Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Unless it allready exists, may I suggest that all you experienced siderealists together put up a web page such as this: http://groups.msn.com/HOROSCOPESCHAT/zodiacandglyphs.msnw One can for instance click on " mars in aries " and then read different peoples opinions: http://groups.msn.com/interpretations2/marsinaries1.msnw Electional astrology should probably be used to time the " birth " of such a web portal. (hmm, I should have timed this question, but I don't have the necessary knowlede) I have a HUGE self interest here as such a sidereal page would be a tremendous information source for a newbie such as me :-) So: pretty please with suger on top: DO IT ! ! ! ! ! ! Best Wishes, Steinar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 , " Steinar " <steinar@n...> wrote: > > Unless it allready exists, may I suggest that all you experienced > siderealists together put up a web page such as this: > http://groups.msn.com/HOROSCOPESCHAT/zodiacandglyphs.msnw REPLY: Steinar, I can only give you part of the answer you are looking for. Others will have to provide other answers. Some may disagree with my take on this. From what I have seen in my brief tour of this site, and from what I have observed of the practices of " Siderealists " in other places, this practice is quite individualistic and may not have the general consensus of meanings that have been developed by tropical adherents through their many books, magazines and practices. As an example, other than for natal charts and mundane/political applications I do not use signs, houses, and most aspects. So, right there if I were to construct a webpage similar to what you have suggested, 90% of it would vanish. Further, from what I have witnessed on other sites, most " newbees " have not taken the time to become fully grounded in the various calculations required for basic charting and the supporting math that goes with it. IMHO, if you can't do Sidereal work with manual calculations instead of a computer, then you are likely to make mistakes in your application of using computer generated charts. The methodology, for me, goes beyond where generalized computer programs go. Some of my needs can only be met at this time with manually generated charts. Certainly, using those charts and recognizing when something isn't right requires a solid grounding. Since there are already good instructional texts available for most Sidereal techniques, those are best used. Sites such as this may work best in helping you better understand the work that you yourself have done by offering suggestions about which charts you have used for what purpose and how you have interpreted them. By all of this, I am not suggesting in any way that sidereal work is not for those new to it -- we all had to jump in. But, I have not found anything that would substitute for just hard work and diligence in going through books and just doing charts. I'll look forward to seeing what other answers are offered. I will finish by offering to answer any specific question you may have from time to time assuming that it falls within my areas of practice. I'm sure others will also be willing to help in this way. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 At 12:04 PM 1/28/05 +0100, Steinar wrote: > > >Unless it allready exists, may I suggest that all you experienced >siderealists together put up a web page such as this: >http://groups.msn.com/HOROSCOPESCHAT/zodiacandglyphs.msnw > >One can for instance click on " mars in aries " and then read different >peoples opinions:... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Steiner, you won't ever get such a page from siderealists because astrologers of the Fagan school hardly look at planets in signs. It's all about aspects and angular planets and these are reasonably similar in any system. This is why the internet forums exist. Daily we read the personal opinions and experience of various astrologers. After a while an understanding settles in and you pretty well know what any individual astrologer is going to say on any particular forum. Also individual astrologers do have their web sites, and a look at them will give you an understanding of where theyr're coming from. Here's my web page: http://users.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm I expect that old-time siderealists on this site will simply say: " Read the sidereal.zip file in the files section of this forum. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 With all due respect, please be a bit more open minded: Even if the sidereal portal only will be 1% the size of a tropical one, it is still worth doing. Sure the information is on individual pages, but that makes them less accessible for two reasons: A) The total amount of info is harder to find, or takes more effort for the newbie B) The individual pages will have a tendency to disappear with the individual when he/she looses interest. (or passes away) The fact that such individual pages exists makes a portal even easier to create sine most is already written. This is a great boon ! -not a hindrance If the literature is out of print, a portal becomes even more important. I implore you all to meditate on this, break the habitual thinking patterns and be creative for the better good of all. Sincerely, Steinar, holder of the shortest straw :-) Therese Hamilton [eastwest] Friday, January 28, 2005 5:34 PM Re: Sidereal portal At 12:04 PM 1/28/05 +0100, Steinar wrote: > > >Unless it allready exists, may I suggest that all you experienced >siderealists together put up a web page such as this: >http://groups.msn.com/HOROSCOPESCHAT/zodiacandglyphs.msnw > >One can for instance click on " mars in aries " and then read different >peoples opinions:... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Steiner, you won't ever get such a page from siderealists because astrologers of the Fagan school hardly look at planets in signs. It's all about aspects and angular planets and these are reasonably similar in any system. This is why the internet forums exist. Daily we read the personal opinions and experience of various astrologers. After a while an understanding settles in and you pretty well know what any individual astrologer is going to say on any particular forum. Also individual astrologers do have their web sites, and a look at them will give you an understanding of where theyr're coming from. Here's my web page: http://users.