BHAV SPASHTA IN LALKITAB Rajinder Bhatia ji

June 6, 2005

Dear Rajinder Bhatia ji,

I couldn't have said better than Nahata ji. Bhav-spashtha technique

is for accuracy and in no way pollutes the pristine soul of the

system. Yes , I agree that a sidhdh purush like Pt Roop Chand Joshi

ji didn't need any of these techniques. I know of cases where he

looked at a photograph and predicted things in minute details. But

then Pt Roop Chand ji could do it , not mortals like us. We need

every tool to be accurate lest our reading should go wrong and harm

some one.

You know it very well that Pt Roop Chand ji based the entire book on

the system of Bhav { or Khana as he called it } and not on Rasi. Had

the two been identical or interchangeable he would never have

suggested to erase the Rasi and number the houses all over again. It

couldn't have been just to say that the house number one belongs to

Mars [ Aries ] . The entire procedure was to make us use the system

of Bhav over the system of Rasi . In other words he wanted that the

Bhav should be studied instead of the Rasi. If we do not work out the

Bhav , then in effect , we would be studying the Rasi and not the

Khana or Bhav . I study the Khana or the Bhav as expected and not

the Rasi. ; thus following the book in its true spirit .

I use the Bhav –spastha technique to know the exact boundaries of

the Bhav , or its spread. Using this technique is neither

experimenting with the book nor any thing new or innovative ;

instead it is in keeping with its tradition.

A person like me , who follows the book so religiously and quotes

so profusely from it, would never think of adopting a method that

either violates the spirit of the book or in any manner demeans it.

However , using modern tools and methods , by no stretch of

imagination, could be treated as a sacrilege .

Sincerely,

Priya

lalkitab , Jai Nahata <jaynahata@g...> wrote:

> Dear Rajinder ji,

>

> As ever your mail was a valuable source of reference and knowledge.

But

> respectfully I disagree with you on this. No doubt Lal Kitab was

written as

> to keep it simplest possible but nowhere is it written that it

can't

> be/should not be refined or mathematical techniques applied. In

those days

> when it was written there were no computers or swiss observatories

and

> calculations were a cumbersome task which is not now. Therefore a

method

> would have been required which is simple and effective. Thus Lal

KItab was

> born. But this does not implies that it can never be developed. It

is just

> like saying that classical texts ask to cast chart on land after

sprinkling

> Ganga Jal so we do not approve computer based charts. Is it ?

> Sir, it has been found by most revered names of Astrological

fraternity that

> Rasi chart does not give true results reason being that it is just

another

> divisional chart. It shows only tendencies and not the complete

results.

> That is why it has been stressed upon by our great sages to rely on

> Bhava Chalit is a scientific method to refine a chart as Rasi chart

just

> tells you in which sign a planet is in. It hypothesises that no

matter at

> what time do you born or degree of ascendant, a Bhava will start

from 0 and

> will end at 30 degrees of a sign. Is it acceptable ? I suppose not.

> Regarding use of Bhava Chalit in Lal KItab I believe instead of

discarding

> it at face itself we all should give it a try without any preset

mindset or

> result. Cause generally we se what we want to see. Only in this way

we could

> be serving a divine treatise called LAL KITAB.

>

> Best regards

>

> Jai

> On 6/6/05, Rajinder Bhatia <rajinderbhatia2002> wrote:

> >

> > Dear BhooshanJee,

> > If this were a classical astrology forum, I would be putting my

> > ignorance on public display by saying that *Bhavspashta/Chalit

*etc. are

> > un-needed techniques. *However, on this particular forum, we wish

to

> > discuss* *strictly LalKitab based astrology*. *You and others

vouching for

> > a " more accurate means of calculating planetary position " seem to

be missing

> > that most important point. Kindly read on.*

> > When it comes to mathematical calculations, LalKitab tries to

keep things

> > as simple as possible. All are familiar with the

lines " ...*raashee ChhoD

> > nakshattar bhoolaa, na hee koyee panchaang liyaa... " * so it has

no

> > provision (and need) for any of the " advanced and refined

techniques. "

