Guest guest Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 At 12:27 PM 9/15/04 -0500, Cynthia wrote: > >Dear Therese and Andrew >Do you have Ken Johnson's book on the nakshatras (my absolute favorite!!!!) Ken Johnson is a poet, and very much into mythology. But he needs a good map of the sky! I looked up Swati, my lunar mansion, and he begins with poetic ramblings on Arcturus. However, Arcturus is in the preceding mansion along with Spica. So disregarding this kind of error, which is carried over from Indian texts: Vayu, the wind God is said to rule Swati, and Ken's description fits me fairly well, lighter than air (not sure what he means by that--more poetry--but I'm extremely sensitive to vibrations)--flexible and adaptable. Yes, that's true. My family calls me 'the embodiment of change.' (Nevertheless, Tropical astrologers will see Scorpio and insist that I'm extremely fixed and stubborn.) Swati is supposed to be linked to the goddess of learning. Sure, I've been a life long student and love to incorporate new information and wisdom. But what bothers me about this is that many people love to learn and are good at studying, and they don't all have the Moon is Swati. >Do either of you have any observations about Abhijit? This is one that is >very difficult to find any information on. Basically Aabhijit doesn't exist in the Hindu nakshatra system. It was actually incorporated in another mansion as one of the quarters as I remember. This is discussed in SURYA SIDDHANTA. I apologize for not wanting to take time to look it up tonight. >HAve either of you worked with the deities? They were my keys to what level >of understanding I have about the naks....most of which garnered by working >with clients and having them show me. I'm not totally sure that the deities were originally linked to the nakshatras. And I'm not sure the symbolism always fits, or even nearly always fits. If you read the material on the nakshatras that was published years ago--in B.V. Raman's time, the descriptions were cut and dried. One nak 'is always hungry.' Another likes jewels and fine dress. Then Behari and Frawley came along and somehow found (unearthed?) material on deities and mythology. Then others like Harness and Johnson built on this material. For the 'facts' I always go back to DeFouw for comparison. There are some core meanings to the naks that I've seen that doesn't relate at all to deities or myth. Right now (in my opinion) we have a grand mixture of fact, fiction and imagination. What really matters is examples using charts of real people. So...if you have some good examples of how the deities manifest in the lunar mansions, please share! Indian on-line sources probably have books on the myths and deities of India. I have several of these, but have never really read them. I'm more or less familiar with the main Indian dieties from long association with India and its philosophy. Regarding the nakshatras/mansions/royal courts of the Moon, we have about 99 percent of our research remaining. So, any concrete examples would be more than welcome. I'm afraid my reply is not much help! How about if we look at some examples of the Moon in the nakshatras? Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 At 01:47 PM 12/15/04 -0600, Cynthia wrote: > >Here is Joni's website. Got to Nakshatras on the left. Cynthia, you forgot the URL. Guess I'm not the only person who has developed 'holiday head.' Or is 'electon stress' head? Really, some days this month I hardly know my own name. > If anyone is interested, I can email you the lengthy text of a handout I >gave during the last American COuncil of Vedic Astrologers conference. Yes, I would like a copy. eastwest I've found that some of the nak/lunar mansion meanings are nothing like what is in the books. > and that book Myths and symbolism by - Bepin Behari >Mine is not >so steeped in tradition but more experiencial....therefore could be better >or really off. It did get rave reviews at the conference by folks who were >open to a new voice. Looking forward to reading something original on the mansions! Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Dear Therese The article is on its way where is the site: www.galacticcenter.org c Therese Hamilton [eastwest] Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:28 PM RE: Nakshatras/lunar mansions At 01:47 PM 12/15/04 -0600, Cynthia wrote: > >Here is Joni's website. Got to Nakshatras on the left. Cynthia, you forgot the URL. Guess I'm not the only person who has developed 'holiday head.' Or is 'electon stress' head? Really, some days this month I hardly know my own name. > If anyone is interested, I can email you the lengthy text of a handout I >gave during the last American COuncil of Vedic Astrologers conference. Yes, I would like a copy. eastwest I've found that some of the nak/lunar mansion meanings are nothing like what is in the books. > and that book Myths and symbolism by - Bepin Behari >Mine is not >so steeped in tradition but more experiencial....therefore could be better >or really off. It did get rave reviews at the conference by folks who were >open to a new voice. Looking forward to reading something original on the mansions! Therese " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Hello Therese, I would like to know how you use the nakshatra in delineation? Do you use them for further insight on house delineation? For example, if Aries is in the seventh house: will you check both Mars (ruler of Aries) and the nakshatra ruler (Venus if Bharani): where they fall (sign and nakshatra) and the aspects they receive? Etc. Also what do you think of them in