confirmation of midnight chart for Canada in RCMP shooting

[Guest guest]

http://story.news./news?tmpl=story & cid=574 & ncid=721 & e=1 & u=/nm/20050304/\

wl_nm/crime_canada_shooting_dc

 

This was the bloodiest day for the police in Canada in 120 years as 4 RCMP

officers were killed in a drug-related shootout.

 

This occurred when transit Mars 24Sagittarius/17Capricorn squared the

ascendant 24Pisces/17Aries of the midnight chart (Jul 1 1867).

 

Many mundane astrologers, including Nicholas Campion (and his big book),

observe the ceremonial proclamation of Canada at 12.05 pm as the correct

natal chart.

 

I've never believed that chart was the best one however, and this simple

transit related event gives further support to the de jure midnight chart

as the most useful.

 

Chris

 

 

=====

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[Guest guest]

, Christopher Kevill

<ckevill> wrote:

> This was the bloodiest day for the police in Canada in 120 years

as 4 RCMP > officers were killed in a drug-related shootout. (snip)

>

> Many mundane astrologers, including Nicholas Campion (and his big

book), observe the ceremonial proclamation of Canada at 12.05 pm as

the correct natal chart. I've never believed that chart was the

best one however, and this simple transit related event gives

further support to the de jure midnight chart as the most useful.

>

> Chris

>

REPLY:

Chris, I am not in a position to promote one Canadia birth chart

over another one. However, the news about the four RCMP officers

being killed was most intriguing. I use Moon Moores' Book of World

Horoscopes -- for Canada he uses a chart set for Noontime. Using

that chart, I first relocated the chart to the site of the killings,

and then ran precession-corrected Solar Returns and then progressed

the angles to March 3, 2005. The resulting chart was under-whelming

in its lack of significance.

 

I then ran precession-corrected Solar Returns for Ottawa on the

basis that the chart should reflect the national concern over this

terrible event. Then I ran a PSSR chart for the event date. I have

posted this in the Files as a .pdf document, " RCMP Killings. " There

is a sketch of the chart I cast. Using my methodology, it appears

to be quite relevant to the situation. You and the other members

are invited to look at this one-page document and offer comments. I

believe you'll find my methods simple but a bit non-mainstream in

some respects -- I interpret Natal-Solar-Progressed angles contacts

to each other, as well as using a " new " angle which I call the Co-

Descendant angle.

 

Dave.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave,

 

Thanks for your views.

 

I don't know why you would relocate the chart for the site of the

killings. Sure, that's common practice but it has no predictive

relevance: one can't see *where* something is going to happen beforehand

unless one is some kind of virtuoso with Solar Maps.

 

That's why it's always better to stick with the capital city (or perhaps

other main cities) that can be checked ahead of time in order to make a

prediction.

 

I don't know you methodology, but it would appear to be more complex and

require more assumptions than a simple Mars transit to the ascendant.

Given the choice, I'll usually take the simpler solution. In things

astrological, less is more.

 

That said, I'll check out the file you've posted and get back to you.

 

Chris

 

 

--- Dave <dadsnook wrote:

 

>

> , Christopher Kevill

> <ckevill> wrote:

> > This was the bloodiest day for the police in Canada in 120 years

> as 4 RCMP > officers were killed in a drug-related shootout. (snip)

> >

> > Many mundane astrologers, including Nicholas Campion (and his big

> book), observe the ceremonial proclamation of Canada at 12.05 pm as

> the correct natal chart. I've never believed that chart was the

> best one however, and this simple transit related event gives

> further support to the de jure midnight chart as the most useful.

> >

> > Chris

> >

> REPLY:

> Chris, I am not in a position to promote one Canadia birth chart

> over another one. However, the news about the four RCMP officers

> being killed was most intriguing. I use Moon Moores' Book of World

> Horoscopes -- for Canada he uses a chart set for Noontime. Using

> that chart, I first relocated the chart to the site of the killings,

> and then ran precession-corrected Solar Returns and then progressed

> the angles to March 3, 2005. The resulting chart was under-whelming

> in its lack of significance.

