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>Juan Oliver wrote:

>

>> Why do you think that you have had good results with the Cap Solar?

>>

>> I ask this because you write that 7 Sag would seem to be the " logical

>> position " to cast charts..... How do you explain the (in my opinion)

>> remarkable results utilizing the Cap-Can-Ari and Lib Solars... I've

>> seen everything from Columbine to earthquakes rationalized through

>> these charts.

>

>Steve wrote:

>A good question--I wish I had an answer for it!! Perhaps you have one

>of your own. Logic of course, may not have to necessarily enter into it....:

 

>Grasping at straws...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Steve and all,

 

Since the Capsolar has never really been tested over time for similar

events, in reality it may not give better results than other types of

cyclic charts such as the equinox or monthly solar ingress charts. Some

brilliant hits could quite possibly be only chance.

 

Even Donald Bradley wrote that you could see an earthquake in charts using

even fictitions ayanamsas. The only final answer to any cyclic chart would

be controlled research over time, and astrologers are not equipped to

perform this kind of research. So 'to each his own' continues to be the

mode of operation in all the astrological camps, both tropical and

sidereal. There are even varying camps in Jyotish, though the Jyotish

astrologers all refer to the same ancient texts.

 

Therese

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Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote:

 

Since the Capsolar has never really been tested over time for similar

events,in reality it may not give better results than other types of

cyclic charts such as the equinox or monthly solar ingress charts.

 

 

 

Juan Oliver writes:

The CapSolar has been tested and utilized repeatedly for years.

However your stipulation " similar events " renders your assertion plausible. I

for one do not track " similar events " only. There may be others who do? I track

what the charts reveal... Whatever that might be... earthquake or windfall

profits....

 

" similar events " means? ('to each his own')...

 

The CapSolar(Cardinal Ingress Charts) are used with other charts... ie. lunar,

solar returns, as well as other planetary cyclical charts. The most important

forecasting " base " chart is the CapSolar.

 

I can think of six sidereal astrologers(Bert being one of them) that knows the

value of tracking sidereal cardinal ingress charts. I am sure there are others.

These individuals have repeatedly demonstrated credible results especially with

the CapSolar.

 

Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote:

 

The only final answer to any cyclic chart would

be controlled research over time, and astrologers are not equipped to

perform this kind of research.

 

Juan Oliver wrote:

Well we're stuck with us doing the " controlled " research because we are the the

only ones interested. We are the best equipped to do so since we have the

knowledge.... As for the " final answer " , it will be revealed to you at your

death and not a moment sooner. Keep in mind though that is not a statistical

fact.

 

Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote

 

So 'to each his own' continues to be the

mode of operation in all the astrological camps, both tropical and

sidereal. There are even varying camps in Jyotish, though the Jyotish

astrologers all refer to the same ancient texts.

 

 

Juan Oliver wrote: I don't share this perspective " to each his own " though I

understand everyone has an opinion. Too many numerous learning opportunities in

my life would have been missed had I formed a conclusion prior to testing the

waters. Can't fly the plane unless you fire up the engines.

 

>Juan Oliver wrote:

>

>> Why do you think that you have had good results with the Cap Solar?

>>

>Steve wrote:

>A good question--I wish I had an answer for it!! Perhaps you have one

>of your own. Logic of course, may not have to necessarily enter into it....:

 

 

 

Juan Oliver wrote:

 

It always seemed natural to me that the Solar Apex was associated with CapSolar

and it still does.. however we move on... Before I began studying Sidereal, I

was researching metaphysics and came across a book titled " the Light of Egypt " .

It was written by an individual around the 1900's who gave me a perspective on

Capricorn which I still hold on to today. Simply put... its the nadir of the

human zodiacal cycle... the author writes " It is the lowest arc of the cycle

that reveals the new birth of death unto life.

 

The CapSolar seemed like a natural....All bets are off though as far as the

Southern Hemisphere are concerned... haven't done the research(experience) to

say yea or nay....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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At 10:17 PM 7/10/04 -0700, Juan wrote:

>The CapSolar has been tested and utilized repeatedly for years.

 

Not in any controlled way. Only individual astrologers using it for single

events.

 

>However your stipulation " similar events " renders your assertion

plausible. I for one do not track " similar events " only. There may be

others who do?