return charts? The best I have read on the subject, is that they were mainly use to compute the Vimshottari Dasa. I feel I loose part of the richness of delineation this way... -- Best regards - François Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Dear Francois From what I have read the nakshatras are partof the oldest form of Hindu astrology. According to Ken Johnson, they are part of the ancient tradition from the Indus Valley region. I do not know how old the Vim Dasha system is, but I believe that the IV tradition is older. It would make sense that they are part of an ancient story-telling tradition. Perhaps they were adopted to different uses later. In my opinion, when we lose the story we lose the richness and are left with a purely analytical model. It would be very hard to know when the planets as rulers were added, why those particular planets were chosen and who made those decisions. The deities associated with them make sense to me, the planets do not....and I have truly tried to make sense of those planets. (I'm not the scholar on Vedic astrologer Therese is; but since she is really busy I thought I would offer an opinion.) alchocoden [alchocoden] Friday, December 17, 2004 4:29 AM Re: Nakshatras/lunar mansions Hello Therese, I would like to know how you use the nakshatra in delineation? Do you use them for further insight on house delineation? For example, if Aries is in the seventh house: will you check both Mars (ruler of Aries) and the nakshatra ruler (Venus if Bharani): where they fall (sign and nakshatra) and the aspects they receive? Etc. Also what do you think of them in return charts? The best I have read on the subject, is that they were mainly use to compute the Vimshottari Dasa. I feel I loose part of the richness of delineation this way... -- Best regards - François " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Dear Cynthia: I just wanted to say thanks for including Joni's website- http://www.galacticcenter.org/ (I had bookmarked it before based on your recommendation but had not revisited it). She is extremely clear in her explanations of Jyotish, and I just read her 2005 predictions, which reflect much of what I've been feeling. I have not felt a way out, presently including the Mercury Rx " stuckness, " until Rahu-Ketu change to Pisces-Virgo Feb 22, and although Joni suggests that Ketu conjunct Jupiter is positive in terms of spiritual transformation, what do you and others see with Rahu in Pisces? Is this major spiritual deception? And how would this impact Cancer lagna (H-3, H-9) with Rahu in the House of Blessings? Thanks for your insights. Janna 'Gone, gone, gone beyond, gone altogether beyond, O what an awakening, all-hail!' -- http://seven_directions.tripod.com/ , " cynthianovak " < cynthianovak@s...> wrote: > Dear Therese The article is on its way > > where is the site: www.galacticcenter.org > > > c > > Therese Hamilton [eastwest@s...] > Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:28 PM > > RE: Nakshatras/lunar mansions > > > At 01:47 PM 12/15/04 -0600, Cynthia wrote: > > > >Here is Joni's website. Got to Nakshatras on the left. > > Cynthia, you forgot the URL. Guess I'm not the only person who has > developed 'holiday head.' Or is 'electon stress' head? Really, some days > this month I hardly know my own name. > > > If anyone is interested, I can email you the lengthy text of a handout > I > >gave during the last American COuncil of Vedic Astrologers conference. > > Yes, I would like a copy. eastwest@s... > I've found that some of the nak/lunar mansion meanings are nothing like > what is in the books. > > > and that book Myths and symbolism by - > > Bepin Behari > > >Mine is not > >so steeped in tradition but more experiencial....therefore could be > better > >or really off. It did get rave reviews at the conference by folks who > were > >open to a new voice. > > Looking forward to reading something original on the mansions! > > Therese > > > > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > / > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Dear Janna have you read the article on my website for the winter 2005? It's very different than Joni's and you might find it interesting. www.cynthianovak.com c Janna Lynn [jnanalynn] Friday, December 17, 2004 9:55 AM Re: Nakshatras/lunar mansions Dear Cynthia: I just wanted to say thanks for including Joni's website- http://www.galacticcenter.org/ (I had bookmarked it before based on your recommendation but had not revisited it). She is extremely clear in her explanations of Jyotish, and I just read her 2005 predictions, which reflect much of what I've been feeling. I have not felt a way out, presently including the Mercury Rx " stuckness, " until Rahu-Ketu change to Pisces-Virgo Feb 22, and although Joni suggests that Ketu conjunct Jupiter is positive in terms of spiritual transformation, what do you and others see with Rahu in Pisces? Is this major spiritual deception? And how would this impact Cancer lagna (H-3, H-9) with Rahu in the House of Blessings? Thanks for your insights. Janna 'Gone, gone, gone beyond, gone altogether beyond, O what an awakening, all-hail!' -- http://seven_directions.tripod.com/ , " cynthianovak " < cynthianovak@s...