Looking for personality traits in a horoscope

January 20, 2009

Therese wrote:

> The problem with the personality appraoch is that the ancient astrologers

> didn't view charts in that way. They emphasized destiny and

> accomplishment.

> I've found the most important core personality traits to be much more in

> the navamsa rather than the natal chart. It's possible that the natal

> chart

> itself only deals with external concepts: If the person is likely to

> manifest his potential--his external behavior as apart from internal

> motivation, etc. But tropical astrology has used this external chart as a

> picture of motivation and personality. This may be incorrect.

Sari:

Often it's hard to separate the personality out of accomplishments. People

tend to do what interests them and what feels natural - an introverted

person is less likely to put him/herself to a profession where s/he must

deal with a lot of people, for example.

I completed today a study about retrograde planets - what kind of people

most often have them in general? I went throught the usual 130 samples from

ADB, and among the top-15 of those who most often had one or more out of

Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Venus or Mercury retrograde were these groups:

- Social activists

- Bigoted personalities

- Aggressive personalities

- Psychotic cases

- Assaulters

- Military pilots.

If we try to look for a general pattern, there would seem to be at least one

emerging: those with more retro planets than others seem to be in general

more unsocial, aggressive, unpredictable - retrogradation is traditionally

considered a debility, and in practice it really doesn't seem to be an

asset!

Another sub-group among these top-15 was those who have turned their back to

relationships and prefer lone work in front of the desk or computer:

- Architects

- Clerks / secretaries

- Programmers.

Again we have people who maybe don't feel so comfortable in social circles.

A retrograde planet is too passionate, too uncompromising, has too

unpolished angles to get well with others.

How about people with few retrograde planets? Here's one list from the

top-15 groups:

- People with exceptional minds

- Highly educated people

- Teachers

- Publishers / editors

- Religious / philosophical writers

- Magazine / newsletter writers

Here we have thinking, intellectual people. In the first group people didn't

stop to think, they had strong opinions and that was it. But these people

are probably more ready to consider alternative views and opinions and to

ponder things. Maybe they don't stop on the first idea that comes to their

mind, but they slow down and think.

Here's another list from the same top-15 sample of people with few

retrograde planets:

- Friendly / gregarious personalities

- Real estate agents

- Philanthropists

Note how, contrary to the previous often-retrograde groups, these people are

good with relationsips, they enjoy being with other people, they don's turn

their back on them. Again there is smoothness and easiness.

Finally still another list from the same non-retrograde top-15 sample:

- People with numerous sex partners

- Gay men.

Of course, to be politically correct I'm not saying that all gay men have

numerous sex partners. But they probably have averagely more than norm

heteros. Especially those in the first group, people with numerous sex

partners, *really* do like to be with people!

So, I wanted to give this as an example of how personality traits too are

visible in a horoscope, and I don't think ancients claimed otherwise. It's

this modern psychological tendency to search for hidden motivations that's

lacking - and for a good reason, IMO. It's a bit same than when looking for

previous lives in a horoscope. You can speculate anything you like because

we will never know how it really is (was).

Best, Sari

January 22, 2009

Hi Sari

Thanks for this wonderful piece of research on retro planets! Very

interesting.

I have thought a lot about this and not reached a conclusion so far.

From my tropical days I believed that retro planets were internalized

and weak as far as the outside affects go.

Lately I have come across vedic views that retro planets there are

actually considered even stronger than direct moving planets. A rough

thumb rule is a retro planet is three times as strong as a normal planet.

There are further variations on what the planet's desire is, as it

relates to the kind of retrogression. The various stages would be

planet has gone retro, gone stationary, has started to come out of

retro state but still not direct. I may have a link to those

explanations. They were on some vedic site and were detailed.

Meanwhile I have been struggling to reconcile the kind of results you

have mentioned with the above vedic view. My understanding so far is

that retro planets are indeed stronger in an internalized way and the

native does feel those affects very deeply. But since they are in a

state of processing those affects a lot and perhaps even consciously,

they don't really act on it.

My own Mars is retro and I have thought a lot about and despise use of

force. Although many times when I have felt pushed hard a surge of

anger, aggression and even violence comes from nowwhere which leaves

both me and others very surprised. To the best of my own conscious

knowledge I don't try to use them first of, even where many would deem

it appropriate. My Saturn is stationary which vedically is the most

powerful retro position. Though I want to socialize a lot but that

doesn't happen smoothly. I believe both vedic and tropical

explanations state that retro planets are about dealing with past life

energies, desires. Perhaps a western explanation is that the native

has misused some of those energies in the past and is processing them

to get them right this time around. The vedic explanation seems to be

that those desires were unfulfilled and hence deep emphasis on them.

