Guest guest Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 Hi Anny For the Nation, Indonesia, August 17, 1945 please be aware that the so-called official time was based a scheduled 10:00 am radio broadcast to the nation by President-to-be Sukarno. However, according to an interview with an eye-witness reporter, his story recounted in the Jakarta Post on August 16, 1995, to mark the nation's semi-centennial anniversary, there were technical difficulties encountered with the public address system that morning, difficulties delaying the proceedings by almost 30 minutes. Keep this in mind as you work...... John Anny van Berckel <avbdk wrote: ______________________ Dark*Star? Is this the man who once was involved with O.J.Simson's " trial " ? What actually is his profession in this case? Regards, Anny |> From another group: An astrologer on a cable show four years ago I> asked Cochran when he was born. He replied ~ 12:02 pm... Which provides a perfect ASC for transit Pluto. || Dark*Star |------------------------------ | ChryssAlex wrote: |> Johnnie L. Cochran, Jr. Birth October 2, 1937 Place of |> Birth: Shreveport, Louisiana, -------------------------------- ______________________ ______________________ Message: 2 Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:05:46 -0800 Therese Hamilton <eastwest RE: Digest Number 1066 Therese wrote, Anny, I'm confused about your post. Are you saying that you used a V.P. of 6 04 to set up the earth chart? Is that the Lahiri V.P.? Or does 6 04 refern to a previous date with the F-B ayanamsa? Hi Therese. I have the earthquacks in study too. It is notyet finished. I am in search for the best Indonesia chart (Nation, proclamation or the Official at 27 december 1949.) to compare them with the earthquacks. To discover the degree 6.04' Pisces on cusp VII instead of the usual tropical 00.00 Aries in the earth-chart,was quite a surprise for me yesterday. There is no choice in this, helas. However it should be, because it is the right VP. I study the Lahiri ayamsa (5 or 6 years ago an astrologer advised me to being the best instead of Fagan/Bradley, I used first. Months ago -I told here in the group- Lahiri ayamsa was most exact at March 21 in...... 29.59'59 " Pisces for the " Spring " - Sun Ingres. I do not know anymore which year; did not save the chart. I saw a difference between Krishnamurti and Lahiri (05'28 " )in the Navamsa chart sometimes. No details I have yet for an example. The quality of the degree -describing the person in question- I value most. Succes with your research. Regards, Anny ______________________ ______________________ " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Hi John, Thanks for posting this information. It's very helpful. After tinkering with the chart a bit using a few large events, it's clear to me that 10.15 to 10.20 am is about right. This gives an ascendant of 3 or 4 Libra in Lahiri. This would put the Saturn station in the late fall exactly in aspect with the ascendant which is what one would expect. I'm really glad to have confirmed that this chart seems to work -- at least for me. I had tried to make sense of the 1949 chart, but it never panned out. thanks again, Chris John T W B <jtwbjakarta wrote: Hi Anny For the Nation, Indonesia, August 17, 1945 please be aware that the so-called official time was based a scheduled 10:00 am radio broadcast to the nation by President-to-be Sukarno. However, according to an interview with an eye-witness reporter, his story recounted in the Jakarta Post on August 16, 1995, to mark the nation's semi-centennial anniversary, there were technical difficulties encountered with the public address system that morning, difficulties delaying the proceedings by almost 30 minutes. Keep this in mind as you work...... John Anny van Berckel <avbdk wrote: ______________________ Dark*Star? Is this the man who once was involved with O.J.Simson's " trial " ? What actually is his profession in this case? Regards, Anny |> From another group: An astrologer on a cable show four years ago I> asked Cochran when he was born. He replied ~ 12:02 pm... Which provides a perfect ASC for transit Pluto. || Dark*Star |------------------------------ | ChryssAlex wrote: |> Johnnie L. Cochran, Jr. Birth October 2, 1937 Place of |> Birth: Shreveport, Louisiana, -------------------------------- ______________________ ______________________ Message: 2 Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:05:46 -0800 Therese Hamilton <eastwest RE: Digest