8/6 and and sun is in 7/9/9/2/2 respective

> > > > > Insight No.2

> > > > > In whic houses and under which rules the muqabla between

the

> > > > planets exists.

> > > > > The above querries may be seen by many of the members as

> > childish

> > > > one but these are very much relevent to the subject.

> > > > > Can anyone give more clarification about this phenomenon.

> > > > > Regards

> > > > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

> > > > >

> > > > > ======== At 2005-04-17, 05:57:50 you wrote: ========

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Nirmal ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Here's what I have understood about Kurbani ke Bakre

> > (Scapegoat)

> > > > > concept:

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Anshev

> > > > > ----------

> > > > >

> > > > > Scapegoats or sacrificial goats of planets:

> > > > >

> > > > > When a planet is in trouble from its enemy planet or

planets,

> > in

> > > > > order to escape its troubles, it passes it to the planets

> that

> > it

> > > > > has kept as its sacrificial goats (Bali ka Bakra).

> > > > >

> > > > > The following planets have the following sacrificial goats:

> > > > >

> > > > > Saturn -> Venus [Wife]or artificial Venus (Rahu + Ketu)

> > > > > Mercury -> Venus [Wife]

> > > > > Mars -> Ketu [son]

> > > > > Venus -> Moon [Mother]

> > > > > Jupiter -> Ketu

> > > > > Sun -> Ketu

> > > > > Moon -> Jupiter, Sun and Mars

> > > > > Rahu & Ketu -> <Themselves>

> > > > >

> > > > > Rahu and Ketu are the only planets that do not pass their

> > > troubles

> > > > > to others, instead suffer themselves. Rahu represents

brother

> > in

> > > > law

> > > > > (husband of sister or brother of wife) nd Ketu represents

son

> > (or

> > > > > desciple for Jupiter).

> > > > >

> > > > > Insight 1: If in an annual chart, Sun is in 6th and Saturn

in

> > > > 12th,

> > > > > Sun being Saturn's enemy, Saturn will be in trouble.

Saturn,

> > > > however

> > > > > will pass its troubles to Venus, wherever it may be. So the

> > wife

> > > > of

> > > > > the native will suffer, despite its good position.

> > > > >

> > > > > Insight 2: If Venus and Moon are in conflict (Muquable ke

> > > graham),

> > > > > Moon will suffer and consequently the eye sight of the

mother

> > > will

> > > > > be affected.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Nirmal Ji,

To find out the missing links as you have said, it is my suggestion in case it appeals you that any specific combination should be discussed in the presence of a live horoscope but should not be a personal one. I am giving here an horoscopic details having Mars in the 10th house and the Sun in 6th house. I know the person who in no way related to me and nothing is personal in it but can prove beneficial for the group members;

DOB:28/9/1939,TOB:19:38PM IST, POB:Ambala

The planetary position is as under:

Lagna:Aries with Saturn and Ketu, 6th house cotains The Sun, Mercury and Venus, 7th house Rahu, 10th House Mars And 12th house contains The Moon and Jupiter.

Now this horoscope can be discussed considering the position of the Sun and Mars.

Regards,

Dr.Amar AggarwalNirmal Kumar Bhardwaj <nk wrote:

 

 

Respected, Anshev Ji,

You have tried to explain the meanings in a balanced manner. I feel more is required to be clarified in this context. There are many missing links. I have tried to put them in red.

 

I am nt an expert of Lal Kitab, but based on what i have understood,

here are my thoughts. Please feel free to correct if I am wrong. I

am here to learn and share whetever little I know...

 

Question: > Under whose fear the planet make a another planet a scapegoat. Why cannot he himself face the music.

 

Answer: A planet would make the other planet scapegoat, when it is aspected by an enemy planet.

Example: Sun in 8th aspecting Saturn in 2nd house. Sun and Saturn are mutual enemies. We know that planets in 8th can aspect 2nd house

but planets in 2nd cannot aspect those in 8th. In this case, Saturn will pass its troubles to Venus whereever it may be. would think that the planet would endure as much as possible but

since it CAN pass the troubles to the designated scapegoat, it would pass them in order to escape being troubled. (Just because it can)..

Rahu Ketu do not have that option so they have to endure..

Let us discuss another example which will counter the above reply . This example is as per LalKitab. Sun in 6th and mars in 10th, the Progeny will suffer even death.(Ketu will die). Now here The Mars is exalted. and the rule that planets in 5 -9 position help each other applies. Still the Ketu suffers either by sun or by Mars. Sun and Mars are intimate friends.

In my opinion there is missing links in the theory of Kurbani Ke Bakre. We have to do more research

 

Question: > What makes, the planet giving kurbani of other planet, so much powerful that he can make another planet scapegoat in lieu of

himself. e.g. what makes the venus so helpless that she can be a scapegoat.

 

Answer: I am not sure I have the type of answer you are looking for in this case... but here is a shot.... I would think that this is

just how it is... Perhaps the concept of dynamism of relationships apply here? Not sure.. Let us take an example which Pt. Roop Chand

ji has given.. a typical household.. There is a Father [sun], mother [Moon], A - Their son[saturn], his wife[Venus], Son of these two or

grandson[Ketu]. The point of reference here is 'A' (If) there is enmity between Sun and Saturn, Saturn will pass it's troubles to his wife [Venus] because he finds himself helpless against his father[sun].... Wife[Venus], when gets in trouble,

passes her troubles to the mother-in-law[Moon] because she finds herself helpless against her husband as well as her father in law

[sun]. Wife[Venus] loves her son [Ketu] and has mutual friendship for Ketu, won't pass her troubles to him...

That is why Pt. Roop Chand ji has said 'Mother will go blind'..

This is a realistic (practical) example, especially in case of an Indian household.

 

The example is true to the indian family scene. Let us discuss another example here to have different view of this problem. We come to an office scene.There is a heirarchy of the posts in the office. A super Boss - Few bosses-lower rank bosses- executives-employess-lower rank workers. During one of the project a big bungling/erronous working which causes loss to the company repute and finanace. Now here the super boss is going to punish one of the boss. Now here if the boss is also having strong connections will try to put the onus on one of the lower rung /less powerfull official. Here comes the Kurbani Ka Bakra. Because the lower rung/less powerful have no alternative or escape.

IN THIS EXAMPLE BOTH THE BOSSES ARE POWERFUL ENOUGH. THEREFORE IN MY OPINION WE HAVE TO SEARCH THE METHOD TO ASCERTAIN THAT WHAT MAKES THE TWO PLANETS MORE POWERFUL AND WHO AMONGST THEM WILL BE PUNISHING AUTHORITY AND WHO WILL BE OTHER POWERFUL TO PUT ONUS ON THE SCAPEGOAT.

 

Question: > What will happen if saturn in 6th and sun in 12. Now Will the Ketu will be sacrifice by sun.

 

Answer: I would think so, Yes.. .Since Saturn and Sun are mutual enemies, in this case due to aspects, Sun is under an aspect of the

enemy, it will pass its troubles to its scapegoat - Ketu.

 

Not, in my opinion , as per lalkitab when saturn aspect sun it will only hamper the effect of Sun without any other effect to Ketu.

 

In my opinion before going for any conclusion we need more research on this topic as this will change whole concept of the remedial measures. In my views the Author's clear warning to understand grammer first hold good here.

 

Best regards.

 

Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

nk

2005-04-19