> > LalKitab has basically been written for someone with minimal

mathematical

> > knowledge and *there is NO need to go beyond the very basic chart

also

> > known as Rashi Chart.* I fully appreciate your concern for going

the extra

> > mile to get the most accurate planetary position (and thus use *

> > grahaspashta/chalit*.) However, even in classical astrology, the

*Rasi

> > chart and Grahaspasht/Chalit chart are two separate and distinct

entities

> > and the Rashi chart does not get discarded in favor of Chalit

chart. * You

> > are ignoring the Rasi chart altogether and are jumping on to

*Grahaspashta

> > * directly. *This makes the horoscope (and thus the

interpretation and the

> > remedial measures) totally inaccurate when viewed in the light of

LalKitab

> > principles.*

> > LalKitab was formulated with simplicity in mind - there are no

esoteric

> > calculations involved ever. *The approach of taking into

consideration

> > garhaspashta or chalit is like using aviation grade high octane

fuel for a

> > car designed to run on diesel fuel - it either won't work or will

cause

> > serious damage to the engine.*

> > I have been fortunate enough to have my family's horoscopes

cast and

> > verified by Pandit Roop Chand Jee himself (and later Pt Som Dutt

Jee has

> > cast/verified/analyzed numerous horoscopes for my friends and

family ) -

> > never have they ever used *bhavspashta* techniques because there

is no

> > need for it this *ilm*. When in doubt about a certain planet,

techniques

> > similar to " Tewe *kee aasaan durustee " * (1952 edition - Farmaan

12) are

> > used. This approach is non-mathematical and is based on matching

the actual

> > " *haalaat*. "

> > Interestingly, I tried experimenting with your favorite

technique on many

> > of the horoscopes that Pt Roop Chand Jee had charted for me and

had

> > authenticated/verified (including my own.) In my own horoscope,

when I apply

> > *Bhavspasht*, two planets move out to different houses, and I

know that

> > according to LalKitab principles (and what has happened to me

throughout my

> > life) the move is not at all justified for my *Janma/Rashi*

chart.

> > I decided to take an impartial case to test my hypothesis

further by taking

> > a concrete example from LalKitab (1952) that all can verify for

themselves

> > (ArunSanhita may have it too, I don't know.) On page 195, a

horoscope has

> > been discussed. This was charted, verified and analyzed by Pt

Roop Chand

> > Jee. To create this chart, I used a software program (don't have

the 1936

> > almanac to go that far back in time) to calculate the Rashi Chart

and the

> > results are as follows:

> >

> > Rasi

> > +----------+

> > | \ *Ma* / \ / |

> > | \ Su / \ / |

> > | \ / \ / |

> > | \ / Me \ / |

> > | \ / \ / |

> > | x *Sa* As x Ra |

> > | / \ / \ Ju |

> > | / \ Ve / \ |

> > | / \ / \ |

> > | x Mo |

> > | \ / \ / |

> > |Ke x x |

> > | / \ / \ |

> > +--------+

> >

> > March 14, 1936

> > 5 AM Lahore Cantt

> > RASHI KUNDALI (Made by Pt Roop Chand Jee in

> > LalKitab 1952 Farmaan Number 12)

> > *The above given horoscope matches exactly with the one given in

> > LalKitab.

> > *==============================================================

> > Now let us draw a grahaspashta/Chalit chart for the same

horoscope. The

> > following chart is given:

> >

> > Bhava/Chalit Chakra D-1 (B)

> > +--------+

> > | \ *Sa* / \ / |

> > | \ Su / \ / |

> > | \ / \ / |

> > | \ / Me \ / |

> > | \ / \ / |

> > |*Ma* x As x Ra Ju |

> > | / \ / \ |

> > | / \ Ve / \ |

> > | / \ / \ |

> > | / \ 11 / \ |

> > | / \ / \ |

> > | x Mo |

> > | \ / \ / |

> > |Ke x x |

> > | / \ / \ |

> > +------+

> >

> > CHALIT/BHAV SPASHTA

> > *Mars moves to the THIRD from the SECOND house

> > Saturn moves to the SECOND from the first.*

> > Do you think that the second horoscope would be more accurate

per

> > LalKitab methodology? Please do keep in mind that the Rasi chart

has been

> > charted, verified and published by Pt Roop Chand Jee himself. I

can produce

> > more examples from LalKitab (so can you.)

> > Based on this, one can clearly see that the *bhavspashata*

methodology *in

> > reference to LalKitab analysis* is seriously flawed and the

remedial

> > measures based on this faulty charting method are either useless

or

> > downright DANGEROUS.

> > I invite everyone's comments on this.

