American Election

November 3, 2004

It appears that Patrice and I were in agreement on this one. How

anyone - including Kenneth Bowser and Robert Zoller - could have

believed otherwise is a wonder to behold. But then, as one of my first

astrology teachers (God rest her soul) liked to quip, 'Unknown

astrologers who make accurate predictions are quickly forgotten.

Famous astrologers who make inaccurate predictions are easily

forgiven.' Such are the fortunes of astrology.

Andrew

November 3, 2004

At 02:52 PM 11/3/04 -0000, Andrew wrote:

>

>It appears that Patrice and I were in agreement on this one. How

>anyone - including Kenneth Bowser and Robert Zoller - could have

>believed otherwise is a wonder to behold.

Andrew,

It's the techniques and how they were applied that are behind Ken Bowser's

and every other astrologer's prediction. The astrologers lost on this one,

including myself, except for Chris, you and some others including Dark*Star

who said something like: " The current administration will remain by hook or

by crook! " I'll find my list of printed predictions and list the names of

list members here who were correct. Maybe they'll be some discussion about

how certain techniques failed.

The most confusing fact to me is why there was dissension in the Vedic

camp, with disagreement even among the pros. Chris Kevill used a western

technique (stations a la Richard Houck) for his prediction, even though

he's a Vedic astrologer.

With Uranus and Neptune all through the election charts, vote fraud may be

just under the surface (electornic touch machines manufactured by

Republican companies, for example), but that should make no difference in

astrologers being able to see who will be inaugurated in 2005. Fasten your

seatbelts, everyone. If W is inaugurated, this country will be going down

the tubes--fast.

(My first and final non-astrological political commentary.)

Therese

November 3, 2004

Dear Sidereal Group.....Congrats to the astrologer's who correctly predicted. I

also was in the Kerry camp. Partly by astrology, mostly by just " Please God, not

4 more years " . But none the less I would like to see a posting of who and how

many predicted correctly.

I received a post from ex-member Kay Cavender yesterday predicting Bush, and

she had firmly been there for months. And like you Therese I think we are headed

for something formidable. It is after all the Kali Yuga, the changing and

breaking up of old energies.

Love and light Kit Karson

Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote:

At 02:52 PM 11/3/04 -0000, Andrew wrote:

>

>It appears that Patrice and I were in agreement on this one. How

>anyone - including Kenneth Bowser and Robert Zoller - could have

>believed otherwise is a wonder to behold.

Andrew,

It's the techniques and how they were applied that are behind Ken Bowser's

and every other astrologer's prediction. The astrologers lost on this one,

including myself, except for Chris, you and some others including Dark*Star

who said something like: " The current administration will remain by hook or

by crook! " I'll find my list of printed predictions and list the names of

list members here who were correct. Maybe they'll be some discussion about

how certain techniques failed.

The most confusing fact to me is why there was dissension in the Vedic

camp, with disagreement even among the pros. Chris Kevill used a western

technique (stations a la Richard Houck) for his prediction, even though

he's a Vedic astrologer.

With Uranus and Neptune all through the election charts, vote fraud may be

just under the surface (electornic touch machines manufactured by

Republican companies, for example), but that should make no difference in

astrologers being able to see who will be inaugurated in 2005. Fasten your

seatbelts, everyone. If W is inaugurated, this country will be going down

the tubes--fast.

(My first and final non-astrological political commentary.)

Therese

" How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " -----

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

List owner: -owner

Shortcut URL to this page:

/

November 3, 2004

Therese,

>

> The most confusing fact to me is why there was dissension in the Vedic

> camp, with disagreement even among the pros. Chris Kevill used a western

> technique (stations a la Richard Houck) for his prediction, even though

> he's a Vedic astrologer.

>

Thanks for the mention here. Just to clarify, it shouldn't come as any

surprise that there would be a difference of opinion within all branches of

astrology on this result, and Vedic is no different. It is not a fixed

system of principles or ideas. Like Western astrology, the ability of a

Vedic astrologer to get a prediction right has more to do with the

astrologer's insight than the system he or she is using.

