Guest guest Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Therese! Thank you very much for your explanation! You asked me about my contribution some time ago. You did not understand. I only underlined the value of the local MC and Ascendant for the cities involved, in connection with the time of the earthquack. I studied these earthquacks -you mentioned here- before comparing with the local MC and Asc via the Length of the city, converted first in time for the necessary correction. I should admit, that I calculated first in the mode Fagan Allen. Now I am trying out the Krishnamurti ayamsa, with the mode Meridian houses and the TransNeptuner.These are called TransNeptuner in the 20ieth years;before the Pluto discovery in 1930. Kind regards, Anny -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Verzonden: dinsdag 27 januari 2004 21:02 Aan: Onderwerp: Digest Number 704 There are 4 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Ingress Charts: Note for " Lurkers " Therese Hamilton <eastwest 2. Similar Angles in Quake Charts/Ingresses Therese Hamilton <eastwest 3. Bradley's Jupiter/Rainfall/Ayanamsa " mquellas " <mquellas 4. San Francisco Fire & Quake (Response yet again) " mquellas " <mquellas ______________________ ______________________ Message: 1 Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:36:49 -0800 Therese Hamilton <eastwest Ingress Charts: Note for Lurkers Lurking List Members, Since it took me a long time to understand the importance of ingress charts, I thought I'd mention their importance here in case some lurkers don't understand what all this earthquake talk is about. An ingress is the moment the Sun or Moon enters a sign of the zodiac. The timing will be different for each zodiac: Tropical, Fagan-Bradley, Lahiri,or whatever zodiac you're using. If the timing is different for each zodiac, then the angles of the chart will also be different. The planets near an angle or aspecting an angle (Asc-Dec/Mc-IC) are generally thought to be more important than planets that are in other positions. Siderealists hold the angles to be of supreme importance. Tropical astrologers don't put as much emphasis on the angles. So...if some kind of consistency can be found amoung charts of one kind (as earthquake charts), then that is evidence that there *IS* indeed a zodiac,and it's not a product of the collective astrological imagination. Tracing a zodiac via ingresses is of supreme importance to astrologers. Donald Bradley claimed to isolate the cardinal ingresses via his rainfall research, but there are two problems with this research: (1) We've never had the raw data and Bradley's exact techniques to study. However, western sidereal astrologers generally swear by Bradley's research. (2) Bradley's studies have never been replicated. They probably never can be because there are questions about exactly what he did. To replicate research, you need to use the exact same type of data and the exact same techniques. No scientist would accept a single study by one individual as evidence for anything. A scientist might say, " This is one possible piece of the puzzle,but certainly not the whole puzzle. " So ingress research is still wide open to investigation by astrologers. We are doing some preliminary exploration of ingress charts on this list. Sincerely, Therese ------------------ Message: 2 Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:48:08 -0800 Therese Hamilton <eastwest Similar Angles in Quake Charts/Ingresses INGRESS/QUAKE MATCHING ANGLES/PLANETS Supposing we could predict an earthquake on the basis of the Moon and matching angles and planets in the ingress and quake charts? Maybe it's only coincidence, but taking Matthew's charts for Kobe and San Francisco and adjusting the values to Krishnamurti (that is plus 59 minutes from F-B), here's what we have so far: (The angles are starred.) READ ACROSS-----> SAN FRANCISCO (Mutable angles/squares and oppositions) The Quake Sol Ingress Sol Ingress Q1 Mean Prog ------------- Aries ---------Capricorn----------------- MC 18 Sg* Ur 16 Sg Me 8.5 Sg Me 7 Sg} Ur 16 Sg Me 16 Pi} Ur 12 Sg Ur 13 Sg} Me 15 Pi *IC 15 Pi} *IC 07 Pi *As 12 Pi Ne 15.5 Ge Ne 15 Ge Ne 16 Ge Ne 16 Ge KOBE, JAPAN (Parashara's Light figures)(Cardinal angles/planets) The Quake Sol Ingress Lunar Ingress(MQ) --------------Capricorn-------Cancer----------- MC 0 35 Li* *As 5 Li Ne 29.5 Sg Ne 29 Sg Ne 29 Sg Su 02.5 Cp Su 00.0 Cp Su 2.5 Cp Ur 03 Cp Ur 02.5 Cp Ur 03 Cp Mo 02 43 Cn *As 02 11 Cn Mo 0.0 Cn With the San Francisco quake, angles in the closest cardinal ingress (Aries) are closer to the quake chart than the Capricorn ingress,but we do have a Mercury/Uranus angular aspect in the CapSolar as in the quake and Aries Ingress charts. Kobe: This is the first time I've ever heard of a CanLunar, but never mind. It works out anyway...at least for Kobe. Are these similar angles only a coincidence? Maybe. Let's look at some more charts. Therese ------------------------------- Message: 3 Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:18:43 -0000 " mquellas " <mquellas Bradley's Jupiter/Rainfall/Ayanamsa The following selection is taken from the " Ayanamsa " file in Sidereal.zip. It, in turn, is drawn from Garth Allen, aka Don Bradley, writing in the August 1964 American Astrology Magazine. In this, Bradley is talking about the occurance of Jupiter on angles of the F-B Sidereal CapLunar Ingress and its correlation with maximum or above average rainfall. I have posted a .jpg of the Jupiter graph in the file section. The best copy I could find in my own records is a hand tracing done many years ago by Jim Eshelman. As Bradley points out, the chart is based on Jupiter positions in 49,576 instances observed and recorded over