Guest guest Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Dear Lajmi, 1. It's just an academic discussion which can't have any practical influence in recording of BOT. Generally it may not be a significant difference for which a crazy for accuracy (in your words) is not required. Because your highly appraised L. D. Madan predicted Rajiv's becoming the PM, downfall and assassination by using a Virgo Asc, i.e. around one hour difference from the commonly used TOB of 8:11 AM (war time) giving Leo Asc. 2. Now he is saying how can be predicted about the fate of present PM Singh, the person without having a horoscope, i.e he used to rely on the birth horoscope which reveals the general path of destiny by way of the disposition of the planets, ie. Prarabdha Karma to become a great man or beggar. For example, it's more clearly shown by Navamsa other than Birth chart that George W. Bush was born to be a great man. The timing of events is indicated by the Dasha and Bhukti periods supported by the transiting planets which are unique to KP or Vedic Astrology. 3. Could you kindly give a short list of well known predictions of 100% accuracy of Horary Astrology as " the proof of the pudding is in the eating " (frequently quoted by you) even not a long list (110 cases) like " Some Instances of Dr. B.V. Ramnan's Predictions " compiled by K.N. Rao in Chapter Three: " PROOF OF THE PUDDING " , pp 39- 89, Astrology and the Hoax of Scientific Temper, Edit. Gayatri Devi Vasudev, 1989. Thanks and regards, tw , Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1> wrote: > Dear tw,Rangarajan et al, > It is a medically accepted fact that the child'd first cry is his first breath...the usual practice for some time now is that the obstetrician holds the child up by his legs and slaps him smartly on his back to make him cry...! > > What if the child does not cry ? ! ! > > This could happen in extremely rare instances,or in premature births when the child born is too small and weak to even cry...but then,he will atleast cough to clear his lungs of fluid so that he can breathe... > > I must submit however that Astrology is not about the rarest events...and neither is K.P.,although some of the " old Masters " are known to have described rare events,with their astrological reasons for their occurrences,but only perhaps to illustrate by a " telling example " ...or perhaps to draw attention of the masses and the elite towards to the science,and perhaps,even to themselves...! In the name of research,therefore I sugest we do not discuss the rare... > > (Let us,for example concentrate on how to ensure thatr Horary Astrology which does not depend upon TOB., to be made 100% accurate...and such fruitful and practical objectives...) > > One must attend/witness a child- birth,to truly appreciate,and understand what actually takes place...these days such movies are shown in Maternity & Child- welfare clinics...with explanations... > > Hence KSK's definition is scientifically correct... > > With best wishes, > lyrastro1 > GOOD LUCK ! > > > > However, a child has to necessarily breathe to begin life...and to do so he cries most times,if not,atleast coughs... > > In either case he needs to breathe-in first to let out air to cough... > > > > > tw853 <tw853> wrote: > Dear Rangarajan, > > > " time of first breath " = " time when the head comes out " > > It may be asked the nurses from a maternity ward whether it's the > TOB generally recorded in BC. > > Regards, > > tw > > > , " Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy " > <ranga@m...> wrote: > > Dear Shri.Raichur, TW, > > How can one find when the child took its first breath? Looks > > complicated to me. > > > > Regards, > > Rangarajan > > > > , " tw853 " <tw853> wrote: > > > Dear Shri Raichur, > > > > > > That may be the most reasonable TOB. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > , anant raichur > <anant_1608> > > > wrote: > > > > Dear R G > > > > > > > > In such cases one shuld ascertain, when the child took the 1st > > > Breath. This moment is > > > > > > > > suppossed to be the BIRTH. Just as DEATH is the stooping > > > completely of the Breath, and > > > > > > > > gives rise to the popular saying " one breathed his last breath " > > > > > > > > R G <rg_bharat> wrote: > > > > Sir > > > > We shold not not forget that some childred do no cry at all. > > > > RG > > > > > > > > anant raichur <anant_1608> wrote: > > > > Dear Rongaunt > > > > > > > > You are right. The question of Birth Time is fraught with many > > > problems. The traditional > > > > > > > > method (at least in India), was that time of birth was fixed > > when > > > the first cry was heard > > > > > > > > by the persons outside the Labour Room. It had nothing to do > > with > > > the cutting of the > > > > > > > > umibical chord. > > > > > > > > Phylosophically it is said " THE SOUL ENTERS THE BODY WITH THE > > 1st > > > Breath " > > > > > > > > Since a child cries as soon as it stars breathing, this has > been > > > taken as the time of > > > > > > > > Birth. > > > > > > > > May I suggest " THE Correct Time of Birth is one which will > give > > > correct corelation of the > > > > > > > > events already taken place " . This can then be used for > further > > > predictions. > > > > > > > > I know another method of birth rectification, working the > > Reverse > > > Way, used by some > > > > > > > > western astrologers. Knowing an important event in life, they > > > check the BT, working > > > > > > > > backwards. I will set out that method a little later for > test, > > > after Rangaraj finishes his > > > > > > > > study with the Revised Nadi method, I have outlined. > > > > > > > > good luck > > > > > > > > > > > > " rongaunt@b... au " <rongaunt@b...