San Francisco Fire & Quake (Response)

[Guest guest]

[TH] The only other way you'll see the fire in this chart is the

quincunx

of Mars to the Desc. And perhaps the trine of Pluto to the same

angle, plus

the quincunx of the Moon's South Node--which is said in India to be

of the

nature of Mars. The quincunx is also called an aspect of Mars.

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[MQ] Although I have not studied Jyotish as extensively as you have,

Therese, I thought that Mars made the 8th house aspect/quincunx and

other planets did not, or at least not at any level like the strength

of Mars 8th??? I can understand the quincunx perhaps having an 8th

house flavor in that context with Aries as 1st house, Scorpio 8th,

both Mars-ruled. But I think I might hesitate to assign a planetary

quality to an aspect otherwise. Just my own speculation here.

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[TH] All perfect symbolism, I'd say. The one major argument against

the

chart is that the angular Moon-Mars and Jupiter-Saturn don't aspect

the

quake chart in a significant way, that is, they don't make major hard

aspects to the angles.

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[MQ] I don't think it's particularly necessary for an ingress

configuration to aspect the event chart angles, or vice versa, as the

event comes after the ingress, semantically speaking. What I think is

important is that the ingress' angular planets *describe* the event

in appropriate planetary symbolism. Many different combinations can

do this. The same applies to quotidian angles: do the tightly angular

planets *describe* the event? Certainly the F-B CapSolar Q1

combination of Q1 Moon (the people, the emotions), Mars (fire,

adrenaline rush), Pluto (drastic, shock) with transit Saturn

(crushing, loss) describe the event, or perhaps its effects on the

people, apart from the Uranus-Neptune-Mercury T-square.

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[TH] I'd like to suggest at this point that for the time being we

eliminate

the Caplunar (and any other lunar chart) in the interests of not

driving

ourselves and anyone else who is reading these posts crazy with too

much

complexity. The lunar charts can be another study altogether so the

lunar

symbolism can be kept clear. So I'll quickly comment on the Caplunar

charts, and I hope we can drop them for the time being.

-----------------

[MQ] As I said in my previous post, I feel that the lunar ingresses

are important tools as well as the solar ingresses. They complement

each other. The 13 CapLunars each year help to get the narrower time

view. Following through with the other cardinal solunar ingresses can

narrow an event further. Quotidians narrow further.

 

Don't get me wrong here; I'm not saying it's a perfect set up, and

it's certainly not easy to *predict* with any of the mundane methods.

I feel the lack of predictive strength comes from the usual

siderealist penchant for debating and haggling over " techie " points

like quotidian rates and not simply using a forum for saying " Hey,

these charts point to something happening somewhere around this date.

Anyone else have any input? "

--------------

[MQ]Finally we can look at the mean quotidian Q1 progressions of the

CapSolar to the event.

 

In the K CapSolar Q1, Moon has progressed to oppose ingress Saturn;

transit Moon...opposes Q1 Moon.

 

[TH] Whether this partile contact of Moon opposite Moon (22 minute

orb) is

important or simply a fluke depends on how the Q1 Moon relates to the

transit (quake) Moon in other quake charts. Something to look for. Is

a Q1

Moon aspect to the quake Moon a significant trigger or not?

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[MQ] I would look at this the other way around -- transit/event Moon

conjoining the Q1 Moon. Different perspective. And it would certainly

be nice for the transit Moon to be a " trigger, " but I haven't seen it

so with any consistency.

---------------

[

[TH] More importantly we have the quake angles repeated in the Q1

progressed chart. That is, the significant quake MC anchored t-cross

is

angular in the Q1 chart. It's not exact: Q1 Asc is 11 Pisces with

Mercury

at 14 Pisces; Q1 Uranus at 12 Sag/Quake MC at 17 Sag, Neptune at 14

Gemini.

Close enough if only major hard aspects are used. (Conjunction,

square and

opposition) Significant IF it happens in other quake charts.

Otherwise, it

would be a fluke.

-----------------

[MQ] Again, as I said above, I don't see the necessity of the

*identical* pattern repeating. No major event is simple in its impact

on a population. While the Quake itself may be Uranus-Neptune, the

impact was certainly felt as Mars-Pluto-Saturn. With the tears that

Venus-Saturn often indicate.

------------

 

[MQ] The F-B CapSolar Q1 shows angular Moon opposing Mars, Pluto at

IC.

Bodily Moon is 2

degrees 6 minutes above the DESC; Q1 Mars is 1 degree 15 minutes

below the

ASC; Pluto is 2 degrees 29 minutes west of the IC, as measured in

Prime

Vertical longitudes.

 

[TH] A very significant looking configuration. Again, though, this

aspect

pattern doesn't connect with the quake angles. (That is, the planets

linked

to the quake MC.)

 

LST/RAMC of the Mean Q1 is 17:17:29;

Q1 Mars rises with 17:23:51;

Q1 Moon sets with 17:28:09;

Q1 Pluto crosses IC with 17:23:43.

So we have a close paran Mars-Pluto in body.

Transit Saturn rises with 17:21:25 (equates to longitude of 20 Aqu

52);

transit Pluto to IC with 17:23:14...

 

[TH] Very significant IF similar patterns happen in other Q1 quake

charts.

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[MQ] I would say rather that IF patterns with *appropriate planetary

symbolism* show in other charts.

 

In looking back over my responses in this post, I've noticed my

tendency to emphasize language/semantics, perhaps as indicators of

differing perspectives. Not surprising with my Leo Sun-Mercury

conjunction square Saturn-Uranus and a Gemini Moon, and history as an

English major and short-time high school English teacher. So I think

I'll close this with a " pet peeve " , not just for Therese, but for the

entire astrological community: planets make " conjunctions " . The verb

form is " conjoin " or " conjoins, " not " conjuncts. " Now I know all

about " common usage, " and all that, but, as I said, it's a " pet

peeve. "

 

Sidereally yours,

Matthew