Mars in Aries and Libra in 10th

[Guest guest]

NOTES ON SIDEREAL SIGNS: Part 1

 

Do Sidereal signs have meaning? For starters I excerpted some charts from

the Rodden/McDonough AstroDatabank with Mars in the 10th house square the

ascendant. Siderealists call this point a sceondary angle. Here are some

ascendants and Mars positions by sign with comments:

 

(Positions are Lahiri.)

MARS IN ARIES, ruled by Mars, exaltation of the Sun:

 

Asc 10 Cancer; Mars 15 Aries, Leo navamsa: Dancer, ballet director (Here we

have the physical expression of a Mars ruled sign combined with Leo,

creativity.)

 

Asc 12 Cancer; Mars 16 Aries, Leo navamsa: Water sports champion (Again a

physical activity combined with champion status--Leo, the king?)

 

Asc 17 Cancer; Mars 17 Aries, Virgo navamsa: Computer Programmer (This is

interesting--a Mars ruled sign combined with a Mercury navamsa. Computer

programming comes under Mars/Mercury.)

 

Asc 20 Cancer; Mars 19 Aries (conj Venus), Virgo navamsa: Writer and

educator (Again the professional activities relate to Mercury-Virgo, and

Venus pulls Mars away from the strictly physical.)

 

Asc 23 Cancer; Mars 24 Aries, Scorpio navamsa: Jockey (Here Mars in a

Mars-ruled sign and navamsa manifests as the strongly physical profession

of jockey.)

---

 

Here are some examples of Mars in 10th in the opposite sign, LIBRA, Ruler

Venus, exaltation of Saturn:

 

Asc 29Sag52; Mars 5 Libra, Scorpio navamsa: Writer and researcher on

psychic topics. (I am not sure how Scorpio would manifest here, but writing

is a cultured art form--Venus.)

 

Asc 6 Capricorn; Mars 7 Libra, Sag navamsa: Beauty Queen (Here is another

expression of Venus--Would Sag, ruled by Jupiter, indicate victory and honor?)

 

Asc 10 Capricorn; Mars 8 Libra, Sag navamsa: Mystic who worked with

herbology, physiology, nutrition (Here is the mystic or metaphysical

association with Trop Sco/Sid Libra. I don't know about Sag navamsa...)

 

Asc 8 Cap; Mars 11 Libra, Capricorn navamsa, scientifically inclined

Sidereal astrologer (Again a non-physical metaphysical occupation; Would

Cap have to do with science since the Gauquelins found Saturn to be the

planet of scientists?)

 

Asc 17 Cap; Mars 15 Libra, Aquarius navamsa: Priest (Two of the spiritual

or intuitive signs here; Aquarius is especially other-worldly.)

 

Asc 15 Cap; Mars 16 Libra, Aquarius navamsa: Astrologer (perhaps a more

metaphysical type of astrologer--no info given in ADB)

 

Asc 20 Cap; Mars 16 Libra, Aquarius navamsa: Musician and conductor (A

distinctly Venusian occupation. Music may be one expression of Aquarius.)

 

I think we can see some different expressions of Mars here which can be

related to the sign and sometimes the navamsa sign of Mars. Mars probably

affects the personality of these people, but the fact that Mars is in a

particular sign seems also to have its own meaning.

 

There is a difference between the more physical expression of Aries and

more spiritual or metaphysical activities in Libra. For a complete picture,

of course, we need to see the entire horoscope, especially any other

planets that might be in the 10th house conjunct Mars. There are many more

charts in ADB to explore. I'm only trying to give a suggestion here that

signs do have particular tones that can be utilized in the interpretation

of horoscopes.

 

This doesn't say anything about the personalities of these people except

that the chosen life work would point to a certain type of mental/emotional

makeup.

 

Therese

[Guest guest]

Hi Therese

 

I am enjoying reading your ideas. Thanks for putting up the ADB research.

May I ask how representative these cases are from the search?

 

I think the implications of your/Eshelman's thesis are potentially huge.

I'm not sure how I feel about it. I have often treated the signs as the

poor man of the horoscope, throwing them in for a bit of colour at the end,

because my sense was they were usually over-used as fudge factors. I would

think the best two signs to test the overlay theory would be Pisces and

Aries. There really shouldn't be a lot in common there at all, and yet all

too often, sign placements can be overwhelmed by so many other more

important factors in the chart.

 

cheers,

Chris

 

ps what is your rationale for using Mars in the 10th here?