Also, while I did use western progressions on some sidereal and western

lists to predict Bush, I also wrote a pure Vedic article that called Bush.

It was published in an Indian astrological magazine in mid October. I can

post it here if you'd like.

Chris

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.714 / Virus Database: 470 - Release 7/2/04

November 3, 2004

Dear Chris and Therese,

This sounds interesting. I would like to see the vedic article about Bush.

Greetings,

Anne

-

Christopher Kevill

Wednesday, November 03, 2004 9:54 PM

Re: Re: American Election

Therese,

>

> The most confusing fact to me is why there was dissension in the Vedic

> camp, with disagreement even among the pros. Chris Kevill used a western

> technique (stations a la Richard Houck) for his prediction, even though

> he's a Vedic astrologer.

>

Thanks for the mention here. Just to clarify, it shouldn't come as any

surprise that there would be a difference of opinion within all branches of

astrology on this result, and Vedic is no different. It is not a fixed

system of principles or ideas. Like Western astrology, the ability of a

Vedic astrologer to get a prediction right has more to do with the

astrologer's insight than the system he or she is using.

Also, while I did use western progressions on some sidereal and western

lists to predict Bush, I also wrote a pure Vedic article that called Bush.

It was published in an Indian astrological magazine in mid October. I can

post it here if you'd like.

Chris

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.714 / Virus Database: 470 - Release 7/2/04

" How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " -----

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

List owner: -owner

Shortcut URL to this page:

/

November 3, 2004

Dear Chris

PLEASE do post here your Vedic Article that called for Bush here.

I will be very interested in studying it closely.

Debra

, " Christopher Kevill "

<christopher.kevill@s...> wrote:

> Therese,

>

> >

> > The most confusing fact to me is why there was dissension in the

Vedic

> > camp, with disagreement even among the pros. Chris Kevill used a

western

> > technique (stations a la Richard Houck) for his prediction, even

though

> > he's a Vedic astrologer.

> >

>

> Thanks for the mention here. Just to clarify, it shouldn't come

as any

> surprise that there would be a difference of opinion within all

branches of

> astrology on this result, and Vedic is no different. It is not a

fixed

> system of principles or ideas. Like Western astrology, the

ability of a

> Vedic astrologer to get a prediction right has more to do with the

> astrologer's insight than the system he or she is using.

>

> Also, while I did use western progressions on some sidereal and

western

> lists to predict Bush, I also wrote a pure Vedic article that

called Bush.

> It was published in an Indian astrological magazine in mid

October. I can

> post it here if you'd like.

>

> Chris

>

> ---

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> Version: 6.0.714 / Virus Database: 470 - Release 7/2/04

November 3, 2004

Yes, Chris, please do post the article! It might help to throw some light

on western return charts and why the standard interpretations didn't seem

to work.

It surprises me that the Vedic system isn't more standardized, as we are

often led to believe. I know that System Approach has its own rules,

however, but Thor T. went on record months ago for Kerry.

I don't believe the vote tallies, by the way. I think there was some

'fixin' involved, but then that's what many of us expected to happen

anyway. There was so much 'black box' voting in this election, and no way

to trace or verify those votes.

Thanks,

Therese

At 03:54 PM 11/3/04 -0500, Chris Kevill wrote:

>

>Thanks for the mention here. Just to clarify, it shouldn't come as any

>surprise that there would be a difference of opinion within all branches of

>astrology on this result, and Vedic is no different. It is not a fixed

>system of principles or ideas. Like Western astrology, the ability of a

>Vedic astrologer to get a prediction right has more to do with the

>astrologer's insight than the system he or she is using.

>

>Also, while I did use western progressions on some sidereal and western

>lists to predict Bush, I also wrote a pure Vedic article that called Bush.

>It was published in an Indian astrological magazine in mid October. I can

>post it here if you'd like.

