Guest guest Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Dear Members I am sorry, my previous message was meant for my own group and not this one. I still stand by my comments but I was in particular referring to one group which I joined recently which should probably remain unmentioned. This group and the sidereal group are the only groups I actually read now as there is at least an effort at honest and open discussions without all the crap you see elsewhere where endless theories are spun without any concrete examples to back them up. On that particular group that I joined there was talk of Jaimani sutras, Chara and Shoola Dasha and many other theories. Never once was an example given or an event noted to where any of these techniques were shown to actually work. I also read a long winded article on these particular sign based aspects and yogas from Jaimani. I actually contacted the author and asked him to interpret only two of these yogas in my chart to show me they had any merit. I got the usual deafening silence for my answer. The recent election had many big name astrologers in India saying Kerry would win. This in itself was not a problem but when you read their reasons, you have to wonder what is going on. Many predicted purely on the basis that Kerry had certain raja yogas so was destined to be top man. Anybody who has spent more than five minutes in astrology knows EVERY chart has some form of raja yoga according to traditional texts. Like Chris Kevill, Ron Grimes, Ron Day and others, I want to see astrology working clearly at an event if possible. I use KP, tertiary progressions, solar returns and the dasha progressed Moon as my basic tools. While I still use the rashi chart I feel for prediction the starlord and its sub are far more important than the planets sign position. This is why so many raja yogas are made impotent. A seemingly well placed planet may end up a malefic in some cases. I will give you an example to show you how easy it is to mislead somebody with bad astrology. I was contacted by a person who had Jupiter in the 11th house. A well known astrologer predicted the coming Jupiter mahadasha was going to bring home the bacon and a yellow sappire could be worn to enhance the prosperity. On entering this so called golden dasha the person got divorced, ended up in a nasty court battle, had a serious accident and basically life went very badly. When I looked at the chart I saw Aries rising and Jupiter indeed in the 11th house. However, it was in Dhanishta the star of Mars and was exactly opposed by Mars. So in KP, Jupiter would give the results of Mars. Where was Mars? Mars was in Leo in the star of Venus. Venus rules the 7th (marriage) and 2nd (longevity of marriage) for an Aries ascendant. Venus is also significator of marriage and happiness. So Mars was indeed a destroyer of marriage in this chart. Venus is also a double maraka or killing planet for the Aries ascendant. Mars was a dangerous force in this chart even though it was ascendant lord. Jupiter was in the star of Mars at birth. In KP this shows it will give the results of Mars in its dasha and the houses Mars signifies. Mars also rules 1st and 8th houses for an Aries ascendant. The fact Mars aspected Jupiter made it worse. A traditional Vedic astrologer may of thought Mars as lagna lord would not hurt by aspect. Total bollocks as shown by what happened to her. If I had seen this once I would understand the skeptics, I have seen this so many times I cannot use the traditional rashi chart in a confident way anymore without using KP for confirmation. This was again proved to me by a man who called from the US. He had a number of readings done. One by a westie named Rob H which he said was hopeless. The next by a famous horary astrologer who predicted he would die. He then had a Vedic reading by a man called Gary. I told him all I could see in KP was that his marriage was in trouble. A week later his wife left him. This Gary the Vedic astrologer made him a list of predictions. After a year I asked this guy about these predictions. He laughed and said if he reversed every prediction and considered the exact opposite of what was said, it would have been a great reading. While this is funny you must remember he paid good money for this reading. I rarely ask for money and do not practice astrology as a job or profession. For the most part I consider it a dishonest profession. This guy has not dropped dead either yet LOL I could give 50 more examples of the above, this same guy went to a Sanjay Rath seminar, he was informed. " Your atmakaraka is Saturn- you were born to suffer " he thought he was doomed. It took me hours on the phone to explain to him that all the bad aspects I saw related more to his wife and his marriage. This proved correct and he said my interpretation of his wife and marriage was 100% accurate using KP. Then there is the ones who flog expensive remedies.Yagyas, gems, kavaches etc. I have another few stories about these. I don't doubt that somewhere in time these things were probably used correctly and offered by the wise. Now they are just flogged for a quick buck. As my mate Bob Adamson said to me just last night. " You can have a million spiritual experiences, you can preach a million different ideas, you can ask a million questions, you never stop and ask. " Who wants to know? " So when confused about astrology ask " Who wants to know? " then go have a nice cup of tea and forget about it LOL Andrew - Fatboy Andrew Friday, January 21, 2005 8:43 AM The reasons for this group Dear New Member The reason I started this group was simple. I joined most of the groups on the net to see what was being discussed and frankly there was nothing worth reading or studying. Just a lot of the same people talking the same bullshit that has been going on for years. No blind charts, no practical research, no discussions of any real useful nature. Personally I don't really care, it is the student or person who is interested in astrology who suffers with so many contradicting ideas being canvassed. My current belief is KP or stellar astrology is by far the best system to use for prediction, natal readings and prashna. I have proved this to myself by my own efforts and don't feel the need to prove it to anyone. Prashna is a fascinating subject but even the most experienced astrologer struggles with it. Hopefully in this forum we can use prashna for current sporting events etc, so we can all see it working. