Guest guest Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 This is my first time to join in a conversation here, although I introduced myself a little while back. My main area of interest is the birth charts of individuals, and since Therese brought up the subject of the Moon's Nodes in quake charts, I wondered if anyone out there has a pretty good grasp on the meaning of Rahu and Ketu in birth charts, especially when conjunct Moon, Sun, or asc. I have some ideas myself. For instance, I've noticed that NN, or Rahu, is often prominent in the horiscopes of cult leaders, so that would have to say something about its effect on the personality or the psyche. Anyone? .... Bettina Therese Hamilton [eastwest] Tuesday, March 02, 2004 10:02 AM RE: Moon's Nodes At 01:24 PM 3/2/04 +0100, Anny wrote: > Formerly I learned from a noted lady astrologer in Holland >in her astro magazine, that the moonnode's place and aspect would be >interesting in the charts of the people involved in the drama with >death following. It is a drama-en-masse-point. That interesting, Anny, because the Moon's nodes seem to be prominent in most quake charts, more often than not by their placement on angles or via close relationship with tight aspect configurations. According to Jyotish the nodes only make trine aspects besides the conjunction to planets. I don't know where that idea came from, but in the San Francisco 1906 ingress and quake charts, NN is trine the ascendant with a one degree orb. The orb in the F-B ingress chart is wider, a little over 3 degrees. In the Kanto quake the nodes are at the zenith/nadir (K ingress) and at the MC/IC in the quake chart, same degree as the MC. In the India quake ingress, NN is trine the ascendant; in the quake chart NN is trine Uranus/Moon in the first house foreground. Izmit, Turkey: nodes are right on the F-B ingress Asc/Dec and square the K ingress MC/IC; In the quake chart the Nodes are with the oppostion of Mercury-Uranus (which are square Jupiter/Saturn). This says something about the Sun-Moon-earth stress during earthquakes. It also says that the nodes are important in astrology, perhaps especially with public events that affect many people. It would be a good idea to test the mean/true nodes in quake charts for closeness of aspect to angles and planets. The authors of the Betz Lahiri Ephemeris (1940-2040) says that neither the mean nor true node is exactly correct: " ...The truth is the position of the node is really known only when the moon is on the ecliptic plane which happens twice every revolution of the moon around the earth. The position of the moon's node at other times is arguable but it seems ot us its motion should be as smooth as possible whle assuring that the values for its position exactly conform to the position of the moon when it passes through the ecliptic. " (page 3) The Betz Ephemeris is available from astroamerica.com. It's nice to have all those years in one book, but the text is compressed, and I have to use a magnifying glass to see the figures clearly. I have the book as a backup in the event that computers go down due to world electrical blackouts. The Betz ephemeris uses interpolated values for the nodes. I've generally found the mean nodes to be more accurate, but I have no research to back up that opinion, only a hazy memory of working with horoscopes. Therese " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / ---------- -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 I know of 2 people with Rahu (Moon's North Node) conjunct the Sun who have both had run-ins with the law. I know 2 people with it cnj. Moon who have also been in trouble; one of them not with the law per se, but who lost a job by flagrently violating the rules of the company she worked for. This instinct of Rahu also seems to have to do with breaking the laws of nature, not just the laws of the land. One woman I knew with the Sun/Rahu cnj. wouldn't seek medical help when she had cancer, as she was sure that a Hindu holy man she followed would heal her. As a result, she died. There is a certain largeness about Rahu, but not the same kind of largeness we associate with Jupiter. People with it on the asc. can even be unusually physically large. It's a kind of boundry-less-ness where the makeup of the psyche is such that the people don't believe that rules apply to them. Of course, whether or not this is used in a strictly destructive way depends on other influences as well. I remember noting a few years back that several well known cult leaders had prominent Rahus, but I have to go back and find that information before I can say anything about it here. Bettina zqh_elisabeth [zqh_elisabeth] Monday, March 08, 2004 12:15 PM Re: Moon's Nodes , " Bettina " <chiria@n...