Anny Berckel's Comment to Dave/March 4, 1789

[Guest guest]

Dave may be right that the start time on March 4 was at 12:00 noon. I'd like to

know the research source for the determination of that time moment. I've been

led to believe from the Senate Journal that the start time was 11:00 am

(Sidereal ascendant: 29Taurus18).

 

Anny van Berckel <avbdk wrote:

 

Hi Dave Are you discussing a tropical chart here?

For the US Senate sidereal zodiac I have Aquarius in

top (Mc), Saturn conjunct MC, trine Jupiter in Gemini;

Sun in Aquarius conjunct Saturn in X, square Moon in

Taurus, but trine Jupiter in Gemini, however exact

square Eastpoint in Taurus.

Ascendant in Gemini trine Mars in IX Aquarius and square

Pars Fortunai in IV (Virgo).

I am quite curious why you take the tropicaal zodiac.

Sidereal is clear as glass for a chart of the USA Senate.

 

Message: 1

Tue, 24 May 2005 21:47:10 -0000

" jeolearn " <jeolearn

Re: Filibuster charts -- a first look

 

, " Dave " <dadsnook@c...>

wrote:

> I created a chart for the US Senate which met for the first time in

> New York City on March 4, 1789. I used a time of 12:01 PM as many

> meetings were set for noon when the city clocks struck. Using this

> date/time, the following is noted:

>

> 1) The MC is 11-42 Pisces, the ASC is at 4-33 Cancer.

> 2) Sun & Saturn are at the MC; Sun at 14-36 and Saturn at 13-39.

> This pair squares Moon at 11-28 Gemini in the 12th. Saturn is

often seen at/near the MC in politicians charts and successful

election charts.

> 3) Venus, Mars and Pluto are all in Aquarius in the 9th.

>

> Using the event of last evening where a Senate conflict over the

use of the filibuster, and a time of 8:00 pm to represent the

meeting of the 14 moderate Senators, this Washington DC chart

had these features:

> 4) The May 23, 2005 MC was essentially reversed and at the

founding chart's IC. The current Sun position was on the founding

nodal axis at the south node, the Moon opposite at the North Node

while Mars was transiting the founding Sun position at 16 Pisces

(showing the challenge and struggle over the past few days).

>

I haven't yet had the time to run all/some of the filibuster dates

> and events against Solar Returns and PSSR's -- I'd like to see if

> anyone had different data or suggestions about the basis chart for

> the US Senate. However, the chart I used did seem to have

> appropriate symbology and the current transits do support that chart

to a reasonable degree. This might be an interesting exercise.

Dave.

 

 

Hi Dave,

 

First the URLs I gave for filibuster data from www.senate.gov won't

work now, except by breaking them down, going to senate.gov first and

then, " art and history " .....

 

 

At

http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/Senate_Eight.htm

I found the following the info below and April 6 equally relevant.

Nelle

 

 

 

1787-1800

 

March 4, 1789

The Senate Eight

 

Federal Hall, New York City

 

" On March 4, 1789, eight conscientious senators overcame difficult

late winter travel conditions to reach the nation's temporary capital

in New York City. Ê Eleven states had by then ratified the

Constitution. ÊOut of the twenty-two eligible senators, the Senate

needed twelve present to achieve a quorum.

 

" At the appointed hour for the new government to begin, the eight

senators-elect climbed the stairs of New York's old city hall. Hoping

to convince Congress to make New York the nation's permanent capital,

city leaders had recently named that building Federal Hall (pictured)

and tripled its size. ÊWhen the " Senate eight " reached their elegant

chamber on the building's top story, the Senate literally became the

" Upper House. "

 

" All eight were men of distinction in government and politics. ÊMost

had served in their state legislatures and the Continental Congress.

Six were framers of the Constitution. Ê

 

" New Hampshire's John Langdon would become the Senate's first

president pro tempore. ÊConnecticut sent William Samuel Johnson and

Oliver Ellsworth. ÊAs a senator, Johnson would continue in his other

jobÑpresident of Columbia University. ÊOliver Ellsworth was best

known for his proposal at the Constitutional Convention creating the

Senate as a body that represented the states equallyÑthe so-called

Connecticut Compromise.

 

" Pennsylvania sent William Maclay, who would keep the only detailed

record of what happened behind the Senate's closed doors during the

precedent-setting First Congress. ÊHis Pennsylvania colleague was

Robert Morris. ÊOne of the nation's wealthiest men, Morris had helped

to finance the American Revolution and signed both the Declaration of

Independence and the Constitution. ÊMorris would end his career in

debtors' prison.

 

" Without a quorum, the eight senators wrote to their missing

colleagues " earnest[ly] requesting that you will be so obliging as to

attend as soon as possible. " ÊTwo weeks passed before William

Paterson ambled over from New Jersey and Richard Bassett arrived from

Delaware. ÊThis left the Senate two members short of a quorum, as the

House of Representatives waited impatiently on the floor below.

Finally, on April 6, the necessary twelfth member arrived. ÊThe

Senate then turned to its first order of businessÑcertifying the

election of George WashingtonÑfive weeks after his presidential term

had officially begun.

 

" This delay created the first opportunity in American history for

those critical of the Senate's slower pace to charge that its manner

of doing business threatened a constitutional crisis. ÊIt would not

be the last such opportunity. "

 

 

 

 

 

 

______________________

______________________

 

Message: 2

Wed, 25 May 2005 14:48:42 -0000

" Dave " <dadsnook

Filibuster charts -- second look

 

Thank you for the information. The April 6, 1789 chart, set for 12:01

PM in NYC yields an MC of 16-59 Aries and an ASC of 1-30 Leo. Like

all " noon " charts, Sun isat 17-18 Aries conjunct the MC, Uranus is on

the ASC angle at 0-45 Leo, Rx, Neptune is on the IC at 22-04 Libra.

Jupiter in the 12th at 20-32 Cancer completes a T-Square with Sun

opposite Neptune.

 

It will take some time to consider the meaning of both these dates,

the first meeting and the first quorum meeting, and to then test some

of the filibuster events. For the last Monday evening agreement

chart, the Quorum Sun is at the Agreement S.Node -- placing the T-

square on the nodal axis. Otherwise not much makes a strong first

impression.

 

Again, thanks. Dave.

 

 

 

 

 

 

______________________

______________________

 

 

" How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " -----

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

So quick to grab my attention in the 11:00 am for the Senate is the right up

front: ASC/Node = Moon, also transit Pluto on its 7th. But much given to sloth I

went only to its 5/23/05 filibuster diurnal where I found t-Pluto riding the

5th.cusp and t-Mercury on MC.

Working out its Venus-Pluto gave its peaceful resolve on the floor.

 

This commencing again in peace at a new beginning was simply PSSR true Nodes (00

Aries 00) in III-IX...while diurnal Rahu conjoined the MC of the converse PSSR,

thus bridging IX & X. In the severe angularity of the SSR's Jupiter-Saturn-Mars

is found this governmental

loggershead necessary this year.

 

Dark*Star

_________________________________

 

JohnTWB wrote:

 

> Dave may be right that the start time on March 4 was at 12:00 noon. I'd like

to know the research source for the determination of that time moment. I've been

led to believe from the Senate Journal that the start time was 11:00 am

(Sidereal ascendant: 29Taurus18).

>