Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 At 09:09 PM 10/17/04 -0700, Juan wrote: > >If this is the case. [uncertain birth times] How can anyone hang their hat on the conviction that Kerry will win the Election? Juan, If a prediction fails, it's due to one of three reasons: (1) The birth data is wrong (2) The technique is bogus (3) The astrologer's skill wasn't up to properly using the technique If a prediction is correct, it's due to: (1) The birth time is correct (2) The technique is valid (3) The skill of the astrologer matches the technique As astrologers all we can do is work with the tools we have and 'best chance' birth data. >I puroused your website(nice set-up) and looked over the charts you are using for Kerry and Edwards.... gotta tell you.... As a siderealist who utilizes the Fagan/Stahl/Firebrace/Allen/Blackwell school of calculation I am looking at very different " pictures/charts " ..... How so?? The ayanamsa makes no difference at all. The relation of planets to the angles is the same with any ayanamsa. The only difference would be visual: setting the charts up with the MC as cusp of 10th will make the chart look different than setting it up by the equal house method. But the aspects and planetary relationship to the angles would be exactly the same. > Both of us at one time thought the scales balanced favorably for Dubya.... I don't every recall ever thinking that. I was undecided until I studied all the return charts. Right now I can't find the printouts I made of everyone's prediction on this site. But I thought I recalled that you saw a Kerry win. >Dubya's lunar return prior to the election cast for Washington D.C. shows Pluto at the MC. How does that manifest? hmmmm If symbolism holds, Pluto forces a new beginning. >...If Kerry's natal data is correct(Dec 11, 1943 and corrected to Washington @ 9:10 am ewt)... I don't re-locate the natal chart. The person was born where he was born. But a return chart can be re-located. That's my current theory anyway. >>View Kerry's Lunar return prior to election cast for Washington and then Progress the angles to election day. As I've said often on this list, I don't progress lunar returns. I leave that up to the die-hard western siderealists. Kerry's election lunar return is a positive chart. If he's not elected, then it would mean (a) His birth data is wrong or (b) The traditional sidereal technique of reading lunars needs to be tweaked or (3) You can't tell much from a lunar return unless you progress it. I get the impression, Juan, that you are looking for an argument with anyone willing to dual with you. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 I get the impression, Juan, that you are looking for an argument with anyone willing to dual with you. Therese Last things first..... Your impression is your impression... As for me, I'm not looking for arguments or anyone to dual with... In my studies I have developed tenets which I find to be constructive and effective. What I express is intended to be constructive... There have been occasions when I have expressed myself with words which I regret using. The written word and the conversational word are often understood differently. If you feel there is an " edge " to my narrative it may be that on many perspectives we differ... In this format without conversational dialog communication can be difficult. It may be a perspective of balance? I appreciate you confronting me with your thoughts and feelings. It is in that spirit that I may sound confrontational to you and others. I've got Chiron rising(birthplace). When I read many of your opinions of Fagan and Bradley I feel them denigrated instead of appreciated... Does that mean you do not appreciate them? No, but sometimes I feel that way..... The fact that you do not progress returns is your option and that opinion is shared by many. My thoughts may provide a different perspective but they are not intended for argument. My energy is focused simply to advocate looking at the potential of charting. This requires studying and working within viable parameters. If I write something contrary to your stated position(s) it is not intended as a personal attack, simply a voice of a differing opinion. I respect for you and everyone's right to an opinion, however my tolerance for righteousness or arrogance is minimal. Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote: At 09:09 PM 10/17/04 -0700, Juan wrote: > >If this is the case. [uncertain birth times] How can anyone hang their hat on the conviction that Kerry will win the Election? Juan, If a prediction fails, it's due to one of three reasons: (1) The birth data is wrong (2) The technique is bogus (3) The astrologer's skill wasn't up to properly using the technique If a prediction is correct, it's due to: (1) The birth time is correct (2) The technique is valid (3) The skill of the astrologer matches the technique As astrologers all we can do is work with the tools we have and 'best chance' birth data. I realize that. The reason for expressing my thought was to express my perspective that all charting must begin with viable natal data. That care should be taken... and keep in the back of one's mind that we work with variables. >I perused your website(nice set-up) and looked over the charts you are using for Kerry and Edwards.... gotta tell you.... As a siderealist who utilizes the Fagan/Stahl/Firebrace/Allen/Blackwell school of calculation I am looking at very different " pictures/charts " ..... How so?? The ayanamsa makes no difference at all. The relation of planets to the angles is the same with any ayanamsa. The only difference would be visual: setting the charts up with the MC as cusp of 10th will make the chart look different than setting it up by the equal house method. But the aspects and planetary relationship to the angles would be exactly the same. Yes the aspects within the planets remain the same... This is true if it were calculated in the tropical zodiac as well. FYI: When the CapSolar for 2005 is cast in the Krishnamurti/Equal house process it is radically different to a CapSolar cast with the Fagan/Bradley/Campanus and no way do the planetary aspects to the angles remain the same. > Both of us at one time thought the scales balanced favorably for Dubya.... I don't every recall ever thinking that. I was undecided until I studied all the return charts. Right now I can't find the printouts I made of everyone's prediction on this site. But I thought I recalled that you saw a Kerry win. My error... I've been wrestling with Kerry winning... logic directs me towards Kerry however Dubya's dynamic is full of surprises... At one time I was leaning towards Dubya... The chaos of our political system needs work and I digress... >Dubya's lunar return prior to the election cast for Washington D.C. shows Pluto at the MC. How does that manifest? hmmmm If symbolism holds, Pluto forces a new beginning. >...If Kerry's natal data is correct(Dec 11, 1943 and corrected to Washington @ 9:10 am ewt)... I don't re-locate the natal chart. The person was born where he was born. But a return chart can be re-located. That's my current theory anyway. Jim Lewis.. and his perspective of Astro-Cartography is one I embrace... When we move to a new location our natal " picture " operates within this new environment. We retain our natal to our birthplace always, however when we move and reside elseware, we embrace an added dimension to our natal scheme. >>View Kerry's Lunar return prior to election cast for Washington and then Progress the angles to election day. As I've said often on this list, I don't progress lunar returns. I leave that up to the die-hard western siderealists. Die-hard western sideralists? Therese.... you don't have to repeat yourself unless you wish two. Kerry's election lunar return is a positive chart. If he's not elected, then it would mean (a) His birth data is wrong or (b) The traditional sidereal technique of reading lunars needs to be tweaked or (3) You can't tell much from a lunar return unless you progress it. I'm sure additional perspectives exist... I get the impression, Juan, that you are looking for an argument with anyone willing to dual with you. Therese Have you looked at Kerry's Solar Return for Dec. 11 2004? Juan " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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