> wrote: > This is my first time to join in a conversation here, although I introduced > myself a little while back. My main area of interest is the birth charts of > individuals, and since Therese brought up the subject of the Moon's Nodes in > quake charts, I wondered if anyone out there has a pretty good grasp on the > meaning of Rahu and Ketu in birth charts, especially when conjunct Moon, > Sun, or asc. I have some ideas myself. For instance, I've noticed that NN, > or Rahu, is often prominent in the horiscopes of cult leaders, so that would > have to say something about its effect on the personality or the psyche. > > Anyone? > > > ... Bettina I don't know much about Rahu and Ketu, so I went and read up a little bit on them. It seems to me that this is the difference. Rahu is worldly, ambitious (likes power), likes to get out there and achieve things, and, as someone describes it, has a 'seizing' quality. Ketu is the opposite -- introspective, does not draw attention, and maybe spiritual, withdrawing from worldly things. Is this right? It'd be interesting to know a few examples of people who have either prominent Rahu or Ketu. Elisabeth " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / ---------- -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Hi Chris, I always thought it the index of his pantheism...Mercury 10th trine Ketu with Rahu in the 8th-of-mysteries-of-the-universe...his surrendering of indivuality to experiencing the whole. What interests me all of a sudden from your post is what astrological parsing for his failure to find a Unifying Theorem? Dark*Star Christopher Kevill wrote: > Here's an example: Einstein had Ketu aspecting his Mercury in Pisces. Many > would say this accounts for his keen powers of perception and usual and > brilliant intelligence, with even some of his early learning problems thrown > in for good measure. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Here's an example: Einstein had Ketu aspecting his Mercury in Pisces. Many would say this accounts for his keen powers of perception and usual and brilliant intelligence, with even some of his early learning problems thrown in for good measure. - " zqh_elisabeth " <zqh_elisabeth Monday, March 08, 2004 11:14 AM Re: Moon's Nodes > , " Bettina " <chiria@n...> > wrote: > > This is my first time to join in a conversation here, although I > introduced > > myself a little while back. My main area of interest is the birth > charts of > > individuals, and since Therese brought up the subject of the Moon's > Nodes in > > quake charts, I wondered if anyone out there has a pretty good > grasp on the > > meaning of Rahu and Ketu in birth charts, especially when conjunct > Moon, > > Sun, or asc. I have some ideas myself. For instance, I've noticed > that NN, > > or Rahu, is often prominent in the horiscopes of cult leaders, so > that would > > have to say something about its effect on the personality or the > psyche. > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > ... Bettina > > > I don't know much about Rahu and Ketu, so I went and read up a little > bit on them. It seems to me that this is the difference. Rahu is > worldly, ambitious (likes power), likes to get out there and achieve > things, and, as someone describes it, has a 'seizing' quality. Ketu > is the opposite -- introspective, does not draw attention, and maybe > spiritual, withdrawing from worldly things. Is this right? It'd be > interesting to know a few examples of people who have either > prominent Rahu or Ketu. > > Elisabeth > > > > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > / > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 I have also read that Rahu (NN) is comparable to Saturn, and Ketu (SN) to Mars, but that confuses me. Maybe as far as the way they work in external circumstances it's true, but not as far as the personality ... I don't think. For instance, Rahu is large, overextended, ignores guidelines, takes what it wants. It also has to do with fame and attention, though usually this is followed by downfall. That doesn't sound like Saturn ('tho SA in 10th can have to do with rise and downfall). SA generally has to do with humbleness, ordinariness, meagerness, lack in some area. Then ... Mars is bombastic, impulsive, fiery, aggressive. Ketu is supposed to be small, meek, invisible, diminished. I have read that the Western idea of the two is that Rahu is more like Jupiter ('tho it would most certainly have to be a very afflicted Jupiter) and Ketu like Saturn. Personality-wise, I could see that being true. But probably not event-wise. I'd like to ask a question. I think I recall from one of my Vedic books that Ketu throws a trine and Rahu a sextile (probably only forward), not that they both throw trines. Any one know more about this? I suppose the more spiritual aspect of Ketu would be egoless-ness. Then, the pure universal knowledge (or whatever) would flow into the personal mind. What would the more spiritual side of Rahu be? Or should I say, the more constructive or positive side? Bettina - [bettinaw] ----Original Message----- Therese Hamilton [eastwest] Monday, March 08, 2004 