November 4, 2004

'all find my list of printed predictions and list the names of

> list members here who were correct. Maybe they'll be some

discussion about

> how certain techniques failed. Therese

Therese, PLEASE do find and list the names of list members who were

correct in Bush winning prediction. I would really like to study

their techniques and reasoning. In addition, would take great

interest in how other techniques failed.

>Fasten your

seatbelts, everyone. If W is inaugurated, this country will be

going down

> the tubes--fast.

>

> (My first and final non-astrological political commentary.)

>

> Therese

To Therese and All:

I disagree that with " W " being inaugurated that " the country will be

going down the tubes --- fast. " In fact, I feel the country will be

in better hands for our country's future.

Now, whether George Bush completes his next four years in office

(illness, death or personal threat) is something that needs to be

considered. However, in general I feel that not until 2012 (the

election of 2008 will be a complete disaster) will this country have

a chance to balance out the polarization of republicans vs.

democratic. In the meantime, terrorism issues, social and economic

issues of entitlement and aging population will be the top issues of

any presidency. The very real terrorism in the world today and how

it will effect and does affect the USA is the number one issue to

deal with. If not, it doesn't matter what else we have in place if

we are destroyed by terrorism from not only the religious factions

of the Middle East but from Asia.

The responsibility that the USA has as a social and economic leader

in the world is enormous and can not be discounted when so many

count on us for humanitarian needs and education; riding bullies

(religious or not) that oppress their countries or people of their

factions in a country that threaten to spill over like a domino

effect and bring world wide chaos. And civilization destruction.

We too as a nation have written in our constitution that we have the

right to bear arms. The USA was form on a Christian value and the

right to bear arms; to protect our freedom from religious

persecution and freedom of expression of speech. And to not be

government mandated.

It is the USA that gives the most aid to the world economies in

food, medicine, products and peace workers. We send personnel to

other countries to help other societies get on their feet or help

lesson the war threats to them. Or teach them to help themselves.

Care for their ill and dying. Putting our rescue workers and

medical personnel at risk in sick and war torn destitute areas of

the world. That spends time teaching others how to plant seeds for

food and educate them in the importance's of getting and receiving

medical care. We stand with our world neighbors and help them with

their economies and show them the way. Most of the time we are asked

99% of the time to get involved. We don't want to take over other

countries or societies to mimic the USA, we want them to be able to

stand on their own two feet and prosper for themselves. It is often

other governments with their own internal turmoil or politician

dictatorship that oppress their people and cause grief to other

countries. Especially their neighbors. Again. It all spills out

like a domino effect.

In the meantime, the USA opens its doors to the entire world for

higher education, college, research, medical school, business and

lawyers. So, that these students can go back to their countries and

make them better. In the meantime we are hated - HATED - for what,

what we have, for what we have created - for what we have that they

don't - for a freer democracy and the right to choose. Others want

what we have and ask corporations to come to their countries to help

develop them there. From businesses and retail, fast food like

McDonalds and cell phones. They want the infrastructure and the

electronics we give it to them - it is part of our humanitarian

responsibilities. And for those USA companies that go to less

economic countries to make their products - its because the business

bottom line of getting factory work, boring repetious work, mundane

work all that the American refuses to do because they feel it is

beneath them. To others the work is a gold mine for them and

opportunities for their own growth and development.

The president's job is to hold the USA financially fiscal and to

protect it from terror and war. It is each State's responsibility

to run their State government and meet its own social needs. If we

all go back to civic 101 that we were all taught in 8th grade, one

would remember it starts in our own neighborhoods of how we help

each other and run our communities. From there it goes to

districts, then regions then counties and so forth for each State.

When FDR during the second war started a program called Social

Security, it was not drawn up to be an entitled hand out to every

one nor was Medicare created for the same thing. And yes, the

President is correct to try and keep as much money as each

individual earns in their own pocket. Including social security and

private health insurance.

We could have a higher minimum wage but then let's count how many

companies will go out of business because they can't afford to pay

their employees or give their employees any benefits. Business does

have a bottom line to survive and the stock market has the same.