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Hi Everyone, Just wanted you to know that the post Andrew refers to wasn't sent through to this forum, since it was meant to go to another list. However, some of you will be interested in Andrew's comments in his second post which has been sent through. Therese t 10:23 AM 1/21/05 +1100, Andrew wrote: > >Dear Members > >I am sorry, my previous message was meant for my own group and not this one. I still stand by my comments but I was in particular referring to one group which I joined recently which should probably remain unmentioned. This group and the sidereal group are the only groups I actually read now as there is at least an effort at honest and open discussions without all the crap you see elsewhere where endless theories are spun without any concrete examples to back them up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Dear Andrew, Good to hear your voice here, as always. I don't understand how so many would-be astrologers can fall under the sway of unproven theories, but they do. I suppose that's the " spiritual " dimension of astrology kicking in and leading people astray. And here I thought astrology was an empirical science. Whatever our preferences and disagreements, it's important for all empirically-oriented astrologers to continue to demand evidence of how a particular idea or concept works in practice. Chris --- Fatboy Andrew <skinbags wrote: > > > > > Dear Members > > I am sorry, my previous message was meant for my own group and not this > one. I still stand by my comments but I was in particular referring to > one group which I joined recently which should probably remain > unmentioned. This group and the sidereal group are the only groups I > actually read now as there is at least an effort at honest and open > discussions without all the crap you see elsewhere where endless > theories are spun without any concrete examples to back them up. > > On that particular group that I joined there was talk of Jaimani sutras, > Chara and Shoola Dasha and many other theories. Never once was an > example given or an event noted to where any of these techniques were > shown to actually work. I also read a long winded article on these > particular sign based aspects and yogas from Jaimani. I actually > contacted the author and asked him to interpret only two of these yogas > in my chart to show me they had any merit. I got the usual deafening > silence for my answer. > > The recent election had many big name astrologers in India saying Kerry > would win. This in itself was not a problem but when you read their > reasons, you have to wonder what is going on. Many predicted purely on > the basis that Kerry had certain raja yogas so was destined to be top > man. Anybody who has spent more than five minutes in astrology knows > EVERY chart has some form of raja yoga according to traditional texts. > > Like Chris Kevill, Ron Grimes, Ron Day and others, I want to see > astrology working clearly at an event if possible. I use KP, tertiary > progressions, solar returns and the dasha progressed Moon as my basic > tools. While I still use the rashi chart I feel for prediction the > starlord and its sub are far more important than the planets sign > position. This is why so many raja yogas are made impotent. A seemingly > well placed planet may end up a malefic in some cases. > > I will give you an example to show you how easy it is to mislead > somebody with bad astrology. I was contacted by a person who had Jupiter > in the 11th house. A well known astrologer predicted the coming Jupiter > mahadasha was going to bring home the bacon and a yellow sappire could > be worn to enhance the prosperity. > > On entering this so called golden dasha the person got divorced, ended > up in a nasty court battle, had a serious accident and basically life > went very badly. When I looked at the chart I saw Aries rising and > Jupiter indeed in the 11th house. However, it was in Dhanishta the star > of Mars and was exactly opposed by Mars. So in KP, Jupiter would give > the results of Mars. Where was Mars? Mars was in Leo in the star of > Venus. Venus rules the 7th (marriage) and 2nd (longevity of marriage) > for an Aries ascendant. Venus is also significator of marriage and > happiness. So Mars was indeed a destroyer of marriage in this chart. > Venus is also a double maraka or killing planet for the Aries ascendant. > Mars was a dangerous force in this chart even though it was ascendant > lord. > > Jupiter was in the star of Mars at birth. In KP this shows it will give > the results of Mars in its dasha and the houses Mars signifies. Mars > also rules 1st and 8th houses for an Aries ascendant. The fact Mars > aspected Jupiter made it worse. A traditional Vedic astrologer may of > thought Mars as lagna lord would not hurt by aspect. Total bollocks as > shown by what happened to her. > > If I had seen this once I would understand the skeptics, I have seen > this so many times I cannot use the traditional rashi chart in a > confident way anymore without using KP for confirmation. This was again > proved to me by a man who called from the US. He had a number of > readings done. One by a westie named Rob H which he said was hopeless. > The next by a famous horary astrologer who predicted he would die. He > then had a Vedic reading by a man called Gary. I told him all I could > see in KP was that his marriage was in trouble. A week later his wife > left him. > > This Gary the Vedic astrologer made him a list of predictions. After a > year I asked this guy about these predictions. He laughed and said if he > reversed every prediction and considered the exact opposite of what