9:49 PM Re: Moon's Nodes At 07:14 PM 3/8/04 -0800, Chris wrote: >Here's an example: Einstein had Ketu aspecting his Mercury in Pisces. Many >would say this accounts for his keen powers of perception and usual and >brilliant intelligence, with even some of his early learning problems thrown >in for good measure. Hi Chris, This was a trine, wasn't it? Einstein had Mercury with Saturn in Pisces in a lunar mansion of Saturn. It seems that Ketu's aspect might have given a sharp intuitive edge to Mercury-Saturn--if Ketu is somewhat similar to Mars....? Therese " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Ahoy DS, Nice to hear your Ouija board musings again. As usual, I can't quite decipher your words. I guess I'll wait for the evolutionary development of telepathy before I plug in to your thoughts. Chris K - " Dark Star " <pansophia Monday, March 08, 2004 7:08 PM Re: Re: Moon's Nodes > > Hi Chris, > > I always thought it the index of his pantheism...Mercury 10th trine Ketu with > Rahu in the 8th-of-mysteries-of-the-universe...his surrendering of indivuality > to experiencing the whole. What interests me all of a sudden from your post is > what astrological parsing for his failure to find a Unifying Theorem? > > Dark*Star > > Christopher Kevill wrote: > > > Here's an example: Einstein had Ketu aspecting his Mercury in Pisces. Many > > would say this accounts for his keen powers of perception and usual and > > brilliant intelligence, with even some of his early learning problems thrown > > in for good measure. > > > > > > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > / > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Therese, Yes, a trine from Ketu to Mercury in Pisces. To me it can give heightened powers of intellect and discernment focused through Pisces' otherworldliness. Chris - " Therese Hamilton " <eastwest Monday, March 08, 2004 8:48 PM Re: Moon's Nodes > At 07:14 PM 3/8/04 -0800, Chris wrote: > >Here's an example: Einstein had Ketu aspecting his Mercury in Pisces. Many > >would say this accounts for his keen powers of perception and usual and > >brilliant intelligence, with even some of his early learning problems thrown > >in for good measure. > > Hi Chris, > > This was a trine, wasn't it? Einstein had Mercury with Saturn in Pisces in > a lunar mansion of Saturn. It seems that Ketu's aspect might have given a > sharp intuitive edge to Mercury-Saturn--if Ketu is somewhat similar to > Mars....? > > Therese > > > > > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > / > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 - " Bettina " <chiria Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:52 AM RE: Re: Moon's Nodes > I have also read that Rahu (NN) is comparable to Saturn, and Ketu (SN) to > Mars, but that confuses me. Yes, this is usually what they write in books. It's not that helpful. Ketu is more like Mars perhaps because it tends to bring quick or sudden events, whereas Rahu acts more slowly like Saturn. I have found outer planet similarities more helpful to give a thumbnail understanding of the vedic view. Rahu= Pluto + Uranus (power/material gains/revolutionary) Ketu = Neptune + Uranus. (spirituality/otherwordliness/sudden events) There are numerous exceptions to this formula, but it's a good starting point. Maybe as far as the way they work in external > circumstances it's true, but not as far as the personality ... I don't > think. For instance, Rahu is large, overextended, ignores guidelines, takes > what it wants. It also has to do with fame and attention, though usually > this is followed by downfall. That doesn't sound like Saturn ('tho SA in > 10th can have to do with rise and downfall). SA generally has to do with > humbleness, ordinariness, meagerness, lack in some area. Right. Your view of Rahu is correct -- it's questing, materialistic -- not really like Saturn at all. (that's why that usual view of Rahu being like Saturn is unhelpful). Gains made under Rahu's influence are often not held, but sometimes they will be, if Rahu comes under benefic influence in the natal chart. > Then ... Mars is bombastic, impulsive, fiery, aggressive. Ketu is supposed > to be small, meek, invisible, diminished. I have read that the Western idea > of the two is that Rahu is more like Jupiter ('tho it would most certainly > have to be a very afflicted Jupiter) and Ketu like Saturn. Ketu has a sense of Saturn in its asceticism. > Personality-wise, I could see that being true. But probably not event-wise. > > I'd like to ask a question. I think I recall from one of my Vedic books > that Ketu throws a trine and Rahu a sextile (probably only forward), not > that they both throw trines. Any one know more about this? > What books are you reading? Only trines. And some hard core vedic types deny the possibility of the nodes casting any aspects at all. But I have found trines have effects. > I suppose the more spiritual aspect of Ketu would be