>

> I then ran precession-corrected Solar Returns for Ottawa on the

> basis that the chart should reflect the national concern over this

> terrible event. Then I ran a PSSR chart for the event date. I have

> posted this in the Files as a .pdf document, " RCMP Killings. " There

> is a sketch of the chart I cast. Using my methodology, it appears

> to be quite relevant to the situation. You and the other members

> are invited to look at this one-page document and offer comments. I

> believe you'll find my methods simple but a bit non-mainstream in

> some respects -- I interpret Natal-Solar-Progressed angles contacts

> to each other, as well as using a " new " angle which I call the Co-

> Descendant angle.

>

> Dave.

>

>

>

>

 

 

=====

http://modernVedic Astrology.com

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave,

 

Just took a look at your file.

 

No mention of Mars there so I'm puzzled why you would think that the PSSR

has much to do with what happened. I mean, 4 cops were shot -- that's

Mars in my books. The Moon, Saturn, Mercury etc influences you mention

all seem inferential and do not describe the fact that this was an act of

violence.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

--- Dave <dadsnook wrote:

 

>

> , Christopher Kevill

> <ckevill> wrote:

> > This was the bloodiest day for the police in Canada in 120 years

> as 4 RCMP > officers were killed in a drug-related shootout. (snip)

> >

> > Many mundane astrologers, including Nicholas Campion (and his big

> book), observe the ceremonial proclamation of Canada at 12.05 pm as

> the correct natal chart. I've never believed that chart was the

> best one however, and this simple transit related event gives

> further support to the de jure midnight chart as the most useful.

> >

> > Chris

> >

> REPLY:

> Chris, I am not in a position to promote one Canadia birth chart

> over another one. However, the news about the four RCMP officers

> being killed was most intriguing. I use Moon Moores' Book of World

> Horoscopes -- for Canada he uses a chart set for Noontime. Using

> that chart, I first relocated the chart to the site of the killings,

> and then ran precession-corrected Solar Returns and then progressed

> the angles to March 3, 2005. The resulting chart was under-whelming

> in its lack of significance.

>

> I then ran precession-corrected Solar Returns for Ottawa on the

> basis that the chart should reflect the national concern over this

> terrible event. Then I ran a PSSR chart for the event date. I have

> posted this in the Files as a .pdf document, " RCMP Killings. " There

> is a sketch of the chart I cast. Using my methodology, it appears

> to be quite relevant to the situation. You and the other members

> are invited to look at this one-page document and offer comments. I

> believe you'll find my methods simple but a bit non-mainstream in

> some respects -- I interpret Natal-Solar-Progressed angles contacts

> to each other, as well as using a " new " angle which I call the Co-

> Descendant angle.

>

> Dave.

>

>

>

>

 

 

=====

http://modernVedic Astrology.com

 

 

 

 

 

Celebrate 's 10th Birthday!

Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

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[Guest guest]

, Christopher Kevill

<ckevill> wrote:

> Just took a look at your file.

> No mention of Mars there so I'm puzzled why you would think that

the PSSR has much to do with what happened. I mean, 4 cops were

shot -- that's Mars in my books. The Moon, Saturn, Mercury etc

influences you mention all seem inferential and do not describe the

fact that this was an act of violence. Chris

>

REPLY:

Mars/transiting is shown on the chart I presented at 17 Capricorn,

opposing Saturn/Transiting above the Ascendant, and square Jupiter/

transiting in the 4th, and square Neptune/natal in the 10th. You

can put all four together in various ways and emphasize one or the

other:

Mars = violence, hurt, blood, fighting.

Saturn/Asc = harshness, defining acts, somber views.

Jupiter = Legalities, social opportunities, larger views.

Neptune = drugs, confusion, large groups, illusionary situations.

 

Combine that with Canada's ASC at the IC of the progressed chart: a

new and/or revised set of values may be considered, the end of a

nation's assumptions and attitudes,etc.

 

It looks like a reasonable chart for a nation-as-a-whole. I agree

that I would expect stronger Mars-Mercury-Jupiter-Sun placements if

I was doing a local chart or charts for individuals involved. But,

for a national chart, this may be appropriate for the amount of

attention and impact that this event will have.

 

I just ran the chart to see what was offered. I had run charts that

were relocated to the scene, but they were very bland and didn't

seem to fit at all. At least this chart seemed to reflect the

situation in terms of the national attitude. Dave.