 

I'm working on it, but mostly astrologers haven't look at similar events

over many yearss time.

 

> " similar events " means? ('to each his own')...

 

Like 50 major earthquake or 50 major floods. For starters.

 

>>I can think of six sidereal astrologers(Bert being one of them) that

knows the value of tracking sidereal cardinal ingress charts. I am sure

there are others. These individuals have repeatedly demonstrated credible

results especially with the CapSolar.

 

For real research, demonstrating that the Capsolar works for isolated

events doesn't tell the entire story. Astrologers also have to show that

the major indicators don't occur when **nothing** happens. This is the

problem, and why Donald Bradley said that quakes could be seen in charts

with a fictitions ayanamsa. The question still is: Can you predict with the

Capsolar? What party will be in the White House when January rolls around?

When will a major traumatic event (quake?) hit California? And so on. (You

couldn't answer that one without checking quakes in the past and cataloging

what was going on at the time.)

 

>>Well we're stuck with us doing the " controlled " research because we are

the the only ones interested.

 

It may be that one day a math professional might join forces with us.

Bradley made a start in that direction, but the guy he was working with

inconveniently died.

 

>The CapSolar seemed like a natural....All bets are off though as far as

the Southern >Hemisphere are concerned... haven't done the

research(experience) to say yea or nay....

 

It wouldn't be too difficult to compare the fall equinox charts (Tropical

Capricorn) with the Capsolars for a few years, checking major events.

 

Therese

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Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote:

At 10:17 PM 7/10/04 -0700, Juan wrote:

>The CapSolar has been tested and utilized repeatedly for years.

 

Not in any controlled way. Only individual astrologers using it for single

events.

 

 

Control? Open to interpretation and accessible with knowledge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

>However your stipulation " similar events " renders your assertion

plausible. I for one do not track " similar events " only. There may be

others who do? I track what the charts reveal...

 

I'm working on it, but mostly astrologers haven't look at similar events

over many yearss time.

 

 

You're working your agenda.... and I hope you find it. Astrologers look at what

cause " similar events " . They also simply look at what the symbols tell them. In

other words, They read the script and document " similar events " .

 

 

> " similar events " means? ('to each his own')...

 

Like 50 major earthquake or 50 major floods. For starters.

 

 

When you cast a cardinal ingress chart it is done for a particular location.

NYC, Washington or Bagdad for instance... These charts allow the astrologer to

forecast events for the upcoming year. How many charts would one have to cast to

determine when and where 50 major earthquakes or 50 major floods would occur?

Keep in mind that these charts are not just cast zodiacal but also in mundo....

Also keep in mind that typically every disaster has its own unique personality.

 

 

>>I can think of six sidereal astrologers(Bert being one of them) that

knows the value of tracking sidereal cardinal ingress charts. I am sure

there are others. These individuals have repeatedly demonstrated credible

results especially with the CapSolar.

 

For real research, demonstrating that the Capsolar works for isolated

events doesn't tell the entire story. Astrologers also have to show that

the major indicators don't occur when **nothing** happens.

 

Astrologers are not responsible for showing anything except reality... ...

Granted astrologers can have good days and/or bad days.... I have never

witnessed the planets screw up.... Their interpretation... well that's another

story.... When humans operate machinery you gotta expect screw-ups.....

 

This is the

problem, and why Donald Bradley said that quakes could be seen in charts

with a fictitions ayanamsa.

 

The problem with quoting someone is that one never really knows in what context

they were speaking. If Bradley were here today, do you think he would be running

CapSolars or running them down?

 

 

 

The question still is: Can you predict with the

Capsolar? What party will be in the White House when January rolls around?

When will a major traumatic event (quake?) hit California? And so on. (You

couldn't answer that one without checking quakes in the past and cataloging

what was going on at the time.)

 

 

 

Logic dictates that one learns how to read a chart. That is done by learning

what the symbols mean and how they interact with themselves. That is how one

determines the potential of quakes by learning how the symbols(planets & angles)

acted during times of past quakes. No one disputes that.... The best place to

look for potential quakes is when you first view the cardinal ingress charts.

 

One can predict with the Capsolar! The November election? Simply check the

cardinal ingress charts with the principals involved.

