Guest guest Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Therese wrote: > I think if we continue to try to statistically find psychological traits > for the signs, we may be barking up the wrong tree. But if we look at each > person's *life,* observable patterns or occupations, we might be on to > something. Sari: That's probably true. Maybe the signs are not so much about traits, but about environments the planets are in. I see a valid point in studying the strength of planets instead of signs, when definging characteristical features. The ascending sign may be an exception, it really seems to tell about the basic nature of a person. It laids the basis for the chart. But then the Sun for example - it's true that people with their Sun in less than about 22 degrees tropical Pisces really often are a bit dreamy, poetic, unfoused, different, artistic, " looking behind the curtain " etc. Those people have their Suns sidereally in Aquarius ruled by Saturn, which by nature is not dreamy or unfocused at all! Could it be that because the Sun is in an enemy sign, it withdraws? So it doesn't become " Aquarian-like " or " Saturn-like " , but it feels like being in an extremely hostile environment, contrary to it's basic nature, and so it withdraws and becomes less capable to function? Maybe we should interpret planets in signs in this way instead of coloring them with different traits according to signs they occupy? Therese wrote: I think to solve this Moon-Ascendant question we'll need to use the AstroDatabank. It's too involved to discuss without a number of actual horoscopes. Sari: I studied once chart in ADB with the Moon less than 5 degrees from the ascendant without other planets in the same sign. The list was quite surprising. There were quite lot of " tough guys and girls " . Manly, more or less ultra-cool types: Garth Allen aka. Donald Bradley (actually I don't know how " manly " he was, but loudmouthed, yes), Chet Baker ( " James Dean of jazz " , " behind his ultra-cool handsome facade lay something ominous, uspoken " from a net site), Jack Kerouac, Sergio Leone, Robert E. Zoller Some women with tough roles or imagos: Susan Sarandon, Sigorney Weaver, Martina Navratilova Showy blondes: Farrah Fawcett, Dolly Parton Creative fantasy makers: Lewis Carroll, Charles Chaplin I don't think that " emotion " is the main keyword that comes to mind. There is something else... Therese wrote: Can you tell me how you're understanding 'airy' at present? We'll see if it describes anything about Gerald's life. Sari: At present I understand it as a quite Saturnine, five in enneagram type element. Theoretical, aloof, intellectual, dry, a bit cynical, critical, analytical, distant. Not youthful, superficial or trendy like tropical air. Therese wrote: I think also that the concerns Venessa mentioned might come under 'causes' that can be associated with sidereal Capricorn: environmental concerns, wildlife conservation, human overpopulation. These are universal concerns that affect everyone on the planet. The myths of Saturn had much to do with the land. Sari: I agree. There's often indeed much action for better world and democracy in sidereal Capricorn. This always reminds me of Germaine Greer and her famous Green on revolution, Germaine on Love interview from the early 70's http://www.takver.com/history/sydney/greer1972.htm . Greer has her ascendant, Sun and Mercury in sidereal Capricorn. Therese wrote: Intriguing enough so I just ordered Zannos' book from an Amazon Marketplace seller. Around $10 if anyone else is interested. Sari: All the descriptions are not so fitting as the Sun, but they are still interesting. I guess the correct descriptions are about the Sun, Mercury and Saturn. But I suspect the others have changed places: Jupiter is actually Venus, Venus is actually the Moon, the Moon is actually a bit like Mars and Mars is actually Jupiter. Tell what you think, when you get the book. Therese wrote: Time to pull up Leo stelliums in ADB! And perhaps also charts with the Sun aspecting the Moon....and Sun on the ascendant. Sari: I studied once charts with the Sun on the ascendant, so I know what to expect. This was the first time when I started to suspect that Liz Greene's description of the Sun as " divine child " might have something in it. I haven't much chosen these pictures, just looked with ADB and Google and then photoshopped a bit. Here's Marc Almond, Dave Broadfoot, Claude Bragdon, Alan Cumming, Jerry Dunphy, Joan Fontaine and Benny Hill Don't they all have a certain a bit innocent look with them? Regards, Sari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 At 12:34 PM 9/3/06 +0300, Sari wrote: >What a pity, the pictures didn't enter the list. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sari, you might be able to post them in the files section of this site. I'm not an expert. Maybe someone can help you. I have posted charts in the past, but I don't remember how I did it. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Sari. The dreaminess and sometimes spaciness of trop. Pisces/Sidereal Aquarius I believe are Uranian traits. I think that trop astr. has confused Neptune and Uranus. Neptune is boundless, risk taking, unpredictable, adventurous. Think of the ocean that goes from being calm and peaceful one minute to stormy and treacherous the next. It seems to act on a whim, bada-bing, bada-bang! To me this sounds like Trop Aries/Sidereal Pisces. That sign changes its mind and its course of action in a nanosecond. Then we have Uranus, co-ruler of Aquarius. Uranus is the planet of the victim, the martyr, as well as the dreamer, the mystic, the one who seems to receive inspiration from somewhere in outer space. Of all planets, it is probably the least egotistical. ..Bettina _____ On Behalf Of Sari Metsovuori Sunday, September 03, 2006 1:12 AM Re: Re: Sidereal Pisces / sidereal Leo Therese wrote: > I think if we continue to try to statistically find psychological traits > for the signs, we may be barking up the wrong tree. But if we look at each > person's *life,* observable patterns or occupations, we might be on to > something. Sari: That's probably true. Maybe the signs are not so much about traits, but about environments the planets are in. I see a valid point in studying the strength of planets instead of signs, when definging characteristical features. The ascending sign may be an exception, it really seems to tell about the basic nature of a person. It laids the basis for the chart. But then the Sun for example - it's true that people with their Sun in less than about 22 degrees tropical Pisces really often are a bit dreamy, poetic, unfoused, different, artistic, " looking behind the curtain " etc. Those people have their Suns sidereally in Aquarius ruled by Saturn, which by nature is not dreamy or unfocused at all! Could it be that because the Sun is in an enemy sign, it withdraws? So it doesn't become " Aquarian-like " or " Saturn-like " , but it feels like being in an extremely hostile environment, contrary to it's basic nature, and so it withdraws and becomes less capable to function? Maybe we should interpret planets in signs in this way instead of coloring them with different traits according to signs they occupy? Therese wrote: I think to solve this Moon-Ascendant question we'll need to use the AstroDatabank. It's too involved to discuss without a number of actual horoscopes. Sari: I studied once chart in ADB with the Moon less than 5 degrees from the ascendant without other planets in the same sign. The list was quite surprising. There were quite lot of " tough guys and girls " . Manly, more or less ultra-cool types: Garth Allen aka. Donald Bradley (actually I don't know how " manly " he was, but loudmouthed, yes), Chet Baker ( " James Dean of jazz " , " behind his ultra-cool handsome facade lay something ominous, uspoken " from a net site), Jack Kerouac, Sergio Leone, Robert E. Zoller Some women with tough roles or imagos: Susan Sarandon, Sigorney Weaver, Martina Navratilova Showy blondes: Farrah Fawcett, Dolly Parton Creative fantasy makers: Lewis Carroll, Charles Chaplin I don't think that " emotion " is the main keyword that comes to mind. There is something else... Therese wrote: Can you tell me how you're understanding 'airy' at present? We'll see if it describes anything about Gerald's life. Sari: At present I understand it as a quite Saturnine, five in enneagram type element. Theoretical, aloof, intellectual, dry, a bit cynical, critical, analytical, distant. Not youthful, superficial or trendy like tropical air. Therese wrote: I think also that the concerns Venessa mentioned might come under 'causes' that can be associated with sidereal Capricorn: environmental concerns, wildlife conservation, human overpopulation. These are universal concerns that affect everyone on the planet. The myths of Saturn had much to do with the land. Sari: I agree. There's often indeed much action for better world and democracy in sidereal Capricorn. This always reminds me of Germaine Greer and her famous Green on revolution, Germaine on Love interview from the early 70's http://www.takver. <http://www.takver.com/history/sydney/greer1972.htm> com/history/sydney/greer1972.htm . Greer has her ascendant, Sun and Mercury in sidereal Capricorn. Therese wrote: Intriguing enough so I just ordered Zannos' book from an Amazon Marketplace seller. Around $10 if anyone else is interested. Sari: All the descriptions are not so fitting as the Sun, but they are still interesting. I guess the correct descriptions are about the Sun, Mercury and Saturn. But I suspect the others have changed places: Jupiter is actually Venus, Venus is actually the Moon, the Moon is actually a bit like Mars and Mars is actually Jupiter. Tell what you think, when you get the book. Therese wrote: Time to pull up Leo stelliums in ADB! And perhaps also charts with the Sun aspecting the Moon....and Sun on the ascendant. Sari: I studied once charts with the Sun on the ascendant, so I know what to expect. This was the first time when I started to suspect that Liz Greene's description of the Sun as " divine child " might have something in it. I haven't much chosen these pictures, just looked with ADB and Google and then photoshopped a bit. Here's Marc Almond, Dave Broadfoot, Claude Bragdon, Alan Cumming, Jerry Dunphy, Joan Fontaine and Benny Hill Don't they all have a certain a bit innocent look with them? Regards, Sari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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