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm I expect that old-time siderealists on this site will simply say: " Read the sidereal.zip file in the files section of this forum. Therese " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Jivio wrote: >Therese.... " old time " siderealists implies being " out of touch " ... >Are the " faganites " out of touch? Juan, No, I didn't mean that. I meant that they stay close to the tradition as set by Fagan and Bradley, Stahl, etc. I seriously question getting too far away from the western sidereal tradition, as then we'll lose the contributions of the sidereal pioneers. We probably need a new name for the hybred that's emerging between Jyotish and some of the western sidereal tenets so that it's kept separate from the traditional Fagan school. Any suggestions, anyone?? >I think suggesting one ayanamsa is >better than the other is a " dog chasing its tail game " . Research will finally settle the ayanamsa question. At least that's my hope. If we're using varga charts such as the navamsa, the ayanamsa makes a difference. Though I recently read an article (in the process of organizing my files) where (I think it was Kevin) pointed out close overlaps between family members with the F-B ayanamsa in the dwad charts. That article will turn up again, and I can be more specific. Right now I'm only separating the 'toss' from the 'keep' files. > When I challenge or disagree with you keep in mind that I think the >world of you. Your presence here has inspired a very pro-active >environment and for that we all owe you a debt of graditude. Thank you, Juan! Especially considering that I tend more toward Jyotish than western sidereal techniques--except for return and ingress charts. One strong point that helps this list is that we aren't afraid to challenge or disagree with each other. That does a lot to keep the list alive. One Tropical list I check every so often that should be full of professionals with lots of ideas has all but died out because no one dares say anything that challenges another person. " Oh, let's just love each other--anything goes. " won't promote anything but boredom and confusion. Thanks again, Therese > > > > > >> >As an example, other than for natal charts and mundane/political >> >applications I do not use signs, houses, and most aspects. >> >> There you go! You're an oldtimer. >> > > >Or is Dave(today)the cutting edge of Sidereal Astrology? > > >> >IMHO, if you can't do Sidereal work with manual >> >calculations instead of a computer, then you are likely to make >> >mistakes in your application of using computer generated charts. >The >> >methodology, for me, goes beyond where generalized computer >programs >> >go. >> >> If you're asking newbies or those converted from the Tropical >zodiac to >> learn to do calculations by hand, you're going to assure that >sidereal >> astrology will disappear with the over age 50 current >practitioners. This >> is initially why sidereal astrology didn't take off. It's too math >> intensive. This reqires a much different mental aptitiude than >astrologers >> in general are likely to display. > >Therese: You did it the same way... and embraced it... >I believe what Dave is expressing is that to understand the dynamics >completely one learns how to do the calulations by hand.... >Especially if one intends to go beyond the capabilities of software. >NOVA the premier software for so many years was a siderealist driven >software. The options available within it taught tropicalists and >siderealists alike about various mathmatical processess. Awesome >software that is still working on today's operating systems. >Tropicalists discovered that precession correction provided a better >vehicle for predictive purposes. If " astrologers in general " do not >grasp the mathmatics, the meaning of anglearity, the measures of >space and time then are they astrologers? > > > > > >> >> I'm probably a good example. I 'learned' sidereal astrology in the >70s. But >> it didn't really stick, and I can read articles today that simply >pass me >> by. Solar quotidian progression, Neo-quotidian, PSSR, debates about >which >> progression rate to use, etc. All basically Greek to me. I decamped >for >> Jyotish and of late, Hellenistic studies. But I can read the charts >that >> are posted--more or less. > > >Your interest is not in the math techniques used but your interests >are philisophical, psychological and historical. Those of us(and who >knows, maybe its a guy thing)who want to know how it operates are >into the math and the engineering of cyclical activity. Someday we >may be able to understand it in waves instead of cyclical notions. > > > >> >> However, solar and lunar returns are extremely valuable. This may >be the >> lasting legacy of the Fagan-Bradley school. I personally have not >found the >> Fagan-Bradley ayanamsa to be valid. The debate rages on. I hope that >> someday research can settle the ayanamsa issue. > > >The Fagan/Bradley school or as I refer to as Sidereal Astrology >provided a greater contribution than simply solar and lunar returns. >The ayanamsa issue is one of personal choice, experience and until >judged otherwise. > > > >> >> >Since there are already good instructional texts available for >most >> >Sidereal techniques, those are best used. >> >> Actuallly this isn't true. Most of the texts are out of print. The >only way >> to remedy this is to have all of the information on the web. >Probably the >> only current information on learning Fagan's sidereal astrology is >Kenneth >> Bowser's correspondence course. (Typing 'Kenneth Bowser western >sidereal >> astrology' into a search engine will take you to his site.) Some >articles >> in sidereal.zip are simply out of date or personal musing and >opinion. >> > >I agree with Dave and Therese here in that much knowledge has been >done and recorded however it is not readily available. My ambition is >to remedy the existing lack of available information. Efforts have >begun to compile the works of Siderealists and to make it available. >It will take a team effort and everyone with a desire to help is >encouraged to contact me directly. What I want to see is if a >siderealist can write a contemporary book on signs. The debate here >is are there Sidereal Signs? Sidereal.zip like most efforts require >editing and refinement over time. It will emerge in a different >format and be contempoary. > >> > But, I have not >> >found anything that would substitute for just hard work and >> >diligence in going through books and just doing charts. >> >> This is true, but the student still needs to have basic texts that >explain >> the fundmentals. >> >> Thanks again, Dave. >> >> Therese > > >Ahhhhhhhhh......... We agree........... > > >Jivio(To Life!) > > & (I learned this the other day and love it) > >May the transits be with you... > >Juan > > > >PS: I'm thinking a Siderealist Symposium sometime this summer..... >or Get " out of the box " with Siderealists, A Summer Series....... > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > >Shortcut URL to this page: >/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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