PS: Have you found other charts that better reflect this event?

[Guest guest]

Hey Dave,

 

Sorry, but I don't see any obvious Mars hits on the angles in your chart

-- it's still quite a few degrees off. That's the key for me. If Mars

isn't obviously doing something for an event like this, then I'm tempted

to look elsewhere.

 

Chris

 

 

--- Dave <dadsnook wrote:

 

>

> , Christopher Kevill

> <ckevill> wrote:

> > Just took a look at your file.

> > No mention of Mars there so I'm puzzled why you would think that

> the PSSR has much to do with what happened. I mean, 4 cops were

> shot -- that's Mars in my books. The Moon, Saturn, Mercury etc

> influences you mention all seem inferential and do not describe the

> fact that this was an act of violence. Chris

> >

> REPLY:

> Mars/transiting is shown on the chart I presented at 17 Capricorn,

> opposing Saturn/Transiting above the Ascendant, and square Jupiter/

> transiting in the 4th, and square Neptune/natal in the 10th. You

> can put all four together in various ways and emphasize one or the

> other:

> Mars = violence, hurt, blood, fighting.

> Saturn/Asc = harshness, defining acts, somber views.

> Jupiter = Legalities, social opportunities, larger views.

> Neptune = drugs, confusion, large groups, illusionary situations.

>

> Combine that with Canada's ASC at the IC of the progressed chart: a

> new and/or revised set of values may be considered, the end of a

> nation's assumptions and attitudes,etc.

>

> It looks like a reasonable chart for a nation-as-a-whole. I agree

> that I would expect stronger Mars-Mercury-Jupiter-Sun placements if

> I was doing a local chart or charts for individuals involved. But,

> for a national chart, this may be appropriate for the amount of

> attention and impact that this event will have.

>

> I just ran the chart to see what was offered. I had run charts that

> were relocated to the scene, but they were very bland and didn't

> seem to fit at all. At least this chart seemed to reflect the

> situation in terms of the national attitude. Dave.

> PS: Have you found other charts that better reflect this event?

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

=====

http://modernVedic Astrology.com

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Group

 

Chris' findings are very interesting. However a clarification is in order.

 

The 19th century Constitutional Act-event of 1867 on which the birthchart in

question is based can only be interpreted as the arrival date of Canada's

national government, not the " nation " of Canada. The nation was still British

because the State was still the United Kingdom. Canada's dominion status

precluded Canada's sovereignty. No sovereignty = No State. Nicholas Campion's

chart in his BOOK OF WORLD HOROSCOPES is the " Dominion of Canada " ....which

decoded means the National Government of Canada within the State of the United

Kingdom

 

Whether or not Canada achieved sovereignty as recently as 1982 when the British

Parliament constitutionally removed itself from any law making capacity in

Canada is a matter worth exploring in regard to whether or not the Crown

continued thereafter to be sovereign in Canada. But to assume that Canada was a

nation by the mundane definition of a sovereign state at anytime before 1982 is

unjustifiable because the facts don't support it.

 

And having said this much, the RCMP is the national police force of Canada; and

of course is an arm of the Canadian national government. So why not just get the

name right for the birthchart Chris is working with

 

, Christopher Kevill

<ckevill> wrote:

> Just took a look at your file.

> No mention of Mars there so I'm puzzled why you would think that

the PSSR has much to do with what happened. I mean, 4 cops were

shot -- that's Mars in my books. The Moon, Saturn, Mercury etc

influences you mention all seem inferential and do not describe the

fact that this was an act of violence. Chris

>

REPLY:

Mars/transiting is shown on the chart I presented at 17 Capricorn,

opposing Saturn/Transiting above the Ascendant, and square Jupiter/

transiting in the 4th, and square Neptune/natal in the 10th. You

can put all four together in various ways and emphasize one or the

other:

Mars = violence, hurt, blood, fighting.

Saturn/Asc = harshness, defining acts, somber views.

Jupiter = Legalities, social opportunities, larger views.

Neptune = drugs, confusion, large groups, illusionary situations.

 

Combine that with Canada's ASC at the IC of the progressed chart: a

new and/or revised set of values may be considered, the end of a

nation's assumptions and attitudes,etc.