> > Respectfully submitted,

> > Rajinder Bhatia

> > =======================================

> > *bhooshanpriya <bhooshanpriya>* wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhatia ji,

> >

> > Bhav spashtha is a mathematical technique and like all mathematic

> > techniques is not system specific. It can be used in any system

of

> > astrology. You would be aware that astrology has a very well

> > developed mathematics , if some people don't know it , I can't

help.

> > I use it because I am familiar with it.

> >

> > A Lagna lasts for two hours {approx}and every body born during

those

> > two hours , running into thousands , will have the same planetary

> > positions . But they do not have the same identical lives. The

rishis

> > had realized this phenomena and evolved a mathematical technique

> > known as bhav-spashtha. As the name suggests it demarcates the

> > boundaries of a bhav . A planet , while being in the same rasi ,

> > could move to another bhav .

> >

> > What you have talked is the transit of planets from one rasi to

> > another. Bhav spashtha is entirely a different thing. If you had

used

> > the technique , you would know.

> >

> > Your taking a `strong exception' to my using a mathematical

technique

> > sounded like some one saying ` why do you use a computer for

> > computation and not an abacus?' I can't help if other Lal

Kitabists

> > either don't know these techniques or don't use them.

> > Using a mathematical technique to know the boundaries of a bhav ,

is

> > not mixing the systems. I use bhav spashtha technique to

ascertain

> > the boundaries of a bhav for every horoscope I analyze.

> >

> > I do not mix the two systems. I analyze the planets based on the

> > principles of Lal Kitab and devise the upaya for them again based

on

> > Lal kitab. As I have said many times before , I use the concepts

of

> > traditional astrology for confirmation and refinement . It is all

the

> > better if the major points of analysis are confirmed through

other

> > systems also . The possibility of the error of the judgment is

> > minimized if not eliminated altogether.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > Priya

> >

> > ------------------------------

> > Mail Mobile

> > Take Mail with you!

<http://us.rd./evt=31132/*http://mobile./learn/mail>

Check email on your mobile phone.

> > ------------------------------

> > *

June 6, 2005

Hello priya ji,

well I already posted my reply before reading this one,anyways this

post reads to me more modest and subject related,specially I was more

impressed by the language used,well had I known earlier that the

readers and members are that much learned to understand expert

language,I would have tried before to inculcate my word power as

well, anyways better late than never,only hoping that prob seekers

and learners wont need any dictionary along with reading about

remedies and analysis.

Excellent ,gr8-lucky to have been in company of people like you, as

I'm also much moved by literature and arts.

Plz do me a favour as well ,with your profound and adept knowledge

prognosticate about the following chart---

dob-- 9/10/1950

tob-- 14:30

pob-- delhi

the native is worried about his living,what should he do now, the

remedies,and money sector.

Thanks in advance

Sincerely

NISHANT

lalkitab , " bhooshanpriya " <bhooshanpriya>

wrote:

> Dear Rajinder Bhatia ji,

>

> I couldn't have said better than Nahata ji. Bhav-spashtha technique

> is for accuracy and in no way pollutes the pristine soul of the

> system. Yes , I agree that a sidhdh purush like Pt Roop Chand

Joshi

> ji didn't need any of these techniques. I know of cases where he

> looked at a photograph and predicted things in minute details. But

> then Pt Roop Chand ji could do it , not mortals like us. We need

> every tool to be accurate lest our reading should go wrong and harm

> some one.

>

> You know it very well that Pt Roop Chand ji based the entire book

on

> the system of Bhav { or Khana as he called it } and not on Rasi.

Had

> the two been identical or interchangeable he would never have

> suggested to erase the Rasi and number the houses all over again.

It

> couldn't have been just to say that the house number one belongs to

> Mars [ Aries ] . The entire procedure was to make us use the system

> of Bhav over the system of Rasi . In other words he wanted that

the

> Bhav should be studied instead of the Rasi. If we do not work out

the

> Bhav , then in effect , we would be studying the Rasi and not the

> Khana or Bhav . I study the Khana or the Bhav as expected and not

> the Rasi. ; thus following the book in its true spirit .

> I use the Bhav –spastha technique to know the exact boundaries of

> the Bhav , or its spread. Using this technique is neither

> experimenting with the book nor any thing new or innovative ;

> instead it is in keeping with its tradition.

>

> A person like me , who follows the book so religiously and quotes

> so profusely from it, would never think of adopting a method that

> either violates the spirit of the book or in any manner demeans it.

