Ptolemy/Schmidt/Hand on the Trigons

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List members,

 

I found this conversation between Sari and myself from July, 2005.

The problems with today's trigons are highlighted in this exchange.

There is a long post by Sari that can be viewed in late June posts,

2005 on this forum.

 

therese hamilton <eastwest

Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:39 pm

Re: Wet/Dry (reply to Sari)

 

Hi Sari,

 

It's taken me a while to get back to you. I discovered if an

astrologer wants to get really confused, begin to investigate

Aristotle and the Stoicson the elements and qualities. I found the

most comprehensive description for astrologers (This isn't to say

it's not confusing!) in Lee Lehman's CLASSICAL ASTROLOGY FOR MODERN

LIVING. So, sorting it all out I'll try to eply to your post.

 

At 04:57 PM 6/29/05 +0300, Sari wrote:

>(...)

>Ptolemy says that the Moon and Venus (= " the star of Aphrodite " )

>are feminine because of having their excess in the wet; and the Sun

>Saturn, Jupiter and Mars are traditionally (says Ptolemy) masculine.

>Putting Jupiter here sounds a bit illogical, because Jupiter is

>traditionally considered wet by nature.

 

Yes, placing planets in the masculine/feminine category doesn't

really work in relation to wet/dry definitions.

 

>Then there's a note by Schmidt saying that Ptolemy never refers to

>elements of fire, earth, water and air when he talks about qualities

of hot, cold, dry, wet - connecting qualitities to the astrological

>elements is a later invention. Schmidt writes: " Unfortunatly, later

>astrologers consistently converted Ptolemy's 'wet'

to 'water', 'cold' to 'earth', 'hot' to 'fire' and 'dry' to 'air'.

 

" The problem is that according to Aristotelian philosophy Water =

Cold and Wet, Earth = Cold and Dry, Fire = Hot and Dry and Air = Hot

and Wet. Or if one uses the Stoic system of elements, one gets Water

= Wet, Earth = Dry, Fire = Hot and Air = Cold. What astrologers did

was correct according to neither system of elements. "

 

This is important because it means that the tropical triplicities

are mis-labled, and their natures are misunderstood. After much

thought it seems to me that what can work well (at least in the

sidereal zodiac) is the Stoic categories. According to Aristotle Cold

and Hot are 'active.' This can basically mean self-motivating in

taking the initiative, which is how the sidereal Aries and Gemini

trigons operate. (Masculine and autonomous, acting from inner

motivation) This works out with the exaltations in relation to the

quality of the planets. So we get:

 

Aries, Leo, Sag: HOT: active and masculine (self-motivating, of the

mind)

Libra, Aqu, Gem: COLD: active and feminine (self-motivating, of the

feelings)

 

Taurus, Virgo, Capricorn: DRY: passive and masculine (receptive-of

the mind)

Scorpio, Pisces, Cancer: WET: passive and feminine (receptive-of the

feelings)

 

Aristotle's definitions of Wet-Dry:

--

DRY = algebraic, object oriented, solid, rigid, clear; enhances

distinctions (mental, 'of the mind') Rational

 

WET = spatial, geometric, liquid, assumes the shape of container,

fluid, formless, ambiguous, blurs distinctions (really it can

mean 'of the feelings') Irrational

 

>In another note Rob Hand writes: " The text does appear to be saying

that Hot = Masculine, Wet = Feminine, Dry = Masculine and Cold =

Feminine. If Ptolemy is completey in accord with standard

Aristotelianism in which Hot and Cold are both active whereas Wet and

Dry are both passive, then Ptolemy here classifies Hot = Active &

Masculine, Cold = Active & Feminine, Wet = Passive & Feminine and Dry

= Passive and Masculine. If this analysis is correct it has all

manner of interesting symbolic consequences for astrology. "

 

This works out if we understand 'masculine' as rational (mind

oriented) and 'feminine' as irrational (of the feelngs-emotions).

Then we can keep the standard male/female categories of the signs. So

we get:

 

Aries, Leo, Sag: HOT: active and masculine (self-motivating, of the

mind)

Libra, Aqu, Gem: COLD: active and feminine (self-motivating, of the

feelings)

 

Taurus, Virgo, Capricorn: DRY: passive and masculine (receptive-of

the mind)

Scorpio, Pisces, Cancer: WET: passive and feminine (receptive-of the

feelings)

 

(...)