Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Hi: Speaking of Sidereal Ingress Charts I have been using them off and on for many years and am wondering how others view them. I believe Garth Allen wrote about them at length in the American Astrology magazine way back when. Do others feel that the CapSolar ingress chart (which sets up every year around Jan 15th) should give indications for the entire year at a specified location or is it really necessary to use the cardinal ingress closer to the event to see more meaningful indicators. A good example is the Capsolar for 2001 set up for New York which seems to provide very little indication of the horrendous 9/11 terrorist attack on the WTC. Any comments appreciated? Best Wishes William Bussey Bert Fannin <bwfannin wrote: - " Juan Oliver " <jivio Thursday, July 08, 2004 11:27 PM Re: RE: Election 2004 > > > Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote: > The siderealists and > tropical astrologers use their Cancer ingresses for the following three > months. I use it only for a month, and then jump to the Leo (Krishnamurti) > ingress in August. > > No true for all... Some sidereal astrologers like myself use the cardinal ingresses throughout the year. > > An ingress chart does not end until its cycle starts all over again the following year. Four cardinal ingress charts are in play simultaneously. The primary one being the Cap, then the Can followed by the Aires and Libra Solar Ingress (Returns)... > > One simply maps the progressions and the transits to the natal and progressed positions for each Cardinal Solar Ingress. > > Informative charts are also done for the fixed and mutable signs by some astrologers as well as new and full moon charts. ________ Jivio: That is correct, some of us do that. I use the Capsolar Ingress as the master chart and progress the angles of the chart at the SQ rate, that is the Right Ascension of the Apparent Sun. I also look at the other Cardinal Ingresses, noting the Progressed positions as well as the transits to the progressed angles. The Astro-Maps has a feature that allows one to do transits to a base chart. It is in the chart menu under subsequent charts. I progress the Ingress chart, note the progressed positions and then the transits. The Map picture is very informative. Sidereally, Bert Bert W. Fannin Western Sidereal Astrologer Location and Timing Astrology ltastrology www.ltastrology.com " Where you should be and when you should be there. " --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.717 / Virus Database: 473 - Release 7/8/2004 " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Bill Gwyn wrote: > Hi: > Speaking of Sidereal Ingress Charts I have been using them off and on > for many years and am wondering how others view them. I believe Garth > Allen wrote about them at length in the American Astrology magazine > way back when. Do others feel that the CapSolar ingress chart (which > sets up every year around Jan 15th) should give indications for the > entire year at a specified location or is it really necessary to use > the cardinal ingress closer to the event to see more meaningful > indicators. Hi Bill, Garth Allen's/Donald Bradley's use of 0 Cap, as you may already know, was based on the idea that it marked the Solar Apex, or the apparent direction the Sun is taking as it moves through the galaxy. The Sun, by the way, is moving at a rate of about 150 miles per second as it makes its 225 million year circuit of the galaxy. The Apex was thought to be somewhere between 26 Sag and 2 Cap circa 1960. Mr Allen attempted to define the sidereal zodiac without the use of the stars, because the stars have proper motion, or move very slightly over long periods of time. Even a 'fixed' zodiac is not devoid of motion. Aldebaran for instance has a proper motion of 3.62 seconds of longitudinal arc per century or about 1 degree every 100,000 years. Because the Apex has no proper motion, it was used by Allen in an attempt to define the starting point of the sidereal zodiac--that starting point would be 90* from the Apex. Since the Apex was not exactly determined, Cyril Fagan noted that this definition of the sidereal zodiac must be regarded as a temporary measure, until the Apex could be exactly determined. I believe this is the origin of the use of the CapSolar yearly chart--the direction of our Sun through the galaxy. Unfortunately, modern astronomy has placed the Solar Apex at close to 2* Cap Tropical!!! or around 7 Sag sidereal--so if we were to follow through on this original idea of Garth Allen, we would be calculating the yearly chart for December 22/23 instead of Jan 15/16. Despite the above more recent astronomical findings, I have nevertheless had some good results with the Cap Solar in past years. Best, Steve > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Steven Stuckey <shastrakara wrote: Despite the above more recent astronomical findings, I have nevertheless had some good results with the Cap Solar in past years. Why do you think that you have had good results with the Cap Solar? I ask this because you write that 7 Sag would seem to be the " logical position " to cast charts..... How do you explain the (in my opinion) remarkable results utilizing the Cap-Can-Ari and Lib Solars... I've seen everything from Columbine