> However , using modern tools and methods , by no stretch of

> imagination, could be treated as a sacrilege .

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Priya

>

lalkitab , Jai Nahata <jaynahata@g...> wrote:

> > Dear Rajinder ji,

> >

> > As ever your mail was a valuable source of reference and

knowledge.

> But

> > respectfully I disagree with you on this. No doubt Lal Kitab was

> written as

> > to keep it simplest possible but nowhere is it written that it

> can't

> > be/should not be refined or mathematical techniques applied. In

> those days

> > when it was written there were no computers or swiss

observatories

> and

> > calculations were a cumbersome task which is not now. Therefore a

> method

> > would have been required which is simple and effective. Thus Lal

> KItab was

> > born. But this does not implies that it can never be developed.

It

> is just

> > like saying that classical texts ask to cast chart on land after

> sprinkling

> > Ganga Jal so we do not approve computer based charts. Is it ?

> > Sir, it has been found by most revered names of Astrological

> fraternity that

> > Rasi chart does not give true results reason being that it is

just

> another

> > divisional chart. It shows only tendencies and not the complete

> results.

> > That is why it has been stressed upon by our great sages to rely

on

> related

> > divisional charts which is not happening anyway.

> > Bhava Chalit is a scientific method to refine a chart as Rasi

chart

> just

> > tells you in which sign a planet is in. It hypothesises that no

> matter at

> > what time do you born or degree of ascendant, a Bhava will start

> from 0 and

> > will end at 30 degrees of a sign. Is it acceptable ? I suppose

not.

> > Regarding use of Bhava Chalit in Lal KItab I believe instead of

> discarding

> > it at face itself we all should give it a try without any preset

> mindset or

> > result. Cause generally we se what we want to see. Only in this

way

> we could

> > be serving a divine treatise called LAL KITAB.

> >

> > Best regards

> >

> > Jai

> > On 6/6/05, Rajinder Bhatia <rajinderbhatia2002> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear BhooshanJee,

> > > If this were a classical astrology forum, I would be putting

my

> > > ignorance on public display by saying that *Bhavspashta/Chalit

> *etc. are

> > > un-needed techniques. *However, on this particular forum, we

wish

> to

> > > discuss* *strictly LalKitab based astrology*. *You and others

> vouching for

> > > a " more accurate means of calculating planetary position " seem

to

> be missing

> > > that most important point. Kindly read on.*

> > > When it comes to mathematical calculations, LalKitab tries to

> keep things

> > > as simple as possible. All are familiar with the

> lines " ...*raashee ChhoD

> > > nakshattar bhoolaa, na hee koyee panchaang liyaa... " * so it has

> no

> > > provision (and need) for any of the " advanced and refined

> techniques. "

> > > LalKitab has basically been written for someone with minimal

> mathematical

> > > knowledge and *there is NO need to go beyond the very basic

chart

> also

> > > known as Rashi Chart.* I fully appreciate your concern for

going

> the extra

> > > mile to get the most accurate planetary position (and thus use *

> > > grahaspashta/chalit*.) However, even in classical astrology,

the

> *Rasi

> > > chart and Grahaspasht/Chalit chart are two separate and

distinct

> entities

> > > and the Rashi chart does not get discarded in favor of Chalit

> chart. * You

> > > are ignoring the Rasi chart altogether and are jumping on to

> *Grahaspashta

> > > * directly. *This makes the horoscope (and thus the

> interpretation and the

> > > remedial measures) totally inaccurate when viewed in the light

of

> LalKitab

> > > principles.*

> > > LalKitab was formulated with simplicity in mind - there are no

> esoteric

> > > calculations involved ever. *The approach of taking into

> consideration

> > > garhaspashta or chalit is like using aviation grade high octane

> fuel for a

> > > car designed to run on diesel fuel - it either won't work or

will

> cause

> > > serious damage to the engine.*

> > > I have been fortunate enough to have my family's horoscopes

> cast and

> > > verified by Pandit Roop Chand Jee himself (and later Pt Som

Dutt

> Jee has

> > > cast/verified/analyzed numerous horoscopes for my friends and

> family ) -

> > > never have they ever used *bhavspashta* techniques because

there

> is no

> > > need for it this *ilm*. When in doubt about a certain planet,

> techniques

> > > similar to " Tewe *kee aasaan durustee " * (1952 edition - Farmaan

> 12) are

> > > used. This approach is non-mathematical and is based on

matching

> the actual

> > > " *haalaat*. "

> > > Interestingly, I tried experimenting with your favorite

> technique on many

> > > of the horoscopes that Pt Roop Chand Jee had charted for me and

> had

> > > authenticated/verified (including my own.) In my own horoscope,

> when I apply

> > > *Bhavspasht*, two planets move out to different houses, and I

> know that

> > > according to LalKitab principles (and what has happened to me

> throughout my

> > > life) the move is not at all justified for my *Janma/Rashi*

> chart.

