I'm new here

April 9, 2004

I just joined here,because of what the discription said.Saying that

you may not be the sign you thought you were.Well I was kinda

wondering then about what I've thought my sign to be for years.I've

always thought that I'm a Leo..My birthday being August 10,1983 at

8:04pm....Am I still a leo,or where could I find out what my REAL

sign is if any of you know..

Thanks..

Tara

April 10, 2004

Dear Tara ...

In the Sidereal system you are a Cancer, but ... a rose by any other name,

and all that ... what I mean is, the characteristics attributed to Tropical

Leo are the same as those of Sidereal Cancer. Your Sun sign is ruled by the

Moon, and the Moon is flambouyant and social and loves attention. For an

excellent article on the subject go to

http://users.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm . It explains it all.

.... Bettina

[bettinaw]

bongiovi_gurl83 [bongiovi_gurl83]

Thursday, April 08, 2004 4:55 PM

I'm new here

I just joined here,because of what the discription said.Saying that

you may not be the sign you thought you were.Well I was kinda

wondering then about what I've thought my sign to be for years.I've

always thought that I'm a Leo..My birthday being August 10,1983 at

8:04pm....Am I still a leo,or where could I find out what my REAL

sign is if any of you know..

Thanks..

Tara

" How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " -----

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

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Shortcut URL to this page:

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April 10, 2004

Bettina,

Thank you for responding to my post and the link,that was very kind

of you..So am I really a cancer,Should I go around thinking myself a

Cancer and not a Leo.I'm not exactly sure I understand " Sidereal

system " ..If you could either explain it alittle more for me,or

reccomend a place that could explain it to me alittle more so that I

can understand what all of it means.I would be very greatful to

you....

-Tara

, " Bettina " <chiria@n...>

wrote:

> Dear Tara ...

>

> In the Sidereal system you are a Cancer, but ... a rose by any

other name,

> and all that ... what I mean is, the characteristics attributed to

Tropical

> Leo are the same as those of Sidereal Cancer. Your Sun sign is

ruled by the

> Moon, and the Moon is flambouyant and social and loves attention.

For an

> excellent article on the subject go to

> http://users.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm . It explains

it all.

>

> ... Bettina

>

> [bettinaw]

>

> bongiovi_gurl83 [bongiovi_gurl83]

> Thursday, April 08, 2004 4:55 PM

>

> I'm new here

>

> I just joined here,because of what the discription said.Saying

that

> you may not be the sign you thought you were.Well I was kinda

> wondering then about what I've thought my sign to be for

years.I've

> always thought that I'm a Leo..My birthday being August 10,1983

at

> 8:04pm....Am I still a leo,or where could I find out what my REAL

> sign is if any of you know..

>

> Thanks..

> Tara

>

> " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to

Antares? " -----

>

> Post message:

> Subscribe: -

> Un: -

> List owner: -owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /

>

> -

---------

> --

>

April 10, 2004

There are probably folks on this board who can explain it better than I.

I'm so unmathematical. Somebody? But in the Sidereal system the Zodiac

moves, albeit slowly. Right now, depending on which ayanamsa (that's a

whole other subject) one uses, everything is moved back approximately 24

degrees. So, for example, 15 degrees of Tropical Aries would be 21 degrees

of Sidereal Pisces.

Since most people in the western nations use the tropical system, you'd

probably want to call yourself a Leo to them, but (if you become a

Siderealist) mention that you use a different system in which you are a

Cancer. It's the qualities of the ruling planet that give the sign its

traits.

.... Bettina

bongiovi_gurl83 [bongiovi_gurl83]

Friday, April 09, 2004 10:47 PM

Re: I'm new here

Bettina,

Thank you for responding to my post and the link,that was very kind

of you..So am I really a cancer,Should I go around thinking myself a

Cancer and not a Leo.I'm not exactly sure I understand " Sidereal

system " ..If you could either explain it alittle more for me,or

reccomend a place that could explain it to me alittle more so that I

can understand what all of it means.I would be very greatful to

you....

-Tara

, " Bettina " <chiria@n...>

wrote:

> Dear Tara ...

