Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 I humbly bow to your uncanny predictive ability. I haven't been blessed with such an intuitive Moon. Now what do you have to say about the coming election this year and the fate of our current president? [cynthianovak] I think that the Moon works better at feeling where client is tied in knots and what's at the core of it. You know when something is an intuitive hit because it is so calm and just there. That makes elections...particularly the presidential election difficult because it is so emotional! Last time I just " knew " W was going to win. He never said that he wanted the nomination, just said he " wanted to see if there was support... " There was support and that set in motion (in my mind) that destiny was guiding him along. I find that charts like his where all the planets are on one side of the nodes are very destined in nature. It's difficult for anyone to go out there and just see if there is support in a detached manner. But, that's how I heard it and felt it and saw the support. [cynthianovak] This time it's a little different. I've said since last year that W. would win if he did not withdraw. I thought that a threat to his family (Saturn to the Sun squaring the Moon and no help from Jupiter this summer might indicate a threat to his family by a health crises or direct terrorist attack.) I even wondered about his own health. When Saturn stationed very near his SUn in late October he sounded very low...even drained...his Dr. told him to give up jogging. I did read that W. decided to run again because he felt that is what God wants him to do. So he won't be pulling out and I believe will win. I know that astrologers have been predicting dire things for him: scandal leading to impeachment etc. In his past, the last time Saturn triggered these planets was 7 years ago, he was governor of Texas and right as SAturn was squaring Sun and opp Moon Karl Rove approaced him about running for nomination and they launched the committee to seek support for his run. In 1977, last time Saturn conjoined his Sun and squared his Moon, his father was in China and supposedly W. was caught with cocaine. There is some reason to suspect scandal, but the long-term results aren't there. So I stick to it. If W. is on the ticket he will win. I think that the Dems have this summer to move ahead. Kerry went ahead of his opponents in the primaries as each one had a SAturn transit. He does not seem to be gaining much now. He has gotten big financial support. The Dem convention is nicely timed at the end of Venus in his 7th and just after it crossed his Uranus and Mars (where Venus stations direct at the midpoint and conjunct both) and finally his Moon. July is his month. It seems that 7th house, whom he chooses as VP will be very important, but probably too late. The Reps chose their Sept date long ago. Do they have a sidereal astrologer who told them that is when Jupiter would enter his 3rd and approach that fortunate Jup Moon? Let's not forget that Jupiter is his lucky planet and Jupiter stations on his Jupiter in Jan. 2005. This is the astrologer talking, personally I'm tired of both parties. I think that we are being snookered by both. As long as we the people are stirred up and taking sides for and against another group we are easy to manipulate. Rather like cheering for the home team at a ball game. Each side wants us to be afraid of what the other might do so we are really eager to accept any terms that are tossed under the umbrella of the " home team. " I would like to see someone campaigning to bring the outer edges together. I don't see that happening as long as both sides get results using emotion. (sorry to ramble off astrology here. This tactic is as old as history, just more accessible with TV and frenzied news networks.) >>Also, the Kelleher chart doesn't show the great fear and grief that would follow like a transiting Saturn on the Moon of the other chart suggests. So we're looking at (6:30) Mars/Ketu on the natal ascendant, in close sextile to the USA Moon. (The god Mars was accompanied by beings known as 'Fear' and 'Panic.') The Mars sextile is only 20 minutes from being exact. Then with Cynthia's chart we have transiting Saturn on natal Moon. (I don't know the orb.) I'd say at best it's a toss up. Mars/Ketu can indicate great shock and grief,and these planets *do* closely aspect the 6:30 Moon, plus they're on the natal ascendant. Cynthia, you may not have used solar return charts? These are the foundation of the western sidereal school. India uses the Varshaphal chart, but mostly India talks about the dasa periods. In the western sidereal tradition, any important transit has to relate to one of the chart angles. [cynthianovak] I have played with SR for years as a tropical astrologer and again using the varshapal. Do you relocate or use birth place? I can't get them to make sense. Sometimes they do when I'm with a client: I can't trust them for myself so am afraid to use them. It seems that in varshapala every year is horrendous. Life has stuff, but not the dire issues I read...then try to forget! Please, where can I read an accurate SR approach. I'm ready! >Likewise, when JFK was assasinated, Saturn was on the Moon of the Uranus ASC chart. We do have a transting Moon-Saturn conjunction with the