> > > I decided to take an impartial case to test my hypothesis

> further by taking

> > > a concrete example from LalKitab (1952) that all can verify for

> themselves

> > > (ArunSanhita may have it too, I don't know.) On page 195, a

> horoscope has

> > > been discussed. This was charted, verified and analyzed by Pt

> Roop Chand

> > > Jee. To create this chart, I used a software program (don't

have

> the 1936

> > > almanac to go that far back in time) to calculate the Rashi

Chart

> and the

> > > results are as follows:

> > >

> > > Rasi

> > > +----------+

> > > | \ *Ma* / \ / |

> > > | \ Su / \ / |

> > > | \ / \ / |

> > > | \ / Me \ / |

> > > | \ / \ / |

> > > | x *Sa* As x Ra |

> > > | / \ / \ Ju |

> > > | / \ Ve / \ |

> > > | / \ / \ |

> > > | x Mo |

> > > | \ / \ / |

> > > |Ke x x |

> > > | / \ / \ |

> > > +--------+

> > >

> > > March 14, 1936

> > > 5 AM Lahore Cantt

> > > RASHI KUNDALI (Made by Pt Roop Chand Jee in

> > > LalKitab 1952 Farmaan Number 12)

> > > *The above given horoscope matches exactly with the one given

in

> > > LalKitab.

> > > *==============================================================

> > > Now let us draw a grahaspashta/Chalit chart for the same

> horoscope. The

> > > following chart is given:

> > >

> > > Bhava/Chalit Chakra D-1 (B)

> > > +--------+

> > > | \ *Sa* / \ / |

> > > | \ Su / \ / |

> > > | \ / \ / |

> > > | \ / Me \ / |

> > > | \ / \ / |

> > > |*Ma* x As x Ra Ju |

> > > | / \ / \ |

> > > | / \ Ve / \ |

> > > | / \ / \ |

> > > | / \ 11 / \ |

> > > | / \ / \ |

> > > | x Mo |

> > > | \ / \ / |

> > > |Ke x x |

> > > | / \ / \ |

> > > +------+

> > >

> > > CHALIT/BHAV SPASHTA

> > > *Mars moves to the THIRD from the SECOND house

> > > Saturn moves to the SECOND from the first.*

> > > Do you think that the second horoscope would be more accurate

> per

> > > LalKitab methodology? Please do keep in mind that the Rasi

chart

> has been

> > > charted, verified and published by Pt Roop Chand Jee himself. I

> can produce

> > > more examples from LalKitab (so can you.)

> > > Based on this, one can clearly see that the *bhavspashata*

> methodology *in

> > > reference to LalKitab analysis* is seriously flawed and the

> remedial

> > > measures based on this faulty charting method are either

useless

> or

> > > downright DANGEROUS.

> > > I invite everyone's comments on this.

> > > Respectfully submitted,

> > > Rajinder Bhatia

> > > =======================================

> > > *bhooshanpriya <bhooshanpriya>* wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Bhatia ji,

> > >

> > > Bhav spashtha is a mathematical technique and like all

mathematic

> > > techniques is not system specific. It can be used in any system

> of

> > > astrology. You would be aware that astrology has a very well

> > > developed mathematics , if some people don't know it , I can't

> help.

> > > I use it because I am familiar with it.

> > >

> > > A Lagna lasts for two hours {approx}and every body born during

> those

> > > two hours , running into thousands , will have the same

planetary

> > > positions . But they do not have the same identical lives. The

> rishis

> > > had realized this phenomena and evolved a mathematical

technique

> > > known as bhav-spashtha. As the name suggests it demarcates the

> > > boundaries of a bhav . A planet , while being in the same

rasi ,

> > > could move to another bhav .

> > >

> > > What you have talked is the transit of planets from one rasi to

> > > another. Bhav spashtha is entirely a different thing. If you

had

> used

> > > the technique , you would know.