>

> In the Sidereal system you are a Cancer, but ... a rose by any

other name,

> and all that ... what I mean is, the characteristics attributed to

Tropical

> Leo are the same as those of Sidereal Cancer. Your Sun sign is

ruled by the

> Moon, and the Moon is flambouyant and social and loves attention.

For an

> excellent article on the subject go to

> http://users.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm . It explains

it all.

>

> ... Bettina

>

> [bettinaw]

>

> bongiovi_gurl83 [bongiovi_gurl83]

> Thursday, April 08, 2004 4:55 PM

>

> I'm new here

>

> I just joined here,because of what the discription said.Saying

that

> you may not be the sign you thought you were.Well I was kinda

> wondering then about what I've thought my sign to be for

years.I've

> always thought that I'm a Leo..My birthday being August 10,1983

at

> 8:04pm....Am I still a leo,or where could I find out what my REAL

> sign is if any of you know..

>

> Thanks..

> Tara

>

> " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to

Antares? " -----

>

> Post message:

> Subscribe: -

> Un: -

> List owner: -owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /

>

> -

---------

> --

>

April 10, 2004

At 11:19 PM 4/9/04 -0700, Bettina wrote:

>There are probably folks on this board who can explain it better than I.

>I'm so unmathematical. Somebody? But in the Sidereal system the Zodiac

>moves, albeit slowly.

No, the sidereal zodiac doesn't move. The Tropical zodiac is the one that

shifts each year in relation to the stars. Maybe I'll have time to explain

this later this weekend or maybe someone else will. But this is true:

>>It's the qualities of the ruling planet that give the (sidereal) sign its

>traits.

Also the exalted planet contributes and the constellational symbol as well

as the actual stars in the sky. Please read the sign Aries link below:

(Taurus will be posted within a day or two and then the other signs in

following weeks.)

http://users.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm

.....Therese

April 11, 2004

Bettina......

What you are telling Tara is misguided and untrue....

You make it sound that Tropical Leo is the same as

Sidereal Cancer.

Suggest you educate yourself further on this subject.

Juan

Bettina <chiria wrote:

Dear Tara ...

what I mean is, the characteristics attributed to Tropical

Leo are the same as those of Sidereal Cancer.

.... Bettina

bongiovi_gurl83 [bongiovi_gurl83]

Thursday, April 08, 2004 4:55 PM

I'm new here

I just joined here,because of what the discription said.Saying that

you may not be the sign you thought you were.Well I was kinda

wondering then about what I've thought my sign to be for years.I've

always thought that I'm a Leo..My birthday being August 10,1983 at

8:04pm....Am I still a leo,or where could I find out what my REAL

sign is if any of you know..

Thanks..

Tara

" How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " -----

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

List owner: -owner

Shortcut URL to this page:

/

----------

--

April 11, 2004

Juan,

Hello Juan.Okay hearing all these different scenious has now

completly confused me.I don't know who or what to believe right

now.As that I am not familar with Sideral Astrology.Someone PLEASE

tell me,do I look into Leo or Cancer?Because now I'm VERY curious as

to what I supposedly am...I would appreciate to be told something

that isn't misguided.lol.

So please someone that " knows " what the differences between tropical

and Sidereal please explain or give me a push in the right direction

at least...

-Tara

, Juan Oliver <jivio>

wrote:

> Bettina......

>

> What you are telling Tara is misguided and untrue....

> You make it sound that Tropical Leo is the same as

> Sidereal Cancer.

> Suggest you educate yourself further on this subject.

>

> Juan

>

> Bettina <chiria@n...> wrote:

> Dear Tara ...

>

> what I mean is, the characteristics attributed to Tropical

> Leo are the same as those of Sidereal Cancer.

>

> ... Bettina

>

> bongiovi_gurl83 [bongiovi_gurl83]

> Thursday, April 08, 2004 4:55 PM

>

> I'm new here

>

> I just joined here,because of what the discription said.Saying that

> you may not be the sign you thought you were.Well I was kinda

> wondering then about what I've thought my sign to be for years.I've

> always thought that I'm a Leo..My birthday being August 10,1983 at

> 8:04pm....Am I still a leo,or where could I find out what my REAL

> sign is if any of you know..