> wrote: > Dear Therese The article is on its way > > where is the site: www.galacticcenter.org > > > c > > Therese Hamilton [eastwest@s...] > Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:28 PM > > RE: Nakshatras/lunar mansions > > > At 01:47 PM 12/15/04 -0600, Cynthia wrote: > > > >Here is Joni's website. Got to Nakshatras on the left. > > Cynthia, you forgot the URL. Guess I'm not the only person who has > developed 'holiday head.' Or is 'electon stress' head? Really, some days > this month I hardly know my own name. > > > If anyone is interested, I can email you the lengthy text of a handout > I > >gave during the last American COuncil of Vedic Astrologers conference. > > Yes, I would like a copy. eastwest@s... > I've found that some of the nak/lunar mansion meanings are nothing like > what is in the books. > > > and that book Myths and symbolism by - > > Bepin Behari > > >Mine is not > >so steeped in tradition but more experiencial....therefore could be > better > >or really off. It did get rave reviews at the conference by folks who > were > >open to a new voice. > > Looking forward to reading something original on the mansions! > > Therese > > > > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > / > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 How could Rahu in Pisces (Revati) be major spiritual deception???? It seems that the qualities of Pisces in western astrology are being merged here. I'm in a hurry now, but perhaps it would be worth a look at the year when last Rahu entered Pisces. Revati is profoundly soulful. It is essentially spiritual. It is not, in my opinion religious. I can't see spiritual and deception in the same sentence. (I have Venus in Revati and have many clients with Ravati placements, they are not deceptive at all.) I honestly do not experience much of an impact of the nodes until they tightly aspect a planet. c Janna Lynn [jnanalynn] Friday, December 17, 2004 9:55 AM Re: Nakshatras/lunar mansions Dear Cynthia: I just wanted to say thanks for including Joni's website- http://www.galacticcenter.org/ (I had bookmarked it before based on your recommendation but had not revisited it). She is extremely clear in her explanations of Jyotish, and I just read her 2005 predictions, which reflect much of what I've been feeling. I have not felt a way out, presently including the Mercury Rx " stuckness, " until Rahu-Ketu change to Pisces-Virgo Feb 22, and although Joni suggests that Ketu conjunct Jupiter is positive in terms of spiritual transformation, what do you and others see with Rahu in Pisces? Is this major spiritual deception? And how would this impact Cancer lagna (H-3, H-9) with Rahu in the House of Blessings? Thanks for your insights. Janna 'Gone, gone, gone beyond, gone altogether beyond, O what an awakening, all-hail!' -- http://seven_directions.tripod.com/ , " cynthianovak " < cynthianovak@s...> wrote: > Dear Therese The article is on its way > > where is the site: www.galacticcenter.org > > > c > > Therese Hamilton [eastwest@s...] > Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:28 PM > > RE: Nakshatras/lunar mansions > > > At 01:47 PM 12/15/04 -0600, Cynthia wrote: > > > >Here is Joni's website. Got to Nakshatras on the left. > > Cynthia, you forgot the URL. Guess I'm not the only person who has > developed 'holiday head.' Or is 'electon stress' head? Really, some days > this month I hardly know my own name. > > > If anyone is interested, I can email you the lengthy text of a handout > I > >gave during the last American COuncil of Vedic Astrologers conference. > > Yes, I would like a copy. eastwest@s... > I've found that some of the nak/lunar mansion meanings are nothing like > what is in the books. > > > and that book Myths and symbolism by - > > Bepin Behari > > >Mine is not > >so steeped in tradition but more experiencial....therefore could be > better > >or really off. It did get rave reviews at the conference by folks who > were > >open to a new voice. > > Looking forward to reading something original on the mansions! > > Therese > > > > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > / > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 At 09:36 AM 12/17/04 -0600, Cynthia wrote: > >Dear Francois >From what I have read the nakshatras are partof the oldest form of Hindu >astrology. According to Ken Johnson, they are part of the ancient tradition >from the Indus Valley region. I do not know how old the Vim Dasha system >is, but I believe that the IV tradition is older. It would make sense that >they are part of an ancient story-telling tradition. Perhaps they were >adopted to different uses later. In my opinion, when we lose the story we >lose the richness and are left with a purely analytical model. It would be >very hard to know when the planets as rulers were added, why those >particular planets were chosen and who made those decisions. The deities >associated with them make sense to me, the planets do not....and I have >truly tried to make sense of those planets. Hi Cynthia, The main problem with the story model (which I'm not debating) is that the stories were linked to individual stars or asterisms. Now these stars and asterisms sometimes fall in different nakshatras. Actually they fall in different 'lunar mansions,' because the 'nakshatras' are no longer the original nakshatras. I have a table of the differences between ancient nakshatras and the 27-fold division of lunar mansions, which was included in an article I wrote for Raman's Astrological Magazine years ago. I must have this on disk somewhere, but wouldn't have time to find it before January. If you or anyone else would like a copy of the table (and article if I can find it), I can send it via snail mail if you send your address to: eastwest Oh boy. Planetary 'lords' of nakshatras. Another massive investigation/discussion! And the Krishnamurti system is based solely on them. Therese P.S. There are still posts from this list that I need to reply to. I happened to click on Cynthia's post randomly, which is why