> > >

> > > Your taking a `strong exception' to my using a mathematical

> technique

> > > sounded like some one saying ` why do you use a computer for

> > > computation and not an abacus?' I can't help if other Lal

> Kitabists

> > > either don't know these techniques or don't use them.

> > > Using a mathematical technique to know the boundaries of a

bhav ,

> is

> > > not mixing the systems. I use bhav spashtha technique to

> ascertain

> > > the boundaries of a bhav for every horoscope I analyze.

> > >

> > > I do not mix the two systems. I analyze the planets based on

the

> > > principles of Lal Kitab and devise the upaya for them again

based

> on

> > > Lal kitab. As I have said many times before , I use the

concepts

> of

> > > traditional astrology for confirmation and refinement . It is

all

> the

> > > better if the major points of analysis are confirmed through

> other

> > > systems also . The possibility of the error of the judgment is

> > > minimized if not eliminated altogether.

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >

> > > Priya

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

> > > Mail Mobile

> > > Take Mail with you!

>

<http://us.rd./evt=31132/*http://mobile./learn/mail>

> Check email on your mobile phone.

> > > ------------------------------

> > > *

June 7, 2005

Priya ji & Friends,

I believe that the way we are discussing on this topic, we can not reach to any conclusion. Rajinder ji has more purist view and Jay ji, Nishant ji and Priya ji has more research-oriented views. Anyways I would like to present my opinion first. According to me it is incorrect to use Bhava Spashata in Lal Kitab. Here are few of the reasons behind this -

1. The Bhava Spashata technique was there during Pt. Roop Chand Joshi ji's time. He lived till 1982 where even the computer software started appearing. But we see no sign of Bhava Spashta usage by him. He has very clearly given the methodology of casting LK chart and no where mentioned about Bhava Spashta.

2. Even if we accept your argument that mathematical techniques are improvisation on Lal Kitab then why not to use Cuspal house division system, divisional charts etc? These all are example of heavy usage of mathematics. Probably Joshi ji wanted to avoid all these things that's why he had eliminated them and IMHO there is no benefit of again start using them.

3. Saying that Joshi ji was the person with extra-ordinary capabilities and he didn't need these tools will again not be correct. All the books he has written were not for him but for others learning and he has lucidly explained all principles of Lal Kitab. If he would have thought that 'Bhava Spashta' is required by a ordinary person, he would have mentioned it.

These are my opinion only. We can only reach to conclusion after having a statistical study and verifying against what is written in Lal Kitab. I request everybody who is participating this thread to come up with analysis of any chart with and without using Bhava Spashta technique. I hope it will give us some conclusion.

Regards,

Punit Pandey

On 6/7/05, bhooshanpriya <bhooshanpriya wrote:

Dear Rajinder Bhatia ji,I couldn't have said better than Nahata ji. Bhav-spashtha techniqueis for accuracy and in no way pollutes the pristine soul of the

system. Yes , I agree that a sidhdh purush like Pt Roop Chand Joshiji didn't need any of these techniques. I know of cases where helooked at a photograph and predicted things in minute details. Butthen Pt Roop Chand ji could do it , not mortals like us. We need

every tool to be accurate lest our reading should go wrong and harmsome one.You know it very well that Pt Roop Chand ji based the entire book onthe system of Bhav { or Khana as he called it } and not on Rasi. Had

the two been identical or interchangeable he would never havesuggested to erase the Rasi and number the houses all over again. Itcouldn't have been just to say that the house number one belongs toMars [ Aries ] . The entire procedure was to make us use the system

of Bhav over the system of Rasi . In other words he wanted that theBhav should be studied instead of the Rasi. If we do not work out theBhav , then in effect , we would be studying the Rasi and not theKhana or Bhav . I study the Khana or the Bhav as expected and not

the Rasi. ; thus following the book in its true spirit .I use the Bhav –spastha technique to know the exact boundaries ofthe Bhav , or its spread. Using this technique is neitherexperimenting with the book nor any thing new or innovative ;

instead it is in keeping with its tradition.A person like me , who follows the book so religiously and quotesso profusely from it, would never think of adopting a method thateither violates the spirit of the book or in any manner demeans it.