Our country might be having difficulty switching from an industrial

country to a service one but, industry will need to stay to operate

our infrastructures and all those tools we need that we take for

granted everyday, like telephones, computers, electricity, healthly

sewage treatment centers, automobiles, roads, harvesting of food and

processing it. And, the entertainment industry. Never mind the

importance of insurance and medical necessities and their

infrastructure. What about are right and duty to take our education

seriously, applying ourselves in basic skills of reading writing,

math and science and be pro active in attitude in taking

responsibility and pride to be employable and responsible for

ourselves.

And here's a thought - all those Americans that pride themselves on

their higher education that often was subsides by the government

(the professional student comes to mind that spend thier time in

continues studies for self interest) that are unemployable because

they think they are above bagging groceries - need an attitude

adjustment.

The list can go on and on. As Americans, we are quick to complain

but in reality, we are spoiled and our expectations of others for

our own comfort is over the top.

Let's let President Bush do his job and as Americans stand behind

our president and our country because we are proud Americans and we

are all united as the United States of America. And, let's stand up

and support our soldiers who are doing our job as a nation for the

safety of us but for others freedom and democracy.

If we have democracy around the world then we will have peace. The

challenge is – will humans as a species allow that to happen or will

we continue to destroy each other for our own gain, our own

territorial rights, our own greed.

King Arthur and the Round Table was created for a reason.

I also agree this is:

(My first and final non-astrological political commentary.)

Debra

..

November 4, 2004

Therese and Anne,

-

" Therese Hamilton " <eastwest

Wednesday, November 03, 2004 4:38 PM

Re: American Election

>

> Yes, Chris, please do post the article! It might help to throw some light

> on western return charts and why the standard interpretations didn't seem

> to work.

>

> It surprises me that the Vedic system isn't more standardized, as we are

> often led to believe.

This seems to be a misconception you have. There are many branches and

sub-branches of Jyotish. And just like you can't get two western

astrologers to agree on everything, neither can you get two Jyotishis to

agree. Sure, most Vedic astrologers like to quote the classic texts of

Parashara, etc. but those are not at all complete texts and nowhere do they

tell you how to interpret a chart. They are at best simple listings of

postulates as they pertain to houses, planets, dashas, etc. But they never

tell you have to put it all together. That's why most people who start on

Vedic astrologer often get lost, or go down blind alleys that only lead to

obscure and complicated techniques that don't work clearly. I see this

happening with lots of people, especially here in North America. They know

all kinds of weird and complex stuff but they cant' read a chart. Not to

say that I know what I'm doing either, but all that extra brain work often

doesn't yield any more results.

I know that System Approach has its own rules,

> however, but Thor T. went on record months ago for Kerry.

>

> I don't believe the vote tallies, by the way. I think there was some

> 'fixin' involved, but then that's what many of us expected to happen

> anyway. There was so much 'black box' voting in this election, and no way

> to trace or verify those votes.

With this gang, anything is possible. But those exit polls that showed

Kerry leading were inaccurate and were misused. Exit polls are not

representative since they poll people are various times in the day. Who

says people voting in the morning are representative of the electorate?

They are not meant to measure support but only to measure why people are

voting in the way they are.

Here's the article that appeared in the Express Star Teller in mid October.

Nothing fancy here. I think I overstated the risk of election protests and

confusion. No doubt that negative energy will be manifested elsewhere

shortly.

__________________________

_________________

The Power of Saturn: The Re-election of George W. Bush

On November 2, Americans will go to the polls and re-elect President Bush.

Perhaps it is fitting that an adminstration that has sowed such discord

domestically and internationally should be returned to office by the power

of the Great Malefic, Saturn. As apparently paradoxical as it first seems,

Saturn is the planetary energy that Bush has successfully harnessed in his

rise to power. While benefic Jupiter does play a role his November drama, it

will be as a bit part.

