Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 Hi Terese, I hate to be a nitpicker and all, but is there a reason why you don't do a second search with the tropical values so that we can compare the data? Also, it seems rather obvious to me that Michael J. Fox does not have Mars on the Descendant, as he has surely earned far more friends than enemies in life. Jupiter in aspect to Mars can grant much good via efforts in life no matter what signs they are in, one would think. For diseases of the nervous system such as Parkinsons, why aren't we looking to Uranus, Mercury, Saturn? Best, Ed K , Terese Hamilton <eastwest@s...> wrote: > I've been looking over the charts in ADB with Jupiter conjunct the > ascendant (5 degree orb) in Cancer (exaltation) and Capricorn (fall). It > seems that there are two factors going: personality traits which are fairly > constant no matter what sign Jupiter is in (Ed K. is correct there) and > events/circumstances. Here is where the differences show up. This is > similar to the results I found with Mars in either exaltation or fall > aspecting a 10th house Moon. > > We end up with a picture that correlates with what the Indian books say: a > planet in exaltation (in a prominent position in the chart) brings some > kind of fame and fortune and a planet in its fall brings no particular > distinction or it brings misfortune along with fame. If Jupiter conjunct > the ascendant in its fall doesn't hinder fame (because of counteracting > planetary influences), then there is likely to be some problem or > misfortune in the life related to Jupiter. > > As an example there is Jane Fonda (Asc 5.3, Jup 7.3 Cap) who was bulimic > (afflicted Jupiter?) and her mother committed suicide. > > Orbs should perhaps be wider. Michael J. Fox, who suffers from Parkinson's > disease has 25.3 Cap rising with Jupiter at 13.5. He was famous and > popular, but developed a debilitating disease. Yet, he appears to have > Jupiter's optimism and cheer. (Mars in its fall--Cancer--opposes the > ascendant (body-brain) to the exact MINUTE. > > Although I consider mainly the Moon and its aspects to designate > personality, if planets are conjunct the ascendant, they seem to also > relate to personality. > > Also if a planet in its fall opposes another planet in its own exalation > sign (unless that planet is also in its fall), that seems to negate any > neagative influence of the planet. So Jupiter in Capricorn aspecting the > Moon in Cancer would behave like an unafflicted Jupiter. But in Michael > Fox's case, two planets in their falls oppose each other. There are a > number of ways in Jyotish that the effects of a planet's fall can be > cancelled. (Jyotish does not use the western signs of debilitation opposite > a planet's own sign.) > > ADB was set for the Lahiri ayanamsa. > > Terese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 Hi Ed, At 05:49 AM 12/30/02 -0000, Ed K. wrote: >I hate to be a nitpicker and all, but is there a reason why you don't >do a second search with the tropical values so that we can compare >the data? Actually I was hoping there might be a Tropical astrologer who would like to run the Tropical data. It takes a while to load a database...it's huge...but if no one else offers, yes, I will have to insall and run the Tropical database. The program can only be set to one database at a time. The finished product (which I hope will make it to a web site) MUST also include the Tropical values. I'm sort of just tossing out ideas in the last week or two. I don't think of a discussion board as a place to post completed research projects. >Also, it seems rather obvious to me that Michael J. Fox does not have >Mars on the Descendant, as he has surely earned far more friends than >enemies in life. I think this is a **belief** only, that someone with Mars in the Decendant should not have many friends. A friend of mine has a son who is a policeman in San Francisco, but he has many friends. He's charming and very good looking. Mars is in sidereal Capricorn. The angular Mars apparently represents police work, and if the exalted symbolism holds, he should eventually reach a position of authority in the police force. I think it's the situation with Venus that tells us about friends. Venus is conjunct the Moon in Michael's chart...one degree orb. I question A LOT about what houses themselves are supposed to mean. I tend to hold to the Hellenistic concept that certain houses have to do with 'action'....planets are active there, and in other houses planets are more or less dead notes. >Jupiter in aspect to Mars can grant much good via efforts in life no >matter what signs they are in, one would think. For diseases of the >nervous system such as Parkinsons, why aren't we looking to Uranus, >Mercury, Saturn? Uranus (29 Cancer)is conjunct Mars (25 Cancer) in Michael's chart. His birth data is rated 'A' (from him.) In the navamsa chart Saturn, Mercury, Mars and Neptune oppose the ascendant from 7th. (I was just noting the probable effects of two planets on the asc/dec angles in their falls in my last post.) See all the fun we could have if you or someone else on this board had ADB set for the Topical zodiac. Studies with only one zodiac are pretty near worthless. Like testing a drug without the placebo control group. Terese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2002 Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 Hi Teresa, , Terese Hamilton <eastwest@s...