Establishing some facts about the Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs

January 28, 2009

To the List,

Prior to further pursuing my exploration of the Sign Meanings of the

Sidereal Zodiac (and the Tropical Zodiac, be inference) I have decided

that it might be useful to have some summary statements on the basics

of Sidereal Astrology, and its relation to Tropical Astrology. These

are not inclusive, other factors may need to be addressed. My purpose

here is to start with some clear, accepted statements from which

concepts can be developed that pertain to the use and construction of

" signs. "

Dave

*****************************************************************

A Series Of Statements About The Sidereal & Tropical Zodiacs

David aka Dadsnook, January 2009

** Introductory Statement

In recent weeks on the Sidereal Astrology site, a discussion

pertaining to Sidereal Sign meanings has taken place. It has been

noted that there seems to be a lack of complete and well thought out

Sidereal Sign meanings available in books and on the Internet.

Further, there seems to be no commonly accepted and underlying

rational for developing such interpretive meanings. This might also be

true for the Tropical Zodiac Signs, although there is a great volume

of Sun-Sign material that has been written. However, the

Tropicalists, like the Siderealists, have no basic and widely accepted

statement of what constitutes a Sign's meanings.

This Discussion Model seeks to initiate a dialog between those having

various views on this subject so as to seek out a framework for

defining just what a sign consists of in terms of its meanings and

applications to astrological charts.

** Established " Basics " of Astrology

In this section I am seeking to identify and somewhat define the basic

astrological factors that have been constant over long periods of

time, and which we might all/mostly accept as each being a

building-block of astrology or a " truism " of some consensus.

Precession can be defined as a phenomena of the Earth's rotational

axis being tilted relative to the planet's orbital plane about the

Sun, this " tilt " describing a circle that requires some 25,000 years

of time to pass before returning to any given " starting point. " The

tilt of the Earth's axis, Earth's orbital period about the Sun, and

Earth's daily rotational speed combine such that the Sun appears to

gradually move northward and southward over a year's time relative to

the Earth's equator. The Sun's ecliptical path shows the Sun at

midday ascending to higher or lower heights during the seasonal

changes. As the Sun appears to move through the star-field, its path

defines a narrow band of space in which the planets appear to move in

their individual orbits. The Sun's crossing each spring at the

intersection of the orbital plane and the tilted ecliptic plane marks

the Vernal Equinox – and the " start " of the Tropical Zodiac's sign of

Aries. Because of the precessional factor, this Vernal Equinox points

slips backwards across the star-field, actually " regressing " in terms

of its apparent star-background position.

The Precessional Ages of recorded history have included the age of the

Bull (Taurus), the Ram (Aries), and currently the Fish (Pisces). Each

of the ages, lasting some 2000+ years, has been marked by a

cultural-social " theme " that is recognized by most students of

history. Some claim that these few recorded " ages " are part of a

great cycle of ages that have led from great learning and prosperity

to abject misery and intellectual darkness and then back again—this

may or may not be. It does seem acceptable that the Bull, Ram and

Fish periods are indicative of an actual historical theme.

The Star Field has been endowed over history with archetypical myths

and meanings, both for individual stars and star-patterns

(constellations defined by pictorial images). These images have

multi-cultural similarities common to many areas of the globe. These

myths and images have served to preserve a countries/cultures history

and myths, and have served as inspirational and teaching tools as well

as preserving that history and those myths for us, today.

Sidereal is a term which, by definition, relates to observational and

measuring activities related to the solar system and its components,

stars and the universe as a whole.

Tropical, as an astrological term, relates to an earth-based platform

for observational and measuring activities. The several Earth-related

coordinate systems facilitate astrological charting (as often

practiced) as well as general mapping and measuring needs.

Ancient historical records indicate that observational

astronomy-astrology was sidereal in its measurements and usage. This

applied to the mid-eastern, far-eastern and Egyptian cultures prior to

the Greek period (prior to 400 BC). This is not to say that the

practice of astrology was constant between the several civilizations

of that era or that astrology of those days was in any way similar to

more modern practices.

The adventurism of the Greeks via invasions led to a homogenization

and fractionalization of astrological knowledge. Astrological

records, knowledge and practices were disrupted, fragmented and

dispersed over the mid-east and far-east. This led to a degree of

confusion for all parties, especially the for the Greeks. While the

issue of precession was known earlier by other cultures, the Greeks

established the Tropical Zodiac at the time when it was more or less

synchronized with the Sidereal Zodiac.

Both zodiacs, or versions of them, co-existed over a significant span

of time. The Indians seem to have been pushed to the Tropical Zodiac

by the Greeks, only to later re-adopt a variant of the Sidereal Zodiac

while retaining some Tropical practices. Europe continued to use the

Sidereal Zodiac to some extent into the Renaissance Period. The

translation of older texts popularized the Tropical Zodiac which

became increasingly used, that practice continuing into current periods.

Contention between the Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs has long existed.

The common view seems to be that the approximately 25 degree slide of

one versus the other zodiac in the current era means that only one

zodiac can be " correct " and that the other zodiac has to be " wrong. "

Transits to natal planets work " better " in terms of timing and effect

when precession is corrected for. This has been increasingly

recognized by many professional and capable astrologers.

Sidereal Solar Return charts, and derived Progressed Angles charts,

are strikingly effective in terms of timing and being interpretively

appropriate. In contemporary writings, this statement has been

recognized since the French astrologer Volguine noted in the Appendix

of his 1940's book on Solar Returns that the annual charts became

increasingly out of sync as the subject aged. This was an amazing

statement to put at the end of a very extensive text. Fagan's

popularization of the Sidereal Zodiac and the proper use of Solar

Returns confirmed this statement of Volguine.

****** end ******

January 28, 2009

At 02:16 AM 1/28/09 -0000, Dave wrote:

>To the List,

>Prior to further pursuing my exploration of the Sign Meanings of the

>Sidereal Zodiac (and the Tropical Zodiac, be inference) I have decided

>that it might be useful to have some summary statements on the basics

>of Sidereal Astrology, and its relation to Tropical Astrology. These

>are not inclusive, other factors may need to be addressed. My purpose

>here is to start with some clear, accepted statements from which

>concepts can be developed that pertain to the use and construction of

> " signs. "

>---------------------

Dave, I'm holding off a reply to your post until others have a chance to

respond. I'll only say now, however, that I have indeed laid out a logical

structure for the sidereal zodiac on my web site. I don't advertise or go

to conferences (thus, these ideas haven't been widely read), but so far no

one has faulted the theoretical outline discussed in a series of articles

(with example charts) on the site. Everything remains to be tested, of

course. As one example, the qualities of sidereal polarity reflect basic

concepts in the I CHING or 'Book of Changes' as well as modern

psychological findings.

The tropical framework seems to be mainly based on the seasons of the

northern hemisphere, polarity, the four elements and three qualities. The

planet-sign link has largely been lost. In a few cases (such as Mercury for

Gemini) the planet-sign relationship is given some emphasis. But the

Mercurial link is so weak in Virgo (supposedly the domicile and exaltation

sign of Mercury) that new rulers have been suggested.

Therese

January 29, 2009

Yes, and many people say Mercury is exalted in Aquarius, and falls in Leo, these

days. Some astrology students I have come across, and even a few astrologers

have no memory of Mercury ever being exalted in Virgo, it's own sign, in Western

Astrology. They often look at me like I made the whole thing up.

liberator_9

________________________________

Therese Hamilton <eastwest

Wednesday, January 28, 2009 1:44:49 PM

Re: Establishing some facts about the Tropical and

Sidereal Zodiacs