Interpreting Sidereal Signs

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At 10:13 PM 9/1/03 -0700, Juan Oliver wrote:

>

>I'm confused because as a " western " sidereal

>astrologer I use elements and triplicities to develop

>a clarity within the diversity of the sidereal

>zodiac...

 

Juan, I wasn't aware that any western sidereal (Fagan-Bradley school)

astrologer used the 'elements' in reading horoscopes. Then how do you

delineate the elements, which I call triplicities in the sidereal zodiac?

 

But what the hell is a Trigon?

 

It's the ancient Hellenistic term for triplicity, which I believe referred

to the sidereal signs. I use the term to distinguish the sidereal from the

Tropical triplicities.

 

>Please don't include " Western " Siderealists as " we

>talk about Trigons " because you may be the only one

>that I know who would... Please refer to your opinions

>in the first person as it confuses individuals who are

>learning, into thinking that you speak for all

> " Western Siderealists " .

 

I didn't mean to say that I spoke for all western siderealists. I'm sorry

if my writing style seemed to indicate this. But I don't remember reading

in any western sidereal literature (Bradley, Fagan, Eshelman, etc.) about

meanings attached to the triplicities. (Maybe I have a bad memory?) If

there are such references, please point them out. I have most of the books.

 

>This remark is intended to request consideration

>without the intention to inflame or discredit. I hope

>you will not consider my words as a personal attack as

>I do not wish to offend you.

 

No offence taken.

 

>> Sidereal Scorpio is ruled by Mars. This sign has the

>> energy of Tropical

>> Sag. You'll often find this sign prominent in mafia

>> lord charts and charts

>> of those who fight for a cause.

>

>Stuff like that floors me. Scorpio's make good Mafia

>Lords.... and those who fight for a cause....

 

There are lots of charts in the Rodden-McDonough AstroDatabase to support

this. Would you like me to post some of the data? A few years ago there

was a discussion on the ISAR list about Mafia lords and most of them had

stelliums in sidereal Scorpio. I was pointing out that this sign was

Tropical Sagittarius and the symbolism didn't fit. Scorpio is the sign of

group activity (as in team sports and armies).

 

> Sidereal Pisces is ruled by Jupiter and Neptune:

>> Theatrical, sometimes a

>> musician (exaltation of Venus, performs before

>> groups) often also fights

>> for a cause,

>

>Pisceans also fight for a cause.... Who can we leave

>out of this scenario.... Virgo's?

 

I was talking about the Cancer triplicity--Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces, and the

'fiery' energy of these signs. I can post some data if you like.

 

>Pisceans must be related to Gemini's.... being two

>sided and mutable... Are Gemini's capable of fighting

>for a cause? I imagine they would if they had Mars

>rising.

 

The symbol for Pisces is two fishes swimming in different directions.

Gemini's constellational symbol is the devoted 'twins.' Gemini has a lot to

do with children and growth. (There's a chart in ADB of a famous

professional gardner with a large stellium in Gemini. I also know a man who

loves gardening, grows everything from seed: South node, Mars, Venus, Sun

in Gemini.

 

Yes, the planets are more important than the signs, but I don't believe

that in general western siderealists give enough emphasis to how signs can

tone the planets.

 

>Understanding the energy given to us by the various

>constellations is essential but is it critical?

 

I believe that it's very helpful. And perhaps necessary for Tropical

astrologers who become interested in sidereal astrology. It helps to

distinguish the basic perception of how people experience the world. The

planets don't so this in the same way. Of course there have to be planets

in a sign or triplicity for the energy to come through.

>

>I find it confusing to explain " signs " because over

>time A Gemini has come to appear more like a Taurus.

 

??I don't understand this comment.

 

>A siderealist has to totally rebuild his/her concept

>of Gemini after being fed a healthy diet of Tropical

>Gemini and I don't like reling on a Tropical rendition

>of Cancer to explain Sidereal Gemini....

>It just ain't kosher....

 

Maybe not, but it works. It's accurate in my opinion of 30 years experience

using the sidereal zodiac.

 

>As a Sideealist I am " fixated " on the planets and the

>angles.... Undersanding the planets is big....

 

Yes, this is the western sidereal appraoch to astrology. And it's an

important approach to solar and lunar return charts.

 

>I don't think that Siderealists are simplistic but I

>do feel we are rather " fixed " in our nature.

 

Oh, I agree!! I knew Ken Bowser, Bert Fannin, the guy who died some years

ago (can't remember his name) and others in San Francisco...how long ago?

I'm not sure, but we had many 'fiery' discussions.

 

Hence, It was easy for me to think Sidereal with Uranus conjunct

>my Taurean Bull Sun.

 

Would you like to give your birth data? See, we have this concept of

'bull,' from Tropical astrology--stubborn and opininated. But...the

symbolism of the bull is related more to spring time and fertility, a more

restless energy. Closer to the Moon, actually.

 

>Therese... I enjoy most of your contributions and when

>I disagree please understand that I appreciate your

>contributions even when I disagree with them.

 

Thank you. There wouldn't be much to write about on this list if we all

agreed with each other. I know I'm not a conventional sidereal astrologer.

I also enjoy your contributions. I've thought a lot about the sidereal

signs, and try to back up what I observe in people with charts with most of

the planets in one triplicity (trigon).

 

It's nice to see some action on this list again! Could you answer

Elizabeth's second question?

 

I'm writing this at 3:00 a.m., when I'm usually sound asleep, so I hope I'm

making sense. I'm waiting for an email from India to help with a software

program.

 

Sincerely,

Therese