> wrote: > Hi Ed, > > At 05:49 AM 12/30/02 -0000, Ed K. wrote: > > >I hate to be a nitpicker and all, but is there a reason why you don't > >do a second search with the tropical values so that we can compare > >the data? > > Actually I was hoping there might be a Tropical astrologer who would like > to run the Tropical data. It takes a while to load a database...it's > huge...but if no one else offers, yes, I will have to insall and run the > Tropical database. I would hope that you would do it more for yourself than for the rest of us, just to keep things on the up and up. The program can only be set to one database at a time. > The finished product (which I hope will make it to a web site) MUST also > include the Tropical values. I'm sort of just tossing out ideas in the last > week or two. I don't think of a discussion board as a place to post > completed research projects. I agree, but then there's no excuse for proffering incomplete pseudo- studies onto us either. > > >Also, it seems rather obvious to me that Michael J. Fox does not have > >Mars on the Descendant, as he has surely earned far more friends than > >enemies in life. > > I think this is a **belief** only, that someone with Mars in the Decendant > should not have many friends. Maybe I should have said that he doesn't seem like a person who attracts hostility and anger and enemies, which I have observed with every person I know who has Mars setting. Just look at our current President! His inauguration chart has Mars setting, and this idiot has managed to piss off most of the world, attract the worst terrorist attack in history, and start new wars. A friend of mine has a son who is a policeman > in San Francisco, but he has many friends. He's charming and very good > looking. Mars is in sidereal Capricorn. The angular Mars apparently > represents police work, and if the exalted symbolism holds, he should > eventually reach a position of authority in the police force. Why you would not look at his MC and 10th house and Saturn for career is interesting. What angle is Mars on? The DSC is mostly about relationships. > > I think it's the situation with Venus that tells us about friends. Venus is > conjunct the Moon in Michael's chart...one degree orb. I question A LOT > about what houses themselves are supposed to mean. I tend to hold to the > Hellenistic concept that certain houses have to do with 'action'....planets > are active there, and in other houses planets are more or less dead notes. That Moon/Venus in his chart would have the tendency to balance the Western Mars, surely, but I notice that you purposely avoided mentioning that this conjunction is in Tropical Taurus, and thus the exaltation of Luna and the domicile of Venus ~~ tsk tsk! > > >Jupiter in aspect to Mars can grant much good via efforts in life no > >matter what signs they are in, one would think. For diseases of the > >nervous system such as Parkinsons, why aren't we looking to Uranus, > >Mercury, Saturn? > > Uranus (29 Cancer)is conjunct Mars (25 Cancer) in Michael's chart. His > birth data is rated 'A' (from him.) In the navamsa chart Saturn, Mercury, > Mars and Neptune oppose the ascendant from 7th. (I was just noting the > probable effects of two planets on the asc/dec angles in their falls in my > last post.) I have his chart here in my Solar Fire, and there are a number of planetary indicators for neurological disorder (using the 90* dial), the most blatant being Moon at the midpoint of Merc/Uranus and Saturn being at the midpoint of Merc/Mars. Moon also combines with Sun/MC and Venus/Saturn -- the poor fellow also has Merc on the midpoint of Sun/Moon & Mars/Nodes, and I see that his MC/IC axis is aligned right on the (geocentric) nodes of Uranus -- ouch! This seems to be why the poor fellow has to be so public with his disease. Nonetheless, he has success written heavily in his chart with the underlying foundation being {Sun = Venus = Jupiter/Saturn}. Sun is also conjunct the (geocentric) North Node of Venus, thus enhancing the good looks and talent. Bestest, Ed K > > See all the fun we could have if you or someone else on this board had ADB > set for the Topical zodiac. Studies with only one zodiac are pretty near > worthless. Like testing a drug without the placebo control group. > > Terese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 At 06:54 AM 12/31/02 -0000, Ed K wrote: >Maybe I should have said that he doesn't seem like a person who >attracts hostility and anger and enemies, which I have observed with >every person I know who has Mars setting. Just look at our current >President! His inauguration chart has Mars setting, and this idiot >has managed to piss off most of the world, attract the worst >terrorist attack in history, and start new wars. An inauguration chart isn't the chart of a person. It chronicles the events during a president's term (presumably). Bush has Mars in the 2nd house. We're getting our concepts a little mixed up here. (Events vs. natal astrology, two very different animals.) And just the name of that prez gives me a headache.) - Terese wrote: >A friend of mine has a son who is a policeman >> in San Francisco, but he has many friends. He's charming and very >good >> looking. Mars is in sidereal Capricorn. The angular Mars apparently >> represents police work, and if the exalted symbolism holds, he >should >> eventually reach a position of authority in the police force. Ed K replied: >Why you would not look at his MC and 10th house and Saturn for career >is interesting. What angle is Mars on? The DSC is mostly about relationships. Mars is in the 7th, Cancer ascendant. We're talking about Mars (not Saturn), which rules the 10th house. I don't think anyone would disagree that Mars relates to police work. The planets relate to events as well as psychology. The trick is to be able to distinguish the two in a horoscope. >but I notice that you purposely avoided mentioning that this conjunction is in Tropical >Taurus, and thus the exaltation of Luna and the domicile of Venus ~~ tsk tsk! And what