 

It looks like a reasonable chart for a nation-as-a-whole. I agree

that I would expect stronger Mars-Mercury-Jupiter-Sun placements if

I was doing a local chart or charts for individuals involved. But,

for a national chart, this may be appropriate for the amount of

attention and impact that this event will have.

 

I just ran the chart to see what was offered. I had run charts that

were relocated to the scene, but they were very bland and didn't

seem to fit at all. At least this chart seemed to reflect the

situation in terms of the national attitude. Dave.

PS: Have you found other charts that better reflect this event?

 

 

 

 

 

 

" How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " -----

 

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[Guest guest]

John

 

Thanks for your commentary, it's always enlightening.

 

However, the notion that Canada was anything other than a sovereign

country before 1982 is laughable. The formal ties to Westminster were

vestigial and pro forma only. This is why Queen Elizabeth can be head of

the Canadian state and yet she exercises no influence on Canadian

decision-making whatsoever. In fact, no British monarch ever has since

1867. The same situation is in effect for the other " white dominions " of

the former empire -- Australia and New Zealand.

 

Only once has the Queen's representative, the governor-general, had to

intercede in govt affairs when a deadlocked minority parliament in the

1920s had to be dissolved. In those days, the governor-general was

appointed by London, but had to be approved by the PM of Canada. Since

the 1950s the governor general has been appointed by Canada.

 

Chris

 

--- John T W B <jtwbjakarta wrote:

 

> Hi Group

>

> Chris' findings are very interesting. However a clarification is in

> order.

>

> The 19th century Constitutional Act-event of 1867 on which the

> birthchart in question is based can only be interpreted as the arrival

> date of Canada's national government, not the " nation " of Canada. The

> nation was still British because the State was still the United Kingdom.

> Canada's dominion status precluded Canada's sovereignty. No sovereignty

> = No State. Nicholas Campion's chart in his BOOK OF WORLD HOROSCOPES is

> the " Dominion of Canada " ....which decoded means the National Government

> of Canada within the State of the United Kingdom

>

> Whether or not Canada achieved sovereignty as recently as 1982 when the

> British Parliament constitutionally removed itself from any law making

> capacity in Canada is a matter worth exploring in regard to whether or

> not the Crown continued thereafter to be sovereign in Canada. But to

> assume that Canada was a nation by the mundane definition of a sovereign

> state at anytime before 1982 is unjustifiable because the facts don't

> support it.

>

> And having said this much, the RCMP is the national police force of

> Canada; and of course is an arm of the Canadian national government. So

> why not just get the name right for the birthchart Chris is working with

>

> , Christopher Kevill

> <ckevill> wrote:

> > Just took a look at your file.

> > No mention of Mars there so I'm puzzled why you would think that

> the PSSR has much to do with what happened. I mean, 4 cops were

> shot -- that's Mars in my books. The Moon, Saturn, Mercury etc

> influences you mention all seem inferential and do not describe the

> fact that this was an act of violence. Chris

> >

> REPLY:

> Mars/transiting is shown on the chart I presented at 17 Capricorn,

> opposing Saturn/Transiting above the Ascendant, and square Jupiter/

> transiting in the 4th, and square Neptune/natal in the 10th. You

> can put all four together in various ways and emphasize one or the

> other:

> Mars = violence, hurt, blood, fighting.

> Saturn/Asc = harshness, defining acts, somber views.

> Jupiter = Legalities, social opportunities, larger views.

> Neptune = drugs, confusion, large groups, illusionary situations.

>

> Combine that with Canada's ASC at the IC of the progressed chart: a

> new and/or revised set of values may be considered, the end of a

> nation's assumptions and attitudes,etc.

>

> It looks like a reasonable chart for a nation-as-a-whole. I agree

> that I would expect stronger Mars-Mercury-Jupiter-Sun placements if

> I was doing a local chart or charts for individuals involved. But,

> for a national chart, this may be appropriate for the amount of

> attention and impact that this event will have.

>

> I just ran the chart to see what was offered. I had run charts that

> were relocated to the scene, but they were very bland and didn't

> seem to fit at all. At least this chart seemed to reflect the

> situation in terms of the national attitude. Dave.