Be sure to look at Dubya's Solar for 2004 & 2005.....

 

As for what party in January rolls in the White House? Imagine they're white!

 

 

>>Well we're stuck with us doing the " controlled " research because we are

the the only ones interested.

 

It may be that one day a math professional might join forces with us.

Bradley made a start in that direction, but the guy he was working with

inconveniently died.

 

 

The world would revolve with the aid of one math professor....

 

 

 

 

>The CapSolar seemed like a natural....All bets are off though as far as

the Southern >Hemisphere are concerned... haven't done the

research(experience) to say yea or nay....

 

It wouldn't be too difficult to compare the fall equinox charts (Tropical

Capricorn) with the Capsolars for a few years, checking major events.

 

Therese

 

Ah... you don't know CapSolars.....

 

Jivio

 

PS: Therese... From your own account... you have not run cardinal ingress charts

in the manner I have suggested. Your comparing them to any other type of chart

is without merit until you have tested the process. Of course it will require

the use of progressions.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Juan:

That is what the Astro-map is for. It allows you to cast only one chart

and have an over view of the world from the focus of a particular ingress.

Note what Matthiew did with the Cansolar and 911.

 

Sidereally,

Bert

Bert W. Fannin

Western Sidereal Astrologer

Location and Timing Astrology

ltastrology

www.ltastrology.com

" Where you should be and when you should be there. "

 

 

_______

 

-

" Juan Oliver " <jivio

 

Monday, July 12, 2004 1:25 AM

Re: Re: More on CapSolar Ingress Charts

 

 

>

>

> Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote:

> At 10:17 PM 7/10/04 -0700, Juan wrote:

> >The CapSolar has been tested and utilized repeatedly for years.

>

> Not in any controlled way. Only individual astrologers using it for single

> events.

>

>

> Control? Open to interpretation and accessible with knowledge.

>However your stipulation " similar events " renders your assertion

> plausible. I for one do not track " similar events " only. There may be

> others who do? I track what the charts reveal...

>

> I'm working on it, but mostly astrologers haven't look at similar events

> over many yearss time.

>

>

> You're working your agenda.... and I hope you find it. Astrologers look at

what cause " similar events " . They also simply look at what the symbols tell

them. In other words, They read the script and document " similar events " .

>

>

> > " similar events " means? ('to each his own')...

>

> Like 50 major earthquake or 50 major floods. For starters.

>

>

> When you cast a cardinal ingress chart it is done for a particular

location. NYC, Washington or Bagdad for instance... These charts allow the

astrologer to forecast events for the upcoming year. How many charts would

one have to cast to determine when and where 50 major earthquakes or 50

major floods would occur? Keep in mind that these charts are not just cast

zodiacal but also in mundo.... Also keep in mind that typically every

disaster has its own unique personality.

>

>

> >>I can think of six sidereal astrologers(Bert being one of them) that

> knows the value of tracking sidereal cardinal ingress charts. I am sure

> there are others. These individuals have repeatedly demonstrated credible

> results especially with the CapSolar.

>

> For real research, demonstrating that the Capsolar works for isolated

> events doesn't tell the entire story. Astrologers also have to show that

> the major indicators don't occur when **nothing** happens.

>

> Astrologers are not responsible for showing anything except reality... ...

Granted astrologers can have good days and/or bad days.... I have never

witnessed the planets screw up.... Their interpretation... well that's

another story.... When humans operate machinery you gotta expect

screw-ups.....

>

> This is the

> problem, and why Donald Bradley said that quakes could be seen in charts

> with a fictitions ayanamsa.

>

> The problem with quoting someone is that one never really knows in what

context they were speaking. If Bradley were here today, do you think he

would be running CapSolars or running them down?

>

>

>

> The question still is: Can you predict with the

> Capsolar? What party will be in the White House when January rolls around?

> When will a major traumatic event (quake?) hit California? And so on. (You

> couldn't answer that one without checking quakes in the past and

cataloging

> what was going on at the time.)

>

>

>

> Logic dictates that one learns how to read a chart. That is done by

learning what the symbols mean and how they interact with themselves. That

is how one determines the potential of quakes by learning how the

symbols(planets & angles) acted during times of past quakes. No one disputes

that.... The best place to look for potential quakes is when you first view

the cardinal ingress charts.