Saturn has been an extremely positive force in Bush's life. His rise to

political fame occurred during the Saturn dasha which began in 1987. During

this time, he managed oil companies, bought a professional sports franchise,

became governor of the state of Texas in 1994 despite having no political

experience, and then became President.

Looking at Bush's chart (July 6 1946 7.26 am EDT New Haven, CT), we can see

some of the sources of Saturn's power. It is well-placed in the first house

with benefics Mercury and Venus. Equally important is the excellent

condition of the Moon, Saturn's dispositor. Although often overlooked,

dispositors often hold the key to understanding the strength of a planet.

Moon is closely conjunct benefic Jupiter in the 3rd house of courage and

action. This creates a personality that is decisive and determined and is

not easily swayed by opposition. Additionally, Saturn is placed in the

nakshatra of Pushya which is Saturn itself rules. This gives Saturn extra

strength, and further reinforces the favourable influences upon it already

enumerated.

A further clue to the heights that Saturn carried him can be seen in his

D-10 dashamsha chart representing power and status. Saturn is placed in the

powerful 10th house, one of the very best placements one can have for career

success. But Saturn is not without difficulties here since it is debilitated

in Aries and conjunct Ketu. Ketu is usually a negative influence on career

although in Bush's chart it may perhaps better be seen as describing the way

he has cemented his achievements: surprisingly, suddenly, and with strong

opposition. The debilitation in Aries is not really a problem for his Saturn

either, since its ruler Mars is exalted and angular and conjunct benefic

Jupiter. This forms a superstrong Neecha Banga Raja Yoga for Saturn. As

always, dispositors tell the tale of a planet's fundamental strength.

At the time of the election, Bush will still be running Saturn-Jupiter

dasha. The Jupiter subperiod has not been without significant problems for

him. He has begun a war that has proven to be far more costly in terms of

resouces and lives than expected. His unilateral, neo-imperialist policies

have been met with stern criticism from all around the world. In the rashi

chart, the potential problem with Jupiter can be seen through its rulership

of the malefic 6th house of conflict conjunct the lagnesh Moon in the 3rd.

Further, Jupiter is compromised in the D10 chart. Although it is angular,

conjunct an exalted planet Mars, and aspects the lagna, all factors which

confer strength, it is debilitated in Capricorn. Further, its dispositor

Saturn is also debilitated. On balance, then, this is definitely a weaker

planet than his Saturn, although it is definitely not without power.

John Kerry: Mercury on Unstable Ground

The Democratic Party challenger John Kerry (Dec 11 1943 8.03 am MWT Denver,

Colorado) also has a very strong chart for political success, as one would

expect for a senator. 10th lord Sun rises in Scorpio, and lagnesh Mars

aspects the lagna and that all-important Sun while conjunct the exalted

Moon. It's a terrific chart for career success. Kerry is currently running

Mercury-Mercury dasha which began in 2003. As the 11th lord of gains,

Mercury has considerable strength in the 2nd house of status and wealth.

Kerry is indeed a very rich man, although primarily this is primarily due to

his wife's inherited fortune.

Mercury is aspected by its dispositor Jupiter, which is placed in the 10th

house -- an excellent influence. However, Mercury is in the nakshatra of

Mula which is ruled by Ketu, a not-so-good energy to have for a politician.

Moreover, Ketu is disposited by Saturn, but here Saturn is not like Bush's

Saturn. It is placed in the 8th house in the first sandhi degree and

therefore perhaps a little weak, and also retrograde. While this weakness of

Saturn doesn't translate fully back up the energy chain, as it were, through

Ketu and then Mercury, it does create a somewhat shakier foundation for

Mercury. And since Kerry is running both Mercury's mahadasha and antardasha,

its energies are the chief source of his karma at this time.

Turning to Kerry's D10 chart, we can see further potential sources of

weakness in his Mercury. It is not ruling either of the two important

houses, the 1st and the 10th. It is also not aspecting either of those key

houses. In fact, it is not aspected by another planet and so has to rely on

itself for its strength. While that is considerable as seen in the rashi

chart, I believe it does not equal the strength in Bush's chart. While his

rashi chart is theoretically stronger than Bush's, he is running the wrong

dasha to win the presidency. If perhaps his dasha sequence had him running

his Sun or Mars dasha at this time, a different outcome would have been

possible.