I didnt quite catch it. Why not just run a search for

astrologers/metaphysicians for Mars in Libra (crypto-Scorpio) comparing

those raw totals with other signs? And repeat for when Mars is the 10th

house -- however defined.

 

-

" Therese Hamilton " <eastwest

 

Saturday, September 20, 2003 8:32 PM

Mars in Aries and Libra in 10th

 

 

> NOTES ON SIDEREAL SIGNS: Part 1

>

> Do Sidereal signs have meaning? For starters I excerpted some charts from

> the Rodden/McDonough AstroDatabank with Mars in the 10th house square the

> ascendant. Siderealists call this point a sceondary angle. Here are some

> ascendants and Mars positions by sign with comments:

>

> (Positions are Lahiri.)

> MARS IN ARIES, ruled by Mars, exaltation of the Sun:

>

> Asc 10 Cancer; Mars 15 Aries, Leo navamsa: Dancer, ballet director (Here

we

> have the physical expression of a Mars ruled sign combined with Leo,

> creativity.)

>

> Asc 12 Cancer; Mars 16 Aries, Leo navamsa: Water sports champion (Again a

> physical activity combined with champion status--Leo, the king?)

>

> Asc 17 Cancer; Mars 17 Aries, Virgo navamsa: Computer Programmer (This is

> interesting--a Mars ruled sign combined with a Mercury navamsa. Computer

> programming comes under Mars/Mercury.)

>

> Asc 20 Cancer; Mars 19 Aries (conj Venus), Virgo navamsa: Writer and

> educator (Again the professional activities relate to Mercury-Virgo, and

> Venus pulls Mars away from the strictly physical.)

>

> Asc 23 Cancer; Mars 24 Aries, Scorpio navamsa: Jockey (Here Mars in a

> Mars-ruled sign and navamsa manifests as the strongly physical profession

> of jockey.)

> ---

>

> Here are some examples of Mars in 10th in the opposite sign, LIBRA, Ruler

> Venus, exaltation of Saturn:

>

> Asc 29Sag52; Mars 5 Libra, Scorpio navamsa: Writer and researcher on

> psychic topics. (I am not sure how Scorpio would manifest here, but

writing

> is a cultured art form--Venus.)

>

> Asc 6 Capricorn; Mars 7 Libra, Sag navamsa: Beauty Queen (Here is another

> expression of Venus--Would Sag, ruled by Jupiter, indicate victory and

honor?)

>

> Asc 10 Capricorn; Mars 8 Libra, Sag navamsa: Mystic who worked with

> herbology, physiology, nutrition (Here is the mystic or metaphysical

> association with Trop Sco/Sid Libra. I don't know about Sag navamsa...)

>

> Asc 8 Cap; Mars 11 Libra, Capricorn navamsa, scientifically inclined

> Sidereal astrologer (Again a non-physical metaphysical occupation; Would

> Cap have to do with science since the Gauquelins found Saturn to be the

> planet of scientists?)

>

> Asc 17 Cap; Mars 15 Libra, Aquarius navamsa: Priest (Two of the spiritual

> or intuitive signs here; Aquarius is especially other-worldly.)

>

> Asc 15 Cap; Mars 16 Libra, Aquarius navamsa: Astrologer (perhaps a more

> metaphysical type of astrologer--no info given in ADB)

>

> Asc 20 Cap; Mars 16 Libra, Aquarius navamsa: Musician and conductor (A

> distinctly Venusian occupation. Music may be one expression of Aquarius.)

>

> I think we can see some different expressions of Mars here which can be

> related to the sign and sometimes the navamsa sign of Mars. Mars probably

> affects the personality of these people, but the fact that Mars is in a

> particular sign seems also to have its own meaning.

>

> There is a difference between the more physical expression of Aries and

> more spiritual or metaphysical activities in Libra. For a complete

picture,

> of course, we need to see the entire horoscope, especially any other

> planets that might be in the 10th house conjunct Mars. There are many more

> charts in ADB to explore. I'm only trying to give a suggestion here that

> signs do have particular tones that can be utilized in the interpretation

> of horoscopes.

>

> This doesn't say anything about the personalities of these people except

> that the chosen life work would point to a certain type of

mental/emotional

> makeup.

>

> Therese

>

>

>

>

" How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " -----

>

> Post message:

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>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 12:06 PM 9/21/03 -0700, Chris wrote:

>Hi Therese

>

>I am enjoying reading your ideas. Thanks for putting up the ADB research.