Funny you mentioned the fighter pilots, I wanted to be one for several

years before I failed the tests and turned in a different direction.

Thanks for the lovely discussion, hope to hear more on this.

Cheers

Shiv

PS: Have there been already some thoughts shared here on the upcoming

solar eclipse. Would be interesting to talk about it.

, " Sari M " <gerdapp wrote:

>

> Therese wrote:

>

> > The problem with the personality appraoch is that the ancient

astrologers

> > didn't view charts in that way. They emphasized destiny and

> > accomplishment.

> > I've found the most important core personality traits to be much

more in

> > the navamsa rather than the natal chart. It's possible that the natal

> > chart

> > itself only deals with external concepts: If the person is likely to

> > manifest his potential--his external behavior as apart from internal

> > motivation, etc. But tropical astrology has used this external

chart as a

> > picture of motivation and personality. This may be incorrect.

>

> Sari:

>

> Often it's hard to separate the personality out of accomplishments.

People

> tend to do what interests them and what feels natural - an introverted

> person is less likely to put him/herself to a profession where s/he

must

> deal with a lot of people, for example.

>

> I completed today a study about retrograde planets - what kind of

people

> most often have them in general? I went throught the usual 130

samples from

> ADB, and among the top-15 of those who most often had one or more

out of

> Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Venus or Mercury retrograde were these groups:

> - Social activists

> - Bigoted personalities

> - Aggressive personalities

> - Psychotic cases

> - Assaulters

> - Military pilots.

>

> If we try to look for a general pattern, there would seem to be at

least one

> emerging: those with more retro planets than others seem to be in

general

> more unsocial, aggressive, unpredictable - retrogradation is

traditionally

> considered a debility, and in practice it really doesn't seem to be an

> asset!

>

> Another sub-group among these top-15 was those who have turned their

back to

> relationships and prefer lone work in front of the desk or computer:

> - Architects

> - Clerks / secretaries

> - Programmers.

>

> Again we have people who maybe don't feel so comfortable in social

circles.

> A retrograde planet is too passionate, too uncompromising, has too

> unpolished angles to get well with others.

>

> How about people with few retrograde planets? Here's one list from the

> top-15 groups:

> - People with exceptional minds

> - Highly educated people

> - Teachers

> - Publishers / editors

> - Religious / philosophical writers

> - Magazine / newsletter writers

>

> Here we have thinking, intellectual people. In the first group

people didn't

> stop to think, they had strong opinions and that was it. But these

people

> are probably more ready to consider alternative views and opinions

and to

> ponder things. Maybe they don't stop on the first idea that comes to

their

> mind, but they slow down and think.

>

> Here's another list from the same top-15 sample of people with few

> retrograde planets:

> - Friendly / gregarious personalities

> - Real estate agents

> - Philanthropists

>

> Note how, contrary to the previous often-retrograde groups, these

people are

> good with relationsips, they enjoy being with other people, they

don's turn

> their back on them. Again there is smoothness and easiness.

>

> Finally still another list from the same non-retrograde top-15 sample:

> - People with numerous sex partners

> - Gay men.

>

> Of course, to be politically correct I'm not saying that all gay men

have

> numerous sex partners. But they probably have averagely more than norm

> heteros. Especially those in the first group, people with numerous sex

> partners, *really* do like to be with people!

>

> So, I wanted to give this as an example of how personality traits

too are

> visible in a horoscope, and I don't think ancients claimed

otherwise. It's

> this modern psychological tendency to search for hidden motivations

that's

> lacking - and for a good reason, IMO. It's a bit same than when

looking for

> previous lives in a horoscope. You can speculate anything you like

because

> we will never know how it really is (was).

>

> Best, Sari

>

January 23, 2009

>My own Mars is retro and I have thought a lot about and despise use of

force. Although many times when I have felt pushed hard a surge of

anger, aggression and even violence comes from nowwhere which leaves

both me and others very surprised. To the best of my own conscious

knowledge I don't try to use them first of, even where many would deem

it appropriate.

Hi Shiv,

Have you noticed whether or not these things increase when transiting Mars

goes retro?

liberator_9

________________________________

Shiv <theblisswithin

Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:47:39 AM

Re: Looking for personality traits in a horoscope