Number 1066 Therese wrote, Anny, I'm confused about your post. Are you saying that you used a V.P. of 6 04 to set up the earth chart? Is that the Lahiri V.P.? Or does 6 04 refern to a previous date with the F-B ayanamsa? Hi Therese. I have the earthquacks in study too. It is notyet finished. I am in search for the best Indonesia chart (Nation, proclamation or the Official at 27 december 1949.) to compare them with the earthquacks. To discover the degree 6.04' Pisces on cusp VII instead of the usual tropical 00.00 Aries in the earth-chart,was quite a surprise for me yesterday. There is no choice in this, helas. However it should be, because it is the right VP. I study the Lahiri ayamsa (5 or 6 years ago an astrologer advised me to being the best instead of Fagan/Bradley, I used first. Months ago -I told here in the group- Lahiri ayamsa was most exact at March 21 in...... 29.59'59 " Pisces for the " Spring " - Sun Ingres. I do not know anymore which year; did not save the chart. I saw a difference between Krishnamurti and Lahiri (05'28 " )in the Navamsa chart sometimes. No details I have yet for an example. The quality of the degree -describing the person in question- I value most. Succes with your research. Regards, Anny ______________________ ______________________ " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Hi Chris, This week I hope to go to the offices of the JAKARTA POST and get the text of the 1995 interview recounting the eye-witness memoir by a cub reporter of the Proclamation ceremonies I referred to earlier. Then I'll excerpt and post to the group. NEXT STEP: I'll go the Indonesia's National Archives to check on newspaper reports of the Time Zone change for Jakarta in 1945. I want to confirm that the time zone change of August 01, 1945 was just that, and precisely then. Some accounts simply report a change for " August 1945 " . If the actual date of the clock turn back is August 31, not August 01, then Solar Fire and Nicholas Campion for August 17, 1945 are off by 90 minutes. I've been meaning to do this small investigation for months now; but the recent natural disasters and the heightened interest of the astrologers in Indonesia now prompts me to get going and do it. From 1942 until August, 1945 the Indonesia Time Zone of record is " JST -9:00 " . Then from August 1945 the zone is changed to " JT -7:30 " . The Sukarno Proclamation of Independence was on August 17, 1945, 17 days after the recognized time zone change. There may be something wrong with this timezone chronology. The " JST -9:00 " was effectively Japanese Imperial Army clock Time...the Japanese Empire was one time zone all the way back to Tokyo; as in " Japan Time " on my Solar Fire. The surrender of Japan was not publicized in Jakarta until the 23rd of August, the week AFTER the Proclamation. Although Japan's Military authorities in Jakarta allowed Sukarno to proclaim, as it was deemed not to be directed against the policy of the " Co-Prosperity Sphere of the Japanese Empire " , it is hard to reconcile these events with a Japan military decision to turn the clocks back 90 minutes on August 1st, when the war was in full swing. Added to this is research done by a scholar in Singapore in which it is maintained that the clocks of Malaysia/Singapore, Indonesia's next door neighbor and fellow ocupied nation, occupied by the Japan's Imperial Army (and Navy), were turned back only during the first week of SEPTEMBER 1945. Now this research finding makes complete sense, given the larger history. So how did it come to pass in Jakarta any time earlier than end of AUGUST 1945. ??? Obviously, if the official record is a turning back of the clocks actually on August 31 or September 1, 1945 then my Solar Fire is off by 90 minutes for August 17; and the approximate right time of the Proclamation would be not only the adjusted 10:15/10:20 you have rectified, but 8:45/8:50, adjusted yet again: for the ceremony's initial delay PLUS the difference between JST -9:00 and JT -7:30. More anon JohnTWB Christopher Kevill <ckevill wrote: Hi John, Thanks for posting this information. It's very helpful. After tinkering with the chart a bit using a few large events, it's clear to me that 10.15 to 10.20 am is about right. This gives an ascendant of 3 or 4 Libra in Lahiri. This would put the Saturn station in the late fall exactly in aspect with the ascendant which is what one would expect. I'm really glad to have confirmed that this chart seems to work -- at least for me. I