Transits on Election Night

The transit picture on election night November 2 confirms this analysis. In

Kerry's chart, Jupiter (14 Virgo) is well-placed in his 11th of gains, as is

Venus (12 Virgo). Significantly, neither these benefics aspect his dasha

lord Mercury. A more troubling element to Jupiter's transit placement is

that it will receive the exact 9th house trine aspect of his natal Ketu.

This is not conducive to gains, and perhaps better represents missed

opportunities.

Saturn (3 Cancer) is indifferently placed in the 9th house, and Mercury (3

Ssorpio) is well placed in the first house possibly underlining the high

profile Kerry will enjoy in the election media coverage, win or lose. The

only planet that aspects dasha lord Mercury is Rahu (8 Aries). Rahu is

appropriately placed in the 6th house of competitions, just what one would

expect for an election contest. Rahu doesn't contain significant winning

energy, however, since it is placed in the 9th house natally, which is the

12th from the 10th, symbolizing loss of status.

In Bush's chart, it is the power of Saturn that will put him over the top,

although likely not without incident or opposition. This is because transit

Saturn (3 Cancer) will have a double barrelled effect: it will be conjoining

its natal position in Bush's chart and it will have its retrograde station

less than one week after the election. This almost stationary Saturn will be

imbued with incredible power that will aid Bush in his quest for the top

job. All of those favourable attributes of Bush's natal Saturn, therefore,

will come back to him by virtue of this fortuitous transit. In addition,

transit Jupiter (14 Virgo) will be nicely situated in the 3rd house very

close to the equal house cusp, and hence it will favourably effect both his

efforts and their results, since Jupiter aspects the 11th house of gains.

Transit Rahu will be placed in the 10th house of power. This is appropriate

use of Rahu's grasping, materialistic energy in any event, and in this case,

it brings Rahu's natal influences to bear as well: Rahu is placed in Bush's

11th of gains. This Rahu will therefore bring gains (11th) to his career

(10th).

As I have mentioned on my website, however, Bush's win will likely not be

without controversy. There is a strong possibility of official challenges of

the results from the Democrats, and may include popular protest and rioting.

This is because both of the planets that will bring Bush victory also have a

darker side. Saturn, for all its strength in his chart, still rules the

malefic 8th house of scandals and conspiracies. While it doubtlessly brings

great political strength with it, its supercharged state from its station

and natal return transit will likely boil over for Bush so that these

unfortunate 8th house manifestations may come out around election time.

Jupiter also may be a double-edged sword. As ruler of the 6th of conflict

and competitions, it will help Bush win the election. However, its election

day position in the 3rd house is problematic owing to its close conjunction

to natal Neptune (12 Virgo). Neptune rules deceit, subterfuge, and

confusion, and having antardasha lord Jupiter transit its position shortly

before the election may release these malefic energies.

Whatever the extent of popular protest and political skullduggery, Bush will

retain his hold on power and will be sworn in to his second term as

president of the United States on January 20, 2005.

__________________________

____________________

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.714 / Virus Database: 470 - Release 7/2/04

November 4, 2004

Christopher Kevill wrote:

>

> Here's the article that appeared in the Express Star Teller in mid

> October.

Hi Chris,

Congrats on your correct call for Bush and an excellent article as well.

Did you predict the election on these items alone (as mentioned in the

article) or did you give weight to additional factors outside the range

of traditional Jyotish?

Congrats as well to all others who predicted Bush--including I think Ron

Day and Cynthia Novak if I am remembering right.

Best,

Steve

November 4, 2004

Dear Chris,

Thank you for this interesting interpretations! I will save them on my hard

disk!

Anne

-

Christopher Kevill

Thursday, November 04, 2004 1:53 AM