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Hi Anny

 

For the Nation, Indonesia, August 17, 1945 please be aware that the so-called

official time was based a scheduled 10:00 am radio broadcast to the nation by

President-to-be Sukarno. However, according to an interview with an eye-witness

reporter, his story recounted in the Jakarta Post on August 16, 1995, to mark

the nation's semi-centennial anniversary, there were technical difficulties

encountered with the public address system that morning, difficulties delaying

the proceedings by almost 30 minutes. Keep this in mind as you work......

 

John

 

Anny van Berckel <avbdk wrote:

______________________

Dark*Star? Is this the man who once was involved with

O.J.Simson's " trial " ? What actually is his profession

in this case?

Regards,

Anny

 

|> From another group: An astrologer on a cable show four years ago

I> asked Cochran when he was born. He replied ~ 12:02 pm...

Which provides a perfect ASC for transit Pluto.

|| Dark*Star

|------------------------------

| ChryssAlex wrote:

|> Johnnie L. Cochran, Jr. Birth October 2, 1937 Place of

|> Birth: Shreveport, Louisiana,

--------------------------------

______________________

______________________

 

Message: 2

Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:05:46 -0800

Therese Hamilton <eastwest

RE: Digest Number 1066

 

Therese wrote,

Anny, I'm confused about your post. Are you saying that you used a V.P. of

6 04 to set up the earth chart? Is that the Lahiri V.P.? Or does 6 04

refern to a previous date with the F-B ayanamsa?

 

Hi Therese. I have the earthquacks in study too. It is notyet finished.

I am in search for the best Indonesia chart (Nation, proclamation or

the Official at 27 december 1949.) to compare them with the earthquacks.

 

To discover the degree 6.04' Pisces on cusp VII instead of the usual

tropical 00.00 Aries in the earth-chart,was quite a surprise for me

yesterday. There is no choice in this, helas. However it should be,

because it is the right VP.

I study the Lahiri ayamsa (5 or 6 years ago an astrologer advised

me to being the best instead of Fagan/Bradley, I used first. Months

ago -I told here in the group- Lahiri ayamsa was most exact at March

21 in...... 29.59'59 " Pisces for the " Spring " - Sun Ingres. I do not

know anymore which year; did not save the chart.

I saw a difference between Krishnamurti and Lahiri (05'28 " )in the

Navamsa chart sometimes. No details I have yet for an example.

The quality of the degree -describing the person in question- I value

most.

Succes with your research.

Regards,

Anny

 

 

 

 

 

______________________

______________________

 

 

" How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " -----

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

List owner: -owner

 

Shortcut URL to this page:

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Guest guest

Hi John,

 

Thanks for posting this information. It's very helpful.

 

After tinkering with the chart a bit using a few large events, it's clear to me

that 10.15 to 10.20 am is about right. This gives an ascendant of 3 or 4 Libra

in Lahiri. This would put the Saturn station in the late fall exactly in aspect

with the ascendant which is what one would expect.

 

I'm really glad to have confirmed that this chart seems to work -- at least for

me. I had tried to make sense of the 1949 chart, but it never panned out.

 

thanks again,

Chris

 

 

 

John T W B <jtwbjakarta wrote:

Hi Anny

 

For the Nation, Indonesia, August 17, 1945 please be aware that the so-called

official time was based a scheduled 10:00 am radio broadcast to the nation by

President-to-be Sukarno. However, according to an interview with an eye-witness

reporter, his story recounted in the Jakarta Post on August 16, 1995, to mark

the nation's semi-centennial anniversary, there were technical difficulties

encountered with the public address system that morning, difficulties delaying

the proceedings by almost 30 minutes. Keep this in mind as you work......

 

John

 

Anny van Berckel <avbdk wrote:

______________________

Dark*Star? Is this the man who once was involved with

O.J.Simson's " trial " ? What actually is his profession

in this case?

Regards,

Anny

 

|> From another group: An astrologer on a cable show four years ago

I> asked Cochran when he was born. He replied ~ 12:02 pm...

Which provides a perfect ASC for transit Pluto.

|| Dark*Star

|------------------------------

| ChryssAlex wrote:

|> Johnnie L. Cochran, Jr. Birth October 2, 1937 Place of

|> Birth: Shreveport, Louisiana,

--------------------------------

______________________

______________________

 

Message: 2

Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:05:46 -0800

Therese Hamilton <eastwest

RE: Digest Number 1066

 

Therese wrote,

Anny, I'm confused about your post. Are you saying that you used a V.P. of

6 04 to set up the earth chart? Is that the Lahiri V.P.? Or does 6 04

refern to a previous date with the F-B ayanamsa?

