a furtherance of questions

[Guest guest]

Hey, Breck! How goes?

 

In a message dated 99-12-06 20:14:02 EST, you write:

 

 

> +If the Sidereal approach is the right one, why say that it is best for one

> thing or another? Shouldn't it be the " best " period?

 

A tropical chart will still adequately reflect the angular planets, the

aspects, and which planets are on which midpoints. These are the bones,

heart, blood, and lungs of a chart. A person with a partile Moon-Mars

opposition (and the temper to go with it!) will still have it in either

zodiac.

 

However, suppose you want to know if a given transiting planet is in a

certain house. Or when a person is due for a Solar, Lunar, or Saturn return.

The older the person gets, the bigger the error, unless one corrects for

precession.

 

A few Tropicalists, such as Robert Hand, actually do correct for precession.

For example, they'll do a tropical and a sidereal chart on a client. When

they want to find when a certain transit will take place, they use the

Sidereal chart to find the time. Then they use that time to cast a Tropical

chart for interpretation. Those Tropicalists who do so find they get more

accurate results.

 

> >2) If you take the Tropicalist logic to it's inevitable conclusion (ie,

if

> >you're born on the first day of autumn, you're a Libra), then, since the

> >seasons are opposite on each side of the equator, two people with the

same

> >birthday but born on opposite sides of the equator will have opposite sun

> >signs. Most northern hemispere Tropicalists don't like to admit this,

but a

> >few from " down under " will.

> +I never really understood just what traditional astrology did with the

> " Southern Hemisphere Question " . So you are saying that with the Sidereal

> there is no problem; July is Gemini/Cancer for everybody everywhere on the

> planet?

 

I'll tell you what the tropicalists do with the Southern Hemisphere Question

-- the overwhelming majority simply ignore it! Or else come up with the most

convoluted excuses for saying only the Northern hemisphere's seasons matter.

As if what was good for the Canadian Goose wasn't good for the Australian

gander. . .

 

> >Additionally, you might want to find the special Vedic Astrology issue of

> >_The Mountain Astrologer_ from a few years ago. The author of an article

> >called " Don't Take Away My Sun Sign " observed that many Aries he knows

> " would

> >give you the shirt off their backs, " wondered why Tauruses like Hitler

and

> >Saddam were more Martian than Venusian, and so on.

> +I've been thinking about this most of the day (i.e. Dec. 6th, 1999--Saint

> Nicholas' Day). The Taurus to Aries scenario does make alot of sense for

the

> two despots you mention. But what about someone who has always seemed

> so Scorpionic to me, Gen. George Patton? He was born Nov. 11, 1885, with

a

> Tropical designation of Sun at 19-20` Scorpio. What is the ayanamsa for

> November 1885? Would the General be moved back into Libra? And while

> on the subject of World War II generals, how about Dwight Eisenhower? He

> was born on October 14, 1890 with Sun at 21` Libra. Would the Sidereal

> system move him back to Virgo? (for to me he always has seemed to be the

> quintessential Libran, forging that alliance betw. America and England

when so

> many big egos wanted to ruin it--typical of Libra to bring peace and to

get

> others to cooperate).

 

I'd need more info to answer those questions, like the full birth data.

 

> +What in heaven's name is the " Black Moon " ?!

 

Black Moon Lilith is the second focus of the Moon's orbit around the Earth.

I'm still working on its meaning in a birth chart, but in transits, it's a

killer -- sometimes literally!

 

> +Is there a book that gives the Sidereal longitudes just as we have

> ephemerides for the Tropical?

 

As a matter of fact, there is. Neil Michelsen of ACS also has calculated

Sidereal zodiacs for the twentieth century as well as for 2001-2050.

 

> Well that's enough questions for now. Please know that I am just being a

> diligent inquirer; I am not doubting your idea or challenging in any way.

> Just wanting to learn. Thanks, Breck

 

No problem; I hope I've answered your questions.

 

Later,

Kevin/Baraka

[Guest guest]

At 03:21 PM 12/05/1999 EST, you wrote:

>Aumgn93

>

>Hello, Breck.