Moon being right on natal Ketu. Transiting Rahu is also on natal Sun. These transits would be the same in both charts. Anny on this list has noticed that the nodes relate to events that affect many people. But you are right--there is no transit of Saturn to the natal 6:30 USA Moon. >...I would expect that a big transit to the Moon in a nations chart would >reflect big emotions: Saturn equals sorrow. Where is that in the Kelleher >chart? Actually (in my opinion) the transit of Saturn in its own sign to the Moon wouldn't necessarily be negative. The nodes can bring powerful emotions. [cynthianovak] I agree that the nodes often do bring powerful emotions: greed, anxiety, general stress. Do you use the 120 degree aspect of the nodes as well as conjunction? Both the charts have Ketu just passing and just coming into aspect of the 4 planets in Gemini. I agree that a Saturn transit and be beneficial, but essentially SAturn sucks. Even when he is a friend and well placed, he's still heavy. Even when he tells you the truth you don't want to hear like a good auditor of your books, he's still Saturnine. I sounds as if the Kelleher chart works well in many situations. I certainly can't say which one works for everyone. I assume that the chart any astrologer uses will reflect that person's opinion of the US. Oh, I almost forgot, I think I may have posted something wrong before. On 9-11th Uranus was on the Moon of the Uranus rising chart, Saturn was on the Moon when JFK was killed. On 9-11th, Saturn was on the ASC and just pased it by 3 degrees, Rahu on Venus, ord of the 1st, the Moon on Mars and Jupiter on natal Jup. conj Sun (the president was in FL) I gotta get back to gardening, if the Moon is in shatabishik, how does that describe the people of the US or does the Moon describe us at all? I may not understand shatabishik well. thanks to all for the conversation, apologies for long-winded response, have had a busy morning. c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Hi, For me Bush's win in 2000 was predicted from his SSR for birth and declared from one feature alone. Nothing more needed...although much was interestedly explored and found useful. Dark*Star ----------- cynthianovak wrote: > That makes elections...particularly > the presidential election difficult because it is so emotional! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Dark*Star ... What was the one feature? .... Bettina Dark Star [pansophia] Sunday, June 20, 2004 3:22 PM Re: Bush and 2004 Hi, For me Bush's win in 2000 was predicted from his SSR for birth and declared from one feature alone. Nothing more needed...although much was interestedly explored and found useful. Dark*Star ----------- cynthianovak wrote: > That makes elections...particularly > the presidential election difficult because it is so emotional! " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Hey all Dark Star Please: Tell me how you do your returns. (Is that what SSR means?) Y'all have me so curious and hopeful. What about this year? thanks cynthia Dark Star [pansophia] Sunday, June 20, 2004 5:22 PM Re: Bush and 2004 Hi, For me Bush's win in 2000 was predicted from his SSR for birth and declared from one feature alone. Nothing more needed...although much was interestedly explored and found useful. Dark*Star ----------- cynthianovak wrote: > That makes elections...particularly > the presidential election difficult because it is so emotional! " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Bettina, Cynthia... The one feature in Bush's SSR (Sidereal Solar Return) for BP was: 1.) Uranus partile MC, but one degree... changes: change of profession, change of residence. Even without consideration of: ======================= 2.) Solar Uranus partile sextile to partile conjunction of natal Uranus-Node in his XIth... orchestration and manipulation of a group of people. 3.) 4.) 5.) Dark*Star -------------- Bettina wrote: > What was the one feature? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 At 11:10 AM 6/20/04 -0500, Cynthia wrote: >...This time [the coming election] it's a little different. I've said since last year >that W. would win if he did not withdraw. I thought that a threat to his >family (Saturn to the Sun squaring the Moon and no help from Jupiter this >summer might indicate a threat to his family by a health crises or direct >terrorist attack.) I even wondered about his own health... .....I did read that W. decided to run again because he felt that is what God wants him to do. So he won't be pulling out and I believe will win. Thanks for these extensive comments, Cynthia. I found them fascinating. It seems that the key to this election and the year for the United States is how the Satunr-Sun conjunction turns out in both the U.S. chart and GW's chart. >...There is some reason to suspect scandal, but the long-term results aren't there. So I stick to it. If W. is on the ticket he will win. >...Let's not forget that Jupiter is his >lucky planet and Jupiter stations on his Jupiter in Jan. 2005. > >This is the astrologer talking, personally I'm tired of both parties. I >think that we are being snookered by both... I must agree with you! >...I have played with SR for years as a tropical astrologer and again using the >varshapal. Do you relocate or use birth place? The western sidereal system