However , using modern tools and methods , by no stretch ofimagination, could be treated as a sacrilege .Sincerely,Priya

lalkitab , Jai Nahata <jaynahata@g...> wrote:> Dear Rajinder ji,>> As ever your mail was a valuable source of reference and knowledge.But> respectfully I disagree with you on this. No doubt Lal Kitab was

written as> to keep it simplest possible but nowhere is it written that itcan't> be/should not be refined or mathematical techniques applied. Inthose days> when it was written there were no computers or swiss observatories

and> calculations were a cumbersome task which is not now. Therefore amethod> would have been required which is simple and effective. Thus LalKItab was> born. But this does not implies that it can never be developed. It

is just> like saying that classical texts ask to cast chart on land aftersprinkling> Ganga Jal so we do not approve computer based charts. Is it ?> Sir, it has been found by most revered names of Astrological

fraternity that> Rasi chart does not give true results reason being that it is justanother> divisional chart. It shows only tendencies and not the completeresults.> That is why it has been stressed upon by our great sages to rely on

related> divisional charts which is not happening anyway.> Bhava Chalit is a scientific method to refine a chart as Rasi chartjust> tells you in which sign a planet is in. It hypothesises that no

matter at> what time do you born or degree of ascendant, a Bhava will startfrom 0 and> will end at 30 degrees of a sign. Is it acceptable ? I suppose not.> Regarding use of Bhava Chalit in Lal KItab I believe instead of

discarding> it at face itself we all should give it a try without any presetmindset or> result. Cause generally we se what we want to see. Only in this waywe could> be serving a divine treatise called LAL KITAB.

>> Best regards>> Jai> On 6/6/05, Rajinder Bhatia <rajinderbhatia2002> wrote:> >> > Dear BhooshanJee,> > If this were a classical astrology forum, I would be putting my

> > ignorance on public display by saying that *Bhavspashta/Chalit*etc. are> > un-needed techniques. *However, on this particular forum, we wishto> > discuss* *strictly LalKitab based astrology*. *You and others

vouching for> > a " more accurate means of calculating planetary position " seem tobe missing> > that most important point. Kindly read on.*> > When it comes to mathematical calculations, LalKitab tries to

keep things> > as simple as possible. All are familiar with thelines " ...*raashee ChhoD> > nakshattar bhoolaa, na hee koyee panchaang liyaa... " * so it hasno> > provision (and need) for any of the " advanced and refined

techniques. " > > LalKitab has basically been written for someone with minimalmathematical> > knowledge and *there is NO need to go beyond the very basic chartalso> > known as Rashi Chart.* I fully appreciate your concern for going

the extra> > mile to get the most accurate planetary position (and thus use *> > grahaspashta/chalit*.) However, even in classical astrology, the*Rasi> > chart and Grahaspasht/Chalit chart are two separate and distinct

entities> > and the Rashi chart does not get discarded in favor of Chalitchart. * You> > are ignoring the Rasi chart altogether and are jumping on to*Grahaspashta> > * directly. *This makes the horoscope (and thus the

interpretation and the> > remedial measures) totally inaccurate when viewed in the light ofLalKitab> > principles.*> > LalKitab was formulated with simplicity in mind - there are no

esoteric> > calculations involved ever. *The approach of taking intoconsideration> > garhaspashta or chalit is like using aviation grade high octanefuel for a> > car designed to run on diesel fuel - it either won't work or will

cause> > serious damage to the engine.*> > I have been fortunate enough to have my family's horoscopescast and> > verified by Pandit Roop Chand Jee himself (and later Pt Som Dutt

Jee has> > cast/verified/analyzed numerous horoscopes for my friends andfamily ) -> > never have they ever used *bhavspashta* techniques because thereis no> > need for it this *ilm*. When in doubt about a certain planet,

techniques> > similar to " Tewe *kee aasaan durustee " * (1952 edition - Farmaan12) are> > used. This approach is non-mathematical and is based on matchingthe actual> > " *haalaat*. "

> > Interestingly, I tried experimenting with your favoritetechnique on many> > of the horoscopes that Pt Roop Chand Jee had charted for me andhad> > authenticated/verified (including my own.) In my own horoscope,

when I apply> > *Bhavspasht*, two planets move out to different houses, and Iknow that> > according to LalKitab principles (and what has happened to methroughout my> > life) the move is not at all justified for my *Janma/Rashi*

chart.> > I decided to take an impartial case to test my hypothesisfurther by taking> > a concrete example from LalKitab (1952) that all can verify forthemselves> > (ArunSanhita may have it too, I don't know.) On page 195, a

horoscope has> > been discussed. This was charted, verified and analyzed by PtRoop Chand> > Jee. To create this chart, I used a software program (don't havethe 1936> > almanac to go that far back in time) to calculate the Rashi Chart

and the> > results are as follows:> >> > Rasi> > +----------+> > | \ *Ma* / \ / |> > | \ Su / \ / |> > | \ / \ / |