[snip]

>1) Since it corrects for precession, the Sidereal zodiac is best to use for

>transits, returns (a special case of transit), house ingresses, and

synastry.

>Since solar and lunar returns are the best predictive tools, they must be

>precession-corrected to be accurate.

+If the Sidereal approach is the right one, why say that it is best for one

thing or another? Shouldn't it be the " best " period?

 

>2) If you take the Tropicalist logic to it's inevitable conclusion (ie, if

>you're born on the first day of autumn, you're a Libra), then, since the

>seasons are opposite on each side of the equator, two people with the same

>birthday but born on opposite sides of the equator will have opposite sun

>signs. Most northern hemispere Tropicalists don't like to admit this, but a

>few from " down under " will.

+I never really understood just what traditional astrology did with the

" Southern Hemisphere Question " . So you are saying that with the Sidereal

there is no problem; July is Gemini/Cancer for everybody everywhere on the

planet?

 

>Additionally, you might want to find the special Vedic Astrology issue of

>_The Mountain Astrologer_ from a few years ago. The author of an article

>called " Don't Take Away My Sun Sign " observed that many Aries he knows

" would

>give you the shirt off their backs, " wondered why Tauruses like Hitler and

>Saddam were more Martian than Venusian, and so on.

+I've been thinking about this most of the day (i.e. Dec. 6th, 1999--Saint

Nicholas' Day).

The Taurus to Aries scenario does make alot of sense for the two despots

you mention. But what about someone who has always seemed so Scorpionic to

me, Gen. George Patton? He was born Nov. 11, 1885, with a Tropical

designation of Sun at 19-20` Scorpio. What is the ayanamsa for November

1885? Would the General be moved back into Libra? And while on the

subject of World War II generals, how about Dwight Eisenhower? He was born

on October 14, 1890 with Sun at 21` Libra. Would the Sidereal system move

him back to Virgo? (for to me he always has seemed to be the quintessential

Libran, forging that alliance betw. America and England when so many big

egos wanted to ruin it--typical of Libra to bring peace and to get others

to cooperate).

 

>> My birth data: July 3, 1948 at Tyler, Texas. Approximately 2:30 a.m.

>C.S.T. >Thanks for the info so we could do your chart, too. This made

seeing what

>you wrote about a lot easier.

+Really? In what way?

>>

>Here's what I got using your birth data with the Sidereal Zodiac:

>

>First 05Tau02

> Uranus 03Gem13

> Venus 03Gem50 R

> Mercury 04Gem28 R

>Second 06Gem54

> Sun 17Gem17

>Third 28Gem03

>Fourth 17Can01

> Pluto 19Can32

> Saturn 26Can27

>Fifth 10Leo53

> Mars 28Leo08

> Neptune 16Vir14

>Sixth 18Vir47

> Vertex 04Lib02

> MSNode 17Lib03

>Seventh 05Sco02

> Jupiter 27Sco50 R

>Eighth 06Sag54

>Ninth 28Sag03

>Tenth 17Cap01

> BlackMoon 03Aqu56

>Eleventh 10Aqu53

>Twelfth 18Pis47

> MNNode 17Ari03

> East Point 21Ari56

> Moon 00Tau46

+What in heaven's name is the " Black Moon " ?!

Well I must say it takes some thought to consider myself to be a Gemini.

But, more to the point, it seems to me that the Sidereal system basically

changes nothing except the signs that one's planets are in. (Not that this

is inconsequential!). What I mean is that the aspects stay the same. The

house placements pretty much stay the same. But the signs change. Is this

your take as well? And if 'yes', then your earlier statement about how

important the Sidereal is to transits seems to beg the question.

>

>> How far off is the Tropical from the Sidereal now? How many degrees of

>> zodiac. longitude? . . .

>I occasionally post the Sidereal longitudes here; I'll forward the most

>recent one (last night, for midnight Sunday EST) to you privately.

+Is there a book that gives the Sidereal longitudes just as we have

ephemerides for the Tropical?

 

Well that's enough questions for now. Please know that I am just being a

diligent inquirer; I am not doubting your idea or challenging in any way.

Just wanting to learn. Thanks, Breck

_________________