>

> Thanks..

> Tara

>

> " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " --

---

>

> Post message:

> Subscribe: -

> Un: -

> List owner: -owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /

>

> -

---------

> --

>

April 11, 2004

Tara..

You impress me as a pretty bright individual...

The best I or anyone else can do for you is " attempt to " push you in the right

direction. Keep in mind that " we " all think we know what the " right " direction

is.

The Tropical Zodiac is determined by calculating(12) 30 degree signs beginning

from the Spring Equinox(0 degree Aires).

The Sidereal Zodiac is difficult to explain because there a number of ways of

calculating the beginning of the constellation of Aires. The key is that

Siderealists will look to the sky and visually ascertain the constellations and

then calculate where the planets are within these same constellations.

For you to learn about Sidereal , it is incumbent upon you to be patient and

learn the subtle differences.

http://users.cwnet.com/~sidereal/wsn/wsn.html

The above link has been established for many years and is the most informative

link on Sidereal Astrology. There are many within this group that would argue

that point with me. You must learn through your own research which is most

accurate.

As was mentioned in a previous e-mail. To accurately cast your chart, the

location of your birth is required. It is also prudent to retain that

information if you wish to remain private about your birthdata. Some individuals

in this world believe that you expose your spirit by sharing your birthdata. Its

your personal identity, your psychological DNA so to share and it is a big deal.

I mention this not to discourage or inhibit your ambition to know more about

yourself, simply to suggest mindfulness.

So what does it mean to be a Sidereal Cancer Sun? The answer as you would

imagine is not as simple as reading about Tropical Leo.

Though in your case since your Sidereal Moon is in Leo I do sense

a degree of regality within you. The type of Siderealist I am, I would look to

your Moon sign instead of your Sun sign as being your focal identity. In

Sidereal Astrology, we look to the Moon sign as being the reflection or

reflector within an individual. The mirror of your self is your Moon(sign). In

Tropical they like to focus on the Sun sign.

Siderealists also like to look at where the Planets and the Lights(Sun & Moon)

are placed within your chart for evaluation before focusing on a " sign " ... You

will find less focus on signs and more focus on the strength/weakness of the

planets/lights within your chart due to their placement and their

inter-relationships.

Without knowing the Latitude of your birth, we can not determine how close the

Sun was to the horizon at your time of birth. This is critical in accessing the

strength of your Sun. Just glancing at an impromptu chart of yours I smile

thinking of you currently experiencing a square from transiting Uranus to your

natal Uranus. This youngster, is a time for a revolutionary change in your life.

We typically have four moments in our life when a major shift occurs...

Approximately at 21, 42, 63 and 84. Also Mars square Pluto/Saturn at Birth.....

with Neptune sextile to Pluto..... You are blessed with extraordinary dynamics.

Develop your intuition and learn about your gifts... Suggest you read

Sidereal.zip which you will find at the link I mentioned to you.... Have a Happy

Easter and Don't " Curb your Enthusiasm " .

Juan

Tamara <bongiovi_gurl83 wrote:

Juan,

Hello Juan.Okay hearing all these different scenious has now

completly confused me.I don't know who or what to believe right

now.As that I am not familar with Sideral Astrology.Someone PLEASE

tell me,do I look into Leo or Cancer?Because now I'm VERY curious as

to what I supposedly am...I would appreciate to be told something

that isn't misguided.lol.

So please someone that " knows " what the differences between tropical

and Sidereal please explain or give me a push in the right direction

at least...

-Tara

, Juan Oliver

wrote:

> Bettina......

>

> What you are telling Tara is misguided and untrue....

> You make it sound that Tropical Leo is the same as

> Sidereal Cancer.

> Suggest you educate yourself further on this subject.

>

> Juan

>

> Bettina wrote:

> Dear Tara ...

>

> what I mean is, the characteristics attributed to Tropical

> Leo are the same as those of Sidereal Cancer.