decades. It is pretty straight-forward in showing Jupiter's angular preference on SVP- based CapLunar Ingress charts. The preference would not show for an ayanamsa about one degree away. A lunar one degree difference would create an ingress midheaven about 30 degrees different " Of course, we could have selected, say 25 of the 100 worst-tornado charts, based on the list of historic twisters given in the World Almanac, and confidently " demonstrated " the efficacy of the Spica or hypsomatic fiducials. Dido, for train wrecks or coal-mine disasters. But this would not be science--it would be a defending of a mental commitment or professional posture. To save face is usually to sacrifice facts. The illustration herewith is the upshot of it all, the only single " proof " which tells the ayanamsa story without any ifs or buts in the telling. A few years ago, a team of scientists at a major university undertook to look into " unorthodox " means of weather forecasting and includedin their mass-data anaylses certain claims of what we call astrometeorology. These men are our personal friends and we have been 'au courant' of their work all along. We finally prevailed sufficiently on their curiosity that they experimented with the Jupiter-rainfall correlation we reported on in the pages of " Your Powwow Corner " back in 1957. We found, you will recall,a mathematically abnormal tendency for Jupiter to be on an angle at the moment of the Caplunar ingresses covering dates and places of record-breaking amounts of rain. In view of professional and institutional considerations, we are requested to divulge only a bare minimum of information about this project. Permission to publish an adaptation of one of the diagrams, and tell its content, however, has been cordially granted, in the mutual hope that it will nip in the bud this growing threat of a " controversy " over the synetic fiducial. The diagram simply consists of the quadrant frequency of Jupiter's distribution at the moments of the synetic lunar ingresses of Capricornus preceding th twelve dates over the past century on which maximum 24-hour downpours of precipitation were recorded at every functioning weather-observing station in the continental USA The grand total of events amounts to--hold your breath--fully 49,576 items in all. The complete information as to date,place and amount for each of 49,576 separte record entreis has been officially published y the U.S. Weather Bureau, so there can have been no " doctoring " of the raw data to yield the result that can be seen in the illustration--and marveled at. GRAPH: On left from bottom to top, standard deviations from -25 to 0 to +25. On bottom, Quadrants superposed Measuring Eastward from Midheaven 0 to 90 (to 0) degrees. Angular Cusps using SYNETIC Ayanamsa show near +25 standard deviation. The negative peak is between -20 & -25 for 45 degress eastward from Midheaven. And Angular Cusps using CHITRA Ayanamsa show near -5 standard deviation. The abscissa of the graph is in units of standard deviation. Statistical significance commences at the two-unit level, at which the odds arc 20 to 1 against the proposition that the deviation occurred only fortuitously. The odds are around 10,000 to one at four standard deviations. At six units the chances against mere coincidence become incalculably large, running into the billions. As you can observe for yourself, the departure from mathematical " normalcy of occurrence " skyrockets into the trillions and zillions again the premise of pure coincidence. Scientifically, this is incontestable proof that the astrological claim concerning the influence of lunar ingresses--the one into Capricornus, at any rate-- it true. Needless to mention, this finding and others like it have caused considerable excitement over the " potential possibilities " among scientists who are privy to it--but it is obvious why we cannot dwell on this particular phase of the matter for the time being. How ironic it is, that these research findings should have their first public disclosure in form of an effort to enlighten siderealists about a fundamental property of their own zodiac! We have been saving this material, for a long time now, against the day it would be needed to (a) squelch so-called scientific deriders of astrology, and/or (b) demonstrate to tropical astrologers that there is something solid to astrology after all, thus allaying their unspoken fears. You people who are entertaining other ayanamsas must now face the issue raised by this and other equally revealing displays of evidence which underscore the reality of the SVP. That issue is, to put it bluntly, the glaring fact that either the synetic vernal point is pretty close to being 'right on the nose, " or else is some 3 degrees wrong, three degrees being the minimum error which these irrefutable statistics will permit to exist. [***see note below MQ] That is, if the fundamental principle behind astrology in regard to angularity of planetary position for appropriate events is true, and if the SVP is more than a few seconds " wrong, " the only possible alternative is that the true ayanamsa is far enough away from the synetic point that this same Jupiter-rainfall curve can be reasonably duplicated only by at least a three-degree displacement of the actual figure. In summary, let us say that the Synetic Vernal Point conceivably could be wrong. But if it is, it is wrong by a hell of an amount and not by just one or two degrees! Using the median amount of daily motion of the Moon as the criterion for spacing, we have marked arrows on the graph showing the contrasting positions of the angular cusps (quadrants being successively superposed) for the synetic versus the expectations from use of