> PS: Have you found other charts that better reflect this event?

" How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " -----

>

> Post message:

> Subscribe: -

> Un: -

> List owner: -owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, Christopher Kevill

<ckevill> wrote:

> Hey Dave, Sorry, but I don't see any obvious Mars hits on the

angles in your chart -- it's still quite a few degrees off. That's

the key for me. If Mars isn't obviously doing something for an

event like this, then I'm tempted to look elsewhere. Chris

>

REPLY:

Yes, Chris, I also would like to see something stronger. I have

looked for a chart representing the official formation of the RCMP

but the only information I can come up with is February, 1920. It

would seem to me that a RCMP chart or charts for the individuals

killed would have strong Mars positions.

 

A nationality chart, if it is valid, might not react quite as

strongly to the Mars factors but could react instead to symbology

for the Moon (public opinion) or other planets. I'm not trying to

excuse the lack of a precisely angular Mars, I'm just working with

what appears to be a controversial chart and possibly incorrect

data. Like I mentioned, even the relocated Canadian chart was

worthless -- and usually relocated charts are quite relevant.

 

I have also looked for the date/time when the Queen formally severed

legal ties with Canada -- perhaps some 15 to 20 years ago. Perhaps

that date/time would be appropriate. It just seems, from the data

that I can find, that there are a number of loose ends and

indefinite dates/times in the country's history that make finding a

good chart difficult.

 

***

For the others reading these posts, I am using precession corrected

tropical charts -- since I don't use signs (tropical or sidereal) it

makes no difference in my charting and interpretation. As I also

might have mentioned, I often work with students whose only

resources are tropical ephemerides or a beginner's reliance on

familiar tools. And, along that line of thought, I haven't yet

found a clear and definitive statement of what each sidereal sign is

supposed to convey in terms of qualities and attributes. Since we

are not using a seasonal zodiac, perhaps it is not necessary to have

a definition of signs or their usage. Dave.

[Guest guest]

Chris,

 

It's always a pleasure to read your work.

 

 

 

Christopher Kevill <ckevill wrote:

John

 

Thanks for your commentary, it's always enlightening.

 

However, the notion that Canada was anything other than a sovereign

country before 1982 is laughable. The formal ties to Westminster were

vestigial and pro forma only. This is why Queen Elizabeth can be head of

the Canadian state and yet she exercises no influence on Canadian

decision-making whatsoever. In fact, no British monarch ever has since

1867. The same situation is in effect for the other " white dominions " of

the former empire -- Australia and New Zealand.

 

Only once has the Queen's representative, the governor-general, had to

intercede in govt affairs when a deadlocked minority parliament in the

1920s had to be dissolved. In those days, the governor-general was

appointed by London, but had to be approved by the PM of Canada. Since

the 1950s the governor general has been appointed by Canada.

 

Chris

 

--- John T W B <jtwbjakarta wrote:

 

> Hi Group

>

> Chris' findings are very interesting. However a clarification is in

> order.

>

> The 19th century Constitutional Act-event of 1867 on which the

> birthchart in question is based can only be interpreted as the arrival

> date of Canada's national government, not the " nation " of Canada. The

> nation was still British because the State was still the United Kingdom.

> Canada's dominion status precluded Canada's sovereignty. No sovereignty

> = No State. Nicholas Campion's chart in his BOOK OF WORLD HOROSCOPES is

> the " Dominion of Canada " ....which decoded means the National Government

> of Canada within the State of the United Kingdom

>

> Whether or not Canada achieved sovereignty as recently as 1982 when the

> British Parliament constitutionally removed itself from any law making

> capacity in Canada is a matter worth exploring in regard to whether or

> not the Crown continued thereafter to be sovereign in Canada. But to

> assume that Canada was a nation by the mundane definition of a sovereign

> state at anytime before 1982 is unjustifiable because the facts don't

> support it.

>

> And having said this much, the RCMP is the national police force of

> Canada; and of course is an arm of the Canadian national government. So

> why not just get the name right for the birthchart Chris is working with

>

> , Christopher Kevill

> <ckevill> wrote:

> > Just took a look at your file.