relocates the solar return, but when Arnold S. was elected governor of California, the natal return showed the victory in a much clearer way, and he was born in Europe. >>Please, where can I read an accurate SR approach. I'm ready! This should be the list where you can get some hints, as return charts are more or less the foundation of western sidereal astrology. On the other hand, I sometimes find the SR charts confusing myself. > Do you use the 120 degree aspect of the nodes as well as >conjunction? Yes. >I assume that the chart any astrologer uses will reflect that >person's opinion of the US. Perhaps...I just noted that your Mercury is in the same degree as the ascendant and Uranus in the chart of the U.S. you prefer! No wonder you tune into that chart. >...if the Moon is in shatabishik, how does that >describe the people of the US or does the Moon describe us at all? I may >not understand shatabishik well I think a lot of the material on the nakshatras is just plain inaccurate, so I can't comment on the U.S. Moon. What I have noted in personal charts is that it's the aspecting planets that really influence the Moon. So carrying that a bit further, it may be the nakahatras of the aspecting planets that help to describe the Moon. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Cynthia, If you just need half an answer, do birth place. If you just need the other half, do relocation. There is no united front in western astrology on this subject, ergo :: for G. Bush look to... New Haven, CT Washington, DC Crawford, TX Dark*Star ------------------------- Therese Hamilton wrote: > Do you relocate or use birth place? > > > The western sidereal system relocates the solar return, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 SSR is Sidereal Solar Return. It is the chart for the moment when the transiting Sun has the same longitude as at birth. It is the foremost predictive tool for natal astrology. It only works if the birth time is close to correct,and in the Sidereal Zodiac. The amount of Sidereal Time- acceleration is the amount of time that the birth time must be corrected. Sidereally, Bert Bert W. Fannin Western Sidereal Astrologer Location and Timing Astrology ltastrology " Where you should be and when you should be there. " - " cynthianovak " <cynthianovak Sunday, June 20, 2004 4:02 PM RE: Bush and 2004 > Hey all Dark Star > > Please: Tell me how you do your returns. (Is that what SSR means?) Y'all > have me so curious and hopeful. What about this year? > thanks > cynthia > > Dark Star [pansophia] > Sunday, June 20, 2004 5:22 PM > > Re: Bush and 2004 > > > > Hi, > > For me Bush's win in 2000 was predicted from his SSR for birth > and declared from one feature alone. Nothing more needed...although > much was interestedly explored and found useful. > > Dark*Star > ----------- > > cynthianovak wrote: > > > That makes elections...particularly > > the presidential election difficult because it is so emotional! > > > > > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > / > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 At 11:28 PM 6/20/04 -0700, Dark*Star wrote: > >Cynthia, > >If you just need half an answer, do birth place. >If you just need the other half, do relocation. > >There is no united front in western astrology >on this subject, Dark*Star, No kidding??!! I thought sidereal western astrologers always used the relocation chart. But I like the idea of using them both together. But then there's more choices... Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Yes, And if you will do the Crawford for his 2001 SSR, the one last night...you find his natal Mercury-Saturn right on its ASC. Bush always has Sun rising in his natal 1946 for Crawford. I do believe the returns are a Humpty-Dumpty that can be put together again. Dark*Star ----------------------- Therese Hamilton wrote: > relocation chart. But I like the idea of using them both together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Hi All OK I've run W's and Kerry's SSR for 2004. I did Kerry's for Boston which did any of you use? Using his sunrise chart as that natal, I get 8 GE on the ASC and Sun with Merucry and Pluto in tight aspect in the 3rd. What am I missing? It doesn't look that wonderful. When I did W's for Crawford, I see that the Moon just crossed Uranus and Venus in Taurus in the 1st. Doesn't this suggest that he will change course after his birthday this year? Interestingly, running W's for BP has a tight MC Uranus conjunction in both the 2004 and 2000 charts: change then and now.Hmmm What is the ASC that any of you are getting? thanks all, gotta run Mon and Tues are my busiest days with clients. I so appreciate this discussion c Dark Star [pansophia] Sunday, June 20, 2004 10:43 PM Re: Bush and 2004 Bettina, Cynthia... The one feature in Bush's SSR (Sidereal Solar Return) for BP was: 1.) Uranus partile MC, but one degree... changes: change of profession, change of residence. Even without consideration of: ======================= 2.) Solar Uranus partile sextile to partile conjunction of natal Uranus-Node in his XIth... orchestration and manipulation of a group of people. 3.) 4.) 5.) Dark*Star -------------- Bettina wrote: > What was the one feature? > > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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