 

Hi Therese. I have the earthquacks in study too. It is notyet finished.

I am in search for the best Indonesia chart (Nation, proclamation or

the Official at 27 december 1949.) to compare them with the earthquacks.

 

To discover the degree 6.04' Pisces on cusp VII instead of the usual

tropical 00.00 Aries in the earth-chart,was quite a surprise for me

yesterday. There is no choice in this, helas. However it should be,

because it is the right VP.

I study the Lahiri ayamsa (5 or 6 years ago an astrologer advised

me to being the best instead of Fagan/Bradley, I used first. Months

ago -I told here in the group- Lahiri ayamsa was most exact at March

21 in...... 29.59'59 " Pisces for the " Spring " - Sun Ingres. I do not

know anymore which year; did not save the chart.

I saw a difference between Krishnamurti and Lahiri (05'28 " )in the

Navamsa chart sometimes. No details I have yet for an example.

The quality of the degree -describing the person in question- I value

most.

Succes with your research.

Regards,

Anny

 

 

 

 

 

______________________

______________________

 

 

" How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " -----

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

List owner: -owner

 

Shortcut URL to this page:

/

------

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hi Chris,

 

This week I hope to go to the offices of the JAKARTA POST and get the text of

the 1995 interview recounting the eye-witness memoir by a cub reporter of the

Proclamation ceremonies I referred to earlier. Then I'll excerpt and post to the

group.

 

NEXT STEP: I'll go the Indonesia's National Archives to check on newspaper

reports of the Time Zone change for Jakarta in 1945. I want to confirm that the

time zone change of August 01, 1945 was just that, and precisely then. Some

accounts simply report a change for " August 1945 " . If the actual date of the

clock turn back is August 31, not August 01, then Solar Fire and Nicholas

Campion for August 17, 1945 are off by 90 minutes. I've been meaning to do this

small investigation for months now; but the recent natural disasters and the

heightened interest of the astrologers in Indonesia now prompts me to get going

and do it.

 

From 1942 until August, 1945 the Indonesia Time Zone of record is " JST -9:00 " .

Then from August 1945 the zone is changed to " JT -7:30 " . The Sukarno

Proclamation of Independence was on August 17, 1945, 17 days after the

recognized time zone change.

 

There may be something wrong with this timezone chronology. The " JST -9:00 " was

effectively Japanese Imperial Army clock Time...the Japanese Empire was one time

zone all the way back to Tokyo; as in " Japan Time " on my Solar Fire. The

surrender of Japan was not publicized in Jakarta until the 23rd of August, the

week AFTER the Proclamation. Although Japan's Military authorities in Jakarta

allowed Sukarno to proclaim, as it was deemed not to be directed against the

policy of the " Co-Prosperity Sphere of the Japanese Empire " , it is hard to

reconcile these events with a Japan military decision to turn the clocks back 90

minutes on August 1st, when the war was in full swing.

 

Added to this is research done by a scholar in Singapore in which it is

maintained that the clocks of Malaysia/Singapore, Indonesia's next door neighbor

and fellow ocupied nation, occupied by the Japan's Imperial Army (and Navy),

were turned back only during the first week of SEPTEMBER 1945. Now this research

finding makes complete sense, given the larger history. So how did it come to

pass in Jakarta any time earlier than end of AUGUST 1945. ???

 

Obviously, if the official record is a turning back of the clocks actually on

August 31 or September 1, 1945 then my Solar Fire is off by 90 minutes for

August 17; and the approximate right time of the Proclamation would be not only

the adjusted 10:15/10:20 you have rectified, but 8:45/8:50, adjusted yet again:

for the ceremony's initial delay PLUS the difference between JST -9:00 and JT

-7:30.

 

More anon

 

JohnTWB

 

 

 

Christopher Kevill <ckevill wrote:

 

Hi John,

 

Thanks for posting this information. It's very helpful.

 

After tinkering with the chart a bit using a few large events, it's clear to me

that 10.15 to 10.20 am is about right. This gives an ascendant of 3 or 4 Libra

in Lahiri. This would put the Saturn station in the late fall exactly in aspect

with the ascendant which is what one would expect.

 

I'm really glad to have confirmed that this chart seems to work -- at least for

me. I had tried to make sense of the 1949 chart, but it never panned out.