>

> ... Bettina

>

> bongiovi_gurl83 [bongiovi_gurl83]

> Thursday, April 08, 2004 4:55 PM

>

> I'm new here

>

> I just joined here,because of what the discription said.Saying that

> you may not be the sign you thought you were.Well I was kinda

> wondering then about what I've thought my sign to be for years.I've

> always thought that I'm a Leo..My birthday being August 10,1983 at

> 8:04pm....Am I still a leo,or where could I find out what my REAL

> sign is if any of you know..

>

> Thanks..

> Tara

>

> " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " --

---

>

> Post message:

> Subscribe: -

> Un: -

> List owner: -owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /

>

> -

---------

> --

>

April 11, 2004

Juan,

Thank you for the compliment.When I want to know something I

normally just make myself known.I understand what you mean

by " thinking " about pushing someone into what they believe is the

right direction.I just want to know what I'm dealing with.Is it the

same thing between Cancer and Leo? Like a cusp or does it more

having to do with just two signs meeting to together with both

bringing to you certain characterists of either sign.That's where I

got alittle baffled.

I will say that I appreaciate anyone and everyone that

has " attempted " to help me in any way.I don't mean to come in here

and sound all demanding.Your time is precious to you and taking just

a few minutes on explainging something to me is normally never

done..So all I can just say is " Thank you " again.

The links that you have suggested are welcomed and I'll check them

out myself when I have alittle more time to actually sit down and

try to understand it.

I would have never thought that revealing birth information is like

revealing your soul,but now that you meantion it,I can understand

why you said it.You learn something new everyday.

> " Latitude of your birth, we can not determine how close the Sun was

to the horizon at your time of birth. " What exactly do you mean the

latitide of where I was born?I don't fully understand that.

Thank you again for your time..

-Tamara (this is my real name,though I'm also referred to as Tara)

, Juan Oliver <jivio>

wrote:

> Tara..

> You impress me as a pretty bright individual...

> The best I or anyone else can do for you is " attempt to " push you

in the right direction. Keep in mind that " we " all think we know

what the " right " direction is.

>

> The Tropical Zodiac is determined by calculating(12) 30 degree

signs beginning from the Spring Equinox(0 degree Aires).

> The Sidereal Zodiac is difficult to explain because there a number

of ways of calculating the beginning of the constellation of Aires.

The key is that Siderealists will look to the sky and visually

ascertain the constellations and then calculate where the planets

are within these same constellations.

> For you to learn about Sidereal , it is incumbent upon you to be

patient and learn the subtle differences.

>

> http://users.cwnet.com/~sidereal/wsn/wsn.html

>

> The above link has been established for many years and is the

most informative link on Sidereal Astrology. There are many within

this group that would argue that point with me. You must learn

through your own research which is most accurate.

>

> As was mentioned in a previous e-mail. To accurately cast your

chart, the location of your birth is required. It is also prudent to

retain that information if you wish to remain private about your

birthdata. Some individuals in this world believe that you expose

your spirit by sharing your birthdata. Its your personal identity,

your psychological DNA so to share and it is a big deal. I mention

this not to discourage or inhibit your ambition to know more about

yourself, simply to suggest mindfulness.

>

> So what does it mean to be a Sidereal Cancer Sun? The answer as

you would imagine is not as simple as reading about Tropical Leo.

> Though in your case since your Sidereal Moon is in Leo I do sense

> a degree of regality within you. The type of Siderealist I am, I

would look to your Moon sign instead of your Sun sign as being your

focal identity. In Sidereal Astrology, we look to the Moon sign as

being the reflection or reflector within an individual. The mirror

of your self is your Moon(sign). In Tropical they like to focus on

the Sun sign.

> Siderealists also like to look at where the Planets and the Lights

(Sun & Moon) are placed within your chart for evaluation before

focusing on a " sign " ... You will find less focus on signs and more

focus on the strength/weakness of the planets/lights within your

chart due to their placement and their inter-relationships.