to earthquakes rationalized through these charts. Jivio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 At 12:43 PM 7/9/04 -0700, William Bussey wrote: >Hi: >Speaking of Sidereal Ingress Charts I have been using them off and on for many years and am wondering how others view them. I believe Garth Allen wrote about them at length in the American Astrology magazine way back when. Do others feel that the CapSolar ingress chart (which sets up every year around Jan 15th) should give indications for the entire year at a specified location or is it really necessary to use the cardinal ingress closer to the event to see more meaningful indicators. > >A good example is the Capsolar for 2001 set up for New York which seems to provide very little indication of the horrendous 9/11 terrorist attack on the WTC. > >Any comments appreciated? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bill, I haven't used the Capsolar Ingress chart for an entire year. I really question that concept, but it's an accepted sidereal doctrine. Personally I don't see how it's possible that one chart would describe all the major and minor events at a locale for an entire year. You'd have to be God to figure it all out and predict any major events ahead of time. Then it can get very messy if you add the other cardinals on top of the Capsolar, and then add the other solar ingresses as well and then progress all of them. With all those charts you could see anything you wanted to. The 9-11 Cansolar works out exceptionally well. But they all don't turn out that way. Did any sidereal astrologer see 9-11 in advance from the Cansolar? And how to pinpoint the exact time of the event beforehand? The validity of an ingress chart rests on the ability to predict events rather than see them only in retrospect. I've found the monthly ingress charts and transits to these charts much more striking. An example is the (Krishnamurti) Leo ingress before 9-11. I'll try to post something on that chart soon. I see that today Juan Oliver has posted an interpretation of the Fagan-Bradley cardinal ingress prior to 9-11. Donald Bradley had a lot of original ideas, but he didn't live long enough to adequately test the concepts he considered. No one since has really subjected his ideas to careful research. If Bradley said something....well, we still need to test his theories. A striking example or two or three do not an infallible doctrine make. There has to be some kind of consistency over time with similar events. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Juan Oliver wrote: > > Why do you think that you have had good results with the Cap Solar? > > I ask this because you write that 7 Sag would seem to be the " logical > position " to cast charts..... How do you explain the (in my opinion) > remarkable results utilizing the Cap-Can-Ari and Lib Solars... I've > seen everything from Columbine to earthquakes rationalized through > these charts. Hi Juan, A good question--I wish I had an answer for it!! Perhaps you have one of your own. Logic of course, may not have to necessarily enter into it....:>)) The measurements of Professors Vyssotsky and Van de Kamp in 1960 were very close to 0 Cap sidereal and the criteria that Allen followed. It seems amazing they could be that far off. I used to think as did Allen, it was tied to the Apex--that made some sort of sense. Several years ago I was informed otherwise, i.e. the more recent location of the Apex--it took the wind out of my Cap Solar sails. The cardinal signs in tropical of course, tied to the equinox's and solstices also makes sense--but the cardinal sidereal ingress?.... There has been talk of a binary twin to our Sun, as we have observed other binary systems in the universe--maybe this is in the direction of 0 Cap??? Grasping at straws, Steve > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Hi William, In the 2001 CapSolar Ingresswith little upon the angles I go into the interior of the map to find planets referenced out by the angles. There are always the four A/M midpoints. This Mars conjoins by 14' and squares Mercury-Uranus, even Mercury/Uranus = Mars...and further, Mercury-Neptune/Uranus = Mars. Violence at the hand of others. Neptune-Black Moon, deception and lies. Jupiter/Saturn = ASC-Node-TransPluto-Vertex...many buildings, a city, real estate, disruption, daunting force, the environment of application. See Venus-MC square Pluto and Moon 135 Uranus. ASC 45 & 135 contacts. Pluto-Node activated for common tragic destiny of many. I do not know why Rahu here conjoins George Bush's Sun. I do not know why the Mercury-Neptune-Black Moon throng George Bush's DSC. The previous Eclipse is always put in all charts. This was at 25 Taurus and on the EP, i.e., the ascendant of the Meridian chart. Almanakers Beware... Dark*Star ---------------- Bill Gwyn wrote: > A good example is the Capsolar for 2001 set up for New York which seems to provide very little indication of the horrendous 9/11 terrorist attack on the WTC. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 , Steven Stuckey <shastrakara@s...