>

> One can predict with the Capsolar! The November election? Simply check

the cardinal ingress charts with the principals involved.

> Be sure to look at Dubya's Solar for 2004 & 2005.....

>

> As for what party in January rolls in the White House? Imagine they're

white!

>

>

> >>Well we're stuck with us doing the " controlled " research because we are

> the the only ones interested.

>

> It may be that one day a math professional might join forces with us.

> Bradley made a start in that direction, but the guy he was working with

> inconveniently died.

>

>

> The world would revolve with the aid of one math professor....

>

>

>

>

> >The CapSolar seemed like a natural....All bets are off though as far as

> the Southern >Hemisphere are concerned... haven't done the

> research(experience) to say yea or nay....

>

> It wouldn't be too difficult to compare the fall equinox charts (Tropical

> Capricorn) with the Capsolars for a few years, checking major events.

>

> Therese

>

> Ah... you don't know CapSolars.....

>

> Jivio

>

> PS: Therese... From your own account... you have not run cardinal ingress

charts in the manner I have suggested. Your comparing them to any other type

of chart is without merit until you have tested the process. Of course it

will require the use of progressions.....

 

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Bert Fannin <bwfannin wrote:

Juan:

That is what the Astro-map is for. It allows you to cast only one chart

and have an over view of the world from the focus of a particular ingress.

Note what Matthiew did with the Cansolar and 911.

 

Sidereally,

Bert

Bert W. Fannin

Western Sidereal Astrologer

Location and Timing Astrology

ltastrology

www.ltastrology.com

" Where you should be and when you should be there. "

 

 

Astro-Maps provides a " general " overview... Are you offering to gather data on

50 incidents of earthquakes or 50 incidents of floods? Or offering to compare

equinox charts with cardinal ingress charts?

 

Jivio

 

PS: Why note Matthew when I did the the CanSolar prior to 911 myself?

 

 

 

 

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As a forecasting tool the astro-map technique is rather more

time-efferent then doing a bunch of charts for other locations. I mentioned

Mathew's work because some one directed me to his web page.

Sidereally,

Bert

Bert W. Fannin

Western Sidereal Astrologer

Location and Timing Astrology

ltastrology

www.ltastrology.com

" Where you should be and when you should be there. "

 

 

____

 

-

" Juan Oliver " <jivio

 

Monday, July 12, 2004 3:02 AM

Re: Re: More on CapSolar Ingress Charts

 

 

>

>

> Bert Fannin <bwfannin wrote:

> Juan:

> That is what the Astro-map is for. It allows you to cast only one chart

> and have an over view of the world from the focus of a particular ingress.

> Note what Matthiew did with the Cansolar and 911.

>

> Sidereally,

> Bert

> Bert W. Fannin

> Western Sidereal Astrologer

> Location and Timing Astrology

> ltastrology

> www.ltastrology.com

> " Where you should be and when you should be there. "

>

>

> Astro-Maps provides a " general " overview... Are you offering to gather

data on 50 incidents of earthquakes or 50 incidents of floods? Or offering

to compare equinox charts with cardinal ingress charts?

>

> Jivio

>

> PS: Why note Matthew when I did the the CanSolar prior to 911 myself?

>

>

>

>

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At 01:25 AM 7/12/04 -0700, Juan wrote:

>Like 50 major earthquake or 50 major floods. For starters.

>

>

>When you cast a cardinal ingress chart it is done for a particular

location. NYC, Washington or Bagdad for instance... These charts allow the

astrologer to forecast events for the upcoming year. How many charts would

one have to cast to determine when and where 50 major earthquakes or 50

major floods would occur?

 

Whoa!! You're jumping way ahaead. First we study the charts of similar

events. Then...of course, supposing we had a predictive model, either world

locales would have to be computerized or (best scenario) employed

astrologers for each locale would keep an eye on the 12 monthly charts or

ingress charts or whatever the model dictated.

 

>One can predict with the Capsolar! The November election? Simply check

the cardinal ingress charts with the principals involved.

>Be sure to look at Dubya's Solar for 2004 & 2005.....

 

What's your prediction, Juan, since you are accustomed to doing progressions?

 

Therese

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