>

> Without knowing the Latitude of your birth, we can not determine

how close the Sun was to the horizon at your time of birth. This is

critical in accessing the strength of your Sun. Just glancing at an

impromptu chart of yours I smile thinking of you currently

experiencing a square from transiting Uranus to your natal Uranus.

This youngster, is a time for a revolutionary change in your life.

We typically have four moments in our life when a major shift

occurs... Approximately at 21, 42, 63 and 84. Also Mars square

Pluto/Saturn at Birth..... with Neptune sextile to Pluto..... You

are blessed with extraordinary dynamics. Develop your intuition and

learn about your gifts... Suggest you read Sidereal.zip which you

will find at the link I mentioned to you.... Have a Happy Easter and

Don't " Curb your Enthusiasm " .

>

> Juan

>

> Tamara <bongiovi_gurl83> wrote:

> Juan,

> Hello Juan.Okay hearing all these different scenious has now

> completly confused me.I don't know who or what to believe right

> now.As that I am not familar with Sideral Astrology.Someone PLEASE

> tell me,do I look into Leo or Cancer?Because now I'm VERY curious

as

> to what I supposedly am...I would appreciate to be told something

> that isn't misguided.lol.

> So please someone that " knows " what the differences between

tropical

> and Sidereal please explain or give me a push in the right

direction

> at least...

>

> -Tara

>

> , Juan Oliver

> wrote:

> > Bettina......

> >

> > What you are telling Tara is misguided and untrue....

> > You make it sound that Tropical Leo is the same as

> > Sidereal Cancer.

> > Suggest you educate yourself further on this subject.

> >

> > Juan

> >

> > Bettina wrote:

> > Dear Tara ...

> >

> > what I mean is, the characteristics attributed to Tropical

> > Leo are the same as those of Sidereal Cancer.

> >

> > ... Bettina

> >

> > bongiovi_gurl83 [bongiovi_gurl83]

> > Thursday, April 08, 2004 4:55 PM

> >

> > I'm new here

> >

> > I just joined here,because of what the discription said.Saying

that

> > you may not be the sign you thought you were.Well I was kinda

> > wondering then about what I've thought my sign to be for

years.I've

> > always thought that I'm a Leo..My birthday being August 10,1983

at

> > 8:04pm....Am I still a leo,or where could I find out what my REAL

> > sign is if any of you know..

> >

> > Thanks..

> > Tara

> >

> > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to

Antares? " --

> ---

> >

> > Post message:

> > Subscribe: -

> > Un: -

> > List owner: -owner

> >

> > Shortcut URL to this page:

> > /

> >

> > --------------------------------

--

> ---------

> > --

> >

April 11, 2004

Tamara <bongiovi_gurl83 wrote:

> " Latitude of your birth, we can not determine how close the Sun was

to the horizon at your time of birth. " What exactly do you mean the

latitide of where I was born?I don't fully understand that.

Tara...

When you are born... It is at a particular place on earth. We measure that place

by knowing the Latitude and Longitude. I was born in San Francisco which is

given in most resources as 37 degrees North, 46 minutes and 30 seconds

(Latitude) and 122 degrees West 25 minutes and 6 seconds(Longitude) This is also

written as 37N 46'30 " & 122W 25'06 " .

Knowing your latitude will advise me during the calculations of your chart how

close to sunset you were born. Since you were born after 8 PM in the evening the

further south you are born the greater the chance for your Sun to be above the

horizon.

The areas in a chart of greatest significance are the 4 major

angles(Ascendant(Asc), Mid-Heaven(MC), Descendant(Dec) and the Nadir or

I.C.(IC). You will read that there are other angles of importance and their

significance. These are the first 4 " important " angles.

If your Sun is near the Dec. it will possess a greater dynamic of presence

because the Dec is an angle. If not, it will be considered a " background " Sun.

Your ego will either be reserved and quiet or manifested overtly primarily

within partnerships and relationships.

More later....

Juan

PS: Look at a map of the constellations and identify them. Look at how they are

of different sizes. Look at how many are along the ecliptic.Then ask

yourself.... " What does a constellation or a zodiacal sign have to do with me

being me? "