>May I ask how representative these cases are from the search?

 

Hi Chris,

 

I have two more signs ready to post: Virgo and Pisces, so you will be able

to compare Pisces and Aries. How representative?! Well, ADB pulled up over

450 charts with Mars square the ascendant from 10th. Many of these charts

simply had simple IDs like " Homosexual' or " Accident Victim. " In no way can

the charts I posted be considered as 'research.' The least I need to do is

organize ALL the charts with a certain factor with at least minimum

biography notes.

 

Yes, I was indeed trying to make a point. You will find at least a few

sports people under Mars in Libra, and I suspect an astrologer or two under

Mars in Aries. I do plan to somehow set down all the relevant charts in

various categories. This is a huge job, and I should barricade myself away

for a year or so to get the work done. ADB has given us the raw data. Most

people who have ADB are just letting it all sit there.

 

>I think the implications of your/Eshelman's thesis are potentially huge.

 

Yes, you are right. I've been on this track since--I think sometime in the

80s. Since we have had the Internet, I've posted something now and then as

a 'seed' for thought. (Aries is the seed sign, and I have Jupiter, my

ascendant ruler there plus Saturn--good old Saturn makes everything really

s-l-o-w...). So I'm delighted that a few people are beginning to get the

drift of what I'm trying to say.

 

Sidereal Aries--the quiet, internal energy of Tropical Taurus--what is

still underground, not yet manifest in any big way. Someone with a

prominent sidereal Taurus/Tropical Gemini perhaps will bring these thoughts

to fruition--the emerging energy of the growth of spring.) I can hear

died-in-the-wool Western siderealists in a loud collective groan. As Juan

Oliver said, " This isn't cricket. "

 

So, siderealists, hasn't the bull been associated with fecundity the energy

of spring? How come this type of lively energy is associated with Tropical

Gemini? Sidereal astrologers swear by their signs, but I have never read

anything any sidereal astrologer has written on the Greek myths and signs

of the zodiac. They just aren't into mythology.

 

And Taurus again: The sign is supposed to rule the lower face, throat and

neck. Why is Tropical Gemini the talkative one?

 

>I'm not sure how I feel about it. I have often treated the signs as the

>poor man of the horoscope, throwing them in for a bit of colour at the end,

>because my sense was they were usually over-used as fudge factors.

 

This is true. Signs are very much overused in the psychological sense. So

much of what is written on the signs is pure drival. Yet, they do have

meaning if used correctly in a minimal way. You do need the lunar mansions

(a la India) and at least the navamsa for details, however.

 

>I would

>think the best two signs to test the overlay theory would be Pisces and

>Aries. There really shouldn't be a lot in common there at all

 

Let's see what comes up when I post sidereal Virgo/Pisces.

 

>> and yet all

>too often, sign placements can be overwhelmed by so many other more

>important factors in the chart.

 

Very true.

 

>ps what is your rationale for using Mars in the 10th here?

>I didnt quite catch it.

 

I chose Mars because it's the easiest planet (in my opinion) to see

psychological traits for. And these traits basically don't show up when

Mars is square the ascendant. Also Mars gave the best results for the

Gauquelins.

 

Next I was going to post charts with Mars conjunct the MC but not square

the ascendant.

But when I pulled up the charts of Mars conj the MC (including any with

Mars square the ascendant), the total was over 700!! I gave up on that for

the time being. See--this is such a huge job!! Fagan, Allen and all the

rest of the early siderealists never had all these 26,000 charts in ADB to

study. They drew many of their conclusions on the basis of theory only,

except for the mathematics of return charts.

 

> Why not just run a search for

>astrologers/metaphysicians for Mars in Libra (crypto-Scorpio) comparing

>those raw totals with other signs? And repeat for when Mars is the 10th

>house -- however defined.

 

Actually it would probably be better to run charts with any planet in a

defined area of Libra/Scorpio in the 10th. It wouldn't be only Mars. Yes,

the general idea is a good one.

 

Chris, I have three typed articles laying the foundation for sidereal

signs, dealing with the symbolism of the Sun and Moon, sign polarity and

the triplicities. If you like I can send these to you as attachments in

Word format, WordPerfect or....? I should take a day and get them on the

Internet....maybe stay up all night sometime and get the job done.

 

Anyhow...thanks for your interest!

 

Sincerely,

Therese