> > No mention of Mars there so I'm puzzled why you would think that

> the PSSR has much to do with what happened. I mean, 4 cops were

> shot -- that's Mars in my books. The Moon, Saturn, Mercury etc

> influences you mention all seem inferential and do not describe the

> fact that this was an act of violence. Chris

> >

> REPLY:

> Mars/transiting is shown on the chart I presented at 17 Capricorn,

> opposing Saturn/Transiting above the Ascendant, and square Jupiter/

> transiting in the 4th, and square Neptune/natal in the 10th. You

> can put all four together in various ways and emphasize one or the

> other:

> Mars = violence, hurt, blood, fighting.

> Saturn/Asc = harshness, defining acts, somber views.

> Jupiter = Legalities, social opportunities, larger views.

> Neptune = drugs, confusion, large groups, illusionary situations.

>

> Combine that with Canada's ASC at the IC of the progressed chart: a

> new and/or revised set of values may be considered, the end of a

> nation's assumptions and attitudes,etc.

>

> It looks like a reasonable chart for a nation-as-a-whole. I agree

> that I would expect stronger Mars-Mercury-Jupiter-Sun placements if

> I was doing a local chart or charts for individuals involved. But,

> for a national chart, this may be appropriate for the amount of

> attention and impact that this event will have.

>

> I just ran the chart to see what was offered. I had run charts that

> were relocated to the scene, but they were very bland and didn't

> seem to fit at all. At least this chart seemed to reflect the

> situation in terms of the national attitude. Dave.

> PS: Have you found other charts that better reflect this event?

" How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " -----

>

> Post message:

> Subscribe: -

> Un: -

> List owner: -owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Using the chart for a 12:05 PM birthtime for Canada, relocated to

Mayerthorpe, and doing a precession corrected lunar return, yields a

chart with an East Point (90 degree square in right ascension to the

MC) of 279d 14m with return Mars conjunct at 279d 48m and return Moon

and natal Uranus opposite it at 99d 33m and 99d 25m respectively.

 

bob

 

, " Dave " <dadsnook@c...> wrote:

>

> , Christopher Kevill

> <ckevill> wrote:

> > This was the bloodiest day for the police in Canada in 120 years

> as 4 RCMP > officers were killed in a drug-related shootout. (snip)

> >

> > Many mundane astrologers, including Nicholas Campion (and his big

> book), observe the ceremonial proclamation of Canada at 12.05 pm as

> the correct natal chart. I've never believed that chart was the

> best one however, and this simple transit related event gives

> further support to the de jure midnight chart as the most useful.

> >

> > Chris

> >

> REPLY:

> Chris, I am not in a position to promote one Canadia birth chart

> over another one. However, the news about the four RCMP officers

> being killed was most intriguing. I use Moon Moores' Book of World

> Horoscopes -- for Canada he uses a chart set for Noontime. Using

> that chart, I first relocated the chart to the site of the killings,

> and then ran precession-corrected Solar Returns and then progressed

> the angles to March 3, 2005. The resulting chart was under-whelming

> in its lack of significance.

>

> (...)

>

> Dave.

[Guest guest]

Hi Bob,

 

Thanks for the info. It's not to say that other charts can't be used in

tandem. So if you find some hits using the proclamation chart useful in

this way, that's great. Still, you can't use the relo Mayerthorpe LR for

predictive purposes.

 

My point is which chart reveals information with the least effort? To me,

it's the midnight chart.

 

Chris

 

 

--- bobnicewander <jan61108 wrote:

 

>

> Using the chart for a 12:05 PM birthtime for Canada, relocated to

> Mayerthorpe, and doing a precession corrected lunar return, yields a

> chart with an East Point (90 degree square in right ascension to the

> MC) of 279d 14m with return Mars conjunct at 279d 48m and return Moon

> and natal Uranus opposite it at 99d 33m and 99d 25m respectively.

>

> bob

>

> , " Dave " <dadsnook@c...> wrote:

> >

> > , Christopher Kevill

> > <ckevill> wrote:

> > > This was the bloodiest day for the police in Canada in 120 years

> > as 4 RCMP > officers were killed in a drug-related shootout. (snip)

> > >

> > > Many mundane astrologers, including Nicholas Campion (and his big

> > book), observe the ceremonial proclamation of Canada at 12.05 pm as

> > the correct natal chart. I've never believed that chart was the

> > best one however, and this simple transit related event gives

> > further support to the de jure midnight chart as the most useful.