 

thanks again,

Chris

 

 

 

John T W B wrote:

Hi Anny

 

For the Nation, Indonesia, August 17, 1945 please be aware that the so-called

official time was based a scheduled 10:00 am radio broadcast to the nation by

President-to-be Sukarno. However, according to an interview with an eye-witness

reporter, his story recounted in the Jakarta Post on August 16, 1995, to mark

the nation's semi-centennial anniversary, there were technical difficulties

encountered with the public address system that morning, difficulties delaying

the proceedings by almost 30 minutes. Keep this in mind as you work......

 

John

 

Anny van Berckel wrote:

______________________

Dark*Star? Is this the man who once was involved with

O.J.Simson's " trial " ? What actually is his profession

in this case?

Regards,

Anny

 

|> From another group: An astrologer on a cable show four years ago

I> asked Cochran when he was born. He replied ~ 12:02 pm...

Which provides a perfect ASC for transit Pluto.

|| Dark*Star

|------------------------------

| ChryssAlex wrote:

|> Johnnie L. Cochran, Jr. Birth October 2, 1937 Place of

|> Birth: Shreveport, Louisiana,

--------------------------------

______________________

______________________

 

Message: 2

Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:05:46 -0800

Therese Hamilton

RE: Digest Number 1066

 

Therese wrote,

Anny, I'm confused about your post. Are you saying that you used a V.P. of

6 04 to set up the earth chart? Is that the Lahiri V.P.? Or does 6 04

refern to a previous date with the F-B ayanamsa?

 

Hi Therese. I have the earthquacks in study too. It is notyet finished.

I am in search for the best Indonesia chart (Nation, proclamation or

the Official at 27 december 1949.) to compare them with the earthquacks.

 

To discover the degree 6.04' Pisces on cusp VII instead of the usual

tropical 00.00 Aries in the earth-chart,was quite a surprise for me

yesterday. There is no choice in this, helas. However it should be,

because it is the right VP.

I study the Lahiri ayamsa (5 or 6 years ago an astrologer advised

me to being the best instead of Fagan/Bradley, I used first. Months

ago -I told here in the group- Lahiri ayamsa was most exact at March

21 in...... 29.59'59 " Pisces for the " Spring " - Sun Ingres. I do not

know anymore which year; did not save the chart.

I saw a difference between Krishnamurti and Lahiri (05'28 " )in the

Navamsa chart sometimes. No details I have yet for an example.

The quality of the degree -describing the person in question- I value

most.

Succes with your research.

Regards,

Anny

 

 

 

 

 

______________________

______________________

 

 

" How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " -----

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

List owner: -owner

 

Shortcut URL to this page:

/

------

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hey John,

 

I admire your eye for detail. The time zone thing is a huge issue. I can't see

JST being in effect on the 17th. The chart just seems to work so well. Let us

know what you find.

 

Have you tried the chart?

 

Another solid endorsement for Tz 7.30 and 10.20 am is looking at Suharto's

resignation May 21 1998. Saturn sits exactly on the Dsc. at 4 Aries.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

JohnTWB <jtwbjakarta wrote:

Hi Chris,

 

This week I hope to go to the offices of the JAKARTA POST and get the text of

the 1995 interview recounting the eye-witness memoir by a cub reporter of the

Proclamation ceremonies I referred to earlier. Then I'll excerpt and post to the

group.

 

NEXT STEP: I'll go the Indonesia's National Archives to check on newspaper

reports of the Time Zone change for Jakarta in 1945. I want to confirm that the

time zone change of August 01, 1945 was just that, and precisely then. Some

accounts simply report a change for " August 1945 " . If the actual date of the

clock turn back is August 31, not August 01, then Solar Fire and Nicholas

Campion for August 17, 1945 are off by 90 minutes. I've been meaning to do this

small investigation for months now; but the recent natural disasters and the

heightened interest of the astrologers in Indonesia now prompts me to get going

and do it.

 

From 1942 until August, 1945 the Indonesia Time Zone of record is " JST -9:00 " .

Then from August 1945 the zone is changed to " JT -7:30 " . The Sukarno

Proclamation of Independence was on August 17, 1945, 17 days after the

recognized time zone change.