I'm replying to it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Dear Therese When you have had time to rest, I would love to see that article. There is so much I do not know. smiles c Therese Hamilton [eastwest] Friday, December 17, 2004 12:34 PM Re: Nakshatras/lunar mansions At 09:36 AM 12/17/04 -0600, Cynthia wrote: > >Dear Francois >From what I have read the nakshatras are partof the oldest form of Hindu >astrology. According to Ken Johnson, they are part of the ancient tradition >from the Indus Valley region. I do not know how old the Vim Dasha system >is, but I believe that the IV tradition is older. It would make sense that >they are part of an ancient story-telling tradition. Perhaps they were >adopted to different uses later. In my opinion, when we lose the story we >lose the richness and are left with a purely analytical model. It would be >very hard to know when the planets as rulers were added, why those >particular planets were chosen and who made those decisions. The deities >associated with them make sense to me, the planets do not....and I have >truly tried to make sense of those planets. Hi Cynthia, The main problem with the story model (which I'm not debating) is that the stories were linked to individual stars or asterisms. Now these stars and asterisms sometimes fall in different nakshatras. Actually they fall in different 'lunar mansions,' because the 'nakshatras' are no longer the original nakshatras. I have a table of the differences between ancient nakshatras and the 27-fold division of lunar mansions, which was included in an article I wrote for Raman's Astrological Magazine years ago. I must have this on disk somewhere, but wouldn't have time to find it before January. If you or anyone else would like a copy of the table (and article if I can find it), I can send it via snail mail if you send your address to: eastwest Oh boy. Planetary 'lords' of nakshatras. Another massive investigation/discussion! And the Krishnamurti system is based solely on them. Therese P.S. There are still posts from this list that I need to reply to. I happened to click on Cynthia's post randomly, which is why I'm replying to it now. " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 At 01:55 PM 12/17/04 -0600, Cynthia wrote: > >Dear Therese > >When you have had time to rest, I would love to see that article. There is >so much I do not know. Cynthia, there is so much we all don't know. I won't have time to rest. I'll just be less busy in January, so if you send me your address, I'll send the table and the article if I can find it. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Therese Hamilton wrote: >At 09:36 AM 12/17/04 -0600, Cynthia wrote: > > >>Dear Francois >> >> >>From what I have read the nakshatras are partof the oldest form of Hindu > > >>astrology. According to Ken Johnson, they are part of the ancient tradition >> >> >>from the Indus Valley region. I do not know how old the Vim Dasha system > > >>is, but I believe that the IV tradition is older. It would make sense that >>they are part of an ancient story-telling tradition. Perhaps they were >>adopted to different uses later. In my opinion, when we lose the story we >>lose the richness and are left with a purely analytical model. It would be >>very hard to know when the planets as rulers were added, why those >>particular planets were chosen and who made those decisions. The deities >>associated with them make sense to me, the planets do not....and I have >>truly tried to make sense of those planets. >> >> > > <Text Sniped> --\ ------------------------- I suspect, but do not know for a fact that the Nakshatras were the sucessors to the old system of marking stars used by the Babylonians. The Daasa system , determined by the position of the Moon in the Nakshatras, may have started out as space before it became purely time. This I do not know for a fact, but it is an idea that presents itself for testing. Regards, Bert Fannin www.ltastrology.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Sounds interesting and worth pondering to me c Bert Fannin [bwfannin] Friday, December 17, 2004 6:22 PM Re: Re: Nakshatras/lunar mansions Therese Hamilton wrote: >At 09:36 AM 12/17/04 -0600, Cynthia wrote: > > >>Dear Francois >> >> >>From what I have read the nakshatras are partof the oldest form of Hindu > > >>astrology. According to Ken Johnson, they are part of the ancient tradition >> >> >>from the Indus Valley region. I do not know how old the Vim Dasha system > > >>is, but I believe that the IV tradition is older. It would make sense that >>they are part of an ancient story-telling tradition. Perhaps they were >>adopted to different uses later. In my opinion, when we lose the story we >>lose the richness and are left with a purely analytical model. It would be >>very hard to know when the planets as rulers were added, why those >>particular planets were chosen and who made those decisions. The deities >>associated with them make sense to me, the planets do not....and I have >>truly tried to make sense of those planets. >> >> > > <Text Sniped> -------- ------------------------------- I suspect, but do not know for a fact that the Nakshatras were the sucessors to the old system of marking stars used by the Babylonians. The Daasa system , determined by the position of the Moon in the Nakshatras, may have started out as space before it became purely time. This I do not know for a fact, but it is an idea that presents itself for testing. Regards, Bert Fannin www.ltastrology.com " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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