had tried to make sense of the 1949 chart, but it never panned out. thanks again, Chris John T W B wrote: Hi Anny For the Nation, Indonesia, August 17, 1945 please be aware that the so-called official time was based a scheduled 10:00 am radio broadcast to the nation by President-to-be Sukarno. However, according to an interview with an eye-witness reporter, his story recounted in the Jakarta Post on August 16, 1995, to mark the nation's semi-centennial anniversary, there were technical difficulties encountered with the public address system that morning, difficulties delaying the proceedings by almost 30 minutes. Keep this in mind as you work...... John Anny van Berckel wrote: ______________________ Dark*Star? Is this the man who once was involved with O.J.Simson's " trial " ? What actually is his profession in this case? Regards, Anny |> From another group: An astrologer on a cable show four years ago I> asked Cochran when he was born. He replied ~ 12:02 pm... Which provides a perfect ASC for transit Pluto. || Dark*Star |------------------------------ | ChryssAlex wrote: |> Johnnie L. Cochran, Jr. Birth October 2, 1937 Place of |> Birth: Shreveport, Louisiana, -------------------------------- ______________________ ______________________ Message: 2 Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:05:46 -0800 Therese Hamilton RE: Digest Number 1066 Therese wrote, Anny, I'm confused about your post. Are you saying that you used a V.P. of 6 04 to set up the earth chart? Is that the Lahiri V.P.? Or does 6 04 refern to a previous date with the F-B ayanamsa? Hi Therese. I have the earthquacks in study too. It is notyet finished. I am in search for the best Indonesia chart (Nation, proclamation or the Official at 27 december 1949.) to compare them with the earthquacks. To discover the degree 6.04' Pisces on cusp VII instead of the usual tropical 00.00 Aries in the earth-chart,was quite a surprise for me yesterday. There is no choice in this, helas. However it should be, because it is the right VP. I study the Lahiri ayamsa (5 or 6 years ago an astrologer advised me to being the best instead of Fagan/Bradley, I used first. Months ago -I told here in the group- Lahiri ayamsa was most exact at March 21 in...... 29.59'59 " Pisces for the " Spring " - Sun Ingres. I do not know anymore which year; did not save the chart. I saw a difference between Krishnamurti and Lahiri (05'28 " )in the Navamsa chart sometimes. No details I have yet for an example. The quality of the degree -describing the person in question- I value most. Succes with your research. Regards, Anny ______________________ ______________________ " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Hey John, I admire your eye for detail. The time zone thing is a huge issue. I can't see JST being in effect on the 17th. The chart just seems to work so well. Let us know what you find. Have you tried the chart? Another solid endorsement for Tz 7.30 and 10.20 am is looking at Suharto's resignation May 21 1998. Saturn sits exactly on the Dsc. at 4 Aries. Chris JohnTWB <jtwbjakarta wrote: Hi Chris, This week I hope to go to the offices of the JAKARTA POST and get the text of the 1995 interview recounting the eye-witness memoir by a cub reporter of the Proclamation ceremonies I referred to earlier. Then I'll excerpt and post to the group. NEXT STEP: I'll go the Indonesia's National Archives to check on newspaper reports of the Time Zone change for Jakarta in 1945. I want to confirm that the time zone change of August 01, 1945 was just that, and precisely then. Some accounts simply report a change for " August 1945 " . If the actual date of the clock turn back is August 31, not August 01, then Solar Fire and Nicholas Campion for August 17, 1945 are off by 90 minutes. I've been meaning to do this small investigation for months now; but the recent natural disasters and the heightened interest of the astrologers in Indonesia now prompts me to get going and do it. From 1942 until August, 1945 the Indonesia Time Zone of record is " JST -9:00 " . Then from August 1945 the zone is changed to " JT -7:30 " . The Sukarno Proclamation of Independence was on August 17, 1945, 17 days after the recognized time zone change. There may be something wrong with this timezone chronology. The " JST -9:00 " was effectively Japanese Imperial Army clock Time...the Japanese Empire was one time zone all the way back to Tokyo; as in " Japan Time " on my Solar Fire. The surrender of Japan was not publicized