Guest guest Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 Dear Elisabeth These dates and times are transmitted from former official papers.Alan Leo and Fowlers have collected many dates. Also Wymiss sofar I remember. There are astrologers who sometimes used Noon time; the mode Joindro is published too as a alternative(the sun placed at the first sector.Most famous men and women of great intelligence level knew about astrology and sometimes studied it as a source to understand more of life. Since the difference between tropical and sidereal zodiac is growing more and more. Mistakes in delination are growing too, but the dates which are published are fairly well now. At least I expect that; not one astrologer forgets to inform him/herself as best as possible. You will learn more, is my experience, from events. There happens so much nowadays. The Library offers much too. Secondhand shops have sometimes interesting biographic books for study. Succes! Anny -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Verzonden: maandag 3 maart 2003 11:19 Aan: Onderwerp: Digest Number 489 " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / ------ There is 1 message in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Question About Birth Times " yehenara_00 <yehenara_00 " <yehenara_00 ______________________ ______________________ Message: 1 Mon, 03 Mar 2003 04:01:32 -0000 " yehenara_00 <yehenara_00 " <yehenara_00 Question About Birth Times Hi, I've been on this list for about a month but have never posted before. My question does not relate specifically to Sidereal Astrology, but since I only to Sidereal astrology lists, I thought I might as well post my question here. I wonder if anyone can help me. I happen to be interested in looking at the birth charts (I'm not an astrologer, though) of many famous people who were born a hundred or several hundred years ago. I have a problem finding the birth times for many of them, and yet I often see charts done for them by astrologers, so their birth times must be known somehow. But I read on the AstroDataBank site that people did not begin to officially record birth times until around the 18th century or later. So I wonder, how do astrologers get the birth times for famous people born before the 18th century, like for people such as Joan of Arc or Galileo? At the moment I am particularly interested in knowing the accurate birth time for the 17th century philosopher, Rene Descartes. I searched on the net, and in several places his birth time is shown as 2 a.m. or 2:15 a.m. The Mission Astrology Group has his Rising Sign in Sagittarius, which would also mean approximately 2 a.m. The problem is that I can't find the source for this birth data and whether it is reliable. I was surprised that Descartes' birth time is actually known, because from his biographies I got the impression that even his birth date (31 March, 1596) would have been uncertain had it not been for a portrait with his birth date (no birth time) inscribed on it, revealed only after his death (he concealed his birth date when he was alive). Even the place of his birth is in dispute. So maybe you can see why I am so surprised that some astrologers seem to know the *hour* of his birth. I would like to find out if 2 a.m. is the accurate birth time, and where astrologers actually found it, but I don't know how to go about doing this. Also, can anyone tell me a bit about the methods that astrologers use to find out birth times of famous people who existed hundreds of years ago? I had a theory: when the birthdate of a famous person is known but the time unknown, astrologers draw up a chart based on what the astrologer thinks would be logical for the famous person in question, and then base the time on the resulting chart. Is such a thing done? I notice that in Descartes' chart, based on the 2a.m. birthtime, a huge stellium is in the Third House. Is it possible that his birthdate is really not known, but astrologers simply guessed 2a.m. because that would put his stellium in the Third House, which corresponds to Gemini, and therefore would seem to explain the man who said the famous words " I think, therefore I am " ? Elisabeth ______________________ ______________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 >Message: 1 > Mon, 03 Mar 2003 04:01:32 -0000 > " yehenara_00 <yehenara_00 " <yehenara_00 >Question About Birth Times > >Hi, I've been on this list for about a month but have never posted >before. My question does not relate specifically to Sidereal >Astrology, but since I only to Sidereal astrology lists, I >thought I might as well post my question here. I wonder if anyone >can help me. > >I happen to be interested in looking at the birth charts (I'm not an >astrologer, though) of many famous people who were born a hundred or >several hundred years ago. I have a problem finding the birth times >for many of them, and yet I often see charts done for them by >astrologers, so their birth times must be known somehow. But I read >on the AstroDataBank site that people did not begin to officially >record birth times until around the 18th century or later. So I >wonder, how do astrologers get the birth times for famous people born >before the 18th century, like for people such as Joan of Arc or >Galileo? > >At the moment I am particularly interested in knowing the accurate >birth time for the 17th century philosopher, Rene Descartes. I >searched on the net, and in several places his birth time is shown as >2 a.m. or 2:15 a.m. The Mission Astrology Group has his Rising Sign >in Sagittarius, which would also mean approximately 2 a.m. The >problem is that I can't find the source for this birth data and >whether it is reliable. I was surprised that Descartes' birth time >is actually known, because from his biographies I got the impression >that even his birth date (31 March, 1596) would have been uncertain >had it not been for a portrait with his birth date (no birth time) >inscribed on it, revealed only after his death (he concealed his >birth date when he was alive). Even the place of his birth is in >dispute. So maybe you can see why I am so surprised that some >astrologers seem to know the *hour* of his birth. I would like to >find out if 2 a.m. is the accurate birth time, and where astrologers >actually found it, but I don't know how to go about doing this. > >Also, can anyone tell me a bit about the methods that astrologers use >to find out birth times of famous people who existed hundreds of >years ago? I had a theory: when the birthdate of a famous person is >known but the time unknown, astrologers draw up a chart based on what >the astrologer thinks would be logical for the famous person in >question, and then base the time on the resulting chart. Is such a >thing done? I notice that in Descartes' chart, based on the 2a.m. >birthtime, a huge stellium is in the Third House. Is it possible >that his birthdate is really not known, but astrologers simply >guessed 2a.m. because that would put his stellium in the Third >House, which corresponds to Gemini, and therefore would seem to >explain the man who said the famous words " I think, therefore I am " ? > >Elisabeth E, The source of the 2:00 AM birthtime is Marc Penfield, The Penfield Collection. It is listed as 'C Data' in the Rodden rating system. Jack Sirildo Contreras Western Sidereal Astrologer Mission Astrology Group (MAG) http://users.cwnet.com/~sidereal/mag/degrees/sadeg.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Thanks very much, Jack and Anny. Elisabeth > E, > > The source of the 2:00 AM birthtime is Marc Penfield, The Penfield > Collection. > It is listed as 'C Data' in the Rodden rating system. > > Jack Sirildo Contreras > Western Sidereal Astrologer > Mission Astrology Group (MAG) > http://users.cwnet.com/~sidereal/mag/degrees/sadeg.htm--- In , " Anny van Berckel " <avbdk@x> wrote: > > Dear Elisabeth > > These dates and times are transmitted from former > official papers.Alan Leo and Fowlers have collected many > dates. Also Wymiss sofar I remember. There are astrologers > who sometimes used Noon time; the mode Joindro is published > too as a alternative(the sun placed at the first sector.Most > famous men and women of great intelligence level knew about > astrology and sometimes studied it as a source to understand > more of life. Since the difference between tropical and sidereal > zodiac is growing more and more. Mistakes in delination are > growing too, but the dates which are published are fairly well > now. At least I expect that; not one astrologer forgets to > inform him/herself as best as possible. > You will learn more, is my experience, from events. > There happens so much nowadays. The Library offers much too. > Secondhand shops have sometimes interesting biographic books > for study. Succes! > Anny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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