More on Lunar Mansions

[Guest guest]

At 04:16 AM 5/2/06 -0000, Julia wrote:

>

>I had not long ago found your fine website and bookmarked it for

>frequent returns. Yes, I've had to conclude that the practical view is

>to see the mansions as harmonics, analogous to the signs themselves,

>and simply flavored by important stars found within them. R.H. Allen's

>sources spoke of several " junction stars " indicating effectively cusps

>of the mansions...

 

Hi Julia,

 

I think maybe the term 'junction stars' simply meant the main mansion

stars. I'll have to check Surya Siddhanta for that. I have a vague memory

that was the meaning. I had delayed replying to your post hoping to have

time to check SS, but haven't had time.

 

>but examining them shows up many problems and

>certainly would not produce even approximately equal divisions of the

>ecliptic.

 

Right. It's pretty obvious that the ancient nakshatras aren't today's lunar

mansions.

 

>...Surface checking of Vimsottari dashas with major dates in

>my own life doesn't give convincing results...

 

No. Probably the natal Moon is the only clue and perhaps other planets if

they're conjoined to the old nakshatra stars. I have no idea if the old

marking stars carry the traditional nakshatra symbolism or if somehow the

entire lunar mansion (Hindu) have that meaning. It would seem not... I've

found some correlation between the Vimshottari lord and the way the way the

mansions affect planets.

 

>Those do seem both intuitively valid and useful and may help to

>clarify our understanding of whole signs too, especially in showing

>what qualities link adjoining signs encompassed by a single mansion.

 

Also in breaking up sign meanings into sections that correlate with the

27-fold harmonics. These so seem valid sometimes. As just now Jupiter is in

Jupiter's mansion in Libra (legal affairs) and we're having the

demonstrations for illegal immigrants. Jupiter is currently conjunct Alpha

Libra. I've been watching news events, and there was no doubt that Beta

Libra was in the picture during the publicity about gay marriages. (The

symbolism of Libra plus the legality of Vishaka--Jupiter's mansion.)

 

>I'd be very happy to share the material ... it's in an Excel

>spreadsheet...

 

When I left my DOS computer, I left spreadsheets behind unfortunately.

 

>I was exploring the notion that that occurences might

>correspond roughly with " Platonic months " and that somewhat does check

>out at intervals of about 2144 years, with sometimes one or two

>jupiter-saturn conjuctions off of that in a particular series. It's

>intriguing to note the frequency of major historical events happening

>within the year or two following a " grand conjuction " ...

 

Just for clarity--you're talking about the exact conjunctions of

Jupiter-Saturn in signs of the zodiac? Do you have 'The Astrological

History of MashaAllah,' which deals with those conjunctions? I haven't gone

way back into history as you have. I haven't done anything with Platonic

months.

 

Or are you talking about stelliums in signs?

 

Thank you for your birth data, Julia. I was interested in similarities

between our charts because we have some of the same interests. There are

crossovers in Libra and Scorpio. I have a number of charts of sidereal

astrologers, and Libra seems to be a key sign for the sidereal approach.

I'm not sure why that would be, although I know that Rahu's mansion in

Libra is astrological.

 

If we relate planets to the ascendant degree, your Mercury in Svathi is the

strongest planet in your horoscope. But then you have the close cross-over

of navamsa Uranus to your natal ascendant, and the navamsa nodes fall on

your 4th-10th cusps. I believe that Rahu is also astrological as one of its

better meanings.

 

I've been very interested in the stars in recent years, and have printed

out all the star pages from Anne Wright's web site, changed the degrees to

the sidereal, and bound the pages by zodiac signs. It's very interesting

watching the news and noting when planets conjoin various stars. Now I

should have a spreadsheet for that!

 

>Yuma is home nowadays, and, I think, for keeps It's a delightful

> " border town " in many senses; hybrid of Arizona and California with a

>fine Sonoran seasoning in the mix. The flowing waters of the Colorado

>have literally created the place. The echo of Newport's sea is kind of

>imprinted, so the River is a soothing element indeed.

 

Sounds wonderful! But isn't it getting HOT now down there? (I don't know

the altitude of Yuma.) It's just comfortable now here in the northern

California mountains. I'd love to live near water, though. Neptune.

 

Well, anyhow, I wish we lived in the same town!

 

Therese

[Guest guest]

, therese hamilton

<eastwest wrote:

 

> I think maybe the term 'junction stars' simply meant the main

mansion stars. I'll have to check Surya Siddhanta for that. I have a

vague memory that was the meaning. I had delayed replying to your post

hoping to have time to check SS, but haven't had time.

 

I'd only encountered this in Allen's _Star Names - Their Lore and

Meaning_ (republication of original 1899 text). I'm not clear on his

precise sources other than those listed in a 9 pages of bibliography.

 

Here's a partial citation concerning Sheratan: " ... [beta] and [gamma]

constituted the 27th nakshatra Acvini, the Ashwins, or Horsemen ...

[alpha] sometimes was added to this lunar station, but [beta] always

was the junction star with the adjoining Bharani. About 400 years

before our era this superseded Krittika as leader of the nakshatras .

... " - p.82 of the Dover paperback edition.

 

That use of the term " junction star " is rather odd in such context. On

page 343, zeta piscium is described as " ... being the junction star

between Revati and Acvini... " It's not a very consistent definition,

when one comes to Chitra (Spica) and Arcturus (Swati), which fall at

179.10º and 179.49º repectively in Fagan-Bradley ecliptic longitude,

so it's more that Swati is lending its name to the following

nakshatra. The greater portion of stars do fall in the nakshatras of

the same name with pretty much any ayanamsha plus-or-minus 5 degrees

of the Fagan-Bradley, Lahiri or Krishnamurti values.

