Question About Birth Times

[Guest guest]

Hi, I've been on this list for about a month but have never posted

before. My question does not relate specifically to Sidereal

Astrology, but since I only to Sidereal astrology lists, I

thought I might as well post my question here. I wonder if anyone

can help me.

 

I happen to be interested in looking at the birth charts (I'm not an

astrologer, though) of many famous people who were born a hundred or

several hundred years ago. I have a problem finding the birth times

for many of them, and yet I often see charts done for them by

astrologers, so their birth times must be known somehow. But I read

on the AstroDataBank site that people did not begin to officially

record birth times until around the 18th century or later. So I

wonder, how do astrologers get the birth times for famous people born

before the 18th century, like for people such as Joan of Arc or

Galileo?

 

At the moment I am particularly interested in knowing the accurate

birth time for the 17th century philosopher, Rene Descartes. I

searched on the net, and in several places his birth time is shown as

2 a.m. or 2:15 a.m. The Mission Astrology Group has his Rising Sign

in Sagittarius, which would also mean approximately 2 a.m. The

problem is that I can't find the source for this birth data and

whether it is reliable. I was surprised that Descartes' birth time

is actually known, because from his biographies I got the impression

that even his birth date (31 March, 1596) would have been uncertain

had it not been for a portrait with his birth date (no birth time)

inscribed on it, revealed only after his death (he concealed his

birth date when he was alive). Even the place of his birth is in

dispute. So maybe you can see why I am so surprised that some

astrologers seem to know the *hour* of his birth. I would like to

find out if 2 a.m. is the accurate birth time, and where astrologers

actually found it, but I don't know how to go about doing this.

 

Also, can anyone tell me a bit about the methods that astrologers use

to find out birth times of famous people who existed hundreds of

years ago? I had a theory: when the birthdate of a famous person is

known but the time unknown, astrologers draw up a chart based on what

the astrologer thinks would be logical for the famous person in

question, and then base the time on the resulting chart. Is such a

thing done? I notice that in Descartes' chart, based on the 2a.m.

birthtime, a huge stellium is in the Third House. Is it possible

that his birthdate is really not known, but astrologers simply

guessed 2a.m. because that would put his stellium in the Third

House, which corresponds to Gemini, and therefore would seem to

explain the man who said the famous words " I think, therefore I am " ?

 

Elisabeth