was > said, it would have been a great reading. While this is funny you must > remember he paid good money for this reading. I rarely ask for money and > do not practice astrology as a job or profession. For the most part I > consider it a dishonest profession. This guy has not dropped dead either > yet LOL > > I could give 50 more examples of the above, this same guy went to a > Sanjay Rath seminar, he was informed. " Your atmakaraka is Saturn- you > were born to suffer " he thought he was doomed. It took me hours on the > phone to explain to him that all the bad aspects I saw related more to > his wife and his marriage. This proved correct and he said my > interpretation of his wife and marriage was 100% accurate using KP. > > Then there is the ones who flog expensive remedies.Yagyas, gems, > kavaches etc. I have another few stories about these. I don't doubt that > somewhere in time these things were probably used correctly and offered > by the wise. Now they are just flogged for a quick buck. > > As my mate Bob Adamson said to me just last night. " You can have a > million spiritual experiences, you can preach a million different ideas, > you can ask a million questions, you never stop and ask. " Who wants to > know? " > > So when confused about astrology ask " Who wants to know? " then go have a > nice cup of tea and forget about it LOL > > Andrew > > > > > - > Fatboy Andrew > > Friday, January 21, 2005 8:43 AM > The reasons for this group > > > Dear New Member > > The reason I started this group was simple. I joined most of the > groups on the net to see what was being discussed and frankly there was > nothing worth reading or studying. Just a lot of the same people talking > the same bullshit that has been going on for years. > > No blind charts, no practical research, no discussions of any real > useful nature. Personally I don't really care, it is the student or > person who is interested in astrology who suffers with so many > contradicting ideas being canvassed. > > My current belief is KP or stellar astrology is by far the best system > to use for prediction, natal readings and prashna. I have proved this to > myself by my own efforts and don't feel the need to prove it to anyone. > Prashna is a fascinating subject but even the most experienced > astrologer struggles with it. > > Hopefully in this forum we can use prashna for current sporting events > etc, so we can all see it working. > > Andrew > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Yo Andrew... Your post was interesting reading however I'm not an Indian/Vedic astrologer. You write, " Like Chris Kevill, Ron Grimes, Ron Day and others, I want to see astrology working clearly at an event if possible. I use KP, tertiary progressions, solar returns and the dasha progressed Moon as my basic tools. While I still use the rashi chart I feel for prediction the starlord and its sub are far more important than the planets sign position. " This is a western siderealist group and though we may be few, if you wish us to understand your version of sidereal please explain what they mean. Just as you hate to be mislead by bad astrology, so do I and in this perspective you and I are in agreement... jivio , " Fatboy Andrew " <skinbags@o...> wrote: > > > > > Dear Members > > I am sorry, my previous message was meant for my own group and not this one. I still stand by my comments but I was in particular referring to one group which I joined recently which should probably remain unmentioned. This group and the sidereal group are the only groups I actually read now as there is at least an effort at honest and open discussions without all the crap you see elsewhere where endless theories are spun without any concrete examples to back them up. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 > * It is easier to expand one's jargon rather than one's > understanding. And baffle the student with bullshit and long sanskrit words that sound all mystical and meaningful. > * It is easier to be a collector of techniques, awards, and > certifications, than it is to be a master of the essentials. Jyotish Kovid, Jyotish Archarya, We even have one Professor of Vedic astrology. What is the essential meaning of astrology? Is it not just to reveal the linear illusion of time? All of Vedic astrology is based on the Moon. Meaning all is mind made like the Buddha preached. Does the mind even really exist or is there just thinking happening? Can you ever live in the past or the future? Isn't it only just thinking projecting itself into the past or a perceived future? What is wrong with right now? - unless you think about it...............LOL....................... > * If is easier to become an authority by writing books and articles > than it is to make accurate predictions repeatedly. And go on tour hawking your wares at seminars etc. > * Astrologers believe that everyone's opinion deserves to be heard - > even if the person offering the opinion is just plain full of sh** > and hasn't ever predicted anything correctly. Yes, there is such a thing as an informed opinion. I don't ask my butcher about my skin cancer problems. You don't back a horse with no form either..................... If someone is willing > to speak about astrology, they are indiscriminately willing to > listen because, after all, in the New Age doctrine, " Your opinion is > just as valid as mine. " They haven't learned the scientific > doctrine, " Your opinion is crap until you prove otherwise. " The dictionary definition of " a belief " is.-- " An unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason; acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge of proof. " How often do you see people putting words in the mouth of parashara or even Jesus as if the people quoting them were just on the phone to either of them. > * Astrologers are the pond skimmers of life, mistaking the covering > of much territory for having depth. Hopesalesmen most of them......................... Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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