the Lahiri fiducial. Note how closely the SVP Jupiter distribution peaks out near the lines of the angular cusps themselves, with least frequency falling just 45 degrees from the angles. If my faith in astrological verities were in the least diminished proper to this knowledge, though of course it wasn't these scientific facts would have restored it to full bloom. How about you pumpers for other ayanamsas, with whom I now conclude my first and last argument on this particular subject? Here's a faith restorer. Help yourself. * * * * ***The three degree displacement Bradley mentions here refers to the fact that an ayanamsa three degrees different than the SVP would create a lunar position for an ingress that would have angles approximately 90 degrees away from those set with the SVP position. Sidereally yours, Matthew ______________________ ______________________ Message: 4 Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:34:23 -0000 " mquellas " <mquellas San Francisco Fire & Quake (Response yet again) Therese, Just a few further comments on this. [TH]Remember, I go way back!! I remember my Tropical training and the 'finger of God' aspect. Yes, Jyotish calls the quincunx the '8th house aspect' and it belongs to Mars. It's given 50 percent strength (or therabouts)with the other planets depending on which author you read. However, since I noticed an abundance of 150 degree aspects in the quake charts involving the angles, I've elevated the inconjunct to a major aspect for the earthquake study. [TH] This is why I don't use the sesquiquadrate, because it's 135 degrees and too close to the quinxunx. So I allow larger orbs for the quincunx. --------------- [MQ] Yet, Therese, you dismiss the semi-square and sesqui-square (as in the SF Quake chart where Mars ties into all three planets of the T- square with orbs of less than one degree) as " minor aspects " than can be ignored. I don't pay attention to a -45- or -135- aspect with more than +/- two degrees orb. And I don't think that half a sign distance from the quincunx is " too close " to make a distinction. -------------- [TH] 'Tightly angular' planets is a sidereal concept. Again, we have to let the charts speak for themselves. If there can be a fairly wide orb between Uranus and the MC in the Loma Prieta chart, then we have to be careful how tight we think the orbs should be. I do like to see close orbs, yes, but that doesn't always happen. ------------ [MQ] Therese, I think you missed my point regarding the quotidian angles. By their very definition, quotidian angles are progressed angles for a specific date and place. Since with the Mean Q1 Rate, the quotidian sidereal time increases 3 min 56.6 sec *a calendar day*, the Q1 MC increases in longitude about a degree a day with the ASC moving in proportion to it. Thus the contacts to quotidian angles *must* be tight, a degree or two at most; otherwise the quotidian's function of day-to-day contacts with natal, progressed, or transiting planets is meaningless, and I have not found it to be meaningless in many years of working with quotidians. ------------- >[MQ] As I said in my previous post, I feel that the lunar ingresses >are important tools as well as the solar ingresses. They complement >each other. The 13 CapLunars each year help to get the narrower time >view. [TH] It makes more sense to use the 12 solar ingress charts, since the importance of the CapLunar can be debated, despite Bradley's research. And it looks like we're never going to see that research. ---------- [MQ] You keep complaining about our not being able to replicate Bradley's research on determining or refining the ayanamsa.Yet that is what I have been trying to do with these earthquakes by using quotidian progressions of the ingress angles to a given event. That is how Bradley did it. He used both solar and lunar ingress charts. He (and other early sidereal pioneers) found that the Cap ingresses were most indicative and showed that with quotidian progressions and transits to the static ingress chart angles. He used earthquakes, disasters, accidents -- all sorts of events with the ingresses. No, we're *not* going to replicate his rainfall study with almost 50,000 events of maximum rainfall at measurement stations all over the country over a period of decades. I don't personally have the time or the government funding that Bradley had for that. And I actually don't feel it's necessary to replicate that study. If you look at the Rainfall files in sidereal.zip again, you'll see that his work was evaluated by non-astrological researchers in a government-funded study that was never finished. Take a look at my post quoting his own material and look at the Jupiter Rainfall graph. Sidereally yours, Matthew --------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 At 03:51 PM 1/28/04 +0100, Anny wrote: >... I only underlined >the value of the local MC and Ascendant for the cities >involved, in connection with the time of the earthquack. >I studied these earthquacks -you mentioned here- before >comparing with the local MC and Asc via the Length of >the city, converted first in time for the necessary >correction. >I should admit, that I calculated first in the mode Fagan >Allen. Now I am trying out the Krishnamurti ayamsa, with >the mode Meridian houses and the TransNeptuner.These are >called TransNeptuner in the 20ieth years;before the Pluto >discovery in 1930. > Hi Anny, If you are able, please post some of your figures (Asc/MC/planets) for an earthquake so we can better understand your calculations. (In this case it would be interesting to see where the TransNeptunians are.) Thanks, Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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