 

> As just now Jupiter is in Jupiter's mansion in Libra (legal affairs)

and we're having the demonstrations for illegal immigrants. Jupiter is

currently conjunct Alpha Libra. I've been watching news events, and

there was no doubt that Beta Libra was in the picture during the

publicity about gay marriages. (The symbolism of Libra plus the

legality of Vishaka--Jupiter's mansion.)

 

That's a really neat observation! Jupiter should line up again with

Beta Librae briefly around October 9 or so

 

> >I'd be very happy to share the material ... it's in an Excel

> >spreadsheet...

>

> When I left my DOS computer, I left spreadsheets behind

unfortunately.

 

I can probably coax it into PDF format or something else that works.

What I have includes:

 

(1) about 250 stars with calculated Fagan-Bradley longitudes &

ecliptic declinations for 2000.0 (can do them for any year or

ayanamsha value; proper motions are figured in)

 

(2) sheets that can calculate the years when such stars as Vega,

Thuban, Alderamin, Aspidiske et al., are closest to celestial poles

 

(3) listing of over 40 " grand convergences " by julian date, calendar

date, span in degrees, constellations, etc. I checked these out on

" Home Planet " and " The Sky " software.

 

Also played around with calculations on possible marker stars having

very small proper motions in the ecliptic longitude component.

Interestingly, Lambda Aquarii (Satabhisha) is a very good one, moving

only about 1 " of arc per 130 years. The most " stable " of all stars

near the Ecliptic is Pi Sagittarii, with a 1 " shift per 3000 years.

 

 

> Just for clarity--you're talking about the exact conjunctions of

> Jupiter-Saturn in signs of the zodiac? Do you have 'The Astrological

> History of MashaAllah,'.... ?

 

> Or are you talking about stelliums in signs?

 

I've heard of it but not seen a copy. These " grand conjunctions " all

involve a Jupiter-Saturn conjunction, but with the other five visible

lights thrown is as well (e.g. February 5, 1962, in a 17º wide

stellium in Capricorn). I remember that one mentioned in newspapers

back then. On May 3, 2000, all 7 were within a 26º span in Aries. I

think that the last time two such events were so close in time was in

the 1st century ... visually stunning at sunset or pre-dawn

>

 

> Thank you for your birth data, Julia. I was interested in

similarities between our charts because we have some of the same

interests. There are crossovers in Libra and Scorpio. I have a number

of charts of sidereal astrologers, and Libra seems to be a key sign

for the sidereal approach.

> I'm not sure why that would be, although I know that Rahu's mansion

in Libra is astrological.

 

That's certainly interesting! I tend to think of Rahu and Ketu as

something like stand-ins for Uranus and Neptune, respectively, though

maybe the analogy is not so good. It's really valuable to note the

observed attributes of people in sidereal signs, and it may show more

explicitly when sun and moon are conjunct. Venus rules ascendant, sun,

and moon in my case and kind of makes for a textbook picture in a few

ways. The sun in its 'fall' in Libra makes a lot of sense in that it

does seem that my energy levels are markedly " below average " and that

partnership makes worlds of difference in actually getting much

accomplished. My companion of many years is ALSO sun+moon in sidereal

Libra but with Sagittarius rising.

 

 

> I've been very interested in the stars in recent years, and have

printed out all the star pages from Anne Wright's web site, changed

the degrees to the sidereal, and bound the pages by zodiac signs. It's

very interesting watching the news and noting when planets conjoin

various stars. Now I should have a spreadsheet for that!

 

Anne Wright's site is really excellent; she presents much from Allen

(more history and general lore) and Robson, but with other opinions to

balance. The astronomical software is probably the easiest way to

follow planetary positions amid stars. " Home Planet " is a free

download. Charming for the cuckoo-clock sound effects too (the author

is Swiss)

 

>

> >Yuma is home nowadays ...

 

> Sounds wonderful! But isn't it getting HOT now down there? (I don't

know the altitude of Yuma.)

 

Well yes, triple digits began with May ... near sea level mostly. Half

the population (winter residents) took off for northern climes in the

past week or two. I'm always [quietly] complaining that the office is

too cold. Happily, favorite wraps do double duty in protecting from

ultraviolet rays outside and A/C indoors.

 

> Well, anyhow, I wish we lived in the same town!

 

Happily the Web is bringing the 'global village' to reality. Maybe we

can chat by phone sometime. Sending you good wishes for happiness &

health!

 

Julia

[Guest guest]

At 08:48 AM 5/3/06 -0000, Julia wrote:

>

>I'd only encountered this [junction stars] in Allen's _Star Names - Their

Lore and

>Meaning_ (republication of original 1899 text). I'm not clear on his

>precise sources other than those listed in a 9 pages of bibliography...

 

Hi Julia,

 

I won't be able to reply to your post until this evening, but I did find

this quote in Surya Siddhanta (p. 209):

 

" The identification of the asterisms is founded upon the positions of their

principal or junction-stars, as stated in the astronomical text-books, upon

the relative places of these stars in the groups of which they form a part,

and upon the number of stars composing each group... "

 

The term 'junction star' is inappropriate, but Surya Siddhanta is based on

Indian texts, and perhaps the translation needed something to be desired.

 

The font in SS is so small that I've had to photocopy the pages and enlarge

them in order to easily read the text.

 

Therese