in Jakarta until the 23rd of August, the week AFTER the Proclamation. Although Japan's Military authorities in Jakarta allowed Sukarno to proclaim, as it was deemed not to be directed against the policy of the " Co-Prosperity Sphere of the Japanese Empire " , it is hard to reconcile these events with a Japan military decision to turn the clocks back 90 minutes on August 1st, when the war was in full swing. Added to this is research done by a scholar in Singapore in which it is maintained that the clocks of Malaysia/Singapore, Indonesia's next door neighbor and fellow ocupied nation, occupied by the Japan's Imperial Army (and Navy), were turned back only during the first week of SEPTEMBER 1945. Now this research finding makes complete sense, given the larger history. So how did it come to pass in Jakarta any time earlier than end of AUGUST 1945. ??? Obviously, if the official record is a turning back of the clocks actually on August 31 or September 1, 1945 then my Solar Fire is off by 90 minutes for August 17; and the approximate right time of the Proclamation would be not only the adjusted 10:15/10:20 you have rectified, but 8:45/8:50, adjusted yet again: for the ceremony's initial delay PLUS the difference between JST -9:00 and JT -7:30. More anon JohnTWB Christopher Kevill <ckevill wrote: Hi John, Thanks for posting this information. It's very helpful. After tinkering with the chart a bit using a few large events, it's clear to me that 10.15 to 10.20 am is about right. This gives an ascendant of 3 or 4 Libra in Lahiri. This would put the Saturn station in the late fall exactly in aspect with the ascendant which is what one would expect. I'm really glad to have confirmed that this chart seems to work -- at least for me. I had tried to make sense of the 1949 chart, but it never panned out. thanks again, Chris John T W B wrote: Hi Anny For the Nation, Indonesia, August 17, 1945 please be aware that the so-called official time was based a scheduled 10:00 am radio broadcast to the nation by President-to-be Sukarno. However, according to an interview with an eye-witness reporter, his story recounted in the Jakarta Post on August 16, 1995, to mark the nation's semi-centennial anniversary, there were technical difficulties encountered with the public address system that morning, difficulties delaying the proceedings by almost 30 minutes. Keep this in mind as you work...... John Anny van Berckel wrote: ______________________ Dark*Star? Is this the man who once was involved with O.J.Simson's " trial " ? What actually is his profession in this case? Regards, Anny |> From another group: An astrologer on a cable show four years ago I> asked Cochran when he was born. He replied ~ 12:02 pm... Which provides a perfect ASC for transit Pluto. || Dark*Star |------------------------------ | ChryssAlex wrote: |> Johnnie L. Cochran, Jr. Birth October 2, 1937 Place of |> Birth: Shreveport, Louisiana, -------------------------------- ______________________ ______________________ Message: 2 Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:05:46 -0800 Therese Hamilton RE: Digest Number 1066 Therese wrote, Anny, I'm confused about your post. Are you saying that you used a V.P. of 6 04 to set up the earth chart? Is that the Lahiri V.P.? Or does 6 04 refern to a previous date with the F-B ayanamsa? Hi Therese. I have the earthquacks in study too. It is notyet finished. I am in search for the best Indonesia chart (Nation, proclamation or the Official at 27 december 1949.) to compare them with the earthquacks. To discover the degree 6.04' Pisces on cusp VII instead of the usual tropical 00.00 Aries in the earth-chart,was quite a surprise for me yesterday. There is no choice in this, helas. However it should be, because it is the right VP. I study the Lahiri ayamsa (5 or 6 years ago an astrologer advised me to being the best instead of Fagan/Bradley, I used first. Months ago -I told here in the group- Lahiri ayamsa was most exact at March 21 in...... 29.59'59 " Pisces for the " Spring " - Sun Ingres. I do not know anymore which year; did not save the chart. I saw a difference between Krishnamurti and Lahiri (05'28 " )in the Navamsa chart sometimes. No details I have yet for an example. The quality of the degree -describing the person in question- I value most. Succes with your research. Regards, Anny ______________________ ______________________ " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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