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Rangarajan, > > > > > > > > The whole question of the correct time of birth is fraught with > > > > problems. Nevertheless, it appears that most Western > > > > astrologers at least, use either the time of the first breath > or > > > > the time of cutting of the umbilical cord. My own thoughts on > > > > this is that it should be the latter, as this is when the child > > > > becomes a person it his/her own right. However this is to all > > > > intent and purposes academic, because in reality we very seldom > > > > hear of how the birth time was taken by the observers. Also in > > > > practice the first breath and cutting of the cord are likely to > > > > be fairly close together. > > > > > > > > There could even be a factor that is generally unknown. Edgar > > > > Cayce 'The Sleeping Prophet' who had proven success in > thousands > > > > of cases (mostly medical diagnosis - without even meeting the > > > > person - or having any knowledge of them), stated that the soul > > > > whilst mostly entering the body at the time of birth, just > > > > occasionally takes posession whilst still in the womb, and > > > > sometimes even many hours after birth. This begets the question > > > > when we are looking at a chart for the first time - are we > > > > looking at the chart of a 'maverick' soul. My own approach > > > > to this is that when I see a chart that does not appear to be > > > > anywhere near consistent with a number of events (particularly > > > > transits to angles of the further planets and Nodes) then I > > > > consider that I might be looking at one of these cases. > > > > > > > > Thank you for your excellent work. I am sure it is appreciated > > > > by all members. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ron Gaunt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 27 May 2005 13:23:05 -0000, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >Dear Members, > > > > >When working on the recent study on BRT I realised that we > > should > > > > >arrive at the correct definition of birth time. I am sure you > > > would > > > > >have seen definitions such as " the exact time when the child > > first > > > > >cries " , " time of first breath " , " time of cutting the > umbilical > > > cord " , > > > > > " time when the head comes out " , etc. What is the " correct " > > > definition? > > > > > > > > > >If we agree upon a definition, how do we know if the birth > time > > > > >recorded (for a given case) is as per this definition? In > fact > > I > > > have > > > > >a basic question to TW/Ron: what is the guarantee that these > AA- > > > rated > > > > >charts fulfill " any " birth time criteria? > > > > > > > > > >Just out of curiosity: What if I had applied RP theory for > BRT > > in > > > all > > > > >the 300 cases I studied programmatically? The program > actually > > > took a > > > > >few seconds (approx. 5) to run, so while processing all the > > > records > > > > >the RPs would have been the same. Can I conclude that at > least a > > > > >majority of the charts would have passed the RP test? If not, > > > what do > > > > >we conclude about the data as well as about RP-based > > > rectification? > > > > > > > > > >I hope members will not get angry with me! > > > > > > > > > >Regards, > > > > >Rangarajan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 Dear Shri. Lajmi, It appears from your email that you are not in favour of using natal charts for analysis and prediction. My own belief is that ideally natal chart should provide all answers, but horary became widely used since TOB is a difficult problem to solve. What we are trying for the past one week is to search for solutions to the vexatious TOB problem. I consider this research - and one does not get results immediately. Sometimes, this may lead to a dead end. But we must go on. I do not think horary can be used for everything (just as many believe that natal charts can't be used for everything). For example, if I wanted to understand a native's temperaments, etc., can this be read from a horary chart? Since both natal and horary charts have their role to play, it is important to study and research into both. Regards, Rangarajan , Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1> wrote: > Dear tw,Rangarajan et al, > ..... > (Let us,for example concentrate on how to ensure thatr Horary Astrology which does not depend upon TOB., to be made 100% accurate...and such fruitful and practical objectives...) > ..... > > With best wishes, > lyrastro1 > GOOD LUCK ! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Dear tw, I am no votary of Pt.L.D.Madan...also Igot casually interested in Mundane astrology,by a mere accident and as I said earlier,was impressed by his fairly accurate predictions,on a scale,perhaps not achieved by many...atleast after the late B.V.Raman...however,his recent predictions, over the past one year only,have been remarkably accurate... Let us see...how far his latest prediction about the fall of the present UPA Govt., comes out correct or not...I do not have,or even pretend to have,any knowledge of Mundane Astrology...this is a new field for me,hence it aroused my interest...after Mr.B.V.Raman's fantastic accuracy,I've come accross only L.D.Madan's predictions as accurate...let us see...I have a very open mind on the issue... With best wishes, Yours sincerely, lyrastro1 GOOD LUCK !tw853 <tw853 wrote: Dear Lajmi,1. It's just an academic discussion which can't have any practical influence in recording of BOT. Generally it may not be a significant difference for which a crazy for accuracy (in your words) is not required. Because your highly appraised L. D. Madan predicted Rajiv's becoming the PM, downfall and assassination by using a Virgo Asc, i.e. around one hour difference from the commonly used TOB of 8:11 AM (war time) giving Leo Asc. 2. Now he is saying how can be predicted about the fate of present PM Singh, the person without having a horoscope, i.e he used to rely on the birth horoscope which reveals the general path of destiny by way of the disposition of the planets, ie. Prarabdha Karma to become a great man or beggar. For example, it's more clearly shown by Navamsa other than Birth chart that George W. Bush was born to be a great man. The timing of events is indicated by the Dasha and Bhukti periods supported by the transiting planets which are unique to KP or Vedic Astrology.3. Could you kindly give a short list of well known predictions of 100% accuracy of Horary Astrology as "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" (frequently quoted by you) even not a long list (110 cases) like "Some Instances of Dr. B.V. Ramnan's Predictions" compiled by K.N. Rao in Chapter Three: "PROOF OF THE PUDDING", pp 39-89, Astrology and the Hoax of Scientific Temper, Edit. Gayatri Devi Vasudev, 1989.Thanks and regards,tw , Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1> wrote:> Dear tw,Rangarajan et al,> It is a medically accepted fact that the child'd first cry is his first breath...the usual practice for some time now is that the obstetrician holds the child up by his legs and slaps him smartly on his back to make him cry...!> > What if the child does not cry ? ! !> > This could happen in extremely rare instances,or in premature births when the child born is too small and weak to even cry...but then,he will atleast cough to clear his lungs of fluid so that he can breathe...> > I must submit however that Astrology is not about the rarest events...and neither is K.P.,although some of the "old Masters" are known to have described rare events,with their astrological reasons for their occurrences,but only perhaps to illustrate by a "telling example"...or perhaps to draw attention of the masses and the elite towards to the science,and perhaps,even to themselves...! In the name of research,therefore I sugest we do not discuss the rare... > > (Let us,for example concentrate on how to ensure thatr Horary Astrology which does not depend upon TOB., to be made 100% accurate...and such fruitful and practical objectives...)> > One must attend/witness a child-birth,to truly appreciate,and understand what actually takes place...these days such movies are shown in Maternity & Child-welfare clinics...with explanations...> > Hence KSK's definition is scientifically correct...> > With best wishes,> lyrastro1> GOOD LUCK !> > > > However, a child has to necessarily breathe to begin life...and to do so he cries most times,if not,atleast coughs...> > In either case he needs to breathe-in first to let out air to cough...> > > > > tw853 <tw853> wrote:> Dear Rangarajan,> > > "time of first breath" = "time when the head comes out"> > It may be asked the nurses from a maternity ward whether it's the > TOB generally recorded in BC.> > Regards,> > tw> > > , "Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy" > <ranga@m...> wrote:> > Dear Shri.Raichur, TW,> > How can one find when the child took its first breath? Looks > > complicated to me.> > > > Regards,> > Rangarajan> > > > , "tw853" <tw853> wrote:> > > Dear Shri Raichur,> > > > > > That may be the most reasonable TOB.> > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > tw> > > > > > > > > > > > , anant raichur > <anant_1608> > > > wrote:> > > > Dear R G > > > > > > > > In such cases one shuld ascertain, when the child took the 1st > > > Breath. This moment is> > > > > > > > suppossed to be the BIRTH. Just as DEATH is the stooping > > > completely of the Breath, and > > > > > > > > gives rise to the popular saying "one breathed his last breath"> > > > > > > > R G <rg_bharat> wrote:> > > > Sir> > > > We shold not not forget that some childred do no cry at all.> > > > RG> > > > > > > > anant raichur <anant_1608> wrote:> > > > Dear Rongaunt> > > > > > > > You are right. The question of Birth Time is fraught with many > > > problems. The traditional > > > > > > > > method (at least in India), was that time of birth was fixed > > when > > > the first cry was heard > > > > > > > > by the persons outside the Labour Room. It had nothing to do > > with > > > the cutting of the> > > > > > > > umibical chord. > > > > > > > > Phylosophically it is said "THE SOUL ENTERS THE BODY WITH THE > > 1st > > > Breath"> > > > > > > > Since a child cries as soon as it stars breathing, this has > been > > > taken as the time of > > > > > > > > Birth. > > > > > > > > May I suggest "THE Correct Time of Birth is one which will > give > > > correct corelation of the> > > > > > > > events already taken place ". This can then be used for > further > > > predictions. > > > > > > > > I know another method of birth rectification, working the > > Reverse > > > Way, used by some> > > > > > > > western astrologers. Knowing an important event in life, they > > > check the BT, working > > > > > > > > backwards. I will set out that method a little later for > test, > > > after Rangaraj finishes his> > > > > > > > study with the Revised Nadi method, I have outlined.> > > > > > > > good luck> > > > > > > > > > > > "rongaunt@b... au" <rongaunt@b...> wrote:> > > > > > > > Dear Rangarajan,> > > > > > > > The whole question of the correct time of birth is fraught with> > > > problems. Nevertheless, it appears that most Western> > > > astrologers at least, use either the time of the first breath > or> > > > the time of cutting of the umbilical cord. My own thoughts on> > > > this is that it should be the latter, as this is when the child> > > > becomes a person it his/her own right. However this is to all> > > > intent and purposes academic, because in reality we very seldom> > > > hear of how the birth time was taken by the observers. Also in> > > > practice the first breath and cutting of the cord are likely to> > > > be fairly close together. > > > > > > > > There could even be a factor that is generally unknown. Edgar> > > > Cayce 'The Sleeping Prophet' who had proven success in > thousands> > > > of cases (mostly medical diagnosis - without even meeting the> > > > person - or having any knowledge of them), stated that the soul> > > > whilst mostly entering the body at the time of birth, just> > > > occasionally takes posession whilst still in the womb, and> > > > sometimes even many hours after birth. This begets the question> > > > when we are looking at a chart for the first time - are we> > > > looking at the chart of a 'maverick' soul. My own approach> > > > to this is that when I see a chart that does not appear to be> > > > anywhere near consistent with a number of events (particularly> > > > transits to angles of the further planets and Nodes) then I> > > > consider that I might be looking at one of these cases.> > > > > > > > Thank you for your excellent work. I am sure it is appreciated> > > > by all members.> > > > > > > > > > > > Ron Gaunt> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 27 May 2005 13:23:05 -0000, you wrote:> > > > > > > > >Dear Members,> > > > >When working on the recent study on BRT I realised that we > > should> > > > >arrive at the correct definition of birth time. I am sure you > > > would> > > > >have seen definitions such as "the exact time when the child > > first> > > > >cries", "time of first breath", "time of cutting the > umbilical > > > cord",> > > > >"time when the head comes out", etc. What is the "correct" > > > definition? > > > > >> > > > >If we agree upon a definition, how do we know if the birth > time> > > > >recorded (for a given case) is as per this definition? In > fact > > I > > > have> > > > >a basic question to TW/Ron: what is the guarantee that these > AA-> > > rated> > > > >charts fulfill "any" birth time criteria?> > > > >> > > > >Just out of curiosity: What if I had applied RP theory for > BRT > > in > > > all> > > > >the 300 cases I studied programmatically? The program > actually > > > took a> > > > >few seconds (approx. 5) to run, so while processing all the > > > records> > > > >the RPs would have been the same. Can I conclude that at > least a> > > > >majority of the charts would have passed the RP test? If not, > > > what do> > > > >we conclude about the data as well as about RP-based > > > rectification?> > > > >> > > > >I hope members will not get angry with me!> > > > >> > > > >Regards,> > > > >Rangarajan> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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