egoless-ness. Then, > the pure universal knowledge (or whatever) would flow into the personal > mind. What would the more spiritual side of Rahu be? Or should I say, the > more constructive or positive side? Rahu is usually seen as antithetical to spiritual truth. For example, people who have a Jupiter aspected by Rahu natally have problems with gurus and do not adhere well to the spiritual path. Rahu is often cited in revolutionary science and research, however. so the theme here is breaking with tradition -- whatever it might be. Both nodes are usually seen as bad for living significations. ( health, children, etc). Either node in the 5th brings problems with children -- either sickness, bad delivery, abortions, or simply fewer progeny. Rahu is usually good for career and wealth, communication, etc. Ketu is more of a mixed bag with respect to career and wealth. For example, Ketu in the 2nd is often said to be bad for wealth generally however it can mean that wealth is acquired by unusual means, possibly having to do with spiritual enterprises. Chris > > > Bettina > - > [bettinaw] > > > ----Original Message----- > Therese Hamilton [eastwest] > Monday, March 08, 2004 9:49 PM > > Re: Moon's Nodes > > > At 07:14 PM 3/8/04 -0800, Chris wrote: > >Here's an example: Einstein had Ketu aspecting his Mercury in Pisces. > Many > >would say this accounts for his keen powers of perception and usual and > >brilliant intelligence, with even some of his early learning problems > thrown > >in for good measure. > > Hi Chris, > > This was a trine, wasn't it? Einstein had Mercury with Saturn in Pisces in > a lunar mansion of Saturn. It seems that Ketu's aspect might have given a > sharp intuitive edge to Mercury-Saturn--if Ketu is somewhat similar to > Mars....? > > Therese > > > > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > / > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 Hi Bettina, You can get around this impasse with Mars and Saturn (I don't like their assignment either) by thinking Uranus for Rahu...Neptune for Ketu. There is no sextile. I like to think of them both as having a trine _backwards. Parashara gives them aspects, no? And they did have to have some ruse to get into that soma party, i.e., the godly kingly trine step. The earliest assignment from Babylon appears to be Aries as exaltation of Rahu. Fagan said as much in _Zodiacs Old and New, missing what else was being said? But that doesn't keep me from using for Rahu ~ Virgo-exaltation at zero degrees-blind of eyes, Rahu seeks always the Intelligence of Earth. Capricorn-moolitrikona, special place, the Royal Throne of Capricorn Taurus-home. Ketu wants always Water...and its places are opposite from above. Juppiter Blessings, Dark*Star Bettina wrote: > I have also read that Rahu (NN) is comparable to Saturn, and Ketu (SN) to > Mars, but that confuses me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 Therese, Chris, and Dark*Star, thanks for the input. There seems to be disagreement about which are the good signs for the Nodes. I've even heard Taurus for Rahu (because it's the sign that has to do with acquiring, eating, taking in) and Scorpio for Ketu (having to do with elimination, giving out). So do you think that a trine from the nodes, with the trine being the Jupiterian aspect, is an aspect of ease which benefits the planet trined? The example of Einstein would make it seem that way. Bettina Dark Star [pansophia] Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:52 PM Re: Re: Moon's Nodes Hi Bettina, You can get around this impasse with Mars and Saturn (I don't like their assignment either) by thinking Uranus for Rahu...Neptune for Ketu. There is no sextile. I like to think of them both as having a trine _backwards. Parashara gives them aspects, no? And they did have to have some ruse to get into that soma party, i.e., the godly kingly trine step. The earliest assignment from Babylon appears to be Aries as exaltation of Rahu. Fagan said as much in _Zodiacs Old and New, missing what else was being said? But that doesn't keep me from using for Rahu ~ Virgo-exaltation at zero degrees-blind of eyes, Rahu seeks always the Intelligence of Earth. Capricorn-moolitrikona, special place, the Royal Throne of Capricorn Taurus-home. Ketu wants always Water...and its places are opposite from above. Juppiter Blessings, Dark*Star Bettina wrote: > I have also read that Rahu (NN) is comparable to Saturn, and Ketu (SN) to > Mars, but that confuses me. " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / ---------- -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 Therese, Thanks for the comment. Some interesting Rahu-Ketu stuff going on just now: Jim Caviezel 10/23/68 Mt. Vernon, Wash [no time]...whose natus promises to deliver a scourged avatar and king of the Jews; but Neptune squares...so it's only a phantasy, a movie role he plays in Mel Gibson's _Passion. Martha Stewart was born with Rahu on it's exaltation degree (I say), 0* Virgo conjoining Neptune in the 11th Placidian for great wealth. Her solar gives Rahu at 0*Taurus in the 8th for the death of great wealth. Although she has no planets in her natal or solar12th, there is solar Moon over her natal 12th. to go to jail, if not for long. And I judge her Pluto to have a phoenix quality down the road. Tropical astrologers will have missed Gemini Saturn on her solar MC last August which also pulled down her stockbroker. We must ask why she won't see Bush's friend, Ken Lay in the prison yard when she gets there. Dark*Star Therese Hamilton wrote: > I tend to see the nodes in the opposite way: Neptune for Rahu and Uranus > for Ketu. This is because Ketu seems definitely to be psychic in a > sometimes creepy way, whereas Rahu is sort of like the god Neptune--always > trying to expand its horizons and territory. > > Ah, but then, Rahu as Uranus would fit the likes of Charles Manson and Jim > Jones better. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 Good point, Therese, but did not JJ and CM try to expand their horizons? That's exactly what cult leaders do. If you think of Neptune as the ruler of Pisces and Uranus the ruler of Aquarius, you get a different picture of them from what's typically described. Pisces is changable, unpridictable, can be erratic (like the ocean). Aquarius is often quiet, dreamy, spacy. Tropical Pisces if always described as dreamy and otherworldy ... but most of that is covered by Sid. Aquarius ... so there you go ... it's ruled by Uranus ... which must be the dreamy one. Neptune must be the erratic, impulsive one. .... Bettina Therese Hamilton [eastwest] Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:24 PM Re: Moon's Nodes At 07:52 PM 3/9/04 -0800, Dark*Star wrote: > >Hi Bettina, > >You can get around this impasse with Mars and Saturn (I don't like their >assignment either) by thinking Uranus for Rahu...Neptune for Ketu. I tend to see the nodes in the opposite way: Neptune for Rahu and Uranus for Ketu. This is because Ketu seems definitely to be psychic in a sometimes creepy way, whereas Rahu is sort of like the god Neptune--always trying to expand its horizons and territory. Ah, but then, Rahu as Uranus would fit the likes of Charles Manson and Jim Jones better. Therese " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 Hi, Elisabeth ... I think that Neptune has to be the god of the ocean because, well, he has been since antiquity. I think Uranus has more to do with the ether. I can't really think of well known people whom I could use as examples, because all I know about famous people is what they're famous for doing and not that much about their personalities. All I can go by is some of my personal acquaintances, and I have known Aquariuses who seem the way I described in my last post. Also, they tend to not have strong egos, probably because it's a weak sign for the Sun, as it's opposite Leo, Sun's rulership sign. I agree with you that many of them are creative. I wouldn't neccessarilly say that they're impractical. They can be creative AND practical. There seems to be a softness about many of them, an un-worldliness, 'tho that would be contradicted by a strong Mars. I've also known Pisces people who are changable and unpredictable, or who make plans that make perfect sense to them, but seem impractical to others. Maybe they follow their whims, which seem logical to themselves. Of course, other influences in the horoscope can be stronger than the Sun sign. I think that the association with the signs that the planets are supposed to rule in the Tropical is how the outer planets got their reputations. .... Bettina [bettinaw] zqh_elisabeth [zqh_elisabeth] Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:15 PM Re: Moon's Nodes , " Bettina " <chiria@n...> wrote: > Good point, Therese, but did not JJ and CM try to expand their horizons? > That's exactly what cult leaders do. If you think of Neptune as the ruler > of Pisces and Uranus the ruler of Aquarius, you get a different picture of > them from what's typically described. Pisces is changable, unpridictable, > can be erratic (like the ocean). Aquarius is often quiet, dreamy, spacy. > Tropical Pisces if always described as dreamy and otherworldy ... but most > of that is covered by Sid. Aquarius ... so there you go ... it's ruled by > Uranus ... which must be the dreamy one. Neptune must be the erratic, > impulsive one. > > > ... Bettina Or maybe, despite the name, Uranus is really the god of the ocean in disguise and rules Pisces, and Neptune is some other mysterious god that rules Aquarius. How did the newer planets get associated with the qualities that they are associated with (e.g. Uranus and erratic, Neptune and dreamy)? Is it from how they are *observed* to behave or is it by association with the sign that they are supposed to rule? Also, can someone mention a few examples of some well-known sid. Aquarians who are " dreamy " and