 

There may be something wrong with this timezone chronology. The " JST -9:00 " was

effectively Japanese Imperial Army clock Time...the Japanese Empire was one time

zone all the way back to Tokyo; as in " Japan Time " on my Solar Fire. The

surrender of Japan was not publicized in Jakarta until the 23rd of August, the

week AFTER the Proclamation. Although Japan's Military authorities in Jakarta

allowed Sukarno to proclaim, as it was deemed not to be directed against the

policy of the " Co-Prosperity Sphere of the Japanese Empire " , it is hard to

reconcile these events with a Japan military decision to turn the clocks back 90

minutes on August 1st, when the war was in full swing.

 

Added to this is research done by a scholar in Singapore in which it is

maintained that the clocks of Malaysia/Singapore, Indonesia's next door neighbor

and fellow ocupied nation, occupied by the Japan's Imperial Army (and Navy),

were turned back only during the first week of SEPTEMBER 1945. Now this research

finding makes complete sense, given the larger history. So how did it come to

pass in Jakarta any time earlier than end of AUGUST 1945. ???

 

Obviously, if the official record is a turning back of the clocks actually on

August 31 or September 1, 1945 then my Solar Fire is off by 90 minutes for

August 17; and the approximate right time of the Proclamation would be not only

the adjusted 10:15/10:20 you have rectified, but 8:45/8:50, adjusted yet again:

for the ceremony's initial delay PLUS the difference between JST -9:00 and JT

-7:30.

 

More anon

 

JohnTWB

 

 

 

Christopher Kevill <ckevill wrote:

 

Hi John,

 

Thanks for posting this information. It's very helpful.

 

After tinkering with the chart a bit using a few large events, it's clear to me

that 10.15 to 10.20 am is about right. This gives an ascendant of 3 or 4 Libra

in Lahiri. This would put the Saturn station in the late fall exactly in aspect

with the ascendant which is what one would expect.

 

I'm really glad to have confirmed that this chart seems to work -- at least for

me. I had tried to make sense of the 1949 chart, but it never panned out.

 

thanks again,

Chris

 

 

 

John T W B wrote:

Hi Anny

 

For the Nation, Indonesia, August 17, 1945 please be aware that the so-called

official time was based a scheduled 10:00 am radio broadcast to the nation by

President-to-be Sukarno. However, according to an interview with an eye-witness

reporter, his story recounted in the Jakarta Post on August 16, 1995, to mark

the nation's semi-centennial anniversary, there were technical difficulties

encountered with the public address system that morning, difficulties delaying

the proceedings by almost 30 minutes. Keep this in mind as you work......

 

John

 

Anny van Berckel wrote:

______________________

Dark*Star? Is this the man who once was involved with

O.J.Simson's " trial " ? What actually is his profession

in this case?

Regards,

Anny

 

|> From another group: An astrologer on a cable show four years ago

I> asked Cochran when he was born. He replied ~ 12:02 pm...

Which provides a perfect ASC for transit Pluto.

|| Dark*Star

|------------------------------

| ChryssAlex wrote:

|> Johnnie L. Cochran, Jr. Birth October 2, 1937 Place of

|> Birth: Shreveport, Louisiana,

--------------------------------

______________________

______________________

 

Message: 2

Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:05:46 -0800

Therese Hamilton

RE: Digest Number 1066

 

Therese wrote,

Anny, I'm confused about your post. Are you saying that you used a V.P. of

6 04 to set up the earth chart? Is that the Lahiri V.P.? Or does 6 04

refern to a previous date with the F-B ayanamsa?

 

Hi Therese. I have the earthquacks in study too. It is notyet finished.

I am in search for the best Indonesia chart (Nation, proclamation or

the Official at 27 december 1949.) to compare them with the earthquacks.

 

To discover the degree 6.04' Pisces on cusp VII instead of the usual

tropical 00.00 Aries in the earth-chart,was quite a surprise for me

yesterday. There is no choice in this, helas. However it should be,

because it is the right VP.

I study the Lahiri ayamsa (5 or 6 years ago an astrologer advised

me to being the best instead of Fagan/Bradley, I used first. Months

ago -I told here in the group- Lahiri ayamsa was most exact at March

21 in...... 29.59'59 " Pisces for the " Spring " - Sun Ingres. I do not

know anymore which year; did not save the chart.

I saw a difference between Krishnamurti and Lahiri (05'28 " )in the

Navamsa chart sometimes. No details I have yet for an example.

The quality of the degree -describing the person in question- I value

most.

Succes with your research.

Regards,

Anny

 

 

 

 

 

______________________

______________________

 

 

" How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " -----

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

List owner: -owner

 

Shortcut URL to this page:

/

------

 

Link to comment
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