Guest guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 > Therese Hamilton <eastwest@s...> > Sat Mar 29, 2003 9:17 pm > Ingress Charts > > > >At 12:17 AM 3/29/03 -0800, Gerald wrote: >> >> It seems to me that any zodiacs chosen will >> ultimately have to be tested against events. I >> refer for example to angular or house division >> contacts of planets simultaneous with events. That >> would be a matter of least-squares or statistical >> fitting, as far as science goes. These fits may >> always be fuzzy due to the shape of the correlation >> curves. But usually the more approximate results are >> known well in advance from simple observation. With >> today's computers, it should be possible to decide >> on zodiacs in a short time and without any >> particular reliance on ancient texts. > >This would have to be via progressed angles and planets, wouldn't it? This >then is within the skill set of sidereal astrologers. The Moon would be >important since its position would be different by a day or so. I am not >currently working with progressed ingress charts (meaning I'd be no good at >it from lack of experience), but maybe there are others who can work with >you on these charts. I hope someone is interested. I know that Matthew >Quellas works frequently with progressed ingress charts. Maybe he'd be >interested. Matthew?? > >Therese ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Thanks Therese, Your great suggestion to use the moon and moon-driven events to differentiate zodiacs looks really sufficient to do it without any statistics. I will use any planet that changes degree as well, as you know how I love degree symbols. I also hope others will compare events in the two or three offsets and see if a clear consensus can be reached. I probably will start with the WTC as it's a well timed event, and try to find out which tropical offset works best symbolicly. Bob has shown that the FB works very well using his progressions, it remains to be seen what the others will show by that and other means. I hope there will be clear unarguable differences. This is going to take me a while as I have a lot on my plate. Anyone else who wants to do it is very welcome. I really appreciate your investigations into this very important matter for sidereal astrology. It is time we argue more from observations and less from authorities on this issue. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2004 Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 At 02:04 AM 4/25/04 -0700, Dark*Star wrote: > >Therese, > >I found the Krishnamurti Ingress of Aries very helpful in the Ryongchon. The Fagan >and the Krish are both useful. It isn't that one is saying yes and the other no. The angles in these two solar ingress charts are usually fairly close. But the Moon will be different, and the event contacts to the ingress angles will be different. I don't believe we can have two valid sidereal zodiacs. We'd have to choose the one that performed best over a series of different events and time periods. One of the most striking correlations was with the two main New Madrid quake charts where the degree of Antares rose in the K solar ingress, and the Moon in the two charts fell on the degree and minute of Antares in one quake chart and on the ingress descendant near Aldebaran in the other. Then we have Mercury in 29 59 (K) in the Ryongchon tragedy. We need more cases, of course, but these two are significant. P.S. I think it's possible that the Moon can march to a different sort of ingress (tied to lunar mansions somehow or Aldebaran/Antares?) than the solar ingress. It seems that in the F-B examples given on this list, it's the lunar charts that show some interesting correlations. Well, anyhow, this is just a thought.... The Moon has latitude, which puts it in a different category than the sun. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2004 Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 Therese, I have some Madrid earthquakes -there were many. Would you please post the two dates and times you are using on the list. Please don't send me to some rabbit hole to look it up. " We need more cases " is a plague on astrology -pie in the sky. We have to make a decision on what we have and what we know right now. All is prejudice (pre-judgment) as it should be. There are many sidereal zodiacs. The best one is the one that you and you and you and me work with and know the best. Therese Hamilton wrote: > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 At 02:04 AM 4/25/04 -0700, Dark*Star wrote: >I found the Krishnamurti Ingress of Aries very helpful in the Ryongchon. The Fagan and the Krish are both useful. It isn't that one is saying yes and the other no. But one can say 'yes' louder than the other. T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 Yes, especially to those who wear their glasses on their ears. Subtle differences are interpreted by preconception. It is a delightful human quality. Dark*Star Therese Hamilton wrote: > At 02:04 AM 4/25/04 -0700, Dark*Star wrote: > >I found the Krishnamurti Ingress of Aries very helpful in the Ryongchon. > The Fagan and the Krish are both useful. It isn't that one is saying yes > and the > other no. > > But one can say 'yes' louder than the other. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 At 02:48 PM 4/25/04 -0700, you wrote: > Therese, > >I have some Madrid earthquakes... I'll put these charts on the Lost Zodiac website, where it's very easy to pull up the charts. There will be text with the charts. In a day or two. >There are many sidereal zodiacs. The best one is the one that you and you and >you and me work with and know the best. No. The mathematical structure of the universe is precise, and so is the zodiac. There are not multiple valid sidereal zodiacs unless (as I said in a recent post) the Moon is somehow anchored differently than the sun. The ancient lunar zodiac may anchor the Moon, but the solar zodiac so far seems to be anhored via the Krishnamurti coordintes. Simple mathematics (not statistics) don't lie. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 Another rabbit hole and 2 days away. I was looking for a problem to solve while supper is in the oven. D*S Therese Hamilton wrote: > I'll put these charts on the Lost Zodiac website, where it's very easy to > pull up the charts. There will be text with the charts. In a day or two. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 Therese, > No. The mathematical structure of the universe is precise, and so is the > zodiac. There are not multiple valid sidereal zodiacs unless (as I said in > a recent post) the Moon is somehow anchored differently than the sun. The > ancient lunar zodiac may anchor the Moon, but the solar zodiac so far seems > to be anhored via the Krishnamurti coordintes. Simple mathematics (not > statistics) don't lie. I know where you're coming from here but I lack your certainty. Houck said the same thing as you with equal conviction(krishnamurti is correct, all others are wrong), and yet I never fully bought into this either/or position. The thing is I just don't know HOW astrology works enough to be sure about these parametric questions. It may well be that some zodiacs work better with certain techniques. I know that Fagan doesn't work with some of the vedic type things I use, but that shouldn't be surprising, should it? That doesn't mean Fagan is wrong. To say it's wrong, one would have to use it's own techniques and show that it is lacking. I suppose that is what you're attempting in this ingress thread. So far, I haven't seen " proof " that Fagan is wrong, only that Krishnamurti may also be " useful " alongside of it. There is a big difference in the words " useful " and " correct " . Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Oh?? O.K., I didn't realize that sidereal astrologers used overlapping ingress charts. I don't. One chart, one month, and the chart is finished. I watch the transits to these charts (no progressions). I also use New Moon charts (not full except as an extension of the new...) T. At 11:27 PM 7/8/04 -0700, Jivio wrote: > > >Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote: > The siderealists and >tropical astrologers use their Cancer ingresses for the following three >months. I use it only for a month, and then jump to the Leo (Krishnamurti) >ingress in August. > >No true for all... Some sidereal astrologers like myself use the cardinal ingresses throughout the year. > >An ingress chart does not end until its cycle starts all over again the following year. Four cardinal ingress charts are in play simultaneously. The primary one being the Cap, then the Can followed by the Aires and Libra Solar Ingress (Returns)... > >One simply maps the progressions and the transits to the natal and progressed positions for each Cardinal Solar Ingress. > >Informative charts are also done for the fixed and mutable signs by some astrologers as well as new and full moon charts. > >Jivio > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Two points to mention... 1) I also use the Full Moon chart as an extension of the New Moon Chart... 2) What is consistent in both of our choices is that an ingress chart can be viewed as lasting for a period of a month or a year....Both are warranted as they both fulfill a cyclical period of time... Charting for the most part is a study of cycles and their compliment to each other. Jivio Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote: Oh?? O.K., I didn't realize that sidereal astrologers used overlapping ingress charts. I don't. One chart, one month, and the chart is finished. I watch the transits to these charts (no progressions). I also use New Moon charts (not full except as an extension of the new...) T. At 11:27 PM 7/8/04 -0700, Jivio wrote: > > >Therese Hamilton wrote: > The siderealists and >tropical astrologers use their Cancer ingresses for the following three >months. I use it only for a month, and then jump to the Leo (Krishnamurti) >ingress in August. > >No true for all... Some sidereal astrologers like myself use the cardinal ingresses throughout the year. > >An ingress chart does not end until its cycle starts all over again the following year. Four cardinal ingress charts are in play simultaneously. The primary one being the Cap, then the Can followed by the Aires and Libra Solar Ingress (Returns)... > >One simply maps the progressions and the transits to the natal and progressed positions for each Cardinal Solar Ingress. > >Informative charts are also done for the fixed and mutable signs by some astrologers as well as new and full moon charts. > >Jivio > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 I use the new moon chart too as a beginning, then look at each of the quarters of the lunar month to guide me for my monthly planner. c Therese Hamilton [eastwest] Friday, July 09, 2004 9:55 AM Re: Ingress Charts Oh?? O.K., I didn't realize that sidereal astrologers used overlapping ingress charts. I don't. One chart, one month, and the chart is finished. I watch the transits to these charts (no progressions). I also use New Moon charts (not full except as an extension of the new...) T. At 11:27 PM 7/8/04 -0700, Jivio wrote: > > >Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote: > The siderealists and >tropical astrologers use their Cancer ingresses for the following three >months. I use it only for a month, and then jump to the Leo (Krishnamurti) >ingress in August. > >No true for all... Some sidereal astrologers like myself use the cardinal ingresses throughout the year. > >An ingress chart does not end until its cycle starts all over again the following year. Four cardinal ingress charts are in play simultaneously. The primary one being the Cap, then the Can followed by the Aires and Libra Solar Ingress (Returns)... > >One simply maps the progressions and the transits to the natal and progressed positions for each Cardinal Solar Ingress. > >Informative charts are also done for the fixed and mutable signs by some astrologers as well as new and full moon charts. > >Jivio > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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