Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 I have another beginner's question. I was wondering about the logic behind a nonsidereal ephemeris. Can I assume that the data in these ephemerides are projected from a given point in time in order to create continuity in the various tables? And how is this squared intellectually with the actual position of the planets in the constellations? I feel like I'm missing something here. Calculating sidereally makes perfect sense to me (a non-astrologer and non-astronomer). But I just don't understand how there can be talk about the Sun entering Leo when it's actually not. What's the justification when people actually look into the skies? Or am I being dense? Jori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 You're not dense... you're just dealing with the classic question.of how does this Leo differ with that Leo.... Tropical utilizes the tilt of the earth.... The first day of Spring or the beginning of Aires occurs when the Sun appears to reach the Equater moving north towards the Tropic of Cancer. Where on the first day of Summer or Cancer the Sun appears the furthest north before it turns south... Keep in mind.... Its the tilt of the earth that causes this phenomena not the movement of the Sun... So Tropical Astrology utilizing the names given to the constellations created a zodiac corresponding to the cycle of the earths tilting action... Giving 30 degrees to each sign, tropicalists developed a mathmatical 360 degree formula. Their ephemeris is a mathmatical scenaio which begins when the Sun(appearing to move from the southern latitudes) reaches 0 degrees North Latitude and 0 degrees of North Declination. Siderealists and there are a number of different schools of Sidereal Astrology... figure at least a dozen of them... They attempt to determine where in the sky the beginning of the constellation Aires begins and Pisces ends..... From this point a mathmatical formula is generated to divide the period of time from one Aires point to the next Aires point. Just like the Tropicalists do... What is confusing is that the tropicalists never calculate their zodiac based on the actual constellations.... This does not make their system " wrong " .... It is what it is.... a mathmatical formula which parallels a cyclical pattern that lasts approximately 1 year.... Just like the Siderealists do..... So... Have I totally confused you? I think not..... Looked at your chart....You enjoy very impressive elements... energies... Thanks for sharing.....You mentioned that you are in Corsica.... Can you supply your actual longititude and latitude to the minute? I was curious to see how close your Moon and Venus would be to the MC in your relocated chart.... Jori Walker <jorilynn wrote: I have another beginner's question. I was wondering about the logic behind a nonsidereal ephemeris. Can I assume that the data in these ephemerides are projected from a given point in time in order to create continuity in the various tables? And how is this squared intellectually with the actual position of the planets in the constellations? I feel like I'm missing something here. Calculating sidereally makes perfect sense to me (a non-astrologer and non-astronomer). But I just don't understand how there can be talk about the Sun entering Leo when it's actually not. What's the justification when people actually look into the skies? Or am I being dense? Jori " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Hi Juan, Thanks for your comprehensive reply. Not having any experiential basis for judging these two systems, I'm flying on gut reaction. I tend to gravitate towards systems that are less abstract rather than more...if you can even talk about it like this in this case...On what basis can the beginning and ending of a constellation be determined (serious question)? As for my exact position on earth, I'm in a largish village (Calenzana) outside a small town (Calvi). The nearest I can come is the location of Calvi, which is 42.34N by 8.44E. Do you mind telling me why you were wondering about the Moon and Venus? Do they have special role to play in a relocated chart? (which, by the way, is something else I'd be interested in hearing about...so much to discover!!!) My question about Leo still remains, however---is the Sun entering Leo sidereally tomorrow, or is it still working on Cancer? Thanks again, Jori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Jori... ... You got great questions... I've got just enough time right now to address the easy ones.... 1) Tomorrow the Sun remains in Cancer... It will be at about 5 degrees Cancer There will always be about 25 degrees difference between Sidereal and Tropical charts(calculations)... I sense by your e-mail that you didn't understand what I wrote... with regards to how one percieves the process utilized to construct a sidereal ephemeris and the tropical ephemeris.... I don't know if I can do this without actually having verbal dialogue.... I'm gonna jump to your question as to how one considers the beginning point of a constellation....It begins by visually looking in the sky and locating the constellations... Here's where it gets tricky and why there are a dozen or so different Sidereal schools thinking. Each believeing that they have determined the demarcation lines(starting and end points) for the signs. 2) I did your chart to Calvi.... and was surprised to see that your Moon & Venus were in the seventh house when I was expecting them to be in the 9th or 10th houses. Your artwork is expressive with fine lines... elegant and would show well in professional office settings....Your art is a labor of love with those you collaborate with..... Have you read the sidereal.zip file available in the files section? This place you live though beautiful can be challenging... You are a very hard worker with others. sometimes your philisophical " truths " get you into trouble with your partners... gotta run.... ask some more questions... maybe I'll get better at answering them. Jivio PS: I'm may confuse you more... however, you will need to understand some day(and it might as well be today) that there are tropical positions, sidereal positions and astronomical positions of planets... use your favorite search engine to try and locate info on what I mean. Jori Walker <jorilynn wrote: Hi Juan, Thanks for your comprehensive reply. Not having any experiential basis for judging these two systems, I'm flying on gut reaction. I tend to gravitate towards systems that are less abstract rather than more...if you can even talk about it like this in this case...On what basis can the beginning and ending of a constellation be determined (serious question)? As for my exact position on earth, I'm in a largish village (Calenzana) outside a small town (Calvi). The nearest I can come is the location of Calvi, which is 42.34N by 8.44E. Do you mind telling me why you were wondering about the Moon and Venus? Do they have special role to play in a relocated chart? (which, by the way, is something else I'd be interested in hearing about...so much to discover!!!) My question about Leo still remains, however---is the Sun entering Leo sidereally tomorrow, or is it still working on Cancer? Thanks again, Jori " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Hi Jivio, I loved reading your post, filled with explanations of degrees and constellations and then sprinkled with comments on my artwork (which does in fact tend to be very fine, as in silk weaving and pen and ink drawings---how did you do that?). I'm interested now in this relocation chart stuff. I'll have to go search for information and find out how it works. In my natal chart, my Moon and Venus are in my 11th house. Now I'm wondering what it means to have them in my 7th house in Calvi (I hope you noticed that I'm not asking you for more taxing explanations!). The place I live is indeed both beautiful and extremely challenging--I guess you read about the fire that almost consumed our house last Thursday. This is typical for Corsica. So I'm beginning to understand that the sidereal position of a planet is again different from its astronomical position. My poor Virgo-saturated Midheaven is straining to understand where " reality " is in all this... I'll take a trip to the list web site today and print out some documents so I can start to understand this thing... Thanks! Jori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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