would be the significance of the Moon and Venus in Tropical Taurus as opposed to sidereal Aries? Presumably this would make the Moon very benefic. The Moon relates to health (so say the books), so this should mean a clean life health record. (The Moon and Venus are in the 4th sign/3rd house in MF's chart, so they aren't angular.) In the sidereal zodiac the Moon is in mutual reception to Mars in its fall conjunct Uranus. So we have a major health problem. Personality-wise the Moon is with Venus. No matter what sign, Venus with the Moon should theoretically give a pleasant personality. Planets = personality and by placement events Signs = events, actions or circumstances >For diseases of the nervous system such as Parkinsons, why aren't we looking to >Uranus, Mercury, Saturn? You're getting a bit off track here. We're discussing the question of whether signs have specific meanings, not what astro factors indicate Parkinson's disease. The only reason I mentioned Parkinsons disease in relation to Michael Fox is because he has two planets in their (sidereal) fall on the 1st-7th angles. This is supposed to show some kind of misfortune according to Indian and ancient western astrology. >I have his chart here in my Solar Fire, and there are a number of >planetary indicators for neurological disorder (using the 90* dial), >the most blatant being Moon at the midpoint of Merc/Uranus and Saturn >being at the midpoint of Merc/Mars. Moon also combines with Sun/MC >and Venus/Saturn -- the poor fellow also has Merc on the midpoint of >Sun/Moon & Mars/Nodes, and I see that his MC/IC axis is aligned right >on the (geocentric) nodes of Uranus -- ouch! This seems to be why >the poor fellow has to be so public with his disease. But this doesn't relate to signs of the zodiac, which is what we're talking about. Any midpoints not involving the Asc/MC/IC/exact Moon deg/min would apply to any person born during that day. You've hit some important midpoints, which may apply to other Parkinsons charts, but this is going off topic, which is signs of the zodiac. You'd have to see if these same midpoint pictures showed up in other Parkinsons cases. Actully I did pull up all the Parkinson's cases in ADB. The obvious planetary configuration seemed to be the interaction of Moon/Mars/Uranus without taking zodiac signs into consideration. (The signs didn't seem to matter and most of the cases developed Parkinson's in old age.) (If you want the birth data for the worst cases, I can post it here on the list so you can test the midpoint pictures.) >Nonetheless, he has success written heavily in his chart with the >underlying foundation being {Sun = Venus = Jupiter/Saturn}. Sun is >also conjunct the (geocentric) North Node of Venus, thus enhancing >the good looks and talent. You seem to be showing what you know here...O.K., well and good, but I think we should stay on topic, that is, signs of the zodiac. I tried to pull up the Michael Fox configuration of Mars in Cancer in 7th and Venus/Moon in Aries in 4th (sign). But there wasn't a single additional chart with that configuration. Then I tried Venus/Moon in Aries in the 4th sign from the ascendant. The result: three male homosexuals. Well, do you think that male homosexuals would have Venus/Moon in a sign of Venus or a sign of Mars? This gave me the idea of asking for charts with Moon-Venus in the ascendant signs of Aries (Trop Taurus), Taurus (Trop Gemini) and Gemini (Trop Cancer). All we have to do to get the two zodiacs is mentally move forward one sign. So I'll put these results in another post. Terese > >Bestest, >Ed K > > > >> >> See all the fun we could have if you or someone else on this board >had ADB >> set for the Topical zodiac. Studies with only one zodiac are pretty >near >> worthless. Like testing a drug without the placebo control group. >> >> Terese > > > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > >Shortcut URL to this page: >/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 he doesn't seem like a person who >attracts hostility and anger and enemies, which I have observed with >every person I know who has Mars setting. Just look at our current >President! His inauguration chart has Mars setting, and this idiot >has managed to piss off most of the world, attract the worst >terrorist attack in history, and start new wars. *******Pres. Bush caused the bombings on Sept. 11th, now? The plotters were already in the country before he became President! I think it had a little more to do with the " Monica missiles " fired by his predecessor, with Palestine, and with many other things long before that. Dr. Starman http://www.DrStarman.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 " I think it had a little more to do with the " Monica missiles " fired by his predecessor, with Palestine, and with many other things long before that. " Now you have a political agenda too??? You going to bring on Bill O " Reilly and call us all liberals next? ****////Damon DRStarman2001 wrote:he doesn't seem like a person who >attracts hostility and anger and enemies, which I have observed with >every person I know who has Mars setting. Just look at our current >President! His inauguration chart has Mars setting, and this idiot >has managed to piss off most of the world, attract the worst >terrorist attack in history, and start new wars. *******Pres. Bush caused the bombings on Sept. 11th, now? The plotters were already in the country before he became President! I think it had a little more to do with the " Monica missiles " fired by his predecessor, with Palestine, and with many other things long before that. Dr. Starman http://www.DrStarman.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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