> > | \ / Me \ / |> > | \ / \ / |> > | x *Sa* As x Ra |> > | / \ / \ Ju |> > | / \ Ve / \ |> > | / \ / \ |> > | / \ / \ |> > | / \ / \ |> > | x Mo |

> > | \ / \ / |> > | \ / \ / |> > | \ / \ / |> > | \ / \ / |> > | \ / \ / |> > |Ke x x |> > | / \ / \ |> > | / \ / \ |> > | / \ / \ |

> > | / \ / \ |> > | / \ / \ |> > +--------+> >> > March 14, 1936> > 5 AM Lahore Cantt> > RASHI KUNDALI (Made by Pt Roop Chand Jee in

> > LalKitab 1952 Farmaan Number 12)> > *The above given horoscope matches exactly with the one given in> > LalKitab.> > *==============================================================

> > Now let us draw a grahaspashta/Chalit chart for the samehoroscope. The> > following chart is given:> >> > Bhava/Chalit Chakra D-1 (B)> > +--------+

> > | \ *Sa* / \ / |> > | \ Su / \ / |> > | \ / \ / |> > | \ / Me \ / |> > | \ / \ / |> > |*Ma* x As x Ra Ju |> > | / \ / \ |> > | / \ Ve / \ |

> > | / \ / \ |> > | / \ 11 / \ |> > | / \ / \ |> > | x Mo |> > | \ / \ / |> > | \ / \ / |> > | \ / \ / |> > | \ / \ / |> > | \ / \ / |

> > |Ke x x |> > | / \ / \ |> > | / \ / \ |> > | / \ / \ |> > | / \ / \ |> > | / \ / \ |> > +------+> >> > CHALIT/BHAV SPASHTA

> > *Mars moves to the THIRD from the SECOND house> > Saturn moves to the SECOND from the first.*> > Do you think that the second horoscope would be more accurateper> > LalKitab methodology? Please do keep in mind that the Rasi chart

has been> > charted, verified and published by Pt Roop Chand Jee himself. Ican produce> > more examples from LalKitab (so can you.)> > Based on this, one can clearly see that the *bhavspashata*

methodology *in> > reference to LalKitab analysis* is seriously flawed and theremedial> > measures based on this faulty charting method are either uselessor> > downright DANGEROUS.

> > I invite everyone's comments on this.> > Respectfully submitted,> > Rajinder Bhatia> > =======================================> > *bhooshanpriya <bhooshanpriya>* wrote:

> >> > Dear Bhatia ji,> >> > Bhav spashtha is a mathematical technique and like all mathematic> > techniques is not system specific. It can be used in any systemof

> > astrology. You would be aware that astrology has a very well> > developed mathematics , if some people don't know it , I can'thelp.> > I use it because I am familiar with it.> >

> > A Lagna lasts for two hours {approx}and every body born duringthose> > two hours , running into thousands , will have the same planetary> > positions . But they do not have the same identical lives. The

rishis> > had realized this phenomena and evolved a mathematical technique> > known as bhav-spashtha. As the name suggests it demarcates the> > boundaries of a bhav . A planet , while being in the same rasi ,

> > could move to another bhav .> >> > What you have talked is the transit of planets from one rasi to> > another. Bhav spashtha is entirely a different thing. If you hadused

> > the technique , you would know.> >> > Your taking a `strong exception' to my using a mathematicaltechnique> > sounded like some one saying ` why do you use a computer for> > computation and not an abacus?' I can't help if other Lal

Kitabists> > either don't know these techniques or don't use them.> > Using a mathematical technique to know the boundaries of a bhav ,is> > not mixing the systems. I use bhav spashtha technique to

ascertain> > the boundaries of a bhav for every horoscope I analyze.> >> > I do not mix the two systems. I analyze the planets based on the> > principles of Lal Kitab and devise the upaya for them again based

on> > Lal kitab. As I have said many times before , I use the conceptsof> > traditional astrology for confirmation and refinement . It is allthe> > better if the major points of analysis are confirmed through

other> > systems also . The possibility of the error of the judgment is> > minimized if not eliminated altogether.> >> > Sincerely,> >> > Priya> >

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