> wrote: > > > Garth Allen's/Donald Bradley's use of 0 Cap, as you may already know, > was based on the idea that it marked the Solar Apex, or the apparent > direction the Sun is taking as it moves through the galaxy. The Sun, by > the way, is moving at a rate of about 150 miles per second as it makes > its 225 million year circuit of the galaxy. > > The Apex was thought to be somewhere between 26 Sag and 2 Cap circa > 1960. > Mr Allen attempted to define the sidereal zodiac without the use of the > stars, because the stars have proper motion, or move very slightly over > long periods of time. > Even a 'fixed' zodiac is not devoid of motion. Aldebaran for instance > has a proper motion of 3.62 seconds of longitudinal arc per century or > about 1 degree every 100,000 years. > > Because the Apex has no proper motion, it was used by Allen in an > attempt to define the starting point of the sidereal zodiac--that > starting point would be 90* from the Apex. Since the Apex was not > exactly determined, Cyril Fagan noted that this definition of the > sidereal zodiac must be regarded as a temporary measure, until the Apex > could be exactly determined. > > I believe this is the origin of the use of the CapSolar yearly > chart--the direction of our Sun through the galaxy. Unfortunately, > modern astronomy has placed the Solar Apex at close to 2* Cap > Tropical!!! or around 7 Sag sidereal--so if we were to follow through on > this original idea of Garth Allen, we would be calculating the yearly > chart for December 22/23 instead of Jan 15/16. > > > Despite the above more recent astronomical findings, I have nevertheless > had some good results with the Cap Solar in past years. > > > Best, > > Steve ---------------- Steve, Bill, and All, I would recommend re-reading the " Ingress " file in Sidereal.zip for Bradley's own telling of how he came to look at the Cap ingresses as the main indicators. I think you've confused his discussions of the Solar Apex as a possible sidereal fiducial with his evaluations of a lot of ingress charts. I still have no " rationale " as to why the Cap seems to be the stronger indicator, but even in the *Primer* section on Mundane, Charles Carter's influence on the choice is mentioned. Carter used the equinox and solstice charts, but found himself that the Winter Solstice seemed to be more indicative of the year than the Vernal Equinox. I still look at Equinox and Solstice charts as well as the Sidereal Ingresses; I've found them to respond to quotidian progressions for timing as well. Sidereally yours, Matthew P.S. Hi, Bill, long time no.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 D* What ayanamsa and which house system are you utilizing? Jivio Dark Star <pansophia wrote: Hi William, In the 2001 CapSolar Ingresswith little upon the angles I go into the interior of the map to find planets referenced out by the angles. There are always the four A/M midpoints. This Mars conjoins by 14' and squares Mercury-Uranus, even Mercury/Uranus = Mars...and further, Mercury-Neptune/Uranus = Mars. Violence at the hand of others. Neptune-Black Moon, deception and lies. Jupiter/Saturn = ASC-Node-TransPluto-Vertex...many buildings, a city, real estate, disruption, daunting force, the environment of application. See Venus-MC square Pluto and Moon 135 Uranus. ASC 45 & 135 contacts. Pluto-Node activated for common tragic destiny of many. I do not know why Rahu here conjoins George Bush's Sun. I do not know why the Mercury-Neptune-Black Moon throng George Bush's DSC. The previous Eclipse is always put in all charts. This was at 25 Taurus and on the EP, i.e., the ascendant of the Meridian chart. Almanakers Beware... Dark*Star ---------------- Bill Gwyn wrote: > A good example is the Capsolar for 2001 set up for New York which seems to provide very little indication of the horrendous 9/11 terrorist attack on the WTC. > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 Fagan..Placidian. D* ============ Juan Oliver wrote: > D* > > What ayanamsa and which house system are you utilizing? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 , Therese Hamilton <eastwest@s...> wrote: > At 12:43 PM 7/9/04 -0700, William Bussey wrote: > >Hi: (...) > Bill, >(...) > I (...)Did any sidereal astrologer see 9-11 in advance from the > Cansolar? RN: Did any Vedic astrologer? And how to pinpoint the exact time of the event beforehand? The > validity of an ingress chart rests on the ability to predict events rather > than see them only in retrospect. > RN: Was this done by ANY Vedic astrologer? If so, why doesn't everyone know of this astrologer? > I've found the monthly ingress charts and transits to these charts much > more striking. An example is the (Krishnamurti) Leo ingress before 9-11. RN: Why didn't you predict that event for that location at that time? >(...) > > Donald Bradley had a lot of original ideas, but he didn't live long enough > to adequately test the concepts he considered. No one since has really > subjected his ideas to careful research. If Bradley said something....well, > we still need to test his theories. A striking example or two or three do > not an infallible doctrine make. RN: The same holds true for monthly ingress charts or the use of a different ayanamsa, does it not? I would not call 10 or even 20 examples compelling evidence of anything. There has to be some kind of consistency > over time with similar events. > RN: Amen. > Therese Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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