> > >

> > > Chris

> > >

> > REPLY:

> > Chris, I am not in a position to promote one Canadia birth chart

> > over another one. However, the news about the four RCMP officers

> > being killed was most intriguing. I use Moon Moores' Book of World

> > Horoscopes -- for Canada he uses a chart set for Noontime. Using

> > that chart, I first relocated the chart to the site of the killings,

> > and then ran precession-corrected Solar Returns and then progressed

> > the angles to March 3, 2005. The resulting chart was under-whelming

> > in its lack of significance.

> >

> > (...)

> >

> > Dave.

>

>

>

>

 

 

=====

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[Guest guest]

Hi Chris,

 

The square in right ascension to the ascendant of the 12:05 PM (an

approximate time perhaps) chart located in Ottawa is 97d 19m. The

right ascension of the Moon in this chart is 96d 52m. The midpoint of

transiting Mars and Pluto at 1:34 PM was 96d 48m, opposite that Moon

and square to that ascendant.

 

bob

 

, Christopher Kevill

<ckevill> wrote:

> Hi Bob,

>

> Thanks for the info. It's not to say that other charts can't be used in

> tandem. So if you find some hits using the proclamation chart useful in

> this way, that's great. Still, you can't use the relo Mayerthorpe

LR for

> predictive purposes.

>

> My point is which chart reveals information with the least effort?

To me,

> it's the midnight chart.

>

> Chris

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave,

 

 

> A nationality chart, if it is valid, might not react quite as

> strongly to the Mars factors but could react instead to symbology

> for the Moon (public opinion) or other planets. I'm not trying to

> excuse the lack of a precisely angular Mars, I'm just working with

> what appears to be a controversial chart and possibly incorrect

> data. Like I mentioned, even the relocated Canadian chart was

> worthless -- and usually relocated charts are quite relevant.

 

For an event such as this that is clearly time delimited and has clear

symbolic expression in the planets (MARS!), if you are not seeing it with

the chart and techniques you are using, then there is good reason to

reexamine both. Natal Mars was opposed by transit Uranus within 2 minutes

and transit Mars squared the ascendnat of the midnight chart within one

degree. To me, that's a hit for the midnight chart. It doesn't prove

that it's the best chart obviously, but given what we know about other

midnight charts that have some popularity in the mundane astrology world

(India, UK, Australia, etc), it is a strong reason to continue to use the

midnight chart for predictive purposes -- which is the only reason for

doing mundane astrology IMO.

 

>

> I have also looked for the date/time when the Queen formally severed

> legal ties with Canada -- perhaps some 15 to 20 years ago. Perhaps

> that date/time would be appropriate. It just seems, from the data

> that I can find, that there are a number of loose ends and

> indefinite dates/times in the country's history that make finding a

> good chart difficult.

 

Every country is going to have these sorts of loose ends. Every country

has stages in its evolution that results in several different charts.

This is a standard problem for astrologers. You can use them all if you

like. Iraq now has half a dozen possible charts one can use. Which one

is correct? Maybe they all are. Maybe none are. You have to test them

out, and begin making predictions with them and see how accurate you are.

 

 

>

> ***

> For the others reading these posts, I am using precession corrected

> tropical charts -- since I don't use signs (tropical or sidereal) it

> makes no difference in my charting and interpretation. As I also

> might have mentioned, I often work with students whose only

> resources are tropical ephemerides or a beginner's reliance on

> familiar tools. And, along that line of thought, I haven't yet

> found a clear and definitive statement of what each sidereal sign is

> supposed to convey in terms of qualities and attributes. Since we

> are not using a seasonal zodiac, perhaps it is not necessary to have

> a definition of signs or their usage. Dave.

 

I'm with Dark Star on this question. Sidereal signs are read as if they

are tropical signs. No difference. If someone has a lot of Aries in

their sidereal chart then look for an assertiveness and greater initiating

energy there. Hindu astrology assigns some different significations to

them but for the most part they are the same.

 

cheers,

Chris

 

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