Sign versus constellation

[Guest guest]

Hi, I am very new here (just d today) but I felt that the

description of this group should be kindly reconsidered, just as I

saw this phrase: In fact, most people aren't the " sign " they think

they are, but instead were born under the previous " sign. "

 

In fact, we all know that sidereal astrology makes the difference

between " signs " and " constellations " . In tropical astrology,

a " sign " is a 30 degrees area on the zodiacal circle, as measured

from the point of the previous position of the Sun at the Spring

Equinox. The Spring Equinox is a time reference, and the Sun

position at this moment changes slightly from one year to another.

Thus, the tropical signs are time references during the terrestrial

year. The tropical signs do not correspond to astronomical

constellations because of the precession.

 

In sidereal astrology, we do not have signs, but constellations,

since a sign always corresponds to the space where the corresponding

constellation is found in the sky. Thus, the sidereal zodiac gives

us a space reference, and here the constellations (so

called " signs " ) are space references.

 

So, in my opinion we are able to stop this confusion and accept that

tropical means time reference and sidereal means space reference.

I do so and I could work with both systems, without having to argue

which of them is the best. For now, I only use tropical, but I think

sidereal is coming to be more and more used, and not as a

replacement for tropical, but as a needed complement in time and

space.

 

Light, Peace & Love!

AdiM

http://adim.astrele.ro

[Guest guest]

At 04:21 PM 6/21/05 -0000, AdiM wrote:

>Hi, I am very new here (just d today) but I felt that the

>description of this group should be kindly reconsidered, just as I

>saw this phrase: In fact, most people aren't the " sign " they think

>they are, but instead were born under the previous " sign. "

>(....)

>

>In sidereal astrology, we do not have signs, but constellations,

>since a sign always corresponds to the space where the corresponding

>constellation is found in the sky...

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Hello Adi,

 

Actually what you wrote above isn't quite true. Like the Tropical signs,

the sidereal signs are 30 degrees in length. They only very roughly

correspond to the constellations, since the actual constellations are of

different lengths. The long constellation of Virgo actually takes up the

sign of Virgo and about 20 degrees of sidereal Libra as well. The small

constellation of Libra takes up only the final third of sidereal Libra plus

a few degrees of sidereal Scorpio. The first third of sidereal Aries is

occupied by the stars of the cord of Pisces, the fishes, and so on.

 

If you can, find a printed map of the sky and mark the 30 degree sidereal

signs on the map. You'll be able to see that sidereal signs are different

than the constellations. Begin the signs from Spica near the Virgo-Libra

junction and mark off the equal 30 degree signs from there. Many

inexpensive astronomy books will have diagrams of the ecliptic, the path of

the earth around the Sun, and the zodiac constellations.

 

Sidereal astrologers sometimes get into hot water when they call the signs

'constellations,' because anyone who knows the size and location of the 12

zodiac constellations will point out that they are all of different

lengths. Nevertheless, some sidereal astrologers prefer to call the

sidereal signs 'constellations.'

 

In India the term 'constellation' refers to the nakshatras or lunar mansions.

 

Sincerely,

Therese

[Guest guest]

-

" therese hamilton " <eastwest

Re: Sign versus constellation

 

 

> Actually what you wrote above isn't quite true. Like the Tropical signs,

> the sidereal signs are 30 degrees in length. They only very roughly

> correspond to the constellations, since the actual constellations are of

> different lengths. The long constellation of Virgo actually takes up the

> sign of Virgo and about 20 degrees of sidereal Libra as well. The small

> constellation of Libra takes up only the final third of sidereal Libra plus

> a few degrees of sidereal Scorpio. The first third of sidereal Aries is

> occupied by the stars of the cord of Pisces, the fishes, and so on.

--------------------

 

 

Hi, Therese,

 

you are absolutely right with what you wrote.

I wanted just to point out that the correspondance sign-constellation

is permanent in Sidereal because of the space reference used,

and is only symbolic in tropical, because of the time reference.

I think it might be a good idea for astrologers to find a solution that might

avoid

the usual confusion between tropical signs and sidereal signs.

Since the best explanation of the sidereal signs involves their correspondance

to the astronomical constellations, I think we may name them " constellations " ,

we can do that since we already know the Sun and the Moon as " planets " in

astrology,

although they are not viewed as planets in astronomy.

 

Light, Peace & Love!

AdiM

http://adim.astrele.ro

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

hi Adim,

 

As you are a new member too, let me extend my welcome to you.

 

Although I do not agree with your opinion, consider the matter you

brought, very interesting to clarify and discuss.

 

Personally I prefer the term " sidereal sign " , because the

constellations are a different space object, in fact the constellations

are the human's creation, they are eternal because they are made of

stars, but they are transitory because the human changes and makes new

constellations with the old ones, some constellations do not " survive "

since they are refund (recomposed) to form some other, each astronomer

has his own view on this. Ultimately a constellation is made as a

drawing such as a child at the beach makes designs with the grains of

sand. As you know today the astronomers have discovered that the

number of stars is much greater than what was estimated by their fellow

astronomers of passed centuries ... the stars are truly infinite in

number (NASA said :-) .

 

On the contrary, the sidereal signs, although they intersect at

different places with the tropical ones, depending on the fiducial

(ayanamsha) used, but within each system, these sid signs are eternal

in relation to their origin. However the constellations also have a

minimal movement then if many centuries have passed, the intersection

'sid sign vs constellation' also will be modified.

 

Here the custom is to say f.i. tropical aries, sidereal pisces ...

 

Welcome again and best wishes,

 

alhena c.

 

 

--- " AdiM@Astrele " <astrolog escribió:

 

 

 

-

" therese hamilton " <eastwest

Re: Sign versus constellation

 

 

> Actually what you wrote above isn't quite true. Like the Tropical

signs,

> the sidereal signs are 30 degrees in length. They only very roughly

> correspond to the constellations, since the actual constellations are

of

> different lengths. The long constellation of Virgo actually takes up

the

> sign of Virgo and about 20 degrees of sidereal Libra as well. The

small

> constellation of Libra takes up only the final third of sidereal

Libra plus

> a few degrees of sidereal Scorpio. The first third of sidereal Aries

is

> occupied by the stars of the cord of Pisces, the fishes, and so on.

--------------------

 

 

Hi, Therese,

 

you are absolutely right with what you wrote.

I wanted just to point out that the correspondance sign-constellation

is permanent in Sidereal because of the space reference used,

and is only symbolic in tropical, because of the time reference.

I think it might be a good idea for astrologers to find a solution that

might avoid

the usual confusion between tropical signs and sidereal signs.

Since the best explanation of the sidereal signs involves their

correspondance

to the astronomical constellations, I think we may name them

" constellations " ,

we can do that since we already know the Sun and the Moon as " planets "

in astrology,

although they are not viewed as planets in astronomy.

 

Light, Peace & Love!

AdiM

http://adim.astrele.ro