sid. Pisceans who are " impulsive " ? I haven't really noticed many examples of this just by looking at planets in signs. My impression of people with lots of planets in sid. Aquarius is that they are often very creative, intelligent, and humanitarian with strong empathy. But they also seem to be quite level-headed and have the ability to be practical, not particular spacey and dreamy. As for sid. Pisceans, I don't quite grasp them, except that they seem very troubled and unhappy, and forever disatisfied with the way things are, and they often don't do things according to the rules and conventions. But I wouldn't specifically describe them as impulsive. Sometimes the breaking of rules is quite deliberate with some subjective reason behind it. But I know that it is not enough to look at planets in signs, and the number of charts I've looked at is also small, so it's possible that what I see is just coincidence. I wonder, if an Aquarius person has the quality of dreaminess, or if a Pisces is very impulsive, how can we tell whether these qualities are the effect of the sign or of some other factors in the chart? elisabeth " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 Hi, Elisabeth ... When I think of the ocean I think of something that's not only vast, but unpredictable. It can be stormy or calm; changes can come up very rapidly; it can be completely still or have massive waves. If you're a sailor, or even someone who lives near the sea, it can be your friend one minute and claim your life the next. So it would make sense for it to be ruled by a planet that characterizes unpredictability and changability. I do think the old time rulers are the primary one for Aquarius and Pisces, though. Saturn does have to do with equality and democracy and therefore it makes the most sense as ruler of Aquarius. But the transSaturnians have some connection. Right you are about Sid. Leo / Trop. Virgo. It likes perfection, which is solar and not mercurian. Leos do tend to keep to themselves, not that they're loners, but they let other people come to them. They're not showy and bold as Cancers can be, so some people may think that they're humble. They're just very centered within themselves, like the Sun. .... Bettina zqh_elisabeth [zqh_elisabeth] Thursday, March 11, 2004 11:17 PM Re: Moon's Nodes Hi Bettina, , " Bettina " <chiria@n...> wrote: > I think that Neptune has to be the god of the ocean because, well, he has > been since antiquity. I think Uranus has more to do with the ether. Yes, definitely. The gods should stay where they are.:-) What I meant was that the planets could be misnamed. If planet Uranus is *observed* by astrologers to be erratic and unpredictable, it might (despite its name) be equal to the mythological god Neptune. But it depends on whether the reputation of the planets really come from observation. All I can go by is some of my > personal acquaintances, and I have known Aquariuses who seem the way I > described in my last post. Also, they tend to not have strong egos, > probably because it's a weak sign for the Sun, as it's opposite Leo, Sun's > rulership sign. I notice this as well, and it would seem to fit with the meaning of Aquarius as a sign associated with Saturn, brotherhood and equality.... If by contrast the opposite sign, sidereal Leo, has a strong ego because it is ruled by the sun, then this would seem to be at least one case in which the tropical sign description doesn't transfer well to the sidereal. Sidereal Leo is Tropical Virgo, yet the tropical description of Virgo as humble, self-effacing and insecure doesn't seem to fit sidereal Leo. > I think that the association with the signs that the planets are supposed to > rule in the Tropical is how the outer planets got their reputations. Thanks. I've always wondered about this. Elisabeth " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / ---------- -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Thanks, Therese. Hey, does anybody have thoughts they'd like to share about the uncoming presidential election in the USA now that we have it narrowed down to Kerry vs. Bush? I have to look over the charts myself. Run off the SRs, etc. Bettina Therese Hamilton [eastwest] Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:21 PM Re: Moon's Nodes At 06:30 PM 3/9/04 -0800, Chris (and Bettina) wrote: >Yes, this is usually what they write in books... > [bW] Maybe as far as the way they work in external >> circumstances it's true, but not as far as the personality ... I don't >> think. For instance, Rahu is large, overextended, ignores guidelines, >takes >> what it wants. It also has to do with fame and attention, though usually >> this is followed by downfall. That doesn't sound like Saturn ('tho SA in >> 10th can have to do with rise and downfall). SA generally has to do with >> humbleness, ordinariness, meagerness, lack in some area. > > >[CK] Right. Your view of Rahu is correct -- it's questing, materialistic -- not >really like Saturn at all. (that's why that usual view of Rahu being like >Saturn is unhelpful). Gains made under Rahu's influence are often not held, >but sometimes they will be, if Rahu comes under benefic influence in the >natal chart. > >>[bW] Then ... Mars is bombastic, impulsive, fiery, aggressive. Ketu is >supposed to be small, meek, invisible, diminished. I have read that the Western >idea of the two is that Rahu is more like Jupiter ('tho it would most certainly >> have to be a very afflicted Jupiter) and Ketu like Saturn. (...) >[CK] Rahu is usually seen as antithetical to spiritual truth. For example, >people who have a Jupiter aspected by Rahu natally have problems with gurus >and do not adhere well to the spiritual path. Rahu is often cited in >revolutionary science and research, however. so the theme here is breaking >with tradition -- whatever it might be. Both nodes are usually seen as bad >for living significations. ( health, children, etc). Either node in the >5th brings problems with children -- either sickness, bad delivery, >abortions, or simply fewer progeny. Rahu is usually good for career and >wealth, communication, etc. Ketu is more of a mixed bag with respect to >career and wealth. For example, Ketu in the 2nd is often said to be bad for >wealth generally however it can mean that wealth is acquired by unusual >means, possibly having to do with spiritual enterprises. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chris and Bettina, thanks for some really good thoughts here. Somehow this post passed me by and I only noticed it when going through my mailbox today. Therese " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / ---------- -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 Does any one have the data for Kerry? That would be necessary to do a proper assessment. Bert - " Bettina " <chiria Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:31 AM RE: Re: Moon's Nodes > Thanks, Therese. > > Hey, does anybody have thoughts they'd like to share about the uncoming > presidential election in the USA now that we have it narrowed down to Kerry > vs. Bush? > > I have to look over the charts myself. Run off the SRs, etc. > > > Bettina > > > > > Therese Hamilton [eastwest] > Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:21 PM > > Re: Moon's Nodes > > > At 06:30 PM 3/9/04 -0800, Chris (and Bettina) wrote: > >Yes, this is usually what they write in books... > > > [bW] Maybe as far as the way they work in external > >> circumstances it's true, but not as far as the personality ... I don't > >> think. For instance, Rahu is large, overextended, ignores guidelines, > >takes > >> what it wants. It also has to do with fame and attention, though > usually > >> this is followed by downfall. That doesn't sound like Saturn ('tho SA > in > >> 10th can have to do with rise and downfall). SA generally has to do > with > >> humbleness, ordinariness, meagerness, lack in some area. > > > > > >[CK] Right. Your view of Rahu is correct -- it's questing, materialistic > -- not > >really like Saturn at all. (that's why that usual view of Rahu being > like > >Saturn is unhelpful). Gains made under Rahu's influence are often not > held, > >but sometimes they will be, if Rahu comes under benefic influence in the > >natal chart. > > > >>[bW] Then ... Mars is bombastic, impulsive, fiery, aggressive. Ketu is > >supposed to be small, meek, invisible, diminished. I have read that the > Western > >idea of the two is that Rahu is more like Jupiter ('tho it would most > certainly > >> have to be a very afflicted Jupiter) and Ketu like Saturn. > (...) > >[CK] Rahu is usually seen as antithetical to spiritual truth. For > example, > >people who have a Jupiter aspected by Rahu natally have problems with > gurus > >and do not adhere well to the spiritual path. Rahu is often cited in > >revolutionary science and research, however. so the theme here is > breaking > >with tradition -- whatever it might be. Both nodes are usually seen as > bad > >for living significations. ( health, children, etc). Either node in the > > >5th brings problems with children -- either sickness, bad delivery, > >abortions, or simply fewer progeny. Rahu is usually good for career and > >wealth, communication, etc. Ketu is more of a mixed bag with respect to > >career and wealth. For example, Ketu in the 2nd is often said to be bad > for > >wealth generally however it can mean that wealth is acquired by unusual > >means, possibly having to do with spiritual enterprises. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Chris and Bettina, thanks for some really good thoughts here. Somehow this > post passed me by and I only noticed it when going through